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#greyjoy meta
ladystoneboobs · 2 months
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theon's thoughts of his existing black wardrobe when considering the watch has been talked of plenty, but let's not ignore the rest of this fantasy which is imo even funnier. bc a) he remembers jon snow joining the nw as a selling point but fails to consider what it would mean to meet jon again after taking wf and supposedly killing bran and rickon and b) he describes it as a life of honor but assumes he can bed wildling women, which watchmen usually see as the most dishonorable kind of sex, not just patronizing the whores south of the wall but sleeping with the enemy. his newly-turned and fleeting ambitions of captaining a ship at eastwatch, rising to first ranger and even lord commander look downright logical and realistic compared with forgetting the celibacy vows and the motive he's just given jon snow--who never really liked him to begin with--to oathbreak by murdering him on sight. (tho, funnily enough he is kinda foreshadowing jon's soon approaching experience of sex with a wildling woman and facing accusations that his black cloak was indeed turned, even after rising to the position of lord commander. biggest difference is jon did not plan and go looking for a wildling lover, was unaware of his own possible princehood, and ygritte likely would not care about jon's royalty except to joke about it if they did know.)
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duchess-of-oldtown · 1 year
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One thing that always gets me, is Quellon Greyjoy. You got this ✨tall✨ scary dude who could have been a big fucking threat but decides to be a reformer. He tries to fix the reputation of the Iron Islands and the Greyjoys. And he dies in the most Ironborn way, in battle at sea, probably thinking at least "I did something to be proud of and the Islands are on the way to a better relationship with Westeros". But then his kids are literally an eldritch horror, a dumb thot, a religious fanatic and one short king and they just undo all of his work in like five mins. You cannot convince me that Quellon was not looking up from the depths of the Drowned God's watery halls like
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raventreehall · 7 months
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no one wants to talk about the theon and littlefinger parallels fine I'LL TALK ABOUT THEM. they're both social inferiors in a foster family that they desperately wanted to join but are prevented from doing so which leads to all sorts of complexes!!!
littlefinger didn't really do anything wrong in seeking out catelyn's hand and dueling brandon, he only misread his importance to the tullys and tried to functionally be part of the family that he had been raised in. but that was not allowed to him because of his low birth, just as theon was always relegated to an outsider role within the stark household because he was a hostage. (also note theon's boyhood dream of marrying sansa and ned accepting him as his son; littlefinger's obsession with catelyn seems to actually have catelyn at its core rather than just being a projection of a desire to be accepted within house tully, but who knows, his obsession with cat could actually be the product of an obsession with house tully and his general ambitions to increase his social status). they both had such intense 'i hate you'/'i want to be you' emotions knocking around in their heads as a result of this that they ended up killing—or trying to convince people that they killed—their foster siblings! (i know there's a lot more complexity with the littlefinger and lysa situation, but i think this parallel is really interesting)
littlefinger also had to work for years in gulltown/king's landing to rise through the ranks, to in a way 'regain his standing' to what it was when he was a ward of hoster tully's. throughout his childhood he was constantly around lysa, catelyn, and edmure—all of whom were destined to become lords and ladies of great houses—and was raised like their brother, but after he is banished he struggles to hold even half the status that his foster siblings enjoy naturally. theon goes through a little bit of a similar rude awakening when he arrives back at pyke expecting his father to hail him as his heir returned only to find out balon could not care less about him and likes asha way more, and he takes winterfell to try to prove to balon and the rest of the ironborn that he should be respected. interestingly, we have seen both theon and littlefinger's homecomings on page and they both come across as complete outsiders in the places were they were born, acting above their station because of the circumstances they got used to during their fostering—while this leads to theon trying to reject the starks and gain acceptance from his birth family in acok, in asos when littlefinger goes home to the fingers he wants to get to the eyrie (and to one of the tullys) as quickly as possible
they share some behaviors/character traits, too. littlefinger is noted to dress well, he pays a lot for clothes made of fine fabrics, while we know that theon likes to do the same. littlefinger certainly does this to prove that he is rich and powerful and has made it, showing that he can pay for the same things that any great lord can, which is probably born from more than a little resentment towards hoster for taking him out of the luxury of riverrun and sending him back home to the fingers. similarly, theon dresses elaborately to set himself apart in winterfell, to impress people, and to make himself known, and again this is born from resentment and insecurity (seen best when he goes back to pyke and stresses about what to wear in front of balon). they're also both arrogant and flippant, with a tendency to smile/make jokes too much, perhaps to try to further resist and disparage the social order they feel restricted by
finally there's catelyn: theon looks to her as a quasi-mother figure while he's in winterfell and littlefinger looks to catelyn as a lover, but both of these are impossible and end up being rejected. there's no evidence that catelyn was, like, especially mean to theon, they seem to get on fine in agot, but he was her husband's hostage and we know that she does mistrust him. this attitude is obviously a result of her not trusting the greyjoys because they're reavers/rose against the crown in open rebellion, but it is also no doubt informed by her previous experiences with petyr! it would make sense for her to be wary of a foster son getting close to her children after what happened to her as a kid
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goodqueenaly · 30 days
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If Robb hadn’t sent Theon as his envoy do you think he would have executed him after Balon invaded the north?
Unfortunately, probably. Robb would have been in something of the same situation he was IOTL in with respect to Rickard Karstark. Just as Robb couldn’t allow Rickard Karstark to freely murder his, Robb’s, prisoners (much less highborn, underage prisoner-hostages), Robb couldn’t allow Theon to remain alive while his father and the Greyjoy bannermen invaded and pillaged his, Robb’s, own lands. The entire point of hostages in Westerosi politico-military analysis is to have the ability execute the hostage if and when the hostage’s family violates the agreement under which the hostage was taken. If he refused to execute Theon, Robb would be sending the message to his vassals that he valued the life of his enemy’s son over the welfare of his people - a terrible image for any feudal king, much less one so new in his kingship.
To be clear, I don’t want to suggest that this execution wouldn’t have weighed very heavily on Robb - as indeed we see with him after the Rickard Karstark execution, and as I think a similar situation would have on Ned. However, just as Robb found himself able to execute Lord Rickard despite his fury at “hav[ing] to to kill my dead friends' father” and his own loyal bannerman for the sake of his enemies, I think Robb would have executed Theon despite the disgust he likely would have felt at such a scenario.
Now of course, practically speaking executing or not executing Theon would never have mattered for stopping Balon’s hand. As we see very clearly early in ACOK, Balon Greyjoy was already planning his attack on the North well before Theon took the first step back onto the shores of the Iron Islands, and had already written Theon off for dead.
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vivacissimx · 23 days
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Theon's choice not to visit Alannys was not a choice
Cannot believe it took this long for me to get around to this meta—also, feel free to read my whole spiel about Theon's father figures in Ned, Balon, and Roose here, because it does inform my view.
OK, Alannys Harlaw hours.
The conception of Theon's motivations in the situation where he does not go to see his mother when he returns to the Islands is a bit harsh on Theon. It ignores that Theon has not been avoiding Alannys all these years: he has been kept from her. Theon's access to her has always been controlled by the NedBalons in his life.
I want to get into the idea that this is not happenstance. That Theon's father figures control his access to his mother, which is not even a novel concept in ASOIAF. Jon Snow, who is Theon's foil, also has access to his mother restricted by—woah! Ned Stark as well!! (And both Jon and Theon are expected to be grateful for this too.)
Theon's homecoming to Pyke does not result in him rushing triumphant as the prodigal son into his loving mother's arms because in fact Alannys is not even on Pyke (though Theon thought she would be). Nope, it's Theon's suspicious, resentful, and yes "homophobic" uncle as well as father who Theon meets. From here it is just assumed that Theon has perfect access to Alannys, and that him not hopskipping over to Harlaw is purely his preference. (Are you catching on to the idea that I disagree with this, yet?)
Getting into Theon as a character & how he acts under suspicious/mistrustful eyes:
As a boy, he had lived in fear of Stark's stern face and great dark sword. His wife was, if anything, even more distant and suspicious. [ACOK, Theon I]
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“What I am about to tell you must not leave this room,” she told them. “I want your oaths on that. If even part of what I suspect is true, Ned and my girls have ridden into deadly danger, and a word in the wrong ears could mean their lives.” “Lord Eddard is a second father to me,” said Theon Greyjoy. “I do so swear.” [AGOT, Catelyn III]
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Ned turned back to his wife. “Once you are home, send word to Helman Tallhart and Galbart Glover under my seal. They are to raise a hundred bowmen each and fortify Moat Cailin. Two hundred determined archers can hold the Neck against an army. Instruct Lord Manderly that he is to strengthen and repair all his defenses at WhiteHarbor, and see that they are well manned. And from this day on, I want a careful watch kept over Theon Greyjoy. If there is war, we shall have sore need of his father’s fleet.” [AGOT, Eddard IV]
Theon knows he is not trusted in Winterfell. Catelyn including Theon in this circle of ooh secrets is mostly due to the fact that Robb physically brought him & also because she knows that Theon does not really even have the ability to betray her on this front. He definitely knows that. Ned does not have a paternal relationship with Theon & does not perceive himself as Theon's father any more than Theon believes he is Ned's son (in the manner that Robb or Bran or even Jon is), so why does Theon lie here?
HE IS OVERPERFORMING HIS COMMITMENT TO THE PATRIARCH FIGURE IN WHOSE HANDS HIS LIFE/FUTURE LIES.
Theon predicates his vow to Catelyn with an affirmation of his willingness to do service to Ned, and in fact that's what his access to her relies on. That's probably why he makes such a production of incessantly flirting with her too; because of how it implies he is in Ned and later Robb's good graces! Of course AGOT Theon is also just a flirt for the purposes of producing his masculinity in general. But does anyone really disagree? Moving on.
The door was grey wood studded with iron, and Theon found it barred from the inside. He hammered on it with a fist, and cursed when a splinter snagged the fabric of his glove. The wood was damp and moldy, the iron studs rusted. After a moment the door was opened from within by a guard in a black iron breastplate and pothelm. "You are the son?" "Out of my way, or you'll learn who I am." [ACOK, Theon I]
(Even the damn door is in on it LOL)
Theon knelt. He had a purpose here, and might need Aeron's help to achieve it. A crown was worth a little mud and horseshit on his breeches, he supposed.
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He was playing the part of a dutiful young prince for the moment, while he waited for Lord Balon to reveal the fullness of his plans. [ACOK, Theon II]
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"My father gave me the command here, Uncle." "And sent me to counsel you." And to watch me. Theon dare not push matters too far with his uncle. The command was his, yes, but his men had a faith in the Drowned God that they did not have in him, and they were terrified of Aeron Damphair. [ACOK, Theon III]
THEON IS PERFORMING FOR BALON. His father doesn't approve of him and Theon is playing the part. He is making every overture and concession to obedience, or piety, that is asked of him. Balon, Aeron, Asha, even Victarion make sure he knows when he's failing—whether it's with an express disapproval or just a knowing laugh. Theon notes all of this because due to how he was raised he's extremely perceptive of how those with power over him regard him.
And Balon does not criticize Theon for not visiting Alannys.
"Will I find my sister and my lady mother at Pyke?" "You will not. [ACOK, Theon I]
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Harlaw is only a day’s sail, and surely Lady Greyjoy yearns for a last sight of her son.” “Would that I could. I am kept too busy here. My father relies on me, now that I am returned. Come peace, perhaps...” [ACOK, Theon II]
Theon visiting his mother is not reliant on his own self-motivation, but on whether or not Balon grants him access to her. This is not to say Balon expressly forbade it or that there would have been any direct consequences if Theon had gone over... but it's about goodwill, not permission! What else changes between Theon asking about Alannys when he returns to Pyke and when he explicitly tells Asha that he can't go see her because Balon, because war? Simple: he needs to prove himself to his father as loyal and strong first. To make it explicit, Ned & Robb allowed Theon access to Catelyn in the same manner that Balon refuses (or, at the least, disapproves of) Theon's access to Alannys. Theon is sensitive to this disapproval and does not push the matter.
The only person who pushes Theon to go to Alannys is Asha. Asha obviously has Balon's trust, though, and it could be said she takes it for granted. Asha's level of understanding of Theon is complex; she recognizes him but she doesn't know him. When she says this:
You are blood of my blood, Theon, whatever else you may be. For the sake of the mother who bore us both, return to Deepwood Motte with me. [ACOK, Theon V]
it's actually wild how much is packed in here. For the sake of the mother who bore us both: Theon doesn't yet have the right to Alannys or even know how she'd receive him, given his other receptions on Pyke. Return to Deepwood Motte: the castle Theon believes he should have been tasked with taking above Asha, a concrete proof of his father's mistrust in him, which amongst other reasons spurs on his taking on Winterfell to begin with.
Personally I think Theon as a symbol of Balon's failed rebellion does make him, in Balon's eyes, also a symbol of his failed marriage. Theon does not confirm Baelon's masculinity as a son should, as Asha does. He is a reminder of the ways in which Balon lacks.
I also believe that Theon ~misses his mother, FWIW. He thinks back to his childhood sleeping in the Sea Tower while on his way to Pyke which is a mommy-coded memory; he expects to sleep in his old chambers again when he returns to Pyke—both that and his expectation of seeing Alannys are swiftly disabused. He will not be slipping into his old roles, Theon learns through the reunion with Balon which is violent in more ways than one. It's interesting because Theon actually expects to have to prove himself to his father (which is why he comes armed with a plan for taking Casterly Rock) but he doesn't expect to be punished for having been held hostage all these years.
If we are indulging in symbolism, though:
Above the Sea Tower snapped his father's banner. The Myraham was too far off for Theon to see more than the cloth itself, but he knew the device it bore: the golden kraken of House Greyjoy, arms writhing and reaching against a black field. The banner streamed from an iron mast, shivering and twisting as the wind gusted, like a bird struggling to take flight. And here at least the direwolf of Stark did not fly above, casting its shadow down upon the Greyjoy kraken. [ACOK, Theon I]
The Sea Tower where Theon's childhood memories & hopes for return to his family lie is dominated by his father's banner. At least it's Balon Greyjoy and not Ned Stark, Theon tells himself. Yet the result is the paralleled, mirrored, as Balon and Ned often are with Theon: under Ned's control Theon can't see Alannys because he is Balon Greyjoy's son, while under Balon's control Theon is discouraged from seeing Alannys because he isn't son enough. Perhaps Theon does prioritize the goodwill of his patriarch because he views it as an essential ingredient to his survival and success... but he's also absolutely aware of the role the wife/mother/lady/queen plays in the whole arena too. As power, as leverage. It's pretty plain when you consider that he tells Barbrey she could claim leadership over the North if she so desired. He took such pleasure in being relatively intimate with Catelyn as well.
So, he knows. Yet they're still all held above his head like a little treat. Delicious.
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devilinthebox · 3 months
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"At Robb's side. Where he belonged." - About Theon and Grey Wind.
Or : RobbTheon thoughts that make me lose sleep #1 (there will be more)
In Dance, an extended metaphor ties Theon to dogs – specifically, Ramsay’s female dogs. It has been discussed some in many posts since the book's publication (we're all very old).
“A dog who turns against his master is fit for naught but skinning.” It’s stated plainly. To the Northern Lords, to all the nobility, to all the people who know of his fate, Theon is reduced to being one of Ramsay’s dogs. He is collared and chained in the kennels with the dogs Ramsay named after his female victims. Theon even comes to think that of himself: “lower than a dog”.
“Reek,” he said. “Your Reek.” “Do this little thing for me, and you can be my dog and eat meat every day,” Lord Ramsay promised. “You will be tempted and betray me. To run or fight or join our foes. No, quiet, I’ll not hear you deny it. Lie to me, and I’ll take your tongue. A man would turn against me (…) but we know what you are, don’t we?”
It is the paroxysm of the humiliation he suffers from the moment he has been taken from his home (although his brothers’ treatment of him could indicate he had been humiliated even before that) to his capture and subsequent torture and sexual abuse by Ramsay (for details read this as I wouldn’t have the courage and talent to write it – it’s remarkable). As Theon uses the Reek persona to avoid Ramsay’s wrath, as he becomes – by force – complicit in Ramsay’s crimes and subservient to the point of losing his sense of self, it makes sense to compare him to a dog who has been taught by his master not to bite and to serve him.
Yet, we know for a fact that it doesn’t last. We know that ultimately, by virtue of being in Winterfell, Theon finds himself again piece by piece, enough to save an innocent girl with no hope of survival. He was never truly Ramsay’s dog. That said, the comparison struck me as being reminiscent of Theon’s thematic tie to another wild animal: Grey Wind.
Dogs and Direwolves share common features, of course. And there can be a confusion between the two. Guess what, Robb himself, the Wolf King, is compared to a dog in Dance, to demean him.
“The Young Wolf? He was a vile dog and died like one.” (…) “A dog, aye. He brought us only grief and death. A vile dog indeed. Say on.”
Theon even draws the comparison himself between Grey Wind and Asha’s Black Wind – linking in his mind Stark and Greyjoy. Yes. It makes sense somewhat, since Theon is on his way to persuade his father to ally himself with the King in the North. He has his reasons to look for a link between Stark and Greyjoy.
“Theon did not need to be told that Black Wind was Asha’s longship (…) Odd that she would call it that, when Robb Stark had a wolf named Grey Wind. “Stark is grey and Greyjoy’s black,” he murmured, smiling, “but it seems we’re both windy.”
Strange as it may be, Theon shares common attitudes with Grey Wind during the beginning of the war (in Game, essentially).
One thing that always stood out to me is how demonstrative Theon is in his devotion to Robb’s cause (Theon Greyjoy put a hand on the hilt of his blade and said, “My lady, if it comes to that, my House owes yours a great debt.” -> What the hell? You’re a hostage?)
We know after reading Theon’s POV that it was indeed genuine, as it stemmed from a true desire to be part of House Stark. More than that, Theon, who needs to belong and feel useful more than anything else, took pride in fighting for Robb, to be at his side. Bran is jealous of both, because they get to fight at Robb’s side and be close to him (“I’d sooner be a wolf (…) I’d fight beside him like Grey Wind” // “Robb the Lord seemed to have more time for Hallis Mollen and Theon Greyjoy …”).
As he talks about his role in Robb’s war to his Ironborn family, he only ever mentions his friend, his ideals, their plan for the independence of the North and the Islands. Theon never fought for the Northern cause (why would he?), he fought for Robb, and proudly so. And he was adamant to demonstrate it in an aggressive way, almost like Grey Wind growling.
“Kneel before the king, Lannister! Theon Greyjoy shouted.”
“The wolves do not like your smell, Lannister,” Theon Greyjoy commented.”
“Kill him, Robb,” Theon Greyjoy urged. “Take his head off.”
“Lord Frey would be a fool to try and bar our way, Theon Greyjoy said with his customary easy confidence. ‘We have five times his numbers. You can take the Twins if you need to, Robb.”
Not to forget his eagerness to please, his way to show his devotion: “Ser Brynden has seen to it already, my lady,’ Theon replied with a cocky smile. ‘A few more blackbirds, and we should have enough to bake a pied. I’ll save you their feathers for a hat.” (Like a cat offering you dead birds as a gift…).
Also, Theon shared a true friendship and complicity with Robb. After Eddard is murdered in King’s Landing, Catelyn searches for Robb and finds he had been with Theon, probably to find comfort and support. He is, aside from Catelyn, his most trusted confidante.
“Robb glanced from her to Greyjoy, searching for an answer and finding none.”
We know Theon spoke of his uncle Euron with Robb, which doesn’t strike me as something he would confide to anyone else (Theon doesn’t seem to speak much of himself, all things considered, as he tries to keep a cool and detached façade). They also had “secrets” and laughed together (most notably at Roose Bolton’s expanse – karma is a bitch).
Robb sends Theon to treat with Balon Greyjoy’s against his beloved mother’s advice because he trusts him (and, in my humble opinion, wanted to show Theon he trusted him, that he was more than a hostage): “Theon’s fought bravely for us. I told you how he saved Bran from those wildlings in the wolfswood (…) he’s been a hostage half his life.’”
There is a childishness to them both. They are prone to boyish mockery. Robb acts the same, at the start of the war, with his direwolf. He seems amused to see Grey Wind scare people at first. That’s before Theon’s betrayal (I’ll get to this). And this behavior is that of Robb the boy, the 16-year-old boy, not Robb the King, who will be at odds with his direwolf and his best friend soon enough. He is most himself with Grey Wind, with Theon.
“You did well,” she told her son in the gallery that led from the rear of the hall, “though that business with the wolf was japery more befitting a boy than a king.”
Robb scratched Grey Wind behind the ear. “Did you see the look on his face, Mother?” he asked, smiling.”
“What I saw was Lord Karstark, walking out.”
“As did I.” Robb lifted off his crown with both hands and gave it to Olyvar. “Take this thing back to my bedchamber.”
Theon is tied to Robb as a person, as is his direwolf.
Before he has his own POV chapters, Theon’s appearances, like Grey Wind’s, are exclusively tied to Robb’s. In Game, they both barely exist outside of Robb’s sight which does not diminish their strong, memorable, somewhat troubling presence.
“They passed beneath the gatehouse, over the drawbridge (…) Summer and Grey Wind came loping beside them, sniffing at the wind. Close behind came Theon Greyjoy, with his longbow and a quiver of broadheads; he had a mind to take a deer, he had told them.”
“’(…) I would speak with my son alone. I know you will all forgive me, my lords.’ She gave them no choice (…) the bannermen bowed and took their leave. ‘And you, Theon’, she added when Greyjoy lingered. He smiled and left them.”
“Robb sat in the bow with Grey Wind, his hand resting on his direwolf’s head as the rowers pulled at their oars. Theon Greyjoy was with him.”
Grey Wind served in Robb’s war. He killed and would have died for him. Just as Theon did and felt such pride about, as we’ve seen. They are both considered outsiders, in a way: Grey Wind doesn’t belong a civilized world, he is regarded as a monster, a savage beast.
Theon is described in similar terms by the people of the North, as he is Ironborn. He must be “gentled”, a term you’d use for a wild animal (“Your father did what he did to gentle Theon, but I fear it was too little too late.”). His own father treats him as he were a tamed, obedient, animal (“The Stark have made your theirs”). Theon is prone to violence as a recourse (“A dead enemy is a thing of beauty”), has a wild, impulsive streak. Catelyn qualifies him as “impetuous” in her POV.
In Game, he is second after the direwolves to rescue Bran (and Robb himself!) from the wildings who threatens his life. As a terrified and emotional Robb fails to show him gratitude for his intervention (I wrote an entire piece about this scene if you’re interested), Theon feels as humiliated as his loyalty is not recognized by someone exterior could believe is his “master”. We know better, we know Robb and Theon were friends. That said, from an external point of view, Theon might have looked like a prisoner eager to please his jailer. Tyrion Lannister in the show-verse put it like this: “Your loyalty to your captors is touching.”  (And I insist, during their conversation, Theon says: “Robb is not my master.” It’s true! Yet, in the end, if everyone around him believed so, he may have started to doubt the sincerity of their bond, hence the desire to make a destiny for himself, far from Robb.)
At times, he seems as impulsive and ravenous as Grey Wind: “” Blood for blood”. For one, Greyjoy did not smile. His lean, dark face had a hungry look to it.”
“Theon Greyjoy sauntered closer. ‘Give her to the wolves’, he urged Robb.”
He can be ruthless – even cruel (I’m thinking of Beth Cassel) - in his pursuit of recognition from his “masters” (in this case, for his desperate quest for his father’s approval): “Once he had saved Bran’s life with an arrow. He hoped he would not need to take it with another, but if it came to that, he would.”)
In the same vein, Grey Wind is a formidable beast, and loyal, yet he is feared by all and loved only by Robb.
“Yet it was not the sword that made Ser Cleos Frey anxious; it was the beast.”
Contrast and compare with all those instances Theon made Catelyn or Bran uneasy with his rehearsed smile in Game; to his arc in Clash where Theon uses terror as a mean to an end, wanting love and respect and only inspiring contempt or fear (see: his last ACOK chapter, plenty of instances); to the unease he triggers as he has been turned to Ramsay’s thing in Dance.
Both belonged at Robb’s side. Theon realizes in Dance that he never should have left Robb’s side, as it was the closest to a home and true purpose he ever had in his life. As for Grey Wind, he is so important to Robb, such a part of his identity, that separating the two results in Robb’s demise. The Freys must cage Grey Wind to kill Robb.
Just as, indirectly, freeing Theon and creating a physical (and emotional) separation between them led to Robb’s death just as Grey Wind’s absence did.
“(…) And Grey Wind was at the king’s side once more. Where he belongs.”
“The wolf. The wolf is not here. Where is Grey Wind? She knew the direwolf had returned with Robb (…) he was not in the hall, not at her son’s side where he belonged.”
“Where was I? I should have been with him. I should have died with him.” The way it’s expressed reads as if Theon’s fate had been broken. As if the natural path would have been for Theon to be with Robb. If you want to see it, there is a mystical element to these bonds. Breaking them condemns Robb. Grey Wind, as all the direwolves, has magic (is magic?). Whereas Theon’s arc ties him the Gods – he has prophetic dreams, hears Bran through the Weirwood Tree in Dance, says with confidence “The gods are not done with me” and his very name derives from the Greek word for “Gods”.
After Theon’s departure and subsequent betrayal of Robb’s trust, Grey Wind is depicted as more agitated, unwilling to obey Robb’s orders. It can be explained by Robb’s torment (he becomes “somber”, depressed even, which is the trigger that leads him to Jeyne) and his growing distrust of his direwolf, who failed to warn him of Theon’s betrayal. And for a reason: Theon did not plan his change of heart; he was sincere in his devotion. Grey Wind must have sensed this, thus never expressed distrust towards Theon. The direwolves aren’t pets. They’re part of the Stark children. Robb is admonishing himself for having trusted Theon so deeply he failed to see his flaws (ambition, inconstancy, a deep-seated need to belong). It’s himself he starts to distrust.
The topic of Theon’s betrayal (which is best embodied by his supposed murder of Bran and Rickon) triggers Robb’s guilt and anger. Grey Wind becomes particularly aggressive.
“Jon would never harm a son of mine.” “No more than Theon Greyjoy would harm Bran or Rickon?”Grey Wind leapt up atop King Tristifer’s crypt, his teeth bared. Robb’s own face was cold.
As Robb becomes more irritated and has to control his temper, even with Jeyne. Here:
(I cannot help but notice the analogy between Grey Wind an “an arrow loosed from a longbow” here. Probably a coincidence – still!)
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His relationship with his direwolf is strained just as his relationship with his closest friend and advisor. Robb seems suddenly ill at ease with Grey Wind’s savagery although it has served him many times in battle. He did not seem to mind before. Just as he tolerated – even appreciated maybe – Theon’s somber side.
“As they started up the steps, Catelyn asked (…) ‘Robb, here is Grey Wind?’
“In the yard, with a haunch of mutton. I told the kennelmaster to see that he was fed.” (// I’m sorry but I can’t help but be reminded of Ramsay chaining Theon in the kennels and promising him food as a reward for his good behavior – as a twisted parallel).
“You always kept him with you before.”
“A hall is no place for a wolf. He gets restless, you’ve seen. Growling and snapping. I should never have taken him into battle with me (…) Jeyne’s anxious around him and he terrifies her mother.”
And there’s the heart of it, Catelyn thought. “He is part of you, Robb. To fear him is to fear you.”
“I am not a wolf, no matter what they call me.” Robb sounded cross. “Grey Wind killed a man at the Crag (…) If you had seen –“
Theon, in Clash, is haunted by the direwolves. He has dreams where Robb and the wolves come for him. He also demonstrates his intimate understanding of the direwolves, acquired at Robb’s and Grey Wind’s side as he realizes Bran and Rickon have escaped from Winterfell. Their direwolves kill some Ironborn guards in the process: Theon immediately understands how. He even mimics it, in a way:
“Urzen said : ‘If he had sounded his horn –“ I am served by fools. ‘Try and imagine it was you up there (…) it’s dark and cold. You have been walking sentry for hours (…) Then you hear a noise and move toward the gate, and suddenly you see eyes at the top of the sair, glowing green and gold in the torchlight. Two shadows come rushing toward you faster than you can believe. You catch a glimpse of teeth, start to level your spear, and they slam into you and open your belly (…) And now you’re down on your back, your guts are spilling out (…) Theon grabbed the scrawny man’s throat, tightened his fingers, and smiled. ‘Tell me, at what moment during all of this do you stop to blow your fucking horn?’ He shoved Urzen away roughly, sending him stumbling back against a merlon.”
(Underrated piece of ACOK!Theon in his glorious unstable self if you ask me.)
Theon and Grey Wind are both ultimately rejected by Robb, who feels he has no choice (not that it wasn’t deserved in Theon’s case, mind you). Yet, by doing so, Robb abandons a part of him. The most emotional part. Robb is deeply sensitive (it shows in many instances, as with his mother in Game: “Mother I need you too. I’m trying but I can’t do it all by myself’ His voice broke with sudden emotion” or “He looked at her, his eyes shining, the proud young lord melted away in an instant (…)”) and could act like it with his most trusted companions.
Theon has a special bond with Robb. His betrayal is personal, and it is seen that way by the Robb’s bannermen. How fitting is Benfred Tallheart’s threat, in this regard:
“Theon wiped the spittle off his cheek with the back of his hand. “Robb will gut you, Greyjoy (…) He’ll feed your turncloak’s heart to his wolf (…)”
Of course, it has to be Grey Wind. And it has to be his heart.
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angelwingtrap · 3 days
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Being a Theon enjoyer doesn’t mean I don’t see him as a cruel idiot who committed grievous crimes and turned a blind eye to Ironborn traditions he felt (knew!) were wrong. He gave into disgusting, depraved impulses when he was finally a free man and had power over others.
Not that I want to, but as a reader there’s no point in trying to justify his crimes because Theon himself is disgusted and shocked with what he’s done. Even during the acts he’s screaming internally that it’s wrong. But he is selfish and arrogant and insecure so he doesn’t stop. There’s no undoing his horrific crime spree. It doesn’t matter if he regrets it in TWOW, he regretted things in the moment. He had nightmares about the things he’d done while still prince of Winterfell.
The Theon we knew in AGOT-ACOK needed to die because ending the cycle of violence/abuse is a theme with Asha and Theon.
I don’t think you’re supposed to view Theon as you’d view a real life person. He’s a very malleable character who can represent all kinds of abstract ideas, not a character so real they could jump off the page any moment. He can be killed and brought back to life. Real people can’t do that obv. Theon is a concept more than he’s a person.
It’s so easy to find connections to him in media, he’s so easy to imagine in different situations, to relate to, to love and to hate. Makes him a GREAT character for fan works and meta.
…That’s my interpretation anyways sorry if it’s corny lmao
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ladyluscinia · 4 months
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Oh and since I am already rambling about Izzy's leg and "redemption arcs" tonight - I don't think I commented on this before because no one I'd been talking to about the season has this mindset, but I just want to acknowledge for the record that the idea Izzy went through a successful "redemption arc" is lowkey ridiculous?
Like *I* do not have issues with it because I don't think he did anything he really needed to be redeemed from with the crew. He was mostly an antagonist due to situational reasons and the situation changed, ergo now he's their friend. Minimal characterization-based hurdles involved. The only place he needed to actually talk through some healing and accountability was with Edward, and that's complicated by a) how I am actually criticizing that as unsatisfying, and b) the story tipped the balance of "harms that need to be addressed" so heavily toward Edward that it feels mostly pointless to bring up Izzy anyway. Broadly? Izzy's cool, and he bonded with the crew.
But for people who actually still think Izzy left S1 needing to be held accountable for crimes or overcome some internalized biases he had...? Um. That didn't actually happen on-screen. My guy pretty much got tortured a whole bunch and then given some community support. He's expressing pretty much the same values in 2x01 as he is in 2x06, minus maybe some self-worth (provided by the community support). If you think this a departure from his 1x10 characterization, then all the "redemption arc" growth happened between seasons in a timeskip and as a direct result of being tortured?
Which sounds the opposite of satisfying?
I mean, again, I think the only important realization he makes between 1x10 and 2x01 is "Kraken Era = Bad" and maybe reluctantly accepting "shit Bonnet wasn't just a fling", neither of which is groundbreaking enough he needs to have them on screen, and that his S2 arc is about breaking up with Edward / that self-worth which we do see. But if I thought it was a redemption arc about growth from S1 I would have notes.
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rainbow-femme · 11 months
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What I love about Theon’s story in A Clash of Kings is he so clearly just wants one person, one person, to say “Hey Theon you’re right, what happened to you was fucked up and I’m sorry.”
People holding him as a child hostage treated him like shit because he was a Greyjoy, people on the Iron Islands treating him like shit for living with the Starks during his time as a hostage.
When he’s holding ser Rodrick’s granddaughter hostage and he gives his little speech about how what Rodrick and the Starks did to him is no different he’s just screaming “Say it, say it’s the same, say it wasn’t fair, say that what you did was wrong just once.”
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drakaripykiros130ac · 5 months
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Gotta love being Team Black 🖤
Not only do they have just cause and great anti-heroes to root for, they also have the coolest allies:
Cregan Stark
Jeyne Arryn
Kermit Tully
Benjicot Blackwood (Bloody Ben)
Roderick Dustin (Roddy the Ruin): “We have come to die for the dragon queen!”
Alysanne Blackwood (Black Aly)
I am even excited to see that bloodthirsty maniac, Dalton Greyjoy, wreak havoc on Lannisport (with how much I despise the Lannisters, I ain’t even sorry. Go Red Kraken! ✊).
Could you repeat what you said, Otto? It was something about how the Realm would not accept Rhaenyra ? To which Realm were you referring to, pray tell? Certainly not the one which holds 53 Houses loyal to a woman.
Stale oaths? Just because the Hightowers and the Lannisters have a reputation of being opportunists and oath-breakers, doesn’t mean other houses are the same.
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undeniablespice · 7 months
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drowned god the weak little beast you put on this earth to write fanfiction and like greyjoys has been neglecting homework in order to reread the affc ironborn chapters and have way too many opinions about the soggiest man in the world. i have Had Some Thoughts on aeron, theon, and names
it really is striking to me just how little people refer to aeron by his name. not just in conversation, but in the narrative itself, with the most notable example of this being aeron himself in his pov chapters constantly thinking of himself not as aeron but as damphair or just The Priest. he refers to himself as damphair or The Priest instead of aeron like twenty times throughout the prophet, to the point where it's used almost as frequently as his actual name. in the drowned man it's only like eight times (which i think is mostly because the vast majority of this chapter is given over to the kingsmoot, where aeron is mostly a spectator and the narrative focus is on the events taking place rather than his reaction to them). in the forsaken, it's ten times, though while aeron is actively imprisoned he mostly thinks of himself as aeron, with damphair being used four times in flashbacks to events that took place in the past, once during a conversation with euron while aeron is defying him, and then three times after he is freed and he can see the sea again
the consistency and frequency of aeron in his own mind thinking of himself as something other than his name reads to me almost like a foil to theon and reek. the identity of the damphair allows aeron to dissociate himself from the burden of his past weaknesses and sins: his pre-drowning frivolity and alcoholism and euron's sexual abuse. for aeron, being damphair is as empowering as being reek is degrading for theon. he is constantly affirming to himself that he is a loyal servant of the drowned god and that this makes him strong. it gives him status and purpose he never had as aeron the boy, who was the youngest and weakest of his brothers. aeron-the-priest cannot be frightened by any mortal man any more than he can be frightened by the dark or by memories. kill the boy to become the man -> drown the boy to become the damphair
(although, of course, when aeron tells himself all this about how god chose him and it makes him strong and special and immune to fear, he is deluding himself. the damphair is haunted incessantly by his brothers. aeron has the tendency to reconcile his lasting fear of euron with his special god-given immunity to such mortal flaws as feeling fear by believing that euron is ungodly/an avatar of the storm god/literally the devil, and therefore not really a mortal man in the same way that balon and victarion are
which is a really interesting parallel to how euron must see himself, what with the whole apotheosis god-king thing he's got going on by twow. in a way, euron is aeron's real god. it is euron's abuse that first connected aeron with faith, and it is faith that aeron uses to cope with and overcome the lasting psychological scars of that abuse and urri's death. aeron doesn't think of euron as a mere flesh and blood human being anymore. he's mythologized the crow's eye in his own mind: euron is not just his abuser, he's a boogeyman, a devil, quite literally the thing that goes bump in the night. and euron knows this, and delights in knowing it and in taking every chance he can to tear down aeron's faith and replace the drowned god with himself as the backbone of aeron's life. which he does not actually succeed in doing, as of the forsaken! aeron keeps his faith like theon keeps his name. it cannot be taken from them)
reek, meanwhile, is not an identity that theon chooses to assume to cope with his trauma. it is forced upon him in the middle of the trauma and he has no choice but to accept it for his own self-preservation. ramsay devastates theon physically: flaying him, starving him, beating him, removing his fingers and toes and teeth and genitals. imprisonment and violence are the tools he uses to take away theon's physical strength to resist him, but reek is how he gets to all the parts of theon that can't be bruised or cut. it's the psychological equivalent of a flaying knife. reek is the weapon he uses to attack theon's identity and sense of self and personhood. though it's important to me to note that those were things theon was already struggling with well before ramsay came on the scene, and that he has an absolutely unbelievably strong will that allows him to retain a degree of his original personality under ramsay and regain his own name later in adwd even after enduring all the torture and abuse. he is a greyjoy of pyke. his name is theon, and if he dies, he will die as theon, not as reek. when he leans into being reek, it is as a means of self-preservation and protection from harm. he basically says as much to jeyne when he tells her to be arya: he believes that serving ramsay and capitulating to his whim is the best way to stay safe. you have to know your name.
ultimately, theon is as relieved to be rid of the name reek as aeron is relieved to see the ocean again at the end of the forsaken. theon's name is a source of pride to him, something that he clings to after he has lost everything else, something that will always be his even after all that has been taken away from him. aeron's name is a source of shame, something that he is reduced to when he feels weak, something that he reverts to when he is powerless at the mercy of his abuser
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ladystoneboobs · 2 months
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[Bran, to Theon:]“But you’re Father’s ward.” [Theon, to Bran:]“And now you and your brother are my wards. [...] You’ll tell them how you’ve yielded Winterfell to me, and command them to serve and obey their new lord as they did the old.” -Bran VI, aCoK “He[Ramsay] is a great hunter,” said Wyman Manderly, “and women are his favorite prey. He strips them naked and sets them loose in the woods. They have a half day’s start before he sets out after them with hounds and horns. From time to time some wench escapes and lives to tell the tale. Most are less fortunate. When Ramsay catches them he rapes them, flays them, feeds their corpses to his dogs, and brings their skins back to the Dreadfort as trophies. If they have given him good sport, he slits their throats before he skins them. Elsewise, t’other way around.” -Davos IV, aDwD [Roose, to Theon, about Ramsay's mother:]"[...]I was hunting a fox along the Weeping Water when I chanced upon a mill and saw a young woman washing clothes in the stream. The old miller had gotten himself a new young wife, a girl not half his age. She was a tall, willowy creature, very healthy-looking. Long legs and small firm breasts, like two ripe plums. Pretty, in a common sort of way. The moment that I set eyes on her I wanted her. Such was my due. [...] This miller’s marriage had been performed without my leave or knowledge. The man had cheated me. So I had him hanged, and claimed my rights beneath the tree where he was swaying. If truth be told, the wench was hardly worth the rope. The fox escaped as well, and on our way back to the Dreadfort my favorite courser came up lame, so all in all it was a dismal day." -Reek(/Theon) III, aDwD
something something the way theon tries to rectify his childhood trauma by taking his captor's place as lord of wf and taking ned's younger sons as his "wards"/hostages, while ramsay repeatedly reenacts different versions of his own conception by hunting and raping peasant women. except theon fails in his role reversal when (unlike him in his own captivity at wf) bran and rickon escape custody. and ramsay enhances roose's "dismal day" by killing all the women he catches to prevent any more bolton bastards and further punishing those of them who fail to give him "good sport" (which his mother apparently did not give roose) while those who do satisfy him are "honored" with a quick death (and a canine namesake). and then the consequences of theon's failure to replace his captor/cold noerthern father figure include losing wf to house bolton and becoming the new "reek"/another of ramsay's dogs. (meaning he made himself ramsay's prey but gave him "good sport" in the experience)
ramsay starts out as deceptive dark trickster figure/evil adviser/devil on theon's shoulder in clash but he's also a dark mirror of theon, and a more successful one at that, not just better suited to villainy but more able to get away with his crimes. neither will ever be truly accepted by their fathers but ramsay is made heir once he's the only son while theon is rejected as such despite his better birth. ramsay profits from the alleged kinslaying of his actual brother by blood, while theon is more openly condemned (and seen as still not punished enough) for (falsely) killing stark boys who were never his actual kin. it's almost as if ramsay is an evil force who came into being to find theon and was drawn to him upon his return to the north. we first learn of the bastard of bolton's existence after theon returns to pyke and learns of his father's invasion plans, then his last hunt with the original reek just shortly precedes the ironborn attacks, all so that he's captured and waiting in wf right in time for theon's real plan to go into action, and we don't actually meet (disguised) ramsay in-person through dialogue with rodrik cassell or any other northerner but only when theon arrives as the new lord to free him from the dungeon. as the first reek may have corrupted ramsay, ramsay-as-reek corrupts theon. reek belongs to ramsay and ramsay belongs to reek.
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duchess-of-oldtown · 1 year
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I think the one problem I have with ASOIAF is the way GRRM sometimes ignores the fact siblings grew up together and those early years in comparison to their relationships now. You can't tell me that Stannis didn't read stories to Renly or Robert didn't give both his little brothers piggybacks. You can't tell me that Asha didn't hold onto Theon for dear life during the Sack of Pyke and tell him everything was going to be alright. You can't tell me that Jaime and Tyrion never pulled pranks on Cersei. You can't tell me that Arya never slipped Sansa food after she raided the kitchen at midnight nor that Sansa never told Arya when she and Jeyne had a falling out. Don't get me wrong, GRRM does complicated relationships very well but he's missing that air of tragedy - of what it once was and why it can't be like that again.
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fuckalicent · 4 months
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theon in relation to judith butler’s theory of gender performativity is so special to me. he strives to perform in a way that is overly masculine as a way to compensate for all the time spent away from his father under the care of another man — we see this when he arrives in the iron islands and meets balon for the first time in years. however the way he’s been conditioned to view gender performance as a male in the north is much different to the way gender performance tends to be in the iron islands. we have central themes such as chivalry and honour in contrast to raping and pillaging, aka ‘the ironborn way’, and theon is actually shamed and ridiculed for not conforming to the ironborn perception of gender/masculinity. performance as a man for him has come to mean wealth and excess, when in his homeland it means the opposite. this actually forms a very compelling conflict when asha/yara is brought into the picture. her gender performance is very much that of a male in the north (at least in theon’s eyes), yet her behaviour is not seen as so foreign to the other iron islanders. theon is thrust suddenly into an environment where gender performance is flipped on its head and everything he has come to believe and observe is being disproved before his very eyes — which we see follows him through his entire storyline, particularly once he returns to winterfell with newfound ‘authority’.
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musical-chick-13 · 1 year
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I think people who pick one character from AsoIaF/GoT to be The Protagonist are missing the point, because pretty much all of the characters think THEY are The Protagonist™ and that’s ultimately what screws them over.
(I also want to preface this by saying that that’s the reason I find these characters so interesting, and that this is not meant to insult any of them. I LOVE this story, and this is one of the many reasons why.)
Cersei thinks she’s the Villain Protagonist™ of a gritty drama. Even if it doesn’t make sense for things to work out for her, she assumes they will, seeing everyone around her as faceless idiots serving her narrative. Anyone and everyone will betray her because that’s what always happens in stories like this, so she won’t give them a chance to ever get there. People will move the way she assumes they will; everyone is predictable and stupid and shallow and cowardly. And as such, no one possesses the necessary skills to take her down. If she’s more ruthless and ambitious and paranoid than everyone else, she’ll get what she wants. But that’s not how life actually works, so all she does is alienate those around her, even necessary allies. People aren’t always predictable, not all of them are compliant or subservient or easily-frightened or incompetent. And if you prioritize ruthlessness and distrust, the people who aren’t those things aren’t going to see any reason to keep you around or give you aid.
Jaime thinks he’s a Cynical Misunderstood Antihero. He doesn’t need to work on bettering himself or de-internalizing his violent impulses, because he’s not the problem, it’s society, it’s people’s incorrect assessment of him. Look, he made a friend in Brienne, that must mean he’s not all bad, right? He thinks this story ends in a Public Image Rehabilitation, but he still conflates love with violence, and he still has a fucked up relationship with consent, he’s arrogant to a fault, he still insults Brienne (and just about everyone else) when the opportunity presents itself, and he never bothers trying to change that. And it’s all of this that prevents him from every truly becoming a good person. He’s so mired in this idea of being misunderstood that he doesn’t make a concerted effort to prove that he actually is. People think he’s an oath-breaker, that he has too big of an ego, that he doesn’t care about the people he swore to protect, and he thinks that simply going, “Yeah, but they don’t have the whole picture” is enough in and of itself to prove them wrong because, in a lot of stories, it is. But all his behavior does is cement his reputation as these things.
Dany thinks she’s The Chosen One, which means whatever she does is automatically the right decision. People will accept her rule because it’s hers, she deserves it, it’s morally right. All of her enemies are blanketedly wrong on all accounts in all cases. Her goals supersede anyone else’s because those goals are the way to a Happy Ending, and she doesn’t consider that other people might not see it that way. Many people’s gripes with her stem from gross places like misogyny or wanting to continue keeping slaves, but she forgets to acknowledge that some people’s issues with her might actually be valid. And that The Chosen One is actually a terrifying idea to people outside that person’s immediate personal context. She has three sentient WMDs, essentially. And if she thinks that using them is always morally correct, that the fallout from doing so can’t possibly be a problem because she’s using them and it’s for a noble cause, you end up with what happened in Astapor; and you end up with Drogon killing a child in Mereen and, eventually, her demise at the end of the show.
Sansa starts out thinking she’s an Optimistic Child Hero in a fairytale. This leads to her being held captive at court (she trusted that the authority figures were benevolent), writing a letter to her family that almost comes back to bite her to a deadly degree once her sister finds out in the show (she thought she could solve everything herself via a peaceful resolution), and to her trusting a complete monster of a boy until it’s too late (she thought he was Prince Charming). She thinks that being the Soft, Beautiful Heroine means people will love her and everything will end nicely and neatly, but sometimes instead of “love”, people just take advantage of you. And sometimes their reaction to your beauty isn’t innocent appreciation-sometimes you end up with Littlefinger. (Or Tyrion or The Hound who...let’s just leave it at “they have their own issues,” especially book-wise.) This morphs into assuming that a fairytale-esque betrayal will befall her with every new person she meets. It’s why she defends Petyr after his murder of Lysa, and it’s why she doesn’t leave with Brienne; if she’s going to be betrayed anyway, she might as well at least stick with a villain she understands.
Ned thinks he’s the Noble Hero in a typical fantasy series. He doesn’t consider everyone else’s capacity for cruelty or the idea that honor alone might not be enough. Sometimes there are no perfect choices, sometimes mercy does not give you the end goal you envisioned, and sometimes you can try your best and that can all be undone by one impulsive, unforeseeable action. You can’t honor your way out of ruthless political conflict.
Robb thinks he’s a Romantic War Hero, and thus everything will magically work out for him. His ideals and his marriage will conquer everything. But he broke a marriage promise to a powerful family, and that has consequences. The world won’t bend to his will, not even if he is doing the right thing or has noble goals, not even if he’s had war success, not even if the people at home love him, not even if he’s in love (show) or doing the most honorable thing he can (books). He thinks that being the hero means he can make it through Westeros without having to play the game, and he gets murdered for it.
Theon thinks he’s an Underdog Outcast Hero. He’ll come up from behind with an unsuspecting War Victory, and that will earn him respect, the love of his family, and a legacy he can look back on with pride. And that mindset leads him to murder two children, to drive away any allies and good grace he had at Winterfell, and the reason that the War Victory he imagined was so unexpected is because it’s completely untenable. He gets more and more desperate and it’s increasingly harder and harder to hold onto the control he’s managed to obtain. He has reasons for wanting this that make sense, and he’s been dealt a pretty bad hand in life, and he thinks that’s and his determination to overcome his personal identity struggles is enough to not only justify his actions, but ensure that those actions will be successful. And then his plan blows up in his face, he assumes he’s been miraculously saved (probably still having something to do with seeing himself as The Unexpected Hero), and ends up at Ramsay’s mercy.
Arya thinks she’s a Badass Heroine in the making, a skilled swordslady and Rebellious Princess who’s destined for more than this stuffy life of politics and dresses and formalities. But rebelling isn’t always enough. It doesn’t help with the Mycah situation, and she still needs to rely on others’ help in getting out of the city after Ned is executed. When she does try to embrace the “fully self-sufficient sword lady” idea while with the Faceless Men in Braavos, she is told to functionally discard her identity completely. She does an unauthorized kill because she, not her assassin-persona-in-training, wants to (though the victim’s identity differs in books and show), which leads to her being temporarily blinded and prevented from going on assassination missions, and outright forced to beg for food in the show. In the show, after being reinstated as an apprentice, she is tasked with killing an innocent person, refuses (rebels), and realizes that this life is one she can’t handle. She goes home, and her heading straight for her sword is one of the things that almost completely ruins her relationship with Sansa. In the upcoming Winds of Winter release, her chapter excerpt has her prioritizing revenge over her apprentice duties, and she remarks that her new identity is ruined with this rebellious action. When you rebel, there are consequences-this doesn’t change just because your intentions are good or because you are or think you are important.
Jon thinks, similarly to Ned, that he’s The Good Guy, that doing the right thing, that following The Code is paramount. He thinks that, because he’s The Good Guy, that doing the right thing with the maximum amount of good for everyone will always be a workable option, and that the heroic option will always yield the best result. This is why he thinks proclaiming his love to Ygritte in the show will end well (because love is good and conquers everything) and is, instead, shot by her several times. It’s why he doesn’t foresee a mutiny in either medium, which leads to his (temporary) death. (Let’s be real, he’s getting resurrected in the books, too, this is the one thing I’m sure of.) Because yes, everything is tense and he’s on bad terms with the Watch, but surely they wouldn’t go that far. It’s rough going, and he has to juggle the needs of several widely different groups of people, but he’s doing the right thing and that will win out; his conviction will protect him, at least for the time being while he tries to manage the bigger threat of the White Walkers. The real fight is with them, the mysterious overarching enemy, not within his own ranks. This is a story where everyone puts aside their differences to fight a greater threat-except for the times when it isn’t.
Even Catelyn isn’t immune, as she assumes that Petyr, since he’s her childhood friend, is invested in solving the mystery of what happened to Bran when he tells her the dagger used in the attack was Tyrion’s. Lysa is her sister, she can’t possibly be suspicious. She thinks the Lannisters are evil, her instincts tell her that they were behind everything, she’s the Protective Mother Heroine, so she must be right. But although she is to a certain extent correct, that’s not the complete picture. And this slightly-misplaced confidence leads her to arrest Tyrion, the retaliation of which is Tywin siccing his forces on her homeland, one of the major first steps in the upcoming political war. Then, her continued focus on saving her children-something that must take precedence because they are her children, and this is her story-leads her to taking Walder Frey’s supposed offer of a fix-it solution for Robb breaking his marital pledge at face value, despite House Frey’s reputation, and despite this neat resolution seeming far too good to be true. She’s so focused on the Lannisters-the Obvious Endgame Enemy-that she doesn’t consider the possibility of betrayal from the Freys. She thinks that the world is giving her a break-because she is so desperately looking for one, because she deserves one, because her family deserves one, and those are reasons enough for her to have one-that she doesn’t even bother to re-evaluate the situation until it’s too late.
Melisandre thinks she’s a Religious Hero, but she ends up burning a child alive and alienating one of her few remaining allies in the process (and Davos was barely an ally to begin with). She thinks she’s Doing What Needs To Be Done to serve her savior, but it hurts Stannis more than it helps him, and he just ends up being murdered by Brienne. This is obviously in the show only (at least at this point), and I don’t know if Stannis is going to burn Shireen in the books or not. Stannis thinks he’s the Lawful Hero, and thus, because according to law he’s the Rightful Ruler, anything he does is automatically excusable; he’s just righting a wrong. And in the process, he imprisons his closest friend, has a hand in murdering his brother (when kinslaying is one of the most universally hated breaches of conduct in this fictional universe), allies with a dangerous woman that much of his own court despises, and, in the show, murders his only child and drives away most of the rest of his remaining team.
They all think that, since they are the main characters of their own stories, that they’re the main character of the larger, overarching narrative. That having understandable reasons or sympathetic qualities or even just having a clear goal that they desperately want, that’s enough to cement their importance. And they think that means that they’re justified in everything they do, that everything will work out for them, that the consequences will be lesser for them than for others, because that’s what it’s like to be the main character. The whole point is that there is not A Protagonist™ and that maybe we should examine why a story needs A Protagonist™ in the first place and what that narrative tradition tells us. When GRRM said he turned down adaptation offers because they only wanted to focus on Jon and Dany, this is why.
#asoiaf#got#asoiaf meta#got meta#most of this is directly related to everyone deconstructing the archetypes they would represent in other stories#so I'm not sure how much of this is just 'deconstructing tropes' and how much of it is 'Main Character Perception Syndrome'#also obviously this isn't every character I ran out of room and honestly some of them like davos and brienne and maybe even loras#probably don't think they're The Main Character which there's a whole other essay in there about how they're The Good People#I personally think Bran never gave off 'I think I'm the main character' energy but I know haters will disagree with me on that#like...Idk his sense of self-worth kind of went away and he spent a bunch of time trying to get it back and figure out how to get by#in a society that now thought he was worthless. and how to get enjoyment out of life when his goals were no longer reachable#it read less as 'I think I'm more Important™' and more 'I'm just trying to survive man' but also I love bran I might be a little biased lmao#cersei lannister#jaime lannister#dark!dany#sansa stark#arya stark#theon greyjoy#jon snow#catelyn stark#robb stark#ned stark#melisandre#stannis baratheon#I take my life into my own hands by putting actual names in the tags but I talk about these characters and I don't know how else to tag#this to ensure people who don't want to see it won't have to see it#also for anyone wondering where tyrion is on this list: I was too tired to delve into this phenomenon regarding him because it is ESPECIALLY#prominent regarding him. and this post was already so long and talking about tyrion in this context probably would've made it TWICE as long#there genuinely isn't enough space in here to include him but know that I'm counting him too. most definitely#behold! a creation!
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vivacissimx · 4 months
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roose bolton as a father figure to theon
the theon's disturbing relationship to paternalism beam is still shining bright. obviously the ned and balon and balon and ned Thing is happening but if we are going to embrace the horror of ADWD, let's lean all the way in.
the role of the father is molded as such to manufacture obedience from his children—generally speaking but also daughters in a specific way, sons in a specific way. filial duty is considered a virtue in westerosi society (even when your father fails to be virtuous himself) and it's the mode by which the father holds power over his children when they come of age. the father reproduces himself by claiming a son under his name & castle, the father reproduces his values by shaping behavior, the father punishes unsanctioned behavior not (merely) by criticizing the contents of the actions of the son, but by virtue of it being disobedient i.e. obedience to my instructions has within it an inherent Rightness / my instructions are Right because they are mine (circular i know!). this is probably doubled for those who follow the Faith of the Seven where the image of the father is a reflection of the Father aka disobedience flirts with blasphemy. sorry for the monologue—this is gonna be important later.
one of the reasons ned & balon come across as such supreme assholes in theon's ACOK storyline is because even outside the emotional reality of theon being a hostage from 10 years of age, he also pretty much does obey what they have to say. there is a time where he plays by their rules and they still don't approve of him or claim him fully. it's a social contract where ned and balon don't really fulfill their ends of the bargain, so it feels unfair. it feels willfully blind because ned and balon SURELY see the benefits they've accrued at theon's expense—ned lives in peacetime having experienced war, and balon keeps his life/lordship which if he were to have been executed for treason, would have all seemingly gone to a boy lord theon—yet they don't recognize the "theon's expense" part.
see how that works? "you are virtuous and right for following my commands" but theon follows their commands and doesn't get his Virtuous and Right headpats. and that rankles him deeply.
okay, now onto roose as theon's father figure in ADWD:
theon is part and parcel of roose's son ramsay. Reek belongs to Ramsay, and Ramsay belongs to Reek. in fact the original reek was a servant who roose gave to ramsay's mother as the first act of acknowledgement. it's through reek that ramsay became roose's bastard. we see that when roose demands ramsay give theon up (briefly), ramsay must oblige... hence, reek is still a form of reward/acknowledgement from roose to ramsay. theon is entangled in them and for roose to kill theon could very well be construed as killing off (ramsay as) his son
roose thanks theon for giving him the north via taking winterfell & (inadvertently) ruining robb's situation. roose is thanking theon for the ability to reproduce himself as lord of winterfell and warden of the north—a duty that a son owes his father
i wrote a post about theon's gender troubles that delves into his parallels with barbrey ryswell dustin—how roose treats them both with certain cares to insure their good behavior, and how they both see through the farce. however the difference in roose bolton's world of easy replacement (he replaces multiple wives, domeric with ramsay, reek with reek II) is that barbrey is warned of her fate via the example of bethany ryswell bolton, her sister and roose's dead wife, while theon is warned of his by the example of domeric bolton, roose's dead son.
barbrey steps into the role of domeric's caretaker and main maternal figure because her sister is dead. then ramsay kills domeric. roose allows it. barbrey puts it as: “The widow of Barrowton… and yes, if I so choose, I could be an inconvenience. Of course, Roose sees that too, so he takes care to keep me sweet.” sweet is not the best word for our barb but she plays along with roose's game despite there being no real endgame beyond a petty revenge against the starks. the writing is on the wall though. not to put too fine a point on it but: ramsay will kill any children walda frey has from roose, and barbrey will know precisely who did it
in theon's case, roose's manipulations go like this: “Serve us in this, and when Stannis is defeated we will discuss how best to restore you to your father’s seat,” his lordship had said in that soft voice of his, a voice made for lies and whispers. Theon never believed a word of it. He would dance this dance for them because he had no choice, but afterward… he will give me back to Ramsay then
roose actually tells theon the story of domeric. he describes domeric's relative capability and desire for brothers. he confesses that ramsay killed domeric and that he did nothing about it, that he fully anticipates ramsay to kill any children he has with walda. later, when theon is thinking about how roose will give theon back to ramsay, the conclusion is clear: ramsay is going to torture and abuse you, and i will do nothing—just like i will do nothing for any other sons i might have
theon co-victimhood with jeyne. does that make theon roose's sort-of daughter-in-law?
that last point was a haha joke... unless? after all, theon did canonically desire for ned to adopt him via marriage to sansa. so roose adopting him via "marriage" to ramsay, theon's use to roose being dependent on his subservience to ramsay, or more specifically, his role as legitimizing ramsay/reproducing roose in a similar way to marrying arya stark and having bolton children with her will... that is to say, haha
starks and boltons are foils, ned and roose are foils, ramsay's dogs and starkling direwolves are foils: if ned was a quasi-father figure AND simultaneously warden to theon then why would roose not be as well considering the stark/bolton relationship?
remember when i said that theon is intensely bothered by the fact that he "obeys" ned/balon but gets nothing for it? if you agree with that then consider this passage: Theon wondered if he might be allowed to fight. Then at least he might die a man’s death, sword in hand. That was a gift Ramsay would never give him, but Lord Roose might. If I beg him. I did all he asked of me, I played my part, I gave the girl away.
there's likely much more i could say here but those are a few points that i think are interesting as part of the larger discussion on theon as well as the social critique in ADWD theon POVs. i mean it really pulls the curtain back—stripped of all romanticism and in the dead of winter where nothing grows, what is a wife truly? a whore, jeyne says. what is a hostage? mine own face on their lie, not [even] a man, theon says.
what is a father? well in theon's decidedly horrifying case, it's the man who has use for you or else what's the point of you being alive
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