#grrm took SO much from roman history

[aegor-bamfsteel]

Do you think that there were chances to rebel against slavery in Slavers Bay?

Not only do I know there were, but the slaving societies that GRRM has written are so overinflated they should’ve been history long before Dány’s war.

The societies of Slaver’s Bay (and the Free Cities) are without a doubt slaving societies. A “slaving society” as described by influential historian Moses I Finley, is different from a “society with slaves” (which were most of ancient societies) where slavery was a small aspect of social/economic life; a slaving society had at least 20% slaves, there’s enough of them to create a cultural impact, and they’re an essential part of the economy. In Finley’s model, there are only 5 slaving societies in (Western) history: Greece, Rome, colonial US South, Caribbean, and Brazil. GRRM makes it clear that without slavery, Slaver’s Bay would collapse economically (as would the Free Cities further west). He provides comically high numbers of slaves in some of the Free Cities (slave to free are 3:1 in Lys, Myr, Tyrosh; and 5:1 in Volantis), but we hear of only a few slave rebellions in them (when the Doom of Valyria happened and they killed all the dragons surviving except the Targs’) until Dány, but why? In slaving societies, the threat of violence for rebelling was institutional and severe…but every one of those 5 had multiple examples of slave uprisings. And in some cases where the slaves outnumbered the elites by that level of magnitude, they were successful. The helots of Messenia took advantage of an earthquake and Thebes’ invasion of Sparta to revolt and eventually rebuild their old city, while the enslaved people of Haiti took advantage of the French Revolution/Napoleonic Wars to win their independence. It stands to reason as a hub of slavery that Slaver’s Bay has an enslaved population close to that of the Free Cities, but there’s never any uprising mentioned until Dány comes? Even though we know that natural disasters and institutional warfare took place in that area. And don’t tell me the magical Unsullied just prevented all rebellions forever; the Spartans were allegedly the best warriors in Ancient Greece, whole kingdoms couldn’t win against Roman consular armies, the French army defeated practically most of Europe during the Revolutionary/Napoleonic period…but there were slave rebellions that managed to beat all of them, even if temporarily (poor Spartacus). But we’re just supposed to assume that after the fall of Valyria—which TWOIAF did tell us coincided with slave rebellions against the dragonlords—absolutely none of these cities achieved any sort of lasting freedom for its enslaved people? Even when the source of the Valyrian might, the dragons, was gone and the elite could no longer rely on that violence to keep the population in line? They were all just suffering and waiting for a savior for centuries, despite being most of the city’s population (including much of the army) and there being only some backup for the elite? The USA had to outlaw educating enslaved people for fear of rebellion, but there were still uprisings; meanwhile, in Essos there’s no ban on education, but we hear of none in Slaver’s Bay? It’s absolute nonsense historically, and only serves to make the slavers look super evil and Dány to look more like an apparent hero; the byproduct is that the enslaved people are robbed of the spirit, agency, and solidarity that they had in real life.

#ask #anti grrm #essos #ghis #slavery #opinion #asoiaf

[megashadowdragon]

This post is a reworked and somewhat expanded tidbit from a massive writing about House Martell I posted last Friday. I think the topic—Doran's gout—is of interest even to those who have no interest in "tinfoil" of any kind. Because I think it deserves a wider airing than the one it likely got buried deep in the comment-continuations of a monster post, I decided to pull out the relevant, not-tinfoil-y stuff, goose it out a little, and post it on its own, separated from the tinfoil context.

TL;DR: Doran has "saturnine gout", caused by chronic lead poisoning from the lead sugar used to sweeten his beloved "sweet heavy strongwine". His gout and elements of his story are a riff on the story of the infamously gout-afflicted real world King Charles I of Spain AKA Holy Roman Emperor Charles V.

All About Doran's Gout

Doran has gout. Why might that be, and what is the purpose of giving him gout?

Gout was historically/colloquially believed to be caused by excessive alcohol (onlinelibrary . wiley . com/doi/pdf/10 . 1002/art . 1780080442 ) consumption. We absolutely see Doran drink and indeed show a "love" for "sweet, heavy strongwine":

[Doran] ate a bit of it, and drank a cup of the sweet, heavy strongwine that he loved. When it was empty, he filled it once again. (CotG)

Each of the Martells in general seems to like to drink in their own way, too. Thus we see Selmy tell Dany Quentyn is…

"Drinking with his knights" (DWD Dae VIII)

…and when Quent subsequently appears, his face is "flushed and ruddy". Dany assumes he's drunk on wine (just like Elder Brother):

Too much wine, the queen concluded… (ibid.)

We also see Quentyn really savor a glass of wine in the dark and pour himself another, much as Doran did, above:

Quentyn… poured himself a cup of wine and drank it in the dark. The taste was sweet solace on his tongue, so he lit a candle and poured himself another. (DWD tDT)

Oberyn swills wine like water:

"Is it Dornish wine you're drinking?" [said Oberyn.]

"From the Arbor."

Oberyn made a face. "Red water."

…

"I think I may drink some of Lord Redwyne's grape juice after all."

"As you like." Tyrion served him a cup.

The man took a sip, sloshed it about in his mouth, and swallowed. "It will serve, for the moment. I will send you up some strong Dornish wine on the morrow." He took another sip. (SOS Ty IX)

Tyrion found Prince Oberyn drinking a cup of red wine as he donned his armor. He was attended by four of his younger Dornish lordlings. "Good morrow to you, my lord," the prince said. "Will you take a cup of wine?"

"Should you be drinking before battle?"

"I always drink before battle." (SOS Ty X)

Arianne likewise really enjoys her wine:

When [Arianne] required more wine, Timoth would fetch it. (FFC PitT)

When [Arianne and Tyene] were ten Arianne had stolen a flagon of wine, and the two of them had gotten drunk together. (PitT)

Cedra glanced up shyly at his name and almost spilled the wine that she was pouring [for Arianne]. (PitT)

[Arianne] drank a little wine to settle her stomach. (PitT)

She seems to prefer her wine strong and she makes fun of Arys's low tolerance for alcohol:

[Arys:] "I was drunk when I said that.

[Arianne:] "You'd had three cups of watered wine." (FFC tSK)

She also tacitly informs us that the Dornish as a whole are a drunken bunch when she says the "Drunken Dornishman" Inn was "aptly named". (TWOW Ari II)

Thus we might simply conclude that Doran has gout because he, like a typical Martell and typical Dornishman, drinks too much.

In truth, though, while booze isn't good for gout, clinically fructose is a greater villain.    Thus Doran's orange-eating—

He had decided to break his fast before he went, with a blood orange and a plate of gull's eggs diced with bits of ham and fiery peppers. (CotG)

"We were eating oranges." - Doran Martell (CotG)

—is probably worse for his gout than his alcohol consumption, per se (notwithstanding the fact that vitamin C on its own may slightly lower one's risk of contracting gout in the first place). Besides all the oranges he eats, the purine-rich ham he puts in his eggs is especially bad for him, while the dates Dorne is known for (along with its fruit in general)—

A fortnight past, a trader had been butchered in the shadow city, a harmless man who'd come to Dorne for fruit and found death instead of dates. (FFC tSK)

—are a veritable fructose bomb.

Not Simply Gout, But Saturnine Gout

All that having been said, I strongly suspect that Doran's gout is not about his alcohol consumption, per se, nor even all that fruit. Rather, I suspect his gout is "saturnine gout", which is caused by lead poisoning. Lead sugar AKA "salt of Saturn" AKA lead acetate was often added to wine in and after the Middle Ages to sweeten and/or preserve it. And what kind of wine does Doran love?

sweet, heavy [like lead!] strongwine

Sounds like wine sweetened with lead sugar to me, especially given (a) lead's colloquial reputation as quintessentially "heavy" and (b) GRRM's love of wordplay.

Sure enough, the distinguishing features of saturnine gout perfectly coincide with Doran's symptoms. Unlike normal gout, which tends to afflict one or perhaps two joints only and most frequently the joint at the base of the big toe, bouts of saturnine gout "tend to occur in the knee" and "are frequently polyarticular", meaning they affect many joints at once. (www  .  ncbi . nlm . nih . gov/pubmed/2661030) Indeed, Doran's knees are a huge problem, and his gout is very polyarticular:

The gout had swollen and reddened his joints grotesquely; his left knee was an apple, his right a melon, and his toes had turned to dark red grapes, so ripe it seemed as though a touch would burst them. (FFC CotG)

Doran has other subtle symptoms that are consistent with lead poisoning/saturnine gout as well. Consider these descriptions of Doran:

…they found Doran Martell seated behind a cyvasse table, his gouty legs supported by a cushioned footstool. He was toying with an onyx elephant, turning it in his reddened, swollen hands. The prince looked worse than she had ever seen him. His face was pale and puffy, his joints so inflamed that it hurt her just to look at them. (FFC PitT)

Beneath the coverlet, his legs were pale, soft, ghastly. Both of his knees were red and swollen, and his toes were almost purple, twice the size they should have been. (DWD tW)

[Doran] sounded so sad, so exhausted, so weak. (FFC PitT)

When he raised his head to look at her, his dark eyes were clouded with pain. Is that the gout? Arianne wondered. (PitT)

In the shade of the orange trees, the prince sat in his chair with his gouty legs propped up before him, and heavy bags beneath his eyes . . . though whether it was grief or gout that kept him sleepless, Hotah could not say. (CotG)

The prince leaned back against his pillows and closed his eyes, but Hotah knew he did not sleep. He is in pain. (CotG)

Sometimes in the deep black hours of the morning sleep found him in his chair. (CotG)

The prince sat in his high seat beneath the Martell spear, his face pale with pain. (CotG)

Look, his hand is shaking. The Prince of Dorne is terrified. (tSK)

[Doran's] legs had been useless for three years, but there was still some strength in his hands and shoulders. (DWD tW)

Doran's generalized pain, exhaustion and weakness, his insomnia (complete with more wordplay surrounding lead's weight: he has "heavy bags under his eyes"), his hand tremors (if not feigned for Arys's benefit) and his mostly pallid complexion combined with the lividity (blood pooling/dark color/swelling) in his hands and lower body is likewise consistent with chronic lead poisoning.

Another symptom of lead poisoning is loss of appetite (whereas common gout is associated with overconsumption), and Doran certainly doesn't seem the hungry sort:

A serving man brought him a bowl of purple olives, with flatbread, cheese, and chickpea paste. He ate a bit of it, and drank a cup of the sweet, heavy strongwine that he loved.

Chronic common gout leads to the formation of "tophi"—white, chalky deposits of uric acid crystals which can break through the skin—whereas "tophi rarely develop" in cases of saturnine gout. And lo! There's no hint of tophi in the descriptions of Doran's gout symptoms.

Given the medical evidence, it's safe to say that Doran's beloved strongwine is the primary cause of his troubles. (In a certain unusual sense, then, it can be said that Doran does have a drinking problem of sorts after all. It's just not the alcohol that's causing the problem.)

The "Saturnine" Giveaway

While the medical evidence adds up, for me there's an even better, textually-coded reason to believe that Doran has saturnine gout. Remembering that saturnine gout is caused by lead poisoning, isn't it interesting that Doran's brother Oberyn is (a) a master poisoner and (b) literally called "saturnine" in juxtaposition to a reference to Doran's gout"

"My brother's health requires he remain at Sunspear." The princeling removed his helm. Beneath, his face was lined and saturnine, with thin arched brows above large eyes as black and shiny as pools of coal oil. (SOS Ty V)

Ladies and gentlemen: GRRM.

The Charles I/V Parallel

Doran's gout is clearly riffing on the story of one of real-world history's most infamous gout sufferers: Spain's King Charles I AKA Holy Roman Emperor Charles V.

Charles didn't marry until he was 25—very late in life for his era and station. Doran likewise married very late for a firstborn highborn man of Westeros: Given that Doran is 52 at the beginning of AFFC, in very early 300 AC—

Though he was but two-and-fifty, Doran Martell seemed much older. (FFC CotG)

—he was likely 25 c. 273, when he did not sail to Casterly Rock with his mother and siblings because…

…Doran was [as yet merely] betrothed to Lady Mellario of Norvos… (SOS Ty X)

Much as King Charles famously fell in love with his wife at first sight, so did Doran and Mellario fall for one another at first sight—

"I saw Volantis once, on my way to Norvos, where I first met Mellario. The bells were ringing, and the bears danced down the steps. Areo will recall the day."

"I remember," echoed Areo Hotah in his deep voice. "The bears danced and the bells rang, and the prince wore red and gold and orange. My lady asked me who it was who shone so bright."

Prince Doran smiled wanly. (FFC PitT)

—such that It Is Known that he "married for love". (DWD tDT)

Perhaps most obviously, Charles was infamously carried from place to place in a sedan chair due to the pain of his gout, just as Doran transported by litter, unable to walk or even ride.

King Charles was famous for something else, too: a famously enlarged lower jaw. And what do you know, Doran's son Quentyn "heavy jaw" that is "too square", which Doran seems to share, as Arianne says Quentyn both "looks like" and "looks too much like" Doran. (DWD Dae VII; tMM; FFC PitT; WOW Ari I)

Two Doran-Charles connections are more playful. First, Charles's love was Isabella of Portugal. Portugal is, of course, famous for the production of Port, which "coincidentally" could be described rather perfectly as a "sweet heavy strongwine" like the one Doran "loved".

Second, while Charles's wife Isabella gave birth to five children in total, two of her sons died as infants, leaving her with three children who grew to adulthood. This just so happen to prefigure what we're told about Doran's mother:

"I was the oldest," the prince said, "and yet I am the last. After Mors and Olyvar died in their cradles, I gave up hope of brothers. I was nine when Elia came, a squire in service at Salt Shore. … And a year later Oberyn arrived, squalling and kicking." (FFC CotG)

All these allusions to King/Emperor Charles are fascinating. To the extent that some people have speculated that Charles suffered from saturnine gout, much like many believe the Romans did, the parallel could even help reinforce the idea that Doran's gout is saturnine, caused by the lead sugar used to sweeten his wine.

The Point

Neat, huh? For many, parallels and references like this are simply "easter eggs", interesting little nuggets that are "cool" and little else.

Personally, I think they're an inherent part of GRRM's greater project, part of a web of references pointing to in-world truths that ASOIAF has yet to even let us know we don't know. (We are all all Jon Snows to GRRM's Ygritte, here.) The much larger writing from pieces of this writing were extracted, reworked and expanded upon here (a reworking which I have subsequently gone back and overlaid into the original) argues that House Nymeros-Martell has two major players in interesting places that readers do not yet realize are Martells. Specifically, that writing argues that Archmaester Marwyn the Mage is a Martell, and that Elder Brother of Quiet Isle, who has no name and who tells Brienne he "died" at the Trident, is in fact none other than the "late" Prince Lewyn of Dorne, who I argue is Marwyn's younger brother.

And wouldn't you know it? Marwyn has a King Charles-esque "slab of jaw", while Elder Brother has a "heavy jaw", also called a "thick square jaw". (FFC Sam V, B VI) What's more, if I'm correct that Elder Brother is a former prince of Dorne who's now retired to the monastic retreat on Quiet Isle, this sets up a huge parallel to history's most famous gout sufferer, Charles V. How so?

Charles famously abdicated all his titles and retired to a monastery, which is exactly what I argue Doran's uncle Lewyn did after the Battle of the Trident. What's more, Charles famously staged his own death and resurrection at the monastery—

…about six months before his death Charles staged his own funeral, complete with shroud and coffin, after which he "rose out of the coffin, and withdrew to his apartment, full of those awful sentiments, which such a singular solemnity was calculated to inspire." (wikipedia: Charles V, quoting a famous 19th century biography of Charles)

—which is in essence what I believe Lewyn Martell did when he was "reborn" as a monk on Quiet Isle:

"When I died in the Battle of the Trident…" - Elder Brother (FFC B VI)

"I woke here, upon the Quiet Isle. The [old] Elder Brother told me I had washed up on the tide, naked as my name day. I can only think that someone found me in the shallows, stripped me of my armor, boots, and breeches, and pushed me back out into the deeper water. The river did the rest. We are all born naked, so I suppose it was only fitting that I come into my second life the same way. I spent the next ten years in silence." - Elder Brother (FFC B VI)

#asoiaf #A Song of Ice and Fire #doran martell #asoiaf meta

[trinuviel]

Was the Stark Ancestral Sword Ice the Original “Lightbringer”?

In a recent interview Nikolaj Coster-Waldau hinted that there might be a deeper meaning to the fact that Jaime Lannister and Brienne Tarth wields Valyrian steel swords made from the Stark ancestral sword Ice. 

(The HuffPost)

Ice was a great sword of Valyrian steel that has belonged to House Stark for times immemorial. We see Ned Stark wield it in his capacity as Warden of the North in the very first episode of season 1 and he is decapitated by his own blade in episode 9 of the same season. 

In season 4, Tywin Lannister ordered Ice melted down and reforged into two new swords meant for his son Jaime and his grand-son Joffrey Baratheon - so that House Lannister could once again have Valyrian steel (House Lannister lost their Valyrian sword Brightroar in when King Tommen II sailed to the ruins of Valyria).

That was a rather painful moment for fans of House Stark - seeing a symbol of their House appropriated by their enemies. Ice was made into two new swords. Joffrey named his sword Widow’s Wail (because he’s a little shit) but Jaime gave his sword to Brienne of Tarth who named it Oathkeeper.

There’s a beautiful sort of poetic justice to the fact that the remnants of Ned Stark’s sword are going to be wielded in defense of Winterfell and Ned Stark’s children. However, NWC’s words seems to hint that the deeper meaning of these two swords goes beyond the emotional resonance of this. In fact, his words reawakened a theory that has been puttering about at the back of my head for a while: What if Ice was the magical sword of the Lightbringer myth? It may sound like a bit of a reach - and maybe it is - but I have several reasons for thinking that Ice may in fact have been the original Lightbringer.

JAIME’S DREAM

According to the Jade Compendium, Lightbringer burned fiery hot when wielded in battle - it was, in short, a burning sword. Burning swords appear multiple times in ASoIaF as I’ve elaborated on in this essay.  One of these times is during a dream that Jaime has in ASoS. When an injured Jaime is being escorted back to King’s Landing, he has a vivid dream whilst sleeping with his head on the stump of a Weirwood tree. In this dream, Jaime wields a burning sword:

“I gave you a sword,” Lord Tywin said. It was at his feet. Jaime groped under the water until his hand closed upon the hilt. Nothing can hurt me so long as I have a sword. As he raised the sword a finger of pale flame flickered at the point and crept up along the edge, stopping a hand’s breath from the hilt. The fire took on the color of the steel itself so it burned with a silvery-blue light, and the gloom pulled back. (ASoS, IV) 

Brienne appears in his dream and she, too, is given a sword that takes flame:

Brienne’s sword took flame as well, burning silvery blue. The darkness retreated a little more. […]  Brienne moved her longsword back and forth, watching the silvery flames shift and shimmer. Beneath her feet, a reflection of the burning blade shone on the surface of the flat black water. (ASoS, Jaime IV)

What is especially  noteworthy here, is the fact that the two swords burn with a silver-blue fire! 

This is a significant detail since the prophecy of Azor Ahai come again calls Lightbringer not only a burning sword but the Red Sword of Heroes!

"In ancient books of Asshai it is written that there will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him." - Melisandre (ACoK, Davos I)

I’ve previously argued (here and here) that the prophecy of Azor Ahai may not be what Melisandre and the audience think it is. It is very possible that GRRM will subject this part of the story to a epic Prophecy Twist - and that the prophecy is not the promise of a saviour but rather a warning.

Now let’s get back to Jaime’s dream. In this context, this dream may foreshadow both he and Brienne will wield Valyrian swords in the Great War - but the fact that the swords burn silver-blue sets them apart from the prophecy of AA coem again. Jaime has this dream before he returns to King’s Landing where Tywin gives him one of the two Valyrian swords that he had made out of Ice, the ancestral sword of House Stark. 

Jaime gives this sword to Brienne when he sends her on her mission to find and protect Sansa Stark. He asks her to fullfill the oath he gave to Catelyn Stark and that is why Brienne names her sword Oathkeeper.

The second sword made from Ice was given to Joffrey who named it Widow’s Wail. It is unclear what happened to this sword after Joffrey’s death but it is assumed that it is kept in trust for Tommen until he grows older. Will Jaime eventually wield Widow’s Wail? I find this quite possible given this dream - and since Jaime does indeed wield Widow’s Wail in seasons 7 and 8, the show might just have spoiled this particular plot point.

However, Jaime’s dream might also hint that the two Valyrian swords made from Ice are special in a more magical sense. They burn like Azor Ahai’s magical sword Lightbringer burned, according to the myths and legends. Yet they burn with silver-blue fire as opposed to the red flames of the prophecy of AA come again. Thus, through this dream imagery, the remnants of Ice are connected to Lightbringer on the level of associative logic.

THE LAST HERO

The myth of Azor Ahai and the legend of Lightbringer are stories that have come out of Asshai, on the far end of the world. So could Ice actually be Lightbringer? This is where we have to take a look at the figure of the Last Hero, which is the character who is credited with leading the defense against the Others in Northern lore. The story of the Last Hero goes like this:

How the Long Night came to an end is a matter of legend, as all such matters of the distant past have become. In the North, they tell of a last hero who sought out the intercession of the children of the forest, his companions abandoning him or dying one by one as they faced ravenous giants, cold servants, and the Others themselves. Alone he finally reached the children, despite the efforts of the white walkers, and all the tales agree this was a turning point. Thanks to the children, the first men of the Night’s Watch banded together and were able to fight—and win—the Battle for the Dawn: the last battle that broke the endless winter and sent the Others fleeing to the icy north. Now, six thousand years later (or eight thousand as True History puts forward), the Wall made to defend the realms of men is still manned by the sworn brothers of the Night’s Watch, and neither the Others nor the children have been seen in many centuries.(TWoIaF, Ancient History: The Long Night)

(The Last Hero. Art by Roman Papsuev)

Who was the Last Hero? No one really knows but I’ve argued that you can make a case that the Last Hero was none other than Brandon the Builder, the legendary founder of House Stark, the architect of Winterfell and the Wall as well as the Hightower in Oldtown and Storm’s End, the ancestral seat of House Baratheon. Why do I think that the Last Hero was Brandon the Builder? It was this snippet of text in The World of Ice and Fire, the companion book to the series, that lead to my identification of the Last Hero with Brandon the Builder:

Maester Childer’s Winter’s Kings, or the Legends and Lineages of the Starks of Winterfell contains a part of a ballad alleged to tell of the time Brandon the Builder sought the aid of the children while raising the Wall. He was taken to a secret place to meet with them, but could not at first understand their speech, which was described as sounding like the song of stones in a brook, or the wind through leaves, or the rain upon the water. (tWoIaF)

In the myths of the North, the Last Hero sought the secret cities of the Children of the Forest - and now this piece of information from Maester Childer’s book Winter’s Kings or the Legends and Lineages of the Starks of Winterfell places Brandon the Builder in those self-same hidden cities. That is too much of a coincidence in my humble opinion.

If the Last Hero was indeed Brandon the Builder, founder of House Stark, then how does Ice come into the equation? Interestingly, in ADwD the text reveals another intriguing piece of information:

I found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the last hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel. Supposedly they could not stand against it.” “Dragonsteel?” The term was new to Jon. “Valyrian steel?” (ADwD, Jon II)

Thus, the text hints that the last hero wielded a sword of Valyrian steel and that a weapon of this material could slay a White Walker. This is something that the show confirmed in season 5 when Jon Snow killed a WW with Longclaw, which is made from Valyrian steel.

The question now is this: How did the Last Hero/Brandon the Builder get a Valyrian steel sword before the rise of Old Valyria (the rise of Valyria and the Dragonlords is generally placed after the Long Night in the historical chronology of GRRM’s world). Furthermore, if Ice was the original Lightbringer, then what is the connection between the legend of Lightbringer and Valyrian steel swords?

THE MYTH OF LIGHTBRINGER AS AN ALLEGORY 

I have previously written about how the legend of Lightbringer works as a subversion of the trope of the Magic Sword on a meta-textual level. Many readers fail to realize that magic swords already exists in Westeros! 

GRRM has specified that Valyrian swords require magic for the forging, which means that every single sword made of Valyrian steel is, in fact, a magic sword! 

However, he doesn’t specify what kind of magic is required to make Valyrian steel. Some fans have speculated that dragonfire was necessary to forge Valyrian steel and while I understand the reasoning it doesn’t strike me as particularly practical in its application. Instead, I think that there’s a clue hidden in the companion book in the section on the Free City of Qohor because the smiths of this Essosi city still know the secret to rework Valyrian steel:

The properties of Valyrian steel are well-known, and are the result of both folding iron many times to balance and remove impurities, and the use of spells—or at least arts we do not know—to give unnatural strength to the resulting steel. Those arts are now lost, though the smiths of Qohor claim to still know magics for reworking Valyrian steel without losing its strength or unsurpassed ability to hold an edge. (TWoIaF, Ancient History: Valyria’s Children) 

It is a secret jealously guarded:

Maester Pol’s treatise on Qohorik metalworking, written during several years of residence in the Free City, reveals just how jealously the secrets are guarded: He was thrice publicly whipped and cast out from the city for making too many inquiries. The final time, his hand was also removed following the allegation that he stole a Valyrian steel blade. According to Pol, the true reason for his final exile was his discovery of blood sacrifices—including the killing of slaves as young as infants—which the Qohorik smiths used in their efforts to produce a steel to equal that of the Freehold. (TWoIaF, The Free Cities: Qohor)

This is an interesting story though it should be taken with a grain of salt, especially since Ice was reforged in King’s Landing by Tobho Mott:

Tobho had learned to work Valyrian steel at the forges of Qohor as a boy. Only a man who knew the spells could take old weapons and forge them anew. (AGoT, Eddard IV)

Mott, however, used magic when he reforged the ancestral Stark great sword Ice into two new Valyrian swords for House Lannister :

But Valyrian steel is stubborn. These old swords remember, it is said, and they do not change easily. I worked half a hundred spells and brightened the red time and time again, but always the color would darken, as if the blade was drinking the sun from it.(Tobho Mott to Tyrion Lannister, ASoS, Tyrion IV)

Whilst Mott was trained in Qohor, I seriously doubt that he could get away with killing someone unnoticed. However, it is possible that some kind of blood magic is involved in reworking Valyrian steel. Blood magic doesn’t have to involve murder as Melisandre demonstrates with the use of blood fattened leeches.

This brings us back to the myth of Lightbringer, which is the story of how Azor Ahai forges a sword in the holy fires of a temple and then quences it in the heart’s blood of his faithful wife Nissa Nissa:

A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade and as it glowed white hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. ‘Nissa Nissa,’ he said to her, for that was her name, ‘bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world. She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes.” - Salladhor Saan to Davos Seaworth (ACoK, Davos I)

(Azor Ahai and Nissa Nissa. The Forging of Lightbringer. Art by Amok)

The role of myth is a recurring theme in ASoIaF. GRRM plays with the idea that ancient myths contain a kernel of truth, a truth that has been distorted over millennia of retellings. A lot of fans seems to think that the myth of Lightbringer functions as a kind of recipe to create an extra-special magical sword. However, while myths contains kernels of truth in GRRM’s universe, they are not necessarily to be read in a literal manner. I don’t think that a prophesied  hero will have to kill a loved one to make a magical weapon. I suspect that the myth of Lightbringer is to be read allegorically rather than literally.

The myth of Lightbringer tells us two things about the creation of this magical blade:

There is smith craft involved - “Azor Ahai labored sleepless in the temple, forging a blade in the sacred fires.” (ACoK, Davos I)

A blood sacrifice is involved - “Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel.”

This actually dovetails nicely with what GRRM himself has said about the making of Valyrian steel: 

Q: A brief question about Valyrian steel - is it the metal that makes the sword so special (provenance, age, etc), or is it the forging (spells, techniques)

GRRM: Forging techniques and spells, actually. There is magic involved in the making of Valyrian steel. (x)

If we read the myth of Lightbringer allegorically then  the sacrifice of Nissa Nissa signifies what type of magic was used in the creation of Valyrian steel, i.e. blood magic.

Let’s get back to the the legend of the Last Hero. As said, Sam discovers an ancient text in the library at Castle Black that states that the Last Hero slew a White Walker with dragonsteel, i.e. a Valyrian sword. In this context, it is worth noting that in Old Nan’s retelling of the story, it is specifically mentioned that the Last Hero loses his sword during his quest:

He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog, and a dozen companions. For years he searched, until he despaired of ever finding the children of the forest in their secret cities. One by one his friends died, and his horse, and finally even his dog, and his sword froze so hard the blade snapped when he tried to use it. (AGoT, Bran I)

A frozen blade shattering in the cold sounds a lot like what happened to Ser Waymar Royce when he duels with a White Walker in the prologue of AGoT:

His blade was white with frost; the Other's danced with pale blue light. 

...

Ser Waymar Royce found his fury. "For Robert!" he shouted, and he came up snarling, lifting the frost-covered longsword with both hands and swinging it around in a flat sidearm slash with all his weight behind it. The Other's parry was almost lazy.

When the blades touched, the steel shattered.

A scream echoed through the forest night, and the longsword shivered into a hundred brittle pieces, the shards scattering like a rain of needles. (AGoT, Prologue)

The Others bring a cold so intense that it shatters steel swords. Only a magical blade might stand a chance against their ice swords. 

If the Last hero was indeed Brandon Stark, and if he did indeed wield a blade made of Valyrian steel, then it is most likely that this sword was Ice, the ancestral blade of the House he founded. If this is indeed the case, the its very name, Ice, could obliquely refer to the fact that it was used to kill a being that was essentially “Ice Made Flesh” (I’ve argued elsewhere that the text implicitly depicts the Others as beings of embodied ice).

THE HIGHTOWER

Let’s just assume that Ice was indeed the dragonsteel blade that the Last Hero (Brandon the Builder) wielded against the Others. The question remains: how did he get his hands on a blade of Valyrian steel when the Valyrian Freehold did not yet exist? In this context, it is worth noting that the myth of Lightbringer and the prophecy of Azor Ahai come again appear to originate in Asshai and not in Valyria. Maybe the secret to forge Valyrian steel wasn’t actually discovered in the Valyrian freehold but in Asshai? This is where this essay gets even more speculative. 

In this section, I’ll be drawing on a four part theory that the user u/sangeli published on reddit a few years ago (Part 1, Part 2, Part 3, Part 4). The gist of this theory revolves around the hypothesis that the Valyrian Dragonlords weren’t native to the Valyrian peninsula but that they were the descendants of the Great Empire of the Dawn, which u/sangeli locates in Asshai. The chaos of the Long Night cause an Asshai’i diaspora (possibly because Asshai was ground zero of some kind of magical catastrophe that rendered the place sterile, which I’ve written about elsewhere). One of the places where the Asshai settled was the Valyrian peninsula and the companion book does offer some weight to this argument:

In Asshai, the tales are many and confused, but certain texts—all impossibly ancient—claim that dragons first came from the Shadow, a place where all of our learning fails us. These Asshai'i histories say that a people so ancient they had no name first tamed dragons in the Shadow and brought them to Valyria, teaching the Valyrians their arts before departing from the annals. (TWoIaF, Ancient History: The Rise of Valyria)

However, u/sangeli goes further and theorizes that some of the Asshai’i also settled in Westeros, more specifically in the location that is now known as Oldtown. It is one of the oldest, perhaps even the oldest of the cities of Westeros and its origins is lost in the mists of time. That doesn’t necessarily mean that it was founded by an Asshai’i disapora but u/sangeli presents the mysterious structure of fused black stone that constitutes the foundation of the Hightower as a piece of evidence for their theory:

Yet mysteries remain. The stony island where the Hightower stands is known as Battle Isle even in our oldest records, but why? What battle was fought there? When? Between which lords, which kings, which races? Even the singers are largely silent on these matters.

Even more enigmatic to scholars and historians is the great square fortress of black stone that dominates that isle. For most of recorded history, this monumental edifice has served as the foundation and lowest level of the Hightower, yet we know for a certainty that it predates the upper levels of the tower by thousands of years.

Who built it? When? Why? Most maesters accept the common wisdom that declares it to be of Valyrian construction, for its massive walls and labyrinthine interiors are all of solid rock, with no hint of joins or mortar, no chisel marks of any kind, a type of construction that is seen elsewhere, most notably in the dragonroads of the Freehold of Valyria, and the Black Walls that protect the heart of Old Volantis. The dragonlords of Valryia, as is well-known, possessed the art of turning stone to liquid with dragonflame, shaping it as they would, then fusing it harder than iron, steel, or granite. (AWoIaF, The Reach: Oldtown)

The base on which the Hightower rests is made from fused black stone in an unknown technique the is eerily reminiscent of the magical arts of Valyria. Yet the architectural style of this edifice shares no similarities with the architecture of Old Valyria:

The fused black stone of which it is made suggests Valyria, but the plain, unadorned style of architecture does not, for the dragonlords loved little more than twisting stone into strange, fanciful, and ornate shapes. Within, the narrow, twisting, windowless passages strike many as being tunnels rather than halls; it is very easy to get lost amongst their turnings. Mayhaps this is no more than a defensive measure designed to confound attackers, but it too is singularly un-Valyrian. (TWoIaF, The Reach: Oldtown)

I must admit that with evidence like this, I do find u/sangeli’s theory that the Hightower was founded by an Asshai’i disapora both interesting and convincing. As do I find their claim that House Hightower may indeed descend from these people, especially since the companion book also raises the issue of the origins of House Hightower:

The reasons for the abandonment of the fortress and the fate of its builders, whoever they might have been, are likewise lost to us, but at some point we know that Battle Isle and its great stronghold came into the possession of the ancestors of House Hightower. Were they First Men, as most scholars believe today? Or did they mayhaps descend from the seafarers and traders who had settled at the top of Whispering Sound in earlier epochs, the men who came before the First Men? We cannot know. (TWoIaF, The Reach: Oldtown)

The reason I bring up the Hightower in relation to the Last Hero and the secret of Valyrian steel, is because Brandon the Builder had a connection to the Hightower as the purported architect of its upper levels. Furthermore, the Hightower is associated with the Night’s Watch through the image of the Lighthouse as a positive image of fire - a beacon in the darkness, which I’ve written about elsewhere.

(Left: Hightower in Oldtown. Art by Ted Nasmith, Right: Sigil and Motto of House Hightower)

If we accept that there’s usually a kernel of truth in the myths and legends within GRRM’s fictional universe, then we may speculate that Brandon the Builder did indeed visit Oldtown and the mysterious fortress that forms the base of the Hightower. If u/sangeli is correct in their theory, then the people who inhabited this mysterious structure of fused black stone may have been Asshai’i refugees from the GEotD - and they may have known the secret of forging dragonsteel steel. The Hightower may indeed have been the place where Ice was forged. 

All of this is, of course, highly speculative, if the Last Hero did indeed wield a blade made of Valyrian steel before the Valyrian Freehold existed, then I haven’t come across another theory as to why he would have had such a blade.

(GIFs not mine)

#asoiaf #a song of ice and fire #game of throne #lightbringer #ice #valyrian steel #azor ahai #the last hero #oldtown #the hightower #asoiafmeta #asoiaf meta #gotmeta #got meta

[justicewinged]

Character-Driven Worlds and the Noxus Update: a “meta”/rant

// On the topic of the Discourse Regarding Noxus. I’m gonna be blathering about novels, GRR Martin, the IoW retcon, and a lot else, but despite the fact that @bendingfrost said it so eloquently people still don’t seem to understand what we, as writers, have to gain with this lore update, and every lore update before it.

More under the cut.

A lot of you guys know that I write outside of this blog quite a bit. My series thus far is a character-driven story based universe that covers many, many perspectives, not just the heroes. And in this, I see what Riot is doing very closely mirrors what I’m doing. They’re playing with and studying the concepts and ideas of grey morality, the fact that everyone has a different story to tell and a different idea of what’s going on. In my writing, I have chapters from the perspectives of at least twelve characters for any given book. Some of the stories aren’t written out in the text, and readers are left to understand what they gather from conversations between characters. Between books three and four, there’s a 16-year gap. And no, I didn’t cover hardly any of it in a prologue, or hash it out in such a way that gave the word of god narrative to everything that happened in the world in the meantime. I took it from the characters’ perspectives. 

Example of this, in the meantime, Zaqarai and Celine married in that 16-year gap. I tell the readers by having them be parents. They’re leaders. He’s a lord now, and she’s a lady, and the lot of them have reforged a clan seemingly lost for decades. Zaqarai finds his close friend Kendor working a forge in a faraway arena in the middle of a wasteland. I don’t tell the readers this at face value. I imply it through the fact that in the previous book, a character named Daria had a blade that was Black Fire make, Kendor is a Black Fire clansman, and she got it from an arena. He recounts knowing her. You have to read deep, in order to see where they met up again, but it’s there, it’s so truly there. In that gap, my character Felici takes on apprentices. By knowing her history, you know where these three children came from. You just have to read deep and see what the writer (in this case, me) is implying. GRRM does this too -- when you read about his court drama, you're expected to put two and two together and figure out who YOU think is the good guy or the bad guy. He doesn’t need to tell you whether Tyrion is morally ambiguous at times. You need to tell others what you think Tyrion is. Writers are being told more and more that readers are smarter than you expect in your first draft. I’m standing by that Riot expects you to read deeper now. 

We can blather all day about whether or not Rito is doing good by their lore updates, but all I’m seeing are things that tie this universe together. With the Vastaya update, we get an entirely new race to play with. We get explanation behind why Nidalee can transform, why there are upright cat people, why there are people like Ahri wandering around. And while we had alright lore for Ahri before, a kitsune is just a legend. What they’re doing, what I think they’re doing, is more or less giving personal truth and definition to these characters that were otherwise flat and nearly meaningless. We only had our imaginations before, and what wound up happening with a good lot of us is that we took that flat character and breathed life into them. Gave them personality and goals and ambitions and stories amongst themselves. That’s exactly what Rito is doing! Why complain about it, when you did it yourself? What updates the lore gets don’t diminish your efforts in character building, but they should give you further definition to define your character with.

Varus got people all up in a huff because his lore wasn’t necessarily flat. But if you look deeper, you can see that his lore held true. Before he was a defender of the being known as Pallas. Pallas is now a place, but one of him was still a keeper there. We had Nami’s story, that everyone loved, where she was on a quest for the Moon Pearl or whatever, and she’s still hunting for it there. The lore people at Riot aren’t attempting to kill your characters for you. They’re trying to add definition and meaning to the otherwise meaningless. Like the IoW plot.

What story did we have with the Institute of War? We had some quirky happenings, some fights, some individuals only existing in the game because they were forced to be there... but what makes them that legendary? This is what they’re giving us here. Reasons why each of the characters might see the legendary aspect of others. Now, without the IoW being canon, we have an entire world awaiting us. I know there are some folks out here in the community still clinging to IoW as if it’s the gospel, but look at this. They’re trying to open doors and throw things out the window that really weren’t good choices from a writer standpoint. Like, okay. Institute of War is a cool concept, but what story motion did it really have? Does it have the power behind it that a Noxian empire commands? Does it have the motion that Demacia has, a nation that’s on the verge of a pivotal change or collapse, thanks to its hatred of magic? Does it have the intrigue of Bilgewater falling to pieces because of a near-death of its leader?

And this brings me to my point again, because lord knows I love to ramble on this sorta thing. Noxus update, right? The land of the “gentle conquerers.” That’s soooo fucked, right? Totally oxymoronic and impossible, never would happen, right?

Except, that’s exactly how Rome saw themselves. Like good writers, Riot is parsing bits and pieces of the real world into something fictional and understandable by writing parts in. I might not have read all of the Noxus rework, but what I have seen has made me excited. It invites me to see the power they present, the sort of propaganda they offer their people. Noxus no longer requires everyone to be a soldier. They have their farmers, their business people. They’ve got technology and strength in numbers. They are no longer the representative of the ideal “strength of unity.” That’s Demacia, now. Noxus is now the strength of the many and the strength of the diverse. They’ve offered up grey morality on a silver platter. 

Historically, most of us will say Romans were the good guys, right? That’s what our history books preach? Well, Noxus is doing the same. Rome wiped out population after population, expanded their empire, and fizzled out by virtue of weak democracy. Noxus is taking it into their own hands, and Swain is forcing the world around them to bend knee to Noxus’s might so they all do not perish.

All of this, between Noxus, the Targonian aspects, the Harrowings, and Ionia so far, we have the landscape for something much greater than these characters can ever dream. Which makes me curious... when will we see more that is just, straight-up, more plot for the whole world? What forces are driving Runeterra to its current place? Does Swain know of the greater purpose of the world, by virtue of Beatrice? Is he trying to save the world itself, not just Noxus?

Only time will tell. 

#lore #new lore #lore rework #noxus #institute of war #outoffeathers #like legit #actually think about these things #consider what impact it has on the bigger picture #don't just get butthurt over the fact they change your precious lore #please #try to think of if from rito's perspective #you'd notice something's going on #all this is coming from someone who's agreed with every single lore rework and retcon thus far #hell my quinn's lore was nearly spot on to the lore rework #one might think i know what i'm talking about

[nyangibun]

Question. Do you think the doom of valayria was really just a cataclysmic event or was there something more to it? Also if the dragons and white walkers and all the magic needs to be gone by the story's end what do you think the significance of the dragons rebirth is for just a few years only to be gone again permanently?

I honestly don’t know. The Doom of Valyria always seemed a bit bizarre to me because Valyria falling from ‘natural disasters’ instead of being brought down by something else just felt too easy – if that makes sense. 

Maybe it’s symbolic. Maybe it’s foreshadowing because Valyria was a place of magic, of dragons and spells. Its whole existence existed in that realm of magical fantasy we’re used to in these stories and the eradication of Valyria is foreshadowing the eventual disappearance of magic altogether in Westeros as that is now where the last known Valyrians (and dragons) are. 

It’s also said that GRRM was inspired by the legend of Atlantis and the Fall of the Roman Empire when writing the history of Valyria. 

What’s interesting to me about that was Atlantis (prior to its modern-day popularity as the lost mythical city under the sea) was actually written first as an antagonistic force to the Ancient Athens. At the end of Plato’s story, Atlantis falls out of favour with the gods and is destroyed, submerging into the ocean. Its force and power were set up against the Ancient Athens to highlight the power of the Athens. 

Although the Fall of the Roman Empire can’t be really condensed into one meta (I suppose you could but I’m way too lazy), what’s important to note is that although their influence continued to permeate throughout history, the strength of their empire was too stretched thin to ever have the strength to rise again. 

If the cataclysm that took down Valyria is supposed to be inspired by Atlantis and the Roman Empire then I feel like it’s symbolic of how Valyrians are an antagonistic force in the free world and that although some (Dani and Jon, and the dragons) may remain, their time had come and gone and they will not rise again. 

I know that doesn’t quite answer your question, but perhaps the cataclysm doesn’t need a more explicit explanation. Magic reigned over Valyria and it was ‘magic’ (of a sort – mother nature magic or if you believe it was the spells controlling the Fourteen Flames faltering, or the other theories) that brought it down. Just as it will the Others and the dragons at the end of the story.

As for your next question, if you’re looking it at face value, they’re the physical manifestation of the Targaryens’ ‘remergence’ into the Seven Kingdoms with Dani seeking to conquer it and Jon’s parentage being revealed (later on). They’re also a reminder of the Targaryens’ once great power over Westeros. 

Their existence also allows for Dani to gain power and armies. At least only looking at Show!Dany, she has nothing without them. She’s not particularly savvy in terms of politics. She’s got a good mind for warfare, but only so much as it relates to her dragons. So in a way, they’re an extension of her as well, with Dani and her dragons representing Fire and the NK and the Others representing Ice. They are the destructive forces in Westeros and they both need to be brought down. They are, like the Roman Empire and Atlantis, are the antagonistic forces threatening the welfare and livelihood of the people of Westeros. 

And maybe the dragons’ short-lived existence in this world is there to highlight how the Targaryen/Valyrian empire may not be completely gone but they will never rise again.

Gosh, I don’t know though. Both are great but hard questions for me to answer lol. I’m not as well-versed in the lore as most people are. These are just my thoughts so I hope in my rambling, I somehow managed to answer your questions

#game of thrones #asoiaf #asks #bsquared050716

[aegor-bamfsteel]

If you could plan a tour of the kingdoms but only could see one place per region, where would you go? I'm not 100% decided but TBH I'm going to Highgarden over Oldtown, so I'm going to the Wall and then the giant weirwood to fix my fear of birds and heights bc that could only happen in a fantasy land lol. Maybe we enjoy Casterly Rock and then nick some stuff as a souvenir too lol

Due to my dislike of large cities, I definitely agree with Highgarden over Oldtown. But I’d recommend Blackmont over the giant weirwood, because the ravens are proven to be warg animals for Bl00draven and spy on us, so you’re right to be afraid of them; the vultures are warg animals of House Blackmont (antiestablishment raiders) who apparently carry children away, which is much less frightening than a magical surveillance state (that also carried children away, but in a less stylish manner). I’m also a lousy thief, and you lose your hand for trying to snatch from the Lord (unless the lord is Tywin, in which case you get hanged), so I’m gonna have to stay far away from you to avoid getting framed in your heist.

The North: White Harbor. Specifically when the seals are in nursing season and rest on Seal Rock. If you’ve seen baby harp seals you will understand

Iron Islands: pass. All right, probably Harlaw. They’re the largest, wealthiest island, seem the most welcoming to “greenlanders”, and are famous for their shaggy ponies (pretty sure they’re based off of Shetland ponies)

The Vale: pass. This is the least interesting of the Kingdoms for me. If I had to choose, it’s a toss up between Witch Isle (sounds like a tourist trap, but an interesting one) or Wickenden (I took a class in candle making once, and I live in a smelly area, so scented candles could be useful). If I’m going to the Vale straight from the Iron Islands, I’m probably islanded out and would go to Wickenden

Riverlands: pretty much the opposite of the Vale, where there’s many places I’d like to go to. Pennytree seems like it has a lot of interesting history and is close to some castles/villages I’d like to look at

Westerlands: Lannisport. Forget what I said about big cities, as this is the only known place in Westeros with an actual public menagerie/zoo. According to Tyrion, there was even an elephant there, though she died when he was young (reminds me of the elephant at the Tower of London). Medieval exotic animal care was appalling, but since Westeros is fictional and GRRM didn’t say it was particularly bad, I’m going to pretend the animals are treated humanely. There are also probably lions at the menagerie, another interesting animal

Crownlands: probably Driftmark. I don’t like the corrupt capital and its scheming suburbs, Crackclaw Point doesn’t like outsiders, Dragonstone is a monument to the Targs and its ruins aren’t even that old, plus it’s ugly, the other areas aren’t well developed, so Driftmark wins by default. If I knew where Blackfyre keep was, I’d go there. But I have a weakness for Roman-era ruins (it was satisfying to eat an olive under the arch of Titus and remind myself that I’m here and the Flavians are long dead) and there’s decent accommodations in Hull. Just make it a short trip before I get dragon sick.

The Reach: I guess you’re right. Robert Baratheon sold me on Highgarden with “fruits so ripe they explode in your mouth-melons, peaches, fireplums, you've never tasted such sweetness”. I love picking fruits and drinking fruit juice, though I rarely get the chance. Just as long as no one arrests me for plant stealing

The Stormlands: Weeping Town. The south coast of the Cape Wrath has heavily fortified but probably now abandoned castles due its closeness with Dorne, good roads that connect prosperous fishing villages, and the town itself has 3 inns and some history. Davos probably lives around there so I can say hi

Dorne: Spottswood. I want to see if Santagar really stables his sand steeds in his own hall. There’s also a possibility of leopards in the woods (or a history of them) judging by the Santagar sigil. Plus it’s near the Planky Town, and I’m interested in hearing the POV of some of the Greenblood Orphans about their history

#ask #asoiaf #opinions #westeros