#hawkeye/klinger supremacy | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

majorbaby · 1 year

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Please, I need to get this off my chest. Charles has always upset me... he is constantly talking about how much better he is than everyone and sometimes he says white supremacist things :/ and in a deep way because he isn’t just racist towards Klinger! He also thinks he’s better than Radar by calling him a bumpkin. It really annoys me when people ignore that part of him or try to write him as this misunderstood, lonely man

i'm iffy about commenting on how people write characters/ships they wanna write, especially when it comes to less popular ones like Charles because I generally believe in "don't like don't read" buuuut I also think it's so interesting to see what dominant trends emerge from fandom because fandom is a legitimate creative, communal space so we should note our observations and critiques in a respectful way. But anyway, my response is more about the general portrayal of the character and the flaws you've brought up because I think you raise an interesting point, I assume that you made it in good faith, and I’m very into discussions about race and racism in media but particularly wrt MASH. Cut to spare people who aren’t into this and CW for white supremacy and all -isms ingrained in it:

Winchester is kept in check to some degree by being consistently positioned on the moral low ground, BJ and Hawkeye get the better of him constantly and whenever he makes a prolonged target out of anyone it’s usually Hawkeye and BJ which you could still call classist and how bad it lands depends on what you imagine Hawkeye and BJ’s backgrounds to be. They’re not implied to be from high society themselves but we don’t know much more than that. You’re not supposed to admire the nastier parts of Charles’ sensibilities and the show makes that overwhelmingly clear imo, he’s not a straight villain the way Frank was but he’s still an antagonist. Later on I think Rizzo gets the better of Charles a few times and that’s very satisfying to watch. There’s an interesting inversion of power dynamics when you look at Potter and Winchester. Charles looks down on Potter for his social background and Potter takes a lot of glee in reminding Charles that while he’s in the army he’s to be under Potter’s heel. Which, like, go ahead, eat each other.

Winchester also gets a lot of moments that (imo, successfully) “humanize” him and it’s fair to feel uncomfortable about that if you perceive Winchester to be a white supremacist which, yeah, I can’t pretend I don’t ever see it – DOS has a remarkably smooth delivery that softens the blow but oof some of the things he says. In Mail Call 3, Margaret is concerned about not being good enough for Donald’s family and she opens up to Charles about it, he makes this comment about eugenics – I think he actually uses the phrase “maintain the integrity of the breed”. And while my brain knows that I’m supposed to empathize with Margaret here and not Charles, I can’t help it if my skin crawls. He calls her good breeding stock and tells her that it’s of utmost importance to the Winchesters and the Penobscotts that they “Maintain the characteristics of the bloodline” like that’s… that’s a white supremacist talking point. So be assured I see where you are coming from. And I have to talk about Klinger: “Klinger whatever happened to your frivolous, pet-like demeanor” yikes. Charles isn’t the first person to say racist things to Klinger, talking down to him for laughs becomes a frequently relied-upon gag in the later years, Potter and Margaret do it a few times. Hawkeye and BJ and even Radar have their iffy moments as well, but it sounds different coming from them than it does from Winchester, in part because he’s made other comments (like the one with Margaret) before that that suggest a much darker belief system – ‘suggest’ might be too weak a word.

We also get glimpses into how the social systems he subscribes to and benefits from actually oppress him too – which is true to life. But how much you care about that sort of thing will depend very much on how you feel about the character in general.

I don’t think Winchester gets a straight “redemption arc”, he’s just portrayed as being a three-dimensional character, for better or for worse. And look, it sucks to have to think of your political enemies and threats to your existence as three-dimensional people – I know I don’t on a day-to-day basis. I think this was a choice on the part of the showrunners after seeing how things played out with Frank Burns, who some people believe should’ve also been more three-dimensional – you can’t really win with a character like that. I’ve seen people say they prefer Burns to Winchester and I’ve never understood that until this moment lol, because Charles being less cartoonish has allowed me to actually enjoy him. But now I see how one might be more comfortable with a character like Burns because he’s such a butt monkey and he doesn’t get a single redeeming moment that he doesn’t immediately ruin. I guess we know that Burns just ‘wants to be liked’ but I don’t think that garners a terrible amount of pity from anyone – any Frank Burns sympathizers in the audience?? I didn’t have the Burns-Winchester transition on my list of contributing factors to the show’s shift to the political center but you know what, that might actually be a thing: Burns being portrayed as a straight villain vs. Winchester (who is much more well off than Burns it would seem) being portrayed as multifaceted. I’m more or less neutral when it comes to these redeeming moments when they happen between Charles and Margaret, who has her own racism to deal with – and I can’t think of many other occasions aside from the one I described where he was overtly misogynistic to her – although the one example I did give was pretty egregious. Or Charles and Hawkeye or Charles and BJ because as I said about Margaret and them a few days ago, they’re closer to one another on the ladder. It’s really a class issue when it comes to them and that’s not something to be ignored (I don’t care at all for how Charles treats Radar and Rizzo who are both from non-urban, implied to be poor, backgrounds and who are of significantly lower rank in the army) but again, it really depends on how you feel about Hawkeye and BJ’s respective backgrounds and whether or not you think their pranks on him constitute appropriate retribution. I think if you are going to humanize a less-than-savoury character, a good way to do that is to show how their belief systems are to everyone’s detriment, including their own. Charles does go through this a few times: he realizes his discriminating against Honoria’s Italian husband will drive a wedge between him and his sister, similarly his self-imposed separation from the “unworthy” Hawkeye has kept them from perhaps being friends and he calls himself on it in Sons and Bowlers and finally he seems to really be at war with himself over his own lifestyle choices in Foreign Affairs.

There is also a wrong way to do it – please miss me with his calling Klinger “Max” in Death Takes a Holiday, where the narrative wants me to accept that this is some grand gesture on Charles’ part after he’s been a racist twat to Klinger on multiple occasions and gleefully takes up any opportunity he can to remind him how inferior he thinks Klinger is. This same thing is actually done much more effectively in Sons and Bowlers (...”Hawkeye”) 1) Charles has actually spent the episode doing a lot more for Hawkeye than this single gesture at the end 2) I’m just gonna say it lol, Hawkeye is white so things land differently. Hawkeye is an equal, Klinger is "the help". I’m just pointing these things out, not trying to convince you of how you should or shouldn’t feel about Charles. Ultimately it’s up to each person to decide for themself what they will and won’t condone. I would suggest observing how that plays out when it comes to different characters. Are you uncomfortable with Charles’ notions on the family unit while at the same time being unbothered by BJ’s? Do you forgive the one-off joke from Hawkeye about BJ’s 16-year-old babysitter but get up in arms over Henry In Love? Do you have something to say about Aggie’s pursuit of BJ but nothing about Margaret’s full-fledged relationship with Frank (and btw why do we not keep the same energy for cheating men as we do for the women they are cheating with??). I’ll end by saying what you let slide vs what you don’t is a deeply personal thing. Mulcahy hits me in a certain way because of the particular chip I have on my shoulder, but at the same time I don’t have any issue with other people’s enjoyment of him. At some point you will have to look the other way on something because no character is perfect and they all uphold some fucked up standard in one way or another. What is important imo is being able to identify what kind of messaging a story intends for you to accept and if you want to take it a step further, consider if there are any harmful ideas it might be perpetuating.

#meta #charles meta #replies #anonymous #race on mash

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unamused-kookaburra · 1 year

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I was tagged by @killerspinal and @beholdingslut (thank you both!!! <3) and after thinking it over I've come up with this list of 8 shows to get to know me better (in no particular order)!

Pushing Daisies - this show has everything! Mystery! Love! Magic and whimsy! Like a warm hug but still has it's moments of tension that land really well. Just speaks to my soul

My Name is Earl - gave me my belief system and sense of humor as a child

The Good Place - I struggle to describe why I love this show so much, but it's whole message on the inherit goodness of humanity gets to me. The ending with what happens once they walk through the final door is just. wow.

Black Sails - I am gay. I like pirates. I like stories and themes. I like my media to hurt a bit.

Crazy Ex-Girlfriend - some things that Rebecca (and other characters) say or do, both good and bad, remind me of myself and without getting too heavy, the episodes in s3 where Rebecca is suicidal really helped me when I was going through it because it didn't shy away from how she was feeling, but it also showed her getting help which I really needed at the time so that has to have a spot here

Supernatural - LISTEN. You don't watch supernatural in your formative years and come out unscathed. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar

MASH - I remember being told about the episode with Hawkeye in therapy at the end of the show talking about the chicken on the bus years before I even thought of watching it and it still haunts me. The comedy is also god tier and the characters are great (Klinger and Father Mulcahy supremacy)

Fleabag - that meme where it's like 'starting fleabag: ha ha funny british lady. finishing fleabag: :'('. Also the 'I want someone to tell me what to wear in the morning' speech felt so exposing

tagging @beamkatanachronicles @torterragarden @nvmbench @eccedeus @goblins-and-gloves

#i liked doing this it was fun!#tagged #personal

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thebreakfastgenie · 1 year

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mash asks 6&2 💜💚

purple heart for you, green for mash, right? :)

6. Top 3 favorite episodes?

Doing this on the merits is almost impossible but I will try but first, my top 3 episodes for highly specific personal reasons:

3. Death Takes a Holiday - I saw the clock scene as a very young child with no context and no idea what it was and it made a huge impression on me that stuck with me for years. I semi recreated it in a surgery roleplay (I frequently played surgeon). Finding out this was MASH blew my mind. It was destiny.

2. The Consultant - This was the first time I ever heard "coarctation of the aorta" mentioned on television. Since then, I've also heard it on E.R., but MASH was first and best and I screamed when I heard it. And from Robert Alda's mouth!

1. Comrades in Arms part 2 - The only thing that could top the last one was hearing Hawkeye himself say "coarctation of the aorta" and if I ever get a chance to write or speak to Alan Alda that's what I'm telling him.

Now... if I just had to pick top 3.... I'm going to say O.R., Deal Me Out, and Deluge.

These were the first three I thought of, but it changes daily, and I left out some that I rewatch more often than these. I do believe in early seasons supremacy. And I think these are more representative of the show than some of the later ones I considered. I do think Deluge and O.R. are cut from the same cloth so I was hesitant to include both, but the newsreel footage in Deluge pushed it back in for me.

The experimental ones (Hawkeye, The Interview, Dreams, Follies of the Living--Concerns of the Dead) are excellent and impressive but necessarily not representative. Any true MASH ranking would have to do best comedic episodes and best dramatic episodes because they're hard to compare directly. I think the show needs both and some of my favorites are the more serious ones, but I also think the more comedic ones tend to be more impressive overall. It's harder to write something that makes a point and has emotional impact while being funny.

2. Favorite M*A*S*H character?

@onekisstotakewithme fully forgot to answer this one??? Editing to add:

Hawkeye...... no surprise there, really. I imprinted on him. It wasn't a choice. Runner up is a dead tie between Margaret and Klinger and I would kill Hawkeye for Klinger so there's that.

#mashposting

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not-trustworthy · 3 years

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mash being surprisingly queer in the 70′s - 17/?

#hawkeye/klinger supremacy #mash #mashedit #*#hawkeye pierce #maxwell klinger #mqueer #s05e03 #s05e13 #s05e17

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swampsidemusings · 2 years

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no it won’t :(

((Also I love how everyone is in uniform except for mike the fucking rebel))

#mash #hawkeye pierce #m*a*s*h #mash 4077 #alan alda #bj hunnibutt supremacy #margaret houlihan #sherman potter #charles winchester #charles emerson winchester iii #klinger #max klinger #father mulcahy #john Mulcahy

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lesbianmulcahy · 2 years

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mulcahy !! or sidney. tbh why not both do not separate them

Ayy thank you!! Yeah you get it,, they come as a set. I am doing this about Sidney I forgot to say that. I already wrote one for Mulcahy!

Favorite thing about them: Again. Everything. Hello that is a perfect man, I want to have his moustache sooo badly it makes me look stupid. But also I love his speach pattern and his voice? Very calm and steady and good to listen to. Also I love a compartmentalizing bitch, Peter Nureyev has nothing on Sidney

Least favorite thing about them: I don't like hypnotherapy abdbsjf I mean they show it working on the show so maybe he is the one person I can trust with that. But yeah. Also he writes to sickmind fraud at his free time. Get a better taste in men

Favorite line: "L I C E 😳🤢😬" but also his whole speech to Klinger during War Of Nerves. "Monument to hope in size 12 pumps".... yeah yeah yeah

BROTP: I'm saying Klinger again... I think it's cause we talked about this recently, about how, especially after the war, Klinger could actually be like... a friend to Sidney. Like a normal person. Cause even if Klinger was like... a patient, on paper, during the war, it wasn't real. Not in the way it was with Hawkeye. Also Deal Me Out gives me brain worms, you all know that

OTP: Again. Sidneymulcahy supremacy I think they could be fun and fucked up together and I think they hooked up in 1943 <3

NOTP: And I don't have any notps either. Maybe I'd question the ethics of him sleeping with Hawkeye after Bless You Hawkeye

Random headcanon: I believe in Sidney's lavender wife <3 whom he writes insane letters about his time overseas and she reads them out loud to their mutual friends back home

Unpopular opinion: Do I have unpopular opinions? I don't think I see people talk about him much at all.

Song I associate with them: Two Sleepy People by Julie London... But I blame my friends for that

Favorite picture of them:

This one 100% images that are permanently stuck in my head

#🥰🥺💕❤️💋💋#i love him i do i do i do #ask

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