Oh and since I am already rambling about Izzy's leg and "redemption arcs" tonight - I don't think I commented on this before because no one I'd been talking to about the season has this mindset, but I just want to acknowledge for the record that the idea Izzy went through a successful "redemption arc" is lowkey ridiculous?
Like *I* do not have issues with it because I don't think he did anything he really needed to be redeemed from with the crew. He was mostly an antagonist due to situational reasons and the situation changed, ergo now he's their friend. Minimal characterization-based hurdles involved. The only place he needed to actually talk through some healing and accountability was with Edward, and that's complicated by a) how I am actually criticizing that as unsatisfying, and b) the story tipped the balance of "harms that need to be addressed" so heavily toward Edward that it feels mostly pointless to bring up Izzy anyway. Broadly? Izzy's cool, and he bonded with the crew.
But for people who actually still think Izzy left S1 needing to be held accountable for crimes or overcome some internalized biases he had...? Um. That didn't actually happen on-screen. My guy pretty much got tortured a whole bunch and then given some community support. He's expressing pretty much the same values in 2x01 as he is in 2x06, minus maybe some self-worth (provided by the community support). If you think this a departure from his 1x10 characterization, then all the "redemption arc" growth happened between seasons in a timeskip and as a direct result of being tortured?
Which sounds the opposite of satisfying?
I mean, again, I think the only important realization he makes between 1x10 and 2x01 is "Kraken Era = Bad" and maybe reluctantly accepting "shit Bonnet wasn't just a fling", neither of which is groundbreaking enough he needs to have them on screen, and that his S2 arc is about breaking up with Edward / that self-worth which we do see. But if I thought it was a redemption arc about growth from S1 I would have notes.
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It's a small world
A fic about various things I wanted to write about instead of rambling about them; focuses on Manta and Hannah. The whole thing is under the cut.
Manta didn’t expect his and Hannah’s connection to fizzle out the way it did.
Not that he was expecting anything specific; She wasn’t someone he would really consider a friend. At the same time, though, he couldn’t deny that they weren’t exactly strangers, either. They hung out sometimes, she tried to help him during his illegal race against Corto, and they bonded over how great they thought Teach tech was – something that left a bitter taste in his mouth now.
He would have expected some kind of a lukewarm goodbye, or an awkward wave as they stepped onto the boats meant to take them to their homes. But as the boat steering towards the Solar Sea took off, there was no exchange between them - in fact, he wasn’t even anywhere nearby, instead preparing for his and Shino’s attempt at getting a better life for themselves.
He did think then if he should have approached her outburst the day before the way he did. Back then, he didn’t see it as anything more than a show of weakness; she wouldn’t have lasted a day in what he had to live through on Polaris. Why should she get sympathy for being a double-crosser? For only feeling bad now that it was too late anyway, now that Gavinda’s plan was in full swing?
But it wasn’t too late. Not to her and the Tikis, anyway. And she did her part in fighting against Teach…
Unlike him, at first.
No, Hannah wasn’t weak. After everything, Manta could tell that much.
Maybe he shouldn’t have underestimated how cruel Teach could have been to her. Maybe that shouldn’t have been his last words to her.
“Oh well. Too bad”, he thought, going back to packing his stuff. What’s done is done.
He hasn’t really thought about this, or anything related to the Mirages, for the next few months. He had more important things on his mind - building a new life from scratch with Shino (and Debbie) on an entirely new island was challenging enough to take away any time he could have had for reminiscing about his old acquaintances from the Whale Cup.
They weren’t on his mind these few months later, as he was walking through one of the lesser known alleys of Tortuga to his boat, either - at least not until he saw a familiar looking silhouette walking through one of the streets he’d usually pass.
“Hannah?” He called out instinctively, more out of surprise than anything else.
“Oh– hi, Manta.” She replied, turning around to face him. “Been a while, huh?”
“Yeah, but– What are you doing here?”
“On Tortuga? I came for the Rotor Punch, obviously.” She shrugged. “But, I wanted to see how you’re doing with my own two eyes while I’m here, too.”
“You heard of me?” He asked, squinting his eyes.
“Duh. It’d be harder to not hear of the famous White Tiger, honestly.” She said, leaning on the wall next to her. “You’re taking Aquagram by storm– You know that, right?”
He shrugged and made an indecipherable hum. Debbie did tell him that he was getting more popular day by day, but he never really got interested in how popular he was outside of Tortuga, exactly. His winning streak mattered to him more than whatever she was doing over on her hologlove.
“Wait, but– Rotor Punch? You’re competing?”
“What, you think I can’t handle it?”
“It’s just– I didn’t know if you’d still be racing after… Everything.”
Hannah frowned for a short second, but quickly smirked instead.
“It takes more than that to make me quit, you know. I managed to get into Solar Empire’s drone guard.”
She crossed her arms, still leaning on the wall.
“So, I’m the one representing the Empire this year.”
“Oh, wow. You got yourself a solid position, huh?” He said, walking over and sitting down on the stairs next to her. “How’d you even do that?”
“Eh, turns out getting to the finals of the Whale Cup was good enough of an achievement to sign up. Only had to climb a few ranks after that.”
“Pshf, sounds easy.” He teased. She only hummed in response.
“What about Adam? Is he participating with you?”
A slight grimace showed up on Hannah’s face. Manta wasn’t sure how to decipher what emotion it was supposed to show.
“...No, he’s not. He hasn’t reached out to me after Teach’s defeat.”
“Oh.” Manta said. “...Sorry.”
“It’s fine.” Hannah sighed, sitting next to him on the stairs.
“...I haven’t tried to reach him, either. At first I thought I should, since Teach manipulated him, too, but… He was always more invested in her plans than I was. It seems like we both picked our sides.”
“...I see.”
“Yeah.”
A moment of silence fell upon them.
“And you’re…not worried?”
Hannah glared at him for a few seconds before deciding on an answer.
“I… don’t know. I have mixed feelings about it all.” She stated, resting her chin on her hand.
“Teach was cruel to him, too. She’s not going to suddenly do a 180. But, if that was his choice, then–”
She suddenly waved with the same hand in the air, leaning back.
“--so be it! I’m not going to chase after someone who made up their mind!”
She let out something between a groan and a sigh, hiding her face with her hands for a moment.
“...What’s it to you, anyway? I didn’t take you for the type to talk about this kinda stuff.”
Manta shrugged, looking somewhere else.
“You were the one who said it’s been a while.”
“Heh– yeah, that’s true.” She chuckled. “I guess it did a number on you.”
“Hmm.”
They sat for a moment in silence before Hannah stood up from the stairs.
“...Well, I should go. I take it you’re taking part in the Rotor Punch too, right?”
“Of course. Who do you take me for?”
“Yeah, thought so.” She smirked again, turning back to go about her way.
“I’ll see you around, then. Just don’t expect me to go easy on you.”
“Psh, as if I’d need that. But yeah. See you around.” He replied, also getting up from the sidewalk.
As he got back to walking to his boat, he felt a sense of a relief he didn’t expect.
Turns out, he was sorta glad to see her again.
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Hey ! i'm a longtime follower of your blog and I've read a lot of your YJ analysis and why the latter seasons totally flopped. I haven't seen you comment on Young Justice Phantoms, although I guess your opinion remains the same. However I'd love to read it one day.
PS : I do think Greg Weisman is a decent writer, but not that good at characterization and desperatly needs editors and not enablers *sigh*
Hey nonnie!
Glad you’ve found my YJ writing critiques interesting.
The reason why I haven’t commented on Young Justice: Phantoms (or the final Targets comic) is that I haven’t watched it, haven’t read a synopsis and have no plans to ever do so. My interest in the series went pretty cold as far back as Invasion but at the time I was willing to give the showrunners good faith on their claims that they had a plan to bring things together and that the problems were mostly production issues. However, after how bad Outsiders was (and having seen similar awfulness from Greg Weisman in other franchises) I don’t have any good faith or trust left to give them.
I talked at length about how Outsiders left the show with no compelling narrative as part of this big Invasion breakdown (grumpier TL:DR version here), but here are the most relevant sections:
In terms of the Central Conflict, the Light are proved utterly correct: by Outsiders the Original Team are callous, hollow husks of their former selves, who have replicated a worse version of the same status quo the Team originally formed in response to. Dick, Kaldur and M’gann’s Anti-Light are a new upper echelon of older heroes who keep even more secrets from the next generations, who exclude the new generations far more strongly from knowing their plans, who give them even less reason to trust or communicate with them, and who do so for less just, less honest and less narratively justified reasons than their own mentors’ understandable (if condescending) desire to shield the proteges from the parts of the Life they may not yet have been equipped to face.
Not only that but their constant lying with the intent to control others, and refusal to hold themselves accountable for those actions goes directly against both the League’s stated heroic ideals of “Truth, Liberty and Justice” and Red Tornado’s conclusion that caring is “the human thing to do”.
By the end of Outsiders, even the existence of the Team itself is undone; decommissioned into the exact kind of safe training space that the Season 1 characters were desperate for it never to be. […]
With Outsiders, any actual narrative set by Young Justice Season 1 is over. By their own standards the Team have lost, and lost entirely.
The meta-narrative of Young Justice Animated is that of a show that started with a promising initial season and strong sense of narrative identity, only to discard every part of that identity. With Invasion the show discarded its original characterisations, themes and ideologies; replacing them with contradictory and often antithetical ones. Outsiders would then shed even the surface trappings of its aesthetic (in favour of the more generic “modern DC” art-style) and mission-based narrative structure. There is nothing left, save for some superficial proper nouns and call-back references: the textbook definition of an In Name Only Sequel.
I didn’t bother with Phantoms (and am frankly a little artistically insulted by its existence) because I knew it was doomed from the start to be a narrative stillbirth. Having actively abandoned its original identity, Young Justice was left desperately scrambling to forge a new one, by clawing at the one thing it had left: people’s nostalgic attachment to the Season 1 iterations of the cast. But this could never work because every season since has been engaged in a performative pretense of not acknowledging the character-breaking contradictions and hypocrisies forced upon the original cast by the poor writing decisions. Phantoms would have to thread an impossible needle: wanting to be about the “journey” of the original cast for nostalgia reasons, while not being able to acknowledge that the last two seasons (and attaché comics) have resulted in all of them either actively failing or being tragically soft-locked out of their explicit character arcs without breaking that kayfabe of performative ignorance. And, in trying to tell a story without engaging with that story's content or how broken it had become, what would they have left but to fall back yet again on canonical filler, sidequests and references held loosely together by contrivance?
It could only ever be a zombie-fic of itself: having long-since concluded or abandoned any remaining character or plot threads, driven forward solely by the stream-of-consciousness compulsive-writing of a production team desperate to remain present, relevant and profitable. And from the feedback I’ve heard from the general community and fandom friends who kept watching, it seems like Phantoms did indeed pull down the curtain on that empty, directionless, hollow-automaton-filled narrative for a lot of people.
As for Greg Weisman himself, while I agree that he is a particularly poor character-writer, I will respectfully but firmly disagree that he’s otherwise decent. I think the fact that we have to caveat “he’s a decent writer” with the condition “so long as he’s surrounded by a team of strong editors and directors to keep him from being awful” kind of reveals that he isn’t. I also don’t really accept the premise that the main fault lies with the people around him for not stopping that. They certainly haven’t helped but he’s a grown adult who can make his own decisions. Enablers don’t generally induce behaviours; they simply amplify or become complicit in the behaviours that are already there.
In the video Plagiarism and You(tube), Hbomberguy did a great job of laying out the difference between “honest mistakes” – which can be easily cleared up by good-faith apologies and explanations – and “dishonest behaviour” – where the person(s) is aware that what they are doing is not appropriate and falls back on reputation-protecting deflections and “non-apologies” to avoid consequences when caught. Weisman would not so-frequently disrespect his colleagues’ work with contradictions, or write patterns of misogyny, queerphobia, casual racism/ableism and abuse apologism into his stories if he did not fundamentally feel entitled to do so, was not comfortable and in agreement with those beliefs, or did not think he could get away with it. And the way he has routinely responded to even gentle, good-faith comments by fans expressing frustration/confusion with inconsistent characterisation/structure indicates someone who knows he has done the wrong thing but resents being questioned or held accountable. And then we see him continuing the same behaviours. A “decent writer” should not need an editor to hold their hand and explain why directly contracting explicitly-stated characterisation is bad practice. A “good ally” should not need someone to tell them that disproportionately subjecting queer/non-white characters to shock-value violence, writing minority characters to be dirty/dangerous/less valid in their identities, erasing/demonising/misgendering AFAB trans and bisexual identities, rewriting strong female characters to need motherhood or men to “tell them who they are”, writing gay men to be secretly misogynistic/racist, and framing victims as being equally responsible for their abuse is offensive. All of which he has either directly done or tacitly allowed under his lead. Multiple times. Across multiple series.
These are not isolated incidents of “good-faith mistakes” from a newcomer learning the ropes (if they were, it wouldn’t bother me like this). Weisman has had multiple seasons - multiple franchises even - and decades to show himself to be the kind of sincere ally and visionary artist of integrity that myself and his fans wanted him to be… and that he has so benefited from presenting himself as. He has chosen not to. Say what you want about their stories, but you can’t claim that marginalised creators like ND Stevenson, Rebecca Sugar, Dana Terrace and allies like Neil Gaiman didn’t push back hard against their own publishers and make a lot of careful compromises in order to tell those stories in a way they felt was respectful. Weisman is in a very privileged position, with a resume that carries a decent amount of clout. He could have held himself to the creative standards he publicly expresses; could have worked improve his craft, could have examined his own biases and actually learned from the communities his stories speak about/over. But he didn’t – because obviously it's easier and more comfortable to keep being lazy, keep relying on his colleagues to carry him, to not question his own biases/privileges and then lie when caught. And with the money he makes, and all the second chances and new jobs he keeps getting handed, what incentive does he have to change that behaviour?
So, personally I don’t buy his attempts to position himself as an UwU Nice Guy Ally whose haters are taking him out of context and whose nasty publishers keep forcing him to do incoherent bigotry. He’s a grown-up, who can own his own behaviour. And, even with a generous reading, this is at best the behaviour of a fair-weather sell-out who is willing to abandon his principles at the slightest hint of pressure from above. That is not what respect looks like. I wanted to give him good faith, but in light of all this, I find I can no longer trust him to keep his word or be honest about his intentions.
This is kind of the other reason why I choose not to support or engage with YJ Phantoms (or the revival in general): on top of being utterly disinterested, I just don’t want to incentivise this kind of creative behaviour with more money or attention. I also can’t ignore what could be a pattern where Weisman makes grand promises that he likely never has a plan or intent to fulfill, then deliberately leaves holes/timeskips/inconsistencies in his narratives in order to generate ongoing demand for separate-purchase side content which promises to “fill those gaps”… but which never does because there isn’t actually a plan to facilitate that (thus creating an endless cycle of demand and profit). To me that cuts a little too close to the potential for a privileged creator to be exploiting their clout and the good-faith belief of their fanbase in order to grift those fans out of their time and money. I don’t find that acceptable.
So, yeah. Not to deploy the GIF again but:
It'll be a big, fat doughnut on YJ Phantoms content from me 🍩. Sorry!
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