#he saw Loki do good before Thor 1 and in TDW and Ragnarok and Infinity War

[worstloki]

i don’t really think it’s fair to say or imply that Loki was Mobius’ slave, or even the TVA’s. Mobius is just doin his job for one. And for another, Loki is a criminal, even if he wasn’t in his right mind when he invaded earth, he still invaded it. he does still have to pay for that, and in that light, the TVA went easy on him. Maybe their relationship shouldn’t have been presented as quite so friendly, but I think they were friends by the end of the season and saying all this awful stuff about Mobius being Loki’s jailer captor enslaver torturer and whatever…it’s too far and there’s no real canon basis for it.

ah yes, of course, bad things are fine to do if someone has done bad things. because they deserve it. got it.

Listen. I'm not sure what canon you've been watching but forcing someone to work with you under threat of death is bad, lying to and blaming them for future events is bad, putting someone in intentional distress and knowing they will react bad to their mother's death and leaving the images up is bad, telling them that they were born to cause pain and suffering and death (especially when their father is Odin, their siblings are Hela and Thor) is bad, leaving someone getting beaten up and rubbing salt in their fears (even as part of 'breaking them') is bad, casually dehumanizing people (words like "pet" and "my/your Loki" and "the Variant") and pruning/resetting/killing people en masse or on an individual basis once they're of no use to you is bad, I'm not even going to continue this list because the TVA itself has such BAD vibes it's literally an authority that's enforcing it's own turn of events and calling it 'sacred' with people like Mobius/B-15/Renslayer pushing their agenda forward because they simply believe it's for the greater good while invalidating Loki's questions until the point where they personally find out they were also Variants (and still express no remorse/mention of any moral argument or lives taken, they just comment on how they could've been happy before).

Like, buddy, pal, I don't know how to tell you this but Mobius is very clearly psychologically torturing Loki in episode 1 in order to break him down and get him to join their side, I would even argue that he physically does so in exercising control of where Loki can move or how he reacts with the collar after riling him up. He does the same thing in episode 4 even more explicitly for everyone who missed it.

Arguing he advocates for or sees the best in Loki is something that doesn't have a canon basis. Every "that's not how I see it," "Is that possible? He can change?" "You could be whoever, whatever you wanna be, even someone good" is surrounded by interrogation tactics and "give my regards to Lady Sif" "What a incredible seismic narcissist" "He's softening in the Time Cell, but while he marinates..." "Just kind of an asshole and a bad friend. Yeah, chew on that for a little bit" "And, hey, if it doesn't work, I'll delete him myself."

There is explicit canon basis of these things, and whether you'd rather not acknowledge them is up to you, and I don't blame you for thinking otherwise since the narrative frames Mobius as some kind of moral pillar of righteous goodness (he ain't) and has he and Loki use the words "friends," but I want it on record I don't use words like slave or torturer or abuser lightly, and don't recall having used slaver/enslaver/captor/jailer for Mobius like you've implied either, though some of the words you've got listed would be accurate descriptions, I'd think, since Loki's only option was work for the TVA or die - until the end of Episode 3, after which he was accused of having 'betrayed' Mobius and been a 'bad friend'.

I'm not even going to address "i don’t really think it’s fair to say or imply that Loki was Mobius’ slave, or even the TVA’s [slave]" "mobius us just doin his job" "the TVA went easy on him" or "maybe their relationship shouldn’t have been presented as quite so friendly" because I don't think I'm capable of doing that without some strong language and a lot of caps lock and this post is already long enough I think.

I also want it noted that Loki's hardly done anything worse than the hero characters. Just because he's been framed as an antagonist doesn't make his own actions worse or theirs better, so do please feel free to apply the same logic you are on what Loki deserves on them too.

Here's relevant posts in the event you wish to read up: (on Mobius' inherent goodness and his job) (on Mobius' take on Frigga) (the holy grail of Loki (2021) meta masterposts) (on Loki supposedly learning to care in the show) (thor 1 loki doesn't deserve bad treatment)

#look #you're free to interpret things how you will #but there's no way episode 1 wasn't psychological torture and there's no way episode 4 wasn't at LEAST physical torture #just because it's presented as 'oh he deserves it tho bc he's a narcissist and he's in love and is a bad person owo' #doesn't mean im not going to refer to it that way #like how maybe someone interprets Frigga as a good caring motherly mother #that's well and good but i'm still going to call her a hypocrite who was gaslighting because that's literally what's happening #torturing someone makes them a torturer but even then I only use the words when specifically referring to a moment or in summary #and i'm counting the Sif thing as torture even if it's funny #even WITH the retconned backstory that's still torture #even if someone deserved it that's STILL torture #even if that's someone's job! that's! still! torture! #the act doesn't change because of context because someone is getting hurt #it's like saying ''well it's unfair to say loki attempted genocide because he was just doing what he'd been raised to do'' #WHICH by the way has more supporting evidence for being morally okay to do within context than the TVA's killing #because at least Loki until the show wasn't denying any of the things he'd done or blaming others or being a hypocrite #while the TVA very much IS built on terrible concepts AND sees Loki's role as an evil scourge for not doing 0.001% of the stuff they do #AND PLEASE TAKE INTO ACCOUNT MOBIUS' TONE WHEN HE SAYS THINGS LIKE ''maybe loki can change? mix it up? is that possible?'' #because not only is his voice loaded with doubt or 'eh he's useful so keep him' but he has Loki's whole life on file #he saw Loki do good before Thor 1 and in TDW and Ragnarok and Infinity War #so the entire thing just has me going AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA #YEAH loki ''betrays'' people and you LOOK AT THE LIST OF PEOPLE AND IT'S ALL VILLAINS (with the exception of Thor) #so AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA is apt methinks #the Loki show

[iamanartichoke]

In which I react to the trailer, bit by bit, because why not? 

This post is long and image-heavy; sorry, dashboard. 

So first of all, the line that keeps running through my head is a line from a fic AU - Have Tesseract, Will Travel by WinterDusk - wherein Alternate Timeline Loki catches up with Post-Endgame Thor. It’s a glorious series and everyone should go read it right now.

“The Tesseract skids to a stop at Loki’s feet. Loki, not being entirely stupid, picks it up.”

It’s such a good line that it should be, like, a narrative voiceover or something. But anyway. 

I have to say, I love seeing Loki’s “old” armour again, as opposed to what he was wearing in Ragnarok/IW (and what he died in, sorry, what?). His hair is definitely doing something inconsistent, but I’m not terribly bothered by it. (I’m glad his hair looks natural and a bit chaotic, as opposed to the stiff, awkward wigs.) And he’s landed in a desert - so, where has he ended up? On Earth? On another planet? Another galaxy? I guess we’ll find out. 

“You’re taking me somewhere to kill me.” 

I think it’s interesting that Loki assumes that they’re going to try to kill him. He doesn’t look afraid, he doesn’t look surprised, just resigned: You’re going to kill me. I think it makes sense that this would be his reaction, in that he can’t fucking catch a break and he knows it. I’m interested to see how they managed to overpower him enough to get that collar around his neck, which I’m assuming is something that suppresses his magic. A fight scene? 

Another note: the scar on his forehead has already healed up; depending on how quickly he heals, this could be a few days or a few weeks after the opening shot. Either he wasn’t captured right away, or he’s been sitting in a cell for awhile before they deign to bring him elsewhere. 

Also, I didn’t recognize Owen Wilson right away. He looks like a kinda weird combination of Howard Stark and General Ross, lmao. 

Idk about the “you love to talk” line bc Loki doesn’t really like to talk - but, it’s also fair to say that the assumption could be made if one was basing his understanding of Loki on what we saw in Avengers (similar to how Tony says Loki’s a “full-tilt diva,” it doesn’t make it true, just makes it someone else’s perception).

I really like Loki’s “wtf” expression when he looks at Owen Wilson, though. 

Friendly reminder that Loki is the protagonist in his series, which means he’s probably going to going up against whatever big bad this is. Which means we get to see him in the context of being the one the audience is rooting for, instead of the villain. 

I think Loki looks the most beautiful here. Look at that face, that tiny little smirk, that luscious hair. Aw yisss. More of this Loki please (for aesthetic purposes). 

I like his expression here; reminds me a bit of when he’s brought in front of Odin in TDW, but a bit more uncertain - as if he’s thinking, I don’t know what’s going to happen, but I’m not going to let you know that I’m concerned. If that makes sense. 

I also dig the music. 

I wonder if they’re showing Loki possible futures (considering he’s now created a new timeline) or if it’s strictly Loki-Prime’s life, and if it’s the latter, I am super curious to see how he reacts to the loss of Asgard and the subsequent run-in with Thanos. I hope he does not get shown his death because, butter-knife-stupidity aside, it was so brutal that showing it to him would just be cruel, I would think. 

This shot is interesting to me bc it’s from Loki’s POV - it’s what Loki sees when he realizes he’s surrounded. So where are these images coming from, anyway? Maybe the collar isn’t a magic thing, maybe it gives them the ability to see inside of Loki’s mind - or, to at least pull images from it. Idk. I like how Loki is still not showing much emotion, though; he’s just sitting there, arms folded, like okay, sure. 

Until here. What does Loki see that makes him close his eyes and turn away? He looks annoyed, he looks exhausted, he looks fed up. My first thought was that he was turning away at the shot of the Avengers - the reminder that he lost, or that he failed. Maybe Owen Wilson was saying something taunting about it. But really, it could be anything. It’s a really interesting moment, though, because it’s a genuine reaction from Loki and I’m hoping that it implies he feels some kind of way about New York and perhaps will talk about it - like that he lost on purpose, or he’ll mention Thanos, or something. Again, Loki being the protagonist means that there’s a ton of potential for really getting Loki’s side of things, and if they’re going through his memories, then we might get to see Loki talk about those memories. 

This looks like Loki’s gone from being the TVA’s prisoner to working for them, which is interesting, but not entirely unexpected, if we’re to assume that the TVA’s interests lie in defeating the hooded big bad from before and they need Loki to do it. I’m also curious if they never intended to capture him long-term at all but, in fact, sought him out because of his magic/skills/etc in order to help them. That would also make sense - that it’s more of a recruiting thing than a punishment thing - considering that Loki isn’t even the one who fucked up the timeline to begin with and that the Avengers are the ones responsible for that. 

We love a flippy-knife Loki, don’t we? 

Post-apocalyptic future? Potential of what could have happened if Loki (and, by extension, Thanos) had won? Or an alternate timeline altogether? I have no idea. Loki looks so smol though, all alone in the ruins. 

I really hope this is a wig and Loki didn’t cut his hair, bc this just looks like Tom with short black hair, lmao. Like the Night Manager with a Loki smirk. It’s not bad, I just don’t care for it. I wonder how Asgard will react when Loki shows up looking like that. 

Action shots! Loki doing stuff! Fighting! Random twirly girl! I’m here for all of the action sequences and I’m not sorry. 

Imagine being that girl. Hoo. 

Everyone was talking about Sam jumping out of the plane without a parachute and haha, another one like Steve, but just look at Loki’s bad ass soaring through the clouds. Also, I am a loser, but the one inconsistency in the “Loki is DB Cooper” theory - for me - is that I thought it was night time and raining when DB jumped. But, that’s just me. 

Also, has Loki always pronounced Heimdall like that? HeimDAAALL, like with a hard A? Or is that also just me? 

And there’s the Bifrost, pulling short-haired DB Cooper Loki to Asgard. 

(That little window for the Falcon trailer came up and I couldn’t minimize it, sorry.) 

I have no idea what is going on here, but I have to say, that gravelly come on! What did you expect? is all kinds of pleasing to me. I have always loved Tom’s deep Loki voice. I am assuming this is something from the comics or that it’s an alternate reality Loki or something like that, but again, context matters and this was really the only part of the trailer that (the first time) made me go, uh can we not? Who knows. 

And there we are. My honest opinion is that, while some of it seems questionable, it overall seems kind of promising to me? I think that if you read between the lines, so to speak, and pick up on all of Loki’s little tells and micro-expressions, what we’ll probably end up seeing is a combination of Thor 1/TDW Loki with a side of Avengers and some Ragnarok-flavored sprinkles. I also think that the trailer has probably sliced up and served the juiciest bits to appeal not just to Loki’s core fanbase but to the Ragnarok fans and to the casual MCU fans who may want to tune in for fun. 

Again, we’re getting approximately two full-length movies worth of a story in which Loki is the protagonist. And I’ll just say it: my initial overall reaction was that I liked it. I’m apprehensive, but I’m hopeful. Look at it this way: nothing in this series will be worse than what we already had to endure in Infinity War. 

So, yeah. We’ll see what happens, but I think it’ll be okay and, even if it’s not? Well, on the bright side, there’s more footage and content to inspire brilliant fanworks (fics, music vids, art, etc), which is just the new life that needs to be breathed into the Loki fandom right now. In my opinion.  

#plus can i just say #i am SO GLAD #there was no kiss in the trailer #if there was romance in the story - or if romance was a big part of the story - i'm sure they'd have played that up #by showing loki kissing someone in the trailer #the lack of it leaves me hopeful that a love interest #is not a priority #loki on the small screen #is my new tv show tag #i am creative #loki series positivity #loki pokey artichokey #long post #image heavy post #sorry

[philosopherking1887]

(1) Hey, this is gonna be long but I have a question about all this #anti Chris Hemsworth situation. Just to be clear - I'm not on any side tbh, I'm just curious, hoping you could clear it all up a bit, if you will. SoI haven't been following Chris and Tom's interactions since TDW. Back then, they seemed to be really good friends, they were both joking, laughing and praising each other's work, seemed to have some good fun filming together. I remember Hemsworth saying something...

(2)...Hemsworth saying something along the likes of 'we adopted Tom into the Hemsworth family, we love him' during some interview. Then RAGNAROK came and I only saw some behind the scenes videos but not much really. I have noticed that Taika Waititi didn't really seem to like Tom and Tom himself seemed to be kind of uncomfortable around him. But that's just Taika, I haven't noticed anything wrong between Tom and Chris, only that they didn't seem as close as they used to, but I didn't really...

(3)...didn't really pay attention to that. Now I've seen some of your posts, scrolled through the #anti Hemsworth tag here on tumblr and things seem to be really serious. Ppl talking about how Chris been giving Tom 'the cold shoulder', him and Tessa making fun of him, Tom seeming to be sad and uncomfortable around CH and him saying some mean things about Tom... Now my question is, do you have any links to some specific interviews etc. that highlight this weird situation? Or would you mind... 

(4)...would you mind making a sort of 'master post' describing this whole turn of events? Of course if you have some spare time. Sorry to ask that of you, I'm just really confused. I never really loved Hemsworth but he seemed a nice guy and Tom also seemed to like him a lot. I generally like to check the sources before I make up my opinion on someone and here on tumblr it's all just so chaotic..

As it happens, I’ve already made a masterpost of sources and commentary explaining why Thor: Ragnarok was terrible. The second section has a bunch of links to interviews with Hemsworth about the new direction of the Thor franchise, including some comments about Loki. Many of those are from after Infinity War and/or Endgame, and they don’t cover the Ragnarok press tour, when many of us started observing a noticeable chill in the relationship between Hemsworth and Hiddleston. But these interviews do provide some confirmation of the sense that Hemsworth has lost the respect and affection he used to have for Tom.

I don’t have specific sources for the origin of the cold-shouldering or the thing about Chris and Tessa making fun of Tom -- from what I saw in the TR press tour cast interviews, when Tessa was paired with Tom much more often than Chris was, Tessa didn’t seem to have gotten the memo from Chris and Taika that Tom was persona non grata, and she actually said a lot in praise of Tom’s acting, and in particular of the sexiness of his voice (same with Jeff Goldblum). @nikkoliferous has even more extensive anti-Ragnarok documentation than I do, though, and might be able to provide receipts for the nasty interpersonal stuff.

I should note that my personal antipathy toward CH is as much about his cavalier destruction of his own character and the integrity of the franchise as a whole as it is about his personal nastiness to Tom, and the interview links I’ve collected highlight that aspect. I linked those articles as evidence for the conclusion that Ragnarok was intended as a reboot-cum-sendup of the previous movies, not a satisfying conclusion to the arcs of the characters as previously established -- contrary to the claims of some Ragnarok stans who professed to have been fans of the franchise previously.

#anti thor ragnarok #anti chris hemsworth #widevibratobitch

[magicmastered]

Plot Holes in Infinity War

If you don’t want to see criticism of Infinity War, I suggest that you don’t read/filter your tags/block me.

Now.

Avengers: Infinity War is one of Marvel’s biggest movies, being among the longest MCU movies and quite successful in the box office. Unfortunately, that doesn’t mean it’s a great movie. The storyline that calls itself a plot is smashed together in whatever manner makes a few specific scenes happen. That style of writing has its trademarks—plots that could almost be used as cheesecloth. I’m not kidding; there’s tons of them. Some are within the movie. Some fly in the face of the rest of the MCU.

Here’s all the plot holes that I can think of. After the first couple scenes the chronological order gets messed up a little, but here goes.

1. Starting at the beginning here. So...Loki has the Tesseract. Why didn’t he use it to make a portal to get the Asgardian refugees out (or as many as he can, anyway)? We know he can use it. Why didn’t they just start a ship-chase to buy a little time and use that time to evacuate?

2. So, Loki knows Thanos, right? He’d know Thanos’ M.O. Wouldn’t he know that Thanos would go for Thor? Why not stuff Thor in his pocket dimension beforehand? Did Thanos and the Black Order block him from doing that? That’s not what I remember seeing. Loki was standing off sort of on his own at the very beginning of the scene.

3. Where has the Hulk been? Yes, “we have a Hulk” is a cool callback and it looks good as an entrance, but wouldn’t a Hulk be good to have when Thanos and the Black Order were slaughtering the Asgardian refugees? Why was he staying back the whole time? It doesn’t make sense. If he hadn’t been staying back, Thanos and co. would’ve known about him, and the surprise-attack wouldn’t have been a surprise. Was he just sitting on his butt listening to the refugees dying until he heard the words “we have a Hulk”?

4. Once Hulk does attack, Loki dives for Thor and drops the Tesseract. What. Why not just hold onto the Tesseract, grab Thor, and portal out of there? Wouldn’t that make more sense than dropping it for someone else (Ebony Maw) to pick up?

5. Heimdall. Why does Heimdall rescue the Hulk instead of Thor, Loki, or both? He’s known Hulk for maybe a day or two. He’s known Thor and Loki for over a thousand years. What’s going on with that? Why does he save the one he just met as opposed to the ones he’s known since their infancy?

6. More about Heimdall. Since when has he been able to summon the Bifrost? This is a major point of TDW. If Heimdall had been able to summon the Bifrost without the actual structure, Thor and co. wouldn’t have had to break Loki out of prison. How can he suddenly do it now? Why hasn’t he used it before?

7. Where did Loki go during the Hulk-vs-Thanos fight? He disappears after going for Thor for several minutes. Where to? I know people have brought this up before, but I want to know.

8. Why doesn’t he stay there? He’s stuck in a ship with five people who’ve just killed half the refugees his risked his life to rescue, who’d be more than happy to kill him (at best), and they’re more or less ignoring his presence where he currently is. Why go out and deliberately draw their attention?

9. Loki attacking Thanos at all. What is Loki doing?! He knows Thanos better than any other protagonist on that ship. He just saw Thanos beat Hulk one-on-one. Why does he think this is something he should do?!

10. More on that stupid, stupid attack. Loki’s got plenty of powers and abilities. Super-strength, durability, insane reflexes, freaky intelligence, combat skills, ice manipulation, illusions, invisibility, teleportation (this is canon, check out Thor: Heroes and Villains), shapeshifting, telekinesis, off the top of my head. I probably forgot something. Loki overpowered Odin. He has all this and likely more at his disposal, and he attacks Thanos with what? A knife. One knife that barely reaches Thanos’s throat.

11. Another thing about this attack. Considering the above, he probably knew he was going to die. So why did he do it? People say that he was sacrificing himself for Thor. Except...him dying wouldn’t have stopped Thanos at all. Thanos could’ve just killed Thor after Loki’s death. Loki dying or Loki being alive wouldn’t change a thing. And besides, Thanos all but did that anyway when he blew up the ship.

12. Thanos killing Loki. The Russos said that Thanos killed Loki for ‘disobedience’. Presumably this means Loki’s ‘disobedience’ in Avengers (2012). But...death is not what Thanos (or his underling the Other, rather) threatened Loki with for failure/disobedience. The threat was, “if you fail, if the Tesseract is kept from us, there will be no realm, no barren moon or crevice where he can’t find you. You think you know pain? He will make you long for something sweet as pain.” That is...not death. Definitely not what Thanos actually did.

13. Still more on Thanos killing Loki. Let’s look at the insane stuff Loki’s survived so far: falling into an unstable wormhole (in the prequel comics, Odin claims that this should have scattered Loki across the universe), a year of torture from Thanos, getting thrashed by the Hulk (who’s nearly as strong as Thanos), taking a sword through his chest and back, and getting knocked out of the Bifrost (note that Thor seems somewhat surprised with his “you’re alive!” in Ragnarok). And now apparently getting his neck broken is going to kill him.

14. Okay, finally done with the first scene. How did Heimdall know about the Sanctum? How did he know to send Bruce/Hulk there? How did he know about Strange? Thor and Loki didn’t know that Earth had wizards in Ragnarok. How does Heimdall know? Did they tell him? When? They’ve been pretty busy.

15. Dr. Strange keeps a list of threats, but he doesn’t know about Thanos. He doesn’t even seem to know that a threat so large exists. I suppose this could be a case of Thanos simply never having been to Earth, but it still seems off. Wouldn’t Strange at least know that there’s something huge out there? Given that the Masters of the Mystic Arts know about beings around the multiverse and all.

16. How does Bruce know so much about Thanos and the Infinity Stones, or that Thanos sent Loki? He knows what Thanos does. He knows that Thanos is after the Stones. How? No one tells him this stuff onscreen. Was there some mysterious conversation somewhere between Ragnarok and Infinity War where everyone shared all the information that they had? Wouldn’t they have been busy organizing the refugees in the ship/finding quarters for everyone/figuring out how to get food and water for the trip? You know, stuff that’d seem more immediately relevant?

17. How does Thor know that the Aether was on Knowhere? This is never discussed onscreen. I’m seriously suspecting that info-dump conversation. But still, why were they having an info-dump conversation? Wouldn’t the things mentioned in item 15 be more immediate concerns? It’s not like they all knew that they were about to need this information.

18. Thanos’s plan and “making sense”. No plot-hole list of IW would be complete without this. Thanos believes that there is too much life in the universe for its resources to sustain. For the sake of argument alone, I’ll assume that he’s correct for the duration of this point on the list. Thanos has decided that in order to save all life in the universe, he needs the Infinity Stones to “balance” the ratio of life to resources. Okay, that’s fairly logical. He can do anything with the Infinity Stones. Here comes the weird part. He decides that the only way to “balance” the universe is to kill half of all life...including (according to the Russos) plants and animals. AKA resources. Remember, he’s devoted decades at minimum to the development of this plan. And this is the best he can come up with. He’s got unlimited power. Couldn’t he use the Space and Reality Stones to move beings around to other planets with more resources? Couldn’t he use the Reality Stone to make more resources? No, gotta kill half the life he’s ‘trying to save’ and the resources they use as well. That doesn’t change the ratio at all. It doesn’t accomplish his stated goal.

19. Gamora. How does Gamora know what the Soul Stone is? The Collector had to explain Infinity Stones to her as well as the rest of the Guardians in GOTG Vol 1. So how would she know what the Soul Stone was, let alone where it was?

20. What exactly did Thanos do to the Zen-Whoberi (I think that’s how you spell Gamora’s species)? In IW, Thanos says that the remaining population of her planet is thriving. However, in GOTG Vol 1, it’s stated onscreen that Gamora’s the last of her species. Did Thanos kill all the Zen-Whoberi or half of them? If the latter, did the other half die off because—gasp!—his plan hadn’t worked on their planet? In that case, is Thanos just even more massively deluded than I previously thought, is he lying, or is it someone else who’s thriving on Gamora’s home-world?

21. How did Steve, Sam, and Nat wind up exactly where Wanda and Vision needed them to be? They’d moved quite a bit from their initial location during the fight with Proxima and Corvus. I know, I’m nitpicking, but still.

22. How does Nat, an unpowered but skilled human, manage to overpower Corvus Glaive, a member of the Black Order who’s presumably far stronger and also highly skilled? Yeah, she took him by surprise, but it shouldn’t have been easy at the very least.

23. Steve denying Vision the choice to sacrifice himself. As others have pointed out, Steve made a very similar decision back in CA:TFA. He chose to dive a plane into the ocean, which would—he thought—kill him, to save many lives. Now, Vision’s decided that Wanda should destroy the Mind Stone in his forehead, which would kill him, to save many more lives. Why is Steve denying Vision the ability to make the choice that he made himself? (Hint: It’s so they can have a cool-looking final battle to save Vision and then have him die anyway.)

24. Speaking of destroying the Mind Stone. Isn’t destroying Infinity Stones supposed to be impossible? This was another major point in TDW. Jane only came across the Aether (Reality Stone) in that movie because there was no way to destroy it and Bor had to settle for hiding it. Malekith gets the Aether because they still couldn’t destroy it. Infinity Stones are either indestructible or they’re not. Which is it?

25. “We don’t trade lives,” says Steve, right before he decides to trade hundreds if not thousands of Wakandan lives to save the life of his friend (who’d already decided that he wanted to sacrifice himself). Um, what?

26. T’Challa agreeing to risk his countrymen is iffy. He’s agreeing to send hundreds (if not thousands) or his people to their deaths to save one person with a lengthy, experimental procedure. And again, that one person has already voiced the opinion that they should just destroy the Mind Stone while they still can, whether it kills him or not. Wouldn’t T’Challa respect that decision, especially since it’s the one that saves the most lives?

27. When the Titan crew pins Thanos, why are they just trying to take the gauntlet off his hand? Tony at least has been in/witnessed (it’s been a while since I saw IM3) a fight that involved cutting off the villain’s hand. Wouldn’t he have thought of this during the planning stage? They could’ve stuck Thanos’ wrist through one of Dr. Strange’s portals and cut it off. No gauntlet, no snap.

28. How does Thor know to come to Wakanda? I get that he knows there are Infinity Stones on Earth. But last time he was on Earth, Vision was in New York, wasn’t he? How would he know that Vision was now in Wakanda? How would he know that the battle was there? Does Rocket have an Infinity Stone-sensing device? Why didn’t this come up?

29. Why did Thor go for Thanos’ chest? Thor generally goes for the head when he’s fighting. Except, of course, for this time. Why? Wouldn’t he want to make absolutely sure that Thanos was dead? (Besides so Thanos could win?)

30. If not the head, why didn’t Thor at least go for the gauntlet hand? In TDW his and Loki’s plan to deceive Malekith involved Loki pretending to cut Thor’s hand off so he couldn’t use his weapon. Wouldn’t Thor have some vague memory of the whole ‘if you remove your enemy’s weapon hand, they won’t be able to fight’ thing?

I guess it’s pretty obvious where I spent most of my time looking.

I’ve probably forgotten some, seeing as I watched this thing, what, one and a half times last year, when it came out and shortly afterwards. Any additions?

@lucianalight @lokiloveforever @philosopherking1887 @mastreworld

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[elenatria]

Do you think Loki is going to be in Thor 4 ? I know he's getting his own show but I like seeing the two together ! I also didn't understand if this movie is still about thor odinson or if is going to be about janethor and odinson is just going to be there. Who's the protagonist?

Well. Good question. Let me try to answer the second part first.

Initially I was kinda pissed. I hated Jane so so much in the previous films, what a generic boring Mary Sue she was and a disservice to Natalie’s awesomeness. Secondly I got pissed because heyyyy this is supposed to be a Thor film, not a female Thor film, I don’t care if it’s canon. Thirdly I know from hardcore Thor fans (yeah, the ones who have actually read the comics unlike myself) that female Thor is NOT the best Thor story line ever written... 

So basically I’m copy/pasting from my friend who has read the comics:

“It seems they couldn't think of a better way to empower a female character without demeaning and humiliating a beloved male character. 

Half of the story is just about her being able to lift the hammer, just because, and Jane being absurdly out of place. The other half of the story is just about character assassination of Thor, Odin sounding like a meninist, all Thor's friends and allies loving Jane!Thor without any valid reason and forgetting their loyalty to the true and original Thor, everyone just fawning over Jane!Thor though she has just stolen Thor's name and identity. Even Mjolnir is absurd. Suddenly all is better with Jane!Thor and all Thor's struggles, sacrifices and courage are discarded. 

Literally villains simply surrender to her because she is a woman. And Frigga is not mad at someone who is stealing her son's identity. She is angry because she couldn't steal it herself! 

I'm a woman of colour, I’m all for diversity and equality BUT I'm totally against replacing iconic, and beloved, characters. They are changed entirely so that writers can say their comics, books or movies are diverse. Why didn't they create an original character who represented women? Why didn't they take awesome and underused characters they already have like Sif or Brunhilde and give them their own comics? 

 Thor is  based on an actual god in Norse myth. And those of us who have read him since childhood love him, we have seen him grow, mature, love, learn, fight, sacrifice himself, cry, lose and win. When I heard them say there would be a Female Thor I just thought the Thor Odinson we know would suffer a change in his very own body, just like when he became FrogThor. And I was all for that. I remembered how Loki turned his body into one identical to Sif's in TDW and Thor took it in his stride. He even said he would kick Loki's ass in any form Loki gave him. Having a female body was not a problem for Thor. I would have loved that. But taking Thor's name, treating it as a mantle, replacing him...  SPOILERS!! Jane Foster is dead and gone now (cancer).”

Imho this is going to be a Jane!Thor film mostly. It’s quite obvious Natalie will be the protagonist but I don’t know if they’re gonna follow the comic’s tragic story line. I know Taika is an expert on tragicomedy (we saw that in “Boy”) so I’m quite sure he’s gonna combine seamlessly the tragic and funny elements of the film... unless the script is loosely based on the Mighty Thor comics just like Ragnarok was loosely based on Planet Hulk.

Plus you can tell it’s going to be primarily a funny film, right? I mean look at the logo.

It’s like the “Life of Brian” logo. (COMEDY!!1)

Or the “Conan the Barbarian” logo. (EPIC CHEESE!!1)

Maybe Thor remains overweight in the fourth installment, who knows, Taika always wanted to include a flashback scene of Thor as a chubby kid in Ragnarok.

So I hope Taika is going to take the piss at anything Marvel holds sacred even if he, as a person, is all for feminism and diversity. 

And now for my biggest concern: female Thor means there will be no room for Loki. 

Can I say that I’d hate a Thor/Jane reunion after they hilariously “dumped each other” in Ragnarok? Yeah I’d hate it if it’s all about them bickering about the way they split and who was responsible and then kissing and making up blah blah blah. How lame.

Also, Jane being the center of Thor’s attention (or Thor being reduced to a supporting character) would probably mean Loki has no place there. 

BUT... what’s giving me hope is that the Loki series will be released in spring 2021 and Thor: Love and Thunder will premiere in November 2021. It is so not a coincidence that those twin Marvel projects will arrive back to back. 

Tom says Loki is “still that guy (from ‘Avengers’). Seems there’s a lot of psychological evolution that is still yet to happen but it is one of the most exciting creative opportunities I’ve come across.”

Honestly, I don’t know what that means. Does Loki get to grow through his adventures in parallel universes and different timelines, with or without Thor? Does he miss Thor? Does he seek him out?

And if he does, which Thor does he meet? The Love and Thunder Thor, or a Thor from a parallel universe? According to the billboard behind him, he just traveled back to 1975.  Does he even care at this point?... 

I’m guessing Loki will make a tiny appearance in Love and Thunder. Not that I haven’t been disappointed by Marvel before, and it’s not like I didn’t trust the Russos blindly (just like I’m trusting Taika now) because of “The winter soldier” and “Civil war” only to be GLORIOUSLY disappointed by their mess of a story in “infinity war” and “Endgame”.

So... I want to believe yes. But after “Infinity war” and “Endgame” I’m not exactly holding my breath.

#loki #tom hiddleston #thor #thor love and thunder #taika waititi #speculation #jane foster #female thor #loki series