Another message to Webweildingavenger
Bullshit.
You are essentially arguing that if Gwen Stacy came back and the Green Goblin killed her but it was ‘different’ that’d be okay, even though it’s literally the same versions of the characters. I’m not even talking about an AU or an adaptation I’m talking about Sandman having TWO heartfelt sombee death stories in his canonical biography. This may surprise you but most people die just the once in real life, therefore that should ideally extend to fictional characters intended to be reflections of us too.
Uh huh. And just because Sandman is dying, doesn’t make this story any less bad nor intriguing. Infact, it could be a heartfelt story and one that could serve an importance later on or at least an impact.
Killing off Sandman is inherently stupid in the first place as you are removing one of Spider-Man’s more memorable villains off the table, but literally having the same concept behind the story is asinine.
I don’t see the point. Sandman could be dying. Or at least lead to something interesting that could serve Spidey and him. Something to do with that depending on what the story may take. It’s not as bad as randomly killing off characters good or evil in poor taste unlike the previous run.....
This isn’t like Hunted where killing Kraven again for starters wasn’t the same concept but more specifically was a means to an end, that end being course correcting the fact he ever came back.
Yep. That was the best part. This however is different for a story like Sandman compared to others.
With Sandman Zdarsky, as is routine with him, arbitrarily ignored whatever he wanted and ploughed on ahead with HIS version of Sandman’s death rooted in the same concept.
Same concept with an interesting idea. Whatever Flint was going through compared to his other experience, it could lead somewhere.
So what’s next?
Are we going to go ahead and accept Aunt May finding out Peter is Spider-Man again if it ignores that she already knew or indeed that she finds out after she finds him beat up and they have an issue long conversation about it? Will it be okay for Kingpin to target Aunt May prompting Spider-Man to kill him again?
None of those would likely be what Sandman had gone through. Whatever Aunt May’s death would be, it should be a satisfying and impactful end to her character.
“Really,it honestly shows you have some kind of feelings towards Zdarsky.”
a) Duh I hate his work because it sucks shit and
No, not really.
b) I can say the same of you in the opposite direction
“Ho early, his work had been great under Spidey.”
No, it absolutely has not. As I’ve pointed out time and time again it’s shit.
And your reasons weren’t good enough nor really fair and I brought up how they were. you just didn’t respond or accept it.
"Honestly, Nick Spencer is great. But,even his stuff has problems.”
Never said it didn’t. I critiqued Hunted and his second issue and his latest issue in fact and even the issue where MJ opens up to the therapy group.
Yes, he has some good stuff and great stuff. But, his strength his missing. He needs to put in more of those strength.
But there is a difference between having problems but being good on balance and killing off Sandman AGAIN, having Jameson find out AGAIN but ignoring what happened the first time he knew, establishing Spidey has a secret agent secret sister from his secret agents parents’ secret pregnancy and having an embarassing lack of knowledge about how the Cold War worked!
Stuff with Jameson was not how we wanted. But, it’s a start. And the stuff prior to it like his annual was fine enough. Teresa was one fans from what I’ve seen wanted back and were interested in see how much she could play into the mythos. infact, it would not be just Zdarsky who would find her interesting but so would Nick Spencer, Gerry Duggan, Donny Cates, and may other writers.
“Like, some of his stories aren’t strong enough. Even Hunted which had a strong beginning and end had a pretty weak middle that was holding back on things.”
The middle wasn’t weak, it had weaknesses that’s not the same thing.
Weak, Weaknesses, same thing. And if you read my previous message you would understand why. It didn’t feel like the horror survival that it could. It felt like it was holding itself back. just putting some filler HU like Vulture. The middle could’ve been stronger if it felt more like a horror survival.
Game of Thrones had a strong start but grew weak in the middle and ended weakly. The Infinity Saga had weaknesses at various points but none of the 3 phrases were weak. See the difference?
Game Of Thrones was a series with plenty of episodes that had 8 seasons. Infinity Saga had a strong beginning, middle, and end with what has been given to us. Hunted is an arc that had a strong beginning and end but had a weak middle for many reasons like it didn’t feel horrifying enough, the HUs like Vulture weren’t strong enough, the deaths in the survival weren’t hard hitting aside from Gibbon, things with Vermin before the end was bizarre, everything in the middle felt like it was holding back.
“Really, as much as Nick Spencer is bringing things back, his writing isn’t really shown the same when it comes to the level of quality like Zdarsky and even Donny Cates.”
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Okay I loves Cates and I’m not going to criticise him. His work is very strong. As strong as Spencer’s? I’d say just different, neither better nor worse. I think some of the concepts he comes up with could be communicated a little better and he ignores continuity to an extent but the continuity he ignores in his Venom run is stuff that’s already a mess anyway.
Yeah, That strong.
As for Zdarsky ***** please.
Zdarsky is a better Spider-Man writer than Spencer.
Let’s put aside how if that’s true it’s incredibly unlikely that Spencer would’ve gotten that gig instead of Zdarsky. Zdarsky was popuiar at a time when Spencer was reviled. Zdarsky had well recieved work on actual Spider-Man projects whilst Spencer merely had Superior Foes, an acclaimed book not actually about Spider-Man and circa 2018 a long since cancelled title.
How the flying fuck exactly can Zdarsky, the dude who literally IGNORED Jameson’s decades long characterization, his co-writer Slott’s own continuity regarding the mind wipe AND mere 10 year old continuity, be doing a good job?
Be better than Slott. you see, for a while, we had so much bad stuff from Slott that he basically nearly ruined everything that made the Spider-Man Mythos so unique and brilliant. Zdarsky was the guy to help fix things for a while with better writing, impactful stories, brilliant handlings of the characters, and a much more satisfying end to his run before Nick Spencer took over to fix things and bring some interesting stuff as well as Tom Taylor who mostly has some good stuff and sometimes not and Donny Cates who’ve brought some interesting things. Same with Saladin Ahmed for Miles.
Do you get it? That’s OBJECTIVELY BAD writing!
Read my previous post ontop. No, it’s not. It’s Really not.
Spencer meanwhile went ahead and refamiliarized himself with most Spider-Man stories, used that stuff and generally keeps it in line, keeping everyone in character and consistent to their established characterization.
yes, but while he does that, what I want is better and stronger writing. What he needs is to make things stronger. Because if there were ever story arcs we would expect in the near future, he needs to make them stronger. And so far, his 2099 arc seems to be that/
When he killed someone off a second time he did it with the explicit intention of fixing the fact he ever came back and acknowledging the prior time he died. The story was also different in concept to the original, not the same general idea at all.
Same with Zdarsky. But, the story with Nick Spencer was a very brilliant conclusion to Kraven and a brilliant take on the story at the end.
Zdarsky had Spider-Man go on adventures in time travel and alien crap before following up with the single most overrated Spider-Man mini/AU of all time where he systemically wrote Peter, MJ, and indeed most everyone out of character and failed to demonstrate even basic knowledge of real life history.
Aliens and other stuff. But, it did give The Tinkerer a very interesting take making him relatable to his views on humanity and an interesting backstory when he confronted Spidey at the end. Plus, the time travel stuff was very well handled bringing in some interesting stuff, emotional and impactful moments, some interesting results, and some brilliant high end struggle. The stuff was bizarre but handled well. Especially with what it’s like meeting your past self and fix all those mistakes and teaching him to be a better person.
The stuff with the Nukes was already explained and the stuff took place while the heroes were in Secret Wars.
Spencer in contrast deconstructed Peter’s character in 5 issues before reconstructing him and realigning him at the very least closer to who he is as opposed to what Slott, the BND staff and yes Zdarsky himself contorted him into for over 10 years.
No, Zdarsky did him well before Nick took over. He just made him more competent before Nick fixed his life. Like I said, woth Zdarsky, Peter
Made sacrifices for himself
made a villain a better person.
ouytbested the other heroes and foes.
fought off against a team of SWATs while they were gonna bring harm to his neighbors if he didn’t show.
turned himself in to save his Aunt May
Nearly risked his life to save all life
taught his younger self to be a better person
Gave Sandman the opportunity to have his final moments even nearly revealing himself especially since he sees the good in Flint at the end like he always had
Get treated with respect from the other heroes instead of being made fun of or look like an idiot
the final issue of his run.
stuff like that before Ni9ck took over. See what I mean when I said you ignore most pf what Zdarsky did. and compared to the likes of Slott, Waid, Bendis, and the others during BND, Zdrasky did it better. Better before Nick Spencer took over. Better before Sean Ryan took over. And as good as Donny Cates got involved.
Nick was fixing things and did some good and great things. But, compared to the strength in quality, it hasn’t picked up yet. And since his issue 29, Absolute Carnage Tie In, and first chapter of his 2099 arc, it looks like it’s starting to pick up. And what Nick needs is that level of quality in his work.
Shit dude, Spencer even USED Zdarsky’s own continuity better than he did in the Lifetime Achievement arc where he gave us a potted summation of exactly who Jameson is!
No, not really. His Jamson arc was good. But, like I said, the quality of his work needed to be stronger.
Zdarsky throughout his run has REJECTED the idea of the wider Marvel universe intruding upon Peter’s adventures and thereby making him look weaker and less competent as a result. Zdarsky WASTED a 300th issue on that and followed it up with a shitty Black Cat story.
HOW? He bested both TChalla and Hawkeye making them look like fools, he bested the Six, tried to outbest The Tinkerer, Beated Norman Osborn while trying to save his Aunt May and his younger self, made the boldest sacrifice in trying to stop The Tinkeer, made the Tinkerer into a better person connecting his essence with his, bested Norman’s police force, bested the SWAT team while he was on the run and while his neighbors were at risk from them, gave Sandmam his final moments. Please. Tell Me. How Did He Make Peter Entirely Incompetent The entire time. Because From What I’ve Seen, He Made The EXACT OPPOSSITE. I can expect a few hang ups from Nick’s take. But, neither of them were incompetent at all. it just shows you have some problems with Zdarsky overall. And whatever that is, you need to deal with that.
Also, his Black Cat story was suppose to be a gag issue. Infact, it was a Parody of Tom King’s Wedding arc of Batman and Catwoman in that exact moment Bruce proposed to Selina. Look it up.
Spencer took the Gibbon and in one issue wrote one of the best single issue Spider-Man stories of this decade. Zdarsky decided to take the Tinkerer and retcon that he WAS in fact associated with aliens, an idea so stupid Lee and Ditko distanced themselves from it and other better writers further buried that idea in the 1980s.
The Gibbon issue was good. But, Zdarsky made the thing with The Tinkerer better making him more relatable as well as getting some personal backstory he held for so long.
Shall we compare their pet projects? Okay.
Life Story vs. Superior Foes.
On the one hand a side splitting story that develops a C or D list character into a fan favourite and on the other a story that is so idiotic it thinks that that America wouldn’t simply win the Vietnam War if they had fucking superheroes on their side!
Nick made that work. So did Zdarsky, infact, many writers can make many C and D list characters better.
So….Spencer is worse than Zdarsky how again?
Not to mention btw, it’s pretty weak to try and build up Zdarsky by throwing shade at Spencer.
You make it li9ke you claim Spider-Man wasn’t better until Spencer took over which isn’t really the case especially with the @#$% Bendis, Slott, Waid, and the rest had given us before Zdarsky took over. So saying a brilliant writer handle come to fix things hadn’t existed is pretty insulting. Especially since a writer like Spencer, while he is fixing things, hasn’t reached to the level of quality it needed to be. And so far, his issue 29, Absolute Carnage, and 2099 were the strongest we’ve ever gotten in a while. I don’t hate Nick Spencer nor do I find him anything bad. What I want is that his work needs to be in the level of Quality as it should.
“Honestly, the best one he had since his first 4-5 issues of his ASM was his Absolute Carnage Tie in.”
a) There were 2 tie-in issues
Yes, both good.
b) Many people, myself would argue ASM #29 was better
29 was great. But the tie ins were an improvememt.
c) Even if one disagrees with that ASM #29 is simply different to the Absolute Carnage tie-in issues as they are distinctly different types of stories
d) Even if those WERE the best that doesn’t support any kind of argument against Spencer because 4/5 of the last 5 issues were good, just because one or two of them were the best of the bunch doesn’t discredit him. Shit the last 5 issues weren’t even BAD!
I’m not saying the last 5 were bad. The Syndicate arc was a bit weak but good. But, it’s not up to the same level of quality as issue 29, Absolute Carnage Tie In, and 2099 later on.
e) If hypothetically the Absolute Carnage tie-ins WERE the best issues he did out of the last 5 how does this devalue Spencer? Spencer made 2 issues hijacking his book due to an event, in which the inherently asinine idea of Norman as Carnage was a thing, work to exceptional effect. That doesn’t devalue him that shows you how skilled he is.
Yes, that’s what I meant when his story on that was the best. And his 2099 seems to be reaching there as well.
“Honestly,he has alot of stories to unfold in the future. And if he continues to hold back on them,then he Really needs either a co-writer or just put more thought into them.”
Please. Just cut the shit okay.
You are at this point dissing Spencer who doesn’t deserve it (’he needs a co-writer’ my ass) to build up your favourite horse.
I’m not dissing him as a writer. I Want him to be greater. I Want him to reach that level of quality. If you ignored a previous writer’s best work and said none of the stuff ever happened Before that writer showed up even though that writer’s quality is not up to par, it’s not only ignorant, but, also insulting. After all this time Spider-Man fans suffered, saying this type of @#$% is insulting. And Really, I Want Nick Spener to Reach that level of work. And if we ever get to a very important story arc or more like with some very important ones like Goblin, Kindred, Otto, and stuff, then Nick Spencer NEEDS to put in that same level of quality. otherwise the whole thing would suffer and be for nothing.
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