#him not accepting mike as will's boyfriend would make no sense and only happen for a joke that isn't even funny

[dilemmaed]

im breaking my silence: the whole "hopper would be fine with will liking boys until he realizes that means mike because he hates mike" is so unoriginal and not really true.

hopper and mike had a good relationship throughout season two. hopper saw how much mike cared for will (and he also saw it in season one, due to mike's annoying-but-persistent search for him) and how he stuck by him through his entire possession. he was even there for the shed scene where mike proclaimed that becoming will's friend was the best thing he's ever done. hopper knows how much will means to mike. he's seen how gently he treats him. he's witnessed their relationship for himself, and how devoted mike is to him.

when el returned, and mike learned that hopper had his her and lied to them, he confronts him. hopper says that it's fine if mike is upset with him, but to not blame el. ultimately, hopper just wants what's best for el. here, we begin to see that he isn't sure if mike is. in addition to this, we see their raw emotion and how he quiets mike by pulling into a hug and telling him "you're okay". he's displaying an almost fatherly comfort to this boy who is calling him a liar & a piece of shit and attacking him. nothing about this scene or this season insinuates that hopper hates mike. if anything, it shows that he cares for him.

season three is when their relationship changes. mike changes too. he's more of an asshole, not abiding by the rules hopper set for him and el, influencing her. hopper does not like how he's acting. he's doesn't approve of his relationship with el. it's nothing like how he used to be. their relationship is nothing like how he was with will. 

at the end of the season, when he says goodbye to el, hopper calls mike back and tells him to "be careful", somewhat reluctantly. mike nods. I viewed this as a reconciliation of sorts. I haven't watched season three for a bit, so correct me if I'm wrong about this.

​​​​​​​in summary, I feel like hopper knows how much mike cares for will and how it's completely unlike his relationship with el. hopper's main concern with mike was of his daughter. he would most definitely approve of will and mike. upon hearing about them and that he was gay, everything would make more sense to hopper. their relationship may return to that in season two.

#mike wheeler #jim hopper #byler #im even hoping for a hug between them that would parallel the one in season two #maybe mike apologizes for his actions in season three and hopper just pulls him into a hug and assures him that it's okay #anyway hopper has father figure potential for mike and I will die on this hill #him not accepting mike as will's boyfriend would make no sense and only happen for a joke that isn't even funny #argue with the wall #st

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

People are talking about Will's love life again on Reddit. OP is frustrated because of Will's love life (he thinks Byler is unlikely to happen and is frustrated it's too late to write a decent romance subplot with a new character), and redditors are trying to convince them that acceptance of his family and friends is all Will needs, and that it's ok for him to be single 😬

https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangerThings/comments/12yf9d5/i_cant_help_but_feel_bad_that_will_will_never_get/

It’s honestly so sad and frustrating how this is all they can envision for Will. They say stuff like, “Will’s arc is NOT about Mike liking him back (which is impossible cause Mike is straight), it’s about his friends saying they don’t hate him because he’s gay, and it’s okay to be different.”

“The entire point of Mike’s arc is that he’s straight. And even if Mike doesn’t take Will’s confession well at first- because there’s no guarantee he will-he will come around eventually, and that’s okay and even beautiful cause it’s so REALISTIC. I just love how the writers realistically portray the queer experience in the 80s.”

Let’s be real: none of these people who do the Renegade for “realism” even care about “the queer experience” in the first place. Most of them would prefer if Will wasn’t gay, and many of them complained about the show “ruining a good friendship.” Many of them don’t like Will at all, and many would be fine with Will dying. “Realism” is a cover because as long as Will doesn’t get a happy ending with the boy he loves, they can justify themselves still enjoying the show.

You even saw Melvins on Twitter back when the weird airport hug was being discussed say that it’s just “obvious” why the Duffers didn’t have Mike hug Will: because they’re saving it for the brotherly hug after Will’s inevitable rejection.

Never mind how awkward and weird and unnatural it would be for the Duffers to insert a rejection arc into Mike and Will’s bond in Season 5 after Season 4 ends with them being closer than ever and Mike using words like “we” and “team” to describe him and Will. That’s why many Melvins are convinced that Will already let go of Mike in the van and believe/are hoping the show won’t even bring up Will’s feelings in Season 5. Cause they know it wouldn’t make sense.

“Acceptance of his family and friends is all Will needs, and that it’s ok for him to be single.” But the second we suggest that El can find happiness in her found family, and it’s ok for her to be single, they start seeing red. I’ve seen multiple people say, “El has suffered so much and deserves happiness with Mike MORE than anyone,” which is hypocritical (because Will has suffered too, but many of them don’t care about Will), foolish (turning Mike’s heart into some kind of consolation prize for suffering), and an awful message all around (implying that girls need boyfriends who hero worship them to be happy).

Will ALREADY knows he is loved by his friends and family. He has a loving mom, a strong relationship with his adopted sister, close bonds with the Party, and a best friend in Mike (which is all he’s convinced he will ever be). Mike rejecting Will would not surprise Will in the slightest. Will believes Mike is madly in love with El, and he’s the one who worked to mend their relationship. So it’s not like he would randomly confess. The only way this will come up again- and it WILL- is for Mike to address the fruity elephant in the room.

They really think the boy the show made the explicit decision to emphasize saying, “I’m not gonna fall in love” (not because of any personal dating decision or individual preference, but because he’s convinced love CAN’T be for people like him) is gonna be proven correct???

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #mike wheeler i know what you are #byler endgame #stranger things

[iaminsidethedufferswalls]

Genuinely trying to think about how the duffers could satisfy Will’s gay-and-in-love-with-Mike arc in any other way besides making Byler canon without it being super offensive and homophobic.

The way I see it, there are three non-Byler possibilities that are most likely:

They kill Will before Mike can find out about his feelings

Will gets rejected

They never address Will’s love for Mike in a romantic sense again.

And now comes the part where I do a probably nonsensical rundown of the problems with each of these, I apologize in advance.

They kill Will

I assume I don’t even have to explain why this would be insanely homophobic. Refusing to ever let Will have happiness, constantly torturing him, making him in love with his (at least he thinks) straight best friend, only to then kill him?

And not only to kill him, but to have homophobic slurs hurled at him by his father, his peers, and other adults around him as well as be shamed even by his best friend for his queerness (it’s not my fault you don’t like girls!) only to never let him even say ‘I’m gay’ on-screen.

To use his love to prop up a het relationship where he is in love with one of the members. And kill him before he ever even gets to tell his best friend he is in love with him, making him the only main character who doesn’t get at least one successful romantic arc.

Honestly might be able to beat Destiel for most homophobic gay confirmation. At least Will and Castiel will get along in superhell.

Mike Rejects Will

What would even be the point of making Will in love with Mike if it’s not requited? If his queerness was always planned to be a big part of his storyline, there are so many other ways that they could do that so much more respectfully.

Give Will a boyfriend and have the arch be about Mike having a problem because ‘friends don’t lie’ and Will didn’t tell him about his boyfriend. Have no romantic arch and just make it about Will coming out. Make it about Will learning to reject the homophobia of the time and accept himself.

I understand queer people to fall in love with straight friends sometimes. It happens. But these cishet men do not have the trust of the queer community to go forward with portraying these issues respectfully.

It’s not ‘oh, look, an accurate queer experience being respectfully shown on-screen for the benefit of the queer audience!’, it comes off to queer people as ‘look at this pathetic queer, isn’t his gay little life miserable?’. 

Queer people know it’s hard to be queer sometimes. We don’t need a (slap in the face) reminder from people who have never had to experience our struggles.

They Just Drop The Storyline and Don’t Address It Again

Gotta say, out of all of these this one is the least likely. It is completely unparalleled in the amount of oversight, shitty writing, and just altogether disregard for Will’s character.

Imagine if they really foreshadowed Will’s feelings for Mike since SEASON 1 and then in season four actually have them on-screen (while still refusing to openly state them, but that’s a post for another day) only to immediately drop the story and pretend he’s not hopelessly in love with his best friend any more after his love has served the heterosexual storyline.

I desperately want to believe the suffer brothers have the wherewithal and literary competence to not do this. But I don’t want to get my hopes up.

Fourth Surprise Option

After the doom and gloom of the last one, I’ll say that I genuinely believe that Byler would be the best narrative choice, and definitely not impossible/off the table. I hope the suffers do the right thing and (in my own personal opinion) the best thing for the story.

#byler analysis #byler #will byers #stranger things #mike wheeler #will byers deserves better #mike wheeler i know what you are #should I tag this byler doubt? #my posts

[purpleangelsele]

Since there’s a post using very tired arguments I’ll just talk about it.

From what I say onwards is my opinion and anyone can disagree, this is just my observations and opinions on what actually happened in the show.

Side note: If your post is clearly anti mileven, do better in censoring and tagging your shit because it still shows up in the tag.

Okay? Moving on…

——-

Okay so let’s start with this section.

So there’s this problem that B*lers have with not stating it’s their opinion first and foremost. Because they state that El “clearly” didn’t believe Mike when he said I love you…but where’s the exact confirmation? That sentence alone is an opinion that is not based on facts or even context. And apparently Mike idealizes El?

The same Mike that was worried she was draining herself way too much for everyone else, the one from the very beginning that said “she’s not a dog.”, the one that said “no, you’re not a monster, you saved me. You saved me.” But he’s idealizing her? He clearly states that he loves her with or without her powers. That is factual and from the show.

El doesn’t believe she is a superhero anymore because of the way she views herself. It is why she pulls away from Mike because she would hurt more if Mike saw her as monster, but Mike never saw her a monster just who she was. Personally, I think her powers make her a selfless superhero at times, she is always saving everyone and the world from danger.

So about the argument scene. El crying in front of Mike is not just because their relationship, it’s everything that happened yesterday, with hopper being gone, Angela showing up and humiliated her, and she hit back. but because she let her anger get the best of her, she’s feeling like a monster because of it. Her flashbacks to kids dead covered in blood with Brenner asking what she’s done, triggers her downward spiral internally. Which makes it harder for her to see clearly how Mike doesn’t view her as a monster.

If someone was sobbing in front of me, begging me to say I love you to them, I would be shocked and not immediately say I love you because then it wouldn’t seem genuine. Also her emotions are fully controlling her so hearing I love you wouldn’t have made anything better. She could have just said it was a lie or think he’s lying because she’s not in the right headspace to accept those words in that moment. That’s what I think. Obviously I have no idea what is going on in their minds but I can guess.

Mike was dealing with deep self-esteem issues and considering he’s been bullied his whole life, he thought he might not be needed anymore, because she didn’t tell him about her situation and he doesn’t know if he’s a good boyfriend for not even noticing her going through it. But he only had letters and he believed what she said in them. Both of them are not to blame, they are two teenagers still navigating this crazy world they live in where the upside down resides.

I believe that, Mike cares and loves El in a romantic sense because both of them felt like outcasts but understood each other when no one else would. Yes they have shared trauma but their relationship is far deeper and has a foundation set by a literal ride or die friendship.

Alsooo, remember when I said some annoying B*lers thought it would be hilarious if we thought Mike meant what he said?

Yeahhh. That’s exactly what I was talking about. Proving my point once again.

I personally don’t see how Mileven was a mess. Maybe I’m too biased but I’m pretty sure they’re the healthiest couple on the show. Even when they were broken up (briefly), they never stopped being considerate of the other and being there for the other person. Mike said “it’s a fight you cannot come back from.” And that makes me think.. wow that’s such a teenage thing to say, because any argument when you’re in relationship feels final but it wasn’t, because I think El still loves him and is willing to work things out with him, but it’s going to take some time. It doesn’t mean they’re a mess, they just have way too much to deal with, aside from their relationship. Like Hawkins falling apart, and Vecna still alive but hurt. Call it wishful thinking but I’m not worried about their relationship.

Now, this same old opinion that has been circling since season 4 “ El was distant from Mike after the Speech.” Again considering what happened in the show, it’s understandable that El isn’t in the speaking mood. She just found out Max was in a coma and couldn’t find her anywhere in her mind. That can mess with her mental state especially because El feels like she failed Max.

But don’t forget that she wasn’t denying physical touch and closeness with Mike during the hospital scene with Max. They stood side by side and she was wearing what I assume is a hoodie of Mike’s. And automatically she leans against his shoulder while he rubs her shoulder briefly. That does not signal to me that she’s planning to breakup with him because she can still think about taking down Vecna but want the relationship with Mike in tact.

El being independent has been the whole show. She’s been alone since her birth, considering she was builled by other kids and escaped by herself and only had herself to rely on until she met Benny, and then the party. She gets separated from the party at the end of season 1, she stays in the woods by herself for about a month I think. Then Hopper takes her in but she’s still so isolated and alone because she can’t interact with her friends in fear of Brenner finding her. And then In Season three she gets to spend more time with Max and got to know her better. In season 4, she’s separated from Mike in handcuffs, and then by Dr.Owens taking her to Nina. She spends majority of the season alone because she was learning more about herself and getting back her abilities in the process. When they finally reunite it feels amazing and both of them are just elated to see eachother alive.

El can be independent and still be the one to save everyone because Mike is not the one with powers here, she can take care of herself and she’s shown that time and time again.

Mike Wheeler is more than El’s boyfriend. He is the leader of the party, the one that comes up with plans and follows through. He’s also the one that comes up with plans that help El or like season 4, find her location. He is dealing with untreated trauma, watching El “die” in front of him, talking to his Walkie-Talkie and feeling her there but feeling crazy for thinking that. His family situation(enough said). The way school has affected him in terms of the cliques and the bullies. Then there’s the Upside down and the constant fear that he’ll lose the person he loves to Vecna. He’s so much more than her boyfriend, he is a fully-fleshed out character that deserves more respect and honestly, I hope to see him grow more in season 5.

Is there any confirmation that they are miserable with eachother? No? Then don’t say it as a common fact. El deserves to be loved unconditionally and Mike does love her unconditionally, that’s why he takes their conversations more seriously, that’s why he’s different than his dad, he actually thinks on what he said and how it affected El. And he works on himself to be better and more open about his feelings especially with El. And Mike did say I love you to someone, El.

In the show, he said I love you. Personally, I think that type of post is dismissing the complexity of their relationship and is only scratching the surface of it. Also love the cherry pickiness of scenes that are twisted in such a negative way that I never would have thought upon viewing it the first time.

At the end of the day this is my perspective. I’m not posting this to change anyone’s minds. I just want people to read this and at least understand why I think this way. Instead of being sheep, develop your own opinions about the ships in context of the show and if you don’t then that’s okay, Fanon is cool too. It’s only problematic when Fanon is treated as Canon facts.

That’s all. Thank you for reading the whole post!!

-Sel💜

#mileven #mike wheeler #el hopper #mike x el #stranger things #anti byler #my post #my thoughts #selwrites

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

Bylers argue that the Duffers wouldn’t write a whole dramatic crush arc for Will if it was just going to be one-sided, but haven’t they already done that? Steve with Robin in Season 3 and Dustin with Max in Season 2? One of the main plot points the was Steve falling for Robin and then building up the confidence to confess his feelings, and Lucas and Dustin were both vying for Max. I don’t want Will to be rejected by his childhood best friend, but one-sided love is pretty common in coming-of-age stories regardless of sexuality. How can we be sure that’s not what’s happening now? And with Robin, some of the things she said throughout the season gave Steve false hope his love would be reciprocated so some of Mike’s confusing behavior could fall into that category potentially. And technically, if Byler becomes canon, that makes El’s love for Mike a one-sided love as well. And it’s not like she has another love interest lined up either. Either way, someone will be hurt. Thoughts?

You have to be careful with comparisons. It can be too easy to compare unlike things.

The Mike/Will dynamic can't be compared to Steve/Robin or Dustin/Max. Those two one-sided romances were all built up and resolved within a single season. With Mike and Will, though, there's been a slow development since season 1 that just hasn't been resolved. It's not one-sided on Will's part. Mike repeatedly gets emotional because of Will, and he can never seem to stay angry at him. He treats Will much differently than he treats anyone else, El included. Will's situation is more obvious, I suppose, because we've been told more explicitly, but Mike's behavior is more romantically charged than Will's.

So, I present your question back to you: why would the Duffers spend four seasons showing Mike and Will's developing the way it has if it was going to be one-sided?

I don't know what they're doing with El, but her relationship with Mike has never been presented as good after they actually got together. It's not because it's a "typical teen romance" or whatever people try to claim. No, that's Max and Lucas' issue, which they seem to be resolving. Mike and El are just forcing a relationship where there's no real love, like Mike's parents did. It makes more narrative sense, based on how they've built it, if they realize that their love is not of the romantic sort.

However they go about resolving Mike and El's situation, it shouldn't involve El needing Mike's love. It would diminish her own personal growth, between Max telling her she needs to "try things on" and Brenner telling her she needs to accept all of who she is. If she just goes back to relying on Mike, all of that is undone.

People like to point out that "why should Will's story revolve around Mike's love if El's doesn't?"

Well, it's a matter of how things are set up. Both of their stories already revolve around Mike, though El at least has other elements, while Will doesn't (for now). El has more problems and does not act like herself when she's with Mike, and the same is true for Mike. Will is generally happier and more himself when he's with Mike, and the same is true for Mike.

It actually comes down to Mike himself. Mike isn't as happy with El as he wants everyone, including El, to think. It shows, though, and it has an affect on his relationship with her. His relationship with Will suffers, too, and not just because Will is jealous. Mike simply treats Will differently when he's with El, only to revert to "real Mike" when he's not trying to be El's boyfriend.

So, again, ask yourself why they're doing all of this if it's just to have Mike and El get back together? They might punt the resolution into season 5, but Mike and El are not happy together, and it'd be unrealistic if they suddenly were.

#stranger things 4 #byler #mike wheeler #jane hopper #eleven #will byers

[demadogs]

Do you think it may happen that Mike friendzones Will? :(

no!!! and lemme tell you why! and if im wrong i will EAT the duffers!!

ok one huge thing is the posters

el broke up with mike in s3 and shes looking away from him. if mike didnt feel the same way about will i really really think he wouldnt be looking back at him. the fact that theyre both looking at each other means something is going on between both of them.

2. will is overdue for a love interest. if it wasnt mike we would have already met his love interest. will is gay. most the general audience has picked up on this already. if there were any chance of him having a boyfriend whos not mike we would have met him this season at the latest but all the new male characters this season arent in his age range. and there’s no way they’d just give him some random underdeveloped character for a boyfriend that we dont meet until the last season.

3. going off of that i don’t think they’ll make will be rejected bc he has suffered so much already from all the upside down trauma. there is no reason to make him suffer even more by being rejected by the person he’s in love with. he actually already feels like he has been rejected after being ignored so much in s3 and mike saying “its not my fault you dont like girls” making will think there is no way mike isnt straight.

4. this frame!

no i will not stop talking about this frame. this is more evidence that mikes gay than the fact that he likes will but theres no way theyd make mike gay and still reject will. what would the point of that be. anyways this still is framed so that mike is not only in a closet, but also the edge of the closet perfectly divides their kiss, meaning the reason he’s not kissing her back and doesnt say he loves her back is because hes in the closet. this also proves he’s gay not bi.

5. what we know about s4 so far all makes sense for byler. finn playing a “more emotional mike” and that they gave him some “really hard hitting stuff”? that would make sense if he has his sexuality crises this season. noah describing the season as “unexpected and romantic”? it seems like almost all of what he shot this season was with finn and the rest of the california crew so it wouldnt make sense for him to be talking about jopper or something else here bc he didnt work with them this season. also no one would describe jopper as unexpected. he must be talking about mike and will. and if mike turned him down he wouldnt call it romantic.

6. lastly, i think another big reason we havent seen as much obvious queer coding for mike as we do with will is that he also doesnt really know hes gay. will seems to have accepted that hes gay, especially considering he does his school project on alan turning, but it would make sense for a kid growing up in 80s suburbia to completely suppress any “abnormal” thoughts of sexuality to avoid admitting they might not be straight and thats whats happening to mike. this is why his queer coding is more technical things like framing him so that he’s in a closet as opposed to will who blatantly expresses his jealousy of mike and el to his face.

#if you read just one point of this whole thing make it number 6 #stranger things #byler tumblr #byler #eden answers

[apatheticlexicographer]

i’m a firm believer in the “m!leven break up in v2 but byler don’t get together til s5″ agenda. i feel like jumping directly out of a relationship with el and straight into one with will wouldn’t be a great idea for mike, even if his heart wasn’t really in m!leven. what i’d like to see this season would be him and el breaking up and him coming to terms with his sexuality. i don’t think he needs a boyfriend right now this very second; i think he needs some time to process and learn to understand himself better, same as el. will seems to have pretty much accepted himself, but mike really hasn’t, and i don’t think it would be fair to either of them to immediately jump into a relationship before he feels more secure in his identity, or only just after he’s begun acknowledging his sexuality. i wouldn’t be unhappy if byler got together in v2, but i would be surprised, and a little concerned about how their relationship would be portrayed in s5 with regards to mike’s internalised homophobia.

even if the duffers decided to be cringe and go for m!leven endgame i still think they should break up this season bc i can’t see their relationship getting any healthier without a break. if they each had a good amount of self discovery and then decided to get back together then i don’t really think it would make narrative sense and it would probably be the most egregious bit of queerbating that netflix has ever done, but it would be a damn sight better character progression wise than them just staying together for the duration of the show.

also from a more real-world perspective, if m!leven are broken up by the end of s4 it gives netflix a good couple of years to go absolutely batshit bananas with the love triangle, ‘who’s gonna end up with mike’ marketing and i don’t think they’d pass that up.

EDIT :

as an aside, the majority heterosexual general audience is probably gonna need the next couple of years to accustom themselves to the idea that byler might happen. sure, it’s obvious to us, but a lot of them don’t even realise or at least don’t acknowledge that will is gay, let alone have the slightest inkling about mike’s sexuality. it wouldn’t be coming out of nowhere, but to the large audience who are conditioned to expect straight relationships and are only watching the show casually, it would seem that way. the duffers might not care what people think but the netflix execs definitely do. they’ve only just started the byler marketing after v1, and considering ST is basically netflix’s flagship show i’m sure they’re going to be handling the whole thing very carefully internally. a month’s worth of fairly subtle marketing mostly targeted at the people who care enough about the show already to follow official accounts isn’t enough to break through the straight-tinted glasses.

#byler #not sure how cohesive this is i'm just rambling #will byers #mike wheeler #stranger things #i want them to get together but i want mike to feel more secure abt his identity first #if he was a shitty bf to will in s5 because his internalised homophobia made him paranoid i would go FERAL and not in a good way #obviously i'm not expecting him to be out and proud to the whole of hawkins #but he doesn't give me the impression that he's mentally ready to be in a queer relationship in the 80s just yet #i could be wrong ofc and tbh i'd be happy if i was #but i'm nervous about how the duffers would portray a whole SEASON of them dating while possibly still closeted from their friends

[itwasacidental]

“Happy Birthday.” ETN Rosanna Pansino Birthday Angst.

Hello, everyone! (Or whoever's reading this at the moment), the story is about what the title is. This prompt is by amugoffandoms. Thank you again for letting me use one of your prompts. I swear I'll think if my own now I promise. ^^"But anyways, enjoy!

He always dreaded this day would come. He tried to pretend that it had already passed now. He dreaded today more than any other. Ro's birthday. He stared at photos of them both for hours in his recording closet, even though he wasn't recording anything. God he wished she was here. So much. He would do anything to see her again. Just one time. He decided to make her a cake. Nothing too major, since he didn't really know how to bake, really. It was only because of her. He only remembered one recipe by heart, which was the chocolate Jurassic Park they made together. Matt slightly glanced at Rosanna's cookbook in his dark closet. It was dark, but he knew exactly where it was. He put it in here to try and forget about it, but obviously he couldn't. He sighed deeply and stood up, leaving the closet with a slam of a door. 

He had to adjust his eyes for a moment from the setting sun, shielding his eyes a bit from it. After a few seconds he went to his kitchen and got all of the ingredients for the cake. Luckily he had all of them. From things they normally would have to stuff lying around, and from food theories and things like that. Stephanie walked up to her husband with a bittersweet smile, before pulling him into a hug. She didn't say anything to him. She just wanted to make sure he knew that she was there for him. Matt on the other hand was not surprised by the hug, he was sort of expecting it. He embraced her, immediately trying to stop himself from crying by blinking his eyes rapidly. Unfortunately he wasn't able to hold them for long as they started to fall down his cheeks. Stephanie comforted him, patting his back and whispering slight 'it's okay's to him.

Matt pulled away and sniffled, his tears staining his eyes and cheeks, even his shirt. Stephanie wiped his tears away, kissing him on the cheek. She offered to help him with making the cake and Matt accepted, getting everything ready. Together, they both made the Jurassic cake, and stared at it for a bit. He zoned out for a while, trying to make sense of what was happening at the moment. He couldn't believe that she was still gone. Steph brought him back to life, tapping him on the shoulder. He sniffled, wiping his eyes once again. He quickly cut a slice and packed it up, and kissed his wife. He told her that he was going, and left. She waved him goodbye and closed the door. She didn't suggest going this time, thinking Matt needed some time to himself now. 

While he was out, he went by a florist shop and grabbed an assortment of roses, before leaving to a place he thought he'd never visit again. Her grave. He walked up to it, noticing Mike, her boyfriend, was there. He walked up to him, waving slightly. They both exchanged hellos before it went completely silent. They both stared at the tombstone below them, as Matt set the roses down. There was a bit more silence until Matt decided to speak. “How.. how long have you been here..?” he asked, glancing at the blonde slightly. “All day,” he responded, wiping his eyes. “Some family came with me but they're gone now. As you can see.” he sniffled, fiddling with his hands. Matt remembered about the cake he bought from home and turned towards Mike. “Here. Have this. It's her recipe.” the brunette handed the cake to him as the other male accepted. “Thank you.” he muttered, smiling a bit at the gift. “Did you use her recipe book?” Mike brought up. Matt shook his head. “No, I remembered it, surprisingly.” he shrugged. “Don't know how I managed to.” 

Mike nodded in response, before sitting down shortly after. Standing was getting a bit too unbearable for him, since he'd been standing here all day. Matthew joined him, crossing his legs. More time passed on, as Matt stared at the tombstone and the roses back and forth. “Happy Birthday, Ro.” he says quietly, tears starting to fall down his face again. 

#matpat #rosanna pansino #matthew patrick #stephanie patrick #mike lamond #angst #short story #after etn

[arvandus]

Stranger Things Thoughts:

I’ve been rewatching Stranger Things for the first time and I’m now on season 3.  Here are some of my hot takes:

- Season 1 was truly fantastic. The best season.  The way they built up the suspense and the mystery... I was scared all over again even though I knew everything, which was a testament to its quality.

- Still pissed at Nancy for ignoring her friend who was obviously miserable and uncomfortable just so she could hang out with her boyfriend. I would NEVER.

- Bob deserved better.

- There’s a definite vibe change in the setting from season 2 to season 3 and I’m not sure how I feel about it.

- Joyce is an absolute beast and I fucking love her; she’s probably the closest character to me emotionally. It’s that mom energy - the way she cares for El in season 1 and her tiger mom vibes for Will... I can relate deep in my soul.

- Poor Will deserves better. He’s suffered so much!

- The confrontation between Will and Mike in Season 3, where Mike says, “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!” and Will gets this wide-eyed look... THAT was the moment.  That was the moment when it clicked for Will why he was so jealous of El and Mike. It was the first time he finally understood what his feelings *meant* which was probably a big part of why he ran away, hid away in his hide-out, called himself “stupid” and then took a bat to everything. And then tried to brush the whole conflict off as “not a big deal” when it obviously WAS a big deal. Poor boy realized he was gay and wanted to bury that shit waaayyy deep so one one could find it.

- On a side note, I can only imagine what Will might have been thinking... he’d been taken the upside down where he almost died, was pretty much impregnated against his will (recall the baby Demogorgon he coughed up??) possessed, and the Mindflayer STILL has some hold on him because he can sense him when he’s active.  And with the way that homosexuality was treated in the 80s, I’m sure he thought he was a monster, a freak, that maybe the feelings he had for his best friend were wrong and vile.  That they were something that was the result of what he’d gone through, something that was done to him, rather than it being a very natural and acceptable part of who he was as a person.  THIS POOR BOY I CAN’T RIGHT NOW.

- Mike started out as such a good character but each season has gotten progressively worse and it makes me so sad...

- I remember El’s abilities being so badass when I first saw them; but now on the rewatch, they’ve lost their impact for me because I’m so used it (and it’s very overdone every season - can she level up...? Like... at all?).

- Steve and Nancy never really had a breakup...? Like... wtf was that?  They had a fight during the party and the day after... but like... an actual breakup wasn’t established? And then Nancy hooked up with Jonathan?  Excuse me, but what??

- I miss season 3 Robin when she was less chaos incarnate and more smart, snarky nerd.

- Steve and his bat are the OTP.

- I like all the scenes that have the clock ticking sounds... it all ties it in together which I enjoy.

- Season 3 Hopper is SO FLAWED but tbh I appreciate it because it’s important for his character development.

- On a side note, the running theme of his abuse of his power as chief of police makes me cringe a little thanks to real life events. I know it’s just a show and we as the audience know he’s the good guy so his actions are ‘justified,’ but still... the overall theme of “I can do what I want because of my authority” has not aged well, imo.

- I’m not looking forward to season 4 because I know what’s going to happen and I’m not ready for that pain again....

#Arvandus rambles #Stranger Things

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

maybe this has been said but with the robin/vickie stuff, we have a canon lesbian who is canonically in love with someone who is in a hetero-presenting relationship, making the ga think its a deadend. we see so much pining and then the giving up but Steve told her he has hope.. its revealed vickie broke up with her boyfriend and now its set up where you have to have not watched the last scene to think this isnt happening..

comparing to byler, we have will who is canonically gay and in love with mike, who is in a hetero-presenting relationship to the ga and a lot believe this is the end of where will's feelings would go. however we still have a lot of pining.. from both sides... and then we have will's 'giving up' (not sure on the wording but its sort of like he's accepting that mike isnt like him just like how robin didnt believe vickie could like girls) we then see Jonathan step in a bit like Steve does and comforts will. then again, the final scene is so byler foreshadow-y that the only way you think it isnt happening is if you didnt watch the scene

Yes most definitely! I’m obsessed with this parallel, and ironically, I took a screenshot of this comment on an anti Byler post earlier today:

Some people are so close to getting it, but for whatever reason, they don’t press any further. Yes, what we are describing IS very similar to the Rockie situation because we’re meant to see the parallels lol. Not just in a general “oh this is kinda similar” sense, but down to the exact framing:

Other than Will being blurry in this picture, this is the exact same shot, down to the placement of the characters. The gay character (Robin, Will) is in the middle looking longingly at their presumed heterosexual love interest (Mike, Vicki) embracing their current girlfriend/boyfriend (El, Dan). When Robin looks at Vicki and her boyfriend, she and the audience get a sinking feeling in their chest because we assume it’s unrequited, but Steve refuses to lose hope, and Steve turns out to be right because Vicki is bi. In the case of Will, both Will and most of the general audience still assume Mike is straight and that Will’s feelings are unrequited, but the story is incomplete. And if Vicki ended up being queer, what can we infer about Mike???

Then you have the presumed heterosexual love interest of the gay character turn to look at the gay character with some degree of guilt and sadness in their eyes. For Mike, we see all of Finn’s amazing microexpressions, almost like he’s processing both Will and El in the same space and feeling conflicted about his feelings before he says, “Everyone’s here,” and the Willel reunion happens. For Vicki, her boyfriend asks her who that was and she says, “Someone from band,” but there are more emotions swirling underneath, and this becomes clear when Rockie finally has their romantically-charged conversation at the end of the season. Rockie is obviously endgame. And if so, what does does that say about Byler???

Likewise, you’re so right, the final scene of the season (as well as the cabin scene, honestly) play a similar role in establishing Byler going forward, even though there’s a lot more work to be done next season with the painting and everything:

And I hadn’t even thought about comparing Jonathan to Steve, but Jonathan’s life-giving convo with Jonathan does play a similar narrative role as Steve’s convo with Robin. You’re so right.

There’s no way these parallels are accidental. So in conclusion:

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #byler endgame

[jonathangoodbyers]

these are my thoughts on the bullshit

eddies death made me cry for the first time in nearly two years and i am a master of repressing my emotions so great cool

eddie is a goddamn moron for dying like that and im mad at him

im going to construct intricate fantasies in my head so he stops being dead there at least

lame and gay that they only had dustin and wayne munson actually visibly mourning him, as if he wasn't also friends with mike.

WILL BYERS: come get a hug baby. him telling mike about his own feelings but pretending that it was eleven who felt those things -> made me very upset. will has been crying a lot and he doesn't deserve it at all. will is so deeply and tragically in love with mike it breaks my heart

steve??? his ending here is basically that he confesses to nancy and then nothing? LAME.

its good that steve acknowledges his own growth and it being spurred by nancy but that doesn't mean that they were like ,, destined to be together. why couldn't he just be like hey thanks for making me see that i was an asshole and ive changed for the better, lets be friends?

jonathan is still lying to nancy about the college thing??? after AAALLL of that??? also lame

what happened to dmitri and yuri. did they just drop off joyce, hopper and murray and then flew back to russia together? are they hanging out? are they going back to their families? who knows not me

season 4 is the season of Max Suffering

and she doesn't deserve iiittt

it did think that she was gonna die for a minute there but im sure she'll make a comeback next season somehow.

i do have a sneaking feeling she might be permanently blind

maybe its because i never got over billy but i think it's a shame that max wasn't really able to work through her trauma abt it with vecna after all. obv she did get some closure in "dear billy" but the last thing she said regarding him was 'yea sometimes i prayed he would die in a car crash and also im suicidal now' like?? she was saying that to bait henry into getting her but i feel like it might've been nice if later on she had tried to resist by saying she did miss billy in some way. like ooh henry you were wrong actually about me being glad that billy is dead bc thats not entirely true !! i mean i think she has very conflicting feelings about him. like yea she did hate him but she also loved him in a way and that can coexist.

i need to stop talking about billy sorry

couldn't anyone give poor dustin some crutches? that boy is limping.

jason dying unceremoniously by just burning up from the earth opening? good. he deserves it a little bit kind of. like yea he didnt understand what was going on but god that boy was annoying.

brenner dead? also good. hes been nothing but a menacing creep since the beginning of the show and im glad he's gone. love that eleven didnt give him the satisfaction of saying that she understood why he did what he did. just love that for her.

where the fuck did that sword come from that hopper used to kill the demogorgon??

robin and vickie 🥰🥰🥰

i knew Vickie's boyfriend wasn't gonna last after that one scene that he was in.

lucas :(((

watching him hold max while she was dying was so painful. so. she better get back thats all im saying

henry?? annoying ass bitch.

i feel like his character is about rejection, being unloved and only seeing the worst in people because of it. which is whyyy it would make sense if his ending was about accepting that people can be good and bad, guilty and innocent. that having done bad things doesn't ruin you as a person, bc thats what he keeps trying to show his victims, that they ARE bad people for their guilt and trauma. a satisfying resolution would be about convincing him to see the good in people. but his ending will probably be more along the lines of big explosion fireball eleven screaming.

eleven and max's friendship >>>>>

el better get her bestie back.

okay those are all my thots so far

#stranger things spoilers #st4 #eddie munson #max mayfield #eleven #stranger things #steve harrington

[briamichellewrites]

28

Brie’s album, Wild At Heart was finally released. She flew to Nashville to promote it on CMT. Mike didn’t want her to go by herself because he didn’t want anything to happen to her or the babies. She assured him that she could fly up to twenty-eight weeks pregnant. He made her text him when she landed safely, so he didn’t worry. She promised to do that. Her obstetrician gave her instructions on how to fly while pregnant and how to keep herself and the babies comfortable.

Hey. I just landed in Nashville. – Brie

When she checked in at the hotel and got to her room, she texted him again with the update. Phoenix, Brad, and Chester could tell he was very anxious. He kept his phone beside him all day, just in case something happened. They would be anxious, too. But, they couldn’t keep her in bubble wrap just because she was pregnant. They had to let her go.

Brad invited him over to hang out with him, Elisa, and the kids. He accepted the invitation because it would help him keep distracted. It was also better than sitting at home. The kids were busy playing when Brad and Mike got to the house. Elisa had Evan, who was two years old on her hip. She looked like she was on her last leg with the kids. He laughed and asked what he needed to do. She handed him, Evan, while she went back to the kitchen to make dinner.

Daddy! They said hello to her. It was a busy house. Mike could see Brie waiting for him to get home, so he could help her with the kids. He would gladly take over, especially if she had been with them all day. Elisa had a job where she could work from home. That meant juggling her work with taking care of the kids and housework. They had a lot of respect for what their wives went through at home.

They were the reason why they could go out on tour and spend hours in the studio. Evan was telling her daddy everything she did that day. He was very interested in what she was telling him. Noa and Jonah were playing in the living room with their toys. They sat down and joined them.

“This is going to be your life in a couple of years”, Brad joked.

He laughed. “I can’t wait. I’m sure Brie is going to hand me the kids the second I walk in the door.”

“Oh, I bet.”

“Daddy, when the babies coming”, Noa asked.

“What babies? Brie and Mike’s babies?”

Yeah. They weren’t coming for a few months. They had to grow in her tummy first. Can they see them? Yeah, when they were born, they could ask about seeing them. What their names? They didn’t know yet because they hadn’t decided. Brad asked if Chester had any names he picked out. Yeah, he suggested Lila Rose and Lily Grace. They both thought they were beautiful names.

They were beautiful! Brie was thinking about including her French heritage, so she was going back and forth. Was she going to teach the twins French? Oh, yeah. They were likely going to be multilingual in English, French, and Japanese. She wanted names that were French but sounded English because she knew the frustration of people not being able to spell her name correctly. Over the years, she developed a sense of humor around her name but it took a lot of time for her to become okay with it.

“She said it had been misspelled B-r-e-e throughout her childhood, even though she went to a French immersion school. Then some people asked if it was short for Brianne, Brianna, or Aubrey.”

“I’ve gotten that. People ask if my name is short for Bradley. Nope, Bradford”, he said with a laugh.

Mike discussed coming out to the band for transparency. Phoenix and Brie encouraged him to do it but only if he felt comfortable. They would not push him because it was a decision he had to make. He wanted to do it because then, he wouldn’t feel like he was lying to them. They would support him, he knew that. He just had to gain the confidence to tell them he was gay.

Was he going to tell Brie’s parents? Yeah. He was going to do that when they flew in for her baby shower. Phoenix quietly asked Brie about asking Mike to be his boyfriend. She replied that she was all for it! They have already headed in that direction, anyway. He thanked her and told her he loved her. I love you too. With that, he asked him about it on their next date. He was so happy that he said yes immediately! Phoenix laughed because he was so adorable. He then kissed him.

Together, they would come out as a couple to the band. With Brie in Nashville, they decided to do it. During a break, Phoenix announced he and Mike were dating. What about Brie? They were in an open marriage and they had her blessing. Mike took that opportunity to come out as gay. Chester congratulated him, as did the rest of the band. He thanked them.

He wanted to be transparent with them because he didn’t want to hide who he was. It didn’t matter if he was gay or straight or bisexual. They loved him the same way, just like they did with Phoenix.

Yep, I know that they’re dating. Phoenix asked me privately if I was okay with him asking Mike to be his boyfriend. I told him to go for it! I told Mike I’m not leaving him because I love him too much. The only thing I asked for was an open marriage and he gave me that. We did set up rules and boundaries for both of us. Anyway, long story short. Yeah, I know and I’m one hundred percent okay with it. – Brie

Brad thanked her for clarifying that. He was a little suspicious about her supposedly agreeing to an open marriage. Then again, she was more open-minded than he was. She posted a picture of her with Keith Urban backstage at CMT studios where she had given an interview for her new album. Along with a performance of her new single, A Little Country, A Little Rock n Roll. It was about who she was as a person and her personality. He thought she was beautiful, so he gave her his phone number.

The band treated Mike and Phoenix the way they usually did, although they joked about them dating. It wasn’t malicious, just brotherly love. They were able to laugh about it and joke back. The band was happy that they could be happy with who they were.

Was he nervous about talking with Bruce and Patti? Yeah, he was. They would accept him. He was just nervous. Phoenix was going to be there to assist him and introduce himself. Baby shower. Brie was five months pregnant. Time was going by so quickly. They had to prepare the nursery, go over her birth plans, plan with his parents about helping out while he was on tour, and a million other things.

Before he knew it, he would be holding his twin daughters at the hospital. Was he nervous? Oh yeah. He was going to be a great father. That was what he kept telling himself.

Brie and Keith were texting back and forth. It started out friendly but turned to flirting. He was too old for her but she thought he was like fine wine. That made him laugh to himself. She knew what to say to a man to make him want her. What about her husband? He noticed the ring on her finger. We’re in an open marriage. She was leaving the next morning. The next time she was in Nashville, she invited him to her hotel room.

I’ll have to listen to your music until I see you again. – Brie

Every song is for you. Just listen to my voice and I’ll be there. – Keith

@zoeykaytesmom @feelingsofaithless @alina-dixon @fiickle-nia @boricuacherry-blog

[werenotadulting]

Routine Procedure - Finale

Author's note - Hope you enjoyed!

Part 7 - Kate

If you'd asked her, Kate wouldn't have been able to tell what exactly had gotten her interested in it.

Maybe it was the idea of the power dynamic. She had always been one of those girls labeled as 'bossy' growing up, which was a misogynistic way of saying that she wasn't afraid to speak up and speak her mind.

Or maybe it was the subversion of expectations of a traditional relationship that did it for her. The idea that she was the one in control, the one making all the decisions.

Maybe it was the fact that it was so taboo and kinky that appealed to her. It didnt really matter, whatever the reason.

Kate was into being a Mommy Domme, and Kate found nothing hotter than having a diapered little bitch boy to call her own.

The ultimate fantasy was teaching the boy to love and trust his diapers. Make him associate orgasming with wet diapers and diaper changes. Create a leaking "accident" in public so he learns that while thicker diapers might increase the risk of being noticed, they save you from the embarrassment of wet pants.

Of course, she had considered bringing up her desires to Mike, but based off of past experiences, she didn't want to chance it. Mike was just too perfect of a guy to risk blowing it like that.

She had always been the dominant one in bed, with Mike eagerly submitting to her every whim, so she knew they were sexually compatible. It had never gone past light bondage though, and Kate was starting to get an itch that handcuffs and blindfolds just wouldn't scratch.

────────

It had come up entirely by chance, one day while she was scrolling through an obscure ABDL forum.

The post read: "Biomedical engineer here, and I think I've figured out a way to induce instant, semi-permanent incontinence."

The post was over 3 days old, and only had two comments on it. The first was from a mod, basically saying to take everyone's posts with a grain of salt. The second was from the OP, about 24 hours after the original post.

"I know it sounds like a fantasy, but I'm pretty confident it will work. I've had a career in medical devices for the last 8 years, specializing in the urology space. I don't want to get too deep into the details on here, so just PM me of you're interested."

Kate rolled her eyes.

Everyone in this community is so hooked on the 'I want to be instantly incontinent' thing, and all it ever ends up being is some silly fap content, she thought to herself.

"You know what, let's feed the troll and see what bites," she muttered.

Liv2DomU: ok spill, what's your magical method?

PrinceOfPadding: this for you, or someone else?

Liv: hypothetically, let's say it's for a boyfriend

Prince: Ahh okay. Very interesting. Well, like I said, I've worked in med device for awhile, and I've recently started my own company. I primarily work in the urology space, catheters, scopes, that kind of stuff.

Liv: hmm hate to break it to u bud, but catheters kinda already exist

Prince: oh sure, catheters exist, but my idea is to bridge the catheter world with the stent world

Liv: sounds idk...sketchy? illegal?

As she read more, Kate was beginning to think that this guy might not be as full of crap as she had initially thought. He had his own start-up, which had already launched a Foley catheter to the market. It was all above-board and legit.

Prince: so, for the aspiring incontinent-person-to-be, the ring is positioned with a catheter, and stays in place once the Foley is removed. Then overtime, probably a month at minimum, depending on the chemical makeup and customer desire, the ring breaks down and is naturally absorbed into the body. And they all sign a consent form saying they accept the risks of such a procedure.

Liv: so then once it's dissolved they are back to being being able to control their bladder?

Prince: that's the theory, yes

Liv: theory?

Prince: well, dissolvable stent technology present state takes like 18 months to break down, and the manufacturing of it is patented and kept under lock and key

Liv: so basically all you have to offer is a catheter lol

Prince: well no. I've got some good leads on dissolvable compounds, but I've got to do trials of the rings first to see if it would even work. I've promised free diapers for the first few months if people sign up, but it's been hard to get subjects

Liv: so these trial rings wouldn't dissolve?

Prince: nope

Liv: meaning my hypothetical boyfriend would be....?

Prince: permanently diaper dependent, yeah

────────

In the end Kate was curious enough that she was willing to hear the guy out.

He'd asked for a mailing address and her phone number. The first was to send proof that his company was real, and the second was just to keep in contact should she decide to proceed.

It all made sense, at least in theory. Foley catheters were safe, provided they were inserted by a trained healthcare professional. A normal person would get a normal catheter just like everyone else. But an ABDL would be signing up for what was essentially an intentionally faulty catheter.

Assuming they knew they were willingly signing up for it.

When asked about 'accidental' ring implants, Prince had basically said, hey, people really need to learn to read the fine print.

────────

I walked out to the mailbox. I've been expecting test results back from the scan I'd had a few weeks back. Opening up the box, I noticed a large envelope with my hospital's address on the front.

About time, I thought, grabbing the envelope and the rest of the mail.

I walked back into the house, where Kate was making herself a cup of tea.

"Anything good in the mail?" she asked, taking a sip from her mug.

I listed them aloud as I started to flip though the mail, "Looks like some junk mail, an internet bill, a brochure for some UroVention medical thing, and last but not least, my test results."

I dropped the rest of the mail on the counter and started to open up my scan results. As I was reading, Kate walked over and began sorting through the other mail.

"Oh good, they said it's benign, but they're still worried about the location. They're recommending removal, just to be on the safe side."

"Removal for something benign? That sounds odd, but whatever," Kate said, tucking something into her back pocket.

"I'm not too worried. It sounds like it should be a pretty routine procedure."

────────

Part 8 - Mike

I sat down on the couch, my diaper squishing underneath me. Kate had taken to putting two stuffers in my diaper, even though these Tykables could already hold a lot. The warm, comforting feeling of my wet diaper started to turn me on, just like it did every time I realized how wet I was or if I was about to get a change. Not that I could do anything about it, though.

I flipped open the laptop and signed in. It would probably be a good hour before Kate got back from the store. Apparently I was being downgraded from sippy cups to bottles.

Once logged in, I noticed that the screen was still up to the site where Kate had last been. It was another diaper order, this time a case of Megamaxes. I felt my cheeks start to heat up, seeing that Kate had chosen the pink color for the whole case.

I opened up a private window, and navigated to KinkLink. My profile on here was pretty bare. It always had been, just containing my age, gender, and some basic interests. I hadn't even bothered to post a picture when I set it up. I preferred to look at other people's profiles rather than post things of my own.

I was always intrigued by people's locations and how close they were to where I lived. One such person who I came back to check the posts of daily was a mommy domme, who it happened lived in my town. Her first posts, from nearly three years ago, were what had first caught my attention.

'Every night I dream about finding my perfect diaper slut. He will wake up to me rubbing his thick, soggy padding, the little bedwetter that I turned him into.'

'Picture this: You, in a wet diaper and nothing else. Me, in my black lingerie with a strap on. Do I have any volunteers?'

'Have no doubt, if you date me, it's diapers forever. There's no "only at home" or "but my parents are coming over". Maybe I'll just find a way to make you incontinent. Then you won't have an excuse.'

And then there were the pictures. She never would show her face, but she didn't need to.. She wasn't lying about the black lingerie. It left very little to the imagination. Then the next picture, where the bra came off, and she was just in her lacy panties, her pierced nipples and tattoos on display. Maybe it was the octopus tattoo on her arm, my favorite animal, that made her stick out to me.

But there was one post that I always came back to and was entranced by. It was a picture of her holding an ABU Kiddo, right below her breasts. She wasn't wearing any clothing.

'Aww baby, did you wet the bed? I think we should probably put you in some protection.'

────────

I stood in line at the coffee shop. It wasn't too busy for a Tuesday at 9 a.m., only two people were ahead of me. As the first person in line got her coffee and the second lady stepped up to place her order, I checked my phone. Still a half hour before I needed to be at work, I had some time to sit and enjoy my drink. I got my usual and went off to a booth in the corner.

"Excuse me, but do you happen to know what the Wi-Fi password is here?"

I looked up to see the woman who had been in front of me in line.

"Oh um, yeah it's....oh I think they just changed it. Try 'PINTO'. They always pick some sort of bean, I think they find it amusing, but it's never a coffee bean..." I trailed off.

She smiled, "Oh thank you so much, yeah I'll try that."

My mouth fell open is shock.

"I uhhh...I like your tattoo," I said. "They're my, um, favorite animal."

"Oh mine too! Isn't the octopus, like, the coolest animal?"

"D-definitely. Hey, would you like to sit with me? I'm just hanging out while I wait for work. My name is Mike by the way."

"That sounds really nice. Thank you, Mike. I'm Kate."

[general-kj]

Are you really so sure of Byler’s endgame? I’m asking this sincerely, not maliciously.

It’s just… I’ve seen this before in multiple fandoms. People read deeper and deeper into the “subtext” that just actually isn’t really there, when it’s all said and done. These ultra subtle clues that the creators are theoretically leaving just… don’t make a lot of sense. TV isn’t that subtle. The Duffers aren’t that deep.

They literally had Mike say he loves Eleven, in front of everyone. Pretty bold for this type of drama. He tried to tell her directly in the grocery store. And Eleven said I love you… and then kissed him. It’s romantic love.

I guess I just worry about people’s disappointment because while it’s fine to ship Byler, I think it’s likely going to remain a crack ship.

Hmm I cant tell whether you are actually being sincere or not because I've seen people acting like this before to try and get rid of my hope but I'm going to answer like your being sincere. I'm not a theorist so I'm not going to explain this as eloquently as others but I'm going to give it my best shot.

I'm not going to deny the fact that queer baits have been a problem in media for a very long time. But I've never been invested in those ships nearly as much as Byler because there is just something different about it. The duffers are very supportive of the LGBT community so I sincerely doubt they would do a queer bait. If anything Mileven is a straight bait, the duffers already done it once with Stobin, why cant they do it again?

This is actually a very deep show, if you've seen Kaypieces theories on things like the DID system you would know this. There is so much going on behind every action. There has to be a first time for everything and this is it. As soon as you look behind the surface level Mileven its all Byler. You could call it coincidence if we had only a few proofs but we have literally hundreds.

Lets talk about specifics now for a bit. In s3 I believe Mike uses El as a beard, he may not be aware he's doing it but he is. Mileven start of the season by kissing to cant fight this feeling anymore which is about someone falling for their friend, El wasn't his friend as they jumped into romance too quickly. Hes only known her properly for a few months and in those few months all they have done is make out. How can you fall in love with someone if you never talk to them? Its also awfully suspicious how he removes her hands from his shoulders when she tries to touch him whilst they kissing.

Throughout s3 Mike seems to be annoyed at her, there is a large compilation of pictures of Mike pulling weird expressions at her. If that's what love is I don't want it. When the mileven breakup happened Mike again seemed more annoyed than upset and the whole scene was framed as a joke whilst the garage sequence with Will was easily the most heart breaking scene of the season. Mike didn't chase after El but he did chase after Will.

I don't think El loves Mike either. She liked the idea of him she formed whilst sitting alone in Hops cabin watching soap operas but she doesn't like the real him. She gets annoyed when Mike starts singing and shows no interest in any of his hobbies. The only interest she shows in him is the fact that he's male and was kind to her. Within minutes of breaking up with Mike she was thinking of new boyfriends. She showed more interest in the karate kid than she did in Mike. At the end of s3 she went back to Mike because she needed the stability of a relationship after losing her father figure not because she actually loved him.

At the end of s3 Mileven kissed after presumably being separated for 3 months. Mike was taken completely by surprise because he had accepted it was over as the only reason he said what he did in the cabin because he was trying to win the argument he was having and just spat it out. Mike made no effort to kiss back and kept his eyes open the entire time, they even kissed in front of a open closet whilst Wills stuffed toy was in the background for goodness sakes. Meanwhile the scene with Will was arguably more romantic with Mike worrying about Will finding another party and at the end of the season I believe Mike makes his full realisation that he's in love with Will when he cries in his mothers arms.

Mike and Will were giving each other heart eyes from the first scene of s1, they might not of realised at the time they were doing it but they were. Mike constantly considered El a weapon he could use to find Will throughout s1 and only got the idea to kiss her because Lucas kept suggesting it. In s2 he stopped calling El the second Will needed help again and he was calling El out of guilt, he made no attempt to search for her like he had Will even when he thought he saw her. The crazy together scene is iconic and I don't think I even need to go into how much of a I love you scene that is. Then there's the best thing I've ever done and the you said yes scene which sounds an awful lot like a marriage proposal.

So in conclusion, both El and Mike are using each other in different ways whilst Mike is in love with Will. There is so much more I can talk about but I will save it for now. There are so many instances that have no hetero explanation like Mike and Wills reaction to the lingerie store and the sauna compared to Lucas's. The only things Milevens can come up with in return is that they kissed and said I love you. If you think that equals love god help you. Mileven is a toxic relationship and I'm glad the duffers aren't romanticising toxic relationships like other tv shows have in the past.

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #byler is endgame #ask

[strangertheory]

"anti-Mileven"

I know you submitted this as a message and not an Ask, but I hope you don't mind if I answer your question with a longer post because this is a topic that is important to me but is complicated. I've meant to do a post about this, but kept putting it off because it is a very layered topic for me and my thoughts about Mileven are probably not what a lot of fans want to hear.

I respect that everyone develops an attachment to their preferred couples in stories for personal reasons, and as such any criticism of the dynamic between two characters that are dating can feel like a very personal criticism. I respect everyone's head-canons and favorite ships as sacred ground: I don't want to tell anyone how they should or should not relate to a story. That's unique to each of us as fans, and we will all enjoy Stranger Things for different reasons.

However: I do have some thoughts regarding the way that the narrative has established the dynamic between Mike and El. And I personally do not find their dynamic *as it currently is* to be one that is ideal for either of them yet.

I really care about Eleven and I really care about Mike. They are two of my favorite characters in the story.

To say that I'm "anti-Mileven" is a huge oversimplification of how I feel about Mike and El's dynamic.

I am very much anti:

overlooking the fact El has been treated as a lab rat and abused and isolated from society for the majority of her existence and her ignorance of her own identity and her own desires is repeatedly reinforced canonically. ("How do I know what I like?") El has spent only a few months out in the world beyond her cell at the lab and beyond Hopper's cabin, she knows very little about the world yet, and she is being taught much of what she now knows by her boyfriend who also happens to be one of the few people she interacts with in her daily life. The power difference and social difference between them is huge currently regardless of whether Mike is a nice kid with good intentions or not, and they are both fourteen years olds.

overlooking that it is superficial and not representative of a "deep" relationship to only kiss and make out with a significant other and not do other meaningful activities that establish a real day-to-day relationship (like hanging out with friends and other loved ones as a couple.) There's a popular misconception that the act of two people kissing is inherently romantic and a sign of emotional closeness. But kissing becomes romantic psychologically when two people share a deep affection for one another that is based on shared experiences and emotional and psychological connectedness. If two characters can be shown to care about one another without ever physically touching, they have the potential for a deep connection that is based on more than the thrill of physical affection. Give me a well-developed relationship first, and then kissing will seem romantic to me. Without an established psychological and emotional connection between characters, kissing is merely a superficial representation of the idea of intimacy between characters without any actual substance underneath. Sure that's what kids do when they're figuring out how dating and feelings and physical intimacy work and it's not harmful in itself provided that they are both comfortable with it, but keep this in mind within the context of the other concerns I list here.

trivializing Mike's dishonesty and blaming Hopper for Mike's lying when the truth is Mike could have easily explained to El that Hopper didn't want them spending as much time together and having some space would be better. El is well aware of Hopper's dislike for their time spent together. This should have been a very easy conversation. As Lucas rightfully asks as Mike is ranting about the situation he got himself into: "Why lie?" Good question, Lucas. Good question. El asks Mike this again later at the mall. "Why do you lie?" Mike stares back at her with an awkward expression, and does NOT answer her. Why is this answer not an easy one? Why has Mike still not addressed things with El? I think there is more going on here than just Hopper's threats.

I am very in favor of:

El learning more about who she is and what she wants to do with her life outside of the desires and expectations of other people.

Mike figuring out how to effectively express his thoughts and feelings honestly. He is clearly struggling to do this throughout season 3, and it is uncharacteristic of the kid who defiantly said and did what he wanted frequently in seasons 1 and 2. Clearly Mike is not comfortable and is nervous, which is understandable for someone exploring new emotionally vulnerable territory like dating for the first time, but he needs to learn to be honest and tell people how he is thinking and feeling or else he is also putting himself and his feelings and needs at risk and potentially establishing an unhealthy relationship that will hurt him and hurt others even if he doesn't mean to. Mike's nervousness is STILL present in the final goodbye scene in which Mike and El talk, and El tells him she loves him and kisses him. He is still stumbling over his words and anxious, and he seems notably confused after El kisses him. These small details are not trivial, they are clearly intentional.

Recognizing that Mike is the first person her age that was kind to El when she escaped the lab, and given that she has only known pain and abuse her entire life and has never known friendship let alone romance that her psychological readiness for understanding a romantic relationship is NOT the same as an ordinary 14 year old's and this cannot be stated enough.

Recognizing that societal pressures and personal insecurities might be a huge factor in how Mike clings to El's attention and affection for him, and that there is evidence in the story that supports this interpretation. We know that Mike is bullied frequently, and that there is a layer of homophobia often involved. (Even if James and Troy were speaking rudely about Will, they were still directly confronting Mike. The implication is there.) We know that Lucas yelled at Mike "No Mike. You're blind. Blind because you like that a girl's not grossed out by you!" This reveals that Lucas knows that Mike is insecure and wants validation. Just because Mike has a desperate desire to be loved and liked by a girl does not mean that his appreciation of El's attention is based on his genuine romantic affection for her. Mike might be dating El because he enjoys the attention, he likes being liked, and he likes how having a girlfriend makes him feel more accepted and normal.

Recognizing that every moment that Mike has tried to share something that he is passionate about with El (the Yoda figurine, the dinosaurs) she has been completely disinterested. Since El has no cultural connection to the pop culture stories Mike loves and she lived in the Lab her entire life, it makes perfect sense that she will have no interest in these toys. Her lack of interest in what Mike is passionate about, however, is worth noting: not because it's a bad thing, but because it's just one of many reasons they are "not even from the same planet" and cannot bond and connect easily. El has lived an incredibly different life from Mike, has suffered through so much, and is still learning about the outside world and about herself. She is severely behind in social and personal development. She needs time to learn and to grow and to heal so she can live her best life and recover from what she has been through. (She doesn't really care about your Star Wars toys, Michael, because she just learned what a phone is and is processing a lot of other things right now.)

*I want to credit @kaypeace21 for pointing out many of these particular observations listed above: you can read her very detailed and extensive analysis in her post here: El is Not in Love with Mike.

These are just a few of many thoughts I have regarding Mike and El's dynamic together, and why I find the romanticization and idealization of their dating relationship to be more suited to fan-canon and fanfiction. For El to have a relationship with Mike that I would personally enjoy and appreciate, the story would need to convincingly allow her to establish a notably better understanding of who she is and what she wants, and have time to heal from her trauma and learn a lot more about the outside world. While I suspect that the Byers moving away will be very difficult for Will, in many ways I think it will benefit El tremendously and I hope that she is given more opportunities to learn and to grow.

I also agree with @hawkinsschoolcounselor 's hypothesis that Mike is projecting his feelings for Will onto El. It's impossible for me to see Mike's dynamic with El as entirely separate from Mike's relationship with Will because El was found in the woods when they were looking for Will in season 1, El helped everyone find Will in the Upside Down and saved his life, and El reappears at the end if season 2 and saves Will from the Mindflayer. Until season 3, El's appearance in Mike's life has been directly tied to Will's survival and safety. I do not think this is a trivial aspect of El's narrative. El's importance within the larger story being told is repeatedly tied back to what Will is dealing with. The reason that El and Will's narratives are so deeply intertwined has not been revealed in the story yet, but I suspect that there are some important aspects of El and Will's stories that haven't been fully revealed yet that will bring all of these seemingly isolated plot threads together. The creators of Stranger Things repeatedly tie El and Will together visually and narratively (re: @kaypeace21), and I believe there is a very specific reason for this.

I look forward to seeing what happens in season 4. Whether my interpretation of El and Mike's dynamic is fair or not, I trust the writers have a compelling next chapter in their story for us all to enjoy.

#anti mileven #antimileven #anti-mileven #stranger things #stranger things theory #but not actually anti mileven I am tagging it that way because I am critical #so fans can choose to not read my thoughts

[abduloki]

COBRA KAI Season 3

Okay, so I lost count how many times I binge watched the two seasons since it first premiered on You Tube Red two years ago and again on Netflix right now.

I’m pretty sure at this point, everyone’s hyped about the possibility of Ali returning to the show but let’s not forget other characters as well, which I hope will return even if it’s just for one episode like the late Rob Garrison (Tommy) did.

Ali Mills (Elisabeth Shue)

Currently, the number one character everyone wants to see returning which I mentioned in my earlier post, might be interesting to see Daniel’s and Johnny’s reaction, especially, Johnny’s reaction, who will probably have to choose between her and Carmen (who might accept Johnny’s apologies for what happened to Miguel, assuming everything turns out okay next season).

Kumiko (Tamlyn Tomita)

Last we heard from Karate Kid III, she decided against coming to America to pursue her passion in dancing in Tokyo. So who knows, she might decide to expand her horizon and decides to come to America after all? Or Daniel goes to Okinawa for a spiritual retreat after what happened with Robbie and Miguel, only to meet Kumiko who is visiting Okinawa as well, for a break from her hectic life in the city to reflect her life?

Chozen Toguchi (Yuji Okumoto)

Last time we saw him in Karate Kid II, he disappeared after being defeated by Daniel. Chances are, he was probably arrested for assaulting Kumiko. Maybe he leaves the prison a reformed and changed man, becoming a better person, studying Zen while in prison to overcome his anger, regret, shame and sorrow. Perhaps he goes to find Kumiko to ask for forgiveness for his foolishness and hey, maybe, they actually settle down together? After all, Kumiko is a pure, sweet and forgiving person. Speaking of the two, check this out:

Tamlyn Tomita and Yuji Okumoto actually met to re-enact this scene from Karate Kid II. 

They actually make a cute couple, don’t you think? :P

Julie Pierce (Hilary Swank)

The girl of the hour, the first female Karate Kid of Miyagi-Do, the Next Karate Kid. While it’s confirmed that she did met Daniel at Miyagi’s funeral, nothing else is known about her character but nonetheless, it would definitely be epic to see her kick ass and show the girls like Samantha, Aisha and Tory how it’s done. 

Robin Lively (Jessica Andrews)

The mountain climber and pottery girl from Karate Kid III who was in a complicated relationship with her boyfriend or taking a break when she met Daniel so nothing really take off between the two except they’re just friends. She left eventually to patch things up with her boyfriend, I shared my wild theory of what if her boyfriend was Johnny Lawrence, who was trying to get over Ali the same way Daniel tried to get over Ali with Kumiko. Why? Here’s the kicker:

As mentioned in my earlier post, William Zabka (Johnny Lawrence) and Robyn Lively (Jessica Andrews, Karate Kid III) met for an episode of Gortimer Gibbon. 

William posted their selfie on twitter joking about stealing Ralph Macchio (Daniel Larusso)’s girl! 

And now, let’s move on to the villains. We already know Kreese is in it but what about his former allies who backed him up in Karate Kid III?

Terry Silver (Thomas Ian Griffith)

Kreese’s war buddy who is a corrupt millionaire. Ever wonder how Kreese managed to survive thus far being homeless before he re-appears in Johhny’s life once again after all these years? What if he’s been living off his buddy, Silver? And in return Kreese tries to get Cobra Kai back within his control for Silver to return and possibly recruiting Barnes and Dutch. Imagine that with him re-appearing in Daniel’s life saying, “Now the real pain begins, Danny boy.”

Mike Barnes (Sean Kanan)

The second guy who almost defeated Daniel, after Johnny Lawrence, so you could say he’s pretty skilled as well. I won’t be surprised if he wants to even the score with Daniel or even take Cobra Kai away from Johnny which he’ll see as his rival and prove his worth to Kreese and Silver once again. The actor even admitted that he’s actually interested in reprising the role in Cobra Kai if offered. 

Dutch (Chad McQueen)

Think of him as the original Hawk, who’s highly aggressive, impulsive and loves a good fight for the thrill of it. In season 2, Johnny remarks how Dutch's criminal career continued into adulthood, as he is currently remanded to Lompoc Federal Prison. Bobby, now a parson, has frequently written letters to Dutch to show he is not forgotten and hopes he can minister to him inside the prison. So if they were to meet again, I doubt Dutch can get along with Johnny like they used to.

Yikes. I sense a Cobra Kai Civil War brewing.

Daniel, Johnny, Julie, Chozen vs Kreese, Silver, Barnes, Dutch. ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAIN! *cue Cruel Summer song*

#karate kid #karate kid trilogy #karate kid ii #karate kid iii #the next karate kid #cobra kai #miyagi do #miyagi dojo #cobra kai dojo #daniel larusso #ralph macchio #johnny lawrence #william zabka #ali mills #elisabeth shue #kumiko #tamlyn tomita #chozen toguchi #yuji okumoto #julie pierce #hilary swank #robin lively #jessica andrews #terry silver #thomas ian griffith #mike barnes #sean kanan #dutch #chad mcqueen #john kreese