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reginarubie · 6 months

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AHHHh!! *Screaming and rolling around in my bed from the updates*

dang my jonsa heart melting did you see Sansa already planning out her future good mother a gift. And Jon being taken off guard by her gentle nature and the pack antics. I'm so weak for this duo. And Ned keeping his receipt is wonderful!! Specially after the attempt on his family's life I'm glad he was aware that communication may also be intercepted.

Now I adore Rhae's characterization another fresh what-if interpretation of her character! Showcasing her Dorne blood AND Trag god complex with their "pure blood". I like how her husband seems like a good person able to still calm the paranoia creeping in. Also, the way she and Egg decided the fate of Sansa and Egg's child while she herself didn't want a political match has me shaking me head.

Hi nonny!,

actually thank you because I have happened upon a couple of comments about Rhaenys which have left me a bit sad because I feel like somehow she has been miscontrued.

First of all, excellent take on my Rhaenys, because you have hit the nail on the head, she is a dornish woman — which we see in several moments — but she also has the Targaryen holier-than-thou attitude which is ingrained in all Targaryen we have seen so far. Even "bully" Jon has a touch of it. And yes, as we say in Italy, they did their sums without the master — hanno fatto i conti senza l'oste — though as it would be Aegon's child he is well within his right for medieval time to choose up ahead whom to betroth them to.

Also yes, after living all of his life believing the Starks had abandoned them and living in a toxic environment created by Rhaegar, let's not forget that Rhaegar basically pit one son against the other, either out of spite for how his hand was forced or because he wanted to test both; being with the Starks is like a breath of fresh air, and he is really charmed by Sansa' charming attitude.

Also yes, people give Ned way too little credit, in canon the man managed to keep Jon's parentage a secret until his death and his teachings are still moving his children. It only made sense that Ned would keep the receipt.

Now, since you happened to comment on Rhaenys I am going to jump at the chance and actually address some of the claims that have been made about her in the chapter that I feel have not been really in line with the Rhaenys I wrote.

First of all, obviously everyone has the right to say their own piece about what they read and are allowed to their interpretation, but as the writer I feel like I need to clarify a couple of points.

So, the accusation moved toward Rhaenys is that she is an hypocrit which she is not, and in brief order I will address those points I think need clarification:

The first point made was that Rhaenys was apparently showing her hypocrisy by not realizing how much her and Lyanna' journeys were similar. Which they aren't and let me explain why imo it is so.

It is not true that the only difference between what Lyanna did and what Rhaenys has done is that no war was fought about it. If you really think about it, their circumstances are vastly different.

For easiness of navigation Lyanna's name shall be in blue, whilst Rhaenys in red.

Lyanna was very much younger than Rhaenys was when she chose to defy Aegon for her husband.

Lyanna, despite being betrothed to Robert — so bound in some way to Robert, though we still don't know in canon if the match had been finalized or not; which in this story we know Lyanna based off her right to not marry over the fact she and Robert had not yet taken the vows of betrothal — eloped (in this story; if most of you follow me, you know I feel like Lyanna in canon was manipolated and seduced by Rhaegar and later secluded) with a married man, who happened to be the heir to the Iron throne, whose wife was still very much alive (and not set aside, as lawfully there would be no ground to annull their marriage) and who had given him two children (both alive; one of whom was the second in line to the Iron throne). On the contrary, Rhaenys eloped with a man whilst much older than her, who had been in a marriage before her, but that marriage had prove fruitless and was done with by the time he and Rhaenys married and whilst it was not yet specified in further chapter we would have learnt that his first wife unable to have children had chosen the Faith thus their marriage had been nullified.

Lyanna told no one of her choice to elope, Rhaenys instead enlised her uncle's help (the Hand of the King's help) before eloping. So there were people aware of Rhaenys choice, which, if the Starks had been aware of Lyanna' love for Rhaegar (or their possibly void marriage) things could've gone much different.

Also, whilst the are gap is similar between Lyanna/Rhaegar and Rhaenys/Aeleski, it is also true that Rhaenys was older than Lyanna was, so better equipped to decide if that love was worth the consequences that may come.

And that's point one, and I think that everyone can agree the similarity between Rhaenys and Lyanna are not even skin-deep.

The second point made was that Lyanna made her choice to love a man and the same did Rhaenys and that both did whatever necessary to stay with that man (case in point, eloping) even against the wishes of their families. Which brings us back to points 2 and 3 previously discussed. On the top of that, Rhaenys was never expresselly forbidden from marrying Aeleski, yes, her king and the head of her House secluded her in Maegor's Holdfast but they were negotiating, so technically Rhaenys did go against a direct order but not against a decree. And in many chapters it has been repeated that this was the only case in which Rhaenys defied Aegon or any other man of her family and again she was backed by the Hand of the King, which is no small thing.

Another point made was that she's upset that Aerys rejected Elia from going to Dragonstone with the children but doesn't bat an eyelash about Aegon keeping Lyanna and Jon at court. And here, again, circumstances are much different.

as in this AU Rhaegar was winning the rebellion, Elia was still his wife and the current princess consort of Dragostone, in full wartime, while Aerys was within his rights as king, to keep her at court, if he sent the rest of the Targaryen household to Dragonstone (which was Elia' seat through marriage) he ought to have sent Elia and the chidren as well, especially since her husband was subduing the Rebels.

Rhaenys remembers how tramautizing it was to live at court during that time. Aerys had gone mad, and Rhaenys doesn't have nightmares about him hunting her for nothing. Just imagine what she has lived through, and what that war caused her both from her own side — her grandfather — and the fear of the enemies.

Neither Rhaegar or Aegon are told to have been cruel toward anyone, thus neither Lyanna not Jon suffered what Rhaenys, Aegon and Elia suffered in that time.

Lyanna as she chose to remain at court to stay near her son and the man she loved became part of the Targaryen household as recognized Favorite (and potential wife) especially since Rhaegar entrusted her in Aegon's care when he died; plus, Jon is a recognized son of the previous king thus without the permissione of his brother, the current king, he is obliged to stay at court. Being a bastard of a Targaryen king, a recognized bastard at that, House Stark cannot claim any kind of authority over him. So, Aegon is well within his rights to host them in KL.

Also... who's to say the children (Rhaenys and Aegon) are aware or guilty of the isolation suffered by Lyanna and Jon?, we've seen there are much more dynamics that we'd like in court, there are tensions between the dornish and Lyanna, especially after Elia died, and we know LF has been at play for some time now. And what if the children were not aware of the plot to keep the comunications between Lyanna and the Starks to zero? , they have lived in such a toxic family environment that they could very well be assuming comunication was scarce because of the fact that Lyanna' choices costed House Stark many deaths.

Plus, Aerys refused member of noble families agency in war-time, Aegon pushes his limits, within his rights, during peace-time.

Next stop, Rhaenys commenting she doesn't hold Jon guilty of Lyanna and Rhaegar's actions, but guilty of thoughts of others, is she really? I read someone commenting on how Jon never showed interest in the Iron throne, and I wanna ask you, who's to say he didn't? Case in point:

Tyrion commenting how much people are convinced the Black Bastard is a good fit — as much if not more than Aegon — for the throne, because of how he proved his skills.

Rhaenys pointing out how everyone was waiting for Jon just to make the move, they aren't waiting to see if he's going to make the move, but when he is going to make his move for the Iron throne.

the Starks are aware that here was tension at court and that people were assuming that the inheritance deal could end up in war, which didn't happen, though everyone is as if waiting at the brink of a succesional war.

Tyrion's comment about how, after Jon apparently showed his rivarly with Aegon more publicly — and his stint in the black cells — started to pit brother against brother as if to test both and see which one was worthy, which in exchange made the court painfully aware that Jon could be a valid alternative for the Iron throne.

Jon himself comments about his feralty and his need to prove himself and have as much freedom and chances as his trueborn brother did + the summary-line from Jon's POV “He had always wanted it, but never like this + The hunger in his chest had become a hole so big that Seven Kingdoms and a whole world besides could not fill it”, that's ambition for the Iron throne. Maybe he was cautious, but his hunger for Aegon's throne and life (the Queen, the children, the Realm) is there from the beginning.

So, I ask you again? Jon (the same Jon who, in canon, wanted to be lord of Winterfell even if not at the price of his family's deaths) never even hinted, in any way, to how he might want the IT?, with all of the points of which above... I think it is a bit difficult to believe he never quite showed interest in the IT.

Plus, people are commenting on how Rhaenys acts as if she's better than the Starks (which is what she has been taught, again with the god-complex of the Targaryens) which I have nothing against as it's a correct take, the point is that, it seems like we all forget that:

House Stark has a double intent to accept Aegon's offer (an offer for peace), they want to basically steal from beneath his fingertips the North without bloodshed. Remember, Ned bent the knee to Rhaegar (even if, as Cat said, he did it out of love and not morality)

House Stark is using the full period of mourning to buy more time and get a better grasp of their strength before launching their plan. In any other condition they would've been much more lenient, remember Wynafryd is in Winterfell, they coul've sent Sansa to Aegon and just let the time pass until the married but letting them been seen as a couple and not as if one has the upper hand (them), which is instead what they are doing.

House Stark again has a double intent for Sansa's mandatory progress around the Realm, a political intent meant to make thei future secession a success. They aren't doing it in the name of the peace, like instead Aegon is doing. He could've subdued the North with the dragons, he choose the diplomacy route (grey character, remember?)

So, actually, Rhaenys isn't so off the charts with her fear that House Stark is showing the Realm who is the one who has the upper hand and threaten to make Sansa a more powerful symbol than Aegon.

On the top of that I've seen the fact that Rhaenys is upset by Sansa becoming queen as hypocrisy because it was Aegon who moved for the match, which, Rhaenys explains why it makes sense, but she was still the only one of Elia's children who remembers the time they spent at Aerys' court in wartime, and after, when people kept just waiting for her mother to be set aside and make a fool of, if you noticed, Rhaenys never calls Rhaegar ‘father’ she calls him by his name, because she han't forgiven him for having abandoned them for the taking for Lyanna; it's human she, as her mother's only supporter in House Targaryen, even though she can see the reasonability about it, would feel upset that the niece of the woman whose presence in court humiliated and pained her mother, albeit necessary, ends up having a big say in what she feels should her mother Legacy. Which is also why she and Aegon agreed their children would marry, to ensure their mother's blood and legacy remains on the Iron throne. It's human.

Also, do you really see similarties between what Rhaegar did and what Rhaenys did?

Rhaegar was a grown man, a prince with two children and loyal and dutiful wife (a wife who almost died to give him his heir) to whom he was still married when he eloped in secret with a girl (betrothed to his cousin atop that) who was half his age. On whom he sired a bastard without caring to ensure her family and the family of her betrothed was suitably compensated for the stain on her reputation.

Rhaegar abandoned Lyanna secluded in a Tower, in Dorne (the horrendous toad) without proper care in her status after having gotten her pregnant at 14/15, isolated from her family and went to fight a war. Several times it is said that it was Ned intervention that ensured Lyanna had a Maester and proper care during her pre-time birth.

Rhaegar, despite having to make peace with the dornish (remember the litle bitch abandoned both "wives" and children to fight his war), kept Lyanna as favorite (compensating the North by avoiding any kind of ingerence in the Northern politics trusting Ned's word and vow)furthering humiliating her, Elia, the Dornish and the Starks plus putting in peril his son and the woman he loved, who lost a child to poisoin or stress.

Rhaenys was yet unbetrothed and unmarried with no children to her name, and married a "divorced” man, childless. She ensured people in the high spheres were aware of her choices and didn't keep it a secret, hell she brought her husband publicly on Dragonstone and publicly fought Aegon about it.

Rhaenys never abandoned her husband and her husband did not abadon her. She is loyal to her husband and they respect each other. Rhaenys ensured her peace with her brother and king was stable and supports him wholeheartedly and never before or after that she has defied him.

I rather think Rhaenys is not Elia — Elia was kind almost to fault, and whilst Rhaenys is kind and generous she has her uncle's temper — she's not Rhaegar and she's not Lyanna. She's Rhaenys, she ain't perfect, yes she has bias born of all the traumatising shit she has gone through, she can be a bit paranoid but so far we've seen it is not out of reason and listens to counsel.

But tbh I feel that hypocrisy is not one of her faults.

It's not that she is not willing to see and forgive other people around her who fought for love, but differently from many, Rhaenys doesn't romaticize the circumstances. She could not forgive Rhaegar for what he did to her mother, and she cannot forgive that what Lyanna and Rhaegar did resulted in almost their deaths and her mother's humiliation.

She fought for love, but did so within the limits, aware of the consequences and working to avoid it escalated.

The circumstances between what Rhaegar did, what Lyanna did and what Rhaenys has done are so different that the similarties are not even skindeep, imo.

I hope I have clarified some points, again you are more than allowed to your own intrepretation of my take on Rhaenys, these are just my two cents as the author!

Oh, and about Aegon's politics. They aren't so off kilter, you know? He's keeping the Lannister in his corner with a second generation Lannister/Targaryen marriage; he is making peace with Stannis also binding their lines with betrothing Shireen to Maekar (notice that like this Shireen will retain the title of princess and her children will still be in line to the throne), he's taking a Stark wife, Daenerys was married to the dornish and he is considering a match between Joanna and Willas Tyrell; Renly bent the knee and is lord of Storm's End. With his marriage to Sansa he is making good with both the Riverlands, as she the daughter of a Tully and the Vale who loved her father.

As always, anon (and everyone else) thank you for the support and the love for the story! (sorry for the big tangent I took with this) and sending all my love ~G.

#jonsa #jonsa au #jonsa ao3 #jonsa fam #jonsa fanfic #darkjonsa #darkjon #darksansa #TBKAFLW

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istumpysk · 2 years

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Operation Stumpy Re-Read

ASOS: Sansa V (Chapter 61)

My little ladybug! 😍

Sansa felt as though she were in a dream. "Joffrey is dead," she told the trees, to see if that would wake her.

He was probably already watching, Sansa.

+.+.+

The sight of it had been too terrible to watch, and she had turned and fled, sobbing. Lady Tanda had been fleeing as well. "You have a good heart, my lady," she said to Sansa. "Not every maid would weep so for a man who set her aside and wed her to a dwarf."

A good heart. I have a good heart. Hysterical laughter rose up her gullet, but Sansa choked it back down.

[...]

Joffrey was dead, he was dead, he was dead, dead, dead. Why was she crying, when she wanted to dance? Were they tears of joy?

I would be laughing so hard, I can't even fathom her compassion.

+.+.+

Dress warmly, Ser Dontos had told her, and dress dark. She had no blacks, so she chose a dress of thick brown wool.

yin and yang 🥺

+.+.+

The bodice was decorated with freshwater pearls, though.

Halfway through the series I've witnessed two characters rejecting pearls, and another character constantly wearing them.

"The pearls symbolize fertility. The more pearls Your Worship wears, the more healthy children she will bear." - Daenerys VI, ADWD

Look at me, a jonsa, stealing metas again! Haaaa.

+.+.+

The cloak will cover them. The cloak was a deep green, with a large hood.

Speaking of metas, there's a whole group of people out there who believe this is Sandor Clegane's white Kingsguard cloak dyed green.

Are you confused? Are you questioning how that could be? Are you wondering where there's any evidence supporting that? Congratulations, you're not concussed.

+.+.+

The gods heard my prayer, she thought. She felt so numb and dreamy. My skin has turned to porcelain, to ivory, to steel.

I'd feel silly not including it.

Gods don't answer prayers, Sansa.

+.+.+

When she pulled it free, her long auburn hair cascaded down her back and across her shoulders. The web of spun silver hung from her fingers, the fine metal glimmering softly, the stones black in the moonlight. Black amethysts from Asshai. One of them was missing. Sansa lifted the net for a closer look. There was a dark smudge in the silver socket where the stone had fallen out.

A sudden terror filled her. Her heart hammered against her ribs, and for an instant she held her breath. Why am I so scared, it's only an amethyst, a black amethyst from Asshai, no more than that. It must have been loose in the setting, that's all. It was loose and it fell out, and now it's lying somewhere in the throne room, or in the yard, unless . . .

Clever girl!

+.+.+

She heard a faint rustle of leaves, and stuffed the silver hair net down deep in the pocket of her cloak.

There's something I've never noticed before. She keeps the hair net.

Me thinks that might serve as good evidence down the road.

+.+.+

The bells were tolling, and the wind was making a noise like he had made as he tried to suck a breath of air.

Don't be rude, say hello to your sister.

+.+.+

"Hush, you'll be the death of us. I did nothing. Come, we must away, they'll search for you. Your husband's been arrested."

"Tyrion?" she said, shocked.

"Do you have another husband?

I don't know, Dontos. Can a girl be married to two different men?

Edit: In 8 chapters Jon will be arrested.

+.+.+

In Old Nan's stories the grumkins crafted magic things that could make a wish come true. Did I wish him dead? she wondered, before she remembered that she was too old to believe in grumkins.

Yo, if you could see my reaction after reading this.

I went full ->

Jaqen still owed her one death. In Old Nan's stories about men who were given magic wishes by a grumkin, you had to be especially careful with the third wish, because it was the last. - Arya IX, ACOK

Grumkins grant three wishes! Like Jaqen grants three deaths! Like Maggy the Frog grants three questions! Like hell grants three dragons!

In a matter of seconds I convinced myself Sansa has somehow been granted three wishes from a grumkin, and it started with Janos Slynt (The grumkin being Tyrion in that situation).

Unfortunately, upon further examination, it doesn't really hold.

Sometimes Sansa wishes for things, and they come true. Sometimes not. Sometimes Sansa hopes, dreams, or prays for things, and they come true. Sometimes not. I can't see a pattern.

We'll keep an eye on grumkins though.

+.+.+

If Tyrion did it, they will think I was part of it as well, she realized with a start of fear. How not? They were man and wife, and Joff had killed her father and mocked her with her brother's death. One flesh, one heart, one soul.

Good leverage for Littlefinger.

+.+.+

They were inside a long gallery. Along the walls stood empty suits of armor, dark and dusty, their helms crested with rows of scales that continued down their backs. As they hurried past, the taper's light made the shadows of each scale stretch and twist. The hollow knights are turning into dragons, she thought.

The hollow knights are turning into dragons? Do you have any idea how hard you have to work to not interpret that correctly?

+.+.+

"We must climb down," Ser Dontos said. "At the bottom, a man is waiting to row us out to the ship."

"I'll fall." Bran had fallen, and he had loved to climb.

"No you won't. There's a sort of ladder, a secret ladder, carved into the stone. Here, you can feel it, my lady." He got down on his knees with her and made her lean over the edge of the cliff, groping with her fingers until she found the handhold cut into the face of the bluff. "Almost as good as rungs."

The two most important men in Sansa's life are about to get loud.

Hesitantly, Ned followed. Littlefinger led him into a tower, down a stair, across a small sunken courtyard, and along a deserted corridor where empty suits of armor stood sentinel along the walls. They were relics of the Targaryens, black steel with dragon scales cresting their helms, now dusty and forgotten.

[...]

Ned studied the rocky face of the bluff for a moment, then followed more slowly. The niches were there, as Littlefinger had promised, shallow cuts that would be invisible from below, unless you knew just where to look for them. The river was a long, dizzying distance below. Ned kept his face pressed to the rock and tried not to look down any more often than he had to. - Eddard IV, AGOT

+.+.+

She could hear him huffing and puffing as he began the descent. Sansa listened to the tolling of the bell, counting each ring. At ten, gingerly, she eased herself over the edge of the cliff, poking with her toes until they found a place to rest. The castle walls loomed large above her, and for a moment she wanted nothing so much as to pull herself up and run back to her warm rooms in the Kitchen Keep. Be brave, she told herself. Be brave, like a lady in a song.

Sansa dared not look down. She kept her eyes on the face of the cliff, making certain of each step before reaching for the next. The stone was rough and cold. Sometimes she could feel her fingers slipping, and the handholds were not as evenly spaced as she would have liked. The bells would not stop ringing. Before she was halfway down her arms were trembling and she knew that she was going to fall. One more step, she told herself, one more step. She had to keep moving. If she stopped, she would never start again, and dawn would find her still clinging to the cliff, frozen in fear. One more step, and one more step.

The ground took her by surprise. She stumbled and fell, her heart pounding. When she rolled onto her back and stared up at from where she had come, her head swam dizzily and her fingers clawed at the dirt. I did it. I did it, I didn't fall, I made the climb and now I'm going home.

Despite everyone's best efforts, Sansa still draws courage from songs.

One step and then another, Jon told himself. One step and then another, and I will not fall.

[...]

One step and then another, he resumed when the gale subsided. One step and then another, and I will not fall.

[...]

One step and then another, he thought, clinging tight.

[...]

Don’t look down. Keep your weight above your feet. Don’t look down. Look at the rock in front of you. There’s a good handhold, yes. Don’t look down. I can catch a breath on that ledge there, all I need to do is reach it. Never look down. - Jon VI, ACOK

+.+.+

With slow, steady, rhythmic strokes, they threaded their way downstream, sliding above the sunken galleys, past broken masts, burned hulls, and torn sails. The oarlocks had been muffled, so they moved almost soundlessly. A mist was rising over the water. Sansa saw the embattled ramparts of one of the Imp's winch towers looming above, but the great chain had been lowered, and they rowed unimpeded past the spot where a thousand men had burned. The shore fell away, the fog grew thicker, the sound of the bells began to fade.

I wonder if this will be mirrored in the future. Someone escaping King's Landing while bells fade in the background.

+.+.+

The eastern sky was vague with the first hint of dawn when Sansa finally saw a ghostly shape in the darkness ahead

+.+.+

Petyr Baelish put a hand on the rail. "But first you'll want your payment. Ten thousand dragons, was it?"

"Ten thousand." Dontos rubbed his mouth with the back of his hand. "As you promised, my lord."

"Ser Lothor, the reward."

Lothor Brune dipped his torch. Three men stepped to the gunwale, raised crossbows, fired. One bolt took Dontos in the chest as he looked up, punching through the left crown on his surcoat. The others ripped into throat and belly. It happened so quickly neither Dontos nor Sansa had time to cry out. When it was done, Lothor Brune tossed the torch down on top of the corpse. The little boat was blazing fiercely as the galley moved away.

"You killed him." Clutching the rail, Sansa turned away and retched. Had she escaped the Lannisters to tumble into worse?

It's close!

Dontos was no true Florian, but you gotta feel for the guy.

For the future, keep in mind Littlefinger doesn't pay debts.

+.+.+

Sansa felt sick. "He said he was my Florian."

"Do you perchance recall what I said to you that day your father sat the Iron Throne?"

The moment came back to her vividly. "You told me that life was not a song. That I would learn that one day, to my sorrow." She felt tears in her eyes, but whether she wept for Ser Dontos Hollard, for Joff, for Tyrion, or for herself, Sansa could not say. "Is it all lies, forever and ever, everyone and everything?"

Will the author validate Cersei and Littlefinger?

Is that how you subvert expectations?

+.+.+

"It had to be the godswood. No other place in the Red Keep is safe from the eunuch's little birds . . . or little rats, as I call them. There are trees in the godswood instead of walls. Sky above instead of ceiling. Roots and dirt and rock in place of floor. The rats have no place to scurry. Rats need to hide, lest men skewer them with swords."

+.+.+

"I had to send to Braavos for them and hide them away in a brothel until the wedding. The expense was exceeded only by the bother. It is surprisingly difficult to hide a dwarf, and Joffrey . . . you can lead a king to water, but with Joff one had to splash it about before he realized he could drink it. When I told him about my little surprise, His Grace said, 'Why would I want some ugly dwarfs at my feast? I hate dwarfs.' I had to take him by the shoulder and whisper, 'Not as much as your uncle will.'"

Who truly killed Eddard Stark, do you think? Joffrey, who gave the command? Ser Ilyn Payne, who swung the sword? Or . . . another?" - Tyrion II, ASOS

"He accuses my brother and sister of incest. I wonder how he came by that suspicion."

"Perhaps he read a book and looked at the color of a bastard's hair, as Ned Stark did, and Jon Arryn before him. Or perhaps someone whispered it in his ear." The eunuch's laugh was not his usual giggle, but deeper and more throaty. - Tyrion III, ACOK

Always pay attention to the ellipsis.

+.+.+

Littlefinger smiled. "Widowhood will become you, Sansa."

The thought made her tummy flutter. She might never need to share a bed with Tyrion again. That was what she'd wanted . . . wasn't it?

Boy, you have a better heart than me, I don't care how he goes down.

+.+.+

"Why should I wish him dead?" Littlefinger shrugged. "I had no motive. Besides, I am a thousand leagues away in the Vale. Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game." "What . . . what game?"

"The only game. The game of thrones."

I think she'll remember.

Your mistake was letting her know what you want.

+.+.+

Lord Petyr took her arm.

He brushed back a strand of her hair.

+.+.+

"You are old enough to know that your mother and I were more than friends. There was a time when Cat was all I wanted in this world. I dared to dream of the life we might make and the children she would give me . . . but she was a daughter of Riverrun, and Hoster Tully. Family, Duty, Honor, Sansa. Family, Duty, Honor meant I could never have her hand. But she gave me something finer, a gift a woman can give but once. How could I turn my back upon her daughter? In a better world, you might have been mine, not Eddard Stark's. My loyal loving daughter . . .

It won't take long for Sansa to learn this is a bunch of horse shit.

Be quiet, I haven't given you leave to speak. You enticed him, just as your mother did that night in Riverrun, with her smiles and her dancing. You think I could forget? That was the night I stole up to his bed to give him comfort. I bled, but it was the sweetest hurt. He told me he loved me then, but he called me Cat, just before he fell back to sleep. - Sansa VII, ASOS

+.+.+

Put Joffrey from your mind, sweetling. Dontos, Tyrion, all of them. They will never trouble you again. You are safe now, that's all that matters. You are safe with me, and sailing home.

Final thoughts:

It's Vale time baby!

No more sleeping on the job, we need all hands on deck.

-> return to menu <-

#operation stumpy re-read #asos #sansa v

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sepedarodatiga · 2 years

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The Snow Queen Fairytale and A Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones Parallel

It's been 84 years since the end of Game of Thrones but has any of us have moved on from it?

I would say no. Well at least not me. Especially since a certain show is airing rigt now.....

Because the GoT ending. Was. So. Unsatisfying.

There were lots of questions, why this, why that, and I do share a lot of the feeling with other blogs appearing in my dash, asking things like:

I can't believe Sansa and Cersei never met again, we were robbed

Where Jonsa?...

Ugh why Jonerys?...

Why Jon kill Dany, not Arya?

Why Arya kill Baelish

WTF is that plot in S8 with Arya threathening Sansa with knife in Winterfell? (or known as the Winterhell plot)

Why is Arya's ending like that? (although usually not jonsa shippers who asked this)

Although this was an unsatisfactory and annoying course of the story for me too, but I believe I can understand why the story went that way, eversince I found the parallel between GoT/ASOIAF with The Snow Queen fairytale. They were merely trying to follow and subvert the motives in the fairytale.

I am going to try and convince you with the characters parallels first. There are some visual "evidence" that I will be using here. If you've never read the faiytale, you can read the original version here. Pictures I included here are from illustrations by Mateya Arkova in The Snow Queen adaptation by Kate Friend.

Sansa Stark is Gerda. She has strong link with roses and songs, she's described as kind, sweet and innocent and her superpower is prayer. There's also imagery of birds and rivers her story.

Jon Snow is Kay. He's the boy with the splinters in his eyes and is Sansa/Gerda's not-brother. He's linked with the Night King who has a shard in his heart and liked to play ice puzzle. He was a prisoner of The Snow Queen and seek warmth under the protection of a bear coat (Jeor Mormont).

Arya Stark is the little robber girl. A girl who has no name, has pet pigeons, likes to play with knives, threaten Sansa with it, "tickle" Bae-(lish)'s neck with it, and going on an adventure at the end of the story.

Daenerys Targaryen is The Snow Queen. I select a picture of Daenerys kissing Jon because the illustration of The Snow Queen that I put here is from a page where she was going to give Kay a kiss. It's such a strong visual parallel with an all white Queen giving a dark-haired boy a kiss with the white snow background. The Snow Queen is beautiful and terrible and owns a big flying sleigh which we can allude as the dragons. She also enchant Kay/Jon with said sleigh/dragons and make him her prisoner.

So we've got the main characters parallels in place. Let's continue with the other characters.

Cersei is the old woman with the flower garden. An old woman with a hat (crown) that holds Gerda (Sansa) prisoner where she dreams as a queen on her wedding day (betrothal to King Joffrey), but then she was saved by roses (the Tyrells).

Bae the reindeer is Petyr Baelish. Bae(lish) took Gerda (Sansa) to the north and had his neck "tickled" by The Little Robber Girl (Arya).

The crow and his ladylove is a gender bent Sam and Gilly. A wild crow has a ladylove (this is the actual term used in the original fairytale) who lives inside a castle and they finally got married.

The Princess and Prince would probably be Arianne and Aegon in the books. A princess who is looking for a husband can be no other than Arianne, and the prince is who Gerda (Sansa) mistakenly thought as Kay (Jon): The wrong prince, the wrong Aegon Targaryen.

The Fin woman is probably Brienne. The woman who helped Gerda in the North and save Kay. Brienne brought Sansa to Castle Black and meet Jon so The Hug can happen.

There are also the mini stories from the flowers within the fairytale that we can also find the parallels in GoT/ASOIAF.

The story from the tiger lily about the Hindu widower's tradition to step into their husband's funeral pyre inspired the birth of the dragons.

The trumpet flowers story about an ancient castle that rises high from the narrow path in the mountains inspired the Eyrie.

The little snowdrop story about two sisters, their big brother and a dog inspired Robb, Sansa and Arya Stark with The Hound.

The hyacinth story about three sisters who are dead and made the air tastes sweet probably inspired the rivalry between the 3 queens: Sansa, Dany, Cersei.

The story from buttercup about a girl who kissed her grandmother but there was gold in the kiss probably inspired Myrcella's faith.

The narcissus one about the white dress and saffron scarf, I don't know. If anybody can crack that, let me know. But it does remind me a bit to Lady Crane hanging herself.

Now that we have explore the character's parallels, the next question is does the story also parallels and how this parallel helps us make sense of the story of ASOIAF/GOT. I do think the story also parallels but of course NOT exact parallel.

There are several patterns and elements of the story that is interesting to explore in its parallel and symbolism within ASOIAF/GOT:

The three kisses

In the original story, there are three kisses that The Snow Queen can bestow to Kay. The first kiss is like waking him up from dead, the second is to forget his home and his family, while the final kiss that The Snow Queen did not give to Kay would caused Kay's death. Jon as a parallel to Kay in this story experience symbolic three kisses in a different way. The kiss that woke him from the dead is obvious, he was resurrected by Mel after he was killed by the Night's Watch. The kiss that was the second kiss to Kay, that made him forget his family, we can attribute that to the The Night's Watch vow. So the sequence of the three kisses is not the same. So I argue that when Jon Snow murdered Dany, that was the third kiss of death. Instead of The Snow Queen giving it to him, Jon Snow was giving it to his queen. This is where the story is divided and subverted the most. Kay is divided into Jon and The Night King. Jon/Kay also meet Sansa/Gerda before he becomes The Snow Queen's prisoner. GoT is like if Kay brought The Snow Queen home to see Gerda instead of Gerda going to the ice palace to save Kay. And Jon instead of being saved from The Snow Queen, saves himself and Sansa by giving her death.

The red shoes

Gerda tried to trade her red shoes to the river so she can find Kay. The first shoes was returned and then Gerda tried again and finally start her journey to find Kay. I think the red shoes in Sansa's story is her name and her claim. The first betrothal with Joffrey was canceled but then she finally married Tyrion. From then on, she started the journey to finally meeting Jon, her Kay.

Back to our questions in the beginning.

Why didn't Sansa meet Cersei again and "finish" their story?

Yeah, in the fairytale, the story between Gerda and the old woman finished when Gerda escaped her garden. I guess if they were trying to follow the motif, then Sansa doesn't see Cersei again.

Why Jonsa is all over the place but we never have the confirmation of them being a romantic couple?

Kay/Gerda's relationship is the heart of the story, but the fairytale ending also does not make them a romantic couple that got married. Following this motif, GoT probably just felt like they need to place it as a potential, but the confirmation would hopefully come in... that Jon Snow show? ASOIAF, if it's ever finished?

Ugh..Jonerys?

Unfortunately Kay must become The Snow Queen's prisoner's. And I know that I hated seeing Dany prancing around in Winterfell, flying in dragons with Jon, but we do need to have The Snow Queen in the snow background with her "sleigh", taking Kay prisoner.

Why Jon kill Dany, not Arya?

And I guess it's fair for Jon, in the spirit of subverting the motif of the fairytale, free himself from The Snow Queen and give her the kiss of death. In the fairytale, the little robber girl did not have an encounter with The Snow Queen, and so we also see Arya have very little interaction with Dany as well.

Arya and Baelish?

Since Littlefinger is the reindeer "Bae" and the little robber girl tickle its neck... well....

The Winterhell plot?

There was this part in the fairytale where the little robber girl was being mean to Gerda and playing with her knife to threathen her.

And Arya's ending?

Is an exact parallel with the little robber girl.

#jonsa #anti daenerys targaryen #anti jonerys #sansa stark #the snow queen

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cellsshapedlikestars · 2 years

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Prompt: I want your take on a Regency Jonsa AU.

Ok, I'm actually sort of cheating with this one.

I've had this bit written for... honestly a long time. Maybe over a year. It's something I planned on turning into a full story, but could never quite follow through with. Mostly because I couldn't think of the rest of the plot

But now I can post it as a prompt fic! And if I do decide to continue it, great. If not, at least this part is out there, because I do like it.

Thanks for the prompt, anon!

read it on AO3 here:

ephemera chapter 22

“But I am engaged!”

The words slip out of her mouth before she can stop them and she can feel Arya staring at her as Aunt Lysa turns around and gives her a once over.

“And why am I just hearing of this?” she asks coldly, eyes narrowing.

“It's... it's a secret,” Sansa says, trying to keep her voice steady and believable, though the lie is anything but.

Oh, how has she gotten herself here?

Coming to live with Aunt Lysa has been a nightmare, after the deaths of their parents and Robb nearly three years ago. Lysa is petty and cruel and seems to hate them all for some slight Sansa cannot imagine.

But then, hope had appeared in the form of Gendry Waters – one of the few kind men in the ton, with a generous income, who has fallen in love with her little sister and has promised to take them all away from this place.

If only Lysa would let him.

But no, Lysa will not let Arya debut until Sansa had found herself a husband and, as they were all very much aware, that was unlikely to happen after Joffrey Baratheon disposed of her and quickly married a girl with a less respected name, but a much bigger dowry.

Sansa has not heard anything direct, but she is certain that Joffrey has also been slighting her name in the gentleman's clubs he frequents. In one fell swoop, the diamond of her season had become Joffrey Baratheon's cast-off, her image disgraced without her having done a single thing wrong. She had been so careful in their courtship not to compromise herself, and for what? For it to happen anyway.

“You would think Lysa would be jumping at the chance to get rid of us!” Sansa had huffed when their aunt had, quite gleefully, denied Arya's debut.

“She hates us,” Arya had said, absolutely distraught. “She'll never let us be happy.”

Sansa had never, in all her eighteen years, seen Arya so defeated. She had never seen Arya in love.

And so, Sansa was determined to convince her aunt to let Arya debut, which is how she finds herself in her current predicament.

“And who is this secret gentleman who has asked for your hand?” Aunt Lysa asks, and Sansa knows from her tone that she does not believe.

(She has every right not to believe, for it is not true.)

And then Sansa does something very, very foolish.

She says a name.

“The Duke of Dragonstone!”

….

What had she been thinking?

Only of Arya – and Bran and little Rickon. Of getting them away from Lysa. Of having some bit of peace and happiness.

And the Duke of Dragonstone is a well known hermit – young and wealthy beyond measure, but they say he hates society and prefers to stick to his estates in the country. He has not been seen in London in years.

Except he has, apparently, chosen to visit at this very moment.

“Curse him,” Sansa whispers to herself, pacing her room. “Drat, drat, drat.”

Of all the times! Could he not have stayed away for a few more months? Until Arya debuted? Until Arya became engaged? Until they were free?

Things are happening too quickly, she needs to think.

After her admission, Aunt Lysa had gone into a flurry – it seems that a marriage to the Duke of Dragonstone is too much of a boon for even Aunt Lysa to let go, even if that means Sansa's possible happiness. And now Aunt Lysa is planning to visit the Duke tomorrow. And she has contracted the help of that awful solicitor Petyr Baelish (who has hinted that he would be willing to marry Sansa himself, now that her name is tarnished within the ton).

What has she done?

“Sansa,” Arya bursts into the room, eyes wide in panic.

“I know!” Sansa does not stop pacing. “I'm thinking.”

“Maybe Gendry and I should just run away-” Arya begins, but Sansa will not have it. She will not allow any more scandal to come to her family, not when she has already caused so much.

No, she is the eldest, it is her job to take care of them. Even if her own reputation is ruined and she is to spend her life as a spinster, she is determined that Arya, Bran, and Rickon will have the life they deserve.

And as for the Duke of Dragonstone? Well, she will get herself out of that mess.

….

She and her maid, Jeyne, are lead into the home by a confused butler, after she tells him that yes, she does indeed have an appointment to see the Duke. She feels bad lying to the man, but there's nothing for it.

The sitting room is quite plain, nothing Sansa would expect from a wealthy duke – especially one related to the queen. She supposes it is because the Duke of Dragonstone is so rarely in London. Perhaps he has moved all the décor into his country home.

She sits on a settee and folds her shaking hands into her lap.

After what seems like ages, the door opens and a man finally comes in and the speech Sansa had prepared all night completely disappears from her head.

The Duke of Dragonstone looks like he has not slept – he is not at all properly attired and his dark curls are a mess, as though he has just woken up. He pauses in the doorway of the sitting room and regards her with level, dark eyes, and Sansa feels a shiver of something course down her spine.

“Who are you?” he asks, eyeing her up in a way that lets Sansa know that she is completely unwanted in his home.

Her heart thumps maddeningly in her chest as she stands, keeping her hands clasped in front of her so that he will not see how hard she shakes. Everything is resting on this. She dips into a curtsy appropriate for a duke and tries to slow the panic whirling inside her.

“My name is Sansa Stark, your grace,” she keeps her head down. She has learned that men like her most when she is soft and demure, and so she plays it up, keeps her voice low and her movements graceful.

“Stark?” she hears, and she looks up at the Duke, who brings his hand up to rub at his unshaven chin. “From Winterfell, up north?”

“That is correct, Your Grace,” she nods, and hopes that his recognition is more about her good family name than the lies Joffrey has been spreading about her. It seems as though the Duke really has just awoken, for he blinks owlishly at her and seems to be processing her words. She takes advantage of his silence to press on. “I am sure you are wondering why I am here,” she tries to let out a soft, musical laugh that instead comes out sounding as nervous and fluttery as she feels. “You see, I am quite in need of some help-”

The Duke lets out a groan that stops her words short, and she watches him storm over to the tray his serving girl had brought in with coffee and biscuits – clearly just as surprised as her master and the butler at the early morning intrusion. “Been in London for a week and already...” she hears the Duke mutter to himself as he pours a cup of coffee and seems to down it in one go.

After he has poured himself a second cup, he turns back to face her and says, “and what is this help that you need me for? I believe my memory is quite sound, and I know I have never met you or any Stark before, so I cannot imagine what would cause you to come ask me for a favor when the sun has barely risen. Is it a loan? Or are you here to persuade me to some cause for your father? A business venture you'd like me to invest in, perhaps? As if I have not heard at least a dozen of those since I arrived.”

Sansa's face feels hot at his tone, laced with condescension, and she is suddenly angry at him for making this difficult, though she knows this is her fault and not his. Still, he is being extremely rude.

“My father is dead,” she snaps, and though the thought of her father causes that old grief to rise to the surface, she does find joy in the way the Duke flinches back. While he's off balance, she stands tall and lifts her chin and says, “I have come to ask that you pretend to be my betrothed when my Aunt and her solicitor come calling this morning.”

The Duke blinks at her, opens his mouth, closes it again, furrows his brow, and then downs the second cup of coffee just as quickly as he did the first. When he has finished and set the cup down (on the table and not on the saucer, which appalls Sansa), he turns to her and says, “well, that's a new one.”

…

Sansa sits in the parlor, body bent in half, head between her knees as she tries to get ahold of herself.

The Duke had left the parlor after her explanation – their parents dying and Robb dying and Aunt Lysa and Gendry and even that awful solicitor. He had left the room, but had not told her to get out, and so she and Jeyne wait.

Sansa will not leave until she is made to. She is so desperate that she thinks they will have to drag her out of this parlor and dump her on the street.

The longer the Duke is gone, though, the more Sansa thinks he means to meet her Aunt and Mr. Baelish and tell them all about her lies. The thought makes her sick to her stomach. Perhaps she really will have to marry Mr. Baelish after this.

At least Arya would be free to marry Gendry, then.

Bile rises in Sansa's throat as she comes to a decision – if this ruse with the Duke does not work, then Sansa will marry Baelish. She will let Arya be free, she will make sure her brothers are no longer subjected to Aunt Lysa's moods.

There is a knock on the front door that makes Sansa sit up straight, and she looks over at Jeyne, who appears just as worried as Sansa feels.

“Sansa,” Aunt Lysa says with a frown, when she is lead into the parlor. “What ever are you doing here? This is exceedingly inappropriate...”

“Now, now, Lady Arryn,” Mr. Baelish soothes. “Though I must agree with your aunt,” Mr. Baelish turns his own frown on her. “It is not appropriate for you to be at an unwed man's home without a chaperone-”

“Jeyne has been with me the whole time,” Sansa argues, trying to steady the shake in her voice.

At that moment, the Duke of Dragonstone chooses to return through the second entryway.

He has changed into proper clothes, and his hair is tied back. There's nothing of the dishevelment there was this morning - a sharp contrast that causes Sansa to blush, remembering how improperly attired he had been.

“May I ask what this is all about?” the Duke asks. Even his presence is different. The man in front of her holds himself like a Duke, like a nephew of the Queen, not just some man she had roused from bed too early in the morning.

“Your Grace,” Aunt Lysa curtsies, voice breathy and filled with awe. Mr. Baelish has his slick smile on.

Sansa cannot help but roll her eyes in that moment – a terrible habit that her mother had never quite been able to cure her of, though Sansa is usually better mannered than this and only does it around her immediate family.

Then she notices that the Duke is watching her, eyes moving between her, her aunt, and Mr. Baelish, a slight crease between his brows.

“My niece has just informed me of your... secret engagement,” Aunt Lysa says the words as though they are a struggle.

“You can imagine our surprise,” Mr. Baelish adds, the use of the word our grating against Sansa's nerves. As if he is a part of their family. As if he has any say as to who Sansa marries. “It being so sudden, and Sansa never mentioning you before. I cannot fathom how you two even met.”

Mr. Baelish turns to look at her, and Sansa suppresses a shiver at the cold look he gives her.

She has made him angry.

He had wanted her, and now he is angry.

He will be even angrier when the Duke tells him the truth.

Sansa feels faint. Did she tie her stays too tight? Maybe it is all the people crowded into the parlor, though there is plenty of room. She did not eat this morning, perhaps that is why? And now that she thinks about it, she was so nervous that she barely ate any dinner last night.

Fainting might help, she thinks dizzily, as Mr. Baelish and Aunt Lysa and the Duke keep talking, their voices buzzing in her ears. If she is unconscious, they cannot be angry with her.

“I must say,” the Duke is speaking, his voice coming back into focus as Sansa sways on weak knees. “I have hated keeping the secret. But you see, the tragic passing of her parents and brother happened so soon after we met, we felt it not appropriate to tell anyone. Then my business has kept me away from London for so long.”

What? Sansa thinks, breathing harder, trying to get air into her lungs.

The Duke looks at her, a smile on his lips, though the warmth of it doesn't reach his eyes. “Isn't that right, my dear?”

The Duke stares at her with his intense, dark eyes and Aunt Lysa and Mr. Baelish turn to her to await an answer, and Sansa promptly faints.

#jonsa #jonsa fic #prompt fic

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run-godspeed · 1 year

Text

Sansa Stark Fic Rec

Febuary 2023

(link to the previous 2)

1. step into the stoplight by phantomphaeton. A modern Jonsa AU with Actor!Jon and Journalist!Sansa (they’re just so cute)

2. A Circlet of Weirwood by Kitkatkailey. It's a sequel to a crown of iron, and it's great. Also it's just wholesome, unapologetically Queer, and has fun with itself.

3. A Caged Songbird by Bikadou. Another Sansa marries Joffrey except it segues into Jonsa (and she murders Joffrey)

4. fighting furies; the starks revenge by @dialux...Time travel, Jonsa, drama, and a fandom staple for this brand.

5. The North Remembers by HalfbloodDragon. Time travel (don’t say i don’t have a brand), Theon/Sansa, dramatic, well written, I screamed at least six times.

6. Servants of the Gods by fvckingaphrodite, our fandom fave. It's not strictly Sansa related, but I feel like anyone with complaints about the show should give it a go so long as you READ THE TAGS, I cannot emphasize this enough, READ THE TAGS.

7. Honor Compels Me by angel_deux. OH MY GOD, like Robb is alive, but he pulled a Lady Stoneheart, Jonsa, Jaime becomes penpals with Sansa. There is Robb/D@ny but it's not apologetic and you do get an Independent North. But The angst? Immaculate.

8. I Am A King, I am a Fraud by thesuspisouslyflyingjellyfish. *screams into pillow* sansa pretends to robb.

9. Girlhood is like Godhood, A Begging to Be Believed by @thesuspiciousflyingjellyfish which by the way WOW! Commoner Sansa! with a mix of gods behind her and minor character appreciation.

10. The Red Queen by bikadoo. HOLY SHIT screaming, crying throwing up, please read this, holy fuck, i'd read it just for the sequel to it too.

and that's the fic rec so sorry for being late!

#sansa stark #fic rec list #pro sansa stark #varies from pro x character to anti x character #so read the fucking tags #i will hunt you down if you complain and didn't read a single tag #pro sansa #a song of ice and fire

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esther-dot · 7 months

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I feel really bad for the originator of the Ashford theory, reading those posts you screencapped. It's not a 'crack theory' (unless they're putting it down because Jonsas took a serious hold of it), since structural foreshadowing is a basic storytelling tool. Hiding poetry in history, which seems a past-time GRRM particularly enjoys--- it's not just there to be there, but to lesson us in reading the past and make us understand the current story more deeply.

We should be confident in our analyses, regardless of whether we share a ship in common (I am do believe in Jonsa, but this goes for everyone), because storytelling can generally be trusted to be intentional. Anybody who wants to act like being incurious is more intellectually justifiable because it's less emotionally fraught is not worth spending time on. It is actually disappointing when stories are not considered and thoughtful (which is not a testament to so-called 'complexity'; The Little Prince is considered and thoughtful)--- fault in reading too much into things usually lay in perspective, less in doubt of substance.

Then again, Originator of Ashord Theory being possessive as claimant probably points more to dismissing it as crack because other people have taken ahold of it in a way they didn't like. If I am perfectly honest, were it not them having noticed it, someone else would have later (and someone else on Reddit did).

It's exactly the sort of thing I look for when I am engaging in a story because it is a tool I see used often. It was what attracted me to Jonsa, not that I was looking for evidence.

(about this ask)

The issue definitely wasn’t a lack of confidence in their own reading, they’re a tumblr BNF! I think Jonsas have written so much about it and so convincingly, it’s become widely viewed as a Jonsa theory and eclipsed the original intent which is their problem with it. Sometime ago someone shared an AltShift video here (a YouTube BNF), and he had included the Ashford Tourney as evidence for Jonsa, so I do think the goal of the blogger now labeling it “crack” is to detract from the Jonsa of it/for shipping reasons, not because they don’t believe in their own work.

As for the broader idea, I certainly agree that pre canon characters and events are written to add depth to the canon events. We can all expect that and look for parallels and contrasts with assurance that they are conversing with each other. It seems to me that every part of the fandom attempts that in some way, we simply come to different conclusions about what those things mean. I can look at something and accept a Jonsa interpretation but also understand, there’s another factor here too. And while I agree that many things are intentional in ASOIAF, I’m also aware that things can subconsciously influence and slip into a work. I recently watched this clip of Spielberg being told, he didn’t recognize this on his own, that he had included his parents love story in a film. Anyone might think, it had to be deliberate, but it wasn’t!

So, not saying anyone should be less confident, I just think it’s good to be aware that after a parallel is recognized, our interpretation of it is where we can all take off in different directions. For example, Jonnel and Sansa is perhaps the most beloved Jonsa foreshadowing (if it isn’t the Ashford Tourney 😅), and I absolutely think it’s groundwork for canon events. The question isn’t if it is, but how. Will it be a parallel, only, the point of the marriage this go around is to right a wrong? Give the girl her home back? (If say, Robb’s Will is recognized). I’ve questioned that simply because it seems like a big task to get everyone on board with Jon being legitimate and becoming their Lord and/or their King only to have them then immediately turn around and all accept he’s actually a Targ and will marry his “sister.” I wouldn’t be mad if that’s what Martin did, but when I think about how much agency he likes to give non POV characters, I’m a little skeptical he’d pull that turnaround off.

So then I think, well, maybe the idea is that unlike Jonnel, Jon will refuse Winterfell again and insist it is Sansa’s again only to ultimately be rewarded in the end by marrying her when she has the power to choose, and she chooses him? People have been very outspoken about how dumb they think the idea of Sansa being QitN is, and maybe that’s too much of a leap for the North because Martin does like his realism, but considering all the female heirs talk going on, Martin is certainly going to say something there, and Jon will have some complicating factors that might make Sansa more favorable to people.

Basically, Jon is a good person, he’ll do right by the Starks, is that the entire point? Look at the way the older generation of men treated women, this generation will be better? Or will Martin use the extraordinary circumstances to benefit Sansa / female heirs? Create an entirely new normal for the North? The story will talk to itself, but what exactly is it saying? That we can endlessly debate!

#dot chat

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jackoshadows · 2 years

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Not a question, just a little rant: I don't understand why Jonsa fans rely so heavily on the Jonnel/Sansa pairing from the Stark lineage. Jonnel had a troublesome rule to the point where the people of the North lamented his brother Rickon's death, and his marriage to Sansa had no issue. Sansa also *died*. He married someone else afterward. Is that their king lol? Do they just see similar names and think "this is foreshadowing for Jonsa"?

Do they just see similar names and think "this is foreshadowing for Jonsa"?

Yes, that how it works in a Jonsa meta. For example, anytime it snows in Sansa chapters it is Jonsa foreshadowing ....

There's nothing in the pages of the books themselves for this ship, so they make stuff up using the asoiaf history books.

Think of how ridiculous this - Jon/Sansa is the central romance of the series and GRRM is writing this all important central romance in the family trees put up in world books/Fire and blood/asoiaf comic books etc and not in the main 5 asoiaf books themselves....

Honestly, there are days when I think that Jonsa shippers are actually trolls, trolling the fandom at our expense and secretly laughing about it - because there's no way they really believe some of the hogwash they are selling.

On other days, I am just utterly baffled and amazed that these people really believe that Jon and Sansa is going to happen and that in the next book Sansa is going North on a horse in the winter storms we saw described in ADwD, and that Ramsay is going to chase her with his hounds and Jon in Ghost will rescue her and all that swill.

They don't even understand basic how storytelling works. There should be stuff on the pages in order to tell a particular story. If Jon and Sansa not getting along in the beginning and then falling in love is the story - then GRRM would put that on the page. We would read Jon thinking about how he and Sansa didn't speak or that time they met and Sansa was mean to him or hurt memories of Sansa treating him like a bastard. But we get nothing.

Jonsa shippers love to talk about how Jon is not really angry at Sansa or thinks ill of her and therefore Sansa was not mean to him in anyway. They point to Jon being more angry at Robb than Sansa.

Here’s the thing, if I was a Jonsa shipper, I would want Sansa to be mean to him and for Jon to keep thinking back on how Sansa was mean to him, I would want Jon to get angry at Sansa’s treatment, anger means emotion and emotions are necessary to connect characters. If we got that on page, then maybe I would have considered the possibility - the romance/love story has to start from somewhere, from something. But in this case we get nothing - just blank paper.

Remember how Jon beat a guy and nearly took his head off during training because he remembered Robb calling him a bastard and telling him he would never be Lord of Winterfell? That’s some heavy emotion involved. That’s love. Someone he loved deeply hurt him and he blanks out with emotion remembering this. If there was a scene like this with Jon and Sansa, I would agree there is something there. But there isn’t. Jon is just absolutely indifferent to everything Sansa.

And Sansa straight up admits to forgetting about Jon, when there was the chance for her to think about Jon while playing a pretend bastard.

Jon's rise to LC and Sansa's descend to bastardy would actually resonate and emotionally connect if GRRM wrote the characters introspecting on it and each other. That never happens.

In ADwD there was the chance for GRRM to write Jon being concerned for Sansa married to Tyrion or include Sansa in the chapter where Jon ponders on whether to accept Stannis' offer. But again, nothing. Instead he writes Jon thinking about Tyrion. Why? Because for GRRM the pertinent, story relevant relationship here is Jon-Tyion, not Jon-Sansa. It's Jon-Tyrion he is building up. They parted as friends, will they remain friends, will they meet as enemies, will they be able to work together? etc.

Jon/Tyrion spend more time together in the books than Jon/Sansa. They probably talked more to each other than Jon/Sansa. Jon/Tyrion shook hands and parted as friends, Jon/Sansa did not even say goodbye at WF though they wouldn't have ever seen each other again. When Jon hears that Ned and the girls may return he's excited to see and talk to Ned and Arya, not Sansa.

I am not kidding when I say that Jon/Satin have more in story material as a ship than Jon/Sansa. Jon/Satin have more of an emotional connection with each other than Jon/Sansa.

Jonsas write all these metas about romance and how GRRM is writing a love story and has anyone read any romance like this? Did Darcy and Elizabeth have a connection only in the last 3/4rth of the book. Did Emma and Mr. Knightley have a connection only at the end? Did Fanny and Edmund only know each other towards the end?

Where's the emotional resonance and investment in this couple on the page?

Jon and Dany have not even met each other, don't know of each other, are on different continents and yet GRRM is giving them parallel arcs in the corners of the world, Dany is getting visions of sweet smelling blue roses at the wall and Jon is wishing for a dragon or three. We don't know what sort of relationship Jon/Dany will have in the future - but we do know they will meet and interact. Because she's fire and the mother of dragons and Jon is fighting an Icy existential apocalypse.

As for Jon/Arya - there's so much material, Jonrya shippers don't even know what to do with it. There's 5 books chock full of material. There's the leaked OG outline ( As an aside it's hilarious how Jonsas use the OG outline as proof that Jonsa is happening. They don’t even explain, just OG outline = Jonsa.. like how?!)

And that's the funny part - everything they want for Sansa and Jonsa, is what GRRM has written for Arya. But Arya does not work as a self insert for them and she is not beautiful enough and feminine enough for them to get the romance arc. So they keep trying to shove Sansa in there like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

And for all their talk of how Jon had a 'pre-canon crush' on Sansa, you know who in canon, in the text hoped to marry Sansa? Theon Greyjoy. But of course Theon is not who they want for Sansa so they make up how Jon's pain at being a bastard is all about Sansa.

There's Sansa imagining kisses with the Hound and GRRM saying and I quote "I have played with it (Sansa/Sandor) in the books. There is something there". And I am not kidding there are Jonsa shippers who apparently hate SanSan because it's not canon unlike Jonsa 🤣. SanSan shippers are all apparently Sansa haters....

They continue to ignore that GRRM is writing romance arcs for girls like Arya, Brienne, Lyanna in the books.

Jon/Sansa is somehow this secret romance happening off page. Even the central mystery of the series R+L=J has clues in the books - Ned's fever dream of Lyanna lying in a bed of blood, Robert talking about kings hidden under all that snow etc. But Jonsa is so secretive the clues are in the family tree not even written in the books.

Granny: Are you trying to say something to the reader by drilling into us how much Arya and Jon love each other?

George R.R. Martin: “Say something to the reader? No, I’m just reporting how the characters feel. Of course, everything in the book says something to the reader"- GRRM

Meanwhile a Sansa stan probably: Are you trying to say something to the reader by writing nothing for Jon and Sansa?

GRRM: .........

If GRRM wants Jon/Sansa to happen in the books, he will write for it. He will set it up. He will connect these characters. That he has failed to do so means there is nothing there.

"The internet affects all this to a degree it was never affected before," Martin tells EW when asked about fan reaction to the final season. "Like Jon Snow's parentage. There were early hints about [who Snow's parents were] in the books, but only one reader in 100 put it together. And before the internet that was fine — for 99 readers out of 100 when Jon Snow's parentage gets revealed it would be, 'Oh, that's a great twist!' But in the age of the internet, even if only one person in 100 figures it out then that one person posts it online and the other 99 people read it and go, 'Oh, that makes sense.' Suddenly the twist you're building towards is out there. And there is a temptation to then change it [in the upcoming books] — 'Oh my god, it's screwed up, I have to come up with something different.' But that's wrong. Because you've been planning for a certain ending and if you suddenly change direction just because somebody figured it out, or because they don't like it, then it screws up the whole structure. So no, I don't read the fan sites. I want to write the book I've always intended to write all along. And when it comes out they can like it or they can not like it."

Unlike the show, GRRM is not going to randomly plop characters into their ending. He is building up to it.

Even the characters closest to Jon have nothing to do with Sansa. GRRM writes Jon's closest friend Sam meeting with Bran and then going all the way to Braavos to meet with Arya and then Aemon telling him about Daenerys and meeting Marwyn and probably meeting with Tyrion and Daenerys in the next book. Jon's wolf dreams have nothing to do with Sansa, but he can connect with Arya and Bran and Rickon - even Dany half a world away hears a wolf howling at the same time Jon dies.

And the most obnoxious part is that they don't even like Jon. They like and reblog Jon critical posts, undermine his book relationships, his story themes, his skillsets. I haven't seen one positive Jon post from that lot.

And yes, Jon is sexist towards girls like Sansa. Then why the fuck are you shipping him with your girl?

Honestly, Jonsa shippers are one of the most stupidest group of people I have ever come across on the internets.

#anti Jonsa #asks

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shieldofrohan · 2 years

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You think the author favors Arya over Sansa and doesn't like Sansa. What makes you think he will pair her with the hero?

Hello Anon,

Well I think it's a weird way to come out as a Tyrion/Ary* shipper but ok, I guess.

Because according to your logic author's fav characters are gonna end up together and his faves are Tyrat and Aria.

OMG didn't tHe oRiGiNaL OuTLinE say that Tyrat will fall in love with "Ary* the Best"??? Maybe you are on sth, anon. Too bad that Tyrion married Sansa aka "the not important Stark" and he is still obsessed with her. But don't worry maybe they'll become canon in the books. Well, I think even Ary* deserves better but whatever.

BTW this was what I said about Grrm and Sansa -> XX

Sansa represents the ROMANTIC side of the author and one of the main themes of the series. I just sometimes criticize his writing when it comes to Sansa... believe me or not, I do it with other characters too (like Ary*).

I don't think he hates or sth. How can he hate her??? She is charming and she saved his books from being mediocre with cliche tomboy girls etc. SHE IS HIS MASTERPIECE. Her POVs are the most beautiful ones for a reason. Martin finds his romantic side while he writes her and you can see it. His errors and problematic choices don't erase this fact.

And STARKS are the heroes of the series not just JON. I ship Jonsa because I LOVE BOTH CHARACTERS.

Tbf Jon is the lucky one in my ship, I want him to be happy with the BEST GIRL of the series. If I was only a Sansa fan, maybe I would ship her with someone else who didn't catch a possible disease from a smelly and violent Wildling (poor Jon really had to sleep with that disgusting girl and it was traumatic for both of us) but I love my boy and he deserves a good girl with a good heart because he has a good heart too and he loves gentle creatures and wants to protect them. OMG THEY ARE BOTH SO PURE AND I LOVE THEM AND I AM CRYING!!

And like in Sansa's case, I believe that author made him suffer too much too. So as author's underdogs they deserve to be happy, TOGETHER.

I hope Ary* finds happiness on a ship too.

Thanks for the ask but I really didn't need a Tyrion/Ar* shipper in my inbox. Weird flex but ok. BYE.

#wtf #it was fun i guess #asoiaf #fandom clownery #anti arya stark #anti arya stans #just in case #jonsa #mine #answered #anon #reply #jon snow #sansa stark

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fuckfacetheunicorn · 2 years

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Just imagine what the Sansa vs Daenerys conflict could have been in Season 8

Disclaimer: I am a Sansa fan. I understand the appeal of Daenerys I just believe she was in the wrong. So maybe take some of this with a pinch of salt.

So Season 8, Episode 1, Dany and Jon arrive back at Winterfell with two dragons and an army. It is immediately clear that the two characters have been pinned against each other, which I agree with but of course, D&D had to fuck it up.

The two characters are, or at least up to season 5, some of the most nuanced female characters in the show. They have arc's shaped by the people they meet and their experiences, and that is clear to the viewer. By this point, in my opinion, the seeds of madness are definitely within Dany and resistance from those within the Seven Kingdoms isn't helping. In comparison, Sansa now has the potential to be the major political force in the show.

Littlefinger is dead. Tyrion, Varys and Cersei have been relegated to 2D versions of their original characters and it now feels like everyone is just blindly preparing for battles. Sansa has been abused for the most part of the show in different ways by different people, but it all adds up. This would be the time for that to be shown.

Her deep distrust for the South and her independent (not on the back of Robb being previously crowned) belief that the North needs independence could be properly established. The lessons she learned from the likes of Cersei and Littlefinger could be put into practise. Instead we get an odd catfight which always seems to revolve around Jon and forgets their independent stories.

(And I get that at this point Jon is the closest thing there is to a main character but it doesn't change the storylines of the first seven seasons.)

On the other hand, there's Dany, who has been told all her life that she had a right to Westoros and has arrived and been promptly told to fuck off. She presents an opposing view to Sansa. She is a military force she gives orders, but leaves it too Tyrion and Varys to handle the politics of running a country. Cunning and planning are not what she does best and that does actually lead her to butt heads with Sansa. One of the few things I think they did right, although the entire interaction was laced with an odd cattiness and placing Jon in the middle didn't help that.

It all boils down to right vs duty.

Dany feels she has the right to the throne through her bloodline, which should have lead to some form of tension with Jon that just didn't happen. Sansa feels the North should be independent because her duty is to the North and that is what she feels is best for it. The Starks have been its protectors for generations and she will do what she needs to do to carry it on.

And maybe this is just a general extension of the motifs of duty and honour which have always circulated the Stark family but it feels different with Sansa. She was so ready to give it up to go South and marry Joffrey, but found that she would always be a Northerner at heart.

Whereas, while Dany may have been born on Westorosi soil, she is not Westorosi. She does not know its people or its customs, especially in the North.

Which then leads to, which I imagine may have been the original point of the show: a nuanced discussion on what a monarch should be in relation to their people. A ruler or a protector. Even in Season 1, it was clear that Robert was the ruler and Eddard was the protector and I really wish that contrast had been carried through in different characters.

OK, rant over.

Actually rant not over. This entire storyline is why the Sansa vs Daenerys dialogue is clogged with Jonsa vs Jonerys instead of the actual conflicts between the two characters.

#game of thrones #sansa stark #daenerys targaryen #jon snow #season 8 #08x01 #a song of ice and fire

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reginarubie · 2 years

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The mythology series [Jonsa] ~ The story of Love and Psyche

So, after receiving a couple of lovely anons about some mythology parallels, my interest was piqued and my curiosity started to burn so I literally fell into the rabbit-hole of the possibility of mythology connecting to Jonsa and which characters can be connected to what myth...so yes, a new series of meta was born.

This is what happens when I am left unsupervised, just saying —

Anyway, one of the first metas I wanted to do was this one, connecting the history of Love and Psyche (which can be found inside the Golden Ass — Metamorphosis by Apuleius) and Jonsa especially considering my theory that while several women will fulfil part of Cersei prophecy, in the end Sansa will be the younger, more beautiful queen mainly because Cersei is an envious, spiteful creature and Sansa will end up, most probably, with everything Cersei wanted and no reason to hide (which will be, imo, what the ymbq prophecy is all about ‘to cast you down and take all you hold dear’).

So, without further ado, aside from the usual premises — no, I am not an expert, yes this is all for fun and yes, if you are an expert and know better please feel welcome to leave your input — let's hop onto this and let's see what we get out of it!

The History of Love and Psyche — the prophecy of the younger, more beautiful queen (Apuleius Metamorphosis vs GRRM Asoiaf)

The princess and the hidden winged god — The princess and the hidden dragon ‘prince’.

“Sweet one,” her father said gently, “listen to me. When you're old enough, I will make you a match with a high lord who's worthy of you, someone brave and gentle and strong. This match with Joffrey was a terrible mistake. That boy is no Prince Aemon, you must believe me.” — Sansa III, AGOT

As always, I cannot stress enough that these pieces of art do not belong to me, so credit to the artists. I just collect them on the net and put them together to make the meta aesthetically appeasing to my tastes, hope you enjoy!

First of all, let's brush up our knowledge of the myth itself.

Love and Psyche (Apuleius, Metamorphosis — the golden ass) history of love and healing and trust

So, the story goes this way, Psyche was the daughter of a king, a princess, and she was so beautiful that she was compared to the goddess Venus, whose beauty she was believed not only to compare but to surpass as well (shrines were risen for her, and she was venerated as the Venus of the earth, no matter the girl modesty, who seemed to be against this), Venus, capricious and spiteful, furious for the comparison and the hubris, ordered her son, Cupid to make the beautiful Psyche fall in love with the ugliest, most hideous man on earth to whom she was to be married with all haste by her people.

But Cupid, saw Psyche and distracted by her beauty accidentally pinched himself with his own arrow and fell in love with her, thus he instructed the wind (Zephirus) to take her to his enchanted palace of which she would be the mistress as his woman.

Cupid, for her own safety, joined her only by night and prohibited her to see him — falsely posing as her ugly, monstrous husband — and while she had everything she desired, she still felt lonely as she was essentially alone but for the nights, and she couldn't even see her own husband's face. Cupid, so taken he was by his love for her, was moved by her pleas and let her invite her sisters to her palace for a visit, in fact before this meeting her whole family believed her dead because she had ‘disappeared’, so that she might feel less alone.

The sisters convince Psyche to discover the truth behind the ‘kind husband’ she seemed to have, to see the truth of his ugliness with her own eyes and spurned by them, Psyche disobeyed Cupid's order and one night took a lantern and shed light to her sleeping husband's face, troubled by his ethereal beauty and in awe she let one drop of melted candle befall on his shoulder rousing him from his sleep.

Betrayed and angered by her behaviour Cupid left her and flew away, to confess to his mother his indiscretion and betrayal of her order; Psyche, meanwhile, distraught searched for her husband left and right and ended up speaking to Venus herself.

The woman took the chance immediately to extract her revenge and took the girl as her own servant and slave, mistreating her and imposing of her four terrible, apparently impossible quests. But Psyche beloved by her husband was helped by his servants — ants helped her in her first quest to sort through seeds; a reed counselled her to mow the wool in the night while the men-eater sheep slept and finally an eagle drew water from the Styx for her — at last Venus sent her to retrieve for her a ointment of beauty held by Proserpine.

Convinced she was to fail she almost flung herself from a tower, but at last she managed to collect the ampoule but was warned not to open it. Her curiosity piqued Psyche opened the ampoule only to fall into an enchanted sleep.

Meanwhile Cupid, sad and missing his wife, went in search of her and found her, he woke her and to protect her from his mother he brought her to Mount Olympus where he convinced Zeus to let her drink the nectar of the gods, making of her a goddess and marrying her publicly before all the Gods.

How does that fit the Jonsa ship?, well it does.

I have already spoken of how Cersei fits part of the traits of Venus (x), and if we put in perspective Cersei as Venus (as well as Daenerys does the same with the eastern-values coded Venuses), Tyrion as the hideous man Psyche/Sansa was supposed to fall in love... well, it does start to resemble a pattern.

Let's make a check list to see if we got all the possibilities straight:

spiteful Venus-symbolised character —› Cersei Lannister ☑️

very beautiful, younger woman who is a ‘younger, more beautiful described as modest and polite, collected and courteous’ version of Venus-symbolised character —› Sansa Stark ☑️

said girl is also a princess —› Sansa Stark as princess in the North to her brother, Robb Stark, king in the North ☑️

the Venus-symbolised character decides to ‘punish’ the younger princess and does so by asking her son to have her fall in love and marry an hideous monster —› Joffrey Baratheon, Cersei's son, gives Sansa away in marriage to the Imp ☑️

The ‘son’ is distracted by the girl's beauty and ends up hitting himself with the love-arrow and falls in love with her, then steals her instead of letting her be married and fall in love with the hideous, monstrous man —› Jon and Sansa are both connected with the custom of “stealing” in respect to love, and with Jon being Rhaegar (Cersei' idolised crush) and Lyanna (her unbeatable rival) son could actually fit also the ‘son’ trope, especially Cupid is in some myths depicted as the son of Nyx (the dark-haired goddess of night) ☑️

he remains hidden from her, only sharing her bed during the night and she cannot know his true identity for her own safety from his ‘spurned’ parent —› Jon's real identity is unknown to Sansa, and it might remain for a bit even after Jon learns of it, for safety reasons (Robert's fury would've known no boundaries; and who knows how Daenerys, his aunt, might react to it in the books) as if Sansa doesn't know she cannot be held accountable for it ☑️

the princess discovers the truth out of her own curiosity —› Sansa will discover Jon's identity (probably out of her own manoeuvring to understand why Jon's acting strange) ☑️

Cupid runs back to the ‘spurned’ parent and confesses his ‘treason’ in hope to obtain the trust and absolution of said parent —› Jon might use the rightly timed revelation of his parentage to obtain Daenerys' trust ☑️

The spurned parent (either Cersei or Daenerys — by what happened in the show I might be more inclined to say Daenerys, but by the books I'd be more inclined toward Cersei) asks of the girl (searching for her lost husband) a series of quests and sacrifices —› if we go by the show Daenerys does ask plenty of Sansa, her hospitality as well as her troops without a care of how they are physically, it wouldn't surprise me if either Daenerys or Cersei could try to use Sansa's marriage to Tyrion to close her in a corner and demand of her fealty; Cersei could also impose any kind of request on her, if they ever were to meet again with Cersei having the upper-hand because of the role she thinks Sansa played in the murder of Joffrey ☑️

the family of the girl believes her dead or unreachable —› Sansa Stark is supposed dead and disappeared after Joffrey's death ☑️

Psyche manages (with help she gets thanks to her being beloved by her husband's people and her husband) to bring to fruition the quests set before her (I will digress on them later).

at last Cupid, in love with his wife, finds her when she's in peril, saves her (wakes her) and brings her to safety to go to Zeus (the father of the gods — Ned?, will he asks Ned's statue if what he's doing is correct? Possibly, surely Ned's memory is going to come in play if we ever get a more romantically involved Jonsa) — and his pleas are so endearing to him that he sanctions his favoured nephew's/grandson marriage (in some myths Eros is one of Zeus' cousins/nephews and in others he's his grandson; in any case Zeus is the father of the Gods and thus is the ‘head of Eros' House’ to say it in an asoiaf manner; the same way as Ned was).

—› It's also possible that Jon might ask his aunt to facilitate his protection of Sansa against Cersei, but I sincerely doubt this other possibility. Also, Ned fits better as he is often representing the Father of the Seven Gods of the Faith of the Seven. —› Jon saves Sansa (and the rest of his siblings) from a threat that will have them all put to death (and death is eternal sleep) in the show, and in the books we have evidence that this will be repeated as Jon dies the ultimate Stark protector (as he is killed because he chooses to run to his sister, Arya's aide), he will probably serve a similar purpose even toward Sansa in the books once he has reawaken from death.

So, to me it looks like a pattern, does it to you?

Let's see if other quotes (both from book and show, but if they are taken from the show I'm taking earlier seasons since back then Martin was still pretty much involved so we can consider them canon) can further this conviction of mine.

A princess of maidenly majesty and a spurned goddess

So, in the myth Psyche is the daughter of a king, a princess, of the land of the west, so beautiful and maidenly majestic that there was no other beauty that could surmount her on earth (in their lands) and this spurned the people of the city to be devout to her and come to see her and love her, admiring her beauty and showering her in tokens going to the point they venerate her, to the point they stopped venerating Venus and started venerating her, though Psyche felt her beauty as a curse as she was alone (as no one seemed to love her for herself but love her divine beauty) still the fact that men had forgotten her and preferred another to her, had Venus in a rage.

There was sometimes a certain king, inhabiting in the west parts, who had to wife a noble dame, (...) yet, the singular passing beauty and maidenly majesty of the youngest daughter, did so far surmount and excel them two, as no earthly creature could by any means sufficiently express or set out the same (...)

Now, that Sansa is the daughter of Ned Stark (descent and father to kings) and of lady Catelyn Tully (a noble lady of a great House) it's known thing, she's also a princess to her brother, Robb Stark and she fits this trope of maidenly majesty perfectly, also:

(...) Psyche will all of her beauty received no fruit of her honour. She was wondered at of all, praised of all, but she perceived that no king nor prince, no any of the inferior sort did repair to woo her (...) the virgin Psyche sitting at home alone, lamented her solitary life, and being disquieted both in mind and body, although she pleased all the world, yet hated she in herself her own beauty.

There are a couple of passages that remind me of these, but some of it comes from the show as well. We know that Martin was very much involved in the first few seasons of the series so I feel like by citing some of the scenes of the earlier seasons of the show we are also speaking of canon, as they were supervised and accepted by Martin.

For one, the scene of Sansa at the docks with LF, with Shae and Ros speaking behind them, and Ros asking Shae to defend Sansa and protect her from her enemies, telling the other woman that she was born in Winter town and that the day Sansa was born they rang the bells from sunrise to sunset, which always suggested to me how beloved Sansa as Ned Stark's daughter was, on the principle of her being Ned's daughter, and because of her charming nature as well. We usually focus more on people of the north loving Arya but I think that is intention by GRRM because it's something both Arya and Sansa focus upon and it will come back in with a whiplash when Sansa reaches the North and finds that love and belonging she had been searching South, there where she had been before.

For second the scene during the Battle of the Black waters, when Cersei asks Sansa, in bookTyrion fashion, what she's doing and when Sansa replies she's praying, Cersei demands, nastily “You're perfect, don't you?”; which always struck me as strange, since in the books this conversation happens before the siege and it's between Tyrion and Sansa and there is none of the nastiness the show gave us, though I think, again that it was intentional to set up Sansa and Cersei as the younger and older queen.

The thought made Sansa weary. All she knew of Robert Arryn was that he was a little boy, and sickly. It is not me she wants her son to marry, it is my claim. No one will ever marry me for love. — Sansa VI, ASOS

This quote makes me think of Psyche, sitting alone and lonely, and feeling unloved personally even if they love her ‘divine beauty’/‘claim’.

—› also, Lysa herself can also fulfil part of the role of Venus, as she herself is envious and spiteful and jealous of Sansa because she feels like Sansa is stealing her husband; in the same way as Cersei was fearful that Sansa might be the younger, more beautiful queen of the prophecy. And she too tries to marry Sansa to someone that doesn't fit the premises of the promise Ned made Sansa (Robert Arryn).

Lysa was as lonely as she was (...) I am not going back to sleep, Sansa realized. My head is all a tumult. — Sansa VII, ASOS

I guess this doesn't need explanation really, Sansa's head is in tumult like Psyche's.

No prayers are answered here, she often thought, though some days she felt so lonely she had to try (...) The Eyrie was such a lonely place that she was eager for any bit of news from the world beyond, however trivial or insignificant. — Alayne II, AFFC

Also, Sansa has long since learned to see how people don't wish to know her but just exploit her claim and her position and the perception they have of her as a weak link, as when she thinks of Margaery's retinue and of how they are putting up a farce, but they don't actually wish to know her in truth.

Sansa's wish for love, is also remarkably similar to Psyche wishing to be loved for herself and not for her divine beauty; also, I always associated Psyche hating her beauty with Sansa begrudging her own naïveté:

“The night’s first traitors,” the queen said, “but not the last, I fear. Have Ser Ilyn see to them, and put their heads on pikes outside the stables as a warning.” As they left, she turned to Sansa. “Another lesson you should learn, if you hope to sit beside my son. Be gentle on a night like this and you’ll have treasons popping up all about you like mushrooms after a hard rain. The only way to keep your people loyal is to make certain they fear you more than they do the enemy.”

“I will remember, Your Grace,” said Sansa, though she had always heard that love was a surer route to the people’s loyalty than fear. If I am ever a queen, I’ll make them love me.

— Sansa VII, ACOK

They are children, Sansa thought. They are silly little girls, even Elinor. They've never seen a battle, they've never seen a man die, they know nothing. Their dreams were full of songs and stories, the way hers had been before Joffrey cut her father's head off. Sansa pitied them. Sansa envied them. — Sansa II, ASOS

“You have your mother's eyes. Honest eyes, and innocent.(...)” — Sansa I, AFFC

Cersei, in a first moment, believes Sansa's is the younger, more beautiful queen of the prophecy and I have already digress as to why I think Sansa in a sense will be it, because she will achieve everything Cersei wanted without the need to hide it, while the others might, instead fulfil other pieces of the prophecy (x), and I think it's so also because of this specific quote:

"Please," she finished, "you have to let me marry Joffrey, I'll be ever so good a wife to him, you'll see. I'll be a queen just like you, I promise." — Sansa IV, AGOT

Can I take a moment to appreciate that to Sansa her first wish is that of love over that of power?, how are displayed her priorities as she begs Cersei?

being a ‘ever so good wife’ to Joffrey (love)

being a queen (good) just like Cersei (power and love)

Love comes first. No wonder Sansa will probably end up being truly the younger, more beautiful queen.

I feel like Cersei' reaction in the show at this heartfelt declaration gives us quite the introspective tumble in Cersei's mind:

See how perturbed she is by it?, imo it is another nudge to Sansa ending up with everything Cersei wanted for herself, without having to hide.

Anyway, back on track.

The beautiful maiden condemned to be married and fall in love with an hideous, monstrous looking man

In asoiaf is more complex than Venus simply condemning Psyche and her family for her hubris (though that comes in place as well, as it becomes a matter of how dare the Starks turn from loyal bannermen to the king, Joffrey, to rebelling kings?), in the end the result is the same, though. Cersei's son, Joffrey gives Sansa away as bride to his uncle, the Imp, who is rendered even more monstrous by the scar on his face.

"I won't ask for whom." His mouth twisted oddly; if that was a smile, it was the queerest she had ever seen. "This day may change all. For you as well as for House Lannister. I ought to have sent you off with Tommen, now that I think on it. Still, you should be safe enough in Maegor's, so long as—" — Sansa V, ACOK

"My lady," Tyrion said, "you are lovely, make no mistake, but... I cannot do this. My father be damned. We will wait. The turn of a moon, a year, a season, however long it takes. Until you have come to know me better, and perhaps to trust me a little." His smile might have been meant to be reassuring, but without a nose it only made him look more grotesque and sinister.

Look at him, Sansa told herself, look at your husband, at all of him, Septa Mordane said all men are beautiful, find his beauty, try. She stared at the stunted legs, the swollen brutish brow, the green eye and the black one, the raw stump of his nose and crooked pink scar, the coarse tangle of black and gold hair that passed for his beard. Even his manhood was ugly, thick and veined, with a bulbous purple head. This is not right, this is not fair, how have I sinned that the gods would do this to me, how? — Sansa III, ASOS

Sansa is married off to the Imp, while albeit gentle from time to time (and I've already discussed how this ‘kindness’ is basic human decency and even there he somewhat falls short in a previous ask that compared Jaime and Brienne bath scene and Tyrion and Sansa wedding night scene, x) is monstrous looking and has done monstrous things, Martin himself describes him as a villain. And, who marries her off to the Imp?, Cersei is there when Sansa prepares for her wedding to show her off and Joffrey, Cersei's son walks Sansa down the aisle, making sure Sansa is married off to Tyrion in the same way as Venus asked Cupid to have Psyche fall in love and marry an hideous and monstrous looking man.

When the moonstones hung from Sansa’s ears and about her neck, the queen nodded. “Yes. The gods have been kind to you, Sansa. You are a lovely girl. It seems almost obscene to squander such sweet innocence on that gargoyle.” “What gargoyle?” Sansa did not understand.

Can we take a moment to speak about this?, Cersei is spiteful that she herself is supposed to be marrying again and with someone she doesn't want — she even begs her lord father not to make her do it again, not that he cares — and takes her victories where she can. The use of the word ‘almost obscene’ makes us see the satisfaction in her, Sansa will never be the younger, more beautiful queen and Cersei can focus on keeping Margaery in her place without worrying about Sansa. And she even japes at her expanses.

—› What more the use of the term ‘gargoyle’, an hideous creature whose scary face is used to inspire fear used in respect to Tyrion hints toward two things: a) Tyrion being the monstrous man Sansa should marry and love if Cersei had her way (to keep her un-rebelling) and b) Tyrion ending up being the one who pushes Daenerys down the last step of the stair she is already descending (as there are gargoyles on the walls of Dragonstone, together with wyverns and dragons).

Cersei Lannister ignored the question. "The cloak," she commanded, and the women brought it out: a long cloak of white velvet heavy with pearls. A fierce direwolf was embroidered upon it in silver thread. Sansa looked at it with sudden dread. "Your father's colors," said Cersei, as they fastened it about her neck with a slender silver chain. A maiden's cloak. Sansa's hand went to her throat. She would have torn the thing away if she had dared. "You're prettier with your mouth closed, Sansa," Cersei told her. "Come along now, the septon is waiting. And the wedding guests as well."

And reality hits Sansa, until that moment she was unaware she was supposed to marry Tyrion, they ambushed her and Cersei was the one to tell her of her ‘condemnation’ to marry the Imp (just like Venus was the one who condemned Psyche)

“No,” Sansa blurted. “No.” “Yes. You are a ward of the crown. The king stands in your father’s place, since your brother is anattainted traitor. That means he has every right to dispose of your hand. You are to marry my brother Tyrion.” My claim, she thought, sickened. Dontos the Fool was not so foolish after all; he had seen the truth of it. Sansa backed away from the queen. “I won’t.” I’m to marry Willas, I’m to be the lady of Highgarden,please . . . “I understand your reluctance. Cry if you must. In your place, I would likely rip my hair out. He’s a loathsome little imp, no doubt of it, but marry him you shall.” “You can’t make me.” “Of course we can. You may come along quietly and say your vows as befits a lady, or you may struggle and scream and make a spectacle for the stableboys to titter over, but you will end up wedded and bedded all the same.” The queen opened the door. Ser Meryn Trant and Ser Osmund Kettleblack were waiting without, in the white scale armor of the Kingsguard. “Escort Lady Sansa to the sept,” she told them. “Carry her if you must, but try not to tear the gown, it was very costly.”

Doesn't this make you think of a sacrifice? The ‘sacrifice’ Psyche became to make sure Venus' ire was quenched? It does to me.

“I’ll go.” Cersei smiled. “I knew you would.”

(...)

Joffrey himself was waiting for her on the steps of the castle sept. The king was resplendent in crimson and gold, his crown on his head. "I'm your father today," he announced. "You're not," she flared. "You'll never be." His face darkened. "I am. I'm your father, and I can marry you to whoever I like. To anyone. You'll marry the pig boy if I say so, and bed down with him in the sty." His green eyes glittered with amusement. "Or maybe I should give you to Ilyn Payne, would you like him better?" Her heart lurched. "Please, Your Grace," she begged. "If you ever loved me even a little bit, don't make me marry your—" — Sansa III, ASOS

So, Cersei and Joffrey (Venus and Cupid) marry Sansa to the hideous looking Imp, and he later abuses emotionally (as I've said in the post linked above when I consider the bath scene of Jaime and Brienne and the wedding night of Sansa and Tyrion, so I won't digress further here).

The stealing of Psyche ~ the maiden and the thief, or the maiden is the thief?

In the myth Cupid distracted by Psyche beauty ends up pinching himself with his own arrow and falls helplessly in love with Psyche, thus, refusing to have her marry the hideous looking man, he has his servant, the wind (Zephyr) steal her away from her wedding and brought to his enchanted palace.

Both Jon and Sansa are connected with the theme of the custom of stealing in the thematic of love, and what more... they both are connected with bird imaginery: Jon as a crow (and his red-head crow wife, but I digress) and Sansa as a little bird/little dove.

She ran her fingers lightly across his stomach. "I feared you'd do the same once. Fly back to the Wall. You never knew what t' do after you stole me." Jon sat up. "Ygritte, I never stole you." "Aye, you did. You jumped down the mountain and killed Orell, and afore I could get my axe you had a knife at my throat. I thought you'd have me then, or kill me, or maybe both, but you never did. And when I told you the tale o' Bael the Bard and how he plucked the rose o' Winterfell, I thought you'd know to pluck me then for certain, but you didn't. You know nothing, Jon Snow." She gave him a shy smile. "You might be learning some, though." — Jon III, ASOS

First, Jon is again connected to the bird imaginery and flying away from Ygritte, then Ygritte claims he has stolen her to which he replies he hasn't and Ygritte tries to convince him he has, and ends up admitting he might be learning something. Spoiler alert: that knowledge won't be used on Ygritte.

"I look forward to a spirited discussion." Ser Roland swung down from his horse, turned to Alayne, and smiled. "I had heard that Lord Littlefinger's daughter was fair of face and full of grace, but no one ever told me that she was a thief." “You wrong me, ser, I am no thief!” Ser Roland placed his hand over his heart. "Then how do you explain this hole in my chest, from where you stole my heart?" — Alayne I, WOW

Dawn stole into her garden like a thief. The grey of the sky grew lighter still, and the trees and shrubs turned a dark green beneath their stoles of snow. — Sansa VII, ASOS

All the while Sansa is disguising herself as LF's baseborn daughter and LF's personal sigil is the mockingbird, again with the bird imaginery (and Sansa has just fled KL, and people already are saying she flew away from the keep as a wolf with bat-like wings). I've already spoken about the romantic hue given to the quote from Sansa VII, ASOS in a previous ask, x; and of how it hints to both Jon and Sansa and their possible romance coming in the coming books, tho, as I've stated more than once, I wouldn't be surprised if Martin keeps it mostly inward and leaves the finale open (like in the show) for a further development beyond the Dream of Spring.

Also, as I have discussed previously (x) Sansa is foreshadowed to help her cousin Jon (of whom she hears the grief of death — and probably shall hear his awakening as well but I am digressing) leading him by the hand and talking him through peril and winter, thanks to stories of knightly valour.

Will Sansa be stolen from Baelish (and whoever he means to marry her to, to forward his plans) and his plans, thanks to Jon? She already is, and all the while Jon isn't even near her, yet.

As I've said in a previous ask (x) Jon is already saving Sansa from LF and his plans for her. LF is trying to isolate her, become her sole relator of news and her only informant, if he is the one giving her what information he wants, he controls what she knows and thus what she does. But he has underestimated Sansa and the loyalty of the Royces to the Starks the their cause (why they were furious they couldn't join Robb and his cause and loved Ned), in fact Sansa learns from Randa that not only Jon is alive, but that he has also made Lord Commander of the NW, and this happens shortly after she thinks she would flee both LF and Petyr (the mask and the man) if she only had somewhere to run to, someone to run to as she thinks that Lysa, who was supposed to keep her safe tried to kill her instead, so no place is safe...and boom here strides Jon Snow, newly named lord commander of the NW, and also “Winterfell belongs to my sister, Sansa” — to quote show Sansa: someone better offering (not that she knows of, yet) a better chance for Sansa survival and happiness and safety; someone she cares for “it would be so sweet to see him once again”, someone who literally died for a Stark girl (Arya — Jeyne) and will be ready to fight for the Starks again.

The hidden spouse

I've lost count of how many fics I've read with this trope I adore, and Jon marrying Alayne to gather the help of the Vale for Stannis or for himself, and while I adore them, I think in canon the point shall be the reversal.

Jon is an hidden Targaryen, an hidden ‘prince’ (depending on wether he's true born or not, which remains to be seen) and no one but his parental figure is aware of it, for safety reasons Sansa (and Jon himself) is unaware of his true identity. It wouldn't surprise me if Jon learned the truth about his parentage and did not reveal it to Sansa immediately, mostly a) so that it could be used politically to free the North of whatever vow Jon might take b) for safety reasons, if Sansa didn't know she cannot be held accountable for the truth of Jon's parentage (it wouldn't surprise me if Jon considered that to protect her brothers Sansa could out him and his parentage — in a parallel way as to Ned inability to trust Cat with the safety of Jon when her children were put in danger — though I am inching more to a Jon wanting to keep Sansa's slate clean, though he is a bit brooding so he might brood about the possibility of Sansa not loving him anymore if he isn't her brother and her true brothers come along, alive and well — it'd be the kind of angst Martin would write).

If we see his feelings develop for Sansa, inwardly that will be especially in the beginning, and he kept that secret from her, and is even unaware of it himself still, we'd see a besotted knight with his lady sister (who fits his every wish) love, but whose identity is absconded from either only Sansa or both of them.

If his name ends up to be Aemon which can be linked both to an old Gaelic version of Edmund (meaning wealthy/fierce protection) and an ancient egyptian version of Amon (meaning hidden one) ... and he fits both the meanings:

With all of textual evidences linking Jon with Aemon Dragonknight (and Sansa with Naerys), bigger clue we could not find.

The betrayal of trust

In the myth Psyche (feeling lonely albeit loved) convinced by the sisters (who are envious of her love for her husband) violates her husband' prohibition and out of curiosity she breaks his trust and learns the truth of his identity.

As opposed, to defend him and their family, show Sansa ‘betrayed’, tho I already disproved it as a betrayal of trust (x) I don't recuse to Jon it might feel that way initially, the secretive nature of Jon's parentage.

In the book it might be reserved, Jon using the knowledge of his parentage without telling Sansa before which would made her feel betrayed about it (as she felt betrayed by him basically giving away her birthright — a birthright bookJon defended — Bran's birthright to a foreign conqueror).

If only the show (or the book) ended in a marriage (like the myth) we'd have the perfect parallel.

The quests — healing and love transcending any kind of adversity

So, Psyche has violated Cupid's prohibition and the god has flown to his mother and confess his crimes against her (because he feels betrayed).

Psyche, distraught over her husband's departure, searches for him everywhere and ends up in Venus' service, ready to do anything to get her husband back:

If you look outside the walls of your city, you'll find thousands of Northmen who will explain to you why harming Jon Snow is not in your interest. — Sansa Stark, s8e6 GoT

Venus puts her through a series of quests to pay for her crime and earn forgiveness, and she's helped to fulfil them all by her husband's servants and friends.

And by considering each quest I swear we have to laugh because they are literally built for Sansa— or can be applied to Sansa as well.

Sort through mixed seeds of grain, successful thanks to the help of ants —› Sansa is the de facto lady of the Eyrie now in the books and she ensuring the the Eyrie and its court survive winter, that means that they must prepare their store, and it's not a chance that in the show she's basically the only one whose shown to worry about the state of the stores for winter and the comfort of the soldiers who will fight for them. Why do I speak of the soldiers as well?, why because of this:

Soldiers crawled over the city walls like ants with torches, and crowded the hoardings that had sprouted from the ramparts. — Sansa IV, ACOK

Around the walls the hosts of Lords Declarant were stirring, emerging from their tents like ants from an anthill. If only they were truly ants, she thought, we could step on them and crush them. — Alayne I, AFFC

The gaunt outlines of huge catapults and monstrous wooden cranes stood sentry up there, like the skeletons of great birds, and among them walked men in black as small as ants (...). — Jon III, AGOT

Some were tearing great holes in the half-frozen ground, while others trained for war. He watched as a swarming mass of riders charged a shield wall, astride horses no larger than ants (...) — Jon VII, ACOK

Jon watched the riders go from atop the Wall—three parties, each of three men, each carrying a pair of ravens. From on high their garrons looked no larger than ants, and Jon could not tell one ranger from another. He knew them, though. Every name was graven on his heart. — Jon VI, ADWD

—› Might I also point out a contrast?

The next morning she woke stiff and sore and aching, with ants crawling on her arms and legs and face. When she realized what they were, she kicked aside the stalks of dry brown grass that had served as her bed and blanket and struggled to her feet. She had bites all over her, little red bumps, itchy and inflamed. Where did all the ants come from? Dany brushed them from her arms and legs and belly. She ran a hand across her stubbly scalp where her hair had burned away, and felt more ants on her head, and one crawling down the back of her neck. She knocked them off and crushed them under her bare feet. There were so many …It turned out that their anthill was on the other side of her wall. She wondered how the ants had managed to climb over it and find her. To them these tumbledown stones must loom as huge as the Wall of Westeros. The biggest wall in all the world, her brother Viserys used to say, as proud as if he'd built it himself. — Daenerys X, ADWD

Interesting, isn't it? I wonder what it might mean —

Anyway, back to this:

Sansa: the men we have left are exhausted, many of them are wounded. They'll fight better if they have time to rest and recuperate. Daenerys: how long do you suggest? Sansa: I can't say for certain, not without talking to the officers.

—› may I point out that this (☝🏽) is something Daenerys as queen should've done?, and if she hadn't she should've had her men, the people in her retinue do it in her stead, to make sure of the condition of her armies beyond the number and decide how to move forward? Had she listened to Sansa Rhaegal would've had more time to recuperate and maybe he would've been able to avoid being killed, because his reflexes would've been better, more camaraderie would've been born between the diverse troops which compose her army, and she would've had more time to move politically against Cersei, which could've unseat her without the need to military attack KL, or they could've had time to find an alternative solution. As we say in Italy ‘you've done thirty, do thirty-and-one’, you've waited several years to take the throne, wait a bit more. If you want to be more than a conqueror and an invader you have to give the people time to see you as such.

Daenerys: I came north to fight alongside you, [you claim to be the queen of the North as well, fight for it should be only your duty, especially after its king bent the knee] at great cost to my armies and myself, now that the time has come to reciprocate, you want to postpone. [no, she wants to win with less losses as possible, something that should be foremost in your mind — but I've already digressed on how her armies are only a mean to an end for Daenerys and I won't digress further here] Sansa: it's not just our people, is yours. You want to throw them into a war they're not ready to fight. Daenerys: the longer I leave my enemies alone, the stronger they became [so do you!!!!!] — s8e4, GoT

I won't digress on how Jon backing Daenerys theatrically against the safety of his own people is out of character for him and hints toward pol!Jon, only the show has not shown his inner thoughts; I won't digress on how Jon backing Daenerys theatrically against the safety of his own people is out of character for him (just look at him thinking of the rangers and knowing their names by heart even when he knows he might be sending them to their deaths, c'mooooooon!). I won't do it. Not here, anyway, but it is pretty blatant, in my opinion.

Those aren't the only evidences given to us by the show either, Sansa worries for the state of the stores during winter, she worries for how to feed everyone, she worries that the soldiers have the warmest armours they can have (but this last bit connects better with the second task set on Psyche).

So between the hint given by the text and what the show showed us, is very possible that Daenerys or Cersei (whoever has the upper hand in that moment over the Starks) might demand allegiance and military solidarity of them, even when the northmen are exhausted and not ready. But most that anything, the fact that Sansa thinks of the lord Declarants and their troops as well as defending soldiers as ants crawling around and the connection with ants helping Psyche sorting the seeds, make me think that Sansa might have to use the knights of the Vale not only to take back the North, but also to try and keep it whole and safe as Daenerys and Cersei wage war against one another (or Aegon as well).

gather an hank of wool from a golden men-eating sheep, managed thanks to an helpful reed who tells her a secret the allows her to fulfil the task —› can you hear me laughing all the way where you are?, because I am, this is that obvious. I mean, an helpful reed tells her the secret to hank the wool from the men-eating sheep is to do so during the night, when the sheep is more docile and less prone to attack. Howland Reed is possibly the only man in existence aware of the true identity of Jon Snow, and we all know he has kept that knowledge silent for decades, and that he and his family are loyal to the marrow to the Starks. Wouldn't Howland Reed (if Jon failed to tell her) tell her the truth about Jon's parentage and hidden identity, to make sure the North, and House Stark survive unscathed?; also wool, again an hint toward taking care of her people, Sansa is all about her duties and she has shadowed Cat Stark in her lady endeavours, she knows what are her duties.

But listening to people you'd rather not listen to is one of your responsibilities as Lord of Winterfell — Maester Luwin

Sansa: I listen to their complaints which is my responsibility as the lady of Winterfell.

—› The last seasons of the show might have butchered entire plots and characters, but this (☝🏽) this is Sansa, without any single doubt.

And it has textual evidences as well in the books:

Sansa was made of sterner stuff. A great lady knew how to behave at tournaments. Even Septa Mordane noted her composure and nodded in approval. — Sansa II, AGOT

"No, it gives me joy to kill people." His mouth twitched. "Wrinkle up your face all you like, but spare me this false piety. You were a high lord's get. Don't tell me Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell never killed a man." "That was his duty. He never liked it." — Sansa IV, ACOK

“Now, don't you have some duties to perform?" She did indeed. She saw to the mulling of the wine first, found a suitable wheel of sharp white cheese, and commanded the cook to bake bread enough for twenty, in case the Lords Declarant brought more men than expected. Once they eat our bread and salt they are our guests and cannot harm us. The Freys had broken all the laws of hospitality when they'd murdered her lady mother and her brother at the Twins, but she could not believe that a lord as noble as Yohn Royce would ever stoop to do the same. — Alayne I, AFFC

"You are never an intrusion, sweetling. I was just now telling these good knights what a dutiful daughter I had." "Dutiful and beautiful," said an elegant young knight whose thick blond mane cascaded down well past his shoulders. — Alayne I, AFFC

Still, it would not serve. On the valley floor autumn still lingered, warm and golden, but winter had closed around the mountain peaks. They had weathered three snowstorms, and an ice storm that transformed the castle into crystal for a fortnight. The Eyrie might be impregnable, but it would soon be inaccessible as well, and the way down grew more hazardous every day. — Alayne II, AFFC

It was clever. The tourney, the prizes, the winged knights, it had all been her own notion. Lord Robert's mother had filled him full of fears, but he always took courage from the tales she read him of Ser Artys Arryn, the Winged Knight of legend, founder of his line. Why not surround him with Winged Knights? She had thought one night, after Sweetrobin had finally drifted off to sleep. His own Kingsguard, to keep him safe and make him brave. And no sooner did she tell Petyr her idea than he went out and made it happen. — Alayne I, WOW

She knows by heart both the duties of a lord and a lady, she knows the duties of a warden and his lady wife, of a king and his consort (as she was educated to be the future queen); she knows the duties the head of an House must perform as well (as the history of Westeros has told us that at times women have had to carry on their family lines and act as Heads and take husbands to give them their name). She knows them by heart. And she's born to fulfil them, it's what she has always done and tried to do.

fill a crystal vessel with the water of a spring that feeds the Styx and Cocytus with the help of an eagle —› now, Sansa is, in the last book, acting de facto great lady of the Eyrie and is the parental figure of Robert Arryn (whose banner displays a falcon — another bird of prey same as the eagle) and we know she is diplomatically creating a situation in which she is perceived as a defender of her cousin (creating the Winged Knights) as well as a better option than plotting and not trustworthy LF (especially since it's very possible that the Royces already know of her true identity); also, one of the Houses of the Riverlands, House Mallister, has displayed on their banner an eagle, and they were loyal to Robb's cause, right now its Head and his heir are prisoners of the Freys in Seagard, in the northern Riverlands, and which could provide (if they ever manage to break free — Blackfish what are you doing?) for Sansa Stark, Cat Tully's daughter and the sister of king Robb Stark safe passage home to the North.

—› also, Petrek Mallister, the heir to Seagard, is a good friend to Edmure Tully (Cat's beloved brother) and has, between his many interests, also that of hawking (a skill we've seen Sansa also possesses, as she's gone hawking with Margaery in KL) again a skill of conjecture between man-and-bird-of-prey. Will Sansa get their help and their loyalty out of love for Robb and Catelyn/Edmure? It's possible.

Retrieving a beauty treatment from the queen of the underworld, Proserpine, managed thanks to the help of a speaking tower —› at last, seen that Psyche had fulfilled all tasks Venus had set on her, the goddess gives her one last task, that the girl herself is convinced to fail to the point she almost throws herself off a tower.

The northern girl. Winterfell's daughter. We heard she killed the king with a spell, and afterward changed into a wolf with big leather wings like a bat, and flew out a tower window. — Arya XIII, ASOS

But the tower stops her from killing herself and tells her not only how to find the entryway to the Underworld, but also how to get around Charon and Cerberus, but especially how to behave toward the underworld Queen, Proserpine.

My point is, some of the Freys (whose banner are the twin towers) have been sent away from the Twins, because they were considered too loyal to Robb and his cause. Will one of them flock to Sansa Stark's side and help her? Is not absurd to believe, since their own kin have shunned them because they were too loyal to Robb. Will the ‘speaking tower’ help her get through the Twins (Charon and Cerberus) guarding the rivers (as they did in the myth) and back North?

Proserpine and her trick

Proserpine, the goddess of the underworld, is the roman version of the greek Persephone/Kore, but that, in this myth takes a bit of the darkness of her husband (as I've said already in my meta about Sansa and the myths she might embody Persephone had a very dark side, to the point we used to say that it was better to end up before Hades during spring and summer — when Persephone was not there to fulfil her duties as queen — then in fall and winter, when she was and would give the punishment as she saw fit — the Erinni, who are the personification of vengeance are her daughters and answer to her; also in some myths Persephone/Proserpine is considered Zeus' daughter with Styx, the personification of the river of hate and this is the personification Apuleius goes with).

Appearing gentle and humouring the human wife of Cupid, Proserpine lets her retrieve the ointment, but warns her not to open it. Psyche, filled with curiosity opens it, intent on using it if necessary, and ends up falling into a death-like sleep.

The more dark version of Proserpine I have always associated with Melisandre, why?, because Proserpine often was invoked for necromancy and Melisandre, who is a sorceress who uses blood-magic; and Proserpine was known for her role in delivering punishments to those who came in the Underworld.

We know, by the show, that Mel will have a hand in returning Jon Snow from death, and most possibly will try and manipulate him and possibly Sansa to bring forth her visions like she did with Stannis. It wouldn't surprise me if Melisandre would try to deceive Sansa.

The death-like sleep, a reversal, an healed love

In the myth of Cupid and Psyche, after she has fallen into the death-like sleep Cupid manages to wake her with a kiss and by rousing her. I have said more than once that it wouldn't surprise me if in the books, once Jon returns from death he will, similarly as lady Stoneheart and Beric Dondarrion, as well as, imo, Daenerys Targaryen be single-minded focused on one purpose, the one with which he has died in mind. Defending the Stark girl(s). Which will make him play dirty (and we all know how much bookJon is capable of playing dirty when necessary, he's a menace) to make sure they survive and are happy.

In the show we're shown how Jon has lost his identity since waking up from death, he kills his assassins and then proceeds to abandon everything to ‘get warm’ which is extremely out of character of the man who chose his duty to the North as the blood of Winterfell over the woman he had ‘fallen in love’ (it's called Stockholm syndrome, btw) and it's only when Sansa finds him that Jon has a new purpose.

Sansa: where will you go? Jon: where will we go, if I don't watch over you father's ghost will come back and murder me. — s6e4, GoT

Jon has already found his purpose. Keep Sansa safe.It's only when Sansa points out that Winterfell is theirs, and Bran and Rickon's and Arya's and that they will never be safe if they don't take it back, that she'll do it alone if he won't help that he decides to move for Winterfell. This hints, imo, the possibility that in the book resurrected Jon will move for Winterfell in an attempt to save fake Arya, only to come up short when it's actually Jeyne, then when he meets with Sansa he will shift all of that defence and protectiveness he woke up with, to Sansa. Cue in possible romantic feelings and we probably will see Jon starting to slowly come back to himself as if Sansa is rousing him (singing him — courteous love both of them wish for, as I've said numerous times) back to his hold self, something he will have to hold onto when everything he thought he knew about himself come crashing down with the truth of his parentage.

A reversal of Cupid rousing Psyche and then taking her back to Olympus where she drinks the ambrosia, the nectar that gives her immortality and makes of her a goddess (a pregnant one at that). Kind of like, possibly, Sansa might end up giving Jon the Stark name (his own ambrosia, granting him immortality as a Stark, one way or another — either by fame, and decree, as hinted by the crypt teaser where Jon's statue is put along the one of Sansa the qitn and Arya the hero of Winterfell, on the consort's side of Sansa — or by marrying him and making of him a Stark through marriage as both of their arc also hinge on the fact of having children to inherit Winterfell who look like their siblings).

The trust between Cupid and Psyche is healed, because of love, because of the length Psyche went for that love, and because of Cupid's inability to stay away from Psyche.

And the show did give us a mutated (less obvious because of the lack of inner thoughts) version of this ending:

[yes, I totally forgot to have the gif dissolve in black when they enter and they finish in the first gif, but I am too lazy now to change it, my bad]

So, yes, I would say that the myth of Cupid and Psyche does seem to hold some parallel with Jonsa. What do you all think?, as always thank you for bearing with me until the end of this meta, hope you enjoyed!

You can find my other mythology essays here:

Cersei vs Daenerys — Venus decoded

Sansa and the mythological figures she embodies (Persephone/Kore, Isis, Medusa, Gunnlöd, Psyche) — the Myth of Sansa Stark

Jonsa mythology (2) — Jonsa foreshadowing, part IX: Osiris and Isis

#jonsa #jonsa foreshadowing #myth and jonsa #cupid and pysche #jon and sansa #sansa stark mythology #mythology essays #sansa *he is someone better* Stark and Jon *she’s the best they could ask for* Snow

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