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#i apologise in advance this is entirely self-indulgent
streets-in-paradise · 2 years
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What are your request rules and are your requests open?
Hi!! I'm so sorry for this super late answer. I didn't have much time on the computer and I don't like to write long answers on mobile because it never works right on my phone.
I haven’t wrote a proper post with guidelines, but thanks for reminding me I should. My blog is very small, I don’t get asks often and i think that’s why I always forget. 
To give you the most complete answer I can at the moment, I will begin for the requests status. Currently I have 5 requested WIPS on the process of being posted, what I know sounds like a lot, but I tend to leave my requests always open because i write from some underrated media (like the Troy movie) for which is literally impossible to find any character x reader fics out there. 
This mentioned lack on certain niche shit i like is what motivated me into becoming a fanfict writer in the first place. So, because i understand how frustrating it feels, I try to stay always open for requests. It may take me a while to complete every request, but I try to take in as much as I recieve. 
Now, about my rules. I don’t have a specific guideline in mind yet. However I can approximate a few ideas of what i prefer to write and what I wouldn’t write. 
Basical Information 
1- It is highly appreciated if your request includes an idea you have in mind for me to work. It doesn’t matter if it is very vague or extremely detailed, if you include just a concept or a one paragraph descripted escenario. In both cases it helps, because it gives me a better approximation of what you want to see in the request ( and helps my own ideas to develop.) 
2- Most of my work is on the canon character x reader fanfict genre and that is what i have more experience with. I wrote very few things involving only canon characters and I rarely do any canon x canon fics. My only exception so far has been Helen x Paris of Troy, with only one requested fic i wrote about them and one in the list to post. 
3- Since it adjusts to what I know better from my personal experience, most so far has been canon x fem reader. I have got very few requests, the majority of what I wrote has been written for and from my own self indulgent ideas. 
This doesn’t mean I wouldn’t try anything else, but I only state it to warn that this is my comfort zone. I can of course try on canon x male reader or canon x gender neutral reader, but those would be my first ever attempts writting from that perspective. I would try, but apologise on advance because those would be my first practices. 
One of my biggest fears is to feel like the “ male writers when writing women” meme. Besides that, my native language (spanish) it’s a horror of genderized words that make extra hard to completely degenderize my thinking when writing. Just to give you a simple example, the word chair has an assigned femenine article even when it is an inanimated object (la silla).
It would be harder, but I can give it a shot to see how it goes. 
What I Would/ Wouldn’t Write
- I don’t write smut in requests because I feel I don’t have enough experience to write for others on that. There is only one smut post in my entire masterlist, that I wrote from an idea I had. 
- Fluff, angst and all the other standard fic genres are welcomed. 
- Canon x Reader is what i prefer to write, but I can try fics centered in one only canon character or random interactions of multiple canon characters. What I tend to stay away from is canon x canon ship fics. 
Fandoms 
I don’t have the amount of time available right now to make a full list of all the media I am either writing for or could be inclined to write. 
For now, I’m just going to say that what I am vibing the most at the moment is: the Troy (2004) movie, the Chucky tv series ( specially Adult!Andy Barclay), Pirates of the Caribbean ( i accepted a few request after some talking about Orlando Bloom characters I love) and I recently added Stranger Things to the list because I got Eddie Munson brainrot like the rest of Tumblr. 
Thanks for asking!! 
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clueative · 3 years
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Spring loves to dance. Fredbear would rather observe than participate.
But perhaps he can make an exception for just one dance.
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dolliedarlin · 2 years
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HHHHIIII!!! I wanted to start off by saying that I love your fics and I'm excited to see what you have in store for the future. By far my favorites are "Kiripima" and "Bakusquad P.A series".
Speaking of the "Bakusquad P.A series" imagine this- Imagine a senerio where the reader already has a child, more specifically a daughter. Like she either got hit with a quirk to make her pregnant. Or maybe her ex got her pregnant and left cause he didn't want to deal with the baby(Why do I picture all of the Bakusquad trying everything in their power to hunt him down and personally beat the sh*t out of him??)Anyways, years pass and her daughter is a teenage now. And I cackle thinking about the squad trying everything to get her daughter to like them. Also are really protective. And she did hate them at first because of ✨trust issues✨, she does warm up to them...eventually. But still pretends to hate them just to upset them😂🤣. If there's anything you want to add, feel free.😚✌🏼️ Thanks🧡❤️💛🖤💖🤍
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that's so kind! thank you, dollface, i really appreciate it ^7^ and i'm so happy to hear that you enjoy both series' since they're both very dear to me too <3
(goodness...i have a lot of scenarios piled up in my ask box, i think it's time i go through them properly XD and stop keeping people waiting)
i'm already such a sucker for single parent aus! you're hitting my weak spot here!
goodness! y/n's daughter would be at that age where she's rebellious and had recently found out the truth of the situation - it's a really tense time! and y/n being the amazing mother and person she is, puts her daughter before herself every time
she does it so often and with such loyalty and dedication to her daughter's happiness, her daughter can see the boundless selflessness y/n's displaying is slowly eating away at her - y/n slowly becomes a little depressed but is always putting on a brave face for her daughter and that's when her daughter reaches out to her apologising for how selfish she was being and that she's so grateful for having such an amazing mother. this intimate exchange happens late at night when y/n is stressed and going through work in advance just to calm herself down
daughter: mum?
y/n: yes? what is it sweetheart? *quickly finishes up a not and looks away from work, paying full attention to her daughter with an exhausted smile*
daughter: *silently stares at y/n's tired but loving expression before bursting out crying and apologising profusely* i'm sorry mommy! i'm so s-...*hic* so sorry!
y/n: sweetie?! *panicks and brings daughter into her arms* what's wrong? what happened? talk to me...*gently caresses daughter's cheek, wiping away her tears and with a face full of worry*
daughter: i'm just...i'm so sorry for being so selfish all the time...i-i-! y-you deserve to find someone that really loves you a-and because i can't trust anyone you're-you're...it's just n-no one is good enough f-for you-! b-but you're s-so sad all the time now a-and i can tell! i'm not stupid *takes a shaky breath and buries her teary face into y/n neck* i just love you so much...i'm sorry for being such a horrible daughter
y/n: oh sweetheart...*smiles but tears surfacing* i love you too and you're not horrible...you're my loving daughter and you mean the world to me. please don't ever think of yourself as that; i know you're a very considerate and kind girl...*both begin crying into each other's shoulder* i love you...truly, mommy loves you...my baby
(s-such a sweet mother and daughter moment 🥺)
after this, your daughter puts in more effort to get along with the bakusuad and she instantly falls for Mina - she's been holding back the entire time actually and could finally let herself love mina as another parental figure as well as best friend. this leads to multiple girls nights inside and out. sometimes, you're all indulging in self care, painting each others' nails and putting on face masks while munching on popcorn with your favourite movies playing on in the background. other nights, you all dress up and go to a fancy restaurant or high social event where you treat yourselves like the queens you are!
the boys are jealous but they're just happy that mina was able to make that step with you and your daughter. and bc of that, they know that soon enough it'll be their turn so they wait patiently...at least, bakugou, kirishima and sero do, denki can't take waiting around - he's a do-er not a respectfully-sit-around-er! so he goes in and starts forcing small dates, buying her things and trying to get really close to her but that only make her push him away more (of course). thankfully, each time, denki tries to force any outing or presents onto her, he is stopped by sero who drags him away pitifully. it comes to a point where your daughter has sero's number on speed dial just to keep denki in check. eventually, sero starts bonding with her more than denki.
it's not fair so denki openly protests and sulks until your daughter finally gives in only to have more fun with the duo than she'd like to admit. the outings they take her to are so adventurous and despite it being out of her comfort zone, they take such good care of her and treat her so gently that she can't help but love them for their fun antics and chaos; their kindness and patience.
all this progress makes her begin wondering about bakugou and kirishima. they're both pretty popular and, therefore, busy pro heroes so she can understand them not having the time to bond with her like the others but it does hurt her to know that they aren't putting in as much effort as the others. that same hurt quickly turns into bitterness and spite for the two before the others quickly make all of that disappear
Sero: you know...since i told kirishima you liked that amusement park so much, he rented it out for us to go crazy in this weekend.
daughter: really?! b-but what about the people at the resort that comes with the park? *sero slowly begins to grin toothily as daughter gasps* omg! he booked that too?!
*another time*
denki: y'know bakugou went to your tai kwon do tournament yesterday *laughs* and he gave y/n the day off so they both went to see you. they took lots of pictures too since sero, mina and i couldn't come with patrols and all!
daughter: b-but why didn't he tell me or greet me, even? *in disbelief, whispers to herself* why did i only see mum?...
denki: he said he didn't want to put you in an awkward place, him being the number one hero and all and besides! you were the champion! he wasn't about to take the spotlight away from someone so well deserving of it *wink*
daughter: *blushes and smiles softly* my old man isn't like that at all...
soon enough, she opens her heart to them and now you're all a big and happy family! isn't that fun and happy? ^7^ that is...until she and y/n both find out the entire squad hunted down your horrible ex/her deadbeat dad and sent him to jail for unpaid child support and unlawful use of his quirk. you both found out through the news and through the fancy dinner and weekend beach resort get-away (plus more) they treated you two to, using the same money that disgusting guy owed you ;)
happy happy happy all around!
(please excuse the lack of proofreading and editing, this was basically a mind blurt XD)
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satoruswifeyyy · 3 years
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PERIOD CARE - ft. HAIKYUU
Featuring: the captains - Bokuto kotarou, Kuroo Tetsuro, Oikawa Tooru, Terushima Yuji, Daichi Sawamura, Ushijima Wakatoshi, Kita Shinsuke.
Type: Headcanons, gn!reader
Warnings: fluff, periods, period cramps, use of painkillers and just usual period stuff, swearing (only in kitas part)
Note: this was very self indulgent as I'm on my periods and also a hormonal mess while writing it so I apologise in advance if there are typos or errors. Otherwise I hope you enjoy &lt;3
1. BOKUTO KOTAROU
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In general, this boy gives you the best cuddles but when you're on your periods he makes sure he doesn't let you go. (He's the good kinda clingy boi)
You're always wrapped around his arms anytime he's around.
He would miss practice so he could take care of you.
He would order you food because he knows he would burn down the kitchen attempting to cook for you.
He would would rub your back when you complained of back pain
Bokuto would 100% make dumb jokes to make you laugh and show you the funniest memes to distract you from your pranks.
He's always ready to get you your painkillers if you hurt too much.
This guy panics at times when you tear up from the pain but he would immediately stroke your hair and help you forget about it.
In conclusion: Best boyfriend award goes to this boi <3
2. KUROO TETSUROU
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Tetsu would choose the BEST movies period.
He would know exactly what you wanna watch and this boy would sit the whole movie with you and constantly strokes your hair followed by forehead kisses. (Ah to be kissed by Kuroo Tetsurou!)
He would cook your favourite meals and feed them to you too!
He'll make sure you take your meds on time.
oh oh and he would use absurd Chemistry pick up lines but he'd always ALWAYS start with "You know, you must be made of Copper and Tellurium because you're CuTe!" and from there it would take him a while to stop.
When you feel really down, his first priority would be to make you feel like the best person in the world.
He'd go through old pictured with you and make you feel so special as possible.
he'd whisper into your ears and say things like "You've become prettier." "I'm so happy I got you all to myself..." and things that would make your heart melt (I want Kuroo so bad rn)
In conclusion: Sappiest, most wholesome boyfie you could ask for <3
3. OIKAWA TOORU
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The moment you say you've gotten your periods this boy will be at your doorstep with a mini spa in his bag.
I'M NOT EVEN KIDDING! This guy would walk straight to your bedroom and apply a face mask for you and himself.
You both would LITERALLY bitch about the guys and girls in your school.
Tooru know ALL the TEA. you both would just sit the entire day and while away time as he pampers you with all the goodies he bought on the way.
This guy would give you a head to toe spa treatment and say "Okay time for Royalty to get their BeAuTy SleEp!!" and you would fall asleep instantly because this guy would've prolly given you the best head massage!
When you feel really low (which is rarely cause Oikawa doesn't let that happen) he would make you tea and give you an entire speech on "Why Oikawa Tooru cannot live without Y/n L/n" and by the end of it you'd be on the bed laughing so hard!
Oikawa would also give you the softest kisses on your lips and tell you how lucky he is to have a lovely person like you...
In conclusion: Why worry about self care when Prince Oikawa is there? <3
4. TERUSHIMA YUJI
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This guy turns you on more than anything.
He knows that better than anyone else too.
Teru is surprisingly good at making meals and he would attempt to make your favourite.
His favourite thing to do is watch you eat the food he makes and he would laugh at the "constructive criticism" you gave him.
He would get you a flower or two as soon as he walks in.
Teru would bring his guitar and play you a few song after he makes your bed, fluffs the pillows, and puts a warm blanket on you, gently tucking you in.
He would play the songs you like and a few songs he wrote about you.
In conclusion: He's a baddie who happens to be your boyfie who becomes a softie (watch me cringe when I read this later) <3
5. DAICHI SAWAMURA
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Dadchi would be at your beck and call,
You need him and he knows it and would do anything to make you feel better.
He would stock up on everything you need (pads, tampons whatever you need)
He would bring a projector and play videos or make funny things with his hands.
He would give you the warmest hugs and make you feel as warm as possible.
He would keep hot water near you and remind you every fifteen minutes and make sure you stay hydrated! (stay hydrated my loves)
Dadchi would make sure your sweet cravings are satisfied.
He would stargaze with you when you cant sleep or he would talk to you until you fall asleep (such a gentlemen TvT)
In conclusion: Dadchi will forever take care of you <3
6. USHIJIMA WAKATOSHI
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Ushiwaka prolly has no clue what your body is going through so he would just hang out with you as usual.
But after a few times he got you that mood changing octopus so he knows when you got your periods.
This boy would LEGIT stand at the isle and stare at the different sizes of pads/tampons and wouldn't know what to buy you but he would ask someone around him and get you the right one.
He's quick to learn so after you got your periods the next month he would do whatever he knows. (This sentence confused me too sob)
In conclusion: Ushiwaka is very clueless but he makes it work <3
7. KITA SHINSUKE
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"Keep this warm rice sock on your stomach" "How the fuck do you know?" (He surprises you every single time bae.)
Les be honest here, he knows your period cycle better than you.
He has EVERYTHING stocked up two days before.
HE ALSO HAS ALL YOUR PLAYLISTS AND FAVOURITE MEALS READY!
Kita would know exactly when you need him like "K-" "Babe, you must be hungry. I brought you your favourite"
You guys would just chill all day until Kitano goes "You should walk a lil." (Yeah its Kita. We shouldn't be surprised)
But but when it comes to bad periods cramps this guy has all the remedies laid on a silver platter and ALL OF THEM WORK!
In conclusion: Kita is perfect boi! <3
That's all! Hope you like it!
Trust me I enjoyed writing this a bit too much!
Masterlist here!
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justiceraffles · 3 years
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"Hey, what if MK was a horribly written telenovela with a poorly conceived mystery storyline that's tied together in the most precarious of ways with nonsensical plotpoints and was also endgame Hakukai" So here's the start to my Hakukai longfic! I have a lot of things to say about this story so I'll just ramble about it at length beneath the cut if anyone's interested in my nonsense notes. Otherwise,
Read Here
I've been working on this thing on and off for a year and a half now, it lives rent free in my head every day and has been editted, restructured, and rewritten a lot. I've been very apprehensive about sharing it. ...To be honest, I still am! It's a chaotic story where I just allowed myself to write the most self-indulgent thing I could muster. This entire plot is an amalmagation of random things and ideas I like. It feels like a niche concept that is very messy and ???¿¿¿¿??? why did I make this
But, I guess that also makes it a very "me" story, so having fun with it and writing something that just brought me joy is what matters most, ultimately.
(aaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA)
I'm very thankful to everyone who has read the outline and concept for it or just listened to me ramble about the incoherent plot and characters or cheering me on when I've been kinda anxious about it— it's thanks to that support despite this being such a specific and ¿¿¿ idea that I've found the courage to actually share it. I'm very grateful and I hope you guys can enjoy something in it o)-(
So, about the fic,
It's a story about Hakuba! I think we are all well aware that jokes about his long absences and infrequent appearances are very commonplace (where in the world is hakuba saguru??? TT) and it unfortunately leads to him being forgotten and overlooked often. The initial concept that inspired this fic was "Hey, what if Hakuba stopped showing up for real?" and explore the implications this would have on the MK storyline (and Kaito, by extension). I wanted to make a plot where he was allowed to be the protagonist of his own story, highlight his worth as a detective, his role in the main narrative, and the depth of his relationship with Kaito. It's a Hakuba Saguru Appreciation fic, first and foremost!
So, the romance itself is very slow burn. There is a lot of plot, because I have a lot of fun with ridiculous, contrived stories haha. It takes a while for the story to be fully set up, and Kaito doesn't make a proper, official appearance until the end of Chapter 2.
Chapter 1 is rather lengthy and sets the context and plot from Hakuba's POV, Chapter 2 focuses on establishing where his relationship with Kaito (as well as Aoko and Akako) stands at the moment, and Chapter 3 onward starts seeing the first proper developments in the relationship.
It's a bit rocky at first and they have a lot of ups and downs but I promise they work it out (I promise!!! I swear!!!) I tried my best to maintain a balance between the fluffy and angsty moments, but I have to admit it's quite dramatic at parts lol I enjoy stupid, trashy drama a lot sometimes— this is the reason I'm calling it a bad telenovela.
Despite the fact that this is very plotty, their feelings for each other are the guiding force behind the storyline, and their relationship does take center stage later on. The romance is in no way secondary, it just takes a long while to fully develop. They most definitely get a happy ending, but you can expect this to be 95% pining.
The story starts out some years after the current events in the MK manga. Pandora hasn't been found yet, and KID is still active. On the other hand, the DC canon is used very loosely; the conflict has long since been resolved. The BO was taken down years before the start of this story.
The two plots aren't too deeply intertwined here, they just intercept at parts. References to DC events appear here and there and some elements and character interactions overlap, but they tend to be minor for the most part. This is primarily a MK story and I wasn't too worried about completely integrating both plotlines (or staying 100% accurate to the DC plot, for that matter).
Of course, because this is MK-centric, Aoko and Akako are involved with the overarching story and have major roles to play.
In terms of DC characters, Masumi, Shiho, Heiji and Shinichi play semi-prominent roles in the story. I've tagged Masumi from the getgo because she appears in the first chapter, but I'll add the others when I get to the little arcs they show up in. Save for some specific contributions they have, they aren't too deeply involved with the overall plot progression, but the interactions Hakuba has with them are important for his character development and his better understanding of his relationship with Kaito. Basically each of these characters gets some sort of little story arc in which they interact with/help Hakuba in some way. I arbitrarily chose who I wanted him to interact with, lol.
Speaking of arbitrary decisions— Miss Masumi!!!! She's the first character that shows up in this and interacts with Hakuba. I understand this is probably a strange choice. Because I really wanted to flesh out Hakuba's detective methods and life in London a little more, I decided to use the very what if headcanon of Hakuba's maternal family and the Sera family being acquainted with each other. Like I said before, I didn't really want to connect DC and MK plots thoroughly, so the Akai family plotline isn't at all relevant here beyond a couple of passing mentions. I was mostly interested in Hakuba having an MI6 connection without the need of using another OC and I just wanted to imagine what a hypothetical dynamic between him and Masumi would be like.
And then, OCs. There's a couple of OCs with pretty major roles here as well. Really major— probably in equal measure to Aoko and Akako. I apologise in advance! I really needed them to properly build the detective/mystery aspect of the plot, and the more I wrote, the more they became involved with the story and relationship progression TT I really enjoyed writing them a lot, and I'm satisfied with how they turned out here. I understand OCs with prominent roles aren't everyone's cup of tea, though. Even though I enjoyed writing them, I'm a little self-conscious about how relevant they ended up being when they were originally just going to be there as a plot device to kickstart things ;;; Hopefully someone can find enjoyment in them nonetheless. They are most heavily involved with the story after the midpoint, but they appear all throughout.
I'm really nervous about the choices to have Masumi and major OCs in this story...I understand it is likely these things will make this story a little too niche. But!!!!!!!!! Again!!!!!!!!!!!!! Having fun with it is what matters most Raffles!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get that through your thick skull!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, please expect the most convoluted explanation to Pandora. There is a lot of made up lore I had a blast writing but it's all probably needlessly complicated.
In summary, it's a detective story starring Hakuba that somehow ended up reading like a dramatic post-breakup/getting back together soap opera.
A significant portion of this has been prewritten, so my (ideal) plan is to have weekly or biweekly updates (but hmmmm let's see how long that lasts until I decide to scrap and rewrite everything out of embarrassment— this is very likely, I second-guess myself a lot)
I keep dragging it through the mud, but I've actually had a blast writing it, even though there's A Lot going on and I'm not very confident in it being decent enough to share.
With all that, I hope someone else can maybe find some enjoyment reading it.
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emperorsvornskr · 4 years
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Grounding
@hollandswife asked: ok but kylux where schizo!kylo is having an episode, and hux calms him down by watching the holonet and feeding him his favorite tea and snacks? is this an entirely self indulgent request? why yes it is !
There really needs to be more fic for characters on the schizophrenic spectrum being treated with more respect! I did my best writing this as someone who is autistic/has BPD/PTSD/anxiety, so I apologise in advance if I mishandled anything! Thank you for the prompt, @hollandswife ♥
Kylo is usually an oddball, and Hux has gotten used to this. He has his more… intense moments, and Hux is used to those, too. Usually the Knights of Ren are around to handle their Master, and Hux doesn’t have to deal with him when he has a meltdown.
It isn’t until after a few hours of prying that Hux understands Kylo is having episodes because he’s schizophrenic, and his irritation changes to tolerance, and softens to sympathy. He knows enough about trauma and anxiety to know the last thing Kylo Ren needs is something as empty, dehumanising and worthless as pity.
He’s never experienced one of Kylo’s full blown episodes, however, and he isn’t sure how he found himself with Kylo in his quarters, panicked and recoiling at various stimuli. He does know, however, what he doesn’t like when he’s having a panic attack, what helps him- and what grounds him when he dissociates. So he figures, maybe, just maybe, he can help Kylo before he hurts himself.
Most of what Kylo’s saying doesn’t make sense to him- his words are disjointed, as though his brain is moving faster than his lips and voice can speak the thoughts being processed. Hux doesn’t ask him to repeat himself, he doesn’t tell him he’s not making sense. He simply helps steer Kylo to the couch while he orders some food to be brought up to his quarters.
He’s careful not to touch Kylo, as the other man is flailing at his arms, and swiping at his body with his palms in the manner of someone trying to rid themselves of a swarm of insects. Hux isn’t sure if he should tell Kylo there are no insects- not when Kylo can clearly feel them, so he settles for offering Kylo some tea. The first cup is hot, only lightly sweetened- he hopes the edge of bitterness will help ground him, that the heat will soothe him.
“Is there something you’d like to watch, to take your mind off things?” Hux asks softly, careful to remove the pillows from the couch.
Kylo doesn’t respond immediately, another string of words escaping him in a jumble before he takes a tentative sip of the tea. He grimaces, but Hux notices his hands are shaking just a degree less. Encouraged, Hux activates his large display monitor and flips through various programs before settling on a soothing animated holovid of the adventures of a Loth cat raised by Loth wolves. Kylo is immediately distracted, but his nerves are still firing, his anxiety still high. Hux seizes the opportunity, and sits beside him.
“It’s four in the morning. You’re in my quarters on our flagship, the Finalizer, your name is Kylo Ren, and you’re okay, you’re alive, and you’re safe,” Hux says softly. “This is not a delusion, you are the person behind your eyes, and you’re safe.”
Phasma says something very similar to him during his panic attacks- and he says the same to her, when she does have them, though they are exceedingly rare compared to his own, with much more seemingly obscure triggers that Hux still doesn’t know exactly.
Hux wants to take his hands, to assure him it’s okay, but he sees how Kylo is still alternating his hands to swipe at the insects only he can see and feel. Hux gets up silently, moving to the door as he receives a ping at the door. The food he ordered is there, and Hux brings it inside. He sets the tray on the couch beside Kylo- an invitation to eat, but not an order. The tray is laden with scrambled eggs, toast, and fruit from the cafeteria- it’s almost breakfast time, and it’s better than protein bars.
Kylo’s eyes move to the plate, then his hands, which shake again, and Hux’s face softens.
“They’ll get in the food,” Kylo says quietly, his voice tight. Hux picks up the tray, sitting on the couch and placing the tray on his own lap.
“Not if I help,” he says matter-of-factly, his tone all business- that no insects are going to get in the way in his room. He lifts a forkful of eggs to Kylo’s lips, and Kylo, with all the gratitude Hux has ever seen on his face, opens his mouth and takes the bite of food gratefully.
Hux repeats the motions patiently- bites of egg, sips of tea, pieces of toast torn off, sections of fruit. Hux is patient, gentle, and all the while, Kylo’s attention is between the food, the video, and Hux’s soft words of comfort. After half an hour, and nearly all the food has been eaten, Kylo finally stops worrying at his arms, and has relaxed into the couch. He looks tired, drained, and Hux knows the postdrome phase all too well.
Hux fetches a blanket from his bed, and wraps Kylo in it. Seeking the warmth and security, Kylo snuggles into the blanket almost eagerly. Hux prepares him a second mug of tea, this time a sweeter variety- paricha, with cream and sugar. The warm, spiced tea calms Kylo further, and Hux patiently helps Kylo pull off his boots so he can curl up in the blanket on the couch and watch the holovid.
“Stay?” Kylo asks quietly, almost meekly from his blanket cocoon on the sofa, his eyes wide and imploring- still nervous and afraid, still raw from his episode. Hux thinks of all the times he could have used someone beside him after his panic attacks, and sits beside him without a word.
Kylo is silent for a few minutes, sipping his tea, his eyes on the soothing, fluid animation of the video, then he turns to look at Hux. There’s no words that escape him, only a look, and a gentle, unspoken request that is more a tired mental image projected into Hux’s mind.
He wants Hux’s reassuring presence.
Hux rarely smiles in a soft manner, but he does at that instant as he moves beside Kylo, lifting one side of the blanket to slide in beside him, wrapping them both up in the soft warm cloth, allowing Kylo to lean against him, resting his head against his shoulder. Hux rests his chin on the top of Kylo’s head, the black hair soft against his jaw. He wraps an arm around Kylo’s shoulders under the blanket and rubs his shoulder reassuringly- though very careful to make sure Kylo knows it’s his hand, and not anything else.
“Thank you,” Kylo says, his voice thick.
“You’d do the same for me, I like to think,” Hux says off-handedly.
“I would,” Kylo replies. “I will. I promise.”
Hux isn’t sure he should hold Kylo to that, but the thought is nice, and he rolls it around in his head as they watch the white Loth cat run across the gold fields of Lothal with a pack of wolf pups, and Kylo slowly returns to himself in safety.
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lnconclusive · 3 years
Text
how I’ve been feeling
23/10/2020
Why hello - welcome to my sad place. As you may have guessed given the fact I’ve resurrected my use of tumblr (often synonymous with sad, moody angst), I’ve not been feeling That Good recently. It really be like that sometime. 
Firstly, I want to apologise if I’ve been a little distant or been ridiculously bad at replying over the last wee while. It’s not malicious or intentional, I’ve just had a lot on my mind. You might not even have noticed since I tend to pretend Everything is Fine! a bit too often. I do this a lot: if I pretend everything is normal, I’d kinda feel that way too, right? If only lmao.
Second, I’m warning you in advance that this post is long, dramatic and self-indulgent. Though, I’m not sorry for being dramatic. My mental health hasn’t been great and in all honesty, it has been a pretty dramatic and turbulent couple of weeks for me. My mood has plummeted, my focus absolutely shot and I’ve cried more in the last few weeks than I probably have in the last 5 years. Being dramatic is probably the best way for me to actually address how I’m feeling head-on, rather than suppress my feelings as I always do. 
Anyway - what’s up? Basically: my skin is fucked right now. (Also, this is going to be very long so I’ve added some subheadings for signposting haha.)
History w eczema 
I’ve never had an easy relationship with my skin. As most of you probably know, I have eczema. Those who know me from primary and intermediate especially know that back in the day, I had Very Bad Eczema. But in reality - I had VERY very bad eczema, which has scarred me for life in a number of ways. Again I kinda wish I was just being dramatic, but thinking back to my childhood and realising that I used every single birthday wish I’ve ever had wishing for ‘normal’ skin, makes me realise that my eczema really did have a debilitating effect on both my mental and physical health. 
As a kid, my eczema was very difficult. It wasn’t just the tiny bits of eczema on your hand or elbow like most kids had, it was whole body eczema which was hell. I could barely sleep most night because I would scratch the entire night and wake up (from a few disrupted hours of sleep) bleeding and stuck to the sheets. For anyone that has travelled with me or shared a bed with me, you know I scratch subconsciously in my sleep - I often laugh it off, but imagine how bad it must have been for scratching to have become ingrained in my brain, even when I’m at my deepest stage of sleep. 
Anyway, as a kid I looked hideous, and mentally I don’t think I’ve ever recovered from that. Being a flaky, scab covered girl was hard - if I myself thought I was hideous, what did everyone else think of me when they had to look at my face? My arms? My legs? I often say to people that we can trace a lot of our personality traits back to our childhood - and for me, most of my most negative personality traits link directly to the mental scars of eczema. Deep insecurity about how I look, constant worry about what people think about me and what people are saying about me, and an obsession with trying to ‘prove’ myself all stem from my eczema. And unfortunately, these traits have stuck around and get triggered the worst whenever my skin gets bad. 
But miraculously, my eczema subsided a bit in high school and uni. It was amazing; my confidence and acceptance of myself was finally turning! I finally felt normal. I am immensely grateful that I got to experience these last few years with very manageable levels of eczema. Even though I bristled and felt extremely uncomfortable anytime someone would mention my skin (especially if I was having a slight flare-up), it was really nothing compared to what I had gone through when I was younger - when my entire self-image was essentially defined by eczema. 
However, my eczema never really went away (despite my birthday wishes). I was told by the countless doctors and dermatologists that “eczema fades away when you hit your teenage years, don’t worry!” And for the last few years, I’ve clung to that, telling myself that I had finally gotten out of that cycle. Only, that wasn’t really the case. 
Sept 2020: topical steroid withdrawal 
I won’t delve into the specifics too much now, but essentially I’ve been prescribed topical steroid creams to deal with eczema for as long as I can remember. Ever since I was young, I’ve been on and off topical steroid creams which was my best friend - it would always incredibly clear up my most stubborn spots of eczema, and finally I’d feel a bit of relief. In high school, I started using gentle steroid creams on my face to combat my (incredibly) high levels of insecurity. And so my entire life has just revolved around using steroid creams; to make me feel better, normal, and not hideous.
But the issue is: you’re really not supposed to be on steroids forever. It should clear a particularly tricky spot of eczema up, and then you shouldn’t need it anymore. Yet, I’ve been on steroids (on and off) essentially since I was 8. Whoops.
And so my skin (and my mental health to some extent) has become both reliant and addicted to steroid creams in a bid to keep my eczema at bay, to just look normal. There is a whole (but very scary) area of the internet on this very thing - its called Topical Steroid Withdrawal, and is basically where people who have misused and become dependent on steroids. If you try to stop using steroids, you have to deal with a horrifying recovery process where your body has to essentially relearn how to do all the things the steroids did. When I found out about this ‘addiction' to steroids when googling during a relatively bad flare up last year, everything clicked. I knew without a doubt that this is me - that I was dependent and addicted to steroids, and if I ever stopped, my skin couldn’t function on its own. But I couldn’t come to terms with it, and just forged on with my steroid use and ignored all the red flags - until a few weeks ago, when I decided that for my long term health, I wanted to finally cut off using steroids, for good.
But: Topical Steroid Withdrawal is not easy. In fact, it is very very hard. If you google it, there are countless horrifying stories and images. It’s a process that can last for years for people, and turns their life upside down. I don’t wanna go into it too much, but it really is, truly very scary. And I’m just starting the process now - yikes. But there is some good news: most people who successfully stop using steroids eventually return their skin to a state where its ‘normal’, without any use of steroids. This is what I am desperately hoping for, and working towards.
I’m only about a few weeks in but my skin is Not Doing Well. My face is a dry, flaking mess (since that’s where I’ve concentrated my use of steroids over the last few years), which burns anytime I put any moisture on it. I’ve not been able to sleep because I keep scratching myself raw at night. Parts of my skin is quite frankly disgusting rn, and I hate it. And mentally, I can’t stop thinking about worse case scenarios (what if my skin doesn’t get better, what if I’m like this forever, what if my entire body breaks down) while all my insecurities flare up again, but worse. Honestly, I’ve been finding it really hard dragging myself out of bed; firstly bc my skin hurts so bad its more comfortable not to move lmao, but also because I’m so self conscious and sad I don’t want to do anything sometimes.
It’s a very very uncertain and long term process, and my mind has been a jumbled mess over the last while. I’m scared of the next few months, scared that I won’t be able to start my job normally, and scared of the recovery process. But thankfully, I’m not doing as bad as I could be. Other people’s stories and photos are a thousand times worse than mine, and I thank my lucky stars (if I have any) that my recovery is milder than it could be so far.
Going forward
It’s hard because I know that I’m my own worst enemy at the moment. I know without a doubt all of my beautiful friends would support and love me, even if I looked like a monster YET my brain can’t really compute that. I hate my skin so much at the moment, I’m so angry I have to go through this and so self conscious about each and every flake on my skin, that I keep dragging myself down. 
BUT: I’ve been working on it. I’ve taken these last few weeks to really reflect and (try) to accept whats going on, because frankly - what other choice do I have? Mentally, I’ve been getting stronger and I’m finding things to focus on other than my skin; aka uni, which can be ignored no longer. I’m finally talking to people about this whole thing rather than bottling it up which has helped enormously too. I’m feeling a lot more optimistic now than i was a few weeks ago - and I’m very very proud of myself for it. 
It’s still gonna be Rough! though. Physically I’m exhausted and mentally I have to remember to be nicer to myself. I have to deal with patches of skin which oozes and bleeds, and force myself to sleep even though my mind is so active I haven’t slept before 3 or 4am in a long time. BUT again, I’m working on it. 
With Victoria probably opening up again soon, I’m in two minds about the whole thing. On one hand I have fiercely missed all of you SO much and want to see and hug all of you so so much; on the other hand, I’m so self-conscious that I kind of want to hide forever. I think I’m going to take my time, slowly open up myself to real people again, and not put any pressure on myself. I’m sorry in advance if I don’t see you for a while - I promise when I’m feeling better I’ll be back and as annoying as ever! 
OKAY I think that is probably enough wallowing (but very cathartic wallowing though) for today. I wanna reassure everyone that I’m doing !!okay!! despite how dramatic I’ve sounded above; I’m doing better now, and I’m determined to be a Bad Bitch and get over this whole thing as best I can. Writing this has been very therapeutic, and I honestly think I’m hitting a turning point towards acceptance which I am so grateful to finally reach. I’ve also (spoiler alert) cut myself some full bangs lol - pls pretend to like them next time I see you either virtually or in person (they’re not fantastically cut given I chopped them last night with Julie’s scissors from like high school, but it was a very therapeutic process lmao with the added benefit that it covers up my flaking, dry forehead too). 
ANYWAY I love y’all, and I’ll see you on the flip side (soon hopefully). 
Love, Michelle
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greenishbucket · 4 years
Text
Wu is Mako’s (new) boyfriend; Asami is Mako’s girlfriend and also Korra’s; Asami, Wu, and Mako go to brunch 🥞☕️ ao3
Mako is possibly the most delicious, beefiest, specimen -iest man that Wu has ever had the absolute privilege to lay his eyes (and hands) on. Not only that; he becomes thoroughly flustered every time Wu voices these correct opinions, gets delightfully exasperated at both intentional and unintentional attempts to elicit said exasperation, carries all of Wu’s shopping for him, and ranks definitely within the top three of the four people Wu has ever kissed.
So, really, after a few dates it’s all going quite swimmingly. And then one day when they’re out getting smoothies, Mako looks constipated a while, then says those four little words: “I have a girlfriend.”
“Oh,” says Wu, stomach sinking. He’s been feeling up Mako’s bicep for the better part of five minutes, as risqué as he dares considering he’s already pulled his chair round to Mako’s side of the table and he has some self-respect. He lets his hand drop.
But Mako quickly continues, “She knows about– um. She doesn’t mind.”
“Oh,” says Wu, spirits rising, award winning eyebrows back in the game, hands back to appreciating some truly glorious musculature. “Well, me neither. Mind, that is. I’d love to meet her, is she hot? Is she smart? Is she rich? Let’s get brunch.”
The way Mako says in reply, “Er, sure?” should have set off warning bells. However at this point, of course, Wu is fully and blissfully unaware that Mako’s earlier assurances of ‘not minding’ are – unbeknownst perhaps even to Mako – more or less lies.
-
The Asami Sato is, of course, the whole package: hot, smart, and rich. Wu doesn’t know if he wants to date her, be her, or watch her mind map something complex and pretend to understand any of it.
She does, against her favour, arrive to brunch late – although in fairness the only reason Wu knows this is because Asami herself apologises for it, despite the fact Wu is thirty seven minutes later still. Mako (accompanied by one stoic black coffee, a pointedly open menu, and Asami’s ankle pressed against his) looks ready to murder Wu over it.
“I’ll move past it I’m sure, as long as you’re not late again,” Wu kindly allows in the face of her apology. “Shall we eat? It’s so late we could hardly call this lunch! I’m starving.”
“This was your idea,” Mako points out.
“Yes,” Wu agrees, smiling. He does appreciate credit where credit’s due for setting the whole thing up. “And it’s been a great one, hasn’t it?”
“… Right.” Asami says, after looking between him and failing to catch Mako’s eye for a bit. She straightens herself up in her seat – such enviable posture! A point in her favour again – and carefully opens her menu. Wu throws himself into his seat and steals Mako’s menu, despite Mako’s protests, since Mako’s sure to order the same things as always and doesn’t need it.
“So, Asami, talk at me,” he begins, having picked a dozen or so dishes to start with. “Mako here hasn’t told me a thing, you’d think he was ashamed of you! Luckily I’ve read all about you, Future Industries is really doing some pioneering work – too soon to ask for a guided tour by the chief of making the magic happen herself?”
“A tour of where exactly?” Asami asks, eyebrows raised. “We have lots of offices and factories covering a lot of areas. We do guided tours for the schools sometimes.”
It’s not a no, which is excellent, but this particular topic is also a gap in Wu’s research. He’s not sure he actually gets technological advancements, or engineering, or whatever it is exactly Future Industries engages in. “Oh, you know,” he says, waving a hand. “Places. Whatever and wherever you’d like to share with a guy like me.”
“Right,” says Asami again. “I’m personally kind of busy, though. Sorry, what was it that you do for work again?”
Mako garbles something vague and explanatory about the company’s relevance to Wu’s studies, like Wu has ever used his degree or indicated he cares about university. Then without pausing for breath, or allowing Wu to begin on his singing career in the making, Mako moves on to, “How about we get the ball rolling, order some actual food?”
“Yeah, I think we’d better,” Asami agrees. Mako indulges in making a scene flagging the waiter down despite that being Wu’s job, almost spoiling Wu’s carefully coiffed ‘do in the process.
Once that’s over and everything has been ordered, even worse: Mako’s quick to make some kind of comment about sports. Wu can’t for the life of him care about pro-bending or whatever it is this week that he’s ‘supposed’ to care about, but Asami seems enthused. Like that Wu’s opportunity to sweet talk her falls to the wayside. He can feel his eyes glazing over.
He can appreciate, however, the way the ambiance and aesthetics of their comfortably upmarket little cafe fit Asami like a glove; one more point in her favour. Further still, once they move on from sports, she doesn’t talk with her mouth full, asks polite questions, and manages somehow to not smear her lipstick even a little until halfway through the meal.
Even then, it succeeds in being a demure little slip up, made practically endearing by her smile and laugh, and the way her eyes go soft when Mako tries to help and makes it ten times worse.
Wu isn’t stupid, though. Asami also clearly, vehemently, and silently despises Wu.
It’s not a case of complex relationships gone wrong. That isn’t what one Miss Sato minds at all. She seemed happy enough when Wu first arrived, if a little standoffish. Early on she mentions a girlfriend of her own – who she later clarifies, blasé, is the Avatar Korra – so it would be a little rich for her to reproach Mako for the same.
This leaves Wu with the baffling realisation that what Asami minds is that it’s him. That she dislikes him for– himself . Increasingly dislikes him as brunch goes on, if his own eyes are to be believed.
It’s an idea so absurd, especially considering Wu has been pulling out every one of his fail-safe charms, that it takes a while to sink in. Once it’s all come together, however, there’s no avoiding it. Asami hates him, is irritated by him, is clearly one careless moment from rolling her eyes and scoffing loud enough to call the attention of the entire cafe every time he speaks. Not in the way Mako looks similarly sometimes; in a serious, genuine, for real way.
Wu is astounded by this impossible turn of events, but soldiers on nonetheless. He has plenty to talk about and he’s pretty sure Mako enjoys it. Usually, anyway. Asami less so, from the way her eyebrows are speaking to him, but Wu is certain one of the topics is bound to turn the tide eventually, even if he has to request more drinks to soothe his rapidly drying throat.
An unfortunate side effect of this – plus all the thinking of tides – is that soon enough he desperately needs to use the bathroom.
“I’m off to the toilet,” he announces, interrupting whatever it was that was being said by someone else. “Don’t miss me too much.” He kisses Mako’s cheek, blows another to Asami that makes her eyes go wide, and goes to find the nearest staff member to direct him safely on his way.
Just before he’s out of earshot, he hears Asami groan, “Mako, are you nuts? How can you possibly stand hi–”
His staggering good looks, his scintillating conversational skills, his charm, his wit? Wu recognises he’s quite the force to contend with, it’s true. It’s a flattering sentiment, actually, and allows him to see the meal in a different, far more positive light. It’s understandable for Asami to be a little bowled over by it all, perhaps a little intimidated or disgruntled. To at first, mistakenly, dislike Wu.
But that can easily be fixed. As he convinces the barman to abandon his boring, unimportant duties to take Wu to the bathroom, a plan begins to form in his mind. The sense of unease that Wu had felt building in spite of himself as brunch went on finally dissipates.
It’s early days but Wu doesn’t intend to let go of Mako anytime soon, literally or figuratively. It’s clear that Asami and Mako aren’t on the rocks relationship-wise either. Wu doesn’t want them to be; he likes Mako happy, even if that happiness means he’s not paying attention to Wu directly, or talking about sports. And Wu would also like it if his boyfriend’s girlfriend liked him.
Asami is likely a busy woman, but Wu is already considering their options for afternoon drinks, then shopping, then evening drinks, an evening meal. Whatever it is that will put Asami and ease and begin something blossoming between them. They can get rid of Mako at some point, if need be, can even schedule dates weeks ahead. Just the two of them. Wu can accept readily his and Asami’s will be a platonic romance, a romance with an uneasy start, but a romance it will be.
He can hardly go around with Asami Sato, both as a matter of her being The Asami Sato and Mako’s Asami, disliking him.
As he washes his hands and takes a minute or twenty to check himself out in the mirror before heading into the battlefield once more, he tells himself with firm resolve: This can be done. I’ll just have to Wu her.
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hideinacrowd · 4 years
Text
T.w depression, suicide, self harm.
I apologise in advance... this rant is coming from a place of privilege and is very self indulgent and pathetic. You may think less of me and that is... well that is your perogative. At this point I am not sure I really care anymore.
So it is official.
My depression, anxiety and general bad health has officially robbed me of my relationship, my home, my job and my happiness.
I can no longer distance myself from these traits... these traits now officially define who I am... I have stopped trying to fight these... labels for lack of a better term.
I have been unable to leave the house since before lockdown started however have now been forced to relocate to my mums house.
I love my mum do not misunderstand however, to be very very blunt, I want to kill myself on a daily basis... my mum is not the person who helps at all... my mum in fact does make me feel worse accidentally... she really tries it just... doesn't. We are polar opposites in every way. My mum is very old fashioned, women aren't supposed to feel anything they just... prepare things for other people... and try fix thing for other people... I guess it is why I try and fix things for other people. I have also never been very good at this.
Now my relationship... my partner has kicked me out of our house as they need space. This would be absolutely fine... if I ever actually saw them. I don't. They spend their entire life at work or playing in the xbox and tossing me to the floor as they've had a better offer from someone else... I'm not even good enough for a text back. Now dont get me wrong, I am under no illusions that I am perfect in a relationship, I am most definitely not. However I do not think that the basics of being in a relationship is too much to ask. My partner is very extroverted and I am very introverted. My partner can't deal with my illnesses. I have been told it is me that is driving him away.
My job. I was employed through an agency. Have been there for nearly 2 years. I have been bullied at this job by a previous manager and all in all made to feel unwelcome by the majority of the people there. This may not have been intentional by a few of them... however I am not exaggerating to say that out of the 150 people who were in my building about 5 of them weren't backstabbing bitches... Now I actually enjoyed my job. The majority of people I worked with were not pleasant but the majority of customers were nice and I enjoyed and took pride in what I did for the customers. I am dyslexic and suspected to have ADHD so it may have taken me a little longer than the average person to complete the tasks provided however my stats were always good and I never had a complaint made about me. My second manager was a lovely person, they knew about my difficulties and asked me to keep them updated. Two weeks later I was told that I only need to tell her about things which are important and going to effect my work. I took this on the chin and began to suffer in silence as I was by this point so fed up that I could only apologise that the several migraines a day which were making me blind in one eye and stopping my limbs from working correctly may be affecting the volune of work I could complete. I have been off sick as my migraines have now gotten to a point where they are unmanageable, there is only so much pain a body can take before basic tasks become too difficult. I have now been told that I have been off too long and would need retraining and there isnt the facilities to do this so my contract has been ended. I have since found out that a colleague who went off the week before myself witg similar issues has not only kept there job but they're providing them with extra support.
To top all of this off, one of the drs at my surgery had amended my medication to review in 4 weeks. Now as previously mentioned I am in a lot of pain daily. I know when things change. I have to. It comes with the territory. I read through the leaflet with my medication. My other forms of medication are not supposed to be taken with the new one, like bug red letters, "DO NOT TAKE IF YOU ARE TAKING..." style... I ring my doctors back and advise that I have found this and to ask what the next best course of action is. I am told that I should just carry on taking them as "the previous dr would not have prescribed them if they were unsafe they must just react a little." I carried on taking them. I became horrendously unwell and was unable to get out of bed or function for 2 weeks. I am finally feeling a little better one day I call the drs. I am told to stop taking them immediately no wonder I have been ill taking them together can cause life threatening issues. My medication is changed again. I am advised that this change is going to be hard on my body. As they've taken me off the other ones fully I will get full blown withdrawal from them which can be pretty sinister. At the same time they also need to change the doses of other medications to compensate for the issues the incorrect medication has caused. I am a mess.
How individually these things may seem frivolous, and easily dismiable... I got hit with them all within 72 hours. I have been 2 years clean from harming. I am no longer. This has made things even worse as now I have the added guilt of this. No matter what I do it isnt good enough and how on earth can I expect to fix anything when I can't even fix my head.
I am broken. I am weak. I am lost.
I am no longer Becca. I am my disorders.
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Text
The Wise Man's New Clothes
by Dan H
Wednesday, 13 April 2011
Dan did not find the second volume of the Kingkiller Chronicles to be worth the wait~
I have stolen princesses back from sleeping barrow kings. I burned down the town of Trebon. I have spent the night with Felurian and left with both my sanity and my life. I was expelled from the University at a younger age than most people are allowed in. I tread paths by moonlight that others fear to speak of during day. I have talked to Gods, loved women, and written songs that make the minstrels weep. My name is Kvothe. You may have heard of me.
Thus begins the blurb on the back of the first volume of Patrick Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicles, and it's repeated on the second.
This is partly because, like many Fantasy novels, the Kingkiller Chronicles is really just one massive, massive novel chopped roughly into three parts. I suspect, however, that it's also partly because the blurb on the back of a book is usually a summary of what happens in the book, and despite weighing in at just shy of one thousand pages of densely printed text, the Wise Man's Fear is actually rather short on the “things happening” front.
If I had to summarize the entire book in twenty-five words or less I would do it like this:
Kvothe is awesome. He meets people who tell him how awesome he is, and they teach him to be even more awesome. The end.
As I so often say at the start of these articles: I am almost tempted to leave it there.
I'm not going to break down the sequence of events in the book, explain how Kvothe goes from the University to Vintas to Faerie to Ademre back to Vintas and back to the University – it's not really what happens in the book (insofar as anything happens) that I'm concerned about, it's the way in which the whole book collapses into a godawful mess of juvenile wish-fulfilment which undermines any hope I might have had for the series.
Oh, I should also add that this wound up getting far longer and far angrier than I intended. Sorry.
A Little Context
The Name of the Wind was spectacularly well received. Like spectacularly well. It won awards, it was praised by the likes of Orson Scott Card and Ursula le Guinn, it was one of those books people admitted to disliking only with a note of shame in their voices.
The book has become something of a poster child for what is best in the Fantasy genre – rich worldbuilding, clever storytelling, intricate plotting and a knowing deconstruction of the tropes and assumptions on which it is based (although to be honest, even in 2007 I was a little bored of deconstruction – it's still worth doing, but people really need to stop pretending that it's a new idea, I mean hell Elric was a deconstruction of the tropes of the fantasy genre).
I was
sceptical but ultimately positive
about the first volume, ultimately concluding that it was doing a lot of interesting things with the medium, and cleverly analysing the intersection between reality and myth, people and legends.
I was disappointed, therefore, to find myself reading a book which, amongst other things, devotes eleven out of its hundred and fifty two chapters to describing how its sixteen year old protagonist spent three days having sex with a hot faery woman who by the way thought he was totally awesome at sex.
The Double Standard
This bit is going to be a bit high-horsey, for which I apologise in advance.
Ages ago I read Trudi Canavan's Age of the Five trilogy and
concluded
that when you put all of the protagonist's skills end to end they made her look like a godawful Mary-Sue. But ultimately this was forgiveable because when you get right down to it The Age of the Five was mostly an enjoyable bit of girly fluff which wasn't trying to do anything serious.
For the record, at the start of the book Kvothe is one of the greatest musicians the world has ever seen, fluent in several languages, a precocious magician, able to call upon magic of a kind few even believe exists, able to climb walls and pick locks, a master artificer, skilled in both arts and sciences, endlessly resourceful and never ever meets a woman who doesn't fancy him. By the end of the book he's all of that, plus he's even better at magic, has learned secret martial arts techniques that make him better at fighting than anybody he will ever meet except for the people who taught him, has gained the ear of several powerful people, and has been taught secret sex skills by a hot older woman who never the less thought that he was pretty amazing at doing sex even before she taught him to be more amazing at doing sex (I will come back to this a lot because I think it's probably the most stupid and juvenile part of what I now am convinced is a fundamentally stupid and juvenile text).
What annoys me about Kvothe is not so much that he's a gratuitous Mary-Sue, but that despite this fact he is taken incredibly seriously by critics. People bitch about how unrealistic it is that everybody fancies Bella Swan, about how stupid it is for teenage girls to indulge in a fantasy where powerful supernatural beings are sexually attracted to them. People laugh at characters like Sonea and Auraya because they're just magic sparkly princesses with super-speshul magic sparkle powers. But take all of those qualities – hidden magic power, ludicrously expanding skillset, effortless ability to attract the opposite sex despite specifically self-describing as being bad at dealing with them, and slap it on a male character, and suddenly we get the protagonist of one of the most serious, most critically acclaimed fantasy novels of the last decade.
Of course you can't ever really say, for certain, how a book would have been received if you reversed the genders of its author and protagonist, but something tells me that a book about a red-haired girl who plays the lute and becomes the most powerful sorceress who ever lived by the time she's seventeen, and who has a series of exciting sexy encounters with supernatural creatures, would not have been quite so readily inducted into the canon of a genre still very uncertain about its mainstream reputation.
Imre
I know I said I wasn't going to go through the events of the book in detail, but I am going to discuss my irritation with the book in a broadly chronological sequence. This is simply because the book is so huge and so lacking in structure (beyond the obvious detail that some events happen after some other events) that it's far easier to think of it in terms of “The Imre Bit”, “The Vintas Bit”, “The Felurian Bit” and “The Ademre Bit”.
So the book starts off with Kvothe in Imre, where it's a straight continuation of Imre sections of the first volume. Kvothe is unable to pay his tuition again, which I wouldn't object to if it weren't for the fact that I've already read that plotline in book one (about the first quarter of the book, indeed, could be seen as the end of the first volume as much as the beginning of the second). We're thrown pretty much headfirst back into the setting, which was kind of jarring because dude, I read the original two years ago and I sure as hell won't be going back and rereading it to remind myself who Simmon and Kilvin and Exa Dal are (I did eventually remember, but I spent quite a while choking on name soup).
I'm afraid this article is going to be something of a list of Things That Annoyed Me. There were two Things That Annoyed Me about Imre.
The first was an issue that I remember having trouble with in the first book, which I have taken to referring to as the “poverty wanking”. Kvothe spends a lot of time being poor. He spends even more time telling the reader that if they have never been truly poor, they cannot understand what it is like to be poor. This is true, and I could almost accept this as a brave attempt to challenge the class privilege of his readership (and Lord knows I've got plenty of that – I've never had to deal with real shortage of money in my entire life, and I do absolutely take for granted the fact that food and housing and hot water and broadband internet access will be easily within my reach from now until the day I die) but there's just something about the whole thing that rings hollow.
I think mostly it's the fact that while Kvothe only has two shirts, and has to worry about finding the money to pay for his University tuition (something which, in his world, is itself a massive privilege, and one which Kvothe barely even needs given his precocious talent and secret route into the Archives) but he has several easy sources of income which, by the standards of his world, are very lucrative (he makes and sells magic artefacts for pity's sake; a profession for which only a handful of people in the world are qualified, and which he does better than pretty much anybody else out there), and he gets free room and board from a local tavern in return for his services as a musician (he also makes money performing at a local music venue, and while it's not much by the standards of the nobility it's certainly enough to live on). I'm annoyed by enforced poverty as a fictional trope at the best of times (why hello Season Six Buffy, fancy seeing you here) but Kvothe's constantly reminding us that “if you have never been truly poor, you will not understand” makes me want to throw something.
I know I'm on thin ice here, because frankly I'm as middle class as they come. I've never slept a night without a roof except that one time I went camping, I've never missed a meal except through laziness, I spent a year unemployed but I was well supported by my friends and relatives and live in a country with an adequate (if not generous) benefits system. I have, however, read a great many first-hand descriptions of real poverty from people who really haven't know where their next meal is coming from. Kvothe's life is nothing like the lives of those people, and barring the (extremely forced) homeless sequence in book one, it never has been. Kvothe does not read like a poor man who is forced to scrabble for every penny just to pay for life's necessities, he reads like a middle class kid who is jealous of the fact that his rich friends have better toys than he does. It wouldn't be a problem on its own, but the smug, sanctimonious insistence that I “cannot understand” his plight because I have “never known poverty” made me want to scream. No, I haven't known poverty, but Kvothe isn't poor, he's just not rich.
Sorry, that rant's been waiting for two years.
The second thing that annoyed me about the Imre sections was – well it wasn't really a feature of the Imre sections themselves, so much as the way they were resolved and led into the next bit of the plot. Kvothe's university shenanigans go on for a long time. Like I say, this is a long book. A long, long book. Again (I have mentioned this before, I will mention this again) the book spends eleven chapters describing how Kvothe totally got to score with a hot chick. It's long. It's wordy. The author bio on the inside back cover describes Patrick Rothfuss as somebody who “loves words, laughs often, and refuses to dance” and he seems to have chosen to demonstrate his love of words by including a great many superfluous ones.
The Imre section ends with Kvothe being put on trial for malfeasance (using magic for harm), and Kvothe pointedly refuses to discuss it despite the fact that (according to the Chronicler) it's a major part of his legend. This didn't bother me so much since I was pretty sure a long courtroom sequence would be deathly dull. Then, however, he gets an offer of patronage from the Maer of Vint, which requires him to take leave of the University and undergo a hazardous journey to a foreign kingdom. Here is how this journey is handled in the book:
Several unfortunate complications arose during the trip. In brief there was a storm, piracy, treachery, and shipwreck, although not in that order. It also goes without saying that I did a great many things, some heroic, some ill-advised, some clever and audacious. Over the course of my trip I was robbed, drowned, and left penniless on the streets of Junpui. In order to survive I begged for crusts, stole a man's shoes and recited poetry. The last should demonstrate more than all the rest how truly desperate my situation became. However, as these events have little to with the heart of the story, I must pass them over in favour of more important things. Simply said, it took me sixteen days to reach Severen. A bit longer than I had planned, but at no point during my journey was I ever bored.
Now okay, I get it. I really do. Because this is a serious fantasy novel which deconstructs genre conventions and plays with your expectations Rothfuss is deliberately glossing over a segment in Kvothe's life which, in a lesser novel, would be highlighted. I get it. I even get that because Kvothe is narrating the whole novel in first person, his choice to skip over this section reveals something about his character, both his jaded unwillingness to revel in tales of adventure and his almost childlike delight in subverting the expectations of Bast and the Chronicler (which parallel Rothfus' delight in subverting the expectations of his intended audience oh do you see how many levels this works on).
But.
This section appears on page three hundred and sixty five. It comes at the end of three hundred and sixty four pages which have been taken up with scenes where Kvothe converses with infuriatingly quirky girls (all of whom are hot), or infuriatingly eccentric old men (none of whom are hot), or with sequences which rehash plot threads which were already covered in the first book, or with endless conversations in which Kvothe engages in self-indulgent wordplay with either a hot quirky girl or an eccentric old man. I'm sorry but you do not get to bore my tits off with trivialities for three hundred and sixty pages (for those of you keeping score at home that's twenty pages more than the entirety of The God of Small Things) and then score points by not describing a sequence of events that might have actually included some incident.
Also: funnily enough, I have no idea why a sequence in which Kvothe escapes from pirates has “nothing to do with the heart of the story” when a sequence in which he talks to an annoying quirky girl, or one in which he wanders around the Archives for ages finding no interesting or useful information, or one in which invents a new machine for catching arrows, or a scene where a hot woman offers him sex and a fortune in return for access to the Archives and he refuses, or a scene where he shows how totally awesome at playing music he is, or yet more of his pointless back-and-forthing with Ambrose, or any of the other things which take up the first third of the book are somehow totally vital to it.
This is because I have no idea what the heart of the story is or is supposed to be, and I am pretty sure I will have no way of knowing what the heart of the story was supposed to be until the last page of the last volume. I mean as I understood it the story was supposed to be about Kvothe's pursuit of the Chandrian, and how his chasing legends ultimately led him to become a legend, but all I got in the first three hundred and sixty four pages of The Wise Man's Fear was minutiae and pointless worldbuilding. If Kvothe wanted to focus on the heart of the story, he could have summed up half of the first book and a third of the second as “I went to the University looking for information about the Chandrian, but I didn't find any.”
Vintas
After Kvothe arrives in Vintas, things actually get a lot better (at least for a while) and I found myself getting back into the swing of things. I could have done without his having arrived penniless, necessitating yet another sequence in which Kvothe tricks his way into the towers of the great with nothing but the clothes on his back and his native wit but it's all dealt with fairly quickly and Kvothe's interactions with the court of the Maer of Vint are relatively well done (although once again, it basically consists of Kvothe being amazing at everything, and all the people who matter deciding that they will immediately like, trust, and respect him because of his obvious natural superiority – sorry this was in fact the section I liked, I just really think it's important to remember that Kvothe's social interactions make Bella Swan look well articulated).
In Vintas, Kvothe does many great things for the Maer, including helping him win the heart of his intended bride, which he manages to do perfectly despite the fact that at this stage in his life one of Kvothe's vanishingly small number of weaknesses is a complete unfamiliarity with romance and an inability to deal with women.
Kvothe's final service for the Maer of Vint is to go north with a motley band of mercenaries and sort out some bandits. This they do, chiefly because Kvothe is able to call down lightning from the sky and kill a whole bunch of them. Now in the previous book Kvothe is remembered as calling down lightning from the sky, when what he really does is throw some flashpowder at some people. This provided a nice illustration of the book's central ideas about the difference between myth and reality and the way tales grow in the telling. In the bandit encounter in book two, Kvothe really does just blow them all up with a lightning bolt. Now yes, it takes a lot out of him and yes, he actually does it using “sympathy” not what Kvothe thinks of as “real” magic but since to a real-world reader as well as to pretty much everybody in the actual setting, sympathy is real magic anyway, the distinction is somewhat lost.
On the way back from his victory over the bandits, Kvothe encounters Felurian.
Felurian
Oh Felurian. Where to begin.
Felurian is that staple of fantasy novels, the deadly naked sex monster. She's the most beautiful, most alluring, most sexually attractive woman you'll ever see, and she will totally kill you with sex.
Felurian is the sirens, and Artemis and pretty much every other sex-death-nudity chick from mythology or fiction rolled into one. Kvothe catches her, bones her, breaks free of her sex-death-nudity mind control, completely whips her ass in a straight fight, then bones her again, then plays music that makes her think he's awesome, then writes half a song about her that is so awesome that she agrees to let him go so that he can finish it, then disses her sexual prowess, which prompts her to get really insecure and tell him what an amazing lover he is, then they have sex some more, then she sews him a magic cloak, while he goes away and talks to a prophetic tree which turns out to be evil.
Then they have sex some more, then he comes back to the real world and is all “bros, I totally did it with Felurian” and everybody is all like “no way, you'd be mad or dead” and he's like “no I totally did it with Felurian” and then the hot barmaid from earlier is all like “no he's definitely telling the truth because I am a woman and I can see that he has got totally sexed up since we last met, because I tried to sex him and it freaked him out, but now it looks like he wouldn't be freaked out and also he would be totally awesome at sexing.” Then Kvothe does sex with the hot barmaid and he is totally awesome at it, and he explains how doing sex with the hot barmaid is totally as good as doing sex with Felurian, because women are like music and sometimes you want to listen to a beautiful symphony and sometimes you just want a nice simple jig, and by the way this definitely isn't sexist, and if you think it is then you know nothing about music or love or him.
This last line, apart from being switched from the first to the third person, is a direct quote from the book.
So yeah, Felurian.
I should repeat that apart from a few misgivings, the Vintas segments of The Wise Man's Fear did actually convince me that I'd misjudged the book, that pacing issues aside it was going to turn out okay. The Felurian section convinced me that what I was dealing with was the worst kind of third-rate wish-fulfilment crap.
Here is the exchange between Kvothe and Felurian after he finishes his half-finished song (a song, I should add, which is included in full in the text, and which both Kvothe and Felurian describe as having beautiful words – a claim I would hesitate to make about anything I had written myself, particularly if it was incidental music for my fantasy novel):
Some of the fire left her, but when she found her voice it was tight and dangerous. “my skills 'suffice'?” She hardly seemed able to force out the last word. Her mouth formed a thin, outraged line. I exploded, my voice a roll of thunder. “How the hell am I supposed to know? It's not like I've ever done this sort of thing before!” She reeled back at the vehemence of my words, some of the anger draining out of her. “what is it you mean?” she trailed off, confused. “This!” I gestured awkwardly at myself, at her, at the cushions and the pavilion around us, as if that explained everything. The last of the anger left her as I saw realization begin to dawn, “you...” “No,” I looked down, my face growing hot. “I have never been with a woman.” Then I straightened and looked her in the eye as if challenging her to make an issue of it.” Felurian was still for a moment, then let her mouth turn up into a wry smile. “you tell me a faerie story, my kvothe.” I felt my face go grim. I don't mind being called a liar. I am. I am a marvellous liar. But I hate being called a liar when I'm telling the perfect truth. Regardless of my motivation, my expression seemed to convince her. “but you were like a gentle summer storm.” She made a fluttering gesture with a hand. “you were a dancer fresh upon the field.” Her eyes glittered wickedly.
That's right, Kvothe was so amazing at doing sex that the ancient sex goddess of sex and death was actually unable to believe that he was a virgin because he was so amazing at doing sex.
Once again, I say this. The next time you hear anybody complain about the fact that – in certain popular novels targeted at young women – hundred year old vampires fall for sixteen year old schoolgirls, point out to them that in one of the most critically acclaimed fantasy novels of the twenty-first century a faery creature of unbridled sexual potency, as ancient as time itself, who lures men to their deaths with her irresistible beauty and insatiable lovemaking has her mind blown by the sexual prowess of a sixteen year old virgin.
There is a part of me, a tiny part, which respects the sheer brass bollocks of this. Not only does Kvothe get to live out the adolescent fantasy of being taught how to be amazing at sex by a fantastically hot older woman (and I understand and appreciate this fantasy, and don't think there's anything wrong with it – adolescent fantasies are important, even for grownups, hell that's why I play RPGs and read genre fiction) but said hot older woman takes the time out at the start of the whole sequence to make it very clear both to him and to the reader that he was already amazing at sex and that all her tuition will be doing is making him even more amazing at sex.
Also what is up with her not using capitalization. What does that even sound like?
As part of the Felurian interlude Kvothe encounters a prophetic tree, which Bast interrupts the story to tell us is the most dangerous thing ever because it has absolute knowledge of the future and is utterly malicious, and therefore if you encounter it your every action will bring nothing but destruction (this is clearly a nonsensical idea, and is dropped into the middle of the text without ceremony or foreshadowing and I have no idea if we're even supposed to take it seriously). The whole faery interlude just came so totally out of left field and turned the story on its head in ways that felt annoying and unsatisfying. It introduced a whole bunch of concepts that didn't really have any buildup, and it transformed Kvothe's story from a story about a clever, resourceful man whose reputation grew far beyond the reality to the story of a man who really was just all that and a bag of chips. Suddenly he went from being somebody who did great things, and to whom legendary powers were attributed, to somebody who really did just have access to ancient powerful magic for no clear reason.
To put it another way, at the start of this review, I quoted the “I have stolen princesses back from sleeping barrow kings...” section from the first book. In The Name of the Wind we see that when Kvothe “burned down the town of Trebon” what really happened was that the town was burned down by a rampaging Draccus (a creature which itself was the mundane source of a fantastical rumour) while Kvothe was in the area for other reasons. This engaged cleverly with the novel's central themes.
In The Wise Man's Fear we deal with the “I have spent the night with Felurian” section of the speech. Unlike the town of Trebon, where the truth behind the story is both more mundane and more interesting than the version that is repeated in legend, the story of Kvothe's night with Felurian is just – well – exactly what it says on the tin. There's no clever twist or double meaning, no unexpected subversion of our expectations. He just really did do something which he totally shouldn't have been able to do, and looked awesome while doing it, and got to have loads of sex with a really really hot woman who by the way thought he was awesome at sex. It's not clever, it's not illuminating, it's just pathetic.
Ademre
I really do think that the Felurian sequence broke the book for me. Part of this is that my perception of Kvothe and the text in general shifted so fundamentally after the utterly facepalm-worthy faery sequence. Part of it is that once he's been initiated into the mysteries of womanhood by Felurian, Kvothe suddenly starts to have a whole lot of sex.
Once Kvothe has been taught to be awesome at sex by Felurian (but just so it's clear, he was already awesome at sex, this is very important) he then gets taught to be awesome at fighting. Thus becoming the best man ever.
In the world of the Kingkiller Chronicles there exists a kingdom (or an area of land at least) called Ademre. Ademre is one of those spurious fantasy cultures that seems to have a totally martial-arts based economy. They follow a philosophical thingy called “the Lethani” and study awesome martial arts that, of course, make them better at fighting than everybody else in the world. They then go into the world as mercenaries where they make a fortune being awesome at fighting, most of which they send back to their homeland, where it goes to support their otherwise extremely poor countrymen.
Kvothe travels with an Adem mercenary as part of his work for the Maer of Vint and, because everybody who meets Kvothe either takes an instant irrational dislike to him or treats him like he's the most important person in the universe, this mercenary initiates Kvothe into the secrets of the Lethani, and begins to instruct him in Adem martial techniques. It is worth pointing out at this point that doing either of these things is about the most horrific cultural taboo his society has, and is punishable by death or excommunication from the Adem (which the Adem, being the Noble Warrior Culture naturally consider to be a fate far worse than death).
The Adem discover that Kvothe has been taught their secrets, and he and his mercenary friend are summoned to Ademre to face judgement. They talk to Kvothe and he impresses them with how completely awesome he is and how he totally groks the Lethani even though he was only introduced to the concept about three weeks ago.
So because it's totally forbidden to share the secrets of the Lethani with people outside the Adem, but because Kvothe is apparently totally “of the Lethani” because he totally understands what this complicated philosophical concept is all about because of how awesome he is the only option that the Adem have open to them is to teach Kvothe to be totally awesome at fighting.
Of course.
The Adem, as it turns out, have a matriarchal society, for which Rothfuss scores precisely one point (he did not, at least, assume that it was impossible for women to have a prominent role in a warrior culture). He promptly loses that point for explaining that the reason the Adem have a matriarchal society is that their martial art is all about control and women are so much calmer and more sensible than men, because men are just so aggressive.
It also turns out that the Adem have no cultural taboos about nudity or sex. This of course leads to an intricate and profoundly well realised exploration of the ways in which our cultural notions of … oh who am I kidding. This is an excuse for Kvothe to have sex with a bunch of hot women who want to have sex with him because he is so awesome. Also there are no STDs in their culture because they all have sex with each other all the time, and obviously if your culture is based on rampant unprotected sex, it must be impossible for anybody in your culture to get an STD, because then STDs would spread around your population really fast, and obviously that couldn't happen, so they must all just be totally disease free. QED. Just to be clear, I'm not extrapolating here, this is exactly how it is explained as working in the book. At no point does Kvothe ever receive a sexual proposition from anybody he does not find attractive, and there is no engagement at all with the question of homosexuality.
So Kvothe gets taught to be awesome at fighting. To be fair, he does very clearly wind up being much less good at fighting than any of the actual Adem, there's a comedy sequence in which he gets his ass handed to him by a ten year old girl (although I kind of felt that this undermined the earlier point about how women in Ademre are better fighters than men – because we're clearly supposed to find the fact that Kvothe is beaten up by a girl funny and faintly emasculating, which makes the Adem's supposed respect for women warriors ring rather hollow). At the same time it's very clear that his two months of training in Ademre are going to make him better at fighting than anybody he is ever actually likely to get into a fight with, except for supernatural beings.
I think what bugged me most about the Ademre section was that it felt like this entire culture existed purely to provide an excuse for Kvothe to get good at fighting. These people who are utterly mistrustful of outsiders, incredibly paranoid about their secrets, and grounded in a social and philosophical ideals that Kvothe clearly finds completely alien never the less happily teach him their greatest secrets and formally initiate him into their society, and they do all of this despite the fact that he never shows even the slightest sign of having internalized (or even of remotely respecting) the ideals of the Adem. He never, for example, seems to get over his habit of assuming that women are inherently less capable fighters than men (he feels particularly embarrassed at being beaten up by a young girl and later on he massacres a group of bandits and feels particularly guilty about the fact that they had two women with them).
To put it another way, the overwhelming impression I got from The Name of the Wind was that while over the course of the novel, Kvothe acquired a great many skills, he didn't actually learn anything. He acquires awesome sex skills from Felurian, but doesn't learn anything about interacting with women except how to get what he wants out of them. He acquires awesome martial-arts skills from the Adem, but doesn't learn to really appreciate or understand their culture (except insofar as he comes to appreciate the benefits of being surrounded by hot women who treat sex as little more than a handshake). He doesn't really grow or change or develop in any meaningful way, he just gets more powerful – he's like the protagonist in a CRPG: he wanders around doing arbitrary-seeming quests and unlocking more powers. In every meaningful sense, the Kvothe who returns from Ademre at the end of The Wise Man's Fear is exactly the same as the Kvothe who was homeless on the streets of Tarbean in The Name of the Wind.
Denna
Something I've avoided talking about thus far is Denna. Denna is Kvothe's love interest.
I'm really not sure what to say about Denna. Kvothe meets her early in the first book, and then she's in and out of his life like the wind (oh do you see). Kvothe's love for Denna is pretty much his biggest drive in the book – even more so than his pursuit of the Chandrian, which is frankly lacklustre at times. Basically it's your traditional Nice Guy Protagonist in love with Mysterious High Class Prostitute story – it's sort of like Moulin Rouge or Mal/Inara in Firefly. They have lots of conversations in which she tells him how much she values him and how brilliant it is that he isn't like other guys who just want to control her and tie her down, and Kvothe spends a lot of time narrating to himself how brilliant it is that he isn't like other guys who just want to control Denna and tie her down. Meanwhile he spends the majority of his free time fantasising about how great it could be if he could control her and tie her down.
Okay, that's slightly unfair, but only slightly. In this type of narrative in general, the mistake writers wind up making is always in presenting the problem as strategic in nature. Try to tie the girl down, and she'll run away, so it's more practical to take a softly-softly approach so that you can get what you want. The notion that what the girl herself wants might enter into the equation is always rather a side issue. It is taken for granted that Kvothe will only be able to truly “be with” Denna if he can get her to stop running and stay with him – he never even considers the possibility that they could have a relationship in which she simply retains the independence she seems to value so highly.
I don't think the Denna thing would bother me if it weren't for the fact that Rothfuss' women are so uniformly … fneh. Pre-Felurian, they're basically all desexualised and childlike (like Auri, the quirky pixie girl who lives in the Underthing) or else Mysterious Gatekeepers Of The Mystic Lands of The Sex (like Fela, Devi, and all of the other hot women who fancy Kvothe without him realizing). Post-Felurian, the Mystery has gone out of the non-childlike women, but the Gatekeepers of the Lands of The Sex they remain.
I don't want to make too big a thing out of this (particularly since if I did this would apparently be evidence that I knew nothing about music, or love, or Patrick Rothfuss) The Kingkiller Chronicles is just generally not great for women. It has a fair few female characters in it who are interesting, but their interestingness is somewhat undermined by their total obsession with (which always includes sexual interest in) Kvothe.
In Conclusion: Follow Through
The Kingkiller Chronicles is a serious Fantasy series for serious Fantasy readers. I know it is, because it keeps telling me it is.
Each volume opens and closes with a section called A Silence of Three Parts, this chapter is always slightly different, but it always ends with the following line:
It was the patient, cut-flower sound of a man who is waiting to die.
It's this line that sets my expectations for the series. It will be serious, it will be melancholy, it will chart the tragedy of a man who did great and terrible things.
But it has no follow through.
So he gets expelled from the university, but it in no way stops him accessing the university. He's poor, but never so poor that he can't afford everything he could possibly need. He's of low birth, but nobody who isn't clearly evil reacts badly to him because of it. He wanders blithely into faerie and is none the worse for wear. He encounters a society in which everybody has casual, unprotected sex with everybody else, and this apparently creates a society completely free of sexually transmitted diseases. He rescues two girls from a gang of rapists, and briefly muses that they will now be unable to find husbands, but when he returns them to their home village virtually everybody expresses a twenty-first century, non-victim-blaming attitude.
The Wise Man's Fear is nine hundred and ninety four pages of setup, foreshadowing and copout. Kvothe wanders a world which exists only as a backdrop for him, and interacts with people who exist only to flatter him (either with their irrational hatred or their equally irrational adoration). It is a shallow, superficial text pandering to shallow, superficial fantasies. If it was three hundred pages shorter, and less portentously written, I'd recommend it unreservedly as a way to indulge your inner fourteen-year-old.
I have no doubt that The Wise Man's Fear will take its place alongside The Name of the Wind in the canon of modern Fantasy. I'll just sit here with my palm over my face.
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Wardog
at 19:27 on 2011-04-13I, wow, fail.
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Melissa G.
at 20:25 on 2011-04-13*facepalm*
No, really, that's kind of all I've got. I'm just sort of sitting here going, "I-what-but-it..." *throws up hands and walks away*
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Orion
at 20:48 on 2011-04-13My first reaction was to smugly proclaim that I've already written the story Name of the Wind evidently pretended to be--which is true. I was 14, so it was terrible for other reasons, but I like to think I stuck to the "myth is less than reality" thing pretty effectively.
My second was to realize, to my shame, that I also wrote most of the story Wise Man's Fear apparently is. This has me wondering: is the "wish-fulfillment" angle separable from the "sexism" one? If you've committed yourself to a hypertalented male protagonist whose powerset explicitly includes charisma, do you just stop pretending to care about authentic depictions of women, or what?
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http://winterfox.livejournal.com/
at 20:52 on 2011-04-13Why does the cover appear to feature a Jedi?
I'm sorry but you do not get to bore my tits off with trivialities for three hundred and sixty pages (for those of you keeping score at home that's twenty pages more than the entirety of The God of Small Things)
Oh my god
The God of Small Things.
A viable die-able age. HOW EVERYONE SHOULD BE LOVED AND HOW MUCH. Fffffffuuuu that book.
See, I never read the first Kingkiller book because it sounded precisely like the stuff I'd hate, but people keep raving on and on about it and I don't get it. Even the backcover bit sounds incredibly obnoxious: "oho look how clever I am by LAMPSHADING my GARY STU qualities. SEE? SEEEEE."
Jesus that post-coital exchange. No one can convince me to read Rothfuss. Ever. Ever. This, this right here? This is shit writing. This is stupid writing. Anyone who praises Rothfuss as whatever can go take a leap.
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Dan H
at 22:20 on 2011-04-13
Oh my god The God of Small Things. A viable die-able age. HOW EVERYONE SHOULD BE LOVED AND HOW MUCH. Fffffffuuuu that book.
Is that a "I hated God of Small Things" or an "I really liked God of Small Things"? I kind of can't tell.
See, I never read the first Kingkiller book because it sounded precisely like the stuff I'd hate, but people keep raving on and on about it and I don't get it. Even the backcover bit sounds incredibly obnoxious: "oho look how clever I am by LAMPSHADING my GARY STU qualities. SEE? SEEEEE."
It's very clever-clever, I thought that the first book just about got away with it, but the second just spiralled into a pit of stupid.
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Dan H
at 23:47 on 2011-04-13
This has me wondering: is the "wish-fulfillment" angle separable from the "sexism" one? If you've committed yourself to a hypertalented male protagonist whose powerset explicitly includes charisma, do you just stop pretending to care about authentic depictions of women, or what?
The glib answer to "is wish fulfillment separable from sexism" is "only if you have sexist wishes."
To be more specific and hopefully more helpful, I think it depends on how your handle your character's charisma. Just because somebody is charismatic, that doesn't mean that women have to throw themselves at him (any more than it means men have to throw themselves at him - assuming your character isn't so supernaturally gorgeous that they overcome people's sexuality, it seems reasonable that they wouldn't overcome people's general preferences either). Writing charismatic characters in *general* is really hard, because they can easily come across as somebody people like for no particular reason (like John Sheridan or for that matter Kvothe).
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http://koboldwhisperer.livejournal.com/
at 02:32 on 2011-04-14Uhg, this sounds horrible. And surprise, surprise, the guys at Penny-Arcade
loved it.
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http://winterfox.livejournal.com/
at 07:10 on 2011-04-14I hated
The God of Small Things
like burning, random incest and all.
koboldwhisperer: hurrgh Gabe and Tycho. What a pair of toxic wads.
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Arthur B
at 10:02 on 2011-04-14
Now yes, it takes a lot out of him and yes, he actually does it using “sympathy” not what Kvothe thinks of as “real” magic but since to a real-world reader as well as to pretty much everybody in the actual setting, sympathy is real magic anyway, the distinction is somewhat lost.
Wait, is Rothfuss seriously suggesting that there's nothing magical about
sympathetic magic
? Or is sympathy something different from that?
Either way: wow, this sounds shit. At least Moorcock (on his better days) had the decency to give his wish-fulfilment figures a hard time. Yes, Elric is teh sex and is good at fighting and magic and is really smart, but early on in his career he's really kind of a terrible person, later on he wants to change but is already too dependent on Stormbringer to rid himself of it, and eventually he's completely unable to protect anyone or anything he loves when it really counts. Is there any sign or hint that Kvothe is ever going to
fail
at something in a manner which he can't recover from within a hundred pages or so?
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Dan H
at 10:24 on 2011-04-14
Wait, is Rothfuss seriously suggesting that there's nothing magical about sympathetic magic? Or is sympathy something different from that?
There's a little bit more to it than that - Rothfuss' "sympathy" is quasi-scientific in a way that's actually quite interesting (it obeys conservation of energy, involves calculus and is treated by the people who study it as a form of engineering which it sort of is). "Real" magic is Naming, which is the proper "do anything and blow anything up" type of magic.
Uhg, this sounds horrible. And surprise, surprise, the guys at Penny-Arcade loved it.
To be fair, the actual cartoon looks more like it's mocking the book than praising it. I mean the title is "when Larry met Mary" which I sort of assume is implying that Kvothe comes out as a Mary Sue version of Leisure Suit Larry.
They might have *also* really liked it, but the cartoon is actually pretty spot on.
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Wardog
at 10:28 on 2011-04-14If you have sex with two ninjas have you come before you even knew they were there...*boom-tish*
Generally very much NOT a fan of PA but I did like the cartoon - even if they liked the book, at least they were vaguely aware of its absurdity.
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Dan H
at 10:37 on 2011-04-14Actually what I find really weird about the reaction on Penny Arcade is that Gabe at least seems to have been unremittingly positive about the book despite not actually liking anything about it.
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Arthur B
at 10:41 on 2011-04-14
>Actually what I find really weird about the reaction on Penny Arcade is that Gabe at least seems to have been unremittingly positive about the book despite not actually liking anything about it.
Sort of justifies the title of this article, doesn't it?
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Dan H
at 11:00 on 2011-04-14
Sort of justifies the title of this article, doesn't it?
One might almost have suspected it of being deliberate...
I'm rather pleased that Thomas Wagner over at SFReviews.net
shares many of my misgivings
- he also opens with a particularly cringeworthy list of quotes from other reviewers which would have been hilarious if it wasn't so indicative.
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Ash
at 11:09 on 2011-04-14I'm really, really glad I decided to not read these books after I learned they involved 'demons' called
skraelings
.
Seriously, how hard can it be to put your made-up and not-so-made-up names in a search engine and see what turns out?
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Dan H
at 16:09 on 2011-04-14
I'm really, really glad I decided to not read these books after I learned they involved 'demons' called skraelings.
Ooh dear, that isn't good at all.
Worse, I doubt that it was wholly accidental, Rothfuss is clearly interested in etymology, so it makes me think he *probably* did it at least semi-deliberately.
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Ash
at 18:45 on 2011-04-14How the hell do you do something like that accidentally on purpose? WHY the hell do you do something like that?
It just baffles me that no one called him out on his shit.
He's not getting a penny from me until he apologises. And maybe not eveen then.
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Dan H
at 18:48 on 2011-04-14I suspect the way you do it accidentally on purpose is you find out that there's a term that appears in Icelandic sagas which means roughly "thin, scrawny things" and is used in lines like: "After the first winter summer came, and they became aware of Skrælings, who came out of the forest in a large flock" (thanks Wiki) and you think "hey, that's a cool name for my thin, scrawny alien creatures that are going to come out of the forest in a large flock in the first book". You just forget that it's also basically a racial slur.
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Ash
at 19:58 on 2011-04-14I don't think the term itself is a racial slur (although I admit I only knew of the 'written skin' etymology), it's just its use in this context that's particularly wtf.
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Arthur B
at 21:36 on 2011-04-14To be fair, he could be setting up some sort of reveal that the Skraelings are totally human after all.
Though it doesn't sound like it's worth reading through thousands of pages of that stuff to find out whether that's the case.
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http://winterfox.livejournal.com/
at 22:22 on 2011-04-14
To be fair, he could be setting up some sort of reveal that the Skraelings are totally human after all.
Lord, even if there weren't--I'm guessing each book averages at over 900 pages each--nearly 3,000 pages between you and that reveal, I'd still be hard-pressed to imagine anything more asinine. It's not even a major part of the plot after all, is it?
Ash: heh, pennies. I've torrented books by terrible writers before for lulz, but when I actually loaded up the files to read, I discovered I had no interest in going past page two. There is such a thing as authors so off-putting that they aren't even worth reading for free. Also considering Rothfuss is currently a genre darling, the chances of anyone calling him out on either this thing or his female characters is slim to none. But hell, the latter happened to Joe Abercrombie, so maybe there's hope (and he even wrote slightly better female characters after the fact, though that's not saying much).
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Dan H
at 22:59 on 2011-04-14
To be fair, he could be setting up some sort of reveal that the Skraelings are totally human after all.
Since the Skraelings are eight-legged and crablike, that would be quite the twist, particularly since they're a throwaway in book one.
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http://kellicat.livejournal.com/
at 01:05 on 2011-04-15I've always wondered about all the praise people heap on this series because to me it sounds just like another example of male wish-fulfillment in epic fantasy and epic fantasy suffers from no lack of it.
What gets me is when people rush to squeal and drool over male epic fantasy authors like Rothfuss for their originality and bravery and marginalize the women who write epic fantasy and dark medieval fantasy by refusing to discuss their books or dismissing them as "women's stories" which is so ignorant it makes me want to scream.
Carol Berg has three complete epic fantasy series to her name, but how many people have heard of her? K.J. Taylor has written a dark fantasy trilogy with a villain protagonist, a unique medieval setting, and successful deconstruction of the special animal companion/chosen human relationship so prevalent in fantasy (It benefits the griffins as much is does the humans, politics and class play an important role in who a griffin chooses as their human companion, they don't adore human beings unconditionally, etc.), but how many people even know that it exists? What about Michelle West and her Sun Sword series? I only found out about it by reading a blog post by the author herself linked by Carol Berg to her own blog.
All the series above have their flaws, but while most critics either play up the flaws and ignore the things that the author does right (Michelle West) or ignore them altogether (K.J. Taylor, Carol Berg for a long time), they rush to gloss over the flaws of male authors like Rothfuss and Martin and I'm just sick of it.
Of course you can't ever really say, for certain, how a book would have been received if you reversed the genders of its author and protagonist, but something tells me that a book about a red-haired girl who plays the lute and becomes the most powerful sorceress who ever lived by the time she's seventeen, and who has a series of exciting sexy encounters with supernatural creatures, would not have been quite so readily inducted into the canon of a genre still very uncertain about its mainstream reputation.
Sarah Micklem's books
Firethorn
and
Widlfire
are books about a red-headed peasant girl who manages to have a knight fall in love with her, has fire magic gifted to her by the gods and has an extensive knowledge of herbs and healing. It's also a dark medieval fantasy that isn't afraid to hurt its protagonist and make her and everyone around her suffer. it's well-regarded critically, but it's not nearly praised as Martin or Rothfuss's fantasy series. Just a warning, there is a rape early on the first book, but I thought that the author handled it well. It's one the few fantasy series that manages to tackle medieval misogyny without making me want to throw a cluebat at the author. YMMV though.
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http://cofax7.livejournal.com/
at 05:54 on 2011-04-15
What gets me is when people rush to squeal and drool over male epic fantasy authors like Rothfuss for their originality and bravery and marginalize the women who write epic fantasy and dark medieval fantasy by refusing to discuss their books or dismissing them as "women's stories" which is so ignorant it makes me want to scream.
Or like Sherwood Smith and Kate Elliott, both of whom are writing the kind of complex, meaty, plot-heavy stories with strong world-building that the fans and critics purport to love. Except neither of them get anywhere near the kind of press that people like Rothfuss and Martin do.
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http://winterfox.livejournal.com/
at 10:47 on 2011-04-15Since we're going there, what about NK Jemisin's
100K Kingdoms
? Yeine doesn't tick all the boxes: she only gets the "hot sex with creator god," "chosen for special destiny before she was born" and "chieftain of her tribe despite exhibiting no leadership skills whatsoever" down (can't recall her age but I think he's in her early twenties, tops? Nineteen maybe?), but by the end of her story she turns into an honest-to-goodness creator deity. Jemisin is taken pretty seriously by critics as well as sf/f fans, and was nominated for the Nebula. Popular opinion of her writing is overwhelmingly, absolutely positive; she's praised for amazing world-building and characterization and super-duper-clever framing narrative.
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Dan H
at 11:06 on 2011-04-15So we're rapidly coming to the conclusion that, in fact, the SF/F community will embrace silly Mary-Sue characters regardless of gender?
That's fairly positive, I suppose.
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http://winterfox.livejournal.com/
at 11:37 on 2011-04-15It's more progressive than "the SF/F community will embrace silly Sues when they're male but decry their female counterparts," I guess? Yeine's even black!
(Despite my low, low opinion of Jemisin's novels I didn't actually think Yeine was a Sue--my problems with those books lay elsewhere--but when you sit down and list all her characteristics...)
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Ash
at 12:57 on 2011-04-15I was under the impression that The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms was successful because it was a novel with a PoC protagonist written by a PoC author that came out just after RaceFail09.
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http://gareth-rees.livejournal.com/
at 13:45 on 2011-04-15An alternative theory. The fan fiction community skews female, and it's the fan writers and critics who put the spotlight on Mary Sue. So it should not surprise us that Meyer's audience were quicker to identify and comment on the wish-fulfilment aspects of her work than Rothfuss's audience.
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http://cammalot.livejournal.com/
at 16:09 on 2011-04-15
Yeine definitely is not black
, but she is a person of color, so the point still stands. (I'm linking to the article that underlines why I felt the need to point that out.)
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Dan H
at 17:10 on 2011-04-15
Yeine definitely is not black, but she is a person of color, so the point still stands. (I'm linking to the article that underlines why I felt the need to point that out.)
I really can't get my head around the idea of an African-American fiction section *at all*. I mean maybe I'm hopelessly naive but I'm pretty sure we don't have anything like that in this country (although to be fair and less laurel-resty that might be because of a tendency to leave black writers and characters out of bookstores entirely, rather than as a result of a more enlightened view of race politics).
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http://cammalot.livejournal.com/
at 17:18 on 2011-04-15Once upon a time it was useful. Now it's just an excellent way to make sure that black writers only get read by black readers -- less than 12 percent of the U.S popluation -- and therefore have a drastically reduced shelf like, reinforcing the idea that "black books don't sell." It is THE main reason I'm not weeping over the closure of Borders here -- they seem to be the last bastion of such a section, where I live.
Barnes and Noble have an "African-American Interest" section, but it's in with all the other sociology and anthroplogy sections, like Native American History and Judaica. Their fiction is categorized by, y'know,
category,
not race of author.
At one point, my local Borders was lumping Zane's erotica and "urban fiction," James Baldwin's novels AND essays, Octavia Butler, and Barack Obama's memoir together on the same shelf. (One shelf that was very close to the register to keep Us Folk from stealin'. Sigh.)
I went to a manager about it, and she gave me the most crestfallen look ever and told me that they had all tried, but it was a decision of the higher-ups.
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http://cammalot.livejournal.com/
at 17:37 on 2011-04-15(Oh, and yeah, I never saw that kind of thing in the U.K. either, not even in Borders. Granted, I haven't made an exhaustive study of the U.K. or anything.)
The funny thing about Borders here, too? Black British authors -- and Afro Caribbean, if I remember correctly -- were shelved right in with the "normal" fiction. (As were South Asian authors, Korean authors, South American, et cetera...) I definitely found Mike Gayle and the novel "Small Island" in with the mainstream fiction.
But I'm betting the U.K. publishing industry has undergone an entirely different sort of evolution. You'll still find, here, that some of the loudest advocates of having an Af Am section are African Americans, who want to have a shelf that "our children can look at, and feel proud, and know that they can accomplish things."
Which
was
in fact useful when I was a kid in the '70s. But now it hits the writers in the pocket and stands in the way of some of the social advances we need -- a greater variety of people writing a greater variety of experience (rather than depending on white writers to "get it right" all the time). We touched on that in the "Demon's Covenant" discussion.
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http://kellicat.livejournal.com/
at 20:56 on 2011-04-15I remembered N.K. Jemisin after I posted my comment, but unfortunately I can't remember any other women writing epic fantasy who's been embraced by fans and critics to the same extent so for now she stands as an exception to the general rule. Whether she represents a new trend or whether the fans will just go back to praising white men epic fantasy remains to be seen.
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Robinson L
at 15:06 on 2011-05-25
He rescues two girls from a gang of rapists, and briefly muses that they will now be unable to find husbands, but when he returns them to their home village virtually everybody expresses a twenty-first century, non-victim-blaming attitude.
The really depressing part is that even in the twenty-first century, such an attitude is still the exception rather than the rule.
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http://conquestsong.blogspot.com/
at 23:29 on 2011-07-01Excellent rant, you summed up everything I disliked about WMF and TNotW. I think Rothfuss has that gift where his writing is easy to read / easy to get sucked into -- thus, people rarely recognize or shrug away how shopworn and/or stupid the content actually is.
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Dan H
at 01:11 on 2011-07-02He's certainly very readable (he'd have to be given how *stupidly long* his work is) and I'd feel much, much more positive about his books if they weren't so critically acclaimed. Which I suppose boils down to a churlish sounding "I'd like this more if other people like it less" but - yeah, it's quite good for silly wish-fulfillment, but it's not the great work of lit-ter-at-ture that people are claiming it is.
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Steve Stirling at 07:47 on 2011-07-13Michelle West is definitely an awesome fantasy writer. Very cool person, too.
Yeah, Kvothe is a wish-fulfillment, but so what? So are Odysseus and Beowulf. The question is how well it's done.
BTW, the really creepy thing about TWILIGHT is not that the sixteen-year-old girl can totally charm the centuries-old vampire.
It's that a guy centuries old is still hanging around high school. Christ, I shook the dust of secondary education from my feet just as fast as I could.
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Arthur B
at 11:42 on 2011-07-13
Yeah, Kvothe is a wish-fulfillment, but so what? So are Odysseus and Beowulf. The question is how well it's done.
I think Dan has made a very coherent case here that it's not done very well at all. :)
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Dan H
at 15:00 on 2011-07-13
Yeah, Kvothe is a wish-fulfillment, but so what? So are Odysseus and Beowulf.
That's a fine soundbite, but I strongly suspect that it's also meaningless nonsense.
How, precisely, are Odysseus and Beowulf wish-fulfillment? Unless you're defining "wish-fulfillment" as "any narrative in which the protagonist possesses admirable qualities". For that matter I'm not even sure if the Ancient Greek or Anglo-Saxon mindset could even *accommodate* the concept of "wish fulfillment" as you or I understand it.
Whose wishes is Beowulf supposed to be fulfilling? Those of the Anglo-Saxons who originally told the story? Those of the monks who transcribed it and put in all the spurious Jesus references? Those of Ray Winstone?
I'd also point out that you're not really presenting an argument here. My complaint about the book is that it is NOTHING BUT juvenile wish-fulfillment. Even if we accept for the moment your assertion that Beowulf and the Odyssey contain ELEMENTS of wish-fulfilment that doesn't address the problem. If you make me a sandwich with no filling, and I complain that it contains nothing but bread, saying "all sandwiches contain bread" doesn't really address my complaint.
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Orion
at 18:21 on 2011-07-13Yeah, I can't get behind Odysseus as a wish fulfillment character either. He gets very little of what he wants over the course of his life, he solves only a handful of crises with his own talents, and frequently has to give up appealing things in the name of duty.
Okay, he does get to sex up a few supernatural women, but even those sex scenes are framed as disturbing and unpleasant experiences.
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Steve Stirling at 19:00 on 2011-07-13
I think Dan has made a very coherent case here that it's not done very well at all. :)
-- sure. Actually I agree with that; my point was that a Mary Sue isn't a bad thing -as such-.
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Steve Stirling at 19:04 on 2011-07-13
How, precisely, are Odysseus and Beowulf wish-fulfillment?
-- "Me, but much better". Odysseus is the "man of cunning mind", the omnicompetent all-rounder who can do everything pretty well, even if not as well as the specialists.
Of course, Achilles is wish-fulfillment too (Alexander the Great consciously modeled his life on him) but in a rather different sense. You might say that between them they encompassed different aspects of the Greek ideal man.
Beowulf is what a noble Anglo-Saxon of the warrior class wanted to be -- lucky, strong enough to rip a troll's arm off, fearless, honored by all men, faithful to his oaths...
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Cammalot
at 19:32 on 2011-07-13Isn't the Mary Sue phenomenon a function of bad writing by definition? Competence or even superness isn't Sueness by default. The plot warping its way around the character in defiance of logic, believeability, and reasonable genre conventions makes a Sue. If it's well done, it's not a Sue situation anymore.
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Wardog
at 19:58 on 2011-07-13
"Me, but much better". Odysseus is the "man of cunning mind", the omnicompetent all-rounder who can do everything pretty well, even if not as well as the specialists.
You seem to be looking at fictional constructs, who perform symbolic and cultural functions as well as literal ones, as RPG characters. I'm not sure you can look at characters from other times through a modern day lens - although you might argue that there's century-spanning human trait, which involves looking at imaginary people and wishing we were like them, ultimately it's neither a helpful nor a useful way to interpret ancient texts. They're not actually the superhero comics of their day.
Beowulf is what a noble Anglo-Saxon of the warrior class wanted to be -- lucky, strong enough to rip a troll's arm off, fearless, honored by all men, faithful to his oaths...
The who? The what? For what it's worth, Beowulf - in the form we have it - was archaic even its day. If it was about a warrior culture, which I think, on balance it probabably wasn't, it was about a warrior culture already long gone. And although I'm personally amused by the idea of a bunch of thanes sitting around the camp fire going "Hey, shaper, tell us the one about the guy who failed to kill a dragon like all the other mythic heroes, and who left no legacy whatsoever because in the face of time all men are futile and weak because we totally want to be that guy" I can't readily imagine it.
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Orion
at 20:20 on 2011-07-13I've always thought that the important part of a wish fulfillment character wasn't that they had astounding personal qualities, but rather that they were able to use those qualities to, well, fulfill wishes. In fact I'd go so far as to say that having the positive qualities is only a means to the end, because there are wish fulfillment characters with no discernible positive qualities who get to live the dream through luck or contrivance (Bella Swan).
So show me an omnicompetent person, and I'm not going to call them a wish-fulfillment character unless they also gets to live a good life. Now, I recognize that what counts as a good life is a little complicated. Plenty of wish-fulfillment heroes spend most of their time in dire circumstances having supposedly horrible things happen to them, but because it's fantasy violence and fantasy suffering we don't care overmuch. What matters is whether the scenes where they get to live the dream are there and how those scenes are presented.
So looking at whether the Odyssey would work as a wish-fulfillment story for a modern audience (setting aside the question of how the Greeks would have read it), the evidence breaks down something like this:
Pro: Rules a kingdom, wins a war, has a beautiful and devoted wife, has the favor of the gods.
Con: Separated from his home for 20 years, rather more cursed than blessed on the whole, doomed to leave home AGAIN after returning and die in a foreign land.
Pro: Sexes up goddesses, outwits monsters, wins archery contest through special gifts.
Con: Doesn't seem to be attracted to most of the women he meets, has to give up the one potentially appealing one (Nausicaa), and genereally feels harried and put upon more than triumphant and cocky.
Ultimately it's a judgment call, but I'm swayed more by the con points.
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Steve Stirling at 20:40 on 2011-07-13
The plot warping its way around the character in defiance of logic, believeability, and reasonable genre conventions makes a Sue. If it's well done, it's not a Sue situation anymore.
-- I see your point, but disagree.
What's logical or "believable" in the career of any of the epic heroes?
You're valorizing the conventions of Modernist fiction; but those are just conventions.
They're not even particularly "realistic" in any real sense; just pinched, narrow and self-obsessed in a sort of pickle-up-the-ass way.
Take a look at the careers of Genghis Khan or Tamerlane or Cortez or Pizzaro. Leaving aside the supernatural element, they're every bit as fantastic and full of outrageous coincidences and victories against incredible odds and acts of insane daring and so forth as most fantasy fiction.
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Cammalot
at 20:45 on 2011-07-13
What's logical or "believable" in the career of any of the epic heroes?
But you're leaving out the part where I *very deliberately* said "reasonable genre conventions." I'm not privileging anything -- Beowulf and the Odyssey very much follow the conventions of their art form/folkloric patterns, etc.
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Steve Stirling at 20:50 on 2011-07-13Kyra:
although you might argue that there's century-spanning human trait, which involves looking at imaginary people and wishing we were like them,
-- when archaelogists dug the site of Mari, a city destroyed by Hammurabi of Babylon in around 1800 BCE, they found an unopened (clay envelope around a clay tablet) letter.
Breaking the envelope, they read the words that no human eye had seen for over 3000 years.
It began: "This is the third letter I have written you about the silver you owe me for the sheep..."
Different cultures are different, but some things are eternal. Wishing you were luckier, smarter, stronger, braver and better-looking than you are is one of them.
For what it's worth, Beowulf - in the form we have it - was archaic even its day. If it was about a warrior culture, which I think, on balance it probabably wasn't, it was about a warrior culture already long gone.
-- certain -aspects- of it were archaic; it's obviously been de-paganized a bit.
(Incidentally it can be dated to the mid-sixth century by references to historical events that got written down.)
But the basic social system was that with which a 10th-century Anglo-Saxon audience would have been familiar; the lord, his sworn companions, the hall, the symbolic exchange of gifts, and so forth. The dragons and trolls were just cool exciting stuff to make it more exotic and exciting.
Yeah, it has a doom-laded ending. Well, ancient Germanic poetry, natch.
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Steve Stirling at 20:57 on 2011-07-13Life Imitates Art division: when Cortez' men came over the pass and saw the Aztec cities below them, with their pyramids and canals and palaces and hummingbird-feather cloaks, the first thing they said to each other was:
"This is just like "Amadis of Gaul"!"
"Amadis" was a late-medieval romance full of valliant knights, wicked sorcerors, heroic quests, and beautiful princesses. The sort of thing your average penniless would-be hidalgo whiled away the hours with.
These guys were living out a heroic-fantasy, sword-and-sorcery adventure in their own heads (complete with evil priests). LARPing fanboys with Toledo swords shedding real blood.
Art Imitates Life: The Kull/Conan story that Howard wrote about the assassination attempt with the mad poet and so forth is taken, almost word for word (right down to the hastily-donned armor not laced up at the side) from the death of Pizzaro.
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Steve Stirling at 21:08 on 2011-07-13
Ultimately it's a judgment call, but I'm swayed more by the con points.
-- well, there's where the target audience comes in.
I found the book this all started with a little boring; not because the hero was so super, but because he wasn't -tested- enough.
(Incidentally, this is the basic reason you have to be careful in what abilities you give your protagonist -- you have to have the appropriate kryptonite waiting. It's also a drawback when you finally make him/her the ruler or whatever; after that, life is mosty meetings and reports. Not that Aragorn exits stage right after Gandalf crowns him.)
In the case of Homer, the target audience would be people who'd fought with shield and spear to the death. (An ancient Greek proverb went: "Even Hercules can't fight two.")
To be believable enough for the wish-fulfillment element to be -satisfying-, he had to put the hero through the wringer.
Also, a lot of the wish-fulfillment element was the desire to BE a hero; and a hero had to do mighty deeds and overcome terrible trials. The Greeks were just as aware as us that "adventure" was "someone else in deep shit, far away".
Because the Man from Ithaka is a mythic hero, everything he does is heightened; he doesn't just fight Illyrian pirates, he fights a Cyclops, and so forth.
Reading through the book, I did get the very strong impression that the author had never had to actually fight, for example.
Again, I'm not saying this is a good book; I'm saying it's a badly written one in some respects but that the hero's abilities aren't necessarily one of them.
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Cammalot
at 21:11 on 2011-07-13Steve, I'm not following what you're actually criticizing about the original article at all anymore.
You seem to be saying that lots of literature across time and culture contained outsized exploits and larger-than-life heroes, and so the presence of these things... makes any book good? Because I do not see Dan arguing that the presence of these things automatically makes a book bad.
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Wardog
at 21:19 on 2011-07-13
Different cultures are different, but some things are eternal. Wishing you were luckier, smarter, stronger, braver and better-looking than you are is one of them.
You can argue this point if you like, it's neither provable nor disprovable, like most of the generic statements you have brought to this discussion. However, attempting to support it by a "one size fits all" application of historical texts strikes me as absurd.
(Incidentally it can be dated to the mid-sixth century by references to historical events that got written down.)
The story can, the manuscript is not, but ultimately we can't really make judgements about an oral tradition to which we don't have access because, um, it was oral.
Yeah, it has a doom-laded ending.
I would point out that the ending of a text has something on an impact of the general atmosphere. And actually it's doom-laden throughout. The ending is merely the culmination of all the futility that has gone before.
But the basic social system was that with which a 10th-century Anglo-Saxon audience would have been familiar; the lord, his sworn companions, the hall, the symbolic exchange of gifts, and so forth. The dragons and trolls were just cool exciting stuff to make it more exotic and exciting.
Well, yes, these are familiar tropes - but surely the way they are deployed in in the text supports my point, not yours? If you take all these elements - standard elements of heroic literature - and set about showing them to be hollow, I fail to see how this makes Beowulf the sort of dude any anglo-saxon would aspire to be? You'll be trying to tell me Brythnoth was a great king next.
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Orion
at 21:42 on 2011-07-13To be believable enough for the wish-fulfillment element to be -satisfying-, he had to put the hero through the wringer.
You seem to be conflating two types of story which, while often overlapping, ought to be conceptually separate.
Some stories get their punch from a structure that for lack of a better term I'll call redemption. (I don't mean that in a moral sense; I considered catharsis but that word has too much baggage.) In this kind of story, the protagonists main function is to suffer though a great deal of shit, which causes us to feel sympathetic towards them and be invested in finding out what happens to them. Only after the tension has been raised by setback after loss after betrayal are they allowed to win out, in an ending which the reader experiences as a euphoric relief/release.
Other stories are primarily about vicariously enjoying good things and experiences in the protagonist's life. They get to have and do the things the reader wants, and it's that pre-existing desire in the reader that makes the story compelling. This is what I would call a wish-fulfillment story.
Obviously it's possible to both in the same story. You can tell a story about someone suffering ignominously for 90% of the text and then getting a big house with a fast car and a hot spouse at the end. To some degree you can even mix techniques in the middle of a story, having your character take a quick break to shag a sex demon in between episodes of torture and failure. But I think to a certain degree they undermine each other because identifying with and sympathizing with a character are very different levels of distance.
Anyway, despite the frequent overlap, you can find examples of "pure" types if you look. Although I've never watched an entire James Bond film straight through, what I've seen leads to me think they are nearly pure wish-fulfillment stories. I've heard he gets captured and tortured occasionally, but whenever I've watched he's been confident and unfazed essentially the entire time, and he gets to enjoy fine drinks and casual sex throughout, not just at the end.
My example "pure redemption" story would be the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant. The main character is a bitter divorced leper who is thrown into a fantasy world where he spends most of his time being cursed or tortured, helplessly watching people die, or committing rape and then feeling bad about it. Watching him finally choose good, find his power, and defeat the big bad is satisfying because what went before was so horrible. But his reward for doing so is... going back to Earth to be a slightly less bitter but still ostracized leper. He never gets anything the typical reader wants.
I think the Odyssey is an almost pure redemption story with minor wish fulfillment elements.
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Wardog
at 22:06 on 2011-07-13
So looking at whether the Odyssey would work as a wish-fulfillment story for a modern audience (setting aside the question of how the Greeks would have read it), the evidence breaks down something like this:
I like this game! I was very amused - I come down on Team Con as well. I do not aspire to Odysseus despite his aparently decent starting stats. Let's do Jesus next!
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Cammalot
at 22:21 on 2011-07-13
Let's do Jesus next!
Depends on if you buy the deus ex machina ending. ;-)
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Steve Stirling at 22:23 on 2011-07-13Cammalot:
You seem to be saying that lots of literature across time and culture contained outsized exploits and larger-than-life heroes, and so the presence of these things... makes any book good? Because I do not see Dan arguing that the presence of these things automatically makes a book bad.
-- Well, I got the impression that Dan -was- saying that enough outsized exploits -did- make it automatically bad.
My slant wasn't complete disagreement; simply that the reason the book was bad was that the hero's trials and challenges weren't -in proportion- to his abilities.
Hence the wish fulfillment element failed on its own terms because (to my mind) it's the overcoming of serious obstacles which makes the hero's ultimate triumph (or heroic death) satisfying -as- wish fulfillment.
Basically, it seemed to me that Dan was criticizing the book for not being more like a Modernist (anti-heroic) text. Perhaps I was wrong about that?
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Steve Stirling at 22:27 on 2011-07-13
The story can, the manuscript is not, but ultimately we can't really make judgements about an oral tradition to which we don't have access because, um, it was oral.
-- Beowulf isn't the only example of ancient Germanic heroic poetry to which we have access.
The continuity over broad areas of time and space indicates that, "originally" (say in the Migration period, which is when Beowulf is "set" to the extent that it happens in the real world at all) we're looking at a single interacting culture sphere, with stories and storytellers moving from area to area.
Eg., the very late Icelandic poems contain persons and stories dating to the fourth, fifth and sixth centuries; Ermannaric the Ostrogoth, for example, or Theodoric. Or the Niebelungen legend and the breaking of the Burgund kingdom by the Huns, which originates in the Rhineland.
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Steve Stirling at 22:33 on 2011-07-13
I think the Odyssey is an almost pure redemption story with minor wish fulfillment elements.
-- I see your point, but I think you're missing the essence of the "heroic quest".
The hero doesn't just have bad shit happen to him, he has bad shit happen and deals with it -in a heroic way-.
Odysseus suffers shiprweck, etc., and meets each challenge with heroic courage, heroic cunning, etc.
That's what -makes- him a hero, and worthy of identification. That's why the audience would want to "be" him.
At the end, he gets a reward. But it isn't any the less a wish fulfillment/identification story if he dies a heroic death; because the wish is to BE a hero. And heroes die.
It is genuinely possible to ardently desire a heroic death; it just isn't as common in this culture, currently.
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Steve Stirling at 22:34 on 2011-07-13
My example "pure redemption" story would be the Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.
God, how I hated that book. DIE, ALREADY, YOU LOSER! was always my reaction to Covenant.
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Orion
at 22:45 on 2011-07-13I thought the article criticized the way Kvothe's abilities are presented and justified more than the fact that he has extraordinary abilities. Let's look at the two big example: fighting skills and faery interludes.
Kvothe and Achilles are both young men of mysterious origin with legendary fighting skills and powerful magic. But Achilles is the iconic hero of his culture. His fighting skills are something he would reasonably have the opportunity to learn, and his use of them (his behavior in general, in fact) is constrained by the customs and standards of his culture. Kvothe, on the other hand, somehow obtains skills which properly belong to another culture and thereafter wanders the world endowed with asskicking which his rivals have no access to and which does not come with any significant obligations.
Or look at the handling of the supernatural. The Homeric heroes may be extremely good at what they do, but when there's a god or curse or prophecy in play they have to abide by it. Achilles will die if he fights in this war, just as Kvothe will supposedly die is he sleeps with Felurian. One of them escapes their fate and the other doesn't. And when Odyseeus hooks up with Calypso, she uses him until he falls into a deep sleep and he only escapes due to divine intervention.
I don't know, maybe that's what you're getting at when you say Kvothe doesn't face big enough challenges? That Calypso is obviously "more powerful" than Felurian and Paris more skilled than anyone Kvothe fights? I guess that works, but I'd rather think of it not in terms of facing bigger challenges, but rather having to follow the rules while doing it.
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Wardog
at 22:47 on 2011-07-13
Beowulf isn't the only example of ancient Germanic heroic poetry to which we have access.
Yes, I know, but you specifically cited Beowulf as an example of historical wish-fulfillment fantasy. I have, I hope, explained why it isn't.
Eg., the very late Icelandic poems contain persons and stories dating to the fourth, fifth and sixth centuries; Ermannaric the Ostrogoth, for example, or Theodoric. Or the Niebelungen legend and the breaking of the Burgund kingdom by the Huns, which originates in the Rhineland
Indeed, these are examples of late Icelandic poems. Congratulations.
However, this is a *different* heroic tradition - and although it is referenced pretty explicitely in Beowulf, it is only to emphasise how Beowulf himself *differs* from these heroes.
And a list of texts is not an argument as to why any of them may be interpreted as historical wish fulfillment fantasy either.
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Dan H
at 23:00 on 2011-07-13
Basically, it seemed to me that Dan was criticizing the book for not being more like a Modernist (anti-heroic) text. Perhaps I was wrong about that?
Ah, I think this is the heart of our disagreement. To an extet I *was* criticising the book for not being a modernist, anti-heroic text, because I felt that the book was *setting itself up* to be a modernist, anti-heroic text and was being treated by the SF/F community as if it *was* a modernist, anti-heroic text. I felt that only by *being* a modernist, anti-heroic text could the book begin to deal with the themes it so promisingly raised in book one.
I have absolutely nothing against pure wish-fulfillment (although I prefer it to come in packages rather smaller than 997 pages) but I don't personally find it terribly interesting, or worthy of attention.
I'd also suggest that we might be using "wish fulfillment" slightly differently. A lot of what you call "wish fulfillment" is what I would simply call "myth" - it is true that a great deal of mythology presented figures who the audience was expected to admire or aspire to be like (as do, for example, morality plays) but that is not the same as wish fulfillment, which is a more modern concept to do with appealing to the personal fantasies of its target market. It's not about providing you with a satisfying narrative in which a sympathetic character with whom you identify overcomes aversity, it's about provding you with an avatar who you can imagine yourself being, and having that avatar go through the motions of doing things you wish you could do.
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Steve Stirling at 23:12 on 2011-07-13Orion:
I don't know, maybe that's what you're getting at when you say Kvothe doesn't face big enough challenges? That Calypso is obviously "more powerful" than Felurian and Paris more skilled than anyone Kvothe fights? I guess that works, but I'd rather think of it not in terms of facing bigger challenges, but rather having to follow the rules while doing it.
-- I think we're saying pretty much the same thing here, just using different terminology.
Kvorthe's abilities are so out of proportion to the background that they break the narrative frame of the story.
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Steve Stirling at 23:19 on 2011-07-13
However, this is a *different* heroic tradition - and although it is referenced pretty explicitely in Beowulf, it is only to emphasise how Beowulf himself *differs* from these heroes.
-- I'd say it's different flavors of the same tradition.
Obviously they're drawing on a common pool of tropes and styles and stories, with which the creator and the audience are assumed to be familiar. Beowulf is, after all, set in what's now Sweden and from the internal evidence was hundreds of years old when the manuscript was written down, whenever that was.
This necessarily implies that at the time Beowulf was circulating in Anglo-Saxon England, a lot of -other- stories deriving from the same corpus were too, versions of the Niebelungen story or the tale of Wayland, and quasi-historical stuff like "Burnt Finnsburg". Doubtless there were versions of Beowulf circulating in Scandinavia.
We have a (fairly) complete text of Beowulf essentially by accident; we don't have most of the others, also essentially by accident.
Beowulf is in a coversation with the other stories. It differs in some respects, and shares others, and obviously the audience enjoyed listening to it.
And the others as well.
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Steve Stirling at 23:23 on 2011-07-13
it is true that a great deal of mythology presented figures who the audience was expected to admire or aspire to be like (as do, for example, morality plays) but that is not the same as wish fulfillment, which is a more modern concept to do with appealing to the personal fantasies of its target market. It's not about providing you with a satisfying narrative in which a sympathetic character with whom you identify overcomes aversity, it's about provding you with an avatar who you can imagine yourself being, and having that avatar go through the motions of doing things you wish you could do.
-- I really don't see a fundamental (as opposed to flavor) difference here.
Eg., in what way is "Amadis of Gaul" fundamentally different from the books we're talking about?
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Orion
at 08:14 on 2011-07-14Jesus:
Pros: foot rubs, vintage wine, and cheap seafood. Speak before adoring audiences and travel with a dozen groupies.
Cons: celibacy, poor fashion sense, and agonizing death.
I think I have to vote "con" again.
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http://ruderetum.blogspot.com/
at 10:52 on 2011-07-14I think the discussion might be suffering from a confusion of terms used. Wish fulfillment as I understand it would refer to a more specific narrative ploy, which appeals directly to the reader's wish to insert themselves into the story through charecterization and titillation and whatnot. It might be a mistake to do, as Steve does to effortlessly widen wish fulfillment to mean any sense of recognition with a character in a story. Sure, if we allow this, Steve is right, because it seems clear that most(though perhaps not categorically all) stories depend on the audience's interest in the story and their recognizing the character as a person.
I don't think that such a wide use of the term is very useful or a strong argument though. If, for example we discuss the Odyssey, as somewhere above, it is surely a heroic epic where the hero is very resourceful and strong, but the very point of the story is its tragic tone in Aristotelian terms, that is a great person who is unable to escape their fate as gods or the worlds plaything. While the intended audience of Odysseia(or Ilium) are no doubt meant to be impressed by the hero and his prowess, it is very doubtful whether any one would wish to be like him. He tries to reac home after a ten year war which he was tricked into going to and because he manages to anger a godd takes ten years to reach it, while suffering horrible hardships and losing all his men and possessions besides, spending years on end as a plaything to one immortal or another. Meanwhile his son grows into a man and his wife is sieged in by suitors. Sure it has a happy ending, but the focus is not on how Odysseus is great, but rather on see how even the greatest of heroes is tossed around by the whims of powers beyond him.
And anyways as said, even if we allow that wish fulfillment is present in all stories, this just proves that it is a useless term to describe how some stories are more appealing than others. Because really if it is present in all stories, its presence is important like the words themselves, it has to be there, but it does not tell anything about the story.
I wouldn't treat the term with such a wide applicability though. Its use is more specific, as I said. In other news, the few extant germanic tales which differ from each other is hardly enough to claim such sweeping generalizations on what the audience though or expected from the stories.
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Wardog
at 10:57 on 2011-07-14
I'd say it's different flavors of the same tradition
But "tradition" in this context is so broad as to be meaningless. Do you mean texts written in Anglo Saxon? Texts from an oral tradition? You might as well say Pride and Prejudice and The Blade Itself are from the same tradition because they're written in English and printed on paper. And, yes, it's arguably true but I don't see the value in asserting it? You can find superficial similarities between any texts you like but this doesn’t make Beowulf any more historical wish-fulfilment fantasy than it was previously. Which is not at all.
Obviously they're drawing on a common pool of tropes and styles and stories, with which the creator and the audience are assumed to be familiar
See above.
Beowulf is in a coversation with the other stories. It differs in some respects, and shares others, and obviously the audience enjoyed listening to it.
See above.
Eg., in what way is "Amadis of Gaul" fundamentally different from the books we're talking about?
You seem pretty desperate to talk about Amandis of Gaul so here we go. The same argument applies here. I’ve already tried to explain why I think arbitrarily assigning 21st century perspectives to historical contexts is reductive and foolish. I mean, as Dan has stated, the very idea of wish-fulfilment, in the terms we understand it, is quite a modern idea. Not to get all philosophy of language about it but when you read historical texts – especially those written in other languages – we have accept a degree of distance between those texts and ideas of selfhood, self-expression and society that are so embedded in our thinking we take them for granted.
The thing is, as far as I’m concerned you can interpret texts however you like, and if you want to look at these a collection of complex historical texts in a reductive and tedious way ... well ... feel free.
In short: what Ruderetum said :)
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Dan H
at 15:13 on 2011-07-14
-- I really don't see a fundamental (as opposed to flavor) difference here. Eg., in what way is "Amadis of Gaul" fundamentally different from the books we're talking about?
I haven't actually read Amadis of Gaul (were I feeling glib, I might suggest that I see no evidence that you have either) so I can't comment on the content but I can certainly comment on the context.
Amadis of Gaul, Wikipedia informs me, is an Iberian Knight-errantry tale of uncertain authorship and has its origins in the traditions of chivalric romance. It is not actually a novel *at all*.
The Wise Man's fear, by contrast is a work of twenty-first century genre fiction. It was written by a single author, and published for the mass market and targeted at a clearly defined demographic whose preferences and habits its publishers will have invested both time and money in researching.
They are fundamentally different *sorts* of text and people read them for fundamentally different reasons.
I'd also point out that I see no reason for the burden of proof to be on me to demonstrate that Amadis of Gaul *is* different to the Wise Man's Fear when you have made no effort to demonstrate that it *isn't*.
That said the other important difference between Amadis and Kvothe is this.
Yes, both Amadis and Kvothe are highly skilled at what they do, but the crucial difference is how the two characters are supposed to relate to their *target audience*.
Amadis the Gaul was a chivalric romance. Its target audience would have been very broad, since it was almost certainly based on an existing popular narrative, and while there may be a narrow section of people who heard or read the story who really were, or really aspired to be, knights, the vast marjority would not have been, and would not have ever thought they could be (the fourteenth century was not, after all, known for its vast social mobility). He may have had individual virtues which individual readers might have recognised in themselves, but I see no evidence at all that he was supposed to be a stand-in for the reader.
Kvothe, by contrast, has a variety of qualities which his target audience (teenage geeks) are *extremley* likely to possess, and which grant him amazing abilities with little or no effort on his part. For example:
* He is extremely clever and this makes him excellent at schoolwork
* He is particularly skilled at technical subjects
* His supernatural powers come largely from understanding concrete technical laws (many of which are specifically derived from real-world physics and engineering)
* He is awkward around women
* He has had a very small amount of martial arts training
* He was picked on as a child but came into his own at university
All of these are qualities which the book's target audience are *extremely likely* to identify with *specifically*. You don't look at Kvothe and admire him for his cleverness, you look at him and you recognise in him your *own* cleverness, all of his skills parallel skills which geeks have in the *real world*. He's not somebody to look up to, he's *you*. Even his flaws are really virtues (his awkwardness with women, for example, actually makes him *more* attractive to the opposite sex).
That's the difference between a mythic or an inspirational story and wish fulfilment. A mythic hero embodies virtues to which you aspire, but which you know that you do not truly possess. A wish-fulfillment character has all of the same qualities you already have, but they work the way you *want* them to work instead of the way they really work. So your creepy inability to speak to women is transformed into an endearing shyness, your six months of kendo really does make you brilliant at fighting, and your nerdboy hobbies are the secret to saving the universe.
It is, in fact, an important and fundamental difference.
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Steve Stirling at 18:01 on 2011-07-15
A wish-fulfillment character has all of the same qualities you already have, but they work the way you *want* them to work instead of the way they really work. So your creepy inability to speak to women is transformed into an endearing shyness, your six months of kendo really does make you brilliant at fighting, and your nerdboy hobbies are the secret to saving the universe.
-- well, you have a point there.
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Steve Stirling at 18:05 on 2011-07-15
He may have had individual virtues which individual readers might have recognised in themselves, but I see no evidence at all that he was supposed to be a stand-in for the reader.
-- well, no, but that's not quite the point of wish-fulfillment. You don't think you're Superman, you -wish- you're Superman, and for the duration of the story you -imagine- you're Superman, able to do these amazing things.
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Dan H
at 10:27 on 2011-07-19On Superman: The really, really important thing about Superman is Clark Kent. Superman works as wish-fulfilment because Superman actually *isn't* Superman most of the time, he's this mild-mannered nebbishy guy with glasses (again, much like the intended target audience).
And of course the other thing to remember is that wish-fulfilment isn't a binary - as Orion and others have pointed out above, a lot of stories have wish-fulfilment *elements*, whereas Kvothe comes across to me as *pure* wish-fulfilment.
(Sorry I know Steve's been banned, but I thought this discussion might have been getting somewhere)
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Orion
at 06:18 on 2011-07-20Dan,
I never really read/watched Superman, but I'm interested by your comment, because it doesn't really match up with my experience of other secret identity setups. As a child, anyway, I never demanded that my protagonists have a "normal" life for me to identify with them; I had no trouble projecting myself onto the superhuman character directly.
I always assumed that the primary function of Clark Kent was as a narrative device. Superheroes generally and Superman in particular are just too effective when on stage in costume, so you have to give them human lives and duties to stretch out the plot and prevent them from solving everything immediately. Secondarily, I would imagine that Clark kent would actually pull the story toward the "redemption" end of my "redemption/wish fulfillment" spectrum by making the protagonist suffer.
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Dan H
at 12:13 on 2011-07-20
As a child, anyway, I never demanded that my protagonists have a "normal" life for me to identify with them; I had no trouble projecting myself onto the superhuman character directly.
I don't think I made my point clearly enough. It's not the fact that Superman has a secret identity that's the issue, it's the fact that despite his superpowers (and superpowers are really a red herring here) Superman is basically an ordinary guy with parents and a hometown and a job. (It is, I believe, often said in DC comics fandom that the difference between Batman and Superman is that Superman is really Clark Kent, whereas Bruce Wayne is really Batman).
Without Clark Kent, Superman would basically be Dr Manhattan, and while you can certainly imagine that it would be *cool* to be the Big Blue Guy, you aren't really invited to imagine that he *is* you, which I would argue is a necessary part of wish-fulfilment.
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Orion
at 15:40 on 2011-07-20That makes a lot of sense. In the general case, we could say that wish-fulfillment only works when the character basically thinks like the reader, so that they tend to do with their opportunities the kinds of things the reader would want to imagine doing.
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http://sprizouse.blogspot.com/
at 07:37 on 2011-08-21There was a
long comment thread
running over at Crooked Timber and I ended up bringing up this critique. Anyway, the post was about NPR's list of Top 100 Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels and I thought you should take a look at both the CT post (and comments thread) and the NPR list. Your input would probably be appreciated.
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http://sunnyskywalker.livejournal.com/
at 01:49 on 2011-09-01I had some fun running the Wikipedia entries for both books through Regender.com.
http://regender.com/swap/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Name_of_the_Wind
http://regender.com/swap/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wise_Man%27s_Fear
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to handle compound words well, so it didn't manage to rename the series
The Queenkiller Chronicles
, but otherwise... very interesting!
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https://me.yahoo.com/a/EcqJaTxyotMBIWa7wHjFXrVfJz29#49b9a
at 02:24 on 2012-06-15
Is there any sign or hint that Kvothe is ever going to fail at something in a manner which he can't recover from within a hundred pages or so?
You mean, aside from the fact that his sympathy no longer works, he's lost his ability to fight, he no longer plays music at all.......?
Yes, there is a sign. Perhaps you could call it a hint. Or perhaps the biggest unanswered question in the entire story.
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Shim
at 08:13 on 2012-06-15
You mean, aside from the fact that his sympathy no longer works, he's lost his ability to fight, he no longer plays music at all.......?
I haven't read the book, but those sound like pretty general, narrative losses rather than actual failures, if you see what I mean.
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James D
at 18:01 on 2012-06-15
Some of the fire left her, but when she found her voice it was tight and dangerous. “my skills 'suffice'?” She hardly seemed able to force out the last word. Her mouth formed a thin, outraged line. I exploded, my voice a roll of thunder. “How the hell am I supposed to know? It's not like I've ever done this sort of thing before!” She reeled back at the vehemence of my words, some of the anger draining out of her. “what is it you mean?” she trailed off, confused. “This!” I gestured awkwardly at myself, at her, at the cushions and the pavilion around us, as if that explained everything. The last of the anger left her as I saw realization begin to dawn, “you...” “No,” I looked down, my face growing hot. “I have never been with a woman.” Then I straightened and looked her in the eye as if challenging her to make an issue of it.” Felurian was still for a moment, then let her mouth turn up into a wry smile. “you tell me a faerie story, my kvothe.” I felt my face go grim. I don't mind being called a liar. I am. I am a marvellous liar. But I hate being called a liar when I'm telling the perfect truth. Regardless of my motivation, my expression seemed to convince her. “but you were like a gentle summer storm.” She made a fluttering gesture with a hand. “you were a dancer fresh upon the field.” Her eyes glittered wickedly.
I haven't read the book, but this dialog is waayyyyy too over-narrated for my tastes. I was rather surprised, given the author apparently has a sterling reputation. Seriously, there is more description of the characters' expressions than actual dialog there, and a lot of the expressions would be evident from the dialog alone. Do we really have to be told he's exploding when the next words out of his mouth are "how the hell am I supposed to know?" That whole scene just seems to fall into the same "more is more" trap a lot of modern fantasy authors are in. More description, more worldbuilding, more detail, less left up to the imagination, less engagement of the reader in the storytelling process.
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http://fishinginthemud.livejournal.com/
at 05:23 on 2012-06-16It doesn't help that the narrator sounds like a complete tool.
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valse de la lune
at 08:34 on 2012-06-17His voice a roll of thunder, no less. This is the brilliant writing all the fanboys praised?
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Dan H
at 14:29 on 2012-06-17
Seriously, there is more description of the characters' expressions than actual dialog there, and a lot of the expressions would be evident from the dialog alone.
There does seem to be a peculiar bit of received wisdom amongst a certain type of reader (and therefore a certain type of writer) that "just" dialogue isn't proper writing. I'm largely making this up, but I think it's born out of a prejudice against things which seem "simple" or possibly a desire to seem intellectual. It might also be a misplaced reaction against books which fail by trying to emulate films (or conversely, it may be that it appeals specifically to an audience accustomed to visual media, who expect every line of dialogue to be accompanied by some visual cue). It might also (I really am just guessing here) overlap with that nonsensical "use all the senses" advice you get in mediocre writing guides.
I don't like to be too smug about this sort of thing, but I do sometimes feel that a lot of Rothfuss' reputation for great writing stems from his adopting a style which overlaps with his audience's preconceptions about what good writing ought to look like. It's the kind of writing which makes you feel clever, and I suspect that his audience are particularly fond of feeling clever. Of course *criticizing* this sort of writing also makes you feel clever, so the audience kind of wins either way on this one.
I actually don't think Rothfuss' writing is that bad - The Wise Man's Fear wasn't hard to read because it was badly written, it was hard to read because it was nearly a thousand fucking pages and nothing fucking happens in it.
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Michal
at 18:20 on 2012-06-17Hmm, I'm not sure if it's fair to base your opinion of whether it's well-written or not on a single passage, since just about every book has its awkward bits. I agree that what's there isn't all that impressive and painfully overwritten, but I think the situation described would've made me throw the book against the wall, not the writing-style.
From what I've read of
The Name of the Wind
(which admittedly isn't that much) I also didn't quite understand the praise Rothfuss's prose; I mean, there were some nice passages but there's quite a lot of space between them filled with not-so-great stuff. It's better than Paolini or Brooks or Goodkind but that's setting the bar really fucking low. I didn't quit reading because of the prose. I quit because I found Kvothe insufferable.
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Arthur B
at 18:29 on 2012-06-17
Hmm, I'm not sure if it's fair to base your opinion of whether it's well-written or not on a single passage, since just about every book has its awkward bits. I agree that what's there isn't all that impressive and painfully overwritten, but I think the situation described would've made me throw the book against the wall, not the writing-style.
This. There's a world of stuff to howl at in that extract before you even begin to consider the prose.
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James D
at 20:05 on 2012-06-17
I actually don't think Rothfuss' writing is that bad - The Wise Man's Fear wasn't hard to read because it was badly written, it was hard to read because it was nearly a thousand fucking pages and nothing fucking happens in it.
As a reader, I tend to value a writer's style pretty highly, and given that his style is so often praised, I was just rather surprised at how overwrought the snippets you quoted were. If they're not representative of the whole book, well, you should've picked better ones!
Honestly I'm not sure there's anything tremendously wrong with the plot of the sex goddess bit though - isn't the book presented as basically an egotistical liar's autobiography? Couldn't he just be making it up to make himself look good? It's just too absurd for me to believe that Rothfuss expected people to take it seriously. Not to say that simply using an unreliable narrator is an instant ticket to literary quality, but maybe the problem isn't so much that the stories are filled unbelievable self-aggrandizement, but that Rothfuss failed at making Kvothe egotistical and charming, so he ended up insufferable instead. I imagine the book might be pretty fun if it were clear that Kvothe was just a loser who made up absurdly flattering, highly improbable stories about himself. And if it were maybe 300 pages long.
Just as an aside, The Wise Man's Fear recently won the David Gemmell Legend Award for Best Fantasy Novel of 2011.
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Arthur B
at 20:41 on 2012-06-17
Honestly I'm not sure there's anything tremendously wrong with the plot of the sex goddess bit though - isn't the book presented as basically an egotistical liar's autobiography? Couldn't he just be making it up to make himself look good?
I dunno about other people here, but my usual response to egotistical tossers bragging about their unlikely sexual exploits is to disengage from the conversation ASAP, by whatever means necessary. Smarmy bullshit is smarmy bullshit, regardless of whether you're intended to believe it or not.
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Michal
at 20:52 on 2012-06-17
isn't the book presented as basically an egotistical liar's autobiography?
Well,
The Name of the Wind
certainly wasn't, since the frame story made it clear Kvothe really was just that awesome. Any cracks in the narrative this time around, Dan?
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http://fishinginthemud.livejournal.com/
at 21:25 on 2012-06-17
I dunno about other people here, but my usual response to egotistical tossers bragging about their unlikely sexual exploits is to disengage from the conversation ASAP, by whatever means necessary.
Yeah, I don't really see what other response there is. The kind of wish-fulfillment this book seems intended to provide seems like it would be better delivered through, say, a video game. Hearing some douchebag talk about fucking hot chicks doesn't quite make me feel like I'm in his place.
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James D
at 21:32 on 2012-06-17Maybe I am being too generous then. I'm just trying really hard to understand what people see in the books beyond typical fantasy wish-fulfillment+adventure, but maybe that's all it is, minus the benefit of a tight plot books in that style need.
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Dan H
at 23:21 on 2012-06-17
As a reader, I tend to value a writer's style pretty highly, and given that his style is so often praised, I was just rather surprised at how overwrought the snippets you quoted were. If they're not representative of the whole book, well, you should've picked better ones!
They're fairly representative (although Felurian speaks in a *particularly* flowery way) - it's just that I don't think the writing is particularly *bad*, just not especially *good*. Or perhaps to put it another way, what flaws there are in the writing are just a specific instance of the far more general problem of the book being smug, up itself, and nowhere near as smart as it thinks it is. I might also suggest that amongst fantasy readers "well written" is code for "overwritten" four times out of five.
Honestly I'm not sure there's anything tremendously wrong with the plot of the sex goddess bit though - isn't the book presented as basically an egotistical liar's autobiography?
Very much not. It's the autobiography of somebody *extremely self-deprecating*. As evidenced by the awful bits where Kvothe point blank refuses to narrate all of the bits where he actually does interesting stuff. Framing-story Kvothe is a broken man, and he is extremely reluctant to acknowledge his own triumphs - Bast actually has to explicitly instruct the Chronicler to encourage him to focus on them, because Kvothe's own sense of guilt over the Terrible Things That Happen In Book Three is such that he no longer trusts himself.
Effectively it's *exactly the opposite* of the Baron Munchausen story - Kvothe isn't a fantasist or a teller of tall tales, he's a genuine hero who is uncomfortable with his own heroism.
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James D
at 00:04 on 2012-06-18
Effectively it's *exactly the opposite* of the Baron Munchausen story - Kvothe isn't a fantasist or a teller of tall tales, he's a genuine hero who is uncomfortable with his own heroism.
Yech. Why the fuck do so many people like this book again?
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http://fishinginthemud.livejournal.com/
at 02:03 on 2012-06-18Because nothing tops off a douche sandwich like a nice juicy glob of emo.
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http://omarsakr.wordpress.com/
at 08:23 on 2012-08-22Hey Dan,
I've recently stumbled across a few of your articles and I'm currently experiencing the giddy highs of a high-school girl's crush, or what I imagine that would feel like anyway. Still, I'll refrain from allowing that to develop further just yet because a) it's creepy as balls and b) the interwebs are full of disappointing traps and a few well written articles that espouse similar ideas and opinions to my own doesn't preclude you from being say, I don't know, a rabid Tea Partier (no matter how many times I write that or look it, it just seems wrong).
Anyway, I just wanted to comment to say thank you! I've felt like, for the longest time, I've been alone in my dismissal of Rothfuss and my dismay at the critical acclaim he's received. Don't get me wrong, he seems like a great guy and he's a passable writer, but he in no way deserves the absurd praise that's been heaped on him. I remember writing an article years ago about how overrated he and GRRM are as authors today (although the latter is certainly more deserving). So, it's been great to read your articles (albeit belatedly) and the comments that so accurately carve these books up.
In WMF you correctly pointed out a passage that utterly ruined the book for me. I was willing to overlook a lot of what you pointed out, due to its light entertainment factor, until I read the 'I was on my way to X when this and this and this happened to me but I don't have time to tell you about any of those exciting things because the story must go on'. What thoroughly pissed me off about the ensuing billion-page section was that NOTHING HAPPENED. There's a stupidly long section where Kyvothe and his band are sitting around the woods telling each other stories just so Rothfuss could indulge in meta-wankery, his constant wink-wink nudge-nude can you see that I'm telling a story about a guy telling a story about how he and some other guys told stories once and the way stories within stories are blah blah blah.
That section of the book filled me with rage. Goddamn.
Okay, just had to get that off my chest. He writes easy, simple prose that's really engaging and this could have been a much better series but for all the reasons you pointed out, he, the series itself, and his fans need to get over themselves and be a little less pretentious about the whole shebang. Serious fantasy my ass.
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Arthur B
at 10:03 on 2012-08-22
a few well written articles that espouse similar ideas and opinions to my own doesn't preclude you from being say, I don't know, a rabid Tea Partier
If it's any reassurance, Dan's preferred coffee for about as long as I've known him.
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http://fishinginthemud.livejournal.com/
at 17:07 on 2012-08-23
his fans need to get over themselves and be a little less pretentious about the whole shebang
Well, the rabid Nice Guy geek contingent has tried every other personality flaw, so it's about time they tried pretentious literary snobbery.
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http://everstar3.livejournal.com/
at 03:17 on 2013-06-12I realize I am quite late to this discussion, but I write now to thank you for saving my Kindle, because if I'd read that speech of Felurian's on it, I most likely would have thrown it across the room.
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Robinson L
at 10:36 on 2013-07-19Found this via a friend of mine, who's a major fan of the books:
looks like the Kingkiller Chronicles is being adapted into a TV series
.
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Dan H
at 22:47 on 2013-07-19What is it with people making TV shows of interminable fantasy series that the authors have shown no signs of actually being able to finish?
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Arthur B
at 22:54 on 2013-07-19
What is it with people making TV shows of interminable fantasy series that the authors have shown no signs of actually being able to finish?
Because brick-sized open-ended novels with silly numbers of characters and no end in sight make for great soap operas?
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Melanie
at 06:37 on 2013-07-20
What is it with people making TV shows of interminable fantasy series that the authors have shown no signs of actually being able to finish?
The more books the author writes
without
finishing it, the more the tv show can be dragged out?
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Jules V.O.
at 13:30 on 2013-07-20There's a bit in the last Twilight movie where things go completely off-the-rails awesome because the director decided to be all sarcastic and show the threatened climactic showdown action scene, before revealing it to be a dream or something; 'you could have been watching a story where things happen,' is the none-too-subtle subtext. It is by far the best part of the entire series, and includes more decapitations than the entirety of Master of the Flying Guillotine.
In that vein, I suspect the best part of the KC show would be the 'storm, piracy, treachery, and shipwreck' segment, where the lack of specificity would give them the freedom to fill in some conventional(ly satisfying) content.
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Arthur B
at 14:01 on 2013-07-20
There's a bit in the last Twilight movie where things go completely off-the-rails awesome because the director decided to be all sarcastic and show the threatened climactic showdown action scene, before revealing it to be a dream or something; 'you could have been watching a story where things happen,' is the none-too-subtle subtext. It is by far the best part of the entire series, and includes more decapitations than the entirety of Master of the Flying Guillotine.
I do love the fact that the
Breaking Dawn
director was like "Fuck it, I'm just going to do exactly what the text says rather than presenting whatever it is people think they see in the text", so lo and behold
an adult werewolf falls in love with a baby.
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