#i focused on the other relationships with the ways they compared to Mehmet's

[mc-critical]

Ok, I just found your blog and I am still reading through it (and loving how insightful and careful and expressive you are btw!) I was wondering if you would mind talking about Suleyman's relationship with Mehmet? I think their relationship is the only father-son relationship in both shows that is actually "pure" and as healthy as can be. Of course that could have changed had Mehmet lived longer and Suleyman's paranoia with his sons wanting his throne grew. I particularly don't think it would, but at the same time I can see how it could since he once did have a pure and good relationship with Mustafa too. With that said I must say that I would also love to listen to your thoughts about Suly relationship with his others sons (or only Mustafa since he is the easiest to compare to Mehmet). Thanks in advance hon!

Thank you so much! I'm glad you're enjoying yourself in my blog! :)

Süleiman's relationship with Mehmet is certainly the most "inoffensive" relationship he ever had with a prince of his and that would be a given because Mehmet was, in fact, his favourite prince. I feel the writing contributed much more to their dynamic than the other factors: despite of the refreshing "purity" of it, the relationship is very basic in nature - most of it was centered around Mehmet's desperate pleas to go to a sanjack and Süleiman giving him praise, sometimes just because. Mehmet as a character, had very stiff characterization throughout the season he was in; the narrative consistently refused to go somewhere with him and that extended to his interactions as well - they reveled only in casual dialogue, all setup, no payoff. The foundation of his interactions was there, but the meat of these interactions wasn't. His relationship with SS was the pinnacle of this, because for him being SS's special, golden child, almost all of their scenes felt a little underwhelming, to say the least. Mehmet's lack of development gave off the vibe that his relationship with SS was stuck in the same place and in repetition and one could argue that this lack of fleshing out, is the reason that it was presented in such a good faith during all of its screentime, compared to the other father-son relationships in the franchise.

Still, the relationship does hold its thematic merit, nonetheless. A part of their dynamic did give us a decent framework that helped us drive conclusions - and that part is: the dream that SS had before Mehmet was born. It acts as the backstory of SS's relationship with Mehmet, in a way, and it puts some things into perspective. When we learn about this dream, it becomes obvious that Mehmet didn't become, but had always been SS's favourite from day one, and the dream makes the first step to explain why does SS believe in him so much and see him on the throne from the get-go. That said, aside from this driving force, the other reasons as to why SS prefers him specifically to everyone else are presented more subtly and "between the lines" than they are within the relationship. That's why I agree with you that SS probably wouldn't be as paranoid of Mehmet as he was of the other princes if he lived longer. There had to be a reason for SS to get paranoid and as far as S03 went, Mehmet never gave him one - he was both very passive and very obedient, willing to disregard even Mihrimah's feelings to be loyal to his majesty's decision to marry her to Rüstem. And I don't think he was going to give him a reason later on, either, knowing his personality. That unshaking, persistent loyalty to the sultan's whims perhaps flattered him a lot and that's something he didn't want to lose, which is where his ample praise for him comes from. The scene in E74 where he talks to Mehmet about the Fatih law is interesting in that we do get a sense of fatherly protection when it comes to Mehmet, he sees his virtues that are probably the best qualities for a prince under his reign and wants to prepare him for the seemingly inevitable as early as possible, for him to be able to react adequately when the time comes and keep his loyalties intact. That could also explain why Hürrem (and Süleiman) didn't let him go to a province for the longest time: even though I find it to be more of a plot issue and stretching for Mustafa's sending to Amasya to be a plot twist and Mehmet to have his 15 minutes of fame only in the last episode of the season than an irritant with both Hürrem and Süleiman's characters, this narrative choice made Mehmet as close to SS as possible, cementing his preferences for him and giving him a chance to witness that loyalty himself, devoid of supporters who could turn things around for him for the sake of the love of the people or pragmatism. The massive idea that loyalty to the padişah is above all and the unrelenting paranoia of betrayal are angles of SS's character that are explored to the fullest in S04 rather than S03 (starting right from his words in one of the S04 trailers: "All I wish for is loyalty. Absolute loyalty!") and his relationships to the other princes and the way they end up in the narrative are what make the full picture, which could make SS's relationship with Mehmet be examined better only in rewatches than in the particular season. That sure gives bonus points to the dynamic, but it is a minus in Mehmet's specific portion of the series, making the relationship fail in the end, despite of some thematic redeeming qualities here and there. I can appreciate what it does in the story and what facet it gives to Süleiman, but there was a significant amount of wasted potential that prevented me from enjoying it in the fullest and rendered it kinda shallow.

You're spot on that SS's relationship with Mehmet and his relationship with Mustafa are the easiest to compare and contrast, because not only do they share a season, but we have the least fleshed out relationship vs. the most fleshed out relationship right in front of us. It's true that SS's relationship with Mustafa was very innocent and pure in the beginning, him even saying that his heart melts when he hears of Hürrem and Mustafa in E05, but the cracks began to appear fairly early in the story, by E29 when he threw that massive fit when Mustafa didn't want to listen and then he was still a child. We could argue that this was the first sign of SS's coming downward spiral, given that we had Valide call him out and tell him she saw his father in him (and becoming like Selim I was SS's biggest fear, as highlighted in E121). SS's relationship with Mustafa underwent constant evolution throughout the series, with him growing more and more suspicious of Mustafa with every single move he made until it all reached the final conclusion, acting as a culmination of the show that had been building up for so long. SS and Mustafa was a very centered relationship that leaned on interactions and confrontations. SS's relationship with Mehmet, by constrast, is very light on tension overall, it keeps itself consistent throughout the narrative and that consistent praise Mehmet gets never disappears. There isn't a change of perspective, there isn't development, there isn't a point of contention that becomes SS's major gaping weakness. SS and Mustafa's relationship is focused on the massive paranoia that reaches its peak, SS and Mehmet's is exclusively lacking of said paranoia. The double-edged sword of all the support Mustafa gets drifts SS away from him, the lack of said support with Mehmet (he didn't go to the sanjack until E103, so no chance for support of the people. He hasn't done anything to get their attention and it doesn't seem like Hürrem wants him to have that, either.) brings him closer to SS. It's also important to note that Mustafa and Mehmet have different roles in the narrative and are created with different themes within the narrative in mind, that's why one relationship seems to prevail over the other. (I elaborated more on that when I talked about their deaths.) Mustafa could've been the favourite very early on (though S03's "baby Mehmet on the throne" dream lowkey retcons that), but by him growing up, he began to have mixed feelings that would hint him losing faith in Mustafa altogether, with SS already getting used to the belief that he would slowly lose his innocence; From the point he grew up, on the other hand, Mehmet was counted on so much by Süleiman and he was both filled with hope that he would keep his innocence, but gain a sense of maturity while still believing in the best. That could've reminded SS of his S01 self, in a way, who had a considerably bigger regard for his family than in later seasons.

But while the sultan's relationship with Mustafa is the indeed the most suited for a contrast with his relationship with Mehmet, the relationship he shares with Cihangir is the closest to its nature. There are so many parallels to draw here, especially the sense of innocence: Süleiman's desire for protection of Mehmet and intent to both maintain his innocence and righteousness in terms of the battle for the throne seems to "get its payoff" with Cihangir - he doesn't need to do that with him, because the throne isn't an option for Cihangir to afford and that way he has gained a fair, yet heartfelt perspective. He's the prince who has the most chance to retain his innocence, seemingly the least likely to pick sides and to still lean on his family and give them his wise advice when he's become an adult, which makes Süleiman affectionate of him in a different, yet the same way that he is of Mehmet. And similarly to Mehmet, Süleiman becomes attached to the boy almost immediately, in advance, with his illness causing such a massive impact on his psyche and his life. It all creates kind of a fascinating connection between SS and Hürrem's first and last prince that contrastingly parallels them in a significant way: Mehmet is the prince both SS and Hürrem want on the throne and rely on, Cihangir is the one that could never get the throne that SS and Hürrem still rely on and love as dearly. As a contrast to Mehmet, the times where the "purity" of the relationship with Cihangir falls to pieces are the times where Cihangir actually picks sides and worse yet, picks the side of the one SS's most suspicious of and openly asks him to reconsider firm decisions, which breaks apart SS's idea of "absolute loyalty", something that Mehmet would never do. However, that's the only major difference between these relationships and the reasons for SS's affection of both are fairly similar: Mehmet and Cihangir have something unique the other don't in SS's (and Hürrem's) eyes, so they get an extreme amount of affection from him when they don't dare to defy him.

SS and Bayezid as a relationship is a contrast to SS and Mehmet mostly when it comes to their beginnings. As I said, while Mehmet became SS's favourite child from day one because of the dream, SS seemed to have a lower opinion on Bayezid also from day one. I know about the display around E93 where he went on the campaign by his own intent when SS told him to say, but it somehow looked like SS doubted him even before that with him not wanting to let him in in the first place (a repeated scenario from E85), once again, for seemingly no reason except to set up Bay's resentment for him. (also historical reasoning probably, but when it comes to the show, these exist more for the setup of character motivation than for a mere demonstration of the customs of the time period; case in point: SS asigning Amasya to Mustafa.) Unlike all the other princes, Bayezid had not even once been an object of SS's favouritism and their relationship only kept devolving from there, with it impacting Bayezid so severely he said Mustafa was wrong not to rebel against him and decided to raise an army. So SS's relationship with Bay focused more on how he reacted to SS's decisions rather than the way SS reacted to the prince's actions like it was with the others. Like Mehmet, SS had one particular mindset when it came to Bayezid (established even further in E105: "Some people have a sickness on their backs, some have it inside of them!" - quoting by memory) and it drove their whole relationship. There wasn't a change of perspective here. The only point of struggle and dilemma was during his death episode, exactly like how SS's prophetic dream and the reaction to Mehmet's death was the only dramatic point in that relationship. [Another interesting thing about Bayezid is that his relationship with SS wasn't the most fleshed out thing about him, in spite of its dramatic stakes. His most fleshed out relationship was with Selim and that relationship was the true core of his character arc. Bayezid, like Mehmet and Cihangir, is a character that was driven by familial relationships and loyalty, which is why he had a more detailed relationship with his other brothers than he did with Süleiman. And as a character whose arc is about familial conflict, it's only natural that the peak of his most prominent familial conflict would be the end of him. Him being executed by Selim, not Süleiman isn't such a surprise anymore and it definitely doesn't do a disservice to neither of these characters. In contrast we had Mustafa's core story be centered around his relationship with Süleiman, which is why his dynamic with the brothers isn't as fleshed out in comparison. His demise is a theme the show needed to explore, while Bayezid's is another, as inportant theme to explore. That's probably why, even though I gave it flack writing-wise early on, SS is Mehmet's most fleshed out relationship, despite of the fleshing out being simply retroactive and thematic and leaves a lot to be desired.]

The relationship between SS and Selim is perhaps the father-son relationship with the most flavor in the show. It goes many ways in terms of development, it doesn't have a clear path until much later on and it becomes a constant push and pull between Selim's wins and mistakes and Süleiman's view of them. Like Mehmet, Selim eventually becomes the most preferred heir, but it's interesting how so much emphasis is put on his efforts to get there - his cunning and schemes that only give off a distorted idea of "loyalty" Süleiman is unfortunately already all in. I would say that Selim is the pinnacle of Süleiman's toxicity in terms of both his paranoia and favoritism, him wanting Selim on the throne because he seemingly obeys, not because of the qualities he has gained I actually don't think SS is aware of. Because he got severely called out when SS saw him drink in Manisa and it took quite a while for things to go back to normal between them. The relationship is the most real embodiment of the game of survival Magnificent Century relishes so much in and it shows well how quickly you can both become pulled out of favor and a favourite in a blink of an eye. Gosh, Selim really had it hard!

#magnificent century #sehzade mehmet #sultan suleiman #sehzade mustafa #sehzade selim #sehzade bayezid #cihangir #ask #librarian-witchling #long post #i focused on the other relationships with the ways they compared to Mehmet's #that's why I didn't go in more detail #i hope that's fine!

[mc-critical]

Who do you think, out of the entire MC franchise, would you say was the best mother? I would honestly have to say Mahidevran since she was so nurturing and compassionate towards Mustafa (I loved their scenes together) and you could tell Mustafa’s safety always came first to her. What are your thoughts?

No mother of the franchise is perfect and as I’ve said before, there is no way mothers in the harem can develop a completely healthy (as we know it) relationship with their children. Still, I appreciate the various types of mothers we saw in MC/K and I usually love the scenes they have with their sons and/or daughters, since they enrich the characters and give them more humanity and depth.

I think I’ll also put Mahidevran as the best mother of the franchise. To be fair, one important writing advantage she possesses over the rest is that her relationship with Mustafa is probably the most fleshed out mother-son relationship of the entire franchise - we saw it develop in the span of four seasons and we saw every possible side of it. Mahidevran’s motherhood is a very vital aspect of her character: her love for Mustafa has always been there ever since her introduction and after she lost SS, Mustafa was all she had left. Everyone around her encouraged her to focus only on him and his upbringing. That didn’t seem so easy for a person who had yet to adapt to the immediate changes of her life and to accept the loss of a person that has undoubtedly been very important to her, but Mustafa has been there with her in every step of the way and the support they gave each other as early as S01 was very profound and human and I couldn’t help but tear up many times. And most remarkably, when she put her past in Manisa behind, when she truly focused the most on Mustafa, Mahidevran’s motherhood became a powerful indicator of her character development and I truly can’t think of another mother who evolved this beautifully.

Mahidevran has very strong motherly instincts outside of Mustafa and I loved how she saved Mehmet, the care she took of Mihrimah during the Janissary rebellion and the understanding she provided when Mehmet was struck with the arrow in E75. Hürrem also had equally strong motherly instincts during the same rebellion as well and I admire her for it, but one could argue it’s a little more surprising for Mahidevran to show them in such a way - back in S01, pre-E16, she didn’t seem to show signs that she could take care of the children of her enemy like that. Not many people would expect a person who has wished Hürrem’s death in her childbirths to do that at all. And yet she did. Once she saved Mehmet, we found out that she didn’t want the children’s deaths at all, even though she did make an attempt on Hürrem’s life when she was pregnant out of hurt and desperation. In fact, Mahidevran’s hate for Hürrem seems to be unbreakable, to know no bounds, except when it concerns the children. Once that happens, this is the only time she’s ready to let go. These are the only times she could ever understand Hürrem. The one scene where she herself went to her in good terms, to the point of her trying to return her ring, happened after she found out Hürrem protected Mustafa. It is clear that children and motherhood are important to Mahidevran, so important they can become the most important things in her life, so important she can leave her enmity with Hürrem for that and that alone. And conversely, her hatred for Hürrem reached the strongest peaks when it concerned Mustafa, as well: once he was exiled to Amasya and once he died, respectively, giving her a whole new motive to live and seek justice from the hands of God.

The advices (E55 and E56 aside) she gave to Mustafa are Mahidevran at her most perceptive - she speaks both from heart and experience and does her best at nurturing and caring for her son, understanding his struggles the way no one else could. Mustafa seeking vast support from everyone comes as much from her as it does from Ibrahim (I’m referring to this scene in particular) and while that sure is a double-edged sword when it comes to Süleiman’s opinion, it did motivate Mustafa to give his all to be the best heir he can be and gave him a certain upper hand over his brothers. Her advices are also her at her most decisive - showing that at this point, she knows what she’s talking about and can easily sense danger and warn accordingly. She has gained a fair sense of paranoia when it comes to his safety (understandably enough) and that is a factor of her advices as well, but it proves that she can be careful, that she isn’t as naive as she may look and that it’s not that easy to deceive her as it may have seemed.

Interestingly enough, before Mahidevran fell out of love with SS, she was fighting with her own loss and winning SS back and her hurt over it may seem to have taken primacy over the advantages she has as a mother. In E10, her first thought was Mustafa when SS appeared dead. Even in E55, she begins to look at her own possible advantageous position that comes with Mustafa only after Valide reminded her that she has her son. The falling out of love has started to the point she can openly think of her own future, but her feelings for SS were still conflicted and she could freely remember all the good times with him and lament them before she considered standing up. Her arc was moving back and forth between Mustafa, Süleiman and her own independence before she completed the full transition and had the chance to embrace the comparatively calmer environment and take full hand on Mustafa. Which is why Mustafa not being a priority at all is exactly Mahidevran at her worst. Due to her will for revenge, it was him she detached from to the point of her not wanting to go to Manisa with him in order to finish her battle with Hürrem in the form of ruling the harem. That was the only moment where she considerably detached herself from one of her best virtues and arguably did the most mistakes, culminating in a definite loss, for that moment. But we can say this was a learning experience for her, the cathartic process that granted her an entirely new push in strength and made her both a better character and a better mother than ever.

Yes, Mahidevran isn’t the perfect mother and she could inadvertently put Mustafa in danger due to her own personal pride being wounded (E48), her tears that could sometimes turn into breakdowns (E23) definitely affected him a lot to the point he was constantly willing to defend her, which, admittedly, could cause trouble (once again E48), but I could understand all this, because when everyone else doesn’t seem to alleviate your pain in the best way in your eyes, you become helpless when you have nobody else to confide in. For Mahidevran Mustafa was the only one she could truly confide in and he was her only tangible source of comfort when she’s pained to the point she can’t think rationally, in a way. There were definetly moments where she was ready to assert her own power through him, involving him in her fights. But once again, these things were stuff she developed out of, now indeed considering his safety first and foremost, telling him to stay away from any and all danger and to not provoke his enemies in any way. She became ready to eliminate all threats to him by herself and that’s also why she commited her biggest sin in the series: it was in a desperate, urgent attempt to protect Mustafa that she killed Mehmet. She thought only about him then, never about herself. (in E101 we see that Mustafa isn’t in the best condition after being exiled in Amasya to the point he was willing to not let anyone close to him and commit suicide and Mahidevran knew this, giving orders to Taşlicalı through Fidan to not leave him alone while she’s gone. With that I wanna thank Joanna for noticing this a while back! <33) She was ready to do anything and everything for him. Her path as a mother is heartfelt and fascinating to me.

I find Ayşe Hafsa to also be a very good mother, though. She was also the most notable in her advices and perceptiveness she delivered to SS. It was for a reason he thought of her as his conscience and seeing how he spiraled down massively after her absence, she may have been a huge part of his justice system, even though there were times where he disregarded her. She grounded him and told him which lines he shouldn’t cross just as she provided emotional support when he left for campaigns or went in the divan.

Her and Hatice are probably the best mother and daughter relationship on the franchise (Gevherhan and Kosem come as a close second), for there we saw genuine love and genuine support, as well. She fell ill precisely for the thought of her daughter’s pain after she learns about Ibrahim and Nigar. Hafsa is more tradition-bound and that may cause her to disregard her children’s wishes or cross paths with them quite a few times, but her motherhood is certainly one of her good qualities, especially when it shined through her flanderization in S02.

Despite of her cold pragmatism, Şah seemed to be a very good mother, all things considered. She was able to put Esmahan's wishes above her own by agreeing to try marrying her to Bali Bey and most importantly, sparing Lütfi Pasha for her sake alone.

I don’t consider Hürrem to be a totally bad mother by any means, especially how, as I mentioned, her motherly instincts can be as strong as Mahidevran’s, but there are factors where she falls a little short for me. One of them is screentime, to be brutally honest: we simply didn’t get much of her relationship with Mehmet for this reason, except for the schematic praise, hope for him to be the padisah and her not allowing him to go to the sanjack. We didn’t get much of her with Mihrimah in S03, either, even though their S03A relationship is the best part of it for me. I love her relationships with Selim, Bayezid and Cihangir much, much more writing-wise and my favourite point of Hürrem as a mother, as I mentioned once, is the S02B Cihangir arc. There we see her genuine concern over him that puts her motherhood to the forefront, we see how terrified she is of his incoming operation and that’s Hürrem at her most emotionally honest overall (and I wish we had more of that!). I love her protective mama bear attitude. I love how she managed to keep her children away from conflict in the earlier seasons (with the exception of little Mihrimah in S02A) and that certainly gave her some advantage.

Her problems as a mother, however, appeared later down the line and managed to prevail, with her mishandling of the Selim and Bayezid conflict being her biggest failing in the whole show for me. Her fixation on her enemies, or Mustafa in particular, dominated in how she dealt with her children in S04, to the point she moulded them for the political game, made pragmatic decisions she explained far too late (like why she sent Selim in Manisa), condemned them for their mistakes more than necessary (Mihrimah) and attempted to make them fully fixated on one goal, to no avail. I get her motives - Mehmet’s death empowered her will for revenge in an enormous way and she is now even more desperate to win the fight of her life that would help her make them respect her, ,,kneel to her feet’’ and defeat them all, but that way she had to make her children fully commit to that same fight, putting their personal feelings and desires behind and sometimes overlooking their own problems. She loves her children a lot and the realization that she had to choose between Selim and Bayezid broke her to pieces, but some problems manage to outweigh that. She’s an interesting, relatable in this time period, mother, but I certainly wouldn’t call her the best one of the franchise.

We didn’t see much of Nurbanu as a mother, but she certainly seemed to love Murad, but show strictness as well. We also saw how ruthless she can get when it comes to the survival of her and her son when she was about to kill Defne's kids.

Defne is a very nurturing mother, from what we saw. She's probably shown as a nurturer the most when it comes to all the mothers and her love and protection of her children is warm, yet heartbreaking, especially because she's ready to take risks she never had when Nurbanu comes for them. That scene was the peak of her removing her loyalties to her in general.

I wouldn’t compare the dynastic sultanas like Hatice or Gevherhan as mothers, simply because they’re not very often shown as such. Hatice wanted to have children so badly, but we didn’t see her much with her living children, which is solely a writing issue. Gevherhan isn’t seen as a mother that much to comment on it, either, even though yes, she clearly loves her children.

Safiye is another deal: she loves her children, but keeping her power has always taken primacy over them. Though it’s not to be denied that their deaths are moments of big vulnerability for her and indicators for the last ounces of her humanity - once Fahriye died, she seemed to have lost some of that humanity. Once Iskender died, she was finally willing to let go. But this humanity in her motherly relationships couples with her moments of disregarding them: as seen with Fahriye and especially, Humasah. There was a hinted resentment of Humasah’s of Safiye, and I’m sure there was a reason for it, despite of Humasah listening to her still in some cases.

Handan is a comparatively good mother. She also tries her best to protect Ahmet from stronger enemies and he is the reason she had fought this war against Safiye and Halime and ended up outranking them. One part she commited suicide was perhaps because she didn’t see any sign of acceptance in Ahmet of her love with Dervish, one of the few things that made her happy in the cage that is the castle. Getting such strong disapproval from her own son… it hurt.

I see Kösem as a mother that cares about her children, but is often forced to couple them with the needs of the country or caves in to the necessity to represent the traditions, as well as the country. That’s why she ended both Ibrahim and Murat, no matter how much she didn’t want to. Her whole arc was about the dilemma of representing the state and her own motherly persona and she fought the fratricide law so hardly, for no one to endure their children being killed no more. She knows best what is like to lose children and that also motivated her in doing what she considered right in ruling the empire, trying her best to stop any failings.

I elaborated in the past on why I think Halime and Gülbahar are very toxic mothers and I stand by these opinions.

I know the ask was about who is the best mother in the franchise, but I want to mention, for the second time, the worst mother in the franchise, is Turhan. Oh god, Turhan. She is the worst mother both character-wise and writing-wise - nor have we seen her show any affection for Mehmed at all, nor have we had that much time to see it, either. She is a one-dimensional thematic symbol, nearly devoid of vulnerability or humanity, and (even though that fits thematically, except for her relationship with her son) that also includes her son.

#magnificent century #muhteşem yüzyıl #muhtesem yuzyil #ask #stuffandthangs