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#i have so many opinions about how some shippers disregard the importance of platonic relationships without even REALIZING it
gracieryder · 3 years
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I feel like there’s a segment of this fandom that has a fundamental misunderstanding of love. It makes me sad tbh.
There are a lot of calls for Buck and Eddie to become canon and a lot of accusations and hate being thrown at the creators and actors when anything seems to threaten that. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with hoping a ship becomes canon. There are ways they could do it with these two that could work. Because of the way society functions, many people assume they’re straight, and they don’t realize they can be anything other than straight until it hits them in the face. I’ve literally been there. I never considered that I could have feelings for a woman until I already had them. That led to a lot of re-evaluating myself as a person. And I was in my early-20′s before it happened. So, I understand that peoples’ awareness and understanding of their own sexual and romantic orientation evolves over time and how that could be explored here.
But they don’t have to be canon.
Their relationship isn’t missing anything just because it currently lacks sex and/or romance.
This idea that the creators of the show are shying away from the possibility because they’re in any way anti-LGBTQ or that’s it’s queerbaiting or whatever is kind of ridiculous. Both 9-1-1 and 9-1-1: Lone Star are bursting with representation, and it’s a disservice to those canonically LGBTQ characters and the show itself to act like you’re being robbed just because you ship two characters whose relationship began and remains platonic.
It’s disturbing to me that a platonic relationship is seen as somehow lesser than a romantic one. Or less important. It makes me wonder how old a lot of you are and if you have friends with kids. Because I’m almost thirty, and I have plenty.
I take those kids out to restaurants and movies. Their pictures are on my fridge. I’ve shared beds with those friends and other friends from all over the LGBTQ spectrum. And we’re just friends. We have a deep fundamental trust that allows for all of this, but that doesn’t mean our relationship is anything other than platonic. I took an entire damn beach trip with a female friend of mine and two of her kids. Just us. Had a blast! Guess what? We’re still just friends. There was never any question of there being something else.
And guess what else? We have running jokes about it. I have multiple friends I’ve joked about marriage with and spending our lives together. They’re jokes. We’re comfortable enough in ourselves and in our friendship to be able to joke like that.
On top of that, people in healthy romantic relationships are able to maintain and continue to have deep and lasting platonic relationships with other people. Eddie and Ana could get married tomorrow, and Buck would remain just as important to both he and Christopher as he’s always been. There would still be things that he’d go to Buck about before Ana. Falling in love with Ana says nothing about his relationship with Buck. They’re entirely separate. And if Ana is as awesome a person as she seems like she is, she would be the type of partner that would understand and support that friendship.
Buck and Eddie’s relationship does not gain value by adding in romance or sex. It would just change the type of love that already exists.
So, by all means, ship it. Explore it. Have fun with the Easter Eggs. Write fic. Hope for a canon ending. Joke about it. Be a clown. God knows I’m one too. And it’s fun as FUCK.
But stop devaluing platonic relationships by implying that there is something inherently superior about a romantic and/or sexual one.
Because there’s not.
And if what we get is deep solid representation of a male friendship of this strength and caliber? That’s a fucking win.
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yaboylevi · 6 years
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I'm sorry I'm answering like this, but I don't want to get into the ship tag with my non-shippy opinions (please censor the name of the ship in the ask, next time). Also, this answer CONTAINS SPOILERS.
So, first of all, I think every group of shippers is guilty of thinking/hoping, with different degrees of intensity, that their ship will be canon in the future (or is/was canon, it depends). That's not something inherently bad, because it just means we really, really love our ships and we just see how their canon platonic relationship could evolve into something different, something romantic, because their personalities just click the right way in our opinion. Honestly, I think every ship has a chance of becoming canon, however their fates are ultimately in the hands of the original creators and only they can decide which relationship to change into a romantic one. EM shippers may feel more assured about it because, well, it's pretty common for the main protagonist to end up with the main heroine (although it's also common for her to end up with the protagonist's best friend).
Isayama's only implied couple was an f/f ship, though, and that's pretty uncommon. But anyway, honestly speaking, I don't see Shingeki ending with Eren (or even Mikasa) involved in a romantic relationship. Even yumi/hisu's arc wasn't about their love story, it was about the effect they had on each other, which led to mysteries being unveiled (so: it was plot-relevant). EM, imo, is not framed in a way that implies they will become a canon couple in the future; if anything, it's the opposite.
In regards to Eren, I think he is not interested in relationships, he has other things to focus on. Or maybe he is just super oblivious. He never seemed even aware of other people's romantic feelings, while Mikasa (and to a certain degree everyone else) was keenly aware of them (Ymir's, Hitch's). But I also think Eren might be more interested in men than women. However, this is a matter of perspective and preferences (+ I'm thinking about a hilarious smartpass interview where he was asked about the female cadets in a suggestive way and he just went "???? what about them??").
As far as Mikasa's feelings go, in my opinion, they are something different from purely romantic ones. I think she is just so grateful to Eren, she'd do anything for him. As a teen, I think it's almost obvious she might feel like she's fallen in love with the guy who saved her. Heck, she would have been sold as a prostitute to a brothel or, worse, to a noble as a sex slave. Eren gave her a reason to fight, and saved her life. When she thought Eren was dead, Mikasa decided to keep on living in order to remember him. That's how strong her feelings are. But I don't think they are exclusively romantic. They're so much more, more complex, deeper, stronger. For example, if he ended up with someone else, she wouldn't hold a grudge, she would be happy as long as Eren is happy. I think now that she's older, she understands this, but when she was 15, she was jealous, or at times even completely blind to Eren's feelings (which weren't romantic). 
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This behavior was mainly used as comic relief, but it was there. Hence the "yandere girlfriend meme" Mikasa has become to some people.
The scene in chapter 50 is beautiful. In a moment of utter desperation, Eren hears Mikasa's words and realizes that he isn't a complete failure, he saved a little girl once. He can do it again, he just needs to...not stop fighting. And so he gets on his feet and fights. Was Mikasa about to kiss him? Probably. Eren didn't realize it or simply thought there was no need for Mikasa to confess her feelings as a result of her giving up, because he could still fight, he could still save her. And so he did. "I'll wrap you up in that scarf again and again. Forever," he says. In my opinion, it's not a declaration of love, but a declaration of his devotion to fight and protect and save Mikasa and his friends. Forever. No matter what. This is who Eren is, the pillar of his character. And in that moment, after having momentarily lost his motivation, he strengthened his resolve, his purpose in life again.
How did this moment change their relationship? I don't think it changed it severely. I think it was more gradual and this was just the pinnacle of Mikasa's romantic feelings and after this, she acknowledged that that's not what it was all about. She cares for Eren a great deal. She wants to see him happy, accomplished and safe. Who wouldn't? But she also realized, she cares deeply for many other people. Her crying desperately for Sasha (a friend not from her childhood) is the peak of this. She's way past the "Choose. Eren or Ymir?" phase. Her heart, once closed off because of trauma, has opened up again, and I can see how she can return to be that happy girl she once was, independently from Eren. I think this has been implied for a while now, since she's been put in the background during the Return to Shiganshina Arc, always a step behind Eren and Armin. 
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But this has always been the case, apparently. She didn't even know about Eren and Armin's promise/dream of the ocean. 
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While I understand this was a necessary set-up, seeing how things escalated/paralleled with Levi-Eren-Erwin-Armin, I also believe it was a sort of nudge into the right direction for her, like "Mikasa. You are your own person and you're not bound to what Eren does or say. Be free." 
(Although, this could change because I'm not sure what happened in Marley. It's possible her hand, in particular, was forced by Eren...and it seems her love for Eren has made her more miserable than anything else...but anyway, these are conclusions I'll draw once we know for sure what happened then.)
Mikasa has gone from not trusting Eren and constantly reminding him that he was "not enough" and that he needed her (a behavior that superficially irritated him but in fact affected him a lot, imo, maybe because there was a bit of truth there)... 
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...to respecting his personal space and opinions, and trusting in his abilities. And she tells him exactly that, which is super important. This panel below makes me tear up a bit, if I'm honest.
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Mikasa went from being so self-centered about her role in Eren's life to the point that she unintentionally ridiculed him in front of everyone...
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...to accepting that Eren's life is independent from hers, and leave him to his own ridiculous shenanigans with Jean.
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That's also why I don't like when people disregard Mikasa's initial flaws. Because it cheapens her development and makes it look like she never had one. She's far from a static character. Her character development is just more subtle and stretched throughout the whole manga, it's not condensed in just a bunch of chapters (like Historia's, for example). I understand people want her to be perfect from the start because they love her, but...then they say she never gets development. Not acknowledging flaws is just counterproductive. 
I really didn't like their relationship at the beginning of the story, it was frustrating because they were both so stubborn...but as both Mikasa and Eren changed, I've grown really fond of it. I don't see it in a romantic light but I still appreciate it. Of course, there's nothing wrong in seeing it as romantic or wishing in a future romantic development, as long as Mikasa is acknowledged as her own person and not Eren's accessory. 
I'm admittedly not very knowledgeable about the EM fandom, and I often see comments such as "Mikasa needs to have Eren's babies" or (serious) jokes like "if you take Eren away from Mikasa, she's nothing", which I strongly disagree with, but I'm sure a lot of shippers don't see it like that. Unfortunately, haters and shippers with bad opinions are also the loudest but they certainly don't represent the true nature of the ship. Chapter 50 felt like the turning point to a better balance between EM, and a main point in Mikasa's development.
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Jon Targaryen Confirmed // Personal feelings on R x E "annulment" situation
To be completely fair, this post will touch base on topic of “shipping” however, the overall main topic of this discussion is about the overall theme of Human Complexity. Just to make the fandom aware and stfu x)
I have a lot of feelings for the recent reveal of the new episode of Game of Thrones. On the one hand, I’m so fucking overjoyed that Jon is not a bastard Targaryen but in fact a true born–like what he has always wished for. On the other hand, I’m am somewhat disappointed of the show’s handling of the reveal.
I mean if you couldn’t already tell, I’m literally the biggest R x L shipper and I will always stan them no matter what. However, as a hardcore Song of Ice and Fire book reader, I am kinda disappointed on how the show runners decided to handle the whole R x L x E complexity and storyline. Don’t get me wrong, I really do wish and speculate that R x L did secretly get married and I hope we get this canon in TWOW. However, what I dislike about the show’s handling of this situation is the immediate disposal of Elia Martell. Let’s get this right: I don’t ship R x E. I don’t ship two people who weren’t in love with each other. However no one can deny, that Elia Martell was not that important. Real talk, she was in fact just as important because without her, there would be no complexity in the whole R + L = J storyline.
One of the major things that the general audience of Game of Thrones frequently forget, is the main theme of human complexity. Book readers already understand this because GRRM has frequently and vocally stated that there is no point in writing a story if it’s characters are not in conflict with itself. Whenever I go onto the R X L tag on Tumblr, I always find myself baffled because I see “ship-wars” everywhere. Especially in a big loving fandom like GOT, it amazes me that one plotline can split us. So many of you guys, whoever you ship, do not understand the main theme of GOT//ASOIAF. All you care about is calling Rhaegar an ass, or Elia deserving better or Lyanna being a hypocrite; just because it threatens your ships. Which is highly unfair because it disregards everything that the book series is for and it erases the complexity of these characters. Which is what the show has done. It has simplified the whole complexity of the R x L x E storyline and erases the complexity of it’s characters, while making a fan fiction out of it.
In the books it is stated over and over again that Elia Martell and Rhaegar Targaryen were not in love with each other. They did love each other, however it was only platonically. They were very close companions. Nevertheless, in the book the World of Ice and Fire, it says that despite not being in love with Rhaegar, Elia was still happy. Their relationship was platonic as R had married her out of duty. Though he also loved her enough that put a strain on him and his father, for the Mad King did not like Elia and made racial remarks to her. Though this fact is only one part of the whole R x L x E complexity. I am and always will be a firm believer that R & L were in love. Though I will always admit that Elia played a part in their story too.
Which is why I’m pissed that the show decided to go with an “annulment” of Rhaegar and Elia to further simplify this storyline. Historically and logically in a Song of Ice and Fire, annulments did not fucking exist. It did not exist in this story and story wise, it doesn’t make fucking sense for Rhaegar to split with Elia in order to make Jon legitimate. I’m sure that GRRM would make Jon a legitimate Targaryen only because it fits so well with the story; and that if he were a bastard Stark and a bastard Targaryen, there honestly would be no point in the story, and it makes the whole R x L x E storyline less complex. Grrm is all about story and character complexity, which is why an annulment doesn’t make sense. It lessens the complexity of these characters, and it makes me love R x L even less.
The reason why I stan and love R x L so much is because of how complex they are. I love them so much because we barely know anything about them except for the stories that all these unreliable narrators tell us. They are ambiguous, intriguing, and mysterious. In the story, an annulment doesn’t exist because the faith of the 7 is a recognized religion and the only way for one to be recognized as “split” would be if your spouse had died. Or if it was unconsummated. Technically. The whole complexity of this marriage is due to in fact that Rhaegar was married Elia as he could also have been married to Lyanna. For this to work, it would have been a polygamous marriage.
This is where we get into speculation territory, so these are my opinions only. I ask that we have a respectable discussion underneath this post:
I really want to believe that R x L were married. And ever since the end of a Dance of Dragons, I have been shipping Rhaegar and Lyanna. That was years ago though, before the whole general audience was aware of this whole R+L=J theory. Tbh, ever since the whole reveal became semi-confirmed I’ve been annoyed because everyone jumped to conclusions about all these characters and it erased everything unique about them. I want to believe that R & L did in fact get married, however R was married before to Elia. This creates a contraction to the theory but it also makes everything more complex. Which is why I disagree on the whole annulment fan fiction thing going on. It lessens everything about the story. If it was canon in the books, I would perhaps be a bit more accepting, but it hasn’t happened yet. And I doubt an annulment will happen.
Elia is seen to be as kind, and most importantly, smart. She wasn't just a "delicate flower." She was Dornish. she was a viper. She was intelligent and politically smart too. What people seem to forget is that Elia was in fact also aware of the Prince that was Promised prophecy. It is part of the reasons why she and Rhaegar married. And she understood that. That’s why she attempted to give him 3 children, but only succeeded with two. She could not give a third because it could’ve killed her. She too, along with Rhaegar attempted to fulfill this prophecy. But she couldn’t help fulfill a part of it. I don’t want to go much into detail of my speculations, in fear of causing another fandom war here, but Elia was smart. She was good, and she was gentle. And kind. And witty. And clever. She could have been cunning too if she tried. And there would be no way in hell that she would allow Rhaegar to dispose and humiliate it her like the way he did, if by some wide speculation that she wasn’t in on it too. Which makes it even more complex. I’m also a firm believer that R x L did get married, however under the faith of the Old Gods. Elia and Rhaegar married under the faith of the 7. Which is also plausible in making Jon legitimate, considering the polygamous marriages ended with Baelor the Blessed. It also makes it again, even more complex.
Like I said, one of the main themes of ASOIAF is character and story complexity. Jamie Lannister is one of the easiest examples given of character complexity. Did Elia deserve better, yes she did. Though that doesn’t mean she wasn’t as innocent as everyone claims her to be. She is neither good nor is she bad. She’s complex. And possibly the most because we don’t know anything about her. That goes for Rhaegar too. People praise him, but also call him an ass. Without fully taking consideration of the theme of human complexity. He was neither bad, nor was he truly good as well. The same importantly goes for Lyanna. Everyone knows that Lyanna was strong, fierce and wilful. She didn’t want to marry Robert because she knew that he would never keep to one bed. “Love is sweet dearest Ned. But it cannot change a man’s nature.” which in turn if she married Rhaegar, it would make her a hypocrite. Which is why it makes her character even more fucking complex. Unless by some chance, Elia for unknown reasons gave her regards and allowed Lyanna and Rhaegar to get married under the Old Gods. Either for love or to fulfill a prophecy, whatever.
The fact that we don’t know almost anything about these 3 characters leave them to be the 3 most complex and important main characters of the story. With Rhaegar being the most complex of the complex. Which is why I disagree with the annulment in the show. The fact that they chose to dispose Elia like that, to make things simpler, annoys me. Because without Elia, there would be no story. Rhaegar and Lyanna only make up half of the song of ice and fire story. Without Elia, it would not be complete. There would be no story, there would be no complexity. There would be no Jon Snow. Without Elia, what theme would the story have without her. There is an importance of Elia’s character, and the fact that even Elia fans wants to imagine this character as only sweet and innocent. It takes away from her character complexity. It takes away from the story complexity if you only imagine one character as one defining quality. Rhaegar is not innocent, nor is he evil. Lyanna is not as honorable, though she is not a coward. And Elia is not as innocent nor is she as favorable. She is complex. And that’s what I love about ASOIAF. Because of it’s theme of human complexity. And how it handles the story. Human complexity is heart of the story and it is the most important aspect of GOT.
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midgetmeredith · 7 years
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hi~ i read your about page where you said you might write up your reasons for not liking some ft ships like the whole debate with fraxus/miraxus & chendy/rowen but i couldn't find anything on it on your blog so i wondered what were your thoughts on that? i know there's fandom arguments about homophobia and crackshipping there too. i’m a multishipper but i really like your anti posts for naruto so i thought if you had any ft ones then they might be as good! �
Thank you! I’m really glad youthat like my Naruto posts. They’re pretty controversial, so nice commentsare always appreciated! 😅 Dude, I haven’t updatedby ‘about’ page in months, so doing that write-up completely passedmy mind… Thanks for being interested though! I guess I’ll spill:
Right, this might be quitecontroversial, so remember that any opinions expressed are just personalpreferences/reasons, okay? ⚠️
Like I said on my page, “Ihave a ‘manga > anime’ complex thanks to Studio Pierrot, so I only readFT. I wanted to avoid filler brainwashing, bias and only know of canon withthis series, after the mess with Naruto…” Therefore, I only really ship thatwhich I believe is substantially depicted/suggested in canon, and kind of havea bit of a pet peeve for anything outside of that.[ #1 justificationdisclaimer! ]
( 1 ) Mir/axus [ &Fraxus ]
So I was genuinelysurprised that Mir/axus was even a thing when I started searching the fandom’s tag, onceI’d caught up. I don’t know if they’ve been implied in filler, but theywere non-existent as a romantic pair in the manga. Honestly, theyhardly had any on-panel interaction… Like, the only evidence that came tomind for “logical” reasoning behind them was chapter 380’s cover art.(Maybe 329’s, at a push.) I even tried to find somesupposed “moments” under their Wikia page, but that listed was merelyscarce interaction with no romantic subtext; each synopsis was pretty muchgrasping for straws.
Here’s the thing –you mentioned the fandom discourse of “homophobic” accusations,right? Now, I too hate when shippers (in any fandom) cry that simplybecause others don’t ship a queer pairing. Like, c’mon. But, inthis case (and Wendy’s), I must admit that I do find it somewhatrelevant… Idk if this ship’s popularity (and, more so, acceptance alongsidethe actual semi-canon pairs) is because most have been influenced byexternal material or if it’s just because there’s no other member of the opposite sex that they’re paired with, but Fraxus was actually suggested in canon; emphaticallyfrom Freed’s point of view! Even on Laxus’ side, numerous chapters have moments that – here’s the thing – anyone would undeniablyaccept if either Freed or Laxus were female*.
[ My earlier volumes are enclosed in my bookcase, but I have 49 – 57 (Avatar – Alvarez) on-hand beside my bed, so I skimmed through to find (max.) five pages to evidence Laxus’ P.O.V. ‘cause this post will already be long enough. ]
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Chapter 416: “At this rate, I won’t be able to protect what’s important to me.”
It’s also worth noting that the official tankōbon/volume translation of this reads: “I’m not strong enough to protect the people I love yet.”
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Chapter 460.
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Chapter 462: “But that ain’t important now. All I’ve got on my mind… Is bringing the pain to the bastard who took out Freed and the others.”
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Chapter 472: “So you’re the one who did a number on Freed and the others?”
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Chapter 473: “Thanks a lot, Freed… There’s no wizard that could break your spells…”
*That’s the key consideration – that if you were to replace either’s gender for that of the opposite sex, it changes how these scenes are perceived. These panels, for example, are dismissed by those who oppose Fraxus, but they would be regarded as “ship moments” and a validation of Laxus’ affection if you were to replace Freed’s name in the dialogue and/or presence in the panels with a female (Mira)!
That’s why I can kind ofunderstand these claims, ’cause the existence and general fandomacceptance of these ships is very heteronormative in that respect (i.e.ignoring present queer pairings for heterosexual ‘crack-ships’) which makes it kind of discriminatory; reminiscent of homophobia perhaps. Although, I agree that term is a little extreme, as it doesn’t seem intentionally prejudiced. And whilst Freed is emphatically portrayed as queer, Laxus’ sexualityis a little more implicit, yet he is assumed straight by default… It’sironic/hypocritical because the majority of ships across all fandoms are typically founded upon onecharacter’s feelings, whilst neither Mira nor Laxus have shown said romanticinterest in each-other.
( 2 ) Ro/Wen [ &Chendy ]
Again, I hate Ro/Wen dueto a similar reasoning. Finding out that they even existed as a ship wasbaffling, tbh! I mean, at least Mir/axus had the cover as some rationale,but Ro/Wen is based solely on them being the same age… Talk aboutheteronormative? Also, technically, that’s an incorrect claim, due to the sevenyear time-skip in which she remained frozen. Like, she’s actually thesame age as Sting & Rogue. But you don’t find her forced with them. Why,because they’re older and that’s frowned upon? You know, despite the samepremise applying to Ro/Wen; since Romeo was half Wendy’s age when she wasintroduced (6 & 12).
The ship can’t even besupported with evidence, since they had no significant canoninteraction until the Alvarez Arc. Their only other contact was in an omake.Yet their age difference is evident in both; dismissing any reach atromantic subtext. In the omake, Romeo refers to Wendy as “nee[-chan]”.Similarly, she is presented comforting him like a child in their limited Alvarez panels, with him lookingup to her as that same sister figure. I have seen some of these shippers disregard Chendy asbeing “platonic”, when Romeo and Wendy’s dynamic isactually – canonically and strictly – such.
Chendy, however, do have asubstantial, visibly and literally present, mutual bond. They have extensive,plentiful interaction, as well as actually present romanticsubtext… I know that it may be difficult for (I guess) anyone outside of theLGBT+ community or a truly ‘open’ one to understand, due to ourheteronormative society – as Chendy are often disregarded as “justfriends” (🙄) – but many of theirmoments transcend platonic affection and bear intense likeness to theother romantic pairs’ depictions. For example, they are also featuredalongside the semi-canon couples in art-work, like Mashima’s couple sketches onTwitter.
Not to mention thatfriendship is the foundation of any healthy, romantic relationship! Of coursethey’re going to be best friends before engaging in such, particularly in thecase of same-sex pairs. Yet no-one uses this dialogue (of labellingeach-other as “friends”) against NaLu, despite them stating the otheras that same description on numerous occasions. But despite the justification mentioned above,Chendy are still dismissed. Again, if either were the male, it would be a completely different situation… I mean, since people shipcharacters based solely on covers and all – chapter 421’s cover (amongothers)?
Summary:
Obviously there’s nothingwrong with crack-shipping! And, no, not liking a queer pair [more than astraight one] doesn’t make you “homophobic”. But – in the case ofFraxus 🆚 Mir/axus& Chendy 🆚 Ro/Wen –I think that there is something kind of messed up with arrogantly defying acharacter’s canon depicted/suggested sexuality and/or romantic interest(s).There is something somewhat discriminatory about disregarding theirother prevalent, significant and actually developed bonds, to the extent that someone’sheteronormativity is so severe that they substitute a same-sex character foran irrelevant one of the opposite sex, who does not even have decentinteraction with the character in question; fabricated entirely from theridiculous, inaccurate [R/W] rationale of them being “the same age” or merelysharing a chapter cover.
That sounds much harsherthan I intended, I’m so sorry! Btw, I don’t blame shippers –everyone is (obviously) allowed to ship what they want! What’s stated above issimply why I’m against Mir/axus and Ro/Wen, especially as an avidsupporter of the LGBTQ+ community, a bisexual myself and a university scholar who has studied/written about this field.
[ I’ve updated by ‘about’ page now too, btw! ]
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