#i like a lot of it but god the racism and the pro shippers | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

timemachineyeah · 3 years

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Oh gosh some viral posts have given me some new followers huh.

Okay; time to weed folks out. For both of our sakes. Here we go.

I think labels like “anti” “pro-shipper” and “anti anti” are bad at their jobs, BUT: What Is Private And Fictional Is Your Business. I think a lot of “anti” stuff boils down to 1980s level moral panic, and it’s actually more likely to perpetuate the harms it’s attempting to protect against. Draw what you like. Write what you like. Tag appropriately.

I use the word queer. For myself and also for the queer community.

I’m incredibly inclusionist. Ace and aro people are queer, even cis het ones, if they wanna be. Everyone is invited to the queer party assuming they won’t be assholes to the other guests.

TERFs can fuck off.

I think voting is good, actually, and using math and strategy to optimize your outcome from voting makes sense. I think the system is bad and needs to be overhauled, but in the meantime you can vote for a center-right coward like Biden and still point out what a fuckup he is. The two are not mutually exclusive.

God what else has made people mad at me on here before. Um. Fat liberation and justice are real social causes and anti-fatness/fatphobia is an axis of oppression as material and pressing as ableism, racism, homophobia, etc. Diet culture is real and also bad.

The patriarchy is real. But men are not the patriarchy, and there are lovely men out there, and men actually can be hurt by being all lumped together and vilified as a whole. (Even if “not all men” is still not usually in good faith).

Um. When we talk about “cancel culture” we are conflating at least two different phenomena and one of those is sensitive millionaires not liking facing minor social consequences for their actions and the other one involves leveraging a vulnerable community against itself in a puritanical and often strategic and malicious way that ultimately hurts both the community and individuals more than it helps.

What else. What other controversial takes can I give here so folks can unfollow.

Uhhhhhhhhmmmmm.

Oh! I don’t blame soldiers for being in the military, especially those that joined young, and think it’s fair to consider them victims of war even if they were on the colonizing/imperialist/evil side.

I’m an atheist! And while I don’t malign religion as a whole, I am very suspicious of many religions and religious traditions. I use the word cult to describe high demand religions/groups when I think it’s appropriate, even if others disagree, and examine many non-religious groups and ideological communities from the lens of cult dynamics and research. I also will absolutely criticize certain beliefs or lightheartedly make fun of them. I specifically think astrology is very silly and funny, but usually (not always!) harmless. And I’m ex-Mormon, so I go after mormonism hard.

Uh. Uh. Uh. Anything else. Anything else that has made people on this site mad at me. So you can unfollow now.

Idk. If I think of anything I’ll let you know.

#timemachine wuz here

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tired-fandom-ndn · 2 years

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Ughhhh, big mood about antis parroting information. It's gotten to a point where I feel like people are trying to use allyship as a cudgel. It's like "as a member of [insert minority group here], if you don't support my claim that this piece of media or this creator is problematic, then you're not a real ally and you're sexist/homophobic/transphobic/racist." I think antis go around condemning media and smearing creators partly so their friends won't turn around and call them a bigot for daring to say "maybe you're wrong actually and this person doesn't deserve to be harassed"

God, I see that all the time tbh. It's really part of this environment of "never question what a marginalized person says or else you're a bigot" and that sounds. . . okay. . . . . . in theory but in practice, it's really just an absolute mess of individuals being treated as authorities on community issues. I've seen it a lot in Native communities especially, and in how many of those individuals will weaponize that against people in their own communities for disagreeing with them. "Oh, you like something problematic? Then I officially give all my (mostly white) followers permission to harass you and accuse you of being a pretendian :)"

I've been friends with antis long enough and been in anti spaces enough to know that it's just a constant balancing act. You accuse other people of being bigots or abusers or predators because if you don't, then someone will accuse you. You choose everything you say so carefully because the slightest stumble will mean losing literally all of your friends. Any questioning or disagreement, no matter how well-intentioned or calm or whatever, marks you as The Enemy™. And god help you if there's another anti in your marginalized group who disagrees with you because that's when all hell breaks loose.

This is why I encourage people so strongly to listen to different perspectives on topics, NEVER put individuals on a pedestal or treat them like an authority on everything, and use all the information they can to come to their own conclusions.

(This is also an issue with pro-shippers though, just to be clear. It's especially bad with white pro-shippers latching onto people of color who agree with them that something isn't racist, and then using those individuals as a token in any discussions of racism to shut down someone else.)

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dragynkeep · 2 years

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I just wanna say i appreciate you guys and how you've given me a more positive association with proshipping that doesn't negate critical analysis. I got caught in the middle of this big proship war that ended up with my dms getting spammed with a bunch of really triggering shit for me so its a crowd I'm wary of, but I really appreciate you two and your open mindedness to a lot of different things even where opinions diverge.

oh god that sounds like a nightmare, i'm so sorry & i hope you're doing better now ❤ there's definitely bad eggs in the pro ship community that really aren't observing the "anti harassment" part of being pro ship which is just like, ridiculous. it definitely reminds me of some times when my moots had been harassed by other pro shippers just for pointing out the ableism & racism in the online space for these people.

a difference of opinion is always encouraged — non bigoted ones anyways wheeze — like, people should be allowed to disagree on things rip. except for luke, if he disagrees with me i kill him / j

#pro ship #pro fic #ais.txt #answered #q

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soviet-whale · 3 years

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My Aaron Hcs

i was shocked and disturbed to realize that i have not yet shared my aaron hc’s so here ya go (this is pretty lighthearted but beware of themes of trauma and abuse similar to canon):

he doesn’t drink

when he got sober he got completely sober and now he doesn’t drink at all—there’s plenty of virgin drinks for him on Eden’s nights

he does, however, drink coffee pretty regularly

purely black, and whenever someone calls him on it he replies, “what can i say. i’m a masochist.”

he’s a beanie guy

perfect for pulling down over his face when he wants to lay low, covers his ears, covers his beadhead, goes well with any outfit

he wears them all the time

he definitely skateboards

and he’s really good at it?? no one knows when he had time to learn but he can skate like a pro

he’s incredibly intelligent both in an academic sense and a street-smart sense

he can do college level calculus and also replace the muffler on his car without any sort of manual/instructions

he has one mechanical pencil that he’s used since the fifth grade

he just keeps replacing the lead and erasers

he has a lot of internalized homophobia and racism because of how he was raised but when nicky brings this to his attention he honest to god tries to get better

he reads a lot of inclusive media

obviously he’s not perfect but i think he works really hard, especially after graduation and a few years of therapy when he’s in a better head space

he actually really enjoys testing his own ideals and making himself think

which means he loves philosophy

he doesn’t take any classes on it but he has five philosophy textbooks and is constantly checking out books and biographies on philosophers from the library

he likes to go to flea markets on saturday mornings

he’ll find expensive pieces of furniture and haggle the price down by like 50% before proclaiming that he’s not looking to buy anyway

he never leaves with anything other than like a trinket for katelyn

he definitely loves podcasts

but not pretentious podcasts

he listens to humorous, satirical, story-telling, and entertainment podcasts

he listens to *insert your favorite light-hearted podcast* alllllll the time

but he listens to them really stoically, especially in public

idk he just doesn’t really listen to music but he also doesn’t enjoy being alone with his thoughts or thinking too hard when it comes to entertainment so he just pops in his earbuds and listens to strangers crack jokes for an hour

he actually really enjoys hanging out with kevin

they have the same sense of dry humour

they also treat each other like normal people

everyone else sees kevin as an exy-loving freak and aaron as an apathetic asshole and the foxes handle them with cautious pity because of their pasts

but together they just kinda vibe and they allow the other to exist outside of the box everyone else keeps them in

i’m sure that makes no sense lol but kevin and aaron vibe!! and while i am not personally a kevaaron shipper i understand the compatibility

and of course, aaron loves katelyn

a lot

like, he never ever trusted women (or anyone really) because of his mother but the moment he met katelyn he knew he wanted to spend his whole life with her

he feels safe and understood by her and he does his best to make her feel safe and understood

he’s a good guy, and he exists outside of the “tiny homophobic asshole” box we tend to put him in

#aaron minyard #aftg #aftg fic #aftg headcanon #andreil #andrew minyard #twinyards #kevaaron #neil josten #kevin day #nicky hemmick #dan wilds #renee walker #allison reynolds #matt boyd

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goosegoblin · 3 years

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I'm genuinely really confused. What is an anti and an anti-anti??????

can, open, worms, everywhere-

I will try my best but I’m struggling to not strawman, so I do recommend doing your own research etc to make sure I’m not misrepresenting. Tucked under a read more because it’s long and may cause brain rot. if any of y’all fuckin @ me with your personal opinions on why this post means i’m going directly to super predator hell or something, you just get winnie the pooh with teeth. don’t say i didn’t warn you

(click here to view full post if you’re on my theme and the post seems to end here)

Anti, short for ‘anti-shipper’, refers to people who believe that what a person ships, writes, creates art of or consumes content about directly relates to their moral opinions and attitude, and should be judged accordingly. The main three topics I see them bring up and challenge are incest, paedophillia and abuse. They believe that fiction featuring these is problematic as it can lead to the normalisation of damaging and abusive behaviour. They are often concerned about the potential for minors to access this content.

I went digging to try and find some examples to avoid putting words in people’s mouths etc. Here’s a couple:

If you’re writing abuse/rape/racism/pedophilia AND ROMANTICIZING it INSTEAD OF CONDEMNING it, then maybe try to re-evaluate why you feel like other people’s source of pain and trauma excites and titillates you enough to be enthusiastically dismissive about the issues people are raising, and why other people’s bad experience should simply be relegated to wank material status for you.

another:

I think aging up to suit underage ships isn't okay (for example, MCU Peter Parker/Tony Stark), because that's you seeing chemistry between an adult and a child and thinking they'd be Hot Couple even though their dynamic is strongly suggestive of a familial bond.

(the next is on the topic of Call Me By Your Name)

As to the grown ass adults getting off to a 24 year old man going after a 17 year old boy AKA a teen that's high school aged, if you REALLY don't see anything wrong with enjoying a 24 year old preying on a 17 year old- fictional or real- then that just shows how desensitized you've become to it, and as much as you might want to claim it's a normal fandom thing, it's simply not psychologically healthy or normal to get off to a boy being sexualized by an adult.

So that’s their side of things!

Pro-shippers- or anti antis- by comparison, believe that if something is correctly tagged, warned and labelled, it has a right to exist, and a person should not be harassed for creating it/ engaging with it etc. There are lots of other points made here- about censorship, coping mechanisms for trauma, personal responsibility and autonomy, the nature of fiction as a safe place to explore etc- but honestly, it does kind of boil down to.... ‘none of this is real, and you are fully able to choose not to look at it’.

One main issue that comes up is that that, quite often, ‘antis’ feel rather intensely about their stance. I’ve seen a huge amount of hate mail, death threats, hate messages etc aimed at people creating ‘problematic’ material. Additionally, there’s like... a definition creep? Over time? So ‘paedophillic content’ can easily refer to like... high school AUs that include sex, or relationships where an age gap is present. And there’s a lot of guilt by association, so if you follow someone who follows someone who reblogs Thorki, You Are Also Problematic.

There’s also a tendency to focus on individuals rather than bigger or more mainstream stuff. Game of Thrones is infamously full of rape, incest, paedophillia, torture etc, but it doesn’t get anywhere near the level of attention and grief that Reylo shippers seem to. I can’t believe I just wrote a sentence about Reylo shippers in the year 2021. Good fucking God.

Anecdote: I actually left the Pathologic fandom on Twitter after seeing somebody attacked and isolated for saying “I don’t like or write incest or age gap stuff, but if people want to write it I won’t attack them for it”. This got quickly translated into ‘[username] is a paedophile’, and then it was all ‘if you follow [username] block me now, you pedo apologist’. Like... see how earlier today I got called a paedophile for reblogging this post? That was some SPEED OF LIGHT stuff, folks. That’s seemingly a person who has followed me for years and instantly decided I’m One Of The Bad People now.

so like, I guess I fall into the category of ‘anti anti’, because my take remains ‘you have the right to enjoy whatever content you want, and I have the right to judge you for it’ lmao

but if I ever wade deep enough into the mess of teenagers vs thirty-something year old ‘fandom moms’ that these debates tend to become to self-identify, I will launch myself immediately into the sun, so-

#wank for ts #i'll take 'posts that will get me cancelled' for $500 #Anonymous #honk response

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tiny-space-robot · 3 years

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Okay so Fire Emblem anon here!! Here's a Kinda Super Long Bc I Got Carried Away description of a few Fire Emblem games, plus some characters that seem like they hit tropes you like!

The good news is that there's not a super huge overarching timeline, there's several smaller timelines that are seperate from one another except for the crossover games. I'm gonna go with describing the newer ones that you're most likely to be able to get your hands on and play; a lot of people complain that they lean into some anime-tropey stuff and are too easy, but tbh, that's a perk just as often as it isn't. Basically, it's Game of Thrones, but rated T and with more cute girls and old men who are friendly instead of creepy.

Tbh, it's a turn-based strategy game with visual novel elements for characterization, if strategy games aren't your thing and you're just interested in the characters, watching the support conversations on Youtube might be more your thing. All the characterization, none of the resetting the same goshdang level thirty times. Anyways, description of the games in passing, including a brief description of the plot concept, pros and cons, trigger warnings, and some characters you might be interested in if you're just looking up characters.

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Awakening: for the 3DS. Follows Robin, an amnesiac mage, after they're found in a field by a band of knights called the Shepherds. Involves the undead, a twink in a mask, timey-wimey shenangians, and the usual cast of oddballs you'd expect from a Fire Emblem game.

Pros of Awakening: customizable player character, intro of Casual mode (turns off permadeath) and the Pair Up system, which lets you put characters together for shipping reasons strategy and stat boosts. Also doubles as a shipping simulator, since you can pair off characters and meet their later in the game due to said timey-wimey shenangians.

Cons of Awakening: there are some....very concerning combos of names/skin tones/plot relevance for certain characters, so go in with a warning about implicit racism. Also if you like strategy games, this game is relatively easy to break and make "too easy," but tbh that's what Lunatic Mode (the Ultra Unfair Hard Mode) is for.

Trigger warnings across the main plot: underhanded politics, attempted assassinations, martyrdom, an optional character is implied to stalk Robin but idk how to tag that, identity crises, conflicts within a family, character who isn't you looks like you, backstory child abuse, an optional character is a bad portrayal of DID if you squint?

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Fates: is actually a group name for two games set in the same universe, and a DLC bonus story: Birthright, Conquest, and Revelations. All for the 3DS. All three games star Corrin, a pacifist raised in seclusion in the kingdom of Nohr. Each game reflects a different path Corrin can take in navigating the war between the nations of Nohr and Hoshido: Birthright has them stand with Hoshido, Conquest with Nohr, and Revelations has them strike out (nearly) alone. Each path has a completely different storyline, cast of characters, and difficulty curve.

Pros of Fates: honestly, the characters here cater the most to the avid pro-shipper and multi-shipper. I just love this cast. Both Nohr and Hoshido have four members of the royal family you can play and get to know, each of those royal family members has two retainers who are various levels of dedicated and/or unhinged, and the cast just widens and widens. Also a character customization and shipping simulator point for the same reasons Awakening gets it. Also, canon fujoshi rights (there's a character with a skill called Daydream, which boosts her stats when two male characters are paired up near her. one of us, one of us). Also the first game with canon queer characters: both Rhajat and Niles are bi.

Cons of Fates: unfortunately, the writing is kinda rushed or badly translated in some places. Also *shakes IntSys* my lore! Give me more lore! Also, iirc, you could get both physical games in a bundle for a discount when they came out, but not anymore, so it's sorta like Pokemon with version exclusives. Which is less fun, since you can't directly trade characters. Also the fandom for this game is RIFE with discourse, which is kinda sad bc I just wanna talk my ships with ppl sjxhdjdn

Trigger warnings for Fates: child abuse might as well be Nohr's middle name, in-universe racism (since Hoshido is p obviously Japan-inspired, and a lot of Nohrians are rancid to Hoshidans), kidnapping, on-screen murder, lots of fighting your loved ones (on both main routes, you gotta fight the playable characters from the other side AAA), su-c-de, death of sibling(s) in certain routes, demonic-like possession, there's like six characters people can read as bad mental illness rep, Niles especially is discourse bait for being a kinky (yes that's canon) bi man of color but also he's awesome so die mad antis

*break for space*

Shadows of Valentia: for the 3DS. A remake of Gaiden, the second game in the series. Follows Alm, a farm boy from a small village in Zofia, and Celica, his childhood best friend. Zofia and the nation to its north, Rigel, are two nations ruled by the dragon gods Mila and Duma, respectively. Normally, they're in equilibrium, but Rigel is invading and Mila is missing, prompting Alm and Celica to independently investigate the problem.

Pros of SoV: the most like the old-school Fire Emblem games, but it also has the permadeath-off mode. also the first to be fully voice acted! The art style is gorgeous, and the plot was polished up from the old game--two characters names Berkut and Rinea were added, and they are PEAK OTP the diskhorse can die mad. Also the cast is pretty fun all around, from buddy squad and the older brother/dad figure they adopted along the way to "hello this is my gang of childhood friends, we're gonna kill a god" Also introduces Mila's Turnwheel, which lets you rewind your moves if you realize you goofed big time and screwed yourself over.

Cons of SoV: has the most references to other games, but you won't, like, be lost if you don't get them. You just might have a few interludes of "who tf is Camus/the White Wing Brigade/etc" but it's easy enough to look up on the wiki. Also tbh, the plot kinda drags in the middle, there's some filler battles to try and make it feel more realistic and it feels...weird. Also no custom character, you are Alm and Celica and you will Like It.

Trigger warnings for SoV: you know that thing where a girl character gets killed off for a guy character to angst over? the game starts with a fakeout version of that. also a character slowly goes mad over the course of the plot (but it's really well done imo?), there's some self-sacrifice stuff in there, classism is a major theme, possession/selling your soul™, there's a couple of levels where you're exploring tombs/prisons, I'm sure there's something else but I'm forgetting right now

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Three Houses: on the Switch. The newest game in the series, and the most polished imo? Stars Byleth, a wandering mercenary turned teacher at the Officer's Academy. The Academy, housed in Garreg Mach Monastery, teaches youths from across the land of Fodlan how to be warriors, commanders, and knights. Students are sorted into three houses based on their country of origin: the Black Eagles are from ghe Adrestian Empire, led by the heiress-apparent Edelgard; the Blue Lions are from the kingdom of Faerghus, led by prince Dimitri; and the Golden Deer are from the Leicester Alliance, led by Claude, grandson of the Duke. You choose one of these houses to lead, and then everything quickly goes sour.

Pros of Three Houses: It's such a rich experience! The music is incredible, there's so much lore, and you can wander around the Monastery and hang out with the students to your heart's content. Also, it's four storylines for the price of one, even if they're all relatively similar in the first half. It does a pretty solid job of weaving together its themes into a satisfying narrative that will make you consider everyone involved. Also we got our first bi main lord (Edelgard) and non-white main lord (Claude is mixed race) in one fell swoop! Also, given the setting, it's teacher/student ship heaven.

Cons of Three Houses: just gonna come right out and say it: one of the villainous factions in the game is pretty substantially tied up with some anti-semitic tropes. There's no way to ignore it, it's just bleh, and I'm not gonna send anyone in without that warning. Also, though there's some characters you can persuade to switch sides, or spare, there's no route where there's a happy ending for everyone. Also there are so many people who are fake deep about the themes of the game, so be ready for the worst takes imaginable about your faves. also super trigger heavy, see below.

Trigger warnings: MANY. Garreg Mach and the Church of Seiros are very reminiscent of catholic religious stuff, for anyone with religion triggers, blood in cutscenes, death of a parent, death of a sibling (different characters), major gaslighting vibes in some places, lots of people going unhinged, some white savior™ vibes in places, body horror, creepy ass weaponry, backstory genoc-de (mostly not related to the anti-semitism), blood magic (definitely related to the anti-semitism), in general it goes to a lot more effort than the other games to make you think about what's Actually going on, even if it doesn't always work.

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As for characters you'd like, if you just want to look some characters up, my recommendations based on what I understand about you include:

Awakening: Libra fits 'gnc man of the cloth' so well it's actually a conversation in game: "so what's a woman of the cloth doing here?" "...man, sir, man of the cloth." And Then He Never Gets Misgendered Again. Also Nowi's supports sometimes feel like a jab at antis-- she's a manakete, a person who can transform into a dragon. Manaketes also grow really slowly, as in "middle aged looking manaketes are like 1000 years old," so she's got major baby face and copes with being mistaken for a teenager by making jokes. Also Gregor, who she first appears with, is pretty fun--older mercenary with a thick accent who is like 80% here for a good time. Also Walhart, who's a villain but got some content added as DLC.

Fates: any interactions between Corrin, Leo, and/or Camilla are probably right up your alley--Camilla is obsessively protective over her siblings in a way that's Very Definitely Platonic™, and Leo also canonically has a crush on her in something that was cut in the English release. Also Gunther--once upon a time he was your classic knight in shining armor, now he's semi-retired, Corrin's personal guard, and covered in scars (and his voice is gorgeous too)

Echoes: my biased answer is to listen to every single line Ian Sinclair read for Berkut because he absolutely did NOT have to go that hard. My actual answer is to point you in the direction of the pegasus sisters Catria, Palla and Est, or maybe the older gentleman who's the head of the Priory, I forgot his name oops abbdbd. Also Clive is a devoted husband to one Mathilda, who looks just like an older version of his sister Clair 🤔

Three Houses: knowing you, you'd adore Hanneman--an older professor who's extremely passionate about his work, to the point where he tends to forget personal space and such. Also Seteth, like I mentioned before (join me in simping for him and his gorgeous pecs) and like, honestly, I know ppl make jokes about Alois but he's rlly good. Soft, awkward but he doesn't care, dad jokes everywhere. And also Mercedes, both because she's the biggest sweetheart imaginable and everyone should love her, but also bc she is just walking potential for the kinds of stuff you post on this blog. On one hand, she's the oldest student at the Academy and attached at the hip to one of the youngest, Annette (tho people act like they have a way bigger age gap then they actually do) and on the other hand, she has a long-lost half brother she can encounter (who I will not name for HUGE HUGE spoilers reasons) who she spends the rest of her life with in one of her endings. Heck, he has three possible endings total! Total!

Basically I brought the games up bc I'm used to being on the side of the fandom where everyone shoos anything uncomfortable under the rug, but there's so much material here that's being wasted I SWEAR

If you have any other questions I can send another anon? Your call! Thanks for hearing me out I love ur blog :3

OKAY!!! sorry for answering so late, but this ask was pretty much a BOOK (not that I´m complaining though! thank you so much! ;;u;;)

and from what I read here, I THINK if I´m going off on my first fire emblem adventure, I´ll try and pick up three houses if I get the chance! I have read your trigger warnings (thank you so much! ;u;) and I think I can take it! >:3

again though, I am really, really not a fan of anime and the anime artstyle in general (blergh! XP) so I´m not sure how I´ll cope with that in particular, but then again, an artstyle does not make a game! u3u

AND HANNEMAN SOUNDS LIKE A WINNER TO ME!! I looked him up and OOOF!!! he may not have NEARLY as many wrinkles as I´d like him to have, but the facial hair is definitely a step in the right direction! ;3c

NOW YOU GOT ME INTERESTED!!

LETS GO!!!!!!!!!!!!! (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

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anticallouts · 3 years

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Question. does your idea of being anti-callouts also include folks of different belief systems that would involve, say, a much narrower view of sexual morality, or are they fair game to be called out as homophobes and all that just because of their beliefs, even if they’ve never actually displayed any kind of discriminatory behavior? Or what about those who sided with or even remotely supported trump or are from MAGA groups? Are they outside the scope of your anti-callout mission too? Asking cuz imo it’s hypocritical to say you’re anti-callouts but then think its ok for these folks to be ostracized and bullied cuz “they need to be held accountable” for beliefs that you don’t agree with and more often than not, don’t fully understand what they believe or why. And I’m not talking about stuff they said decades ago, I’m talking about present day stuff.

First, I will direct you back to this post, specifically the ending paragraph:

One important thing to internalize is that ignorance doesn’t make you a bad person. This goes for judging your own actions as well as others’. It’s okay to constantly be learning and adapting your behavior based on new information. If you find out from discourse that you had been using hurtful language or promoting a hurtful idea, it doesn’t mean you were secretly a bad person all along. It just means you didn’t know. In an ideal world, we would all be patient and forgiving with people who weren’t acting in bad faith, but unfortunately this is Tumblr. Just try to do your best, and take breaks if you need them.

The key point here is ‘in bad faith’. This blog, and the general disagreement in fandom re: callout culture, usually stems from the idea that it is bad to hold people with taste in unpopular fictional ships to the same standard as unrepentant abusers, pedophiles, racists, and homophobes. The point is not that those categories of people aren’t in themselves problematic, just that shippers shouldn’t get tacked on to that list for liking anime boy 1 and anime boy 2, nor should ANYONE get tacked onto that list based on rumors or anon messages if there is actually no evidence of wrongdoing.

We can debate until the cows come home about what ‘counts’ as bigotry and the right way to deal with microaggressions, but for this post (and because you mentioned MAGA and homophobic Christianity) I’m going to assume you’re talking about standard, run-of-the-mill bigotry. The kind you can look at and easily understand exactly why it is hurtful.

Being against callout culture is not the same thing as being against all callouts, all the time, for any reason. (I did not name this blog, I inherited it. I am now considering a revised URL if that is the impression this one gives.)

I am never going to defend a homophobe. I am never going to defend a racist. If someone comes to me with a tweet from a homophobe’s twitter acct that says ‘God says all lesbians are abominations but I’m not homophobic tho it’s just what the Bible says’ I’m not going to assume they’re an infant who doesn’t understand logic or empathy or critical thinking. I’m gonna block them. If they’re famous, I’m gonna show my friends and my friends are also gonna block them and also possibly talk shit about them on Twitter because they’re bajillionares and it doesn’t matter.

(Except really I encourage people not to do this - not because it’s morally wrong, but because they can use their much larger platform to harass you if they feel like it. See John Boyega’s behavior towards the women who were hurt by his misogynistic language as an example.)

Now, on a smaller scale, if they’re just a regular old member of a fandom? If it turns out everyone blocks them because they won’t stop talking about how much they hate the gays and Jews and SJWs and the fandom is full of gays and Jews and SJWs who don’t want to listen to it, that’s not ostracization, that’s quality control. No one gets to complain that other people won’t listen to their opinions, and that’s not what this blog is advocating for.

I am extremely pro-block. I block people for ALL KINDS of things. I see a comment in the notes of a post I do not vibe with? Block. Don’t care if that user has never spoken to me in my life. I am the arbiter of my fandom experience, as is everyone else.

Furthermore, I want to address what seems to me to be the core of your complaint here:

“... even if they’ve never actually displayed any kind of discriminatory behavior?”

See, this is a bit logically inconsistent and it makes me wonder if this ask was not sent in good faith, but rather to try and catch me in a ‘gotcha, so much for the tolerant left’ type of way.

If someone is not displaying any kind of discriminatory behavior, then they fall under the ‘don’t make baseless callouts’ protection. There’s no evidence of any wrongdoing, no victim, no crime. Thinking gay people are horrible is, like, wrong, but as long as they keep that to themselves when engaging with others, fine. However, the fact that someone is being called out for open homophobia or racism means that... Hm... how do I put this... they kind of are displaying discriminatory behavior, my dude.

If they’re 12 years old and repeating what their racist dad said or homophobic pastor said, then yeah, don’t harass them. Don’t harass anyone, actually, but I am not Fandom God and I don’t control the whims or ways of the internet denizens so I can’t really do anything about that. Harassment doesn’t actually accomplish anything and is a waste of energy. Report them if they’re breaking the TOS and move on. (See my pro-block stance above for the acceptable alternative. Blocking! It’s like Herd Immunity, for fandoms.)

But everyone else in the fandom space has a right to warn each other ‘hey, there’s a 12 year old over there with no filter and they’re super racist, here’s their tweets.’

If they’re an adult and they’re doing that? As you said, present day stuff? It is completely fair game for their tweets or posts to be catalogued and shared as proof that they are a clear and present danger to other people in the fandom. Racists and homophobes have this nasty little habit of attempting to hurt people they hate, fandom needs ways to self-regulate and keep itself safe from actual harmful bigots.

There’s also a lot to be said about expecting vulnerable members of the community to do all the work educating people who are actively being malicious towards them in the hope that one comment will break through their willful ignorance and show them the light of human decency and teach them how to be good people and decent fans. If someone feels bad that other people don’t like them because of their homophobic beliefs, it’s not the fandom’s job to take them under wing and teach them why homophobia is wrong. None of us came out the womb knowing how to treat people; if the majority of us could figure it out by cultural osmosis, so can our racist homophobic strawman here. Either by being told directly, or by seeing that bigots are not welcome and making the single necessary logical leap that maybe it’s because homophobia/racism/etc hurts people and no one else likes being hurt.

So, to break it down:

Private racists: not posting anything racist, not harassing poc in the fandom, how would you ever know? Gross, but ultimately harmless. Can’t do anything about them, hopefully they see enough posts about why racism is bad to finally change their ways.

Past racists: said some dumb racist shit in the past, apologized, aren’t currently doing anything racist? Leave them alone. Be thankful. Hope that other people look to them as an example in learning and humility and growth.

Active racists: do not deserve your pity or protection. Learn to treat other people with respect or get off the internet. Shed no tears when they end up blocked by 90% of the fandom and anyone else with a brain. Their ignorance does not supersede everyone else’s right to feel safe and welcome in a community. Much like with private racists, I hope they learn (with a more direct lesson) that no one likes racists or wants to hang out with them and if they want friends they should learn to treat others as human beings.

#mod fox #racism #homophobia #callout culture #responses

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permian-tropos · 5 years

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For a while I thought your SW takes were good and I followed you, but you know what? You’re a fucking hypocrite. You say you don’t like R/ylo, and the ship is fucking disgusting, but you still lap up notes from them anyway. I recognize URLs. You won’t call yourself an anti because you think we’re what, bad for standing up to a shit ship and the racists who fucking ship it? It’s because you’re afraid of looking bad to them because they’re the only ones who give you attention. Fucking. Hypocrite.

Why are you so afraid of saying you’re an anti? We don’t stand for bad shit. We’re ANTI bad, demeaning, sexist tropes. We’re anti abuse and racism. And your SW takes aren’t bad! You actually see through the bullshit parts of the story. But for fuck’s sake you’re dripping with condescension all the time about what antis are like, like you’re too good for it, and I call bull. You’re afraid of losing the attention R/ylos give you if you actually stood up for something and called them on their shit.

Okay, I’m sorry. I got angry. But when you said that the anti side of fandom couldn’t be arsed to get into details I was pissed. You could do a lot on the anti side of fandom! Why do you act like attention from antis has to be avoided! You’re cool with fucking R/ylos reblogging your posts but you can’t stop ragging on us. It’s. Not. Bad. To. Be. An. Anti.

Usually I delete messages like these, I’ll make an exception because you apologized, so I can get some things absolutely clear.

*clears throat*

Anon, you have absolutely no right to speak to anyone like this (especially take a moment and consider whether you thought the fact that you followed me gave you some right to dictate what I should be allowed to say or do). You need to cut this shit out right now. Do not send messages swearing at people you’ve never met and accusing them of hypocrisy because of Star Wars fan wank. This isn’t the first time I’ve gotten an angry anon bitter about how I haven’t picked a side in this INCREDIBLY DIRE AND IMPORTANT WAR FOR MORAL JUSTICE, so I’m putting my foot DOWN VERY HARD. Your identity is painfully wrapped up in fictional characters if you’re this incensed that I’m not on your side.

Reasons why I’m not an “anti”:

1) This. This kind of disrespectful cultish moral abuse. Your community shames anyone who interacts with the human fucking beings who you’ve assigned the enemy. I will not participate in that, I will not enable it, I will not enjoy the benefits of it. I certainly won’t join up only to be harassed. The fact that I’m even slightly anti-adjacent has emboldened you to, well, do this. Imagine if I was in deep. I’ve seen what kind of nastiness antis spew on each other when someone dares to, say, explore reylo in a dark non-endgame context.

2) I don’t think it’s evil to ship reylo. I disagree with plenty of things reylo shippers have argued about the canon narrative. But no, it’s not wrong to romanticize dark violent ships, or swoon over villains, or fantasize about redemption arcs. I literally do all of those things. I’m a villain lover and a dark shipper and a redemption sucker. I actually just… don’t like Kylo Ren as compared to other characters with superficial similarities. Did you miss the part where my favorite ship is between two fascist dictators who fight to the death? You really shouldn’t be shocked by my attitude if you noticed anything I was posting positively about. I don’t want to be in an anti community because if the Aftermath Trilogy were popular, gallirae would be a ship with an antifandom. It’s an edgy mcdarkfuck hell trash. That’s my wheelhouse.

3) You are not anti abuse. This is fucking abuse, towards a real person, which is the kind of abuse that matters. You asshole.

4) “You could do a lot on the anti side of the fandom” god this feels like a villainous “join me and we could rule the galaxy together”

5) Yeah I’m cool with reylos reblogging my posts. Some of them are my fucking friends. And I don’t caaaaaare if people who ship something different from me happen to share my taste for something unrelated. “You only interact with them because they’re the only people who will interact with you” and you think, what, I should condemn myself to isolation? If they like my stuff that’s great! Also, I don’t need to convince them to stop shipping the ship, but if I make a sensible take I can spread certain forms of common sense in any community. If I’m not seen as a cruel, vindictive bully by the reylo community, and if I don’t shame people for having at worst a pulpy bodice-ripper romance story that makes them happy, I will have a little more authority in calling out problematic attitudes. Also I don’t want to be a cruel, vindictive bully. I want to be kind to people. You asshole.

6) Reylo isn’t a political stance. Liking any ship says fuck all about what kind of person you are. What is an awful, fundamentally reactionary political stance is dehumanizing people who have “deviant” aesthetic interests.

7) The anti community has been extremely bitter about TLJ, and as a result has been unable to talk about a canonically villainous Kylo Ren positively. The fact that you are anti is the problem! Yes, it’s bad to be an anti, bad for you and anything you want to enjoy. It’s absolutely poisonous to your brain to lash your sense of self to feelings of hatred, and hate of an online fan community no less. You can have the same tastes in fiction while being PRO-SOMETHING. That’s why I have a tag “villain Kylo”. I’m not anti Kylo Ren. I’m pro villain Kylo. It’s something I like. It’s something I enjoy thinking about.

8) You’re a fucking asshole. I’m flattered you hold me to such high regard that you’d be angry I’m not on your side. But here’s the thing. I am on your side. I think you’re being a terrible person right now, and I would forgive you if you made amends, because I don’t believe you’re unspeakably, unforgivably evil. I think you’re in a bad crowd, and you should take a long moment to think what your fandom habits have led you to. This is toxic as fuck.

9) Talk to me in private if you’re mature enough to apologize for real. I’m too damn nice for my own good. But don’t send me any more anon hate. I will delete it.

#asks #anon you done FUCKED up #I refuse to be treated like garbage

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capwilsons · 6 years

Text

@crazy-tomato replied to your post “and you know what's really weird about st*ny shippers is that they...”

*Shrug* I ship them based on on screen chemistry and they're actually canon in the comics (earth 3490). I love steve, i love tony, i love rhodey, i love bucky. I love pretty much every character in the mcu. I ship so many god damn things in this fandom and being an empath and someone who's been studying psychology for years, it's really fucking hard for me to hate a character because

because I know where they're coming from. (with the occasional Thaedus ross or redskull) But I still understand their motives despite me not agreeing with them. ANYWAYS I ship iron//husbands, sto/ny, stu/cky, pepp/eroni, winter/falcon. Theyre such unique pairings and personalites. I like the onscreen pairings too. St/eggy is a favourite. There are only like 2 on screen ships I don't like and it's because the forced romantic chemistry they have is awkward. I can go on for hours

(I honestly don't pay much attention to the fandom because even tho I love st/ony, I can say that portion of the fandom is awful. But hey my first mcu ship was frost/iron back in 2012) Idk my dude but the racist posts about Rhodey piss me off because iron/husbands are fucking adorable

okay holy shit this is a Lot. Also I’ve slightly edited your response to remove ship names because i do not want this ending up in anyones tag, because thats a shitty move. (The link is still there to the original post if anyone wants to verify that I didn’t alter the reply to change meaning or context to what this person said).

It’s really funny because i made sure to not tag that post with any pro or regular ship tags, and made sure to only use the anti tag. Moreover I was being prompted by an ask to give my opinion so I wasn’t even just shit posting for the hell of it. And you don’t follow me. Which means you, a st0ny fan, were trolling through the anti tag looking for an argument. Which... dude just don’t do that. People use that tag so that the people who enjoy the ship don’t have to see that content and can blacklist as needed. Honestly why troll the tag? It’s zero fun for anyone involved.

Additionally, lets go back to my few posts that got brought up during that NOTP game about st0ny. I repeatedly said that I didn’t disparage all st0ny fans for liking it, and that not all st0ny fans were putting out racist content, or had racist motivations. It’s literally right there in the post you replied to. I’m glad you admit that there is racism problems in fandom, but saying “oh but not me” isn’t really helpful to the conversation. I see that you’ve gone out of your way to find an anti post, have you gone out of your way to call fellow st0ny shippers out on their racism? Wouldn’t that be a better use of your time? You say you’ve seen racism in your corner of fandom, but have you done anything about it?

I also mentioned explicitly that I understood there was a lot more there in the comics in my post, and I was specifically talking about MCU. I said that in the MCU there was nothing there. And in my opinion, there isn’t. Most of their on screen time together is completely adversarial, and not in a pleasant way. It’s that kind of disagreement where if you were friends with both of them, you’d never invite them out at the same time. Thats my opinion on it, so just leave it. I wasn’t asking for an argument or to be convinced one way or another on that post.

Surprisingly, you can dislike fictional characters and still have empathy for people. You don’t need to be a multi shipper or like every fictional character in the book to be empathetic. And claiming you have empathy for that reason is.... sketchy. It also came off a bit like you were saying that I, as well as others who don’t like these characters, don’t have empathy, which is... not good.

People who dislike tony have their reasons, just as people who like tony have reasons for enjoying him as a character! Personally, I just don’t care about him. I don’t think he’s a villain or evil or whatever, but I don’t really like him either. He’s just, meh, to me. Thats why I block legit all of tony’s tags (pro, anti, and neutral). I don’t care about the discourse. Plus, being the child of an alcoholic, it’s just really uncomfortable seeing content about him sometimes, especially when it’s either completely woobifying alcoholism and pretending that alcoholism as a disease excuses shitty behaviour, or completely demonizing someone for having an addiction. As usual fandom can’t find a middle ground on that, and it’s really distressing as someone who has been emotionally abused by an alcoholic parent, but still loves them and understands that the person has an illness that they’ve since tried to seek help with.

TLDR: Why are you trolling through an anti tag when you clearly like the ship? That time could be far better spent doing literally anything else. Plus it’s just a dick move mate.

#crazy-tomato #replies #long post #dude just stay out of the fucking tag man #alcoholism tw #honestly if i see people woobifying alcoholism i block on sight #my massive anxiety issues are directly tied to my mothers alcohol abuse #and i didn't ask for that shit #she didn't ask for her disease either but that doesn't mean i didn't get fucking hurt in the process #and i still love her an empathize with her #but she still had to apologize to me and make amends for her wrongs #and even she acknowledges that she can't blame the alcohol for the shitty things shedid #just like if an alcoholic got drunk and crashed a car with someone in it killing them #they've still killed someone #anti stony #more like anti fans who can't stay out of anti tags #this is why i block so many people #hell i respect the people who stick to their corner of fandom and tag appropriately and let people be

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