#i literally don't even hate canon tim i just read his comics and was like there are more interesting characters

[celaenaeiln]

is the dickbabs romantic relationship always as bad as in Tom Taylor’s run or is it actually enjoyable in other runs? i want to read more of dick’s og nightwing run but ik dickbabs is a recurring thing and i strongly dislike what i’ve seen of it in modern comics (absolutely no offense to anyone who ships it!!)

also sort of related, but have dick and babs really been BFFs since grade school or is that new canon? i remember the initial new 52 run referencing him and babs as on and off but nothing about being childhood besties.

finally- what would you consider to be key dick grayson runs?

Surprisingly Dickbabs is pretty nice to read in other runs. I know this sounds weird coming from someone who hates Dickbabs as a ship but really it's only bad like 85% of the time and the majority of that is because of the Batgirl comics. Batgirl comics treat Dick like shit and it's a losing tossup whether he's treated well in Oracle related comics.

But to get to your point, Dickbabs in Nightwing (1996) was originally pretty good. Tom Taylor's run of Nightwing is the weird one because in every other run you have Dick + relationships whereas in Taylor's you have relationships + Dick. That being said, I highly, highly recommend reading the og one. At one point it does get toxic but Barbara leaves almost immediately after that and aside from that the ship was pretty nice for the most part.

Dick and Barbara have NOT been BFFS since childhood or whatever and this gets on my nerves that Tom Taylor and Hope Larson did that. This is one of the problems I have with the Dickbabs ship. Writers who write them love changing the story to erase Dick's friendships with the Titans. They literally love to pretend Wally, Donna, Roy, and Garth don't exist. BARBARA IS NOT HIS CHILDHOOD BEST FRIEND!! They literally keep deaging her and for what?? First she was like two decades older than him, then she's five years older than him, and now she's the same age?? Just let her be older! Barbara being the same age as Dick makes no sense because it takes away her maturity to turn her into this childish, selfish character she has no business being. She's not even enjoyable when she's deaged this far. I'm still on the she's 5 to 6 years older than Dick canon timeline and there is no way she was childhood besties with him.

The way I picture Dick and Barbara's relationship is this:

DC should've just let it at this, this was peak Dick and Barbara relationship.

Very narrow starting out list but some must read Dick Grayson runs are:

Nightwing (1996) - If you don't feel like reading anything else just read this

Nightwing (2016) - Really good up until Tom Taylor's run

Batman: Gotham Knights - pretty good and lots of cute Tim and Dick!

Titans (1999) - This is a must read if you're not interested in the original Teen Titans comics

Outsiders (2003) - Love him so much in this

JLA/Titans - Important for understanding his relationships with Titans and Batman

Nightwing (2011)

Justice League (2011) Issue #25 and Forever Evil - Same arc

Batman: Prelude to the Wedding: Nightwing vs. Hush

Robin era

Batman - One Bad Day: Mr. Freeze - If you want to skip the medal ages but still want to know what Dick was like as Robin, this comic is all you need to understand his character and personality and beliefs.

Batman Chronicles: The Gauntlet - Dick's gauntlet test!

Robin: Year One - For fun :)

Dick!Bats era

Batman: Battle for the Cowl - To get into Dick's batman

Batman (1940) Issues #682 to #713 - Batman Dick. Incredible. Dick was such a good batman and so fun to read.

Batman and Robin (2009) - Dick and Dami!

Batman: Streets of Gotham - Also Dick and Dami <3

Justice League of America (2006) Issues #41 to #60- Dick leading his own JLA team as Batman! SO FUN!!

Detective Comics (1937) Issue #864 to #881 - Honestly Batman Dick was so good I can't tell if I like Dick more as Nightwing or Batman. Obviously it's better for his mental health if he's nightwing but he just did such a great job as Batman.

Spy era

Grayson - YESSSS. Just everything about this.

Batman and Robin Eternal - It was really good up until near the end but then it got better again

Dark Crisis - Definitely, without a doubt, no question

Additional: The ones above are focused on him but if you finish reading this then Tim's Robin (1993) Comic is a fantastic one. He doesn't appear in every single issue but he appears a lot and it's a lot of Dick and Tim characterization. Also Teen Titans (2003) for more Dick and Titans relationships.

#dick grayson #nightwing #barbara gordon #batgirl #cl anon asks #cl asks #thanks for the ask!

[punkeropercyjackson]

I truly believe that i never would've cared about the Batfam long enough to stick around the fandom til now and plan to stay as long as i can if they were like what fanon stans want them to be canonically.Jason is unironically one of the love's of my life as a selfshipper who started reading comics because of him but i detest the 'better' version of him they've created and same goes for the rest of the Bats and all the non-Bats they've ruined to prop them up

No,i don't want to hear about a white man adopting kids just because they have blue eyes and canonical good parents being bashed or killed off so he can replace them.No,i don't think it's right to reduce one of the most iconic and influencel character's in comics history to a chronically happy dumbass manchild who's obsessed with his looks and sex and as an irl eldest sibling i feel personally insulted by what they've done to Dick because they don't know how siblinghood works.No,i don't like that Tim is always either getting demonized and called a bigot and abuser and 'incel' for being a realistic teenage boy constantly dealing with nonstop bullshit thrown at him in addition to already having childhood trauma or woobified and bamfified into a white male power fantasy-Often coupled with sexualization which is just plain horrifying because he's a fucking toddler.No,i don't feel taking an extremely rough and tough and canonically uncomfortable with society's ideas of femininity and what should be romance chinese girl and literally silencing her wants by erasing that she learned how to talk and how even before that she had major attitude and not only feminizing her but having the audacity to not even make her feminine in a chinese way and instead go the white girl femininity route

No,i don't enjoy seeing a brown arab boy who's already a victim of islamophobic stereotypes in canon have even more added onto it by adultifying him either for bashing or simping and even fucking animalizing him so the white boys he's shipped with can 'domesticate'(an actual term i've seen used for him multiple times)him.No,i don't care that Jason being an angry goth asshole and morally gray is hot to you so you decided to erase his canonical trauma response of not being open to dating or sex unless it's with someone he's super close to due to how much hurt he's been through because you see traumatized men as a fetish instead of people and think you're not being ableist because you're a cis woman.No,i don't think i'm being 'too mean' by insulting and saying i fucking hate people who leave out the ONE black Batkid we've ever gotten in all almost 100 years of Batman comics for no real reason yet inserting the blonde white girl who's not even Bruce's daughter in any way because she DATED HIS SON and is basically dating his actual daughter now while doing it in the most mid fanarts and headcanons imaginable and when he's literally everything they love in white boy protagonists from other medias but they refuse to relate to autistic and queer black kids of any kind

I hope everybody who popuralized it back when the fandom was starting out rots and you're foul as hell if you perpetuate it too,i'm 10000000% serious from the bottom of my heart

#batfam #batfanon slander #bruce wayne #dick grayson #tim drake #cassandra cain #damian wayne #jason todd #duke thomas #stephanie brown #timsteph #stephcass #battinson supremacy #romani dick grayson #tim drake deserves better #pro cassandra cain #pro damian wayne #damian wayne defense squad #jon kent #colin wilkes #danny fenton #black jason todd #latino jason todd #afrolatino jason supremacy #duke is a robin #duke is a batboy #autistic duke thomas #trans duke thomas #x reader #summerposting

[littlefankingdom]

Bruce throwing a batarang at his son's throat makes no sense

When you read a comics, you have to ask yourself "is this in character or does it only serve the plot?", because comics LOVE to disregard a character's personality or morals to make their plot work. If it's the second one, I like to throw it in the trash that isn't canon.

Well, the batarang accident in Under The Red Hood is one of them. Let me explain:

The front of a human throat is a very delicate area of our body. On the back, we have our bones to protect the shit in there (and it is still a fragile area. One hit well placed, and you're dead), but the front is full access to so much stuff. When killing someone in a single strike, one could choose to slice their throat. There's only 2cm between the skin's surface and the principal arteries, a small blade is enough. At least, you can hurt their vocal cords. At worse, you cut the link between the heart, the lungs and the brain (aka, they're dead).

Bruce does not kill, so him targetting the throat with a sharp object is already out of character. It's too risky, he could easily kill them. But to his own son??? That he grieved and who is back from the dead??? Completely crazy.

So why? Why writing Batman throwing a batarang at his son's throat? Here is my theory:

I am 99% sure that you are not supposed to pick a side in Under The Red Hood, that it was intended to be a story where there was no clear solution, neither Jason or Bruce are totally right and both have their own good reasons for their actions and decisions. It's another nail in the coffin to demonstrate that the Joker won that day he killed Jason. Whatever happens, he wins, because the Joker only wants one thing: to mentally break Batman. It's difficult to write a story with such a goal, to be able to make your readers side with both at the same time. You need to balance everyone's actions so noone is too much of a "bad" guy.

However, at this point, Jason has already attacked Tim 2 TIMES. And even if Jason has his reasons to do so, Tim is completely innocent and does not deserve it. He's just a teenager doing his best to help others. Jason has hurt Tim badly, a good guy, and they need to balance this out. And so, they decide to make Bruce throws a batarang at Jason's throat.

It didn't work as intended AT ALL, because a lot of y'all totally forgive Jason's brutal attacks on an innocent teenager, but will not forgive Bruce throwing a batarang to the throat of his son, even if he is a mass murderer and attempted to kill another of his protegees at this point (I'm just pointing out why it wasn't a predictable outcome for the writing team. This is literally a post about how I hate that they made Bruce threw a batarang at Jason's throat, don't come at me)

And in the animated movie adaptation, done years later, Bruce doesn't throw a batarang at Jason's throat, but at his hand holding the gun (this confrontation is so better in the movie. With Jason pointing his gun at the Joker, than at himself, showing that, inside, he doesn't want the Joker dead, he wants his father's attention, he wants him to show that he cares, because Bruce sucks at showing emotions and communation. And, when the building exploses, Bruce throws himself over Jason to protect him, probably the same way he wished he could have all those years ago. Good shit right there) Why make this change? Is it because a batarang to the throat that too gruesome for the format? Or is it because the Titans' Tower didn't happen in the animated universe (RIP Tim, forever in Queer Jail)? Or is it because they have seen how people reacted to the comics and didn't like it?

It's just a theory, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Shout out to the fanfic writers who say the batarang hit Jason's hand and ricocheted into his neck, making it an accident. That's possible, Bruce can fuck up a bit with the emotions and everything going on.

#batman #bruce wayne #red hood #jason todd #my “Bruce wouldn't do that” series #which is probably going to be in majority about interactions with Jason #in no way he is perfect but he has a strict code he wouldn't do that! #my ramblings #dc comics

[lightamp]

let's rate red hood costumes

if i forgot smth lo siento. just let me know, there are so many of these and i am one creature

this is just for fun btw. nothing serious here! <3

now these are all comic canon red hoods (except maybe two? we'll get to them). no alt universes. maybe one day.

now on to the costumes

Hush Jason. Maybe not technically Red Hood but like. c'mon. close enough

i'm giving the rating 6/10

I know the trench coat was probably more for mr. hush himself, but i enjoy it. i'm also a filthy pouch lover so they do get points. also in red! cute. the boots are also neat. the negatives are that ugly robin dress/tunic thing. kinda silly. still it was good for giving bruce a spook.

2. the classic. the og. red hood utrh version!

9/10, easy. the casual outfit paired with the sleek red helmet. *mwuah* wonderful! nothing bad to say. it's recognizable. comfortable. stylish. great job all around

3. titans tower. ah.

-10/10. i would give props for running around in the scalies BUT THE UGLY ASS YELLOW TIGHTS. disgusting. bare his legs to the world you cowards. i'm mad. this could get at least 7/10 for sheer moxy if it weren't for those hideous target brand pantyhose

4. brothers in blood.

he's literally just copying dick, but being unhinged as hell about it.

5.5/10. he looks good. who doesn't in nightwing's fit? though he is copying, he does get points for obsessive weirdness of it all.

bonus?

???/10 i don't know how i feel. i've never known how i feel about this.

5. final crisis

i think he had a helmet in this arc and it broke but dont quote me!!!! pay me to read final crisis again if you have an issue.

he spends most of his time in jeans + leather jacket + just the domino

this is probably the most boring but i give it a 10/10 my boring ass loves it. no dressups just a guy in a shitty little mask. clapping. bravo. there's something ~thematic~ bout it

6. final crisis pt 2

1/10 i hate the red robin suit i hate it i hate it. we finally got tim out of the damn thing even though it came at too high a cost (he's trapped in robin purgatory). it does look okay in wfa, but usually in dc reg comics it looks like ass.

regardless jason looks bad in it too. very sweet of murdery bruce to give it to him but ugh. at least could've given him some ears on that mask. then it couldve been bumped a point

7. batman

the first time jason decided to wear a muzzle. hm.

6/10. there's nothing wrong with it. it's just a bit generically 'what would gun batman look like'. the face part is my favorite, with the weird grater muzzle, pointy ears, and red glowing eyes. it's fun

8. batman&robin

i need to get my first thought out. the little symbol on his chest reminds me of homestuck. i can't really unsee it. i know like theres no connection. but it looks like it could belong on a homestuck human

anyway. 3.5/10. he was willing to try something totally new, so i'm giving points. i enjoy the white. is the red hood goofy af? yes. yes it is. iconic, though? sometimes the upper black part is drawn lower, i've noticed. it doesn't change much for me.

i like the thigh highs going on here. the red guns are sexy!. he looks bad but there are good things here!!!

there is this version, which ditches the thigh highs, gives back the classic helmet, removes the cape for a jacket, and adds belts.

6/10 i think it fixes a lot about the prev costume, though it's really just like they threw utrh's costume and his previous batman&robin costume in the blender lmfao

wow flashpoint. father todd is not a red hood, so we progress.

9. nu52

an update on the og look. i do like the contrasting brown jacket, the prominant thigh straps. sometimes his helmet is drawn suctioned to his face so -2 for any of that cause it's so weird

8/10 not a bad update to the classic.

10. red hood/arsenal

i dont remember when he changed into this actually. in my head it's rh/a but i could be wrong.

i see no one talking about this abomination. his new fit? yah. this one? no?

4/10 the bottom of this is fine. i HATE the jacket. sorry it's just. ugly. his arm bands are also clunky. the matching between arsenal and red hood is nice though. so it didnt get too low. roy pulls it off better :(

11. wingman

hm. i didnt read this. this makes me not want too akdsfhsl

0/10. ugly. looks like a villain in some scifi thing in the 90s. like power rangers. sentai villain looking ass. boring grey, ugly lines and shapes, the goofiest helmet on earth......

ig willis is burdened with this curse now

12. 3 jokers (dubiously canon. i dont consider it so but since dc left it in the air we add it)

he has a helmet for a bit. this one is interesting bc i could actually see it as a futhering of his costume had he lived. sans helmet ofc. it's hard bc i don't not like this, i just feel it doesnt fit his aesthetic in the present day. 5/10. if jason had lived and not become red hood id rank it higher but then we wouldnt be here, would we?

13. batman's gift

i debated putting this, but it's different enough from the nu52 vers

very fun. body armor all over. i like the red arm guards here unlike w/ the prev one that had these (less bulky ?). i like the leg stripes.

it doesn't really do much to change his look, but there are differences

7/10

14. task force z

it's like the above but more just body-armored. really all he's done is remove the jacket and get shoulder pads. 6/10. the negative point is for the lost jacket :(

bonus

7/10 i did say if he ditched the tights i'd rank it higher (twas all a dream through lmao)

15. current

controversial of me, but i think. i think it's fine.

now i do agree his little hoodie is.........well it's not that great. my least favorite part tbh.

the new brown pants nicely contrast, though i have seen this costume with grey pants too?

here we are. The red bandages are fun, i think if they were white i'd hate 'em but the red is interesting. i also like when bits of them are sticking out. idk. cute detail.

i like the muzzle mask as well. that with the hood has given us delightful in shadow!jason where only his eyes glow out. i also like when artists put his white hair tuft out. adorable. probably not what he's going for but that's what the creature no face look is for

really the hoodie is the one thing i'm ??? on. it looks silly in a bad way. there are ways to keep a red hood while giving a better jacket/vest. future state's was much nicer.

7.5/10

this wasn't in the ratings but i do prefer any weapon beyond the crowbar sigh. it starts showing up through a lot of them so i decided to just not do anything about the score.

#jason todd #red hood #dc

[gorogues]

tricksterrune replied to your text post: Clearly he has a pair of dice in his fist, ready to fling them dramatically at the right opportunity

Oh yes, clearly!

aukisstic replied to your ask post: THANK YOU I hate the pride special so much…

Yeah, I just did not think that story was good at all.

demonbirdsforever replied to your ask post: See this is where I go… they were in other comics!? I missed those!🥺

The Rogues are in tons of issues (cumulatively), but not all those stories are great :>

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Not to be weird or anything but rn I actually feel like for Captain Boomerang, Knight Terrors Robin #1 or Suicide Squad Blaze as a whole are the worse than Suicide Squad v4

You're not being weird at all, but neither of those are canon. If I'd included non-canon stuff the list would have been really different lol, but in hindsight I should have made that clear.

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Cuz Suicide Squad Blaze treated him like he was nothing more than a joke (and called him Captain Cultural Appropriation, which if we take Suicide Squad v4 #26 into account, where his mother is aboriginal, it feels like the writers just don’t know him), killed him off revealed that he was actually assaulted by whatever monster he was fighting and then killed him off for real.

Believe me, I agree that story was terrible :] It just didn't make the list because thankfully it's an AU.

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: And then in Knight Terrors: Robin #1 like… I understand it’s supposed to be from Tim Drake’s perspective, but it really paints Captain Boomerang in a really bad light. Like he killed Jack Drake on purpose. When he didn’t even throw the boomerang until he was collapsing from 3 gunshot wounds to the chest.

Well, Digger did go there to kill Jack, but Identity Crisis was a terrible story anyway. I should have included it in my worst Digger stories list, and am not sure how I forgot. I'll add it with a note that it's a late addition.

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Like… The beginning of Suicide Squad v4, yeah, I agree, they fucked over Digger big time, but at least it got better at the end, despite issue #26 also calling him Owen instead.

It's of course a very subjective matter (all best/worst lists are), but I just thought those comics were straight up edgy and terrible. I've never liked any Adam Glass or Ales Kot comics.

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Suicide Squad v1 was also Not Great™ as a whole due to the use of slurs for aboriginal people within it. Issue 4 was the worst of those where on top of using a slur for an aboriginal person to a black man, he also said black people can’t be artists and tried agree with a Nazi and made the super racist statement that minorities commit the most petty crimes.

This is also subjective, and I get where you're coming from but I don't think they're bad comics. It's fine if you don't like it -- a lot of people don't like what was done with Digger in that series, and that's valid -- but I think it's a good series. It hasn't always aged well, but it's the reason the Suicide Squad concept exists to this day. The racism is tough to read, but Ostrander was making a point about the garbage Waller, Bronze Tiger, and Vixen have to fight through to do their jobs and just exist as Black people. It does suck for Rogue fans that Digger was chosen to be the problematic mouthpiece, though, so I understand why some people don't like it. I agree it was a very drastic swing from his pre-Crisis characterization, so I don't love that aspect either.

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Sorry, I have many thoughts on the true worst Captain Boomerang comic.

That's fine! :)

it-is-i-zim replied to your ask post: Also for Owen I’d argue for the Supergirl v5 comics. Cuz apparently that version of Supergirl that he’s not only rooming with, but is also trying to get with is 16. And he’s like… Literally an adult man. He literally called that version of Supergirl “jailbait” in one of the better comics of the bunch.

Yeah, I have mixed feelings on that series. It wasn't good, but unfortunately I think a lot of Owen's stories weren't great so to me it doesn't necessarily stand out. He's a good character who's been in a lot of mediocre stories…in part because a lot of DC's output was mediocre around that time.

demonbirdsforever replied to your text post: I read the Catwoman issues you recommended and now understand the kiss.

Hope you enjoyed it!

#tricksterrune #aukisstic #demonbirdsforever #it is i zim #it-is-i-zim #words

[fancyfade]

im on twitter and seeing an audience of wfa that never read the comics, majority of their knowledge is from fics or other ppl’s comments on the subject. Like, there’s a person explaining the Robins to someone who started getting into wfa and Tim’s summary was “neighbor rich kid whose parents weren’t around and followed Batman & Robin with a camera” and bringing up how sad of a time Tim goes through. Jason is “revived by Ras Al Ghul (villain)” and it must be mentioned Jason tried to kill Tim. 1/4

Damian’s is just “assassin child who hates all other Robins and wants Robin for himself.” Some baseline introductions to Tim and Damian’s relationship is just: Damian almost killed Tim by punching him off a dinosaur and Damian cut Tim’s line and nothing else. Ofc their relationship was built on mutual jealousy and instigation (more so on Damian’s end but come on he was practically born and raised to think Violence is Always the Answer he should catch a break by now) 2/4

There are so many other examples of people bringing up wildly inaccurate “facts” of the batfam that you could easily find in abundance in fics. This one’s specific but it doesn’t help that a lot are from woobified Tim fics (i read those fics for fun! but going through those fic comments you start seeing the direct line from wfa introduction directly to fav character whump fics rather than the comics because it IS easier than diving into thousands of comics!) 3/4

Basically wfa is both great for introducing more people to the batfam, but also horrifically misinforming people of these characters when they try to delve deeper by reading fics rather than the comics themselves (i do see plenty getting into the comics, even start buying them! but the vast majority dives headfirst into fics). There’s plenty of canon-informed and well nuanced fics ofc but there’s also an abundance of heavily biased ones that may only contribute to old and undying opinions 4/4

TY for info anon!

NGL if they include Damian cutting Tim's line they should also include Tim putting Damian on a hitlist... like none of Damian's actions are illogical from his POV (this isn't saying they're EXCUSABLE just that there's solid logic behind it from his POV). and I did observe earlier today fandom also likes to ignore that Damian saved Tim's life (link).

(and ofc WFA made it look like Damian was messing up missions to spite Tim when that literally never happened).

I do feel like the bar for getting into comics if you fanboy Tim (and even Damian) is not super high NGL. Tim had a 200 issue solo title you could pretty much just read through it til you get bored barring a few crossover issues. like obviously no one is OBLIGATED to read it, i'm not the comics police, but I do think that the canon version is so much more interesting than the fanon version so I can't see why people wouldn't want to read it.

I know some really unpopular characters its hard to find comics for and you have to skip around a lot or read team series you don't care about the other characters for, but when a character is super popular you can normally get a good idea of them just reading their solo.

I think WFA managed to skate over all of Jason's violence to Tim which is hilarifrustrating b/c Jason really had it out for Tim way more than Damian did xD

#anon #ask #batman: wayne family adventures #dc comics #tim drake #damian wayne

[lorbanery]

Uch I'm so disappointed.

I was so excited when DC announced the new BTAS comic and that it was being headed by Paul Dini, and even more excited when they said they were going to be working Jason into the existing canon.

But then I never really heard much about it?

And now that I've finally read it, I understand why.

I'll just admit, I don't like the "Jason is a legitimate evil supervillain" characterization. I know there's folks out there who prefer it, fine, it's not my cup of tea and I don't like the way they did it here anymore than I like it when they do it in the main continuity.

But what really gets me is that they wrote him as being evil and unsaveable even as a child. Jason goes on a villainous rampage through Batman's rogues gallery as a tiny baby Robin. Not because he was angry at the harm they were causing, but because he just kind of reveled in the violence.

And to make it even worse, Alfred of all people is the one who tries to convince Bruce — before Jason even officially became Robin — that there was something "wrong" with Jason and basically that he was an irredeemable monster who couldn't be changed and couldn't be saved.

ALFRED.

I can't even wrap my head around how you justify writing this character who has, historically been an advocate for every single child who's come through his manor, and say "yeah this guy would totally write a FOURTEEN YEAR OLD CHILD off as horrible person who can't be helped."

AND THEN

AS IF TO JUST RUB SALT IN THE WOUND

Dick? Is nowhere to be fucking found. He appears in NAME ONLY in that ENTIRE storyline. Even the mainstream comics — which HATED Dick at the time Under the Red Hood was originally published — included Dick in the beginning of the story. They even used his presumed death as fodder for Jay to needle Bruce with!

But here? When they're rewriting this whole story from the bottom up, when they have free reign to do whatever they want — there's not even an embargo on using Dick anymore like there was when TNA was airing! Nothing. He may as well not exist for all that he has anything at all to do with this story. He's name-dropped solely to remind people who Alfred and Tim are talking about when they mention the first Robin.

It's so egregiously bad that we don't even know if Dick knows that Jason even EXISTS. The whole timeline works out such that Jason's entire tenure as Robin took place while Dick was traveling the world and he didn't come back until Tim was recruited. And of course the justification for why he was never mentioned or even gestured towards in the cartoon is that Bruce "never talks about him", leaving the implication that that is very literal and only the people who personally met Jason knew anything about him or his tenure as Robin.

So you have a scenario where Dick never met the kid at the time, and may not have heard of him after the fact. And since he doesn't appear AT ALL during that storyline, he never addresses it at all (partially because he barely exists in even the REST of the series).

So yeah! I genuinely have no idea if Dick Grayson even knows who Jason Todd is, nevermind that he was Robin!

And honestly it just comes off as them just not wanting to make that decision. Or just not wanting to deal with Dick, since he's such a NON-ENTITY even in the issues he actually shows up in.

It's so fucking disappointing, coming from the series that really made me love the Robins in the first place.

[danny-chase]

Honestly, I don’t even care if Tim drinks coffee or not, but at this point coffee addict Tim has become so synonymous with tropes i hate in fanfic if i see him drinking that stuff i just leave. 

Like a good 75% of the time if Tim’s drinking coffee the fic is also going to contain (rant under cut):

1. Character bashing Dick for taking away Robin and kicking Tim out of the family without acknowledging any of Tim’s faults (ie physically throwing Dick over his shoulder and demanding he be left alone before going off to find Bruce)

2. Character bashing Damian for making uwu little boi Tim feel so unsafe in his home again without acknowledging any of Tim’s faults (ie punching Damian in the face after he finds out Damian is Robin) 

3. Some combination of either Damian and/or Dick apologizing to Tim for things the author has clearly not read the source material for.

4. Cass doesn’t exist and instead the person to find Tim while searching for Bruce is Jason for some reason. Bonus points if Cass is there only to point out how sad a character is and basically be a therapy dog.

5. If Young Justice is there to sweep Tim off his feet into the arms his loving friends, it’s only Core Four and we ignore Greta, Anita, and Cissie because they aren’t core despite Cissie and Greta being there for almost the entire comic and Anita being an absolutely wonderfully kind person who was there for at least half the run

6. Tim is the smartest one of all, bow before his intelligence, he wasn’t grasping at straws he was just right the entire time, everyone is mean and terrible for not believing him.

7. Tim is the most sad, most traumatized member of the family, and this justifies all his behavior, no one else (except maybe jason) is allowed to have trauma that may have influenced their behavior. Jack and Janet are the worst parents in existence and Tim was always so lonely why did no one notice (companied with we’ve made Tim’s backstory even sadder for dramatic effect, growing up in boarding schools is not traumatic enough)? Everyone is terrible for not recognizing his trauma, they have no excuses for not doing so. 

8. I haven’t stumbled into any of these fics with Steph but i’m gonna guess since you clearly didn’t read the comics your about to either ignore their entire relationship, or not admit that Tim infantized her a ton (you can’t be a hero but i can, stay where you’re safe, etc.). Maybe she’s just here to throw bricks at Tim or smth idk.

9. Tim never apologizes, ever. For anything that happened in RR. Every mistake that other characters made is still canon in this fic, but none of the things Tim canonically did are.

10. There’s no way in hell Duke is going to make an appearance in this fic - we don’t have to include him because he wasn’t in this timeline. Okay but nice!Jason wasn’t here either so... where’s Duke? Cass?? Cass was in the comic but she’s not here either? And Damian’s a demon too? Huh. Wonder why the only “caring” person is Jason, who was a serial killer at this point in the comics. Maybe like reflect on what makes Jason different in comparison to the others.

I literally have no issues with Tim being a depressed coffee addict it’s just why do people use that as an excuse to bash characters for things they did (taken completely out of context) or things they never did? Or belittle the role of Cass in his life. Idk if you’re gonna “fix” a comic, maybe read the source material?

#had to get the fanon hate out of my system after reblogging that last post sorry #negativity #fanon critical #coffee tim is harmless it just comes with so much baggage i hate it #at this point its just a red flag for me #the tim characterization that comes with it isn't even that bothersome it's just like... #why the hell is jason the only person allowed to be a good brother in this fic #when Dick was a good brother during the era and y'all ignore those bits #and Damian would have been better if Tim didn't PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE #in the first issue #and ALSO CASS IS RIGHT THERE #but smh cass isn't allowed to be a human in this fandom #i legit hate therapy dog Cass so much like wtf is wrong with y'all why would you write her like that #just make a therapist character or OC use someone else cuz that aint it #anti tim drake #tagging anti just in case #i literally don't even hate canon tim i just read his comics and was like there are more interesting characters #canon tim's fine he's literally just a dork he's got some cute scenes #he plays video games with Barbara and locks Dick in her simulation room #but like fanon tim is just so annoying at this point #mostly because every other character is butchered into oblivion #i don't think i've ever seen legitimate criticism of any character on this website other than like Jason and Bruce #because the people writing criticism haven't actually... read the source material #so you're criticizing the character based on things other people said they've done with zero context for any reason they did it #i swear if i ever see someone call duke boring cuz he's the sane one i think i'll lose my goddamn mind #yall made him boring 😤 #he's perfectly not boring in the comics 😤 #rant post

[ectonurites]

is Robins canon or just a "fun" story for fans?

Well according to Seeley 'it fits' continuity

But like, it doesn't? It genuinely doesn't.

Tim is in an outfit he hasn't worn since 2006 and Seeley also thinks that's currently how he's dressing though so I think that should be an indication of what his grasp on current continuity is (hint: terrible, nonexistent)

He's deleted the main recent tweet I wanted to bring up (because he was getting ratioed hard) where he was bitching about people complaining about how it doesn't fit continuity and saying they were 'gatekeeping' and that when he first knew that this first issue of the book was going to be available free on DC Universe Infinite he wanted to prioritize making it 'accessible to new readers' but I just really do not understand how getting things factually wrong about characters' origins makes it more 'accessible' when all that does is make it more confusing if people who read your book then want to go read more about the characters and it's all contradictory?

He's also taken the "Well maybe the book just isn't for you" stance towards people complaining about it and like, in general I do think in some situations that can be a fair argument, because no book is going to hit the right way for every single audience...

But when fans voted for a book starring certain characters and then almost every fan of those characters hates it... who the hell was the book supposed to be for? You're trying to say it's not for the people who... voted for it? What the fuck kind of logic is that?

There literally just is not a place that this story fits into canon based on the combinations of outfits and things referenced in the dialogue, it's fucking insane that he's even trying to say it somehow fits. If he had just said 'oh, no, it's self contained' then I'd still be annoyed but I'd probably shut up about it a little more because in the long run it wouldn't matter, but if this is supposed to be canon then it does. Seeley has no fucking idea what he's talking about and it just... shows!

I am begging you guys not to buy this comic. I don't care how pretty the horny variant covers might be, just fuckin print the jpeg out for yourself on some nice paper, it's really not worth it because if you're supporting this you're showing DC that you don't care how well the characters are written or how their histories are respected as long as they're pretty.

[underthestarlitsky]

9 - 12

oooooh ty for the ask bestie ♡

9. Most disliked character(s)? Why?

oooooh tough but my most hated...probably tim and babs...sorry chloe

Tim, because ughhh he just rubs me the wrong way. the entitlement around being robin (what was his reason for being robin??? some abstract notion of justice??) the general misogyny and know-it-allness also the fact that there's literally nothing interesting about him. I have very specific ideas about tim should have slotted into the batfamily but the way DC executed it all those years ago is just Not It. he's literally just Some Guy (derogatory) like even my friends who are comics geeks + Tim stans agree that if he really doesn't add value to the story

Babs: I understand why she's well liked, and personally I think she's an excellent representation of a realistic woman. however, I just don't like the way she's written - the casual callousness to dick and steph and sometimes even cass, dick especially in the recent ric grayson arc. And I feel like the bitterness that comes across in her older oracle appearances could be justified even if I dont like them (but then there's stuff like when she blamed dick for being kissed by tarantula, or being extremely condescending to steph) but I especially don't like batgirl babs she's so aggravating to read?? like a h*rmione that never matured you know?? I think she's an interesting concept, but brought to life in the most white-feminist way possible

10. Most disliked arc? Why?

Generally bits from batman 2016 because Tom King has no clue what he's doing. like the wedding bit where selina leaves him at the altar (which is annoying because I love me some batcat) or ending bit up until issue #80 (I found all of that really stupid there was just too much going on and it would have made more sense for the wedding to happen in issue #50) I feel like with the artists you had on hand and the creative freedom tom king was afforded we could have had something truly brilliant? instead we got "meow" and a bedtime story about cannibalism and alfred dying and bruce calling only damian his son and beating his other sons and abandoning his eldest and interfering for no reason with jury duty? I feel like we could've gotten so much more out of tom king as a whole tbh

11. Is there an unpopular character you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

I'd say YJTV M'gann M'orzz tbh I know she's not technically DC comics per se but I loved her character when she was first introduced on the show. I feel like a lot of what she does comes from either a place of love or misunderstanding or hurt, and it's an interesting and complex story that doesn't really get a lot more exploration/is explored in a way that doesn't come off right. I feel like she has a lot of potential beyond being the first-girl-love-interest-character, and we don't get much of her backstory like we do with artemis so it's hard to build sympathy or context for her actions; but then again, eldest-sister first-girl characters are my bread and butter, so.

12. Is there an unpopular arc that you like that the fandom doesn’t? Why?

Easy. Forever Evil (and what comes after!)

I know plenty of people DESPISE Forever Evil for the things it did to people's perceptions of the Batfamily and the in-universe cascading events that follow, but I adore it personally for those reasons. Naturally DC doesn't follow through on anything that it writes, and the Bats' reactions to Dick being alive are awful, but I think Forever Evil is integral to canon characterization of the story that DC has been pushing in their depictions of Dick and Bruce and the rest in any kind of media - Dick is expendable, and even when he dies/is hurt for his family he's not good enough (which we see again and again with less and less self-awareness each time, especially with the Ric Grayson arc), Bruce has a clear capital p PROBLEM in how he treats those around him (just think of Stephanie and how her treatment is glossed over every time when people try to bend Bruce into a Good Father Figure in fanon) Jason and Tim have problems with their egos and their relationships with Bruce factor into their treatment of their brother (NEITHER OF THEM STOP TO ASK IF HE'S OKAY???) , and how Barbara (again, made out to be SO MEAN here, she's DISAPPOINTED that he's alive??) is often no better than Bruce himself, but she's framed as being right, again and again.

to me it just makes their characters messier and gives the fandom a chance to really dig into the angst behind all of this -- they aren't real, and therefore their pain is catharsis -- all of a sudden, you have a wellspring of well-written anger and sadness and complex relationships and that's why I LOVE Forever Evil - it produces problems that aren't easily solved. It gives us a chance as an audience to dig deeper into a pretty convenient set of 'happy family members' all through some shitty writing + editorial decisions that were not a good idea in-universe to make Batman or the others Good People, but an excellent way of generating emotional interest from the fans.

it also moves the the angst light away from Tim and Jason and onto Dick, because honestly the amount of fiction I've read where it's Poor Jason or worse, Poor Little Timmy being hurt by his Evil Eldest Brother ! makes me want to hurl. It's just such bad mischaracterization of each of them, and Forever Evil gives us a canon-based chance swing things in the other direction for once.

It's also (in my eyes) incredibly in-character - Bruce is a hard-ass on his emotional support eldest son after trauma (in this case, the ESES's OWN DEATH), Dick sets aside his own hurt and trauma to support his family, Jason and Tim are selfish as all hell without realizing that they are being that way, etc.

I just think it's Interesting. I'm also a Dick Grayson fan, so, that's probably why.

#suuuuuper long post #sorry about that ♡ #dc #☆ #dick grayson #batman #asks #thanks for the ask! #mgann morzz

[chelsieheartstriker]

It's not Zack, but his fans who are making the situation worse. Since I logged in, like you said Zack's haters have been dissing him everywhere. But Zack's fans too have been flocking under many tweets which don't demonize him n are simply stating their opinion on why the movies didn't work for them. I've also realized most of them never read comics n their only justification for bat/supes killing are golden age comics or injustice. They're comparing mainstream heroes to antiheroes n Watchmen-

I think we need to remember the context here: Zack’s haters have spent years vilifying him, to the point that he doesn’t really post on Twitter anymore. After his daughter’s death, you had people gleefully celebrating that it meant he was off Justice League. Under Tweets expressing fondness for his work, you’ll find his haters being like “lol, Martha” or “Snyder sucks”. His fans are more likely to be pointing out when an opinion involves ignoring what actually happened in the movie or objecting to downright defamation of character. You cannot equate these things. Have there been fans of his that were rude? Yeah, sure. But that is a very small percentage of his fans, the majority of whom are generally polite, but protective, because reviewers, bloggers, random people have been downright cruel for years. There is a distinct line between being, hey, stop being an asshole and Zack Snyder is a terrible person that hates his mom. At this point, if you don’t like his work, move on. It’s been three years since BvS. Let the people that enjoy it enjoy it.

And you want to know what our justification for Superman killing is? That he had a choice between protecting an innocent family that Zod was threatening and Zod, who had made it clear he was never going to stop, didn’t care how many people he killed. And that’s no choice at all. It’s about the fact that Clark spent so much time isolated, trying to be good and do the right thing, but there was no easy way out, no deux ex machina that would let him save everyone. Our justification is that Man of Steel put him in a position where he had no choice. Clark has just as much respect for life as any version of the character. He not only doesn’t kill except in the one instant he was backed into a corner, he doesn’t even raise his hands to fight childhood bullies, the drunk guy that threw stuff at him. He cried over Zod’s body. Our justification is that we don’t need to justify anything because the movie made it perfectly clear why it happened. It’s very similar to our justification for Batman killing. The story made very clear how he got to that point and the movie flat out doesn’t work without him having a moral code to which he’s now failing to live up. It’s literally about him getting back to heroism.

That is most definitely not true - or no more true than that most people don’t actually read comics. How is it fair to only criticize Snyder fans for that? What about people that hated on Titans that know nothing about the comics and only hate it because it’s not like the Teen Titans cartoon or the countless people whose idea of Superman comes from the Donner movies and not the comics? What about MCU fans that don’t know anything about how the comics Avengers are all terrible people that have trodden on mutant rights for years and insist that Captain America is an all around great guy that demonstrates the best of what America should be? What about XMCU fans that think Xavier is a hero and Wolverine is the most important character in the franchise? Hell, we don’t even have to talk about adaptations, here - most comic fans cherrypick what they want to accept from canon, and anything they don’t like, dismiss it as somehow less valid than what they do. This website is full of people whose idea of characters comes from fanon. Think about all those posts about the Batfamily featuring Batdad Bruce, happy go lucky Dick, lit nerd Jason, coffee addict Tim, perfect angel Cass, angry child that likes animals Damian - those have very little to do with who these characters actually are, yet those are the perspectives from which people criticize canon characterization! And besides, what gives you that idea? Have you conducted a survey? Have you polled fans of other superhero adaptations and compared the percentages? Have you compared those numbers to that of comic book readers in the general population, regardless of whether or not they like Snyder movies? Because if you haven’t, then I can say, with just as much validity as your “Snyder fans don’t read comics", that Snyder haters are mostly white fanboys and male feminists that refuse to recognize that it’s an immigrant story that is decidedly not for them.

And it’s not that we’re comparing mainstream heroes to antiheroes - or, at least, not in the modern sense. It’s that we’re embracing the idea of the classical anti-hero in just about all the protagonists. Someone that is constantly trying to do the right thing even when it’s hard to tell what the right thing is. A fallen hero that has to redeem himself. Someone that walked away from it all and is now coming back. DCEU Superman is absolutely not an antihero. He’s a very human, fundamentally good person in a deeply flawed world. That’s not a cynical message, it’s a hopeful one, deeply rooted in comic material.

#Anonymous #replies #Zack Snyder #DC Extended Universe #Clark Kent #DCEU positivity

[bluboothalassophile]

I honestly don't understand DC always trying to undermine Raven's powers. I read the current comics that she's in and it is so poorly written and boring. They suck at character development and its so fucked up that she's always brushed aside. And also I'll never forgive them for killing Roy and they keep fucking up Jason. These guys went through a lot and I just wanna see them be happy and I want to see more batfamily moments and team ups like in Batman and Robin Eternal.

Hello,

Reasons I am mad about Canon Raven:

She’s ALWAYS depowered; always, and she is literally the very definition of an over powered character. 

When they attempt to over power her again they fuck it up; like in Titans with Raven’s ‘telepathy’; she’s a fucking empath! NEVER has she been a telepath!

She has never been utilized outside of the Titans; which is infuriating on many levels. Because she needs to go solo; with a big comic or go to JL Dark or hell, team her up with Lucifer! I don’t know, but something outside of the fucking Titans!

Her solo series, while hold much promise are always cut short, or tie into nothing about her canon life.

They just severed her connection with her aunt and cousins, further isolating her again.

I am royally pissed that her connection with Victor Stone, a.k.a. Cyborg, (which I think is canonly her BEST familiar relationship EVER, their dynamic is amazing; it’s also an amazing dynamic for Victor too! So why was it cut!?) has been severed, was briefly rekindled only to be discarded again.

She’s always de-aged; sorry @chromium7sky, but I really hate that because I really think she should be about Jason and Tim’s age, hell, I’d even settle her being Dick’s age, just enough de-aging her! At this rate; and I’m sorry @impulse-goblin, she’ll be a RobRae with Carrie Kelley or Matt McGinnis! Which is so not okay because DC is screwing her over royally.

Marv, her creator, can no longer write her well to be engaging; which is sad.

She’s been royally dumbed down; which really fucking pisses me off, because even though N52 SUCKED BALLS, Raven, while bitchy, was always eager to learn; it’s one of her defining traits! She’s super smart, she’s engaging, she’s empathetic and kind, and rebirth has made it so she struggles with school. -.- Explain that to me, please, she’s never been stupid or struggled learning before. And I get trying to connect with modern readers, and making characters relateable, but that was just plain fucking stupid. There are other characters you can do that with, using Raven does not help in anyway.

I will not get into my issues with N52, there’s many, but mainly: WTF is up with Raven’s Entire Personality!? I mean don’t get me wrong, I loved the design she had, and I loved her on Tim’s team, also their entire friendship was amazing, but WTF, what a Bitch. I wanted to smack her.

They either forget she is a magic user, or they forget she’s a demon with demon abilities or something, but it always seems like one or the other is missing with her.

Off side key irritation too: How come her father doesn’t play a larger part of the DC universe and getting heroes to fear him? I mean come on! Titans plays him up to be like Darksied or Lucifer level of terrifying, and the DC universe: Who’s Trigon? WTF is that about!? You want the Only Daughter Of Trigon to have meaning, to show her power, then why the fuck isn’t Trigon more widely known and feared!? Come On People! We have Darksied’s ENTIRE Family feared, but you want to play Trigon off as eviler than Darksied but the entire DC universe outside Titans is like: Who the Fuck is Trigon!?

Kay, Metal hinted at her connection and importance to the Multiverse, but the DC, I don’t know… Forgot? And somehow the entire reason for her being captured, isolated and singled out by the Batman Who Laughed was forgotten. Granted my favorite panel of her and Victor happened because of that, but seriously; MAJOR PLOT HOLE DC! Come on, we aren’t Marvel, cease these plot holes in your big labels! Be grown ups!

Mainstream Raven hurts my Raven loving heart. But her counterparts are pretty cool, like on Earth 1 or Bombshells or the recent Titans movies, definitely liked her in the Titans live action show, and obviously I loved her in the cartoon; not Titan’s Go as that has helped in destroy her and the Titans. 

Now, my issues with Heroes Crisis:

King. Fucking cock teasing bastard tormented us with BatCat for over a year, getting them to the fucking alter then he did that fucking stunt; hell yes I am pissed still, and I am no less angry going into Heroes Crisis.

Kay, now for real.

I have major issues with the plot, thus far, because there doesn’t seem to be one.

Killing Roy and Wally did nothing to further a plot, or even engage in the plot and has just furthered to hurting surrounding characters.

Killing Roy was fucked up and senseless; as a writer I find that appalling.

Killing Wally was unnecessary; especially after all the fucking trouble we had gone through to get that speedster back! I mean COME ON! It’s like you brought him back solely to kill him off, and if that’s the case, someone smack a brain into King’s fucking head.

While the premise of Heroes Crisis was engaging and interesting to read the idea for it, it has been a dismal affair.

Why the fuck are your only suspects Harley Quinn and Micheal Carter, a.k.a. Booster Gold? No seriously want to explain that!? 

There is NO WAY Harley would ever hurt or kill Ivy, just no, and DC I don’t care about trying to cater to people and convincing all of Harley and Ivy are straight, it just wouldn’t happen. Ivy and Harley are in love, and I sincerely doubt, that despite EVERYTHING Harley has done in her life, that she would ever kill the woman she loved.

Also, Micheal Carter has selflessly saved the timeline multiple times, and done so without recognition. Yes, he can be full of himself, but where the hell did King come to the conclusion that Carter was a sociopathic narcissist? Someone please explain the basics of human nature to King; PLEASE! For the love of God, someone! I expect this crap from Lobell!

Now to my fury with the Batfamily in it’s current state:

Rebirth presented us with fairly healthy dynamics between the Batfamily members; which was refreshing as all get out, but now… I’d like to rip DC’s heart out and shove it up their ass for what they’ve done.

First, they allowed King to be the ultimate cock tease! Bastard built up the fucking BatCat wedding to be the wedding of the goddamn century; going to make comic history! And he fucks us over like we’re a two cent whore whilst simultaneously destroying the Batfamily.

Second: who the fuck even ALLOWED Lobdell into DC again to write!? I mean really!? Did you asshole not learn your lesson the first time!?

Third, wtf is up with Ric Grayson; I get it, we’re all exceedingly immature for taking an actually socially acceptable nickname from the 1930′s and perverting it into penis jokes. But news flash, Dick’s character has evolved with taking that in stride and laughing it off. Changing his name only pisses us off and furthers our desires to make dick jokes. 

Fourth: What the fuck are you guys even doing allowing Lobdell near Jason? I get it Lobdell is some ‘big shot’ good ‘big name to have on a comic’ but his writing is shit, I’ve read better stories from Kindergartners. Lobdell is like the Russo brothers of DC, please remove him from our premise, and I petition for us, the fans, to take custody of Jason from Lobdell for the sake of global comic peace. The Dude Can Not For The Love Of God Write. I’m surprised he even knows how to arrange letters on a piece of paper to form words honestly.

Why aren’t Duke and Cass B’s kids? No seriously? Why!? We all know those are his favorite two kids, so wtf are they doing… anywhere else but with the Bats?

Why is Babs Batgirl? Don’t go with that female empowering crap answer, just don’t, she was a better icon as Oracle than as Batgirl. She’s long since outgrown the role, and she had grown beautifully into the role of Oracle, so run this by me again: Why did we take a beautiful survivor, who created empowerment for people with disabilities while remaining a strong female lead and turn her back into Batgirl? Seriously? Someone explain that to me!?

Thank God DC hasn’t fucked up Tim yet, but Can We Please Stop With Evil Batman Tim!? Tim doesn’t even want to be Batman! He Never Has Wanted To Be Batman!

WTF did you do with Damian’s character development? He is not this baby raging Bat anymore who seeks to kill everyone who crosses him. Also what the hell was up with the whole Dami’s got a secret prison thing? That lead to nothing and has since been dropped, but seriously people, who is the lead brain in DC right now allowing this shit!?

Again, I must ask, what’s up with evil Bat futures; have we NO HOPE that these boys can grow up and actually be decent people!? Really. I want to know. I don’t get the options you’ve given these heroes.

Why does B have a double standard when it comes to Kate and Jason; and don’t say it’s because Jason’s killed, Damian’s killed and B is trying to be a good dad to him, so what’s up with this shit!? Is it really so much easier to have the rift between B and Jay than attempt to amend it!? If B has a problem with Jason using guns then the same problem should be applied to Kate; I don’t care about her likability, she’s a bitch and the double standard should cease.

And why is Jason trying to connect with Willis Todd? Willis was an abuse fucker or did Lobdell for get his own canon material again? Someone please remove Lobdell from DC premises! PLEASE! Send him to Marvel or something, I don’t care, but stop allowing him to fuck over Jason because he wants to!

Now, again, I’m brought to the double standards B has and his own reckless behavior. DC please, either find a ethics and morals person to join your writing team, or grow a fucking brain because you are precariously close to having Batman become the killer and the villain.

Why are we isolating the Bats again, when they were so connected at the start of Rebirth? I want to read about the Batfamily BEING A Family! Not this divide and pit against each other crap. 

The worst part of all this is, Rebirth actually started off great! Now it’s a flaming pile of wreckage and I almost wish we’d go back to N52 if only to stop watching the same trainwreck over and over happen.

#bluboothalassophile #hello reader

[salt-sass-and-lyrium]

That AngWowWow person is intense. Also, I don't think they've paid much attention to their canon 'evidence' because Tim and Jason literally are not adopted anymore. Tim for sure is not a 'son' of Bruce's. His parents are alive, & he's just been taken under Bruce's wing as a vigilante. Jason's adoption is a little fuzzy. Sometimes he's called 'son' and sometimes 'ward'. My initial interaction was new52 & they always came across as 'buds' (& still do tbh even having read pre-52 comics now). (pt1)

(pt2) Also just wanted to say thank you for sticking up for shippers (as a whole). People shouldn't be judged on the internet, its a melting pot of fuckery. The fact that there are people out there who make it their job to police it, and start witch hunts against people who are really doing no harm (instead of putting that effort out into the real world, to really do some good), boils my blood. Its cool seeing you speak out against that bs and I really appreciate it.

Well, for starters anon I’ll disagree with you on one thing. People should totally still be judged for what they do online. Just because it’s on the internet does not mean it’s free from scrutiny. You still choose what you do and don’t do online, and are still accountable for your behavior. That being said, with regards to JayTim... who gives a fuck?Like, like I’ve said multiple times, I don’t actually ship them, I’m just fine with the pairing. I don’t have many feelings towards them one way or the other. It just kills me when the ‘fandom police’ want to go around and shit on everyone because they don’t like XYZ pairing, especially when that pairing is between two consenting adults. And not just shit on them, but threaten them or encourage violence and wish death on them. Like, I’ll fight against and dislike DickDami until I die (because I’m not into pedophilia) but frankly I’ve got better things to do than find people who ship it and send them hate over it. And yeah, I don’t think WowWowWhatsHerFace has really kept up with the canon, since she seemed to still be viewing Jason as he was when he first came back from the Pit, and how his and Tim’s relationship used to be (and all of her arguments pretty much fell apart when brought face to face with actual canon). Granted, I admittedly haven’t kept fully up to date as I found New52 underwhelming and just haven’t taken the time to dig into Rebirth. You made a good point about Tim in current canon. I wasn’t sure about Rebirth but I know in New52 “Tim Drake” is an alias and his parents are still alive basically in witness protection. Bruce, to my knowledge, didn’t adopt him in N52. I think they spent like 6 months training together and that’s pretty much it. I dunno about Rebirth. Jason’s adoption has been pretty spotty since post-crisis as far as I can remember, but I got the feeling that Bruce at some point actually legally adopted him before he died.My TL;DR is who the fuck cares? If you don’t like a pairing, ignore it. You want to make a post about why you don’t like XYZ pairing, fine. Just don’t go and attack people for shipping people of legal consenting age (WHO ARE PRACTICALLY THE SAME FUCKING AGE)

[danny-chase]

Ask a game: Dick Grayson

Right, I don't care about a lot of his mischaracterization stuff (like i don't really care if people portray him as a himbo or idiot or whatever). What does annoy me is when people just claim he did stuff in canon that he never did. When you label something as a canon fixit - and it literally never happened like that in canon.

Dick hating jason is one of those things - people legit seem to think it's canon, and it feels like one of those things that had a fanon origin and has now come back to impacting canon (see rhato rebirth annual 2 - and even at the end jason admits Dick was a better brother than he gave him credit for). No comic before that has ever had Dick being rude/mean to Jason - even the ones in rhato 2011 which were supposed to show why jason had a grudge against him or whatever. like. The two literally just... had a good relationship before jason died, jason hung out with the titans at least a few times, and in at least one continuity, Dick passed Jason the Robin mantle instead of Bruce.

A similar thing has happened in Tim-centric fics, where all of Tim's Red Robin angst is because of Damian and Dick being horrible people. And you're completely just ignoring that part of Red Robin is Tim lashing out at people (he literally physically attacks both Dick and Damian in the series) and isolating himself. Like. Tim's doesn't come out of the comic doing the 100% right thing the entire time and everyone just bullies him for it. It feels like you're missing the point of the comic, which was that Dick was always there for Tim, always ready to catch him, always ready for him to come home, but Tim wasn't ready to open up/forgot that Dick was there for him. It's a case where I find the comic storyline more compelling because I feel like that's something you can delve into more - losing sight of the people that love and care for you is much more compelling imo than wtf fanon tim is doing.

So yeah the "Dick Grayson tries to be a good brother" tag is a massive miss to me, because he's literally just a good brother in canon to almost every member of the batfam, and if you're writing him as a bad brother, I have confidence that you've never read a single comic with him in it and you have no idea what's at the core of his character.

#it's not that you're bad for not reading comics #it's that i don't want to read something that portrays a worse version of one of my faves for no reason #he literally cares about his family so much #loyalty is 100% essential to his character #why tf else would he stick with Bruce for so long #he literally has the best relationships with everyone in the family (in the general sense he gets along the best with the most of them) #even in the continuities before fluffy batfam stuff was a thing #like i see ppl try to say he and Cass have a bad relationship sometimes #and like... HE READ AND ACTED OUT CINDERELLA FOR HER LIKE ARE YOU KIDDING ME #she kicked him out a window while HIGH and batgirl 2006 is literally just ooc like why tf would Dick be mad she got brainwashed #he literally walked around brainwashed for over a year in NTT #if your only evidence is ooc comics and something that happened while cass is drugged sorry i don't want to hear it #he was so happy to see her in Gates of Gotham #and she kicked Slade's ass for him #anyways lmfao #asks #ask games

[danny-chase]

Warnings: violence, blood, realism in comics, me mentioning things stans want to ignore to make a point, you don't have to consider them canon, I'm just making a point don't hurt me

Right. Been seeing dialog about Jason's decision to give up guns that i feel is missing a few points.

1. Bruce is traumatized by guns. Yeah he jumps in the line of fire every night but that doesn't mean he isn't scared of/triggered by them:

[Image ID: Oracle!Babs and Robin!Tim roll/walk through the clocktower. Babs: (about guns) Hates them. But doesn't fear them. Tim: Not the way he jumps in the line of fire night after night. Babs: Line of fire... Babs: I was afraid of them for a long time. I'd go faint at the sight of a gun on TV. Tim: You have reasons, Barbara. So does Batman. Babs: But I. worked through them. Babs: Maybe Bruce hasn't. Maybe he's not the rock we thought he was. Tim: He bought a gun as therapy? Babs: Look at the facts. He bought it just like any other citizen. Like he wanted to experience it as someone else would. Tim: I don't think- Computer: Keyword media search alert. Tim: What's that? End ID]

Birds of Prey (1998) #40

Bruce's opposition of guns is partially based in trauma - it's not completely a moral stance or completely logical rule. Jason giving up guns is for himself, but it allows him to be closer to Bruce and for Bruce to be more relaxed in his presence -> can make their relationship closer.

2. [X] weapon isn't even lethal. Getting cut/hurt + no health care = possible death from infection -> shooting a henchman with regular bullets in the foot can be lethal. Or cutting them with a batarang.

[Image ID: A girl walks home getting off the school bus. Girl: "Mama, I know you don't want to hear this, but --" She opens the door to an empty run down house. Girl: "Mama? Mama are you --?" She opens up the bathroom door, revealing her mother sweating and bleeding out on the ground, trying to press a towel to a wound on her side. Her mom is wearing a henchman outfit for the H.I.V.E. Girl: "Mama!" Mom: "Why -- Why are you home so soon?" The girl holds her mom in a sitting position. Girl: "This isn't the flu. You said you had the flu." Mom: "I -- I will be better soon. I just need to rest." Girl: "You need a hospital, mama." Mom: "No. If they find out -- they'll take you away from me. Send me back to Guatemala." The final panel shows a wisp of Ravens cape, the view zoomed out. Girl: "I know you want to protect me, but you need help now -- no matter what happens later." Raven: "Maybe I can help." End ID]

Titans: Titans Together #4

Similarly could ppl stop acting like rubber bullets are non lethal, everything the batfam uses can be lethal and cause scenes like above. Literally none of them can claim moral high ground they've all thrown batarangs in people's faces (off the top of my head, Jason nailed Dick with one in the face in BoC and Bruce got Jason in the neck in UTRH so there's the two characters at odds).

3. Jason/Bruce has never hurt an undeserving person. Jason isn't a mass murderer and you're slandering him. Bruce is the best dad ever you're an idiot for thinking otherwise.

...did you miss the times he tried to kill Tim? Or sprayed Dick with fear gas? Or shot Damian in the chest (not rubber bullets mind you). All of this happened in Battle of the Cowl. He poisoned 82 prisoners indiscriminately in Batman and Robin (2009) #23, went around killing random "thugs" in Brothers in Blood arc of Nightwing. Is it slander if he did it? Idk. If anyone can answer that lmk but everything is canon now so the point is moot.

And let me also say if everythings canon Bruce has also hurt/hit/abused his family (i don't have the specific issue numbers but runs that I've seen bad dad Bruce in are The New Titans, Batgirl (2000), Nightwing (1996), Tom Kings crap, RHATO rebirth, etc. I don't feel like going into detail but if hard pressed i will) don't try to paint me as a Bruce or Jason apologist/hater please

Also literally see the panel above 💀 the mom is an undocumented immigrant from Guatemala with an engineering degree she can't use because the US gov is literally fucking flaming garbage, so she had to take that job to provide for her daughter. Quit thinking extrajudicial murder/vigilantism is a woke take. No. Stop. Bad. Criminals have rights for a reason.

Can you choose to call the above things Jason and Bruce have done ooc and bad writing. Yep. Go ahead, be my guest. Just it's weird to me that ppl always seem to do it for one character and not the other. Like... that's not productive dialogue? And yeah both Jason and Bruce stans do this i just happened to see a post from a Jason stan so he got to be shamed first. If you think i think my fave is wrong, i literally made a post publically shaming him at one point, and wrote an entire fic dedicated to me pointing out why i think characters would hate him the most 🤷‍♀️ if someone read a comic that shows your fave in a bad light don't call them stupid for not liking that character just point them in the right direction and if you don't want to. Don't. Just block them. I'm tired of watching ppl act like their better than each other because they don't consider things canon (unless you stan a minority character and don't consider their racist/sexist writing canon in which case, same, you're the best ppl in this fandom)💀 or referencing fanon as canon and telling ppl to go read more comics 💀

Anyways the takeaways I've come out with are, this debate between the two is more than just morals, they've both wronged each other, and trying to simplify it down into victim and abuser is just - missing nuance and ignoring their full histories in my opinion and kinda just ends up flattening both characters and making both of them less relatable

#this post was brought to you by: I'm tired of seeing dumb takes on my reccomend dash #*screeches into the void* the whole batfam is problamatic it's literally fine #personally my take is jason giving up guns is ooc he's too dramatic for that shit #time to make the stans go brr #here we go have my unsolicited opinions #batfam #bruce wayne #jason todd #violence #blood #child abuse #negativity

[danny-chase]

dick *fire emoji* damian *fire emoji*

tim *fire emojI*

Dick: he's ugly and we as a fandom need to accept it, it's fine... literally every other guy dc draws is ugly too

He will never be as good as ntt Dick and that kind of annoys me. I miss him being a bit of a mess, i know the ric arc just happened but like idk, i just want him to stay awake for 3 days straight and get shot or something.

Idk my other unpopular opinion is that I don't think he undermines other characters simply by existing. I've seen him accused of undermining Damian's relationship with his parents, but yeah, no, I think Bruce's writers are doing it to themselves, and Talia's writers are racist so like how is that Dick's fault? He can be a cool big brother/mentor and Damian can still have other good familial relationships. He can be written as balanced to Barbara instead of undermining her position in the family (Dixon's run is a good example) and I don't think he undermines Cass's chances at being Batman because let's be real. Even if Dick was dead, they'd give it to loosely affiliated to the batfam man #27493 instead of Cass 😞 which really freaking sucks.

I also don't think he's hated by DC. He was hated specifically by Dan Didio, and boy does it show (i was rereading whatever crisis it was and my god Dick was def supposed to die), but I think most writers love him and think they're doing their best by him, which is why I theorize a lot of his character flaws have dissapeared (they love him and think he's perfect and don't want to show him as not perfect).

Damian: I don't think he ruins Talia's character (again I think the writers do that good enough themselves), and I like the idea that Talia tried secretly giving him up for adoption and thought he was free of this life, because actually that's incredibly noble and mature of her and tragic and would make a great story and DC please do a good retelling of son of the demon and make it canon-

I haven't actually read a lot of Damian's comics yet because uh i got stuck looking at Batman Incorporated and wanted to do things in order and I don't know 😭 i don't want to see it (but i need to because i like knowing things). So idk i guess i don't have much else.

Oh other than he's not "evil" for pushing Tim off a dino. Nah i don't understand why people take that scene so out of context - like ppl try to make such a big deal out of it but to Damian it like, wasn't personal? He didn't hate Tim in particular he legit just went "oh this is like home i have to kill him to beat the level" and caught Tim slipping.

Tim: Look I just don't like him after reading his comic run. Unpopular opinion: he's good at school and life in general. Like really good. He was being considered for a pretty hefty scholarship before he moved from Bludhaven back to Gotham, he's popular without even trying, and girls pretty much throw themselves at him at the drop of a hat. Bruce does better with him then most other Robins. Despite Jack being an idiot both him and Dana love him and are make efforts to connect with him. Pretty much the entire world in his comic revolves around him. He's a chad, not a loser. And he's also the most sexist robin stop pinning that on Damian, Damian has 2 throwaway lines, with Tim it's a pattern.

Another unpopular opinion: I legitimately think they made Tim the smart one tm because they didn't know what else to do with him and had to set him up as an equal for conflict with Damian and so he could throw his hat in the ring in Battle for the Cowl. I don't actually think it was done for the advancement of his character, I think they desperately needed something to put him on equal footing with the others, and it ended up making him more boring imo, and I think he should go back to being a gifted but otherwise normal kid because yes i found that boring too, but with good writing that's an idea that has potential

Ngl i disregard almost all canon when writing Tim and use him as a self insert, he just does what I would do and thinks like me 🤷‍♀️

#asks #ask games #look i think seeing each of the robins and comparing how they did in school is funny #Dick: gets bullied #Jason: teachers pet/nerd #Tim: the chad #Steph: she's popular but an average student (referencing her college days) #Damian: people would bully him if they could #apparently Robin and Batman 2 is bringing back Dick getting harrassed by other kids back into canon #it's a toss up really some comics have him doing well in school (Robin Year One) and others don't (an issue of Batman Black and White) #anyways Dick ends up being homeschooled later kshxjwksksn #I'm going to get killed over tim slander one day which is why i don't tag him in these #momo don't look