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just-late-roman-republic-things · 4 months

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Notes on Roman Homosexuality by Craig Williams, chapter 4! In today's installment, what is "manliness"? What did it mean for a man to be "effeminate"? Plus: not only are gender roles bullshit, but they're also connected to classism, imperialism and xenophobia!

Masculinity and femininity are social constructs. That means they are not inherent properties of our bodies, but judgments and categories people put on us. These social constructs aren't limited to physical sex, either - they tend to expand into elaborate, restrictive codes of dress, career, hobbies, speaking style, and every other aspect of daily life.

These social constructs are fragile and ever-changing. A Roman man wasn't a man solely because he had a dick. He had to reinforce his masculine persona by behaving in masculine ways, lest he be attacked as "effeminate" and lose other people's respect and trust.

Roman masculinity centered around dominance and control. Masculinity was realized by exerting power over your wife and children, by aggression in battle and the courtroom, and by the subjugation of slaves and non-Romans.

However, a Roman man was also supposed to be the master of his own desires, and a man who was too self-indulgent with food, sex, nice clothes, or other pleasures could get called effeminate. In fact, effeminate men were often stereotyped as womanizers. Other times they were accused of sleeping with men and women alike, or of being both penetrator and penetrated. The emasculation came not from sleeping with men per se, but from being a "slave to one's desires," and losing one's inhibitions.

(Aside #1 - I wonder if this partly accounts for why Stoicism became more popular among Roman men than Epicureanism?)

In fact, the masculine rejection of being "too emotional" was so intense that a Roman man could get called effeminate for falling in love with a woman. This inspired much of Octavian's propaganda against Mark Antony: that she "enslaved" him with her feminine wiles, and he in turn gave up his masculine virtue and his Romanness. Similarly, Pompey's contemporaries made fun of him for being excessively affectionate to his wife Julia (Caesar's daughter).

And oh yes, Romanness was equated to masculinity, and masculinity with virtue. The Latin word for virtue literally means "manliness," and the Romans saw themselves as being uniquely manly compared to the "soft, self-indulgent" men of other cultures. This later became a justification for subjugating those cultures: it was only natural that the "manly" nation ruled the "womanly" ones, right?

(Aside #2 - Reminds me a bit of how racial stereotypes today may emasculate marginalized men, or conversely, portray them as brutish/violent/hypersexual. I wonder if some of this may be a legacy from Roman ethnocentrism? Then again, it may not be a Roman-specific thing. This might just be something that imperialist/colonialist powers in general do to justify themselves.)

(Aside #3 - This must have interacted in interesting ways with the heavy immigration and multiculturalism in Rome! How do you prop up masculinity as a "Roman" virtue when every neighborhood speaks a different language? How much would the masculine ideal shift in response to new cultures coming in? And how much of our picture of "Roman gender roles" only reflects the upper-class Latin writers, leaving out other Roman narratives?)

Although willingly being penetrated could make a man effeminate in Roman eyes, the stereotype of the "effeminate" was much broader, and not all effeminate men were assumed to sleep with other men. Excessive attention to grooming, enjoying women's company (romantically or platonically), showing fear of death, even crying for a lost wife could all be seen as effeminate. The "problem" of effeminacy was not fundamentally a stigma toward gay men, but toward any man who was not seen as performing masculinity correctly.

In practice, any man could get accused of effeminacy, and Roman politicians would happily make up stories about their rivals if no evidence existed. If you weren't aggressive or dominant enough, you were accused of being too soft; if you were aggressive and dominant, you'd be accused of having no manly self-control.

Honestly, this chapter made me feel sorry for Roman men. It sounds like such a dreadfully unhealthy environment, not even being allowed to love your spouse too openly or grieve for your child without being seen as weak. I have to wonder if such rigid gender norms could themselves be traumatic - they certainly can be for trans people, and for women today.

Sometimes I'm amazed the Roman republic survived as long as it did. In between the slavery, the corruption, the generational trauma, and all the garbage gender roles, it feels like a culture that would bring out the worst in people. And yet, on the eve of Caesar and Pompey's civil war, 94% of the Senate voted for disarmament and peace.

Maybe I shouldn't be so surprised. Many of the sexist prejudices Williams outlined have parallels even in my own culture. And yet I've also known men who rose above that. Who understood that kindness isn't a weakness, and aggression isn't strength. It's hard to scrub all the sexist nonsense out of our brains, but gods, it's such a relief. Life is so much richer when you can just be yourself, and let other people be themselves.

I'm sure there were Romans who tried very hard to be themselves, too. And others who, even if their view was colored by the prejudices of their time, they at least tried to be kind and do right by others. That's all any of us can do, really.

#jlrrt reads #craig williams #roman homosexuality #sexism #toxic masculinity #jlrrt essays

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maryholdenofthevalley · 3 months

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The not-really-hidden meaning of the 1967 scene in Good Omens - Crowley and Aziraphale's First Confession

The job promotion scene in season 2 and what comes after that was not their first confession. No, no. It wasn't at all, and I have just found out about this too late.

(I have always been slow from picking up the undermeaning of people’s tones or writings and I have never seen anyone else talking about this, so this is like an enlightenment for me. To be fair, the bandstand scene was very close, but I will write a whole ass study about the entire season 1 riddle later.)

So, yes, I want to talk about how the entire season 1 was full of riddles and coded conversation and Neil was not being mysterious when he said this:

Maybe they have never kissed, held hands or said out loud “I want to date you” in season 1 (but did say “I know you do like me”??? unreal.), and so some people might think that Good Omens was just queerbaiting us, since the author clearly said it was a love story but they never explicitly confirm it on the screen? Yes, I used to think that too. I trust Neil, but I didn’t know him when I first watched season 1, and even though I have strong, concrete suspicions on so many scenes, unless they actually use one way or another to confirm it, I really couldn’t just go around saying their relationship is canon or something, right? And even regarding the tweet… I mean, if that were me, I could even say that friendship love is still love, so it’s still a love story if they aren’t lovers.

(There is a relationship dynamic called ‘queerplatonic’ and it’s not romantic love, but not friendship, either. I’m siding with the idea that Aziraphale and Crowley want to be romantic lovers, but if it’s not what they intend to and want something close to queerplatonic, then that’s fine, this whole post’s stand is still the same.)

It’s embarrassing that season 2 had to be out in the world and everyone was in shambles but in exchange for the right to claim canon relationship, that was when I started to believe season 1 was, indeed, a love story. And when I rewatched it, I almost had a heart attack because I cannot believe that one angel and one demon were so explicit in showing their romantic love, and they even actually CONFESSED ONCE, and I didn’t realise???????

So I am here trying to help anyone who is just as pathetically clueless as me. We are of the same kind, my friends. There’s nothing to be embarrassed about, notwithstanding anything I just say about being embarrassed.

First, let’s quickly visit this certain homosexual’s subculture around the world, where they spent years being oppressed, discriminated against and even killed for just wanting to love people with the same gender as theirs, so: they formed some sort of language or code that only the people in the community can understand, to recognize each other (you can read more about it here). One example I saw in a recent manga I read, “Hōzuki no Reitetsu”: gay men wear earring on their right ear - it’s not to ridiculous straight men as gay for wearing their jewellery in a certain way, it’s a coded fashion statement for gay men to recognize each other.

Why am I talking about this? Because Aziraphale and Crowley’s loving relationship, whether platonic or romantic, is just as forbidden in Good Omens world as homosexual in real life. Even if Heaven or Hell doesn’t consider homosexual to be a sin like some extreme conservative Christians think, or Aziraphale and Crowley is not exactly males (angels/demons are sexless), but as two Earth field workers respectively belong to two opposite sides who just want to declare war on the other side and destroy them, they are not different from two spies from two warring countries. Every interaction without authorities’ permission will be considered treason and will be punished. Not to mention after the battle against God, the former fallen angels - as well as those who remained - understood best how terrible the punishment for traitors could be.

That’s why when Crowley talked about the Agreement (first letter capitalised, not getting in each other’s way and helping each other when needed) and when Aziraphale thanked him for saving him, or when Aziraphale said he’s actually very kind or when Crowley asked if he should thank him, the other person freaked out and said “Don't say it!”. Don’t say it out loud. Because, even if their bosses weren’t supervising them, they both felt in their hearts that, if they acknowledged the existence of a not-so-nice angel and a not-so-evil demon, or describe their relationship in spoken words, then one day they will be discovered by their side and will be severely punished, or even not able to see each other anymore. Or the other person will experience the exact same feeling. If the two of them want to continue communicating in secret, they must have a series of secret intermediate meeting points, must talk to each other in codes, and the other person will always understand what the other person really wants to say. Or sometimes, think that they understand.

Besides, 6000 years have passed since the Earth was formed, and this “secret friendship” relationship has still not been discovered, and they have been very happy together for so long, and for them, putting a name on their relationship is extremely unnecessary. Their relationship is unique, no one can interfere, and no one should find out and call them anything other than “arch enemies” or “willy opponents”. This further contributes to the fact that any conversation that seems “more than friends” must be in extreme euphemism, because even being “friends” is not allowed.

Recently, I just found a fanfic on AO3 - post-professional endeavours by darcylindbergh - catches on very well the way they talk in code, in which I quote:

Ezra and Anthony were hardly joined at the hip; Anthony’d even told Daniella once that they were just colleagues, though Daniella had made a dramatic face about it and he’d had to concede, “All right, friends, then.” They never reached. They never curled together at tables in coffee shops; they didn’t lay side by side on sample mattresses, testing them out. They never said we in that tone, in that two-as-one kind of voice. They didn’t ring off phone calls with love yous and goodbyes. But she could see the way they looked at one another. She wasn’t sure if they thought they were hiding it from her, or if they thought they were hiding it from themselves. They weren’t very good at it, if they were. Or maybe they just weren’t really hiding anything, per se, but they were so used to never saying, to never acknowledging, to speaking euphemisms and riddles and code words, that they forgot how to speak clearly.

This. This is what I meant when I talked about the way Aziraphale and Crowley talked to each other over 6000 years, in fear of their two opposing sides, of their superiors, and of themselves. They have forgotten how to speak clearly.

So. And those are for before 1862 AD. I will soon get to the love confession scene that I promised you, but I have to analyze the scenes leading up to it first before we can understand it.

- 1862, St. James's Park: Their desire to protect their relationship leads to an unwanted overprotective reaction

This is where we started, with St. James’s Park, one of Aziraphale and Crowley's meeting points. Human spies throughout the park’s history have also used it to meet discreetly, pretending to feed the ducks to stand next to each other, but are actually discussing important matters.

This is the scene where Crowley first asked for holy water, in 1862. While pretending to be a stranger standing next to Aziraphale, Crowley opened like this:

“Look, I've been thinking. What if it all goes wrong? We have a lot in common, you and me [...] If it all goes wrong, I want insurance.”

Crowley needed a backup plan, because he was afraid that this little friendship he had would lead to his destruction, because Hell wouldn’t send a warning letter, Hell wouldn’t forgive. But Crowley found a way for him to continue this “fraternising” relationship instead of cutting ties with Aziraphale.

Aziraphale stopped Crowley’s attempt to take the holy water, because the holy water would not only temporarily damage the human corporation, but it would destroy the devil’s soul completely, just like what hellfire does to angel’s. Aziraphale’s first reaction was not “I won't help you because this is against the rules in Heaven” - which he would use as an excuse later, but fear, thinking that if Crowley got hold of the holy water, he could get hurt, whether accidentally or intentionally (if I talk more about the time Neil told us that Aziraphale doesn't keep holy water in the bookstore to protect himself from demons because doing so could accidentally hurt Crowley, I will scratch the wall and cry for another ten minutes).

Crowley got angry when Aziraphale called their relationship fraternising. He was accepting the risk when he asked for holy water so he could continue to be friends with this angel, and his angel called the thing he was trying to protect ‘fraternising’ like a something beneath him or similar, and angrily replied, “I have lots of other people to fraternise with, angel.”

And Aziraphale left, also angrily, burning Crowley’s holy water request, and the two of them never spoke again for nearly a hundred years... (yeah, they really didn’t see each other again) until Crowley saw Aziraphale get in trouble with the Nazis and jumped in to save him.

This might just be my own guess, but Aziraphale was faced with two choices here: either continue to be friends with Crowley but it would put him into a dangerous situation that he had to ask for dangerous insurance, or quit it before the time to use the insurance had come. It was clear which choice he took.

(About the reason Aziraphale left: when Aziraphale broke off his relationship with Crowley, he was also in conflict with himself about their relationship and his own relationship with Heaven, for more details you can read in this essay about Aziraphale as autistic-coded character (this is my backbone when watching the TV show). Aziraphale has done this several times: in the bandstand or the last moment of season 2, he always ended their relationship when he was overwhelmed with emotions, even though he didn’t want to.)

(In 1880s, about 20-30 years after St. James park, Aziraphale was learning to dance in a “discreet gentlemen club” which is, confirmed by Neil, a heavy reference of a real gay club back then.

and I can’t stop thinking about the headcanon “Aziraphale was so sad after he broke up with his ‘queer friend’ that he went and found other ‘queer friends’ for comfort”. Which also explained why Crowley didn’t know he could dance, since at that time they weren’t around each other to tell the story, and also Aziraphale wouldn’t be able to explain why he was in a gay club when they were on break---)

- 1941, The London Blitz: Aziraphale realised the feeling…?

At the sudden meet up after 79 years (if the 1827 Aziraphale consider one month of not meeting Crowley was a long time, I wonder how heartbreaking it was for him to not being able to meet him for almost a century), Aziraphale saw how Crowley still eyeing holy water but still hadn’t got it ever since he first asked for it (it kinda prove that Crowley didn’t need it when he wasn’t fraternising with Aziraphale), and in the same night:

practically realised his love for Crowley/realised how loved he was by Crowley

explicitly said to Crowley they are friends

saved Crowley from Hell’s punishment (=> and had it sink in again how much in trouble he would made Crowley for being with him)

had a romantic candle dinner with him in the bookshop's backroom

In one. single. night. Now that I talk about it, they really had had a wild night in 1941.

Aziraphale may be slow to change, but once given enough time to figure something out, he is extremely determined and stubborn. The moment he realised how much Crowley cared for him: jumping into consecrated ground to save him, using a miracle to save precious books, even though the two of them were still angry at each other; Aziraphale realised. Did he realise he had feelings for Crowley, or realised that Crowley cared about him more than a friend? Only Aziraphale knows it. Michael Sheen once said: “This was the point where Aziraphale falls in love with Crowley.” (23:30)

Bonus: About this post on Tumblr:

I think I don’t need to say much more. Let’s think about how, from then on, they have started a relationship that wasn’t about asking favours back and forth anymore: it's about friends helping each other when the other person needs it. Keep it in mind, because we will return to this point in a moment.

So, yes, they started their relationship again after that 1941 dinner, and there was also that unfilmed scene in the 1960s in America. It would eventually bring back the reason Crowley needed his insurance again, and this time, instead of asking Aziraphale and risking breaking up like they did once, Crowley went and planned to get it himself (I wonder if Crowley was rubbing it in Aziraphale's face to plan his heist in a pub just right across the bookshop. I know Soho was a good place for that shading activity according to Neil, but really, that petty? Even though he still didn’t want Aziraphale to find out?) before being stopped by Aziraphale who accidentally heard about it.

- 1967: The shift in the relationship and the unconscious confession

Crowley knew best how stubborn Aziraphale was, that’s why he always try to nudge him to agree to stuffs in roundabout ways in their 6000 years of knowing each other (like the time he made excuse so that Aziraphale would agree to help him raise the Antichrist).

But he had never persuaded Aziraphale to give him the holy water again.

“You told me what you think 105 years ago.”

He didn't do his usual to convince Aziraphale, but Aziraphale himself had come up and gave him what he wanted, just like Aziraphale had not asked him to rescue the books, but Crowley still used his demonic miracle to help them not being burnt to a crisp even though Aziraphale, who worships his books just as he worships his God, had forgotten about them.

Gave holy water to a demon, gave the demon an ultimate weapon that can make other demons fear of him. Something that would make Heaven smite him, for fraternising with a demon. Why? Because he was his friend. The only one he could see as friend in this whole universe.

“Should I say thank you?” “Better not.”

How risky and dangerous it is, to help an angel from being discorporated. To give a demon insurance from Hell’s rage.

But Aziraphale did it anyway instead of leaving, because he wanted to be with Crowley. And Crowley understood the meaning of that action. And this action changed something in their 6,000-year relationship that seemed to always remain unchanged, and that change was more dangerous than the word “friends" that they had gradually accepted in recent years, and they began to speak in a code that only the other could understand, because their fear of being discovered was ingrained in their celestial/occult’s blood, because this was how they spoke from the beginning, was the dance they have been doing for six thousand years.

“Well, can I drop you anywhere?” Crowley asked. (Let me help you back, I owe you this. Let me drop you somewhere else, somewhere nice, to say thank you. Maybe we can do something else, because clearly something has shifted heavily in our relationship, you just admit to me that you want to stay with me despite everything you believe in, and can I know more about that decision?)

Aziraphale had answered: “No, thank you. Oh, don't look so disappointed.”

(No, please don’t look so disappointed. I’m not rejecting you. I’m not rejecting this advancement in our relationship.)

“Perhaps one day we could… Go for a picnic. Dine at the Ritz.”

(We have done this so many times. We had so many shared meals together. We had gone out for no reason at all because we were friends. I had already admitted that you are my friend 26 years ago and you heard that. No, I’m not talking about the obvious matter that we are friends. I’m telling you we can advance this relationship at some point in the future, into whatever state it leads us to.)

So when Crowley offered, again, in a sickeningly soft voice, “I can give you a lift, anywhere you want to go”, it was so painfully, clearly a plea: “I’m ready to do this, angel, I want to be of use to you, I want to be with you anywhere”.

Crowley was offering something outside of their Arrangement, not just part of the ‘I own you you own me’ circle over and over again for years, but something beyond that, a plea that they could remain this current new side of the relationship. Or, maybe, he was seeking confirmation of whatever spark happened that night of 1941, the night they started helping each other outside of the Arrangement, the first time Crowley gave Aziraphale a lift with his brand new car.

It’s worth noting here that there’s a moment in season 2 that (in my interpretation) confirms 2023 Crowley still doesn’t realise his feelings for Aziraphale are “love”. So what does the code ‘I’ll give you a lift, anywhere you want to go’ mean here, if I keep insisting that Crowley already confessed in 1967?

Crowley is an optimist who improvises on the go, intuitive and has strong feelings. He rarely plans in advance, but most of his plans are “we will cross the bridge when we get there”. Evidence: it shows in the book that Crowley only thought of trapping Hastur in the answering machine when Aziraphale called him; or he always chose to run away first instead of finding a way to solve it, whether it is Armageddon or Satan.

So, by the time he offered to give Aziraphale a lift anywhere he wanted, Crowley was sensing a new shift in their relationship. And although he knew it was moving in a positive direction, he didn’t really understand it as “love” - and at that moment, didn’t really think about the opportunities, possibilities, nor the dangers that may arise if they continue to move beyond this relationship milestone.

But Aziraphale knew. Aziraphale, who understood that if he expressed his love for a devil would make him a traitor to Heaven, would cause him to be completely destroyed, would put Crowley in danger.

Aziraphale, just as sad and as gentle as he could, stopped him there.

“You go too fast for me, Crowley.”

(Like I said: I’m not prepared. You might be ready, and you might be eager to pursue this, but we are still not in the clear and there’s still danger if we do it. So let’s stop this conversation.)

Aziraphale had actually given Crowley the greenlight, in a possible future. When they no longer have to fear the punishment of Heaven and Hell, when they are free.

But until then, would Crowley still love him? Would Crowley still be waiting for him, and this world, to prepare?

Conclusion:

And that’s what I meant when I said 1967 was the year the two of them confessed their love to each other, even though the result never led to a new step or the end of their relationship, and one angel and one devil continue to know each other in fear, but with an understanding: that they can go further if this world allow them.

Before ending this post, I want to add one more detail that may be extremely important, but has not been completely confirmed yet. At the end of season 1 and in the novel, when the two of them ate a luxurious meal at the Ritz - the most luxurious hotel in England (they have been eating there together for a long time), there was a musician in the room playing and singing the song “A Nightingale Sang in Berkeley Square", with the following lyrics:

♪ That certain night ♪ The night we met ♪ There was magic abroad in the air ♪ There were angels dining at the Ritz ♪ And a nightingale sang in Berkeley Square

And the narrator, God (!!!) had said that when they were eating at the Ritz, there really was a nightingale singing in the Berkeley Square!!!

At the end of season 2, both Crowley and Aziraphale understood the nightingale's reference to love, and even used the bird to point out their love for each other???

sO the important thing we need to know here is whether Aziraphale understood this reference when he said “perhaps one day we could dine at the Ritz” in 1967? If he actually knew about it then, then this conversation he had with Crowley is even more obvious “we can be lovers but not now”. Even though this post would stand its point if he didn’t know it, but, if he did, I would literally put Neil in a demonic circle with ominous candles.

Edit: youryurigoddess has a meta’s about the possibility that both Aziraphale and Crowley had heard this song together and considered it their song in 1941. So it proves my point here, and I’m preparing the candles.

(Also, in case he didn’t know about the nightingale song then, I still think he would have heard Queen’s “Good Old-Fashioned Lover Boy” whenever Crowley giving him a lift somewhere:

♪ Dining at the Ritz, we'll meet at nine ♪ (One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine o'clock) precisely ♪ I will pay the bill, you taste the wine ♪ Driving back in style, in my saloon, will do quite nicely ♪ Just take me back to yours, that will be fine ♪ Come on and get it ♪ Ooh, love (there he goes again) ♪ Ooh, lover boy (he's my good old-fashioned lover boy, ooh) ♪ What're you doing tonight? Hey, boy ♪ Everything's all right, just hold on tight ♪ That's because I'm a good old-(fashioned, fashioned) lover boy

If Aziraphale still didn’t get in then I will give up.)

EXTRA BONUS:

I just read a post with the exact same topic as this one, but about the scene after Armageddon was successfully averted, and Crowley asked Aziraphale to come to his house after saying Aziraphale’s bookstore had burned down, you can read it here.

To summarise: In season 1 episode 2’s script, when Gabriel and Sandalphon went to the bookstore on Thursday (after Warlock’s birthday, Crowley went to Aziraphale’s bookstore to have a drink, which was Wednesday), Aziraphale could see Crowley walked out to his Bentley from window, that’s why Sandalphon smelled evil: because Crowley had just left.

So what does it mean? It means: Crowley just spent the night at Aziraphale bookstore. This one time didn’t really mean anything, the two of them have probably stayed at each other’s house overnight several times to drink alcohol. But, if so, then why did Aziraphale act so worried when Crowley invited him to sleep over at his house, if staying over at each other's house wasn’t something strange compared to before?

Because the moment Aziraphale stood up to Heaven and Hell, along with Crowley telling them about the Ineffable Plan to abort the Apocalypse, it was also the moment Aziraphale came out that he was on the same side as Crowley, that Aziraphale has betrayed Heaven. So when Crowley said:

“You can stay at my place, if you’d like.”

It’s. Not. It’s not as simple as ‘oh your house burned down I can give you a space to rest’ NO. It’s not that simple.

Crowley was suggesting something else, whether he was aware he was suggesting it or not, and Aziraphale understood it. Like when Aziraphale telling Crowley in 1967 “someday, who knows, we might have dinner at the Ritz” even though the two of them had dined together many times before and the Ritz also was just a restaurant like any other restaurant, if more luxurious: but it has a different meaning, because the two of them had learned about the song of the nightingale, about the love that blossomed while the two angels had dinner at the Ritz…

So what did Crowley mean when he invited Aziraphale over, you asked me again? To be honest, I’m not sure. My last three brain cells are yelling “THEY DEFINITELY FUCKED BUT IT WAS A DRUNKEN NIGHT AND THEY NEVER MENTIONED IT AGAIN JUST LIKE THAT CONFESSION IN 1967. DON’T BELIEVE IT? JUST LOOK AT AZIRAPHALE IN SEASON 2!!!!!”

Aziraphale in season 2 really was this close 🤏 to have a feast on Crowley’s body, I am sure about that. I don’t believe they’ve done nothing in 4 years; I didn’t believe that they held hands in the bus back then, but now I am a firm believer ✊✊✊ Just as how they had a 6-hour drinking at the news of Armageddon or how they stayed overnight drinking away the shock that Warlock was not the Antichrist, I believe that after the success of averting the end of the world, they held hand on the bus and then had a drinking blast back at the flat and then during drunkenness they fucked. And then not another word again. For four years, “pretending we are not together, but not really for the last few years”.

(I will have another post for this later)

Even so, if you don’t think they actually do something too intimate, then I think Crowley’s invitation still means something: we are now on our side now, please be together with me Aziraphale. Maybe he was trying to bring back the unanswered question back in 1967, when Aziraphale asked him to wait: Have you caught up now? Am I still too fast for you?

“You don’t have a side anymore. Neither of us do.”

They are no longer restrained by Heaven and Hell, Crowley reminded Aziraphale, the speed limit (danger) is no longer there. And that Crowley was still waiting for Aziraphale, that now Aziraphale had a chance to choose Crowley.

(Crowley I swear to God Herself-)

#good omens #good omens 2 #ineffable husbands #crowley #aziraphale #azicrow #crowley good omens #aziraphale good omens #1967 good omens #good omens analysis

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stranger-chichka · 2 years

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Why I think Dustin definitely knows about Byler and is more than ok with it

So, I already have a few posts about Dustin and his water-and-electricity-related lines, which I do believe are Byler-coded. As I was comparing Back to the Future with Stranger Things, I couldn't ignore the importance of two very similar buildings - the Clock Tower and the Hawkins Library, so I decided to look for every scene with the library in it (the post is already here). During this process, something different drew my attention. Dustin and Dart, to be exact.

So, Dustin finds Dart after treat-or-treating. What happened before? Will gets scared and Mike gets him to his home. We see Dustin trying to comfort Will, but Mike wants him all by himself.

I believe Dustin always knew Will and Mike's friendship was special (considering he called Lucas Mike's best friend in s1), but that was Dustin's oh moment. Let's move on. The next day he goes to the library to find some info about his "discovery" and then - to share it with the party and Max.

We see that Max, Lucas and Will aren’t really into Dart, they are kinda scared or even a little disgusted with him, but not Mike. He is really interested in it. Now, the interesting part. Dustin though it to be a pollywog. A tadpole. The larval stage of a toad. And ho is called "frogface" in s1? Mike.

From Dustin's research we know that:

most tadpoles are aquatic (=straight), but Dart isn't;

there are only two terrestrial pollywogs - one from India, and one from South America (during this line we see only Mike - in the light - and Will, so these words should refer to them)

Dart hates the sun, it hurts him (Will is associated with the light, and it hurts Mike to feel that way to his friend. Also, their love is forbidden and they have to hide it. There's no sun for them.)

The moment Dustin says: "I've discovered a new species" we can see a rainbow on the right. He's discovered that gay people exist but, specifically, he found out about Mike's love for Will, and Dart symbolises that (his growth symbolises Mike beginning to realise his romantical feelings and how he's feeling more and more insecure and scared about it because it doesn't feel right in that society). Next, we see disturbed Will. He already knows how Mike feels about him ("crazy together"), but he doesn't want others to discover, so he asks Mike for help.

Also, we see two young boys on Will's left, while Dustin is talking about his "discovery."

At that time Dustin, Lucas and Mike come to Mr. Clarke and again, we can see a rainbow near Dustin while he's speaking about his discovery, that "may change your perception of the world" (=gay people exist and this is normal). Also, behind Mr. Clarke there's a poster with the phrase "news from space" and in Back to the Future Martin's father wrote a book with the title "A match made in space." (And he's paralleled to Mike)

Of course, they're interrupted by panicked Mike, who calls this "a stupid prank" (stupid = love), and e see yellow, blue, and green (Byler colours) squares behind Mr. Clarke. (there are red squares - El's colour - too, but apart from others).

The party is at the AV club again, this time without Max = Mike and Will don't want her to know about them. During their talk, a rainbow apple is above Will and Mike. Will saw something like Dart last year = he was already in love with Mike. He didn't tell them, because wasn't sure about his own feelings.

Mike thinks they should take Dart to Hopper and it's better for him to be dead because it's from the Upside Down, which is logical because Will was hurt there and he cares about Will, but Dustin claims that the fact he's from the Upside Down doesn't automatically mean he's bad (=it's okay that you love Will more than a friend, don't try to bury these feelings).

the line "we have to take him to Hopper" made me think that maybe Mike is going to have some heart-to-heart with him in s5 (or maybe it was foreshadowing of Hopper's monologue telling us about Mike's feelings toward Will)

Mike is afraid of his feelings, so he decides to hit Dart, but Dustin pushes him away and Dart escapes because of Max. Mike blames Max in this situation, although it was him, who attacked Dart. It makes me think that Mike blames her for destroying his bond with Will because as soon as she joined their party, he was uncomfortable with being himself + after she started dating Lucas and El was back he felt like he has no choice but to date El.

While Mike wants to get rid of Dart, Will is trying to make a contact with him and doesn't want to hurt him (=he already accepted his feelings toward Mike and is okay with it).

We know that Dustin hides Dart and continues taking care of him until he's eaten his cat. Orange cat. It symbolises Max and how Mike treats her.

Mike tells Dustin and Lucas about the shadow Will saw and we see the rainbow apple above Lucas now (=he starts to realise something). Mike is afraid the shadow can hurt Will, so he is going to his home to check on him and ask Lucas and Dustin to look for Dart because he feels like Dart would help them to solve this thing (you're correct, Michael, just admit you love William already!)

Dustin closes Dart in the basement (can it be more obvious?) and after failing to contact Lucas and Mike (both spending time with their lovers) asks Steve to help him with it (by the way, Dustin shares his water-and-electricity-related lines with him). Dart escaped. Lucas and Dustin are arguing they both broke the rule of the law (telling Max the truth about Will and hiding Dart=Byler). + Dart once again is called "stupid."

So, if Dart symbolises the love between Will and Mike, then the Upside Down is the place where Will escaped because Mike had ignored his love confession in s1 ("it as a 7"). That's why he feels the Mind Flayer or has his episodes every time he feels some negative emotions connected to Mike/sees him with El etc.

Some posts, related to Dustin and Steve are here, here, here and here

There's not much interractions between Dustin, Mike and Will during s3 and s4. Not a coincidence. The Duffers made it definitely on purpose, to water down Byler, as to say. However, there are some interesting moments:

Dustin calling Mil3ven "a bullshit", looking at Will and wearing a green t-shirt = thinking about Byler;

Dustin is the one singing "Never Ending" story that is Byler-coded song (+ when Max and Lucas sing it he's wearing a green t-shirt and they change lyrics from "her" to "their face" and we actually see Will in a t-shirt with blue and red stripes)

in s4 we only know about Mike whining to Dustin about the phone, that's all, we don't even see their reunion. It's strange Duffers minimalised their interaction so much, but it also means we'll see it in s5 and that is whhen Dustin definitely will notice the electicity.

+ I somehow missed this parallel, but that’s not my main concern.

I remembered the meaning of the word “dart”. A small pointed missile that can be thrown or fired. The synonyms are “arrow”, “barb.” And who is associated with arrows in s4? Michael Wheeler.

NO WAY sign

arrow-shaped flag #1

literal arrow hitting his head + arrow-shaped pocket

arrow-shaped flag #2

Also, “to dart” means move or run somewhere suddenly or rapidly. And who’s always late? Whose playlist’s full of songs about running? No way, it’s Michael Wheeler again.

#byler #byler theory #stranger things theory #st theory #will byers #mike wheeler #dustin henderson #demogorgongate

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kookie-doughs · 3 years

Text

Beta Tester

Kozume Kenma X Reader

-YN LN is a popular mangaka

Chapter 16: Stage

Seeing you running towards him made Kenma frown.

"Kenma!" You waved. "Thank you for not leaving yet!"

Ignoring you he continued to walk towards the direction of the stage.

You pouted and crossed your arms. "You know... As sorry as I am for that kiss I really don't regret it."

Jogging up in front of him with a shit eating grin, you positioned yourself in front of him where he'd have no choice but to look at you while you looked at him. His ears were slightly red without a doubt but who were you kidding yours were too.

Kenma cleared his throat, "Good for you then. Now get out of the way so I could get out of here. "

"And honestly I liked that kiss." You continued determined to see him flustered again. "Your lips were soft and I bet my ass you're a great kisser. I rate you 10/10 would do it again."

With a glare he looked at you straight in the eyes, "So do it pussy." Then went ahead before you could see the red settling on his face.

"I- Wh- Excuse me- Wh- Huh? K-Ken- Kenma!!" You squeaked as you chased after him.

"I said what I said."

You finally caught up to him when he was about to climb the stairs towards the stage. Luckily(?) you also have to go up with him.

"Ehh... Where's the flustered Kenma? I wanted to see you all blushy and panicked. You looked so adorable. I don't want hot daddy Dom Kenma. I want cute baby sub Kenma..."

As he was halfway up the stairs your height gap grew and he was way over you. He just looked down on you, leaning closer the gap barely existent he smirked.

"Too bad." Then turned away.

There were a handful of people who saw the scene. Which made you more embarrassed. Holy shit you acted all alpha online only to be dominated by a hermit named Kozume Kenma.

Boy were you happy. You'd happily submit to him.

"Let us all welcome the two people who made the game possible! YN LN and Kozume Kenma!!"

You might be confused why you two were the ones going and why you were introduced like that.

As you are the creator of Puri-Puri you of course are the reason why this game existed.

But Kenma came here as he's the biggest investor, the face of the game and no one else wanted to go. So yeah...

As you two came up the stage you were just wishing the blush from the scene a few moments ago. The cameras flashed and claps were heard.

"Shit the media is here..." You mumbled.

"Your surprised, why?" Kenma gave you an amused and disappointed look. No idea how he managed to do that but he did.

"Shut the fuck up. I just got a feeling the questions won't be about the game thanks to the media."

"So you do think sometimes..."

"You want me to hit you?"

A clearing of throat behind you stopped your argument. It was Akaashi handing you both microphones to be clipped on you [I'm sorry I dont know what they're called] .

"Good luck, don't do and say anything stupid. And remember this is the release of PPM's demo." He reminded and got off the stage.

"Good evening to you all! I hope you've been having a great time!" I started.

"We'd like to thank you again for attending the release of PPM's demo."

"Now of course the game is yet to be played but from the trailer that was shown, I hope you had enjoyed it since the game is going to be much better than the trailer!"

"I'm sure you all must've questions as well. That's why Me and your idi-- dear author will answer."

"You definitely were about to call me idiot." You frowned at him.

He smirked and shrugged. "I have not a slightest idea what you mean."

"You're the worst."

Ignoring you... Again. He motioned at one of the reporters to probably ask their question.

"Ms. LN, as the initial plot of the Puri-Puri Magika is about [REDACTED], and the trailer we saw have quite a large difference from one another only having the universe in similarty. Is it just the universe of the similar one to the manga? "

"Of course the plot would be different. It disappoints me quite a bit that none of you realized how they're connected aside from the universe. Well, I don't really want to spoil you but if you actually read the Manga and saw the trailer," You gave a proud smirk. "Everyone that was a fan of PPM in the team were ecstatic. They were all just-" You mimicked a mind blown. "They were so excited about the game and a those."

"Thank you Ms. LN."

"Next please."

"Mr. Kozume," the next one called. "You were neither a fan of YN, nor PPM, why did you decide to not only beta test the game but sponsor and invest big sum of money on the game."

"We--"

"No wait ! I want to answer some of those questions!" You cut off cackling. "The one about him investing and him beta testing! It's actually an annoying and Hella funny story."

"No I was a--"

"Shut up you'll probably lie."

"Shut up." Kenma now had his ears red. "Don't you--"

"He was the biggest asshole back then!"

"Stop talking."

"He fucking beta tested despite not knowing shit about PPM because it was the biggest game. And he just banwagoned on it like a bitch he was."

"I did not. I had some clues about you Manga."

"You did not know shit about PPM cut yo bullshit. You didn't even know who the MC was!"

"Shut up."

"That's why he beta tested! Now the reason why he invested is really hilarious!"

"I really hate this story..."

"This was the reason why Kenma became Bae too! We didn't know shit about how to contact Kenma, we only had his email address and his social media. Keep that in mind. "

"So since he didn't know shit about PPM he really couldn't care about the plot and just looked for bugs and shit. He wasn't even aware of the bugs in the plot since he didn't know which what was supposed to be part of the plot and not. This bitch ass decided there wasn't any bugs anymore so we went with that. But then we had to play it and saw a shit ton of bugs."

"I said there were some bugs don't make me seems so stupid."

"You didn't even inform us about the glitch at the time skip part! That could've ruined the entire thing! Anywayz, so we had to code the game again. So we emailed him that there were way too many bugs other than what he told us so the next testing would be later. But the asshole never replied. And since I was the one entasked to guide this bitch ass, I had to flood his email! And he didn't respond! Not once! It had been DAYS! I send him at least 20 emails everyday! I have up on the 3-4th day and DMed him on Twitter."

"I really hate this part."

"No. No. This is the best part. Do y'all remember that one trending #KodzuGone started by Tenma? It's because, this asshole never responded to our emails so I DMed him all the shit important shit in the emails. Then this bitch fucking blocked me! I fucking rante to Tenma and he canceled Kenma like he deserved to! I was panicking about it since Mr. Suzumiya told me that Kenma could be a potential investor if he wanted. And I needed cash... "

"Do not call me that publicly. You are disgusting."

"He went full sugar daddy on me!" You cackled. "His entire squad had betrayed him! They were canceling him so he just fucking slid into my DMs apologizing about the shit he did and I told him, bitch I'm coming over there and see you play this fucking game or I will not stop this canceling and make it worse. So he was forced to telll me his address and I'm not sure if yall saw the live but it was hot shit. The next day he bought all the copies of PPM at this one store and gave them to me and then he invested shit ton of money on my on going works, bought me a new tablet, paid my Keiji bills, and many other shit. Yall would die to have him as sugar daddy I'm telling you. Ya don't even have to give him sugar for the treats. "

"That was the biggest mistake I made."

"Awwe, but thanks to that we're closer than ever. "

"Exactly my point."

"Thank you for answering Ms. LN."

"I hate you so much." Kenma sighed pinching the bridge of his nose.

"No you don't. Admit it you love me."

"I really don't. Next question please."

"A-Ah, my initial question was actually answered in the previous question. It about your live. Now my question is, Ms LN and Mr. Kozume, is your relationship really a platonic one or a romantic one? "

"Okay, babe," You chuckled. "my man won't even let me breathe the same air he does. Ya think we're dating?"

"Well your right."

"What?"

"Excuse me?"

"Huh?! " You exclaimed a little louder than you thought since the mic made a loud noise.

"The relationship we have is both platonic and romantic. As labels aren't placed we share a romantic relationship." Kenma smirked.

You looked at him and the crowd with a clear eminent blush. "I-I I- Wh-"

Pulling you closer to him and turning around so the crowd won't see you both. He lowered the mic to prevent them from hearing.

"I wanted to see you all blushy and panicked . You look adorable." He whispered to your ear before facing the crowd again who were now going crazy over what Kenma had just confirmed.

"Y-You're an asshole..."

"Yeah, an asshole who..." lowering his mic again he leaned to your ear. "Still has your favorite onsie at his place. You really shouldn't have left it at my place. I'm so tempted to burn it."

"You leave my onsie alone! I will drown your consoles."

"With that threat, you're suddenly stripped of your house visit privileges."

"W-Why would you say we're dating?!"

"I didn't. I just said we both share a romantic and platonic relationship with no labels. I technically didn't lie too."

"Why did you do this?"

"Aside from wanting to see you all flustered? I'm probably drunk." Kenma smiled and turned to the crowd again. "Next question please."

Previous | Masterlist | Next

I'm sorry lately there's been to many words and less pictures it's just that... Idk

Lol I'm sorry this was supposed to be smau but there's been too many words

Ooc Kenma is shit so I made him drunk

-kookie-doughs

Taglist?

@gayer-than-the-gayest-gay @synx-ed @normalisthenewnorm @0majuh0 @leachann @nikanikabitch @almondeupeach @immxnty @mer-majesty @yamayoomi @simpingoveranime-men @lostmarimoismyhubby @mariishat @just-snog-already

#haikyuu #haikyuu x reader #haikyuu!!#haikyuu-smau #hq smau #hq #x reader #haikyuu smau #hq!!#smau #kozume kenma #kenma smau #haikyuu kenma #kenma x reader #X reader

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ellelans · 3 years

Note

You made a tag comment about how Buddie wasn't planned from the beginning. And therefore what we got in Season 2 wasn't (at the time) the groundwork for a love story. I agree completely! Much of it I can see as either a bit of fun (the Christmas elf, the instagram girl) or that kind of hyper-masc heterosexuality that loops around itself and becomes gay (Buck's whole...thing with Eddie in the beginning, the focus on Eddie's body/hotness/physical appearance). But sometimes I step back and look at the whole and I'm all 🧐 🤔.

I don't even know what I'm asking lol. Would just love your thoughts/feelings on the confusing spectacle that are Buck and Eddie in season 2. And when/how/why did the show change their mind?

Thank you so much for the ask and you know what? Let’s talk about it.I recently had an in depth chat about this pretty unpopular opinion with a friend and I tried to explain to her why I don't see buddie as an actual pairing or having any canon potential until early s3 and why I don't believe they were planned from the beginning.This will be long and all over the place of course lol

The first and the most obvious reason is the way 911 deals with main characters and their romantic arcs.They don't actually drag it on for long because there is no need or time for that since every single main character has a strong storyline of their own and any romantic development between any pair as an additional combined storyline. Relationships happen fast on 911 because they are planned ahead and the only relationship that took longer than usual few episodes was Chim and Maddie and they were already kissing and planning a date in 2x11.

Also when shows enter their second season there is never a way to predict how long it will stay on the air and because of that it is impossible for me to believe that buddie was planned as some epic old school slowburn that is nowhere as close to be resolved after 3 seasons.When I say old school slowburn I mean shows that have this one heterosexual romance at the center of the universe that is usually stretched across seasons and builds up sexual tension between characters and it takes literally years for them to finally get together.We have these two characters that where made for each other and you KNOW that they will eventually get together because of some ridiculous pining that will eventually end in a kiss and everyone will scream and cry.And maybe that’s how buddie feels to me now after years of careful build up-but the way I see it they as a potential something didn't happen in s2.

We all joke about how character introduction of Eddie is the gayest we have ever seen and Buck's reaction to him as true bisexual and I do that myself too because I am a bisexual too and tbh its hard to unsee (also I don't want to) but lets remove our rainbow glasses for a second. What really did happened in that scene? Eddie's perfect abs on display,Chim and Hen fun comments on how beautiful he is,Bobby's praise and bragging about getting Eddie and his Silver Star on the team and Buck's insecurities flaring up as a reaction to all of this.Buck immediately feels threatened.At this point we of course have no idea how deeply his insecurities run or why,but as episode progresses we witness Eddie on his first call making a better decision to how to handle a medical situation and backed up by Bobby.It has sort of a devastating effect on Buck,who suddenly starts acting like we have never seen him before.Then there is a that scene at the gym where Buck tells Eddie how he is his problem. And later we of course have the scene in ambulance when Eddie asked what exactly they are measuring. Because that's what it looked like - a usual macho men measuring context. But the thing is 911 doesn’t toxic masculinity when it comes to main male characters and we saw many examples of that already by then,but the biggest one was supposed to be BuckandEddie. Equals,partners and best friends.

911 was already pushing boundaries with cast,characters and relationships diversity and I strongly believe that what they wanted to show us was a male equivalent of what we are used to see in female bffs -a different kind of a friendship between men. Men who care about each other,who talk about feelings,discuss sex,dating or why they don’t,who again openly acknowledge that they find each other attractive and giving advices on how to take a more flattering selfie,who are not afraid of crying, admit they are struggling or heartbroken or loving their kid.Honestly when was the last time any of us saw a male friendship like theirs?Men are not allowed to be like that on TV (I am still shocked that its a Fox show tbh) and especially with each other.We are not used to see such a development so no wonder people started paying attention-which was what writers wanted,of course.

But that also brings us to that important question about queer undertones,subtext and do what we actually see in s2. Are there queer undertones?Absolutely. Subtext?It’s right there but you will probably not get it unless you’re reading between the lines.Before we get to Christmas Elf,there was ‘’He is cute!/He gets that a lot,you should’ve seen his kid...’’ Maddie and Buck scene that is once again reinforces that Buck finds Eddie attractive and it shouldn’t be a surprise because we already know from 2x01 he has eyes - but they mention it AGAIN and that personally made me raise a brow or two.By the time we get to that Christmas episode,we already have Shannon back and Buck finally moved on from Abby with Taylor and then Ali and then we are given another queer coded scene-with Christmas elf.And its very cute and to an average heterosexual viewer its a nice little joke,but any queer watching that scene was probably taken aback a little.

So why imo did Tim&Co do it and when they realized they can actually see where they can take BuckandEddie and when they started becoming buddie?My answer is ship teasing.It’s what a lot of people actually mistake for queer baiting,but we are not talking about that rn.Ship teasing works like charm and if shows can get away with that-they will totally use it to their advantage.It’s usually not always malicious,but it IS always intentional because that brings in a category of people that were overlooked for a long time-online fandom.Now I have seen some opinions that fandom doesn’t really matter,it’s the ratings that count and that is NOT TRUE.You can have your ratings,but if there is no buzz online?Your show is going nowhere.For at least a decade now every self-respecting production has teams to monitor fandom activities because it gives them better ideas about how consumers(fans) are interacting with their product (show).Fandom is important because we generate the buzz.So I do believe that BuckandEddie and that sweet ship teasing were to get a certain part of the fandom pay attention.

I wasn’t here when S2 aired so I don’t know if that was the case,but it is obvious that these scenes I talked about above made fans pay a LOT of attention. And maybe that was the reaction writers needed to start changing course from ship teasing to start building up to something else.They maybe didn’t plan it at the very beginning and on paper,but lets also not forget the insane chemistry between Oilver and Ryan,which imo is another big reason-it's impossible to ignore.

Because S3?Is light years away from S2 in terms of BuckandEddie-they became buddie.In s3 Buck and Eddie become each other’s significant other,they are in a primary relationship. ’’Buck invites Eddie...’’?!!!!! It is not yet romantic and probably won’t be until ending of s5 if we are lucky-but it is in your face,they are not subtle anymore.I personally saw buddie only at the end of 3x03 when Eddie came over and said that there is noone in the world he trusts with his son more than Buck, looking like he did into Buck’s eyes,while ‘Photograph’ played in the background right before Buck’s overvoice about being seen and found and a raft to bring one home. After S4 ending tho...we all know that something is about to happen and its like there is electricity in the air as we are waiting for s5!

Probably a lot more thoughts than you expected,but I have many feelings about these two and when buddie goes canon this post will become completely irrelevant lol 💖

#what i was trying to say #is that s2 still can be read as heterosexual #but s3? no way #s3 was different #it was impossible to ignore that something is going on #911 #buddie

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