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#i'd die for the nie brothers
lansplaining · 1 year
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When JGY said he killed his father, brother, wife, son, teacher and friend, who was the teacher and who was the friend? I didn’t really understand who he was talking about.
I (and I think others) have always found the whole statement to be very frustratingly vague!
Father = obvious
Brother = either Jin Zixuan or Nie Mingjue. I found a reddit thread that notes he specifically says "older brother," which doesn't really narrow it down between the two, but might lean it towards NMJ?
Wife = you definitely didn't but okay
Son = again, don't think he did, but fine
Teacher = ??? I've seen an amazing post I now can't find suggesting this might refer to Wen Ruohan. I'd like to find the post, because knowing what word he uses in Chinese would probably be really helpful. It's hard to think of anyone else who quite fits this role, and if that is who he means, it's the first and only time anyone expresses any kind of issue with what all the characters otherwise find to be his defining heroic act. But this is also a moment where JGY is deliberately accepting every accusation and painting himself in the worst possible light, so it makes sense that he'd frame the assassination from the perspective of 'this guy took me in and trained me up and then I stabbed him in the back.'
Friend = ???? The same reddit thread made the very interesting argument that he might have meant Su Minshan, who he was very willing to let die for him and has in fact just died right before this speech. It would fit very well with the kinds of deaths (Qin Su's suicide, Jin Rusong's assassination) that he's taking direct credit for here. The possibly clearer case is that brother is JZX and friend is NMJ, though I'd really want to know what word specifically he uses in that case/if it's one he's ever used from NMJ before.
It's a really jumbled list, and I think that's maybe the point. He isn't trying to lay out a distinct and clear confession, he's trying to impress upon Lan Xichen that he has violated every form of relationship that their culture considers important (except one...), and yet he never tried to hurt Xichen (and never would).
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Okay, so, trying to get into this less refined thing.
As I said before, I actually have an outline for how the Butterfly Effect AU is supposed to go past the point I couldn't keep writing. If y'all don't mind spoilers, I'd be interested in your thoughts.
(But I'm putting it behind a cut for those who don't want spoilers.)
By the time his parents and brother and cousin get close enough to get Huaisang's attention, both Papa Nie and Mingjue are suffering pretty horrible nosebleeds, maybe even bleeding from the eyes too, and Linsong and Zonghui are not doing much better.
Understandably, since this is the day Mingjue died in the old timeline, the blood only makes Huaisang panic more, which makes the shockwaves worse.
Mingjue has no idea how to reassure him, just holding on to him in the hopes that will help somehow.
Suddenly he feels the cold shock of ghostly hands reaching into his body, something that had never happened before since Huaisang had always been partially solid.
While he's still stunned, he can feel something like layers and layers of grime being burned off his core as Huaisang clutches it. As the shockwaves die down, he finds himself feeling... better. A lot better. Even though he was nowhere near the qi deviation he'd experienced in the old timeline, the resentment was still starting to accumulate, and now it's just gone.
Huaisang seems to be just as surprised that whatever he did worked, at least as a temporary fix.
He starts to reach for their dad to do the same to him, but then he... flickers a little bit, like a struggling candle flame.
Oh. Shit. Papa Nie immediately realizes that they are now very short on time and orders everyone else to go get Huaisang's mama, the other siblings/extended family members, and every healer and strong cultivator they have, because they can't hold out hope that Huaisang will hang on long enough for Lan Qiren and Wen Ruohan to arrive. They have to execute the saber preservation plan now and pray it doesn't destroy him for good.
It takes the entire rest of the day and almost all the way through the night to finish the ritual, and by the time it's done, Huaisang is more like a smoke wisp than a glow. Pretty much all of his family is in tears, but he's... smiling.
It worked. Generations of Nies will be able to use the pear tree as a place to cleanse their sabers when they start getting too demanding, and the pears to cleanse themselves.
His brother's alive. His parents are alive. His cousins are alive. He has a sister now. The war never started. He has no more regrets.
Realizing that they really are going to lose him now, Mingjue makes him promise he'll come back somehow, so that they can eventually reincarnate as brothers again.
And then he's gone.
Three months later, Mingjue turns thirty and takes on the sect leader role, his father being the first Nie leader ever to be able to peacefully retire.
Six years after that, a circus caravan is passing through, and is invited to perform for the locals in the courtyard of the Unclean Realms. Nie Xunyao is the first to notice something strange, and immediately goes to get Mingjue.
There's a small boy among the performers, caring for the trained bird flock with surprising ease. He's happy and healthy and greets Nie-zongzhu with a huge grin and an offer to hold one of the colorful parrotlets.
He has bright green eyes and a very familiar face.
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thebiscuiteternal · 1 year
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I love your Nie bros concepts! How do you think the story would've been affected if Nie Huaisang were significantly younger - fifteen or sixteen years younger than Mingjue, perhaps born right before or even right AFTER he became sect leader. On one hand, you'd have Mingjue toting a baby around. On the other, you'd have Huaisang as a baby/young child DURING THE SUNSHOT CAMPAIGN.
Oooh, that has potential! Fandom (especially me) has gotten a whole lot out of Nie Mingjue having to balance between older brother/parental figure, but getting tossed into the teen parent deep end immediately after losing his father and being handed a sect? At fifteen? Whew.
Okay, so I am brainstorming this as I type, (which is pretty much how I post all my twitter concepts :p) so bear with me.
Let's start off by saying that Papa Nie and Huaisang's mama didn't marry by mutual agreement. They loved each other deeply and he took very good care of her, but they both knew she couldn't fill his first wife's shoes and weren't going to try and force it.
She doesn't live inside the Unclean Realms, so he and two healers he'd assigned to her were the only ones who knew she was pregnant.
And when it becomes evident that the shattering of his saber is turning him homicidally insane, the healer isn't about to let her anywhere near that whole mess.
But this becomes A Problem in and of itself when her health inexplicably begins to nosedive late in the pregnancy. Nobody can figure out why. She's eating fine and taking care of herself, but she keeps getting weaker and is losing weight despite the fetus continuing to grow.
Does it -somefuckinghow- have to do with his inevitably terminal decline?
Seven months in, she's bedridden and fading fast, and when the healer asks, she makes the call to induce labor. It might save or kill one or both of them, but if nothing is done, they're both definitely going to die.
Five days after Papa Nie's violent death, as the Nie sect is preparing for their previous sect leader's funeral, one of the two healers shows up at the gates bloody, distraught, and cradling a thick bundle of blankets, trying to shield it from the unseasonably chilly winds.
Let's say no one believes his(her? I don't really have a clear picture of these two yet, except I'd assume one is a midwife?) story. After all, Papa Nie had kept the pregnancy close to his chest.
But the arguing wakes up the -small, sickly, disturbingly quiet- baby in the blankets and he blinks up at them with the unmistakable green eyes of a bloodline Nie.
I am assuming that there are ways of telling parentage in this world, since as many fake pearls as Jin Guangshan seemingly gave out, one would have to know which kids are actually his bastards, so the test is run and yes, the baby is Papa Nie's.
Which puts forth a new dilemma, because the baby is a bastard child.
A couple of people in the room voice the opinion that it should just be gotten rid of, either by finding a parent well away from the sect or... other means, if necessary.
But Nie Mingjue happens to walk in and catch the tail end of that argument and demands to be caught up on the situation.
On being told he has a (very unexpected, very illegitimate) half-brother, he turns to the healer, who reflexively gives the baby a defensive squeeze and steps back.
Nie Mingjue's exhausted, red-eyed, and so pale that he practically matches his mourning robes. He looks like hell.
The moment the baby lays eyes on him, he giggles and reaches for Nie Mingjue's hair, and everyone sees the moment his bruised, grieving heart latches on to the infant. They can just tell the baby's not going anywhere, that Nie Mingjue refuses to lose any more relatives right now, even one he's only just met.
"Did she give him a name?"
"Huaisang. She wanted to name him the same way we do," the healer clarifies when Nie Mingjue gives her a questioning look.
"Okay, then. Hello, Sang-er."
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woobifiedvillain · 2 months
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I think I'd be less annoyed by "is NMJ being hypocritical" as a question if it focused on actually ambiguous cases where we don't know what he'd do in a certain context. Or exactly how he feels about something.
Because I don't think he is ultimately, but if there's situations where it's worth it to even ask, those do not regard JGY. Like there's a lot of things you can call it but telling someone to die for what's right when you are not only doing that right this very moment, it's your defining trait. There is no point at which NMJ is not literally dying about it so him telling someone "die about it" (his. Primary and ultimate demand of JGY, at the end of the day) is just never going to be hypocritical, that's not what that means, yk.
The Wen? Crunchier but still no. But I get where that question is coming from at least.
But like. If this is something we're going to insist on asking, where is the meta about my man NHS. Like that's *perfect* for this question because he's literally. In an applicable equivalent situation to NMJ (Nie sect, Nie main family, Nie heir) and! And! NMJ is basically the sole arbitrator of how this is enforced. NHSs obligations that is.
Like he didn't come up with them, it's still complex. But unlike other situations where there's wider social factors at play or the person NMJ is demanding something of is under direct obligation to another person(s), not just concepts. But with NHS, NMJ is literally *the* person tasked with enforcing the obligations NHS has to his sect, and with raising him to want to fulfill those. So it's much more apt to be like any dissonance here falls on him as the primary person possibly enforcing these (extant and not NMJs personally, but ones he's committed to nevertheless) rules.
Which is a pretty important metric for me at least. Like. How much control does this character have in what they're enforcing. Because I think at a certain point even if it is technically correct, in theory, to call someone a hypocrite. Idk how relevant it is from an analysis standpoint to be like this characters problem is having incongruent expectations regarding this situation which they did not create and are not the primary enforcer of. You know. That's just too individualistic for my taste, especially in a story where the tragedy is very much inescapable social factors, the book.
And like. I still don't think NMJ is being actively hypocritical here! Because he is very much doing exactly what he's telling NHS to do! And if anything in a fairer way than with JGY, because NHS is the heir and a Nie and under his direct authority etc. But. The reason I think it's an apt question is because unlike with JGY or even WQ, where his demand (go against authority when it's to do what's right, even if you die for it) matches what he's doing and what he believes (this is correct to do). It's more. Unclear. To what extent he believes it's genuinely always okay to ask someone to die. When it regards his brother.
Like. The thing that would make NMJ a hypocrite isn't actually asking someone to die! Because that's what he's DOING. What would make him a hypocrite, in a technical way (though I still think that's not the right word bc who uses hypocrite to mean more lenient with others than themselves? Like yes this is. Sort of. The same concept. But hypocrite has connotations beyond it's technical meaning and they tend to be unfair/derogatory yk) is by refusing to make someone do what he's doing. Specifically, someone with the *same* source of obligations as him!
Like if he let JGY off I'm not sure that'd even be hypocritical because JGY has obligations to others, so NMJ could justify that by switching his expectations to "do what's right unless it's sacrificing your families safety". But for NHS, because NHS is NMJs family. It's key to this whole thing that NMJ does not believe "what's right" and "dying about it" *contradict* here.
Because, as evidenced by his demands of both JGY and WQ, he very much does think one should betray their family or go against orders, if it comes down to it, to do what's right. This isn't hypocritical on his part unless you think he thinks what the Nie are doing is wrong.... which? He doesn't. Like you can argue that what the Nie are doing is demonic cultivation sure, but NMJ still isn't a hypocrite unless he also believes that, and thinks that demonic cultivation is always wrong inherently, not *just, when it's uncontrolled (which is. His primary issue with WWX. Like it's the lack of oversight. This is a man who is *specific* in his beefs with people and it's so interesting but overgeneralizing what he demands misses the point). Which he doesn't seem to, but we don't have enough information to prove that regardless. And given his existing dedication to not being a hypocrite, I find it bizarre to be like "well he's only expressed opinions to the perfect opposite but you know maybe he secretly knows hes wrong and is therefore hypocritical" like? No that's not. No. That's a fun theory but it's not really in the book. Especially given how um. It is otherwise demonstated that if NMJ thought he was doing something wrong he'd. Say so. And be very loud about it. Offer to kill himself on the spot. So why would he have this secret contradictory opinion he keeps to himself?
Point is. What would, if anything, make NMJ a hypocrite would be bending, not refusing to compromise. Letting someone *not* die for duty, for what's right, when he is actively doing that all the time and demanding it of everyone around him when it comes to a head. Making an exception is what would be the contradiction here.
And again I'm not sure hypocrisy is the best word, and it's not something that gets to happen in the text! It never comes to a head, because he dies first, and his last confrontation with NHS is pretty firmly pointed in the "fuck you you don't get out of this just because I love you" category. If anything, the fact that he *typically* let's NHS off easy is pointed out, so his behavior is turning towards the "double down and refuse to make the exceptions I'm tempted to ever, in any capacity, just to be safe" direction, rather than the opposite.
BUT. Given how telling yourself you're going to do something, have to do something, absolutely definitely will do something when it comes down to it! Is *different* than actually doing it. Is different than watching your brother slowly start to die the same way you did, when you are the sole authority (in a literal sense, these rules and expectations do exist outside of and above both of them) enforcing his death. Like. That's. Different. And I do think it's interesting to think about whether NMJs 1- habitually being lenient with NHS in regards to saber training and 2- refusal to even TELL HIM explicitly what this is all about. Is a sign of something. Like. Okay if there's an ounce of hesitation, and he's not even watching his brother die yet.
I mean. I'm assuming the plan is "die before I have to see it happen" but. It is veeeeery interesting to question what NMJ would do if he survived long enough to watch his expectations actually come full circle with his brother. And whether his commitment to fairness would win.
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littleragondin · 10 months
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i will knock you, the untamed, to sir, with love
Thank you Petri! (´。• ᵕ •。`) ♡
I've done To Sir, With Love already
I will knock you
Favourite character: it’s Noey, really. He’s a tiny gangster with a marshmallow heart! He thinks he lives in the 70s (?) and listen to music when he’s sad! He makes little lists of what to do to woo his tutor! He’s annoying yet adorable! He’s the oldest son but the baby brother vibes are impeccable.
Funniest character: it’s Thi, my pathetic little man.
Best-looking character: ok so hm, if I really had to pick I'd say Waewdao (lady in Noey's gang) and also think that Thiw is actually pretty charming.
3 favourite ships: > Noey/Thi, I was a little lukewarm at first (for many reasons but that’s a big age gap where they are in life), but they end up so sweet and the maturity level works > Waewdao/Rayrai. We only got the tiniest crumb but how could I resist a cute girl on a motorbike getting a nerd girlfriend with an attitude?? > Noey/Thiw. They’ve been best friend forever! They cry when they fight, then they cry again when they finally reconcile! They made a gang together and they are ride or die for each other, and while I adore them as best friends, I also think it would be cute.
Least favourite character: Thi’s parents, they can gtfo with their stupid elitism and picking on a 17 years old. Like, I can grasp that you’re not super into your ~22 yo son going out with a high schooler, that’s fair, but people, take it with your son first maybe, then don’t be snobbish assholes about it.
Least favourite ship: Noey/Pam, of course. Also Noey/salt, like please child step away from the shaker, we beg you.
Reason why I watch it: it’s fun and sweet, a little over the top but it’s mostly adorable, and I love a show that sticks to its aesthetic. Plus, of course, it’s SO visually pleasing, and I also like the music.
Why I started watching it: I saw gifs of Thi with wet eyes and Noey grabbing his chin, so paired with Noey’s incredible fashion sense, I had to check.
The Untamed
this one was SO hard dlsmjqkf (ಡ‸ಡ)
Favourite character: After careful consideration, and ignoring my tendency to want to pick the least known characters I love the most just so they can shine a little… It’s Jiang Cheng. It’s the miserable tempest of a man, the Most Little Brother With a Temper, the purple whip with a soft heart, I just. I really love him. Very VERY closely followed by Song Lan, my other tragic favorite, my best man who deserved so much better.
Funniest character: The Junior Quartet is a strong favorite of course (Jingyi and Zizhen especially) BUT I think I will go with Sect Master Yao, he's just such a joke.
Best-looking character: once again, how to chose in a sea of gorgeous people in even more gorgeous robes?! (did I spend 30 min just looking at different pics of the cast? … obviously). Okay, OKAY let’s try to be reasonable! I’d say… Song Lan, Jiang Cheng, Nie Mingjue (that one took my surprise ok), Jiang Yanli, Madame Yu. Can’t do less than a top 5 ;_;
3 favourite ships: Not in order but I guess those are the one I come back to most often so > Song Lan/Xiao Xingchen. They wanted to build a sect together okay?? They wanted to save the world together! Xiao Xingchen broke his vows and offered his eyes for Song Lan, and Song Lan will roam the earth until Xiao Xingchen’s soul is whole again! They are so tragic, and they love each other and man. They own my whole heart. > Every variation of 3zuns. Happy AU, tragic canon versions, two by two or the three of them together. There is so much love and hurt and betrayal in there it’s absolutely fascinating and I could spend hours just like. Thinking about them. > Mianmian/Qin Su. Look, do they interact even for a second on screen? No. Do I think that they would have crossed path bc both are both in the Jin sect and Mianmian could have been Qin Su’s knight in shinning armor when shit goes down? Yyyyeaaaahhhh. This one is tiny but I cherish it a lot.
Least favourite character: unsurprisingly, I have nothing but contempt for Jin Guangshan. Jin Zixun is also quite the little shit.
Least favourite ship: Hu, I’m… not so sure? I am not fond of Xue Yang with any of the Yi City players, mostly (not in a reciprocated, healthy way at least). I think in “canon” there are none I really dislike.
Reason why I watch it: I like the story, and most of all I ended up very attached to all the characters. I find it beautiful to watch, it emotionally works on me super well, and here too I just love the music.
Why I started watching it: I got taken in by the beautiful robes and long hair, as well as the promise of Wangxian. I am, when it comes down to it, an easily swayed watcher lol
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jaimebluesq · 11 months
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for the 3 things Jaime would never write? 1 - Guardian (Weilan) in YOHE (the closest of Wuxia we have) Crossover with MDZS (especially Sangcheng) 2 - Xue Yang getting to corrupt Xiao Xingchen for real, no tricks 3 - NHS knowing JGY's plans to kill Da-ge and actually helping him to do so Oh, dear Jaime, good luck on that ;D
I started reading this and went “yeah, I wouldn't write #1 if only because it's been over a year since I watched Guardian and I only remember bits and pieces, so I wouldn't write about it” and then went “Yeah, I'm not exactly known for writing the Yi City Crew except on rare occasions, and corrupting XXC normally isn't in my wheelhouse”... and then you hit me with #3! My instinct was to balk and go “no!!!!!!!!!! NHS would never! Damn I need to write a snippet for one of the others because the very idea of this one is traumatizing me!”... and then my brain gave me a scenario that I would write even as my heart breaks writing it. So yeah, thank you for making me cry :-p
Ironically as I wrote this, some themes from my previous prompt response came through - ah, but NHS & JGY, the trauma gifts that keep on giving.
~ ~ ~
The boy rocked, stunned and speechless with tears falling down his cheeks, as his brother held him tightly. All around them, disciples and servants scurried about, some picking up debris, others bringing out buckets of water and mops to clean away the blood and viscera from the Unclean Realm's main hall.
One of the elders stopped at their side and crouched down. “Nie-gongzi- I mean, Nie-zongzhu. Perhaps it would be best if you were both elsewhere for this.”
He felt his brother nod against him and the next thing he knew, he was picked up and carried away to somewhere dark and safe.
“A-Sang? Talk to me, please,” his brother pleaded when they were away from listening ears.
“A-Die,” he sobbed. “He was going to- He killed A-Niang and then he was going to-”
“Shhhh.” His brother rocked him again. “He would never have hurt you.”
“This is why they say our family is cursed,” the boy muttered with his face pressed against his brother's robes. “It happened to Baba and it will happen to you and it will happen to me and I don't want to be cursed, Da-ge!”
“It won't happen to you, A-Sang.”
“But what about you?”
His brother sighed. “I will never, ever hurt you or anyone else we love. If I start slipping like Baba, I'd rather someone lock me in a room and leave me to die than to hurt you.”
...
It was with memories of a terrified child in the back of his mind that Nie Huaisang knocked at Jin Guangyao's door.
“Come in.”
Once the door had closed behind him, Nie Huaisang turned the lock so that nobody could enter. He wanted privacy for the conversation he was about to have today.
“What can I do for you, A-Sang?”
Nie Huaisang was too nervous to sit, and instead stood facing Jin Guangyao across the wide desk. “I know what you've been doing, San-ge.”
“What in heavens do you mean-”
“I know you're doing more than playing Clarity for Da-ge.”
There was a moment that Jin Guangyao was still, then his lips shifted into an easy smile. “I still have no idea what you mean. Have you been having strange dreams again? I could-”
“Don't lie to me!” He slammed his hand down on Jin Guangyao's desk. “You of all people, you know I'm not what people think I am. Don't treat me like I'm brainless.”
Jin Guangyao nodded and set aside the brush he'd been using to write letters before Nie Huaisang had entered. “So you know about Clarity. Have you told Da-ge?”
Nie Huaisang shook his head. “Are you doing it because you want Da-ge dead, or because someone's making you.”
“Da-ge and I have our differences,” Jin Guangyao sighed, “but I'm not so petty as to want him dead for those. But when Jin-zongzhu wants his opposition dead, and has decided that this is to be my test of loyalty... I'm sorry.”
Nie Huaisang swallowed hard. “Was it his or your decision to use Clarity?”
“Mine. I thought it would be untraceable.”
“It nearly was, I suspect there are very few who would figure it out.”
The two young men stared at each other for countless moments.
“So, what are you to do with me?” Jin Guangyao asked, his body tense like a cornered fox ready to bolt.
“You need to stop this horrible music-”
“Of course, I-”
“-and find another method.”
Jin Guangyao blinked.
“What you're doing is making his worst nightmares come true. He was already going downhill after the end of the war, and he's been getting worse and worse since then. You're just speeding up the very thing he has feared most. Da-ge would rather die than have a qi deviation so bad that he would hurt someone.”
Jin Guangyao's mouth opened, then closed again. Then he lifted a finger. “Are you trying to trick me into revealing something? Because there really isn't more to it than what you've figured out.”
Nie Huaisang shook his head. With a steeling breath of air, he sat down across the other man. “Da-ge is dying no matter what... so let's make certain he goes with dignity and honour. And after that... we're going to kill Jin Guangshan, and we're going to make him suffer.”
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eleanorfenyxwrites · 11 months
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I Wish I Could Quit You
Thoughts for how I think I'd want to end the fic under the cut! (behind the break since it contains spoilers for the movie which I know not everyone interested in the fic has seen ❤)
(warning, it's not happy. It is, at the very best, bittersweet)
So if I bite the bullet and stick with the gutwrenching ending (which only feels appropriate), Lan Xichen has to die as he's the Jack Twist analogue here.
Which also means that late in his marriage, when Nie Mingjue is increasingly unavailable and Lan Xichen is getting more and more unsettled with that, he goes and finds someone else to while away some lonely hours with.
And maybe he finds someone who's trapped in a marriage of extremely platonic love with his sister that neither of them can escape for fear of destroying their own/their families' reputations, but nor are either of them at all interested in being together physically knowing what they do. So Qin Su understands it when Jin Guangyao starts spending an awful lot of time going to look at the latest models of industrial farm equipment for sale, considering they live in a nice two-bedroom in a suburb and are only very tangentially related to the ranching/rodeo scene, in the way that your average citizen of cattle/rodeo country is.
And when Lan Xichen dies, Jin Guangyao debates for a long time what he'll do, but eventually he decides he has to know who this other man is who held such a big piece of his lover's heart for so long. Lan Xichen was careful not to give too many details about Nie Mingjue, but Jin Guangyao is smart and well-connected and he has all the time in the world to track down the loner ranchhand in Wyoming who used to herd sheep up on Brokeback, who lives practically off-grid in a little doublewide and drives a beat up truck and still wires a bit of pocket money to his little brother religiously on the first of every month, even though Nie Huaisang has long since graduated college and is comfortably settled in New York living the kind of life he's always wanted to, and he hasn't come out West since he left it as a young boy.
And one morning Nie Mingjue gets a knock on his door, which never happens since when his daughters visit he always goes to pick them up from the bus station, and no one else ever comes to see him.
The polite little rap-rap comes again, and he opens the door warily to find a well-dressed pretty little thing standing on the rickety steps up to his 'porch' looking very much out of place. And he introduces himself with, "I'm Lan Xichen's friend, Jin Guangyao," in that order, and hearing Xichen's name on someone else's lips is like a punch in the gut but he steps back to let Jin Guangyao in, and they don't necessarily talk about Xichen but they don't have to talk around his presence and his meaning in their lives either, and it's...good. It's nice.
Jin Guangyao stays for a week at a motel in town and he comes to see Nie Mingjue most evenings, and when the week is up Nie Mingjue has enough free time between jobs that he takes Jin Guangyao up to Brokeback and it doesn't offer either of them relief from the pain of not having Lan Xichen with them in this place that he loved so much, but it is, maybe, a tiny bit of closure.
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eastofakkala · 1 year
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For SangChengQing:
Is the relationship healthy?
Who gives the best advice?
Do A and B have a stronger bond with each other? Or do C and B or C and A have a stronger bond? Or are A, B, and C close together [equally]?
And even though it's not on the list, I'm curious: How do they get together as a throuple?
Oooh, this is a good one! I actually haven't thought much about SangChengQing despite writing one fic for them yet, so it's a good reason to do so.
Yes, definitely. All three of them balance one another out really well, learn to communicate, and make each other better human beings. Wen Qing helps the other two with their rage issues (yeah, Nie Huaisang might not scream and yell, but he can hold a grudge like nobody's business). Nie Huaisang can help the other two with their workaholic tendencies. Jiang Cheng probably stands up to others on his lovers' behalf because they're his people and he's ride-or-die for his people.
Probably Wen Qing, though Huaisang also surprises both his partners with his insights.
Initially, I'd say that Jiang Cheng has a stronger bond with either Wen Qing or Nie Huaisang than they do with each other. Huaisang may have less of a problem with the Wens than his da-ge, but she's still part of the family that killed his dad. Wen Qing is also kind of suspicious of Huaisang, probably for similar reasons. However, they get over it and become very close as well.
Hmm. I kinda have an AU pictured in my head in which they all get together at Cloud Recesses. Huaisang sees that Jiang Cheng has his eye on Wen Qing and vice versa. He's also probably initially into Jiang Cheng, but can appreciate that Wen Qing is both physically attractive and has cool vibes, so proposes that the three try getting together. And it goes...really, really well. Well enough that he rolls up to the Unclean Realm after the little excursion to fight the fairy statue being all "Heyyyyyy, da-ge, you didn't betroth me to anyone, right? Well, guess what? I want to get married now" "Huaisang are you in trouble? What did you do?" But as a result, Qinghe Nie is aligned by marriage with Yunmeng Jiang and the Dafan Wen branch of the family (yes, this is awkward for Mingjue, but his brother's happiness is the only thing in the world that can supersede his hatred of the Wens). Obviously, this will change the Sunshot Campaign. A LOT. Because it is me and canon made me sad enough, it'll change things for the better.
...damn it, I'm going to have to write this fic now.
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liesweliveby · 1 year
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♫ + nie huaisang, jiang cheng, jin guangyao
oh boy.
OH BOY!!!
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for nhs i'm gonna say "garden song" by phoebe bridgers!
"I don't know how, but I'm taller
it must be something in the water
everything's growing in our garden
you don't have to know that it's haunted
the doctor put her hands over my liver
she told me my resentment's getting smaller
no I'm not afraid of hard work
I get everything I want
I have everything I wanted..."
do you buddy. do you really
jiang cheng
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it was REALLY hard choosing for him but I'm gonna go with "neptune" by sleeping at last
"I'm only honest when it rains
if I time it right the thunder breaks when I open my mouth
I wanna tell you but I don't know how
I'm only honest when it rains
an open book with a torn out page
and my ink's run out
I wanna love you but I don't know how"
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how. HOW exactly am I supposed to pick one song for him. I won't. I refuse.
"a burning hill" (mitski)
"I am a forest fire
and I am the fire and I am the forest
and I am a witness watching it
"the family jewels" (marina and the diamonds)
"oh don't you find it strange
only thing we share is one last name
did I beat you at your own game?
typical of me to put us all to shame"
"fiction" (echos)
"i never wanted this to happen
never wanted this to die
but I've pushed myself down so far
i couldn't come back if I tried"
"dog days are over" (florence + the machine)
"run fast for your mother, run fast for your father
run for your children, for your sisters and brothers
leave all your love and your longing behind
you can't carry it with you if you want to survive"
"last words of a shooting star" (mitski)
"i always wanted to die clean and pretty
but i'd be too busy on working days"
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xiyao-feels · 1 year
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You know, with how JGY has a merciful streak for people her cares for that ultimately contributes to his downfall, what if he just... didn't? Like, he waits a few seconds longer so NMJ dies to WRH, or he just abandons NHS post assassinating NMJ, he kills Sisi rather than imprisoning her, etc.
Hmmm. I mean I feel like removing this as something he does would be a significant change to who he is as a person; he is someone who will take various risks for people he cares about/feels responsible for or to. If he doesn't have this tendency at all he's...a very different person! And particularly for the case of abandoning NHS, I can't see how this makes any sense; I think it's clear that he cares about NHS beyond pure pragmatism, but abandoning NHS doesn't make any sense from the perspectives of his relationship with the Lan or the Nie. Plus I mean—at this point he doesn't have any sense of NHS as a threat; why would he abandon him?
That said the risks JGY takes are calculated ones. It would have been safer to have Sisi and MXY killed, it's more dangerous to keep them alive—but it's not a big risk! It's actually a very small one. I think if he didn't think he could be safe with them alive he probably would have them killed; I don't think he'd like it, especially with Sisi, but I do think he'd do it.
On the other hand, the risk he takes saving NMJ is very very big; but not only does he genuinely feel like he owes NMJ, but by saving NMJ, he gets not only to save NMJ, but to kill WRH and win the war, and also become known as the person who saved NMJ, killed WRH, and won the war! It's an immense payoff, so it makes sense it's worth a bigger risk.
(As to NHS, again he doesn't have any sense of NHS as a risk at all, which is part of why I have such a hard time with this scenario; and of course if he did think of NHS as a risk, he'd have been keeping an eye on him and NHS would never have managed to do what he did in the first place. And if he knew what NHS was going to do he'd devote himself to making sure NHS couldn't threaten him anymore at all! I honestly can't see how just abandoning him would fit.)
So you could alter individual cases by giving him a clearer sense of the risks involved; if you wanted to give him magical knowledge from the future, I mean, sure. But it's not clear to me that's what you mean? If it's just that we remove the inner motivation to take these kinds of risks at all... I think honestly I'd be much less interested in a JGY who was like this; it's one thing to make calculated risks and tradeoffs which feature "I don't want to die, or lose all my political power (and then die)" as a very important result, and another to just not care at all about people who've treated him decently.
On the other hand—I've certainly thought before of just how much better off JGY would be if he didn't succeed in saving NMJ; he manages to kill WRH, of course, but NMJ dies of his wounds. (Not "dies of his wounds" because of JGY's intervention, but actually legitimately dies of his wounds.) Since NMJ is already dead, JGY doesn't kill him later on, so NHS never develops his enmity: poof, problem solved! It also of course means he never has to deal with NMJ physically attacking him and generally treating him like shit, which is also an improvement.
Funnily enough, it might even help the Wen! It's not a guarantee, of course, especially since a) NHS is clearly a believer in vengeance and WRH just killed his big brother and b) even if you don't think he enthusiastically signs on to vengeance against the Wen, he's very unlikely to be able to usefully build/exert his political influence so quickly; but at least you've removed NMJ's hatred from the scene, and you also wouldn't have the respected war hero Chifeng-zun speaking to against JC's attempt to defend WQ and WN. Which is to say, it removes one significant obstacle, even if there are many significant obstacles remaining.
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☕️ Nie Huaisang
Mmmmm. Reading it, I was rooting so hard for him not to be a badguy. I wanted him to be just a funny lil blorbo man who was opting out of the whole hardcore jianghu cultivation awesomeness competition because he doesn't want to die young of saber crazy like everyone else in his family.
Instead he's dancing on the edges of it--you can try to opt out of the competition, but you can't opt out of the emotional ties and social mores that say you have to avenge your brother's death. So he does what he does.
I just realized that I think I'd feel very differently about him if it weren't for the word-of-author reveal that he will eventually become chief cultivator. I can't find the source of that anymore so I don't know what exactly she said: is he deliberately angling for it? or do people nominate him as chief cultivator because they think he's a harmless place-holder that they can work around?
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rosethornewrites · 2 years
Text
Tuesday-Friday NR, E, & M reading
The usual
Finished
Not Rated:
Where the sun goes to die, by taurussieben
“Take me away, Lan Zhan,” Wei Wuxian said, while his eyes shifted from one point to another in the room before settling on the window. The sun was setting, throwing color after color on the sky while the dark blue of the oncoming night crept in.
At the end nothing is anymore, but everything comes.
Explicit:
puttin' on a show (just for you), by Mamoonde
Wei Ying has a bad habit of stripping his clothes while on the way to the bathroom with his windows open. To be fair, the apartment across his had been empty for a long time. Except now, it's very much lived in by a handsome af guy. But habits can be so hard to break - and Wei Ying does like the attention.
OR
Wei Ying decides to give private shows for his hot new neighbor.
Mature:
tall as the mountains that sheltered us, by thelastdboy
Suddenly, the clear sound of a qin rang out and the fierce corpses around them momentarily froze, as if stunned by the chord that had been played and a group of senior Lan cultivators joined them in the fight and finally it felt as if the balance had tipped in their favour. Around them, swords with beautiful blue sword glares sliced through rotting flesh and dark blood almost seemed to create a mist. The qin continued playing and soon, a xiao joined in as well. Still, it took too long until the final corpse finally fell and when it did, so did Wei Changze. The exhaustion and blood loss finally won out and he lost consciousness, before he even hit the ground.
or: Lan cultivators save Wei Changse and Cangse Sanren from certain death and take them to the Cloud Recesses to heal. From here on, the story changes.
Unfinished
Not Rated:
One more time with feeling, by Hauntcats
Wei Ying and Lan Zhan are married and settled into Cloud Recesses when Wei Ying finds himself back in Lotus Pier before leaving for the Lan lectures.
Or Really? I'm back in time again? Wahhh - Wei Ying.
I'd Give You The Moon, by Teadrenched
Wei Wuxian is very smart, but you wouldn't think that if you saw him now, lost alone in the woods at night and being choked by a witch. Despite his predicament, all Wei Wuxian can think about is how pretty the witch looked, and that he didn't know boys were allowed to wear dresses (but after seeing Lan Wangji, definitely thinks more should)
OR
Wei Ying finds fem witch Lan Zhan in the woods and goes to bother him whenever Madame Yu has been a bit too much
Explicit:
the long way back home, by Misila
Wei Ying always knew he was the single discordant note in the Jiang household. That was why, after graduating from university, he didn’t return home. With him gone, Yu Ziyuan wouldn’t have anyone to compare her son to, and Jiang Fengmian wouldn’t have to keep avoiding his own family to prevent further conflict.
…Right?
(Seven years later, married to the man of his life and with a four year-old son, Wei Ying returns to his hometown and tries to reconnect with his siblings and befriend his nephew; but, most of all, he struggles to figure out what’s wrong with his brother and how to help him, despite Jiang Cheng not wanting to have anything to do with him anymore.)
Heart of the Beast, by WaitForTheSnitch
“Wei Ying?” Nie Mingjue prompted him gently. “Where are your parents?”
“They went on a night hunt,” Wei Ying said, a bit evasively.
“Your parents are cultivators?” Da-ge asked in surprise. “Did they leave you here while they hunted? When did they go on their night hunt?”
“Four summers ago,” Wei Ying said a bit uncomfortable.
“Four summers ago,” Nie Mingjue repeated. “What are your parents’ names?”
“My mama is Cangse Sanren and my baba is Wei Changze,” Wei Ying told him, and recognition registered in Nie Mingjue’s eyes.
“Wei Ying,” Nie Mingjue said, sounding a bit regretful, “Your parents aren’t coming back.”
Or, Nie Mingjue and Nie Huaisang run into Wei Ying while in Yiling and decide to bring him home. And it changes everything.
Safely hidden in Gusu, by Aleaneah
Lan Wangji had just finished his three years of seclusion.
However, that doesn't mean he had finished his mourning and grieving.
How could it be otherwise, when his heart is dead ?
Then...
One day, a friend(?) come to him, scheming behind his fan.
And his world regain a little of its colors.
Mature:
What If..... Jiang Cheng Understood?, by ToxicAngel13
It didn't take a genius to realize just what had happened in the time that Wei Wuxian was gone. Not with that damn ribbon on his wrist and Jiang Cheng was not going to let his brother be taken advantage of!
Or a tale in which one insight sparks a world of change.
But This Time, I Have You, by Lotus_Seed
Lan Wangji follows Wei Wuxian at the siege. They both die and get sent back to the past. This time, Wei Wuxian isn't alone.
Together, they work things out.
Bones, by Forever_Marie
Disillusioned with his sect, Lan Wangji abandons it after his punishment. He takes A-Yuan and Lan Jingyi with him as he leaves as he can't stand to think about someone like Wei Ying being snuffed out in the Lan clan. He then gets strung into Nie Huaisangs plot of revenge somehow.
Not that he is complaining.
Get it right (this time), by AmiraAlzilu
Death would be a fate too kind for Wei Wuxian. He should pay for every sin he committed.
At least that’s the only explanation he has for this impossible situation. After falling from the cliff he woke up in his 15 year old body, just before his months of study at Cloud Recesses.
So, thinking it was for the best, he decides to disappear when he was supposed to be searching for their lost invitation.
Little does he know someone else came back in time with him.
Bloodsport, by SkullFeather3063
Before Jiang Fengmian could find him an orphaned Wei Wuxian was rescued by Baoshan Sanren. He was raised up in the celestial mountains by people who loved and adored him, looking forward to the day he got to descend and follow in his mother's footsteps.
Confident in his abilities but lost in his knowledge of this new world, Wei Wuxian decided to attend the educational event at Cloud Recesses to integrate himself into the Cultivation World.
Here was where his story began, where love first blossomed, and a new world was forged for the two youths.
This is a story about love and what people will do to get a taste of it...
An Almost Lan, by shinigami2174
Becoming a widow a couple of weeks shy of her fortieth birthday had never been Yu Ziyuan's plan. It had been so unexpected that she had yet to process that her life and her children's lives had changed for good. Little she knew how their lives would be changed for good.
Or
Madam Yu became a widow, in charge of three young children. Their inheritance is in danger and Jin Guangshan wants to take advantage of the situation. Her best friend presented her with a solution, she needs to get married again with the right candidate. She even found the right candidate for Madam Yu but he doesn't come alone, he is in charge of children too.
Or
Madam Yu marries Lan Qiren and the Lans, the Jiangs and Wei Ying grow up together as siblings.
This is a WangXian story, don't be fooled by the summary ( I suck at them!).
I Call For You to Come Back, by T98
It wasn't possible. And yet here they were. His parents looked at him full of fondness, unknowing of what he did or who he had become.
"A-ying, you are so big now," his mother spoke, tears running freely down her face.
Into the Oubliette, by Ruixx
Wei Wuxian never thought being a spouse could be a valid career path. Now married to to the mysterious, quiet Second Jade of Lan he has to learn to navigate through the notoriously strict Gusu Lan clan and make himself home. Unfortunately war looms on the horizon and his enigma of a husband doesn’t seem to have much of a plan other than screwing him senseless. He’s not complaining, really.
0 notes
wanyinxichen · 3 years
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on these endless days, when will our brotherly fate meet again? our separation at qinghe became my eternal grief.
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thebiscuiteternal · 7 months
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I have a prompt I'd love to throw your way for the jam:
MDZS/Untamed post-canon SangYao, another character (e.g. WWX or a snooping Junior) discovers that NHS has a little shrine/memorial nook set aside with JGY's hat, a lovingly painted portrait by NHS, and whatever other accoutrements strike your fancy (e.g. maybe a journal NHS writes in every day where he 'speaks' to JGY) that make it obvious the relationship SangYao once had. What they do with that is up to you, I just thought it would be fun (and potentially heartbreaking)
After thinking about it a bit, I've decided that I'm gonna set this in the same timeline as this one, so Jin Ling already knows that things between Nie Huaisang and Jin Guangyao were a lot less simple than everyone would like to believe, but he didn't know they were in a relationship at some point. Mixed canon, as per my usual.
------------
~ I suppose I should be angry. Would it be easier for you that way? For me to roar and rage about broken promises the way Da-ge does instead of hiding away in tears?
Well, I can't. Just like I can't say I never saw this coming. As soon as I saw you in the Nightless City, I knew I had been set aside for someone better and more acceptable in numerous ways.
Before I even fell for you, I knew I would never be good enough.
So I can't be angry.
But will you be angry with me if I am too ill to travel the day of the wedding? I promise to send extra gifts in my stead, and to try to send Da-ge in a good mood. ~
---
Jin Ling frowned as he closed up the letter and laid it back among the dozens of other letters and notes and drawings from Nie Huaisang that his shushu had been keeping in an unassuming little box hidden deep within the protected room where all his other most closely guarded secrets were held.
It was dated a solid two years before Nie Mingjue had die- been killed, but even though he didn't remember the wedding itself, he knew from records that Jin Guangyao and Qin Su had married after the murder and Nie Huaisang had attended as sect leader and representative.
Had he already tracked down any of Jin Guangyao's secrets by then?
Jin Ling doubted that. Surely there would have been more mention of him other than the guest list if he'd made a commotion, as Jin Ling had discovered many, many records of indescretions by assorted cultivators and outside nobles and merchants that could have been used as blackmail as he went through the contents of the room.
And some of them had been about Nie Huaisang. Jin Guangshan had found it almost disturbingly amusing to catalogue the apparent downward spiral of his hated rival's little brother.
So if there weren't any from the wedding... no, whatever had been going on then must have been genuine.
Knowing what he knew now from having talked to Nie Huaisang and read everything he'd found in the treasure room, Jin Ling could only feel an aching sort of pity for everyone involved except his yeye.
His shenshen, not having any idea what horrors were lurking behind her happy day.
Qin-furen, knowing what she was unwillingly allowing.
Nie Huaisang, newly brotherless and forced into the role of playing smiling wedding guest as the man he loved married someone else.
He even felt sorry for his shushu. It must have been miserable trapped under the weight of his mistakes and the what-might-have-beens.
Wiping his eyes with the heel of his hand, Jin Ling leaned back against the wall and let out a long sigh.
Unlike the blackmail records -burned- and the demonic cultivation notes -given to his shijiu- and a number of other things he'd already gone through, he wasn't sure what to do with these.
They were far too personal to just be put back on the shelf, and yet-
He considered possibly giving them to Nie Huaisang, but he didn't know if that would be an insult. The other sect leader had been surprisingly kind to him in helping him sort out his grief over several talks and exchanges of letters, and Jin Ling didn't want to wind up pouring salt in an old wound.
But it felt wrong to simply get rid of them, and he couldn't think of any better place for them to go.
---
Though he couldn't go anywhere he pleased with impunity like his shushu once had, Jin Ling had discovered during his visits that he still had a surprising amount of freedom in the Unclean Realms. Whether it was because most of the disciples and staff still looked at him as a kid, or because Nie Huaisang allowed it as a side effect of their personal discussions, he didn't know.
But he wasn't going to complain about it right now.
His original intent had been to leave the box in Nie Huaisang's library or somewhere similar, but then he'd remembered That Room.
The one situated in the same hallway as the sect leader's room and Nie Huaisang's old room, that his shushu had indicated he'd lived in when he'd been part of the sect.
The one Jin Ling had never seen anyone else living in even when he was small, not even the current second in command.
Hoping he wasn't about to get himself in deep trouble for snooping, he tested the door latch and found it opened easily, as if it hadn't gathered any dust in the years since his shushu had left.
Carefully, he peeked inside.
Though most of the furniture was gone, a hefty three piece writing desk and a cabinet remained.
At first, he thought they'd been taken directly from his shushu's office, they were so similar. But as he looked closer, running his fingers over the wood, he found a few differences.
The beast head of Qinghe Nie adorned the drawer and door pulls, for one. The desk was missing the place where he'd accidentally nicked it with a toy sword. The spots where Rusong had tried to chew on the edge while teething weren't there.
This, he realized, must have been his shushu's desk and cabinet when he was still Meng Yao. A welcome gift from his sect leader and young master.
And Jin Guangyao had had it replicated more according to Lanling tastes when he'd moved.
Oh... things really had been complicated between them, hadn't they?
Curiosity overtook him, and he couldn't stop himself from looking in the drawers and cabinets one by one.
A hat that he couldn't bear to see for more than the time it took to open and then quickly shut the drawer. A set of finely made brushes. Some fresh notebooks. A set of beautifully-designed green and gold robes that had likely never been worn.
A painting of his shushu, looking younger and smiling brighter than Jin Ling had ever seen him.
Other bits and pieces he didn't understand the meanings of.
And, finally, a carved wooden box.
Jin Ling found himself relieved by that particular discovery, knowing immediately what had to be inside without even opening it. Taking the box he'd brought with him out of the pouch he'd stored it in, he carefully laid it down next to the one already there.
Then slipped out of the little mausoleum-of-sorts back to his room.
---
Jin Ling looked up from his breakfast to find Nie Huaisang staring at him over the rim of his teacup.
For a moment, he froze, afraid he was about to get laid into for his nighttime sneaking.
But Nie Huaisang merely tilted his head in acknowledgment, then went back to his tea.
And Jin Ling couldn't help but grin before taking his next bite.
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woobifiedvillain · 10 months
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I'm going to make a longer actual meta post about the various ways you could interpret NMJ seeming to "not notice" social details (quoting whatevers going on in the teacup scene amongst other instances) that would allow him to fully understand the ways JGY is being hurt.
Like I maintain there's so much more going on there than stupid sect leader NMJ doesn't understand being unable to stand up to harassment, just try harder buddy, and also "he's not a detail oriented person so he just misses it" is both true I think and simultaneously a wild oversimplification. But anyway.
Aside from that ball of thread it's a funny trait for him to have, the easiest explanation is that it's necessary for the plot. I'm not saying NMJ could have saved JGY, I'm not saying he wouldn't have (he likely. would have) actually made the situation worse in trying to help. But. You cannot convince me that no matter the issues between them, Nie - protective older brother (who's demonstrably willing to say fuck it to social expectations in the name of what he believes needs to happen to help/protect) - Mingjue would not have done something if he had been more aware of everything happening with JGY.
And yes JGY tells him directly that he can't go against his father, but, again it's complicated and there's more to it than NMJ being unempathetic or just stupid, fight me, but when JGY tells him "I can't go against my father's explicit orders" NMJ is not getting the nuance. He's interpreting it in a literal, subordinates can't go against their superiors type of way. Which is part of the truth! But unfortunately that's the part that for a variety of reasons makes him go "well they should because resisting corruption even from places of authority is a moral obligation", and there's again, again, there's complexity here but that's not the point. I'm not talking about how much NMJ understands the literal situation, where JGY cannot oppose his sect leader even if he wanted to. Actually I think saying NMJ doesn't get it would be incorrect bc the whole "just die" "just die for what's needed to keep people safe, that's what I'd do/what I am doing" but that's not the point.
The point is JGY cannot oppose JGS for two reasons, two different contexts. JGS is his sect leader/authority figure, but he is also his father!
Regardless of what you think of NMJs empathy for JGYs situation, the idea that JGY is a subordinate in a compromised political position is 1- straightforward and 2- told to him explicitly. NMJ is not a man incapable of understanding obvious literal power dynamics when explained to him, that doesn't make any sense, that's not what's going on, mainly. That's not the misunderstanding that fucks everything up is what I mean.
That's a disagreement, that's an argument between them, about "should you oppose authority at the cost of your own life" "who has the social backing to oppose corruption" "is the ability to do something w relative safety a necessary component in being obligated to do it" - and again that's a long ass thing I'm not going into rn or talking about who's right.
The part NMJ doesn't seem to see at all, is that JGY isn't inherently loyal to his superiors (or he does know JGY is willing to betray superiors and so is frustrated/confused by his refusal to do so *this time*), he's loyal to his dad. He's being filial.
And while there's a lot of ways you could interpret NMJs knowledge of political and class hierarchy. I maintain in the end we do not really know the extent of it, but also, he knows more than he seems to- he understands he just disagrees and has his own hangups about that which are influenced by his status but more so his value of his own life (he doesn't. see it as something that's an issue to give up) - NMJ doesn't have the understanding/context for JGYs fielty specifically.
I'm not commenting on whether he should that's again not the point. Because the idea of filial piety, which JGY is following, puts him in a position where his dad can hurt him and JGY still has to be loyal. I've seen other people explain that in better detail and it's not my place so I'm not going into it more. (I am however. Having feelings about him thanking NMJ for the "lesson" after being kicked down the stairs and the *implications* that has for how he sees NMJ in that moment, the ingrained response that's probably mirroring).
NMJ, sir not giving a fuck about social expectations when it suits him, would not see JGY being hurt by his father in the context of abuse within a family, and go, oh well he's your dad you gotta be loyal. On one hand this is my interpretation but also. I feel like it's not contradicted by the text? He clearly thinks people should be able to go against authority when it's corrupt, and, as an older brother himself, generally wants to protect NHS.
And yes he's harsh on him and yes there's the fans scene but listen he's been raising him since he was what 13? And someone was paying for those fans before JGY came in to buy them is all I'm saying. Someone was letting NHS not practice saber and giving into his little schemes and then going ok but you just practice tomorrow or I'll break your legs (something that never demonstrably happens). Someone loves indulging their little brother and feels like he *needs* to prepare NHS to be sect leader (and, given, the family history,,,, he does,,,) but that's not the same as *wanting* to. And the fact that NHS gets out of practice so consistently and has a large collection of art and keeps up the uwu I'm babey technique to this day, shows that, it's been working.
Listen. NMJ wants to seem like a strict older brother, sometimes, and parentification bad, too much responsibility complicated. But. He is at his core overprotective and wants to indulge NHS because he wants him to be safe from everything he's had to deal with. Then he'll turn around and panic about NHS not being prepared for the world. Does he fail? Perhaps. But what he wants to do is protect and indulge, and his shittiest moments come out of "must protect" winning out when the two contradict, because part of protecting NHS is ensuring he's prepared for the world when NMJ is gone, and NHS doesn't seem prepared.
So JGY not only looks like NHS and is similar in. Snakely tendencies though different also and idk how much NMJ is aware of that but. JGY is also his younger sworn brother. Parallels parallels. Point is, NMJ, for whatever reason, not picking up on subtle social cues that lead him to seeing JGY being harassed is necessary for the plot, bc NMJ has not been established as someone who will sit by and watch people he feels are "his" be hurt. Whether that's justified or well meaning or whatever is not the point. The Wen being an exception actually supports this, because they are not his people, have never been his people, since he was young. They're exclusively the threat to everything he wants to protect, and that goes deep.
The fact that JGY hides the details of what's going on for understandable reasons (I cannot emphasize how much I'm not blaming him for any of this) is also important. NMJ is one to act swiftly when he thinks he knows something, but, he's a literal guy. Can't act swiftly if you don't even realize there's an act needing to happen.
The Jin are not *literal* people, lmao. Gossip is not *logical*, nothing about the main threats to JGY are straightforward.
One of NMJs biggest issues is. Well gossip isn't true though so why does it matter. Not like. Him saying you shouldn't be hurt by it, or being incapable of understanding it's effects, he sees them, he just doesn't get. Why people do it. How they do it. How it works, really.
Am I projecting the autism. Maybe a little. But seriously "I know this is a thing but I don't understand how it works on a fundamental level and I can't pick up on it unless it's pointed out to me explicitly" is a fucking mood, and part of why I'm so adamant that it's not the same thing as "I don't believe anyone would be hurt by this" it's "look I believe you in theory it's just frustrating because I've never seen what you're talking about so idk what to do in response", his advice on responding to harassment just sucks bc he doesn't know how to deal with implication because he doesn't catch it most of the time. He's described as not noticing, which is not the same as not caring or being unable to understand.
What was my point again? Oh yes. This is a character trait necessary for the plot, because, if NMJ had seen the full extent of what was being done to JGY he would have entered older brother rage mode and started killing people. Possibly JGS, depending on what he found out and how much at once and where he was at the time. NMJ is very much a character who operates based on what should be true (at the expense of what is true, sometimes), but he does that because he is motivated by the desire to make things be true. With his saber.
So while he doesn't understand the intricacies of why JGY isn't safe, he thinks he should be safe, and clearly cares about the people he feels protective of being made safe, fuck the consequences and fuck social norms especially.
And while yes a lot of this depends on where in the timeline we are exactly and maybe what canon you're using. I tend to go with the stairs scene as them both giving up on each other.
BUT. Until then. NMJ trying to kill JGY, or getting mad at him, or telling him to surrender himself =/= giving up on him. It's fucked up, yeah, but he's "trying to make things right" in his own absolutely unhinged way [affectionate] so I don't actually think NMJ ever stopped counting JGY as one of his people. It might have been better if he had. But I don't think his actions show that.
Which is why I think NMJ sort of had to be a massive autism mood for the sake of plot. Bc again, LXC is from a similar background so it doesn't make sense for the extent of NMJs not seeing stuff to be based on that alone. There's a lot of possibile interpretations as to why they're different, and I'm down for those, but I think at least some of it's just. Temperament. Personality. Some people are not great at noticing when they themselves or others are being made fun of subtly, and that's not. The same as being like yeah I'm cool w you being made fun of in front of me. I'm not going to intervene bc it'll make you stronger. Even if it can be perceived as such. (How much can op speak from personal experience, the post)
This necessity to the plot is even more true when you consider the possibility of NMJ finding out JGS told JGY to kill him. Is there a chance he would have lashed out at JGY? Absolutely! But, is there also a (significant) chance he would have been able to stop for a second, realize the context, and go how dare your dad use you like this, I fucking hate JGS anyway, I knew he was an ass but not this much, the audacity, oh hey wait I can kill him for this - brb gonna go publicly challenge your dad to a fight to the death -
Because ultimately for better or worse, whether it would have solved problems or (probably) the opposite, NMJ counts JGY as one of the people he's responsible for. And he kills to protect the people he's responsible for, he's overprotective and quick to act, and very willing to forsake propriety and ignore hierarchy in the name of said protectiveness. Sure JGS is head cultivator. So was WRH. Tough shit. The Jin abuse JGY in ways NMJ can comprehend? Saber time. (I am reading this in the style of the "you KICK Miette???" meme except it's NMJ for example seeing MY being kicked down the stairs the first time and going "You kick him??? You kick your son like football??? Murder!!! Death for JGS!!").
Anyways this is a ramble I'm sorry for the length. Point is NMJ needed to be a little socially blind (and also die relatively early in the timeline) bc if he wasn't, the older brother fury would have fucked up half the nobility and there wouldn't have been a book. Not saying everything would have been peachy but there would be way less to work with. This is both tragic and hilarious.
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mostlikelytofangirl · 2 years
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Is Nie Mingjue a heavily misunderstood character or not ? Sorry my question is a little bit vague .
Don't worry, I think I know what you mean ^^
Now, I wouldn't say that he is heavily misunderstood bc, for starters, he's not that popular a character (which personally hurts my soul bc I love him So Much), and secondly, we aren't given a lot about him in canon. At face value, at least.
That's not to say that he isn't misundertood, but I'd argue that it is more of a... simplification of his character. It's very easy to see him and fall for just the gruff, angry man whose entire personality is shouting and Saber and Killing Wens. Mxtx herself presented him as such in a way, when telling us how JGY couldn't find anything to use against him, bc well... those things previously mentioned were all there was, apparently.
But I think that, just with the man himself, there's a lot more we can get by looking at his actions than with what the story tells us directly.
He loves his brother, thats's one thing. Confirmed by the author even. And I have to state this bc I have seen ppl call him abusive bc of how he treats NHS, but we have to see things from his perspective. This is a man who knows he is going to die young, who had to step up and be a sect leader and guardian to his brother when he was still a teen. Who had to be diplomatic with the man who killed his father and all the other leaders who did nothing about it (if they even believed him). Is it really so surprising that he wouldn't waste time in anything other than becoming the strongest the can be and preparing his brother to succeed him? A little brother that, to him, is not even trying to get involved or help with what could very easily be his entire responsibility one day.
(Also the fact that you don't go on a decade long revenge plot for a brother you don't love. So yeah, Niebros loved each other, you can't change my mind).
He didn't try to get married and have his own descendants after the war bc I think it would have been obvious to him by then that he cultivated too much, he accelerated the inevitable and leaving a widow and a small child would have only been extra responsibility to NHS.
And yet he tried to get better. He let the man he didn't trust anymore treat his terminal illness bc he didn't lose hope that he could at least buy himself some more time to prepare NHS and protect the Unclean Realm bc the world post-SSC was still very much fucked up and in JGS' hands and (again) no one else seemed to care.
NMJ had one of the strongest moral codes of the entire cast, so much so that it would be easy to call it black and white, but damn if that at least made him one of the very few characters you would always know where you stood with. He was as reliable as they come.
Of course, he was far from perfect. He had his biases and even his privilege blinding him to some extent. Like his determination to wipe out all the Wen, regardless of their involvement or lack thereof in the war. Just bc he would have rather die fighting than staying in his line and survive and help as he could, doesn't mean everybody else would or even should have. As rightful and honorable as he is, he is also convinced that there is only one way to do things right and I think we can all agree that that is objectively incorrect, if at least more commendable than not doing anything at all.
In the end, I definitely think that there is more to NMJ than meets the eye. He was a paladin of justice and tried his best to uphold it according to the standards of society. He was brave to the point of it costing it his life bc he refused to give in to JGS' unilaterally decided reign, and was actively the only significant political opposition the Jin had post-war. He dedicated all he had to his sect and his brother even if his interpersonal skills didn't allow for better communication there. He was willing to give the benefit of the doubt to someone who made all the alarms go off in his head bc of what he meant to him in the past and what he meant to LXC in the present. He was there to defend anyone with a righteous claim like the Chang clan when literally no one else cared. And all this while dealing with a degenerative and debilitating mental illness he couldn't let anyone outside of his circle know of.
He was one of the strongest, most honest characters. Not without his flaws, but a better person than many others, and I fully support how avenging him is literally the backbone of the entire story and the reason we have mdzs in the first place.
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