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monstersinthecosmos · 2 years

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Anne Rice's books are filled with morally dubious concepts and toxic relationships, I thought everyone that is fan would be so because of that. But scrolling through the tag I find people claiming to be fans but only of the wholesome parts, which are almost nothing?? Anne Rice is not wholesome in the slightest. I don't know, it feels lonely. And also I see the TV show isn't willing to engage with the horror and complexity of these books neither, which, makes me see the vampire chronicles isn't really meant to be brought to this medium. I don't know why I am dumping this on you but I feel like you would understand somehow. Please ignore if not, I don't want to offend you.

Lmao I’m not offended, hello! I am, however, about to talk way too much bc I haven't changed in the years since I've haunted tunglr dot com so I apologize for that

TLDR: Be a freak, don't let anyone make you feel bad, I hope the show isn't too wholesome.

I’ve been in and out of this fandom for like, literally twenty years 👵🏻 so being completely honest I have always seen a wide range of fans on the spectrum of HAPPILY ENJOYING IN BLISS to ONLY INTERESTED IN CRITICISM and like that’s such a personal, subjective choice of whatever everyone finds fun in their free time. I’ve also, in twenty years, been on both ends of the spectrum, and I even fully swore AR off for a few years at one point bc I was so mad at her lol, but IM BACK BAYBEE and to me idk it’s not fun to take things so seriously all the time. That’s just me though!

I do think there’s been a huge shift in fandom culture (particularly on Tumblr) in the last 10 years or so that prioritizes moral critiques of canon; it’s not just VC, I see this in a lot of fandoms, and I think it’s been more amplified since the Adult Content Ban bc, surprise!, a lot of adults left the site lol. I think we’re living in a culture right now that’s very focused on respectability politics and there’s obviously a huge push in the mainstream to censor and control transgressive media (especially queer fiction), and it doesn’t surprise me that this has influenced younger fans because it’s a culture we are steeped in at all times, even when they try to identify as progressive. But don’t think that the broader wave of censorship right now isn’t connected to the way conservatives are beginning to skew the conversations in fandom spaces, too. Fandom is a microcosm of what’s happening outside! And there are all types of ideas and stigmas that we get inundated with in the world, without our consent, because it’s the space we all occupy.

Having said all that LOL. All these types of fans exist and sometimes you have to just read the room and find your people. Some people’s enjoyment of the books is conditional, ie: cherrypicking what we liked about them and celebrating just those parts. Especially because I think so many of us read the books young and didn’t think too hard about it; we can agree that Anne’s writing was seductive and we were all probably baby queer weirdos who felt seen or w/e. And I think it’s normal that a lot of us have grown up and looked back at some of the stuff in the books like “oh yikes lol”

But everyone has different ways to navigate those feelings. I personally don’t have a problem compartmentalizing and just enjoying myself. I don’t take fiction morals very seriously and I enjoy the thought exercise of putting myself in imaginary dark places. Not everyone can flip that on and off and separate fiction from reality so easily, so ur milage may vary. I’m also someone who supports the idea of using fiction as a staging area for sexuality, and using fiction imo is a great way to play. Not everybody feels that way and for some people, the fun of playing in fandom is to play with the canon in a transformative way to see how to “fix” it or to rearrange it in a way that is less nauseating. I think there’s a culture in spaces like Tumblr to feel you need to repent for your fiction sins, and not everyone can sit with the guilt of accidentally enjoying amorality in fiction. And like I’m sure there are fans who read IWTV at 13 and Loustat is just so deeply embedded in them that they simply cannot exit the train at this point, and they're doing what they can with the scraps to ease that discomfort.

And I mean, good for them, if it helps them enjoy their time on this fucking germy ass planet!!!!!! That’s very fun, happy 4 u guys lol.

There is also 1000000% Nothing Wrong with blissfully enjoying all the evil and trash. It is perfectly safe and extremely normal. You just need to find your people, and sometimes it is hard and it does feel lonely. I'm with you, though. I'm here to enjoy the evil bullshit and revel in it LOL. There's literally nothing in the series that is wholesome except for Mojo.

To be honest, I’m not into Loustat at all. And not in a morally superior way—they don’t really do it for me but also Lestat reminds me waaaaaaaay too much of my abuser and Louis reminds me way too much of myself when I was stuck in that relationship. It isn’t fun for me to engage with Loustat content because I tend to only see the manipulation and gaslighting when I look at it, and for me personally it’s juuuuuuust a bit too close to the reality I lived through. I would argue that my OTP Armand/Daniel is the most toxic ship in VC but I was never kidnapped by a vampire or stalked across the globe while being literally addicted to his body fluid so yknow, that don’t bother me. =P But it’s 100% normal to look at canon toxic ships and play in the sandbox to either “fix” them or to like, take control of the narrative and allow yourself some catharsis by digging into it in a safe imaginary space. When I have the chance I like to mAkE thEM WORSE

So it’s been occurring to me when I see the enthusiasm of these fans for the show that perhaps they don’t particularly like canon to begin with? So changing it this drastically isn’t an issue to them? I’m sure everyone has their own reasons and I don’t want to generalize. On the issue of Claudia, for example: I think she is an intrinsic part of the plot and drives very profound feminist messages in the book, and I think her being a small child is absolutely essential to that story. I recognize that there are morally reprehensible moments in text regarding her and to me I’m like GOOD, IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE GROSS. It’s supposed to be gross!!!! It’s a horror novel!!!!!! And Anne Rice was a writer who wanted to always talk about the full spectrum of human emotion, including sexual emotion, so having sexual themes intertwined with the horror was completely on purpose!

Then you see some people who ONLY see that it’s gross and can’t connect with the full scope of her story because it’s too uncomfortable. And like, you do you bestie! Curate that experience for yourself! Have boundaries and love yourself enough to stay safe!!! But I do think it’s wild the amount of complaints I’ve seen about Claudia, for example, which strike me as particularly ironic because it’s almost meta in the way they’ve embodied the entire reason her character is tragic. People infantilizing Claudia as a character, unable to engage with the topic of her at all, is exactly the reason she’s a tragedy in canon, because she can be as old as she wants and people will always see her as a child. D:

As far as the TV show goes lol.

Being fair, I don’t think we know enough yet to know how evil & problematic they’re going to be. LMAO. I hope it’s like unhinged gaslighting abusive romance bc like, WHAT ARE YOU WASTING OUR TIME FOR IF NOT? But I always have found it funny when you see people who seem to otherwise hate everything problematic in VC somehow cape for Loustat as if it’s any different from the other ships. 😂

My concerns at this moment are that the way they changed Claudia is a huge red flag to me about whether or not they will engage in the problematic elements, and I’m not thrilled that RJ says the rest of the books give you a better picture of Lestat than just IWTV, because I disagree. Like, hearing from his own voice definitely allows us to know his sense of humor and we can see he’s a bi disaster, but he’s already CHARMING in IWTV. Louis falls for his shit because he’s charming. So I don’t think we need to know that he considers himself faultless for him to have a fuller portrayal on the show.

Like, I hope the show portrays them as being an abusive ship and shows all the nuance that it deserves, but RJ’s comments reminded me of the binary we see over and over in VC fandom about trying to get to the bottom about WHICH ONE OF THEM WAS LYING. (And it was Lestat, imo LOL he’s told on himself many many times.) So claiming IWTV is an incomplete portrayal of him makes me wonder if RJ comprehended that Lestat is a charming manipulator who abuses everyone in his life LOL. And ESPECIALLY with the time shift + age difference I think this puts them in a very different context. A Lestat who is turned in his 30s with a fully baked prefrontal cortex is going to have a very different temperament from canon Lestat, and even moreso when we understand he’s not a traumatized, freshly-bereaved fledgling anymore but like OVER A CENTURY OLD LMAO so like, he’s had time to calm down and gain some wisdom and that would have to make such a huge difference on the level of coercion. (That’s another red flag for me too is that RJ goes “no no we just changed a couple little things !” and the things he changed are like HUGE??????? So him saying that makes me skeptical again about the nuance of the abuse here.)

I also have some concerns bc some of the show’s team has worked on other titles that were about toxic male antiheros and there are definitely moments in those shows where you can’t tell if the writers are aware of themselves. IE: Tony Soprano is a racist bad guy who kills people and cheats on his wife, and yet there are still occasional narratives on The Sopranos that show the creators also had some of those same biases, and you must wonder if some of Tony’s actions or behavior weren’t intended to be catalogued in the ways he’s very evil.

So looking at the way they’re speaking about Lestat’s characterization, that they’re referring to it as a romance, and some of the patterns in their other work I do have concerns about how the abuse will be portrayed. I also worry about how the abuse will play on screen now that there is an added racial element, and if it will be too cruel or edge into messages that feel too real and hurtful to the audience. And, to circle back lmao, I’m not uncomfortable with objectionable morals in my fiction, but, some nuance would be good.

Don’t get me wrong like I hope the ship on the TV show is like ABUSIVE and SEXY and I hope Louis is like HORNY and TRAPPED because he knows he should leave but he CANNOT! And I want there to be some steamy frustrated hatesex! And huge fights and makeup sex! LOL. But yeah I mean, pretending that Loustat is wholesome is a complete joke, and I really really hope that the show doesn’t misunderstand Loustat to a point where they aren’t aware of what they’re really portraying. LET THE STORY BE ABUSIVE BUT PLEASE BE AWARE OF YOURSELF!

(Anne could have used this advice too in the second half of the series LMAO whoops but I think having that nuance would ultimately make these stories even richer. HERE I AM COMPLAINING ABOUT CANON NONCOMPLIANCE EXCEPT MAKING AN EXTREMELY UNAWARE PORTRAYAL OF ABUSE IS COMPLETELY CANON, my bad.)

And basically like. If it’s not going to be those things I’m just back to wondering why they wanted to adapt this book? So far the only thing in common with canon is like… New Orleans???? An interview of some type will take place? They have the same names?

So it’s hard to hear the team talk about how respectful they are of the book when…. They’re not keeping anything from the book? LOL. What exactly did you see in this story that you wanted to express? I don’t get it. 😂 And I would hate for a book about morally dubious characters and abusive romances to be like, a campy vampire romance without any of those questions and themes.

I’m not saying any of this to nitpick or be needlessly negative; I’m saying it to say it’s some of the things I’ve been wondering and some of the clues I’ve been looking for during the past year to see what exactly is going on with this show LOL. Again, I don’t think the trailer told us enough to know. I’ve been critical and looking for these things and genuinely don’t have a solid opinion yet because I haven’t gotten enough information. Lestat is certainly being extremely predatory and he looks unhinged as fuck so that’s a good sign LMAO. Louis even refers to it in the voiceover as being “hunted”, so it’s nice to know that he feels that way with 100 years of perspective. But we’ll have to wait and see!

I think at this point I’m really hoping for like HANNIBAL LEVEL fuckery and like that type of unhinged gaslighting and manipulation LOL and I think Hannibal was about as far from canon as VCTV looks so far. I’m just doing my best to compartmentalize and be fair about the show while also acknowledging my extremely deep disappointment that we waited 5 years for WOLFKILLER STUFF AND NICKI only to be given an AU fanfic lol. And like, I give Hannibal a bit of a pass because by the time that show came out there had already been like 5 movies made of that franchise and they were mostly faithful so like at that point the idea had already been explored and it was time to remix. I don’t feel VC has ever gotten that shot yet so it’s sad that they went straight for a remix :(

anyway sorry, I disappeared off tumblr for years but I apparently still answer anons with exceedingly meandering essays, I have no idea if this answered what you were asking but LOL YOLO ✌️

#having slept on this #i also want to add that in case this wasn't clear:#TLDR there is room for everyone #be kind and find your people #fandom is not a finite space #it's like Clifford #it wlil get bigger and bigger if you keep loving it!!!!! LOL #make stuff!!!!

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chigusaeyes · 1 year

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was tagged back by @altairring for the fandom character meme

you know how to choose them 😘

putting things under a cut~

I'll go in Reverse Order & start with Clavis ~!

I haven't paid any attention to the cesspool of self-righteous idiocacy that makes up the majority of Otoge Fandoms on Tunglr dot com, only my dear moots & the few gems I have found along the way, but I am slamming my hand down right now & declaring with confidence that the fandom at large is Probably Most Definitely wrong about him.

About what exactly? Idk I just came out swinging bc Have you met him? Yeah. I mean, I did choose 'no.' for a reason and that reason is that I clocked him as someone who is going to give me Problems & I won't be able to stop myself from loving him anyways.

Clavis, Clavis, Clavis...we have a salad spinner that we call "Nikos's Boyfriend" bc Nikos is very attached to it? He likes to try laying atop it. Idk, cats, yanno? But were I able, I would throw Clavis into Nikos's Boyfriend and spin him in there with all the love in the world.

He's a poster child for Local Clown Actually Broken Inside. P clear him & all his brothers are traumatized on some level, it comes with the...everything. Refined for each of them.

Anyways, he's the most refined mess out there and I love him. And his beauty marks. Plus his color is purple and BINCH ME TOO.

And onto Saizo.

Saizo's a fuckin' binch and I love him, I do, but oh my god do I want to SQUEAK him. Playing his route is half me going AHHHH & half me going GDI Saizo Why Can't I Quit You (This is Why I Can't Quit You ).

The Cold Asshole trope isn't my preferrence honestly, as I'm not usually into beating my head against a wall. Talk about a man loaded with trauma. But the glimpses behind The Wall that Saizo has up before he finally opens up a bit to the MC always keep me hanging on. And then the side stories etc that are post-opening up etc make me forget how much of an ass he's been. Which is the point, I think.

I say this with wry affection bc imo, Saizo is like...the fave that doesn't need to be mentioned as your fave unless you gun for Saizo and Saizo alone. Bc just abt everyone has a soft spot for him, in my experience. Not always, but it's a thing yanno?

Also him & Yukkins will never not be one of my fave combos of all time. I deeply enjoy Saizo's commentary on any+everyone else. ESPECIALLY Nobuyuki.

And speaking of Nobuyuki...

Nobuyuki is probably definitely one of my favorite Genuinely Dangerous romance/love interests of all times in a game. The Gentle Yandere is probably definitely the most sinister & dangerous of the yandere archetype.

( Not to be mistaken for the yangire, who is the "if I can't have you, I will kill you" ( vs the Classique yandere tactic of imprisonment and/or isolation ), who is arguably the most dangerous any of the Obsessive (yan-) archetypes, if only bc you're Way more likely to just fuckin' die. )

Boy I really know how to choose them huh.

( In fairness to myself - tho this Really Needn't Be Said - Nobuyuki is my favorite LI who I would Never actually want to be with irl. )

Anyways.

The psychological power of the gentle yan is so dangerous bc it gives the illusion of free will & choice, without realizing your stage has been effectively set up around you. It takes an enormous amount of interpersonal skill via manipulation & tactics, etc, to do as such too. Especially without revealing his hand. He doesn't need to lock the one he decides he wants to be with up, bc she willingly walks into the cage and locks herself in there of her own fkn volition. Brilliant, I love him So Much, he's terrible and wonderful all at the same time.

There's always going to be a power differential between Buyan and his wife & it's not for everyone's fictional preference, but it certainly is for mine. Or at least my MC-OC, gdi. Plus there are ways in which the MC proves herself to be a capable wife that Buyan respects & actively adores.

Honestly, it's those positive feelings that make him so dangerous, bc this is a man used to sacrificing aspects of himself & his own desires for the sake of his clan. And the fact that he meets someone he actually develops feelings for & gets to keep her? Oh boy. She ends up being a cage for him to put his heart into while she locks herself into a cage of his making.

Ahhh, Nobuyuki let me count the ways...between the Gentle Yan aspects, his tender smile, willingness to sacrifice his personal honor & morals for the greater good of the family ( and skill in never revealing this ), and weight upon his heart in trying to keep Yukimura safe in whatever few ways he can...seriously I love him so much.

Is Nobuyuki good? Well, he's a dutiful son & a doting maternal brother figure & a very wise leader who values his people and hearing their input. And he'll use people as he needs in order to ensure the safety and longevity of his family and their land + the people under their rule. So like. Good by what definition? WHOSE definition?

If you asked Nobuyuki if he was "good", he'd probably laugh in that soft way of his and ask what makes someone Good, before likely saying that Yukkins is the pinnacle of Goodness by the Sanada standards or something. Just rip my heart out and stomp on it, huh?

All of this is to say that while thankfully many ppl have already spoken on Buyan & how wonderfully complex he is & helped spread recognition of that...I'm, as always, very confident that there are plenty of Wrong People out there - be it due to comprehensive or critical thinking issues.

I want to put him in a salad spinner until he finally lets some goddamn tears out. I've humored ( read: hurt ) myself thinking about Nobuyuki & his Wifey MC during Yukkins's funerary process etc and the sheer grief of it all for EVERYONE involved and I hate it SO MUCH. Hate hate hate HATE. But it's also an inevitably, so fuck it, have THAT be a part of a 2nd Season for Nobuyuki, Voltage, don't be cowards---

🥲

No seriously, Nobuyuki makes me think SO MUCH, too much really, and I just. Wanna eat my whole fist. When I think abt him. I haven't opened the app in literal ages ( on one hand, it's practical, on the other hand, I missed his bday stuff Again so fuck me right? ), but I still---I mean! *waves hands at my url* I still!!!

Also that sexy scene of his where he instructs MC to meet his eyes before he will Initiate Physical Consummation of their Relationship & then having her keep her eyes locked with his during, etc? Boy that still gets me a-flustered if only bc like. Just looking AT someone during sex can be difficult at times, but maintaining eye contact?

Actually did u kno that apparently, accordingly, staring your partner in the eyes while kissing them helps to build + strengthen intimacy? I'll fuckin' say. Buyan seems like the type who would enjoy that too, what a Gigacha--- 🤣

I could keep going but seriously I love Nobuyuki and people can pull him from my cold, dead hands.

#kae's meme tag #kae speaks tag #altairring

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alukaforyou · 6 years

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do u just overthink a lil and get into a bood but then all ur other unrelated bad feels resurface for no reason and coalesce into one xxl BOOD like ya..

but then u dont even physically feel negative emotions anymore cuz ur dissociating(?) for the most part loool omg im just laughing @ myself here yall 😂

well anyways i changed my mind, that vague one liner post was not, in fact, Enough so im just gonna release all my boods into the void™ that is tunglr dot com :^)

can someone like,, idk maybe end my mcfreakin life perhaps, question mark,,,,,, asking for a friend LMFAO 😂

so guess whos in a sad art spot again? me, but when am i not lmfao @ god can i please draw one(1) good thing every now and then c’mon throw me a bone here.. haha i mcfreakin h8 complaining abt art online cuz i sound like such a dumbass piss baby/ingrate/FOOL but what can i do i rly h8 it sometimes lol how does it feel like to be satisfied w what u make? who is she god i wish i were that me id love to experience it some day lol mMMmMMM i need to work harder :3c~~

ok but nvm that its not even my Main Issue rn cuz the real Main Issue is that i am a fool & i wish i could rewire my brain or smth cuz!!!!! y!!!! do!! i!! keep!!! having illogical bad!! thoughts!!! like for ex: “wow u r so fun n cool i am glad we met :^)” me @ me: ok she hates u n this is fake also u should never speak to her again LMAO BOOD x100 send help :’^) also, major shout out to every1 who has ever talked 2 me first cuz im a scurred lil shit and my friendship initiating skills r -13546840

but like also,.. ALSO, on the flip side i love it when no1 talks to me and i dont have to talk to any1 else either i just love being left alone lol thanks what a RELIEF,, which is like rly lame and sad cuz then u dont make MORE friends and ah :^( science explain y i am like This. (btw not rly applicable to online friends cuz idk its not as scary i think hm but the problem w online friends is that im especially busy during the school yr n dont have time to live chat a lot so im sry if i go mia for like MONTHS aaaa yikes)

also im stressed tf out cuz i havent studied japanese properly in like A WEEK or MORE so wtf @ myself feels sbad i could b studying rn but noo im just marinating in bad feels

but like going back to that one other Point, im just gonna write this out in kr cuz 1. practice and 2. im assuming most of my friends here dont speak/read kr so i would b embarrassing myself less but then again maybe not cuz who knos wat kind of atrocious errors i’d make lmao im like,, not even that Bad at it but im always paranoid AF whenever i have to publicly write anything in a lang other than eng aeklrjnkaeljr rip me

왜, 그러니까, 친한 친구들끼리 장난으로 '아 나너 진짜 싫어,' '저리가' 뭐 이런 말 하잖아요?? 최근에 사귄 친구들이 그런 표현을 쓸데, 어쩔땐 장난인지 아닌지 잘 모르겠네요.... 당연히 장난으로 하는 농 같지만 생각하면 생각할스로 '아, 얘 나 진짜 싫어한가봐' 라는 불쾌한 생각들이 자꾸 마음에 걸리적거리내요. 아니, 진짜 싫다면 만나고 함께 시간을 보내지 않겠지요???? 싫으면 시집가!!!ㅋㅋㅋ 같이 있는 것만으로도 '우리 친구하자' 라는 의미 아니겠습니까?? 그럼에도 불구하고 왜 자꾸 이런 재수없는 생각들이????????? 저 완전 바보 아닙니까?ㅋㅠㅠㅠㅠㅠㅠ 오랫동안 알고 있었던 친구들이랑은 이런 생각이 안드는데,,,요새 학교에서만난 친구들이랑 있을 때 마다 왠지 좀 불안합니다......

omg i have more to say but TO BE CONTINUED LATER also i tried putting that whole thing into google translate just to see how it’d come out and its so wrong, oh god, SO WRONG do not google translate that pls lmfao

#lmao sry i dont want to fill up everyones dash w an unrelated long post so its under the cut im assuming ppl dont rly look at this kinda #stuff so ima just list my grievances without restraint HAHA #also 싫으면 시집가 is a set expression omfg goog trans makes it sound like im actually talking about getting married im screaming #apparently i have no long term friends & go to FORT SCHOOL whatever that means #.txt

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