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friendofcars · 4 months

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Hello! Here is data on point of view distribution across characters in The Dreamer Trilogy (which I will abbreviate as TD3) as a follow up to my TRC data from last year (viewable here). A rather long-winded discussion of the data, methods notes, and some supplemental figures and tables are under the cut. As it was not possible to include all values and stats in this post (nor in the alt text for image IDs), my spreadsheet can be viewed by clicking here,

This project quantifies and visualizes the distribution of chapters and pages in the books of TD3 across characters from whose POVs the story is told. I didn’t have much of a hypothesis going into data collection/analysis, especially not like I did for the TRC data, but I did expect to see Ronan’s POV having the most chapters and pages for the entire series, given the fact that he is the most central of the protagonists. I don’t think page time is the be-all-end-all for a character’s importance, of course, but it is still interesting to consider how spending more time from certain perspectives affects the perceived narrative. I won’t get much into that aspect of analysis in this post, but if anybody would actually like to discuss that, I’d love to!

Results (and Interpretation):

TD3 consists of 173 chapters and 1184 pages (using the U.S. hardcover editions), making the average chapter 6.84 pages. The longest chapter is 16 pages, and the shortest is 1 page.

Figure 1A: The average chapter in Mister Impossible (MI) is considerably longer (9.26 pages) than the average chapter in Call Down the Hawk (CDTH) (6.00 pages) and in Greywaren (GW) (6.40 pages), which makes sense as MI has just 38 chapters while CDTH has 80 and GW has 55 (see Fig. 2). To me, the effect of the longer chapters (and therefore extended time with the current POV character) makes the various POVs feel more temporally distant from one another- not in a narratively incoherent way, but in a way that echoes the sense of isolation experienced by dreamers and weaponized by Bryde as he tries to convince Ronan and Hennessy to abandon their loved ones.

Figure 1B: Chapter length is fairly consistent amongst POVs across the series. Matthew has the longest average chapter length (8.40 page) over a small set of chapters (5 total)- his character development (as told from his own POV) is limited to a small number of instances, which may have stretched his chapters a bit longer. The 'Other' category has the shortest average chapter length (5.13 pages) (Fig. 1B); it includes the typically short chapters from witnesses of Visionary explosions/aftermath (Mags, Dabney) as well as Nathan's manifesto excerpts. (As a side note, I've described the chapters depicting memories from the Barns as 'Mór and Niall.' These chapters do not collectively portray an equal balance of their POVs, but this was the simplest way to categorize them.)

Figure 2A-B: These graphs are representations of chapter distribution across POVs in TD3 in terms of chapter count (2A) and proportion of total chapters (2B). Some observed trends include Declan's proportion of total chapters remaining quite constant throughout the series, Ronan's decreasing, Hennessy's proportion of chapters nearly doubling from CDTH to MI (and staying at a similar proportion to MI in GW), and Jordan's proportion following an opposite trend (consistent proportion in CDTH and MI, followed by a more than 50% drop in GW). Carmen's proportion of chapters also declines after CDTH.

Figure 2C: This graph compares total chapters per character POV over the entire series. We can see that the largest proportion of the series is told from Ronan's POV (53 chapters, or 0.306 of all chapters). To put that in perspective, Hennessy has the next highest number of chapters (26, or 0.150 of all chapters), which is just under half the number of Ronan's. If all characters had an equal number of chapters from their POV (including the miscellaneous POVs as one category labeled Other), they would each have 21.6 chapters, represented by the horizontal dashed line; Declan, Jordan, Carmen, and Hennessy all have chapter counts relatively close to this number.

Figure 2D-E: These are representations of page distribution across POVs in TD3 in terms of page count (2D) and proportion of total pages (2E). Trends are similar to those depicted in 2A-B, but 2E does make Declan's increased proportion of page time in GW salient.

Figure 2F: This graph compares total pages per character POV over the entire series. The dashed line shows that if each character (plus the Other category) had equal page time in the series, readers would spend 148 pages with each POV. Again, page data is similar to chapter data, but comparing graphs 2C and 2F gives a clear visual indicator that Jordan's chapters (on average, 8.11 pages) are longer than Carmen's (on average, 6.08 pages), since Carmen has visibly more chapters in 2C yet nearly the same number of pages as Jordan in 2F.

Figure 3: Figure 3 shows distribution of chapters (3A-B) and pages (3C-D) in CDTH, as well as average chapter length for each character POV (3E). An equal distribution of chapters would have been 13.3 per character, and an equal distribution of pages would have been 80.0 per character. The 'Other' category included chapters from the perspectives of Lock, Breck Myrtle, Shawna Wells, Jason Morgenthaler (and Lin Draper, briefly, in the same chapter), Mags Harmonhouse, and Dabney Pitts. Carmen's average chapter length in CDTH (4.67 pages) is the lowest single-book average for character POVs appearing throughout the entire series. (Nathan's average chapter length is just 1.00 [Supplemental Figure 2], yet his POV only appears in GW via his manifesto excerpts, and while I have attributed these chapters to his POV, I interpret the POV as actually ambiguous. As with Kavinsky's text in TDT, it's not absolutely certain if we are reading from the writer or the reader's perspective [although in TDT, due to the lack of Kavinsky POV elsewhere, it's probably the latter]).

Figure 4: Figure 4 shows distribution of chapters (4A-B) and pages (4C-D) in MI, as well as average chapter length for each character POV (4E). An equal distribution of chapters would have been 5.43 per character, and an equal distribution of pages would have been 50.3 per character. The 'Other' category included two chapters, both with what I deemed omniscient narration. Declan had the shortest chapters in MI (8.20 pages), and Jordan had the longest (11.4 pages, the longest average for a character for a single book in this series).

Figure 5: Figure 5 shows distribution of chapters (4A-B) and pages (4C-D) in GW, as well as average chapter length for each character POV (4E). An equal distribution of chapters would have been 6.88 per character, and an equal distribution of pages would have been 44.0 per character. The 'Other' category included Nathan's manifesto excerpts (3 chapters), 1 chapter from Liliana's POV, and 3 other chapters with omniscient narration. While Ronan never has the longest chapters, his chapters are shorter relative to other POVs in Greywaren, perhaps as a result of the way his chapters are written during his time asleep/in the sweetmetal sea. I have not yet investigated whether chapters tend to be longer while characters are awake vs asleep or dreaming, but that's something that could be measured from the existing data in the spreadsheet! There is also a dramatic drop in Jordan's POV time in GW compared to the previous two books, perhaps because of her increased divergence from Hennessy and desire to establish a life that follows her own narrative.

Other findings: A major difference I noted between TRC and TD3 was the lack of split chapters in TD3. In TRC, the data analysis was made slightly complicated by having to account for the fact that a non-negligible number of chapters would make a distinct and discrete switch between POVs partway through. While I did not observe this in TD3, I did encounter more ambiguous/nebulous POVs as I previously mentioned. The increased presence of omniscience in the trilogy, for me, contributed to the increased sense of scale and stakes compared to TRC. This increased continuity amongst POV (not amongst core/recurring POV characters, but amongst groups of characters/communities depicted in the omnisciently narrated chapters) also contributed to a sense of dissolution of barriers and identities, perhaps thematically in line with Ronan's character development and increasingly holistic perspective of both his humanity and otherworldliness (although Ronan is not necessarily featured in these 'boundary-breaking' chapters). I also briefly looked at occurrences of back-to-back chapters from the same POV; this happens most frequently for Ronan in all three books, mainly in CDTH, and sometimes featuring a dreaming chapter directly before an awake chapter (or vice versa) in immediate succession. Declan (MI), Carmen (CDTH), and Jordan (CDTH) all have a pair of back-to-back chapters at some point in the series; Hennessy has 2 (MI, GW).

Conclusions: In all honesty, despite this project being quite fun and fulfilling and of course, worth doing, I do not think I have any particularly insightful conclusions about the data beyond what I've already discussed. Ronan took up the largest share of the chapters and pages as expected, although I am not sure I expected this to be true by such a large margin. I also was surprised that Declan did not have more chapter/page time, but it is possible that his notable inclusion in chapters from other characters' POVs increases his prominence in the series (and I suppose this is probably true for all characters who frequently appear in chapters outside their perspective). As with TRC, the number of POVs expands as the series develops, often with the effect of increasing the scope of the story's implications, and perhaps, more importantly, showing the story from additional angles that contextualize and/or distort narrative established by other characters' perspectives. I hope you've enjoyed exploring the data as I have, and those interested in my methodology may continue reading below!

Methods:

Data collection was straightforward in the sense that I simply counted the pages in each chapter and then assigned each chapter to a character based on the POV represented. The POV character assignment was more difficult than it was for TRC, as TD3 has more omnisciently narrated chapters, which in itself is easy to categorize, but they often zoom in on or are 'biased' towards the experience of a particular character, so I had to make some decisions as to what, for me, constituted sufficient focus on a character’s internal narration and expression vs. omniscience. In the spreadsheet, I took notes on these more subjectively driven decisions. Again, you can view it here! It also contains data on whether the chapter is from an awake or dreaming POV, and has the first lines of each chapter, among which are some fun repeating patterns.

For bar graphs with dots, each dot represents a single chapter. You may also notice that the graphs are missing p-values from statistical tests this time around! This is because, since completing the TRC data, I’ve realized that such measures of uncertainty re: significant differences are not appropriate for my dataset, which is not a sample representing a population, but rather a complete group of chapters (so parametric tests are not necessarily helpful or valid). However, I still like to run the tests for my own amusement and to see what the results would be if this were a dataset for which ANOVA and contingency tests were appropriate, so I have standard deviation bars on the graphs where calculable (but no standard deviations in the text of the results section for legibility) as well as the p-values in tables at the end of this post for anyone also curious. I did still calculate the numbers of chapters and pages that would represent an equal distribution across POV characters, which are represented by the dashed lines on the relevant figures. I think this is helpful to visually gauge 'over-representation' and 'under-representation' of character POVs.

Below are the supplemental figures showing all character POVs rather than lumping some together in an 'other' category. The MI data in figure 4 is not expanded below because the chapters designated as 'other' were omniscient and thus would have remained in the same category.

And finally, here are the omitted p-values, if you'd like to pretend along with me that all the chapters in TD3 are not a complete set but rather a representative sample of a greater population of chapters that's out there in the universe. :) When I give a p-value below the 0.05 threshold but still write 'no significant differences amongst any combination of characters, I mean that the p-values generated for the comparisons between each possible pair of characters were all above 0.05, which are distinct from the overall p-value generated from the ANOVA.

#the dreamer trilogy #call down the hawk #mister impossible #greywaren #ronan lynch #declan lynch #jordan hennessy #carmen farooq-lane #long post #rchl #now onto more qualitative/linguistic things! xoxo

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strawberryswitchblader · 2 years

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trc edits (we're ignoring the horrible quality.) images found on pinterest: x x x x x x

#trc #the raven cycle #trc edit #trc tv show #op #undescribed

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mi6015-abbiesmith · 2 months

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Working on my risk assessment ready to book out equipment next week to begin filming. As a lot of this week is setting myself up well for the stop motion phase, prep like this is one of the few things I can get done while waiting for my images to be printed and sent. After editing the images I can work on a timing sheet as well and being prepared for next Tuesday. Doing this is a lot easier now that I understand the system and have done a few before for test animations last semester, and overall the TRC feels a lot less daunting. Risk assessments generally are very good practice for production. I haven't actually requested the equipment yet incase the pictures take longer than expected but as I gave myself 3 weeks for the stop motion phase I am happy to play this by ear.

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saintdri · 3 years

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Little print I made for last months Owlcrate <3 (I got some prints Here and here!)

#trc #the raven cycle #ronan lynch #adam parrish #noah czerny #richard gansey III #blue sargent #rt #still think i should add and edit to this and include henry #but for now pleaseee ive been wanting to share this image for months

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robobee · 3 years

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hello here is my henry cheng playlist <3

#henry cheng #trc #trk #i will be reblogging this 56 times a day from now bc that cover image just took me. WAAAY too long to edit #i made it duh bc i love him or wtvr but.still #audio.#txt.#myne #Spotify #get ready to be assaulted by 75 different genres

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kahnwaldjonas · 4 years

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“ - because I b l e e d ”

adam parrish - the raven cycle

#trc #adam #edit #my stuff #booksociety #the raven cycle #the raven cycle edit #trcedit #adam parrish #blue lily lily blue #yalit #yalitedit #litedit #maggie stiefvater #mstief #dailylit #hey did u know that tumblr only lets u post 3 pics across #theres a secret 4th image

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iphigenae · 5 years

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ya lit meme: ⁵/₁₀ series/books.

the raven cycle by maggie stiefvater.

#i don't claim any of the original images from these edits #the raven cycle #trc #trcedit #theravencycledit #ya lit meme #yalitedit #litedit #myedit #maggie stiefvater

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quicksillver · 6 years

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[ID animated drawing of a ghost with text beside it that reads “I’ve been dead for seven years, that’s as warm as they get -Maggie Stiefvater” end ID]

#the raven cycle #noah czerny #trcedit #trc edit #the raven boys #i put an apostrophe in that's but not i've? iconic #mine #newtered's art #i drew the ghostie!! then i thought of noah!! and i was sad!!#trc #books #quotes #1k #my art #misha does art #image described

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ganseysxrgent · 2 years

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in honor of the bulgarian edition of trc obviously using stock images for the boys i decided to create some stock image trc alternate covers as well

the raven boys

the dream thieves

blue lily lily blue

the raven king

bonus! cdth

and mister impossible

(bryde’s thumb is fucked up bc originally the dude was giving a thumbs up but i think bryde is more of a thumbs down guy than a thumbs up guy so i just edited it)

#yes i already posted these on my ig story so act like this is new content #trc #the raven cycle #also if maggie sees this i’m making fun of the bulgarian covers not the us covers you can still release tdt3

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ravenboyimages · 2 years

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Checked Pants for Matthew

#matthew lynch #matthew lynch aesthetic #outfit ideas for matthew lynch #matthew's checked pants #images for trc edits #my posts

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astudyinfreewill · 4 years

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trc deleted scenes: a masterpost

this is a post born primarily out of personal interest/necessity but i hope it will be useful to other people too. outtakes and cut scenes from trc have been floating around fandom spaces for a while, but they are infuriatingly hard to track down: some of them have been reblogged without tags and are therefore lost in the depths of tumblr, some i did not get to reblog before maggie deleted her tumblr, and some were posted to twitter and subsequently deleted.

so, since i was tired of having to dig through months and months of my trc tag (and often coming up empty handed), i decided to compile all the deleted scenes i could into this post. it is possible that i have forgotten some, and if that is the case, please let me know.

i owe a big debt of gratitude to kelly @harvardparrish for compiling a downloadable archive of maggie’s tumblr; most of the outtakes below i retrieved by browsing maggie’s “how i write” tag in the archive and taking screenshots of the relevant posts. others were screenshots that were posted to twitter by maggie, which i managed to save before the tweets were deleted.

enjoy!! (under a cut for length and future edits)

the raven boys

this is not so much a cut scene as a look at a first draft of trb from 2011. it was posted to maggie’s tumblr in april 2015.

pretty wild stuff, right? i feel like the fox way ladies riding off into the sunset on gansey’s camaro is something we deserved in our lives :D

the dream thieves

this is the first real bunch of deleted scenes we got, and it’s pretty juicy. in fact, it’s the freakin’ motherlode of deleted scenes (and yes, it includes the fabled “fuck, is that ovid?” line). it was posted to maggie’s tumblr in december 2015, and happily, the actual post can still be accessed through the wayback machine at this link. below are screenshots from the archive:

not actual cut scenes, but clarification on some of the scenes above, including some new info as well:

(can we just take a moment to mourn the gloriousness that would have been adam walking out of an explosion completely unharmed??? that would have been SICK, man.)

blue lily, lily blue

i actually couldn’t find any deleted scenes for bllb!! this could be because maggie’s computer was hacked twice and she said she lost a lot of material (or it could be because bllb is perfect and there was nothing to cut... i’m just saying)

the raven king

trk has quite a few cut scenes!! here are some that maggie posted to her tumblr in november 2016:

and here we have a couple more deleted scenes from trk, including one of adam’s most savage and iconic burns (it’s not outright stated as trk, but they mention ronan’s birthday and it seems to be winter so it’s a fairly safe guess). they were posted to maggie’s tumblr in march 2019, and i actually managed to reblog that post. below are screenshots from the archive:

...and last but not least, some scenes that maggie posted to twitter on 21st March 2020. the tweets have since been deleted, and i’m not sure i was able to save all the images - i was mostly excitedly sharing them with my friends, so it’s possible i skipped one or two. hopefully not though!

these first 4 images were introduced by maggie as “some totally out of context deleted pages from one of the drafts of The Raven King with all the spoilers for Dreamer Trilogy hacked out”. make of that what you will.

then there’s this ominous little snippet, which i would guess is an alternate version of adam being affected by the unmaker/demon:

speaking of ominous... here’s some not-so-veiled gwenllian death threats (thanks to @skytouches for pointing out that i had missed it!)

...and for a different kind of wrongness, here’s some painfully awkward gansey family content (thanks again to @skytouches!):

also, a precious little scene where helen gansey basically calls gansey a himbo:

and last but definitely not least... a scene that maggie herself only captioned “DELETE THISS”... cursed and blessed at the same time... the legendary, iconic ~parasite sex~ outtake:

that’s all i was able to retrace! i’m sure there must be more pieces floating into the aether, but this is the most comprehensive collection that i am aware of, and i hope it will be as useful to others as it is to me.

excelsior!

#trc #the raven cycle #reference #cut scenes #deleted scenes #resource #compilation #masterpost #mp #image heavy #long post #this took me so long omg #but hopefully it will save me time in the future!!

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kerahs · 7 years

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The Raven Boys: chapter’s first and last lines.

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ohdrarry · 3 years

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thank you @stavromulabetaaa for tagging me in this wonderful game!! it’s so much fun and such a lovely way to get to know the people behind the blogs that make the fandom experience better <33

1. why did you choose your url?

why did i choose this url? i saved the url way before i made the blog, and the reasoning is a bit foggy but i do remember wanting to be very clear on it being a drarry blog (makes the anon who sent me the ‘why do u rb so much drarry’ ask that much more hilarious) and added the ‘oh’ because it expresses a certain sentiment that most drarry shippers are intimately familiar with 😂

2. sideblogs?

this blog is itself a sideblog, my main is @yesperfahey . that said, i am going to be embarrassingly exposed, but: @kitchenism (aesthetic sideblog where i rb reference photos, aesthetic images, web weaving posts, etc.), @geetstudies (studyblr), @yusufalkasayni (for films/tv shows, it was supposed to inspire me to watch more stuff but it’s languishing inactive mostly), @doriangray (dark academia, classics, pretty edits + moodboards + occasional fashion inspiration, etc.), @psykhes (mythology), @andrewminyyard (for aftg and trc) and @stevenroguers (for marvel and stucky). i have a few others but they aren’t particularly relevant or active and i don’t want this to go on forever.

3. how long have you been on tumblr?

i think about 5/6 years.

4. do you have a queue tag?

yes!!! it’s potteresqueue !! i have a separate queue tag for every single one of the blogs you’ve seen up top but this one is one of my favourites.

5. why did you start your blog?

i started my main because tumblr was the fandom hub and i was neck deep in drarry as a teenager, but this specific sideblog happened when i started segregating my interests into separate blogs and wanted to be more active specifically in the drarry fandom.

6. why did you choose your icon?

it’s a picrew of me from my favourite picrew!! it’s too slytherin from back when i thought i was a slytherin and i might change the colours a little to fit the ravenclaw vibe better, but the slightly grumpy lesbian is here to stay <33

7. why did you choose your header?

i searched up drarry headers and this was one of the first ones i found. i think i’m going to change it, because while it does fit the aesthetic of my blog, i’m all about desi!harry. much as i love dan radcliffe, he’s stopped being the harry i imagine in my head.

8. post with most notes?

this one which is surprising, because i posted it,,,, two days ago, i think? people seem to enjoy me writing fluff, who would’ve thought. i’m not a big blog and i don’t create a ton of original content on tumblr, so it’s not objectively a ‘big post’ but it makes me happy either way to know a bunch of people chose to spend their time reading what i had to say <33

9. how many mutuals do you have?

tumblr’s system for checking this is... very basic and full of holes so i have no idea but i get very excited whenever an url i recognise likes/reblogs/comments/tags me in anything, so if you’re a mutual, then please know i cherish you deeply and you make my day whenever i see you in my notifs <33

10. how many followers do you have?

tumblr hides this for a reason, i choose to not share this <3

11. how many people do you follow?

520. i used to follow upwards of 900, but i purged many inactive blogs a few months ago so we’re at 520.

12. ever made a shitpost? not with that specific intention, i don’t think, but the #geets.txt tag on this blog and others feels plenty shitpost-y to me.

13. how often do you use Tumblr each day?

😬 i’m... very online. tumblr is my safe space on the internet and i spend a great deal of time on here with little regret.

14. did you ever have a fight/argument with another blog?

i don’t think so? i’ve got a couple rude anons, but those don’t count, right? there was a whole Situation on my main once upon a time, but i stay pretty chill on this one and i hope it stays that way.

15. how do you feel about “you need to reblog this” posts?

i choose to ignore that line if it’s there. if i agree with the message and think it’s an important one to have on my blog, then i reblog, but if it’s a post that’s either fishing or guilt-tripping or being threatening, then i scroll past. i understand where the sentiment comes from but there’s a better way to phrase these things.

16. do you like tag games?

i love them, they’re so much fun.

17. do you like ask games?

yes!! ‘someone thought of me?? someone remembered me? someone went into my askbox to say this???? i am a puddle of love’

18. which of your tumblr friends/mutuals do you think is famous?

fame on tumblr is a myth, honestly

19. do you have a crush on a mutual? so many tumblr crushes. So. Many. everybody is so lovely, so welcoming, so full of excitement and appreciation for art and creativity, how could i not?

tagging @shealwaysreads @tackytigerfic @dragontamerdame @onbeinganangel @the-starryknight @orange-peony @drarrymybeloved @amortentiaboys @hogwartsfirebolt if they want to do it/haven’t already done it. this was quite a bit of fun so if you want to do it and i haven’t tagged you, then this is an open tag for you too <3

#geets.txt #tagged

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