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#in canon where they are both hated by the spn writers for being more interesting than the Winchester’s
musclesandhammering · 9 months
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Spn Opinions That’ll Have Me Burned at the Stake Pt. 2: Electric Boogaloo
I’m back and bitchier than ever. For reference, here’s part 1.
• Season 5 wasn’t that great.
• D*stiel isn’t real, it’s a sucky ship, and that confession scene was just the writers pandering to the rabid deancas fans cause they knew they were the only ones still watching the show lol. And they left it ambiguous enough that they could still say it was meant platonically if they needed to.
• I hate how they watered down both angels and demons post-season 5ish.
• I liked Ruby 1.0 better than Ruby 2.0.
• I hate Honey!Cas. They just did that cause they didn’t know where to take his story from there, needed him out of the way, and thought it would be funny. It was insulting.
• Jack should’ve been played by an actual child so everyone’s abuse of him would resonate with the audience for what it was (casual fans are brain dead and need to be spoon fed).
• Victor Henrikson deserved more time on the show.
• I said it in the last post, but Alex is way more interesting than Claire and should’ve been given the lead role in the wayward sisters storyline instead.
• Dean is canonically straight and for Christ sake if you guys wanted bi rep, there’s about a thousand other characters that are strongly coded or implied to be bisexual (including Sam!) but y’all didn’t focus on them because it wasn’t actually about representation, it was about making it more plausible for your dumb fetishised gay ship to actually happen (spoiler: it didn’t).
• Season 3 and Season 6 were some of the best ones, you guys just don’t have any taste.
• Claire is not Castiel’s daughter and saying she is erases Jimmy and insults her, and even Cas himself acknowledged that on the show.
• Castiel is canonically NOT gay and Misha constantly saying he is is annoying and airheaded. He’s been attracted to women IN THE SHOW and he’s not even really male, so calling him a Gay Man is reductive and just plain wrong. Also, it’s veeery sus that- given how bi/pan folks are even more underrepresented than gay people- that one of the rare times where the bi/pan label actually fits a character BETTER in CANON……. the allies and monosexuals adamantly reject it. Hm.
• “Curing” vampires or werewolves or demons shouldn’t have been a thing.
• The Winchesters cause most of the bad shit that happens and then they just force supernatural beings to fix it for them- tell me again how they’re Super Special Heroes.
• It shouldn’t be possible to make angels human by removing their grace, because (unlike demons, werewolves, etc) they were never human to start with. If you drained me of all my blood, I wouldn’t magically transform into another species, I’d fucking die.
• Making Billie go crazy was dumb.
• Rowena was one of the most interesting and charismatic characters on the whole show- they just didn’t know what to do with her character.
• The archangels, Lilith, and Azazel should’ve been the biggest threats on the show. No other knights of hell, no god and his sister, no Cain, nothing like that. Having every villain just get progressively more overpowered made the show unbelievable and repetitive and annoying.
• The kernel sanders king of hell guy was hot.
• Dean is misogynistic as HELL, homophobic, likes racist porn, is a narcissist, pervs on teen girls, & thinks all non-human people should be exterminated… and that is all CANON.
• Most of John Winchester’s abuse is fanon.
• Fans portraying Cas as a smol bby who colours in colouring books and has a bee plushie is so fucking annoying.
• Instead of having so many gigantic cosmic storylines with god and his sister and alternate dimensions and even the angel and demon tablets, they should’ve just scrapped those and made the stein family and the bmol and the alpha vampire storylines way bigger than they were. Less cosmic stuff, more earth-based stuff.
• They ruined Lucifer’s character post-season 5. Before that, he was more sympathetic and reasonable than Michael. After, he was a spoiled child hurting people for fun.
• Everything from season 7 on is garbage. All of it. There’s bits of goodness here and there but overall seasons 7-15 are trash.
• How the fuck are there actual people who are deangirls and hate Sam?? The space where your brain should be is empty, I swear to god.
• If there was gonna be any lgbt rep in the Wayward Sisters group, it should’ve been Jody and Donna instead of Claire and Kaia. Those two were boring as hell and had zero chemistry or build-up, but Jody/Donna had plenty of chemistry and was very believable.
• Meg has the best and most realistic redemption arc of anyone on the show.
• Chuck was not likeable or charismatic enough to carry off as big of a villain arc as they gave him. Also that whole thing was stupid and WAY too Out There.
• All the angels should’ve been aroace. All the demons should’ve been pan.
• I stanned Cole so hard up until he changed his mind about hating Dean. That was disappointing.
• Sam went through the same shitty childhood Dean did (plus Bonus Abuse on top of it) and he didn’t turn out Like That.
• I cannot think of a single person that was asking for a spin-off about the Winchester family, like that has to be the most boring thing.
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peepeenatural · 3 years
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Is Gabriel comforting Cas in the empty or is he laughing at him ??
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luxshine · 3 years
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Hello. I came across your post about Good Omens. Could you please explain to me what the drama is about? I watched S1 but I’m not really in the fandom. I’m in the Spn fandom and lot of them are also fans of GO, and I saw some negativity about the creator of the show and also something about Michael Sheen a while back? Thanks 🙏🏻
Sure. I will be a bit vague and not mention the living author's name because I seriously don't want the uberfans to find my post (and the man is on tumblr so...). Also, I haven't seen nor read Good Omens because a) I am not a fan of the living author and b) I have been working on my angel's webcomic since 2001, and I didn't want anyone to claim I was copying him. So I can't really talk about IF the content is really a closed ending or not. My knowledge comes exclusively from OUTSIDE the story itself.
Basically it boils down to this: when Sir Terry Pratchett died, the other author, who liked to call himself Sir Terry's best friend, said that there would be no more GO EVER because without Sir Terry there was no Good Omens. It is worth to note that, BEFORE Sir Terry's untimely and tragic death, both authors HAD said that the story was done, and while they loved the characters, there was not much more to be said. The Other Author presented himself in every possible media as missing his friend dearly, and that yes, Good Omens was done for.
Fast forward to the miniseries, where the Other Writer kept insisting that it was all how Sir Terry would've wanted it, that he was being protective of Sir Terry's wishes. WHICH at that point, he INSISTED, didn't include a sequel. Despite fans begging him to write more, he refused as "No more GO without Sir Terry".
HOWEVER, now he is changing the narrative to claim that "They ALWAYS" planned a second part, only that time made it impossible to write. That he had notes. That he of course had Sir Terry's blessing. That this IS what Sir Terry would've wanted. And the fans (and, granted, this particular anti-fan) who REMEMBER his original statements are royally pissed because not only he is trying (and getting away with) to gaslight the fandom, but also, it's pretty obvious this was completely for the money. AFTER a different kerfuffle where he insisted that the reason why Death is going to be Black in Netflix's Sandman is because he is a good ally of minorities (Despite claiming, for example, that the US doesn't have interesting graveyards because the old ones are "just a bunch of dead indians". As I said... I have ISSUES with the Other Writer). But because OTHER fans really want to have more of their angel and demon pair (and are being not-so subtly told that this time their romance will be canon, which, if it is NOT the case, is textbook queerbaiting), well, they forgive the Other Writer and let him get away with murder. (And seriously, the Other Writer gave/gives money to Scientology. THAT alone is enough in my books to not want to give HIM money)
Regarding Mr. Sheen? I have no idea why would the fandom hate him. Well, except for the J1 Stans because He LIKES Misha, has cosplayed as Castiel, did a wonderful t-shirt and promo with Misha coining the crossover term "Super Good", and well, J1 stans hate anyone who has ever said a kind word about Misha Collins up and including Jensen.
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remythologise · 3 years
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Hello! I found your blog via you amazingly summarizing all that's going on with the spn drama. Due to my schedules, rl stuff, some of the arcs that didn't vibe with me, my availability to find a place to watch...the rollercoaster I was used to with this fandom was more me binging it in a weekend to going months to over a year without watching it. I still haven't watched the last season(but with a fandom this big it's pretty impossible not be spoiled so I more or less know what happened) BUT oh great one I ask of thee for more information if you have it...other than being busy and whatnot, I'm not really one to keep up with the actors as well. So could you also maybe do a summary of all the stans? I'im seeing terms I haven't seen before. Who is Kelios(sp?)? Hellions?? probably messed it up but like...I guess what are the name of each legion? Who do they have alliance towards? What was their desires? Que paso?!?!?!?
Hi there! 'Some of the arcs that didn't vibe with me' me emotionally quitting Supernatural in Season 7 after they killed Castiel 😂 Anyway I totally get it, I went through the same culture shock mid-last year when I got back into SPN and tried to find where fandom was at! There's really a LOT of lore and content after 15 years though so I'll just do the broad brushstrokes based on my impressions and personal stereotypes PLEASE remember this is oversimplifying groups and individuals to tendencies and I'm very biased! Also important that there are sub-factions within sub-factions - again, I'm simplifying here!
I've also linked to the 'Super-wiki' in terms of some definitions because the Super-wiki has pages for them where the Fandom-wiki does not. Great introduction actually - only in the Supernatural fandom. There are two Supernatural wikis. One, through curation and twitter activity, supports BiBro/Wincest factions and does not support Destiel users. One is more neutral or Destiel-friendly (I don't know that the Fandom wiki has a personality/social media presence per se). You cannot make this up. There is a factional war... within use of fandom wikis.
Destiel faction
People who primarily ship Dean/Cas, love Castiel and (often, although not always) Jack, and the 'found family' of Supernatural as well as the brothers, and like the post s3 seasons too. Hated 15.19 and 15.20 for killing Dean and ignoring the other characters/narrative arc of the show. Nicknamed 'Destihellers' by the Wincest faction as a derogatory term, 'reclaimed' and shortened as 'Hellers', a nickname they use affectionately to describe each other. See more info on nicknames here.
Sometimes also ship ‘Cockles’ (the ship between Misha Collins and Jensen Ackles) although generally speaking they're more respectful of the wives of the actors than J2 shippers, who are notoriously responsible for... a vast series of insane-fan misdemeanours. Historically most were also good at keeping RPF to themselves and not harassing celebrities with it directly, although recently, particularly with younger twitter fans, that has not been the case.
Sub-factions:
The ‘Desticule’ or ‘Destiel tumblr’ - general grouping of Destiel-shipping tumblr users around 20-30 years old, usually LGBT+, most who came back to the show post-15.18 after leaving it for various reasons including getting sick of the queerbaiting. Funniest bitches alive etc. and responsible for the best text posts you’ve ever seen. Can also start stupid discourse and in-group drama when they’re bored.
'POLOL' - People of Lots of Letters, a discord group (of tumblr and twitter users) that ran on the assumption Andrew Dabb was playing a hugely intricate game of 3D chess to do with gnostic symbolism among other things, and would make Destiel canon. Have since had their own factional sub-wars and fallen apart a bit. Some of their meta was and is good and interesting! Some of it was wildly off the mark. Now generally insist that Dabb/the writers were all pushing for Destiel canon and the network is entirely to blame.
Twitter fans (TikTok edition) - younger fans around 18 and younger who (FOR REASONS BEYOND ME) started watching the show around 2018-2020. Definition of 'stans'. Tend to be very loud and aggressive on twitter when Events Happen, which like. I do get, because they've grown up in a completely different media environment and this kind of Dinosaur Politicking around LGBT+ issues is beyond them. Fancam central. Anyway stream #CASTIEL for clear skin!
Twitter fans (AO3 edition) - older fans around 30+ who kept going with the show but either don't have a large tumblr presence or just prefer twitter. A lot of fic writers, GISH-ers, and BNFs in this group. Some of them are very cool and reasonable in their opinions, some of them act like the younger stans. Some of them too accepting of what happened wrt 15.19-20 in my opinion, because, in contrast to the younger twitter stans, they grew up expecting Destiel to NEVER be canon or respected. 'Can't believe we got this far' etc.
Multiship faction
Multishippers or shippers of things not as large as the two main behemoths . Sub-factions based on shipping, e.g. Megstiel and Sastiel. I don't think these groups are very large though, and seem to have very little influence in the Discourse.
Wincest faction
LARGE overlap with the 'BiBro' faction and their opinions, which I'll get to. Ship Sam and Dean romantically. Often pretend to be BiBros on places like twitter and reddit in order for outside groups to take their opinions more seriously. 'Wincesties' etc. are derogatory nicknames given by the Destiel faction.
Sub-factions:
Multiship fans - ship Sam and Dean but respect Castiel/the 'found family'. Politically overlap with the faction of multishippers, I think. I don't have a lot of insight on this group of people honestly, but I know they exist.
Bronlies - the typical BiBro and 'Wincest' shippers most people think of, twitter user 'Kelios' is one of the would-be ringleaders of this faction - typically tend to be older white midwestern women. Historically have been pretty nasty on twitter (leading to Robert Berens, writer who made Destiel canon, occasionally subtweeting Kelios). Also tend to ship 'J2' - and take it very seriously as a legitimate thing that is really real. This is called 'tinhatting'.
BiBro faction
People who think the show should JUST be about the brothers, love Supernatural s1-3 and everything after it should have been just like Supernatural s1-3. Hate Castiel, Jack, and the 'found family'. Largely loved 15.20. Go to literally any comments section on any Supernatural article and You Will Find Them complaining about how the show should just be about the Brothers. Tend to be older, straighter, and more conservative/Republican (and male) fans. (I am aware that the definition of 'BiBro' used to refer to people who just liked the brothers but there's no definitional difference now in the discourse.) The Wincest and BiBro faction are generally much more wealthy than the Destiel faction (they being younger and more diverse/queer/left-leaning in general) and would be the biggest revenue generators at conventions etc.
Sub-factions:
Reddit bros - literally anyone who visits r/supernatural. Well, that's not fair - there are people who post reasonable opinions on there, but it's pretty rare and they get downvoted a lot. Like to talk about 'toxic Destiel fans' 'ruining the show' and how Dean is a straight man who is straight and could never possibly be gay. Might even think the confession was platonic despite all evidence to the contrary. I'm Not Homophobic I Have Gay Friends, But No Gays on MY Show!
Old Guard - group of older fans who overlap strongly with the Wincest faction, but might not necessarily ship Wincest.
GA faction
'General Audience' - These are the group of audience members that aren't 'online' so to speak; most watch the show on TV as a Casual Viewing Experience (are therefore also sometimes referred to as 'casuals'. Mostly their opinions tend towards BiBros, but they have a vast range of baffling views thanks to being Not Online and usually Not caring about Supernatural that much or thinking that deeply about it.
Sub-factions:
People who simply watch Supernatural on TV and then don't think about it very much after that.
I said they weren't 'online' but that's not entirely true; I'd probably classify people on Supernatural Facebook Groups as GA, along with friends of friends who post statuses about how 15.20 was a neat finale that wrapped up the series.
Conclusion
Supernatural is famously the show that appeals to both Republicans and Democrats, literally All Orientations, so there's a WIDE range of factions. However, most warring online boils down to Destiel vs. Wincest/BiBro - the war that started in Season 4 and has simply never ended. In terms of the 'actors' and their stans, in general, Wincest/BiBro fans love Jared, like Jensen, and dislike Misha. Destiel fans love Misha, like Jensen, and dislike Jared. Of course as with everything, there are variations and this is just a generalisation. But that's the summary of it, from my perspective!
This didn't even get into Sam girls, Dean girls and Cas girls. God. Anyway.
Hope that answered your question, anon!
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boykingsofhell · 3 years
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3,6,20,27,64
3) Describe the different ways in which liminality shifts as a central theme in Supernatural (or a specific arc/character given)
Liminality is super interesting regarding both Winchester brothers because they both straddle the line between the more normal and more deranged brother at different times. Sam is the boy with the demon blood, black eyes and blood dripping down his face, and he is the man with a white picket fence and a house in suburbia. He is the man who left Stanford thinking he had something he could come back to. Dean is dreaming of suburbia and fast cars in the same thought, normality whilst “it was always going to end like this for me” rings through his head. Dean is alienated from a suburban life and his obsession with hunting further alienated himself. Liminality in spn rests so deeply on the boy’s childhood, in the space between scenes where we understand the boys have never had somewhere to come back to. This shifts in season 8 with the introduction of the bunker, but the bunker and their father’s legacy is just a new form of alienation from their family and from “normal” people.
6) Do you have any psychological headcanons (or canon interpretations) of the characters?
Dean has ADHD (you know I’m right, he is whip smart yet struggled in academic settings and can’t keep attention on things that aren’t interesting to him, what does that remind me of???) Cas and Jack are autistic (I love them) and Sam has chronic not-quite-right syndrome in the way he will never let himself or anyone else try to understand. 
20) What is your favourite part of season 3?
I am Obsessed with the scene in 3.10 where Dean says “my father was an obsessed bastard! All that crap he dumped on me about protecting Sam, that was his crap. He's the one that couldn't protect his family! I don’t deserve to die, and I don’t deserve to go to hell” or something like that not like I memorised it haha. But anyway it’s such a cathartic scene, Dean simultaneously realising his own self worth AND stopping blaming himself for his father’s actions. I would have loved for spn to contend with this more because it was a great start in an arc of Dean recognising his past and abuse and moving past it, rather than just. never criticising John Winchester again.
27) How do you think the angels fit into the species ecosystem of the Supernatural universe? how do monsters? are monsters grouped together in your mind in some way other than the fact they are hunted?
OK SO I am currently doing my degree in politics AND a class in philosophy for context. But how we classify groups of people is inherently political and reveals as much about our own biases as the other groups. In my head, angels are classed as beings in the same way as many of the (culturally butchered) pagan gods. Also, monsters as a category are used to dehumanise the Other, by grouping non-sapient creatures in with groups which are basically Humans With A Disease/Powers, like werewolves. Using monsters as a broad level enables hunters to indiscriminately perpetuate violence towards non-humans, regardless of the threat they actually present to the public. Some hunters would classify witches as monsters. Is this how they justify killing them? Long story short, in my head for all supernatural beings that could be classified as monsters, there are two categories, creatures (like the scarecrow), and nonhumans. Because nonhumans can include any supernatural nonhuman creature, like vampires, werewolves, or sirens. Some of these creatures are definitely evil most of the time but! like we’ve seen with Garth this isn’t always the case and is a more neutral definition. tbh with other “monsters” like psychic kids or witches, well, they’re just humans with powers.
64) What are the central themes of Supernatural to you? Did the finale counter or reinforce them? Shape them?
Rem you are too bigbrained with your smart questions. HOWEVER I will attempt to answer. I think the central themes are loss, perseverance, family, and alienation. The others are self explanatory, but there’s the canon alienation of both the Winchesters and many they know from normal life, alienation from their relationships with each other, alienation with how most people see the world, as a place without monsters whilst they know the truth. Ultimately, whether spn wanted to be or not, it is a tragedy. A downwards spiral that never lifts, and ends with two main characters dead and another trapped in a hollow ending in the suburbs. The ending reinforced the theme of loss, as per the tragic tone, but it challenged that of family. The idea that “family don’t end in blood” is pervasive and explicit, yet isn’t textually supported, as Sam and Dean’s most important relationships are almost always with each other and other biological family members. This is blatant in the finale, with Sam seemingly rejecting the family he’s built with other hunters and people in the community to embrace a nuclear family model based on biological ties. The theme of perseverance, to “always keep fighting” was textually explicit in the finale, yet was contradicted by by Dean’s death. Dean, a depressed and at times suicidal man accepting death easily is not a triumph of perseverance, it’s cowardice on the part of the writer’s. The theme of alienation is deeply contradicted by the finale! white picket fence and kids! blurrywife! You know what I’m talking about!
Anyway I hated the finale.
THANK YOU so much for the quiz, it’s super cool and the questions are really insightful :)
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rogueangelshunter · 3 years
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My SPN IMDB review for 15x20
I started watching this show with the very first airing of the very first episode in 2005. From the first few moments of the episode, I knew it was something very special. I watched for several seasons, until other fandom stuff dragged me away, but I caught myself up and started watching again faithfully until season 10, when I finally felt like I had to give up the show. 
As a member of the LGBT community, I've long gotten used to finding subtextual narratives to help add more nuance to any show/film I'm watching and SPN had those in droves, especially once Misha Collins came to the show as Castiel. The chemistry Misha and Jensen had was intense and riveting to watch week after week, but after a while, it became obvious to me and a lot of other fans that the showrunners had cottoned on to our interest and basically used us to keep the ratings for the show up. In season 6, Sera Gamble had Cas betray Dean and Sam and it was a rift that took a literal decade to fix in raw, real-time hours worth of show. But at the time, Gamble used Misha as a carrot, dangling Cas's possible return in front of the fans and telling them coyly 'you'll just have to tune in and find out', when she never had any intentions of bringing him back.
Flash forward a few seasons later, and we have Dean and Sam getting in fangirls' faces in an episode where a bunch of Supernatural fans are putting on an SPN-inspired musical, telling them 'you have your interpretation, we have ours' - in probably the most condescending, patronizing display of fourth-wall breaking writer lectures I have ever seen on television. After that episode, I knew it was time for me to walk away because my relationship with the show had become toxic.
I stayed away for 5 years, until the announcement came down the wire from the boys that the 15th season would be the last. Even though my heart still hurt at the way LGBT characters and Dean and Cas's relationship were treated on the show (along with Cas and Misha in general as part of the cast - he was kept out of that musical episode, despite specifically asking to be a part of it, and wasn't included in the 200th or 300th episodes despite the fact that, without Misha, they never would have *gotten* to those high numbers), I decided I had to be there for the end.
I got caught up with key episodes from the seasons I'd missed and tuned in for the 15th season and was amazed with what I was seeing. They'd finally started addressing core character issues with Dean that he's had since season one, and the story arc about his relationship with Cas became the emotional center of the final season. I'd never felt so seen and appreciated as a fan, seeing Becky all grown up and with a family of her own, still loving Supernatural but in a *healthy* way.
Things with Dean and Cas became more and more intense and culminated in Cas confessing his love for Dean, only for him to be swept away by the Empty moments later. I'd prepared myself for the likelihood of the Empty deal finally coming to fruition, so I wasn't shocked, but it did hurt to see Cas - easily my most beloved character on the show, after Dean - be taken from us that way. I did my best to manage my expectations and just hoped that maybe Misha would make even the briefest of appearances in 15x19 or 15x20 and I'd be happy with how the series ended.
I just didn't count on what Andrew Dabb would do to Dean. After an entire season of focusing on Dean confronting his most self-harming traits (anger, self-hatred) with the potential promise of Dean coming out on the other side as an abuse/neglect survivor on the mend, instead he's dispatched in the stupidest and most perfunctory of accidents. Bob Singer called the finale 'bold', but all I could see was a show doing its best to pull off one last death for shock value.
Don't get me wrong - I think Jensen and Jared both acted the hell out of that scene, however the incestuous undertones to their interactions in Dean's final moments felt like pandering to the most hateful and toxic faction of the fandom. Those fans stalked and harassed Jensen and Jared, threatened Misha with violence, would perpetually insult their wives and cast doubt on the validity of their marriages even - they made being in this fandom a living hell. But yet they got the brass ring of canonical acknowledgement in the finale. It's nothing short of perverse. Dean and Jensen, along with Cas and Misha, deserved better than this. I'm still not sure *what* happened to this episode, but something clearly did go astray somehow.
The show's oft-quoted line 'family don't end with blood' became 'family ends with blood, they're the only ones who really matter'.
The cast's off-screen efforts to advocate for mental health within the fandom were warped into 'if you're 'too' broken, you don't deserve to live' by the series finale's narrative.
The show's insistent refrain this season of 'we'll find a better way' was twisted into 'get yours and to hell with everybody else'.
The show's efforts to convince me that no, really, they had learned their lessons from fans like me about what was important to us (ie. being seen as human beings instead of just cringey fangirls, treating Cas as a character with so much more respect than they had in seasons) was all just one last dog and pony show from TPTB to get us to tune in, hoping for even a momentary glimpse of Cas. They used Misha to get us to tune in, just like they'd done all those years ago in seasons 6 and 7 and it was the most shameful of marketing ploys.
Again - I'm still not sure *what* went wrong here. I don't know if this finale is the result of studio meddling or Andrew Dabb just smoking a bad batch of weed, but all this finale did was hammer home the fact that I never should have come back for the final season just so I could get my heart broken again. The disrespect paid to Jensen and Misha and their characters is beyond the pale and I honestly don't know if I'll ever be able to watch the show again and genuinely enjoy it - not that I know how hopelessly it has ended.
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ao3gingerswag · 3 years
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Characters! Sam and/or Mary and/or Claire
So I’m not gonna do Mary cause um confession time I have only seen SPN fully thru season 8 and like. Parts of the later seasons, with less and less as time went on….The writing just started to get too all over the place for me. So I know nothing about Mary really.
Sam:
How I feel about this character
Love Sam. Love him love him love him. He doesn’t get enough attention in this fandom he’s so angry and feral in early seasons and I LOVE him for that. I think the writers kinda….lost sight of what they were doing with him post season 5, and especially post season 8, and I think it’s connected to how they framed John and the narrative. Like a lot of Sam’s character in the early seasons is framed around this conflict he has with Dean about whether or not John is a piece of shit and whether they should just follow him blindly. And his complicated hero worship vs pity vs resentment relationship with Dean was a big part of his personality. And then post season 5 they kind of backed off that entire conflict? And so much of Sam’s personality was forgotten. But I still love him tho, he’s so valid, I love his anger in the early seasons at John and in defense of Dean and I think he’s the only reason Dean didn’t end up completely beaten down by his dad.
All the people I ship romantically with this character
Eileen/Sam!!!! Eileen is the only one I reeeaaally ship with Sam. A lot of fics (esp before Eileen was introduced) had him with Jess (including mine), and that’s fine, but tbh we never actually got to know Jess soooo don’t have strong feelings. Then with Ruby, she was SUCH a fun character but like, ya know, evil. Like I do actually think she cared about Sam in her own fucked up way but like. They brought out the worst in each other lol. So I’ll pass.
My non-romantic OTP for this character
Uhhh Dean obviously lol!!!! In my perfect SPN ending Dean Cas Sam Eileen Jack Claire and maybe their other friends too live together in the bunker forever. Found family baby!!! My asexual ass loves how much Dean and Sam mean to each other and how they seem to take for granted that they will always live together. If only the real world was more like that ;~; But yeah it’s kinda a pet peeve of mine when in Desitiel fics people either just ignore Sam or just kinda have him around but he’s not like. Really around. Like excuse me??? Sam and Dean are Bros 4 Life!!!!
My unpopular opinion about this character
Sam is more interesting than Dean. Like I love Dean and he’s my favorite but Sam is like soooo complicated and so interesting!!! Like this kid who grew up knowing that something was Wrong with him. His hunter upbringing vs society, his desire for normal vs the rest of his family, and then just the Knowledge deep down that something is really Wrong aka the demon blood. And then he has all this anger with nowhere to go, he can see clearer than Dean how fucked up their lives are and how awful John is but he can’t convince Dean bc Dean’s too brainwashed and ack!!! I feel like he has always felt so guilty for going to Stanford and felt so guilty then too bc he knew he was basically abandoning Dean to John, who would just continue to abuse and beat him down. But he Could Not convince Dean to wake up and smell the abuse so he left without him bc what else was he supposed to do??? But he’s still fucked up about it. He’s so interesting. All twisted up inside ;~; I love him!
On a less serious note, another unpopular opinion I guess is that Sam and Cas would def be friends but bc of the boring aspects of their personalities?? Like I’ve seen a lot of stuff about them being besties bc they both r crazy and they ARE but like. I see them bonding over ecological justice and academic articles about ancient Aramaic etymology lol. Like they’d go to the farmers market together!!! They would very earnestly consider together which plants would be best to plant in their garden to help the local bee population!!!! And like Dean is a dork and loves both of them but like. If the three of them got drunk together Sam and Cas would get caught up in a very passionate debate about the benefits/drawbacks of different kinds of green energy and Dean would fall asleep.
One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.
He should have gotten to run John over with his car. Ok but no forreal, I wish he’d had his anger at John validated. This is connected to how I feel about Dean but I wish Dean had explicitly grown past his hero worship of John and understood that he was abusive, and I wish he’d apologized to Sam for defending John throughout their childhoods. That would have been so great for both of them ;~;
Claire:
How I feel about this character
Ohhhh my god ummmm. U know how I said I didn’t watch past season 8 and only saw parts of the later seasons? Yeah um the vast majority of those parts are scenes with Claire in them. Her character has been the thing that came closest to getting me to watch the later seasons. She is So Fucking Cool. Honestly even besides her character, as like a rule I just LOVE it when SPN forces the characters to Actually Confront The Results Of Their Actions for real. Like morally I guess but also just practically like one of my fave episodes is where they get trapped at the bank by the FBI in like season 3 bc like!!!!! Consequences!!! To murdering all over the country!!!! So back to Claire I already just love the idea of having the characters have to Deal With this girl who’s life they fucked up and then forgot about. But then she is SOOO COOOL gay and dramatic and angsty ugh I love how she’s like actually a teen, she acts like a teen, like she rolls her eyes and is overdramatic and shit. Fucking awesome u funky little lesbian.
All the people I ship romantically with this character
Kaia/Claire. I don’t know a lot about Kaia but she’s very pretty and seems very sweet. I saw the scene where the two of them compare scars and it was so cute. In other news I have no idea if they’re canon or not I can’t tell lol.
My non-romantic OTP for this character
I didn’t watch the later seasons but I love the Claire and Jack content being produced now!! But I also love her relationship with Dean Sam and Cas. They’re very cute with her! :) Love how she seems to reluctantly grow fond of them over time. <3
My unpopular opinion about this character
Unpopular opinion ummm…maybe this is more about Dean but I don’t think Dean would be like happy to help her be a hunter?? Like he hates kid hunters he says that a bunch of times. I think she was on her murder hunting thing when she was filled with rage but I think she could be nudged away from hunting once she stops hating Cas, and I think all the adults but esp Dean would be very pro convincing-Claire-not-to-be-a-hunter.
One thing I wish would happen / had happened with this character in canon.
Ok this prompted me to google if Claire and Kaia were together and I’m still confused. Seems like if they were it wasn’t made that explicit?? So I wish she got to kiss Kaia on screen!!
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wolfwhiteflowers · 4 years
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TWD ending news; thoughts and speculations
 Caryl 📺  💖  Richonne 📽
TWD is ending soon!  -not quite.
Here’s my thoughts on it. the lows and highs. Anyways so yeah 9/9/20 was a crazy TWD news day.(and other tv news too, wtf tv gods. Yeah ..been a crazy tv week.) wtf, why that day? and I guess it’s like an unofficial Caryl day, huh? lol So it’s overwhelming. I wanna write it all out and my feels.    ok I guess I’m not that super excited or invested to it than others..idk I guess the excitement will hit me later or gradual. :P ok...idk I don’t wanna speculate too much. We don’t know much on it still.
So .... they’re/AMC saying TWD show (Rick’s/Grimes show) will end in a super sized s11. TWD finally got an ending plan! lol this show/franchise. I don’t mind that it’s ending or whatever, I mainly want a good story...a good written ending. But it’s all based on how if I still enjoy this show/franchise.. ok. Plus there’s a Caryl spin-off show and anthology spin-off show later on. +movie.
It’s a long post and I kinda mapped it out.
So in a *timeline*, in October it’s the s10 ep 16 “finale” episode. Recently, we’re also getting s10C (coronavirus pandemic bonus episodes) - six episodes I think, in Spring ‘21 (filming in October ‘20). They’re like inbetween episodes to s11. Idk what they’re like. standalone episodes?  And then they’re gonna do the series’s final season, s11, with 24 (12+12)episodes. Idk when it starts.  They film next summer, i guess, and show it in the Fall ’21 and Spring ‘22. Then it’s the spin-off shows, and Caryl..but I wanna focus more on Caryl spin-off show. That will be I guess in ‘23.  ...And a movie(s) :D but everyone’s doubtful and clueless of it but I think it will be filmed next year, ‘21. (and there’s TWD:WB and FTWD soon)
Ok yeah so ldksjfaljdflsj they say it’s sad news that TWD ending but like lol it doesn’t seem like it..from a Caryler I guess, +movie. So, I have theories and I’m like not so sure what’s really gonna happen. I need more info and well we never know what the writers or the future gonna do. Yeah first of all, these plans~~~, and yet we’re in the pandemic and dumb governing on these things. So I’m gonna guess these plans are gonna change or slow down. You never know. Ok.
 I’m also like surprised that there’s gonna be a Caryl spinoff show. (it’s like if they made a Daryl spin-off show. Or any spin-off show..) I mean I didn’t think MMB and NR were still wanting to keep working on TWD/AMC. I thought like any actor..would want to do new things...Ok but they wanna keep working on AMC. NR -I’m not surprised cos he’s like a busy bee..um idk but yeah. Instead of Daryl show it’s now Caryl show from what I suspected-ish. And from the news they sound like it’s a shippy thing. It was also planned since 2018 I think..and “let’s go to New Mexico.” They knew long ago. So, I speculated awhile ago, when we learned that MMB and NR have contracts ending till s12. It’s like we all kinda suspected right that TWD will end in s12 except in episode # count. S10C + s11 (24 episdoes/+8 exra). They combined it earlier. Why earlier Idk...the pandemic? Or Gimple’s plan in franchise timeline? 
So yeah that Caryl spin-off show! Like I hope it means that Caryl are romantic and endgame on this.👀 The more I read on this and thought about it. I don’t want to like get my hopes up too high or whatever. I don’t really trust writers.. eh ...it all depends on the story every time. I also think of the fandom/carylers on how they react to a canon-Caryl or even how the writers will show canon-Caryl. Because writers..like usually writers don’t write canon couples romance well. It’s usually love triangle, reunite a bunch of times, or breakup/makeup a lot. eh. I just hope they make Caryl story good and interesting. Another thing Caryl ship had always been like a subtle ship and angsty. We get bits and bits to keep going ..so a full attention of Caryl or canon-Caryl will be different. I hope it all goes well. :3 It’s all reminds me of Mindy Project show ..there’s always sides in the fandom. Some won’t like it, some will but it’s always about the main couple. Oh, my thoughts of Caryl show is that it will be like Bones, SPN, FTWD, or BeIIarke -_- lol , or something. 
 So from what I read when they already want to keep going with the spin-off show back in ‘18, the Caryl spin-off show will actually cost less than the TWD main show. It’s interesting. It’s all contracts, deals, Netflix, $ stuff. The show might not be international and on netflix, Idk. You know the ratings aren’t that great and most fans left,..but I guess they can still make the Caryl spin-off show. (a season or more idk) I was thinking it might be a Caryl-only show with different cast and set ...or the Caryl spin-off show might actually be just like TWD main show-s10 but different deals $ etc, and they can do whatever. 
Oh, that it’s a spin-off then, and not now in s10 and s11, because the TWD main show will be done adapting the comic book storyline..(instead of thinking of the MMB and NR’s contracts). Yeah one of the theories.. like really Idk why we have Caryl spin-off show when s10 and s11 is pretty much already a Caryl show..with Maggie. But I guess it’s all due with contracts and stuff. And I guess it works timely with the comic storyline. Though the comic storyline parallel/adapting is so different now.  It’s very broad parallels. I guess it all works out in little ways. contracts, comics, and starting fresh. The Caryl spin-off show, they can really get away from the Grimes/Rick storyline which I like that it’s gonna be really separated by being a different show. (I guess also AMC have more control too.) It’s not on the same main show/s10 and on. Like storywise, I like that TWD show is always about the Grimes and it feels like it will be done right and completed to end it in s11 and that is based on comics/and the Grimes (I hope). If that make sense? Rick/Grimes show,is based on comics, will have an ending...TV-wise. Because there’s the movies too supposedly. Yeah maybe I’m not sad..because there’s the Rick movies thing in the works too. I hope s11 will still be about the connection to the Grimes. Like everyone looking after Judith and RJ and figuring out what to do with finding Richonne and stuff. To set up for the movies. (and TWD WB s2?) Because if not, then ugh then AMC should’ve had the main show ended in s10.  Wow.., the show is not based on the comics like it was before and I really can’t speculate s11 and on. Like I hope the writers got juicy stories to tie in with Rick and Michonne, and Maggie/Commonwealth comic stuff. uhh. So yeah Caryl spin-off show it means they can do whatever and writers/me? don’t have to worry that if it’s not connecting with the Grimes storyline. If AMC/Gimple wants to connect everyone.
And one of my theories or hope is that Caryl looks after Grimes kids ...in s11 and search for Rick/Richonne or help him, in part of the bigger plot of Rick movie story, in the spin-off show. Like Caryl will work on plan that later helps out Rick in the movies later on. Yeah and I just think the Rick movies are more like “TWD movies” where all the characters in the franchise will be part of the story. So yeah Rick reunites with everyone. The end, Happy ending! :3 So there’s many ways Caryl show might be like: same cast from TWD show that AMC controls more/Caryl leads/not based on comics(romantic or not), Caryl-only show, or Caryl kinda in part of the Rick movies story-like helping him in some way. etc. Oh, ..I was also thinking it’s like I guess FTWD .. I was also thinking Morgan and his friends might be also be in part of helping Rick’s plans in the Rick movies too.  (.. if Gimple wants to do that.) I hope Caryl will be romantic..I don’t want a “Caryl spin-off show” when it’s just same cast and Caryl still not together. eh. ..Why call it “Carol and Daryl spin-off show”? So I guess it’s gonna be shippy.
So I think the Rick movies (which so far is still happening and three of ‘em.../if) will be after s11 and after TWD WB s2 - ‘21/22.    idk when FTWD comes.
Oct ‘20 - TWD:WB s1
spring ‘21 -TWD  s10C 
summer ‘21? - TWD: WB s2/ends
fall ‘21 and spring/summer ‘22 (or fall ‘22? lol) - TWD s11 
‘22? *rick movie 1? (...with everyone there?)
‘23 Caryl spin-off show s1
‘23 and on? * rick movie 2? movie 3?
....etc.
So...you get it..like it’s like some big overall storyline Gimple is doing. But plans can change and anything could happen. I may be speculating wrong. Who knows. sigh. I just want Team Family reunited with Rick again and a good ending as best as writers can do. :B  If they can’t make a movie(s) then I hope Gimple find a way to end Rick’s story for fans.
sigh yeah tired of the fandom complaining and assuming/speculating wrong. (like hating on the spin-off show when they don’t know what a spin-off show is.) blah. idk. tired of shippers..generalizing. (I ship both Caryl and Richonne so. sigh go away drama) I’m tired of fans being biased and doubting and singling things out. I feel like we all won. But anyway until more news and facts it is what it is. I wanna wait till when things actually happen or news that say something won’t happen.  Keep waiting and hoping on :] *Caryl on*
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adrunkgiraffe · 3 years
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I have been through this journey before, so I get to be actually frustrated about it.
IUnder a read more because im not subjecting y’all to this. Also: I should caveat I haven’t watched the episode cause I’m waiting till its on Netflix but I have watched way too many other episodes of Supernatural so I have a right to say these things. 
TL;DR: I mean you all knew Cas’ confession was fucking bullshit and that SPN is...hm. But I’d like to actually express my genuine frustration, for a moment? I’m going to say things you already know, but I have too much knowledge of this show and too much stupid meta in my brain about a series I haven’t genuinely enjoyed for at least 5 years which makes this not just blandly bad but disgustingly insulting to me not even as a gay just as like. A writer?
Or, even shorter: Cas’ confession is just a Charlie Bradbury Speedrun 
So. As some of you may know if, for some reason, you followed me back in 2013 (and till...okay fine 2015), I used to be, uh. Really into SPN. Really, I was into Destiel. Like, as in, I slogged through seasons 1-3 to get to Cas and am also really vulnerable to the Sunk Cost Fallacy and projecting onto characters. (I was in 8th grade in 2013, okay? Get off my back)
Also, because I monopolised use of the TV, I kind of...also got my parents into it? In a “this is silly but fun” kind of way.
Over time, critiques of the show from viewers, learning what queerbaiting is at all, fatigue with how long it was going, and also fatigue from how characters I enjoyed, like Rufus, or Crowley, or Ellen, or Jo, or Kevin, or Charlie, or Cas a few times, kept getting killed off. As time went on, it didn’t escape my notice that, aside from Cas, all of these characters fit one or more of the following criteria:
They were a woman
They were a person of color
Were Queer or Queer-coded in some way (listen Crowley was bad rep but at least Mark Sheppard actually kissed a man on screen)
I also just...generally got tired of the way the show treats women and sidelines people of color. 
The final straw really came with Charlie’s death. It got us all excited, because she hadn’t been back in a bit! And it was interesting to see how reuniting with her dark side from Oz had changed her! (yeah remember the fucking Wizard of Oz storyline? The writers sure don’t!) And maybe she’d get developed! Because at this point, Charlie and the fairly good writing of her character was a major upside for the series! Charlie was cool, fun, gay, and morally complex in a way...none of the female characters had been before her, in large part because by definition, her relationship with the boys would always be platonic.
And then. Offscreen. She is violently murdered. For no damn good reason. Like, literally, her being brought back in this episode after fucking off to europe after having returned from fucking off to Oz seems to have filled two purposes in total. 
The codex is solved (but Sam doesn’t know till next episode)
Charlie is dead, which means Dean can be angry, specifically at Sam, and kill more people because he’s the big bad this season. 
That’s it. Two things. Twooooo whole reasons to do this episode. Whoopee. 
But you didn’t come here for this, you came here for me to rip this reveal to shreds. Don’t worry, I’ll get there. What I want in your minds is that Supernatural already had a really good anddynamic queer character. And then they killed her off to make Dean angry. No, it doesn’t matter that they brought her back in season 13 or whatever. They made that decision. 
After the rage this incited, I started realizing general flaws in the writing (I had probably already noticed them but now I was angry enough to complain.) Every conflict is born of Sam and Dean not communicating/taking on burdens and Dean being angry at Cas for reasons that ranged from good to ridiculous, but in a way that always went way too fucking long, (which...yes, does make the “you do it for love” gifs fucking hilarious). It didn’t help that seasons 11 and 12 were next, which meant Demon Dean and GOD’S FUCKING SISTER, plus the decision to resurrect Mary, which, while I do like her later scenes, as a season 12 finale it...well I’ll be honest it kinda sucked. It undercut the majority of the Winchester’s’ arcs and their slow and painful journey out of their father’s toxic vengeance quest and knowing Mary as a person when it’s too late to know her was one of the last semi-compelling grounders of the narrative. 
By this point it was a hate-watch for my parents and I.
So then, I’m at college, and I’m not watching anymore cause I don’t have the motivation or access to Hulu to continue, and SPN is bad. I watch the Scooby Doo crossover when it comes out and my friend and I make fun of it, and we also continue making jokes about Dean and Cas and queerbaiting because we’re queer, but I don’t keep up. My Dad does though, so when I return, I watch some with the fam and lads. It’s even more tiring without context. 
So flash forward to Quarantine, my sister, the only one with taste, has left, and we have run out of netflix to watch. So we return to the well, and seasons 13-14 are. I’m gonna say it. Bad. Really fucking bad. The cycle of bad communication continues, season 14 has like seven antagonists and the way it’s structured makes it so I literally cannot remember the timeline of a season I watched 3 months ago. Oh also, they have a queer coded cannibal snake monster for...well I guess Jack’s snake bud was cool but like. Huh wow it’s almost like these writers don’t handle queers well. 
Our one saving grace is Cas, but he’s barely in any episodes, though I did note that his deal with the empty, being happy completely for one moment killing him, that struck me as “this has potential and I know they’re gonna half-ass it somehow.” Also Jack and Mary, but then oh...plot….The most compelling it gets is literally the finale.
But then, 3 days later, the first half of season 15 comes out on Netflix and it’s...actually kind of acceptable. The new character they give Jack’s actor is fun to watch him play until they make him evil. Exploring just how toxic Chuck can be gave the series direction again. The alternate future was genuinely scarring, and Eileen’s return was genuinely moving. Most of all, though, Cas got the opportunity to tell Dean no, that Dean was being unfair to him, had always been unfair to him, and he was sick of it. I had no illusions, I knew Destiel was never gonna happen, and Cas was gonna die, but giving him that bit of agency, letting Cas grow and be self-sufficient, and be angry with Dean not for existential reasons but interpersonal ones, was such a good sign for me, and Dean grew too! Dean fucking apologized for being horrible and Jensen Ackles had a...yknow what, ill give it to him, he had a good acting moment. 
But the thing. About. The “I love you.” 
Let’s take it in parts.
What was good: I’m gonna admit it, lads, “Wanting what I can’t have” - AS A LINE - is good, and, structurally, there is something to the Empty Deal that could have been an interesting aspect of Cas’ arc when it comes to self actualization and being on even footing with Dean. The problem is, this is Supernatural, and that arc only comes up when I bring it up because character study, even in bad media, is fun for me. 
What was bad:
I mean. Like. All of it? All of it. 
Okay. Fine. I’ll be specific. 
Cas dies immediately when - possibly because- he is revealed as having feelings for Dean. They kill him as they queer him, that’s a Bury Your Gays Speedrun right there.
Like the least they could have done is have him mention it to someone in another scene or something to establish some romantic feelings on the part of canon a full episode beforehand. That would have been the literal bare minimum. 
When Cas starts praising Dean, for some reason both the writing and Misha’s acting take a bit of a downswing (from...where it already was). Cas, whose most powerful moment this season was acknowledging that Dean’s anger at him is cruel and unfair, flatly praises him for doing everything out of love and it reads with a misunderstanding of both Dean as a character and Cas’ understanding of Dean. Dean is angry! VERY ANGRY! And it’s a problem he needs to work on and rarely does. 
Talking out of my ass, a better speech would have been about how Dean is angry because of his love for Sam, family, and the people around him, how, for better or for worse, he can’t help but be angry on behalf of others, and that his journey of moving that tendency towards the better is what made Cas care so much. Guys this alteration to the metaphor took 2 minutes to write tops I am an Art History student and these are TV WRITERS WITH YEARS OF EXPERIENCE CAN YOU TELL THEYRE NOT TRYING YET? 
A better speech would, of course, have come out of a better series. My point: this part was half-assed. Poorly written. Wow it’s almost like the series is also poorly written. 
 Also, Misha is the better actor of the three(***OF THE THREE), but his choices in that scene are jarringly out of character which. Makes the bad writing worse. It doesn’t help that they cut to the same fucking shot of Dean 3 times. The chemistry in that scene makes it feel so fucking hackneyed. Because it is. 
This combines lead me to the point: (wait there was a point to this?)
As someone who does not have the luxury of watching this capsized ship fall into boiling seas from a distance, it is less insulting to me that they did this so last minute and then sent Cas to the Void than it is how they did it. They had ingredients for something that could have been compelling enough to me as a former fan of the show to think that they had put effort into it, that they had decided months, perhaps even years ago to do this, and had crafted a storyline around it. That this was an intentional decision they cared about. It wasn’t. It was barely even pandering, because it’s almost insultingly blatant. 
SPN kinda proved to me that it didn’t care about queers when Charlie was killed off. It proved it to me again when Cas, not only died in confessing his love for Dean but did it in the weakest result of what could have been a surprisingly strong story.
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filthyjanuary · 3 years
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I've never seen an episode of supernatural all I see is what's on your blog and each and every day I become more confused about the writing of the show and why people enjoy it :l
okay well first off i am SO sorry you have to see me like this jknbuvgyuhjn i cannot believe im spnblogging in 2020 like im 15 again but things happen i guess.
second of all, the thing to know about supernatural is.... i think, for general audiences, it is an average-to-good show. it's not Bad. It's not Beloved and/or Acclaimed. objectively, i think is also probably the most balanced view of the show and is also probably what the cw and/or people who worked on the show see it as. it lasted 15 years because it consistently pulled in reliable numbers for the cw and grabbed a lot of demographics. like i know the tumblr bubble skews perceptions but, people of all ages, genders, sexualities watched and enjoyed supernatural, yes even to the very end. most people are also not looking at supernatural with the hyperfocused lens that tumblr is and that’s like... okay. those fans aren’t any less relevant or important. if only tumblr was watching supernatural, i promise it would’ve been cancelled like at least 7 years ago.
the spn *fandom* is interesting because like one, no one is watching the same fucking show. like we all watched the same episodes but like this fandom cant even agree on like...basic facets of canon, let alone digging into complex meta. people’s views of characters actions and motivations skew wildly. things one side of the fandom considers nearly canon are like essentially viewed as ooc on other sides of the fandom. you love and hate all the characters and everyone is always about to start swinging on everyone else. you have to simultaneously juggle the ideas that the writers — and for the record this show has had four showrunners and like a billion individual writers who all see and interpret it slightly differently — are brilliant and the writers legitimately are both stupid and bad at their jobs. you have to turn your brain off in terms of continuity because they retcon their own lore every 15 seconds. this isn’t even getting into the ship wars, the boundary crossing, the weird invasiveness , etc., etc., etc. supernatural’s writing is sometimes incredible, sometimes terrible, but generally pretty average, but it had a charm (ESPECIALLY IN SEASONS 1-3) that reeled you in, even if you hated the genre.
when a show is on this long, i think the fans (rightly so) will look back and dig in and get nitpicky on things they wish were covered with more care. things that the show obviously did not decide to write with the intention of addressing/grappling with later on. case in point: dean’s drinking habits. with the exception of like... season 7 where they DO address it, dean drinks a lot as a feature of his character with little to no consequence. he doesn’t get drunk. he’s always driving. it might as well be water. the writers don’t intend for that to be more than just a facet of what makes him a rough and tough action hero even though logically, he should be drunk all the time. even w/ interviews w/ the cast/crew, it’s clear the writers don’t think the fans will care and/or notice a lot of things. they do, because well, they’re invested. the fandom extrapolates because that’s what fandom does, but i really don’t think the writers connect those dots because dean’s drinking /isn’t/ a problem until they need it to be. because spn has gone on so long, it has more instances of things like this than other shows, and our cultural contexts have also evolved a lot along the way from 2005 to 2020. so again, there’s a lot to work with. i don’t really think that’s so much a reflection of the quality of the show than it is a reflection of how long it’s been on and the way society has changed since then. dean not knowing what myspace is is funny for two completely different reasons in 2005 and in 2020, for example.
my own personal opinion is, there’s a lot to enjoy about supernatural. seasons 1-5 are legitimately good tv. for all their flaws, they have a very clear aesthetic and tell a story that is well-structured and relatively coherent in terms of themes and continuity. they set up complex characters and relationships and everyone’s motivations make sense and that arc wraps on a tragic but ultimately narratively consistent and thus fulfilling point. of course, there’s stuff i personally like and dislike but separating my emotions from it, it’s very good. i think if anything, i would recommend anyone watch those five seasons and then decide whether they want to continue or not. if you don’t, you’ll end on a note that feels complete. it’s what i’m doing w/ my friend elaine, currently, actually. if she decides she wants to continue after 5, we’ll do that, but for now we’re just vibing in season 1. after that point, i think if you decide you care enough about the characters to push through wildly inconsistent writing, there’s stuff to enjoy in seasons 6-15, but the quality and particularly the consistency dips and this is also where the retconning really starts to...intensify. it’s also where the mythos of supernatural grows bigger than the show itself, which i think was always supernatural’s downfall. the crew started caring more about the whims of the fandom and frankly the fandom became more of the story than the show, and that’s how you get people piecing together what supernatural is based on out of context gifsets that skew perceptions wildly and get Supernatural Fandom™ which... frankly, in my opinion, changed fandom culture as a whole for the worse, like yes it’s a huge, powerful and often memeable behemoth but also... the way it changed creator-fan interactions is something we’re going to be unpacking for a long time. i think had the writers tuned out fandom wars and internet yelling and strived to tell a story that made sense and was well constructed to /them/, we wouldn’t be here and seasons 6-15 could’ve found a way to be as beloved as the first third of the show. i’m personally of the opinion that being a fan of something, for better or for worse, does not entitle you to part of it’s creative process. it doesn’t become a collaboration, and the door is always there if you get to the point where you want to leave. i think supernatural getting too caught up in its own fandom and balancing all these conflicting interests is ultimately what made the last 10 seasons, and particularly the back third of the show oftentimes flounder. the finale chaos, in my opinion, happened because they tried to please everyone by keeping too many things vague so people would have room to play in their own sandboxes and round out the story the way they wanted to see it and thus ultimately, a lot of things were left in the air and so for many people, the closure they were hoping for just wasn’t there.
i dont know how this became a long and scattered collection of thoughts but tldr, people enjoy supernatural because at the end of the day, it’s an enjoyable show and i think the more you stew in a fandom bubble, there’s more to get worked up about. which is fine. i like that fandom engages in complex conversations that the show won’t grapple with, but that’s not for everyone and i don’t think the fact that we have these conversations is necessarily an indictment of the show’s overall quality.
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eisforeidolon · 4 years
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This might sound biased because this is coming from a Sam fan, but Dean getting to hug Kaia is the biggest load of bs when Sam was right there. As if he wasn't the one who threatened her with a gun. SPN is so far up Dean's ass they've forgot what has happened in canon 2 seasons ago. Also according to Dabb they brought back Kaia bc Jensen didnt like that she hated Dean and wanted closure. Why does every character on the show needs to be a Dean fan? Same thing happened with Jack.
I mean, I don’t think that’s biased to think that hug was complete crap?  I thought Dean holding a gun on a scared teenager was complete BS in the first place, but it’s just as absolutely fucking absurd for her to run and hug him when it did happen.  Like WTF.
The part where we seem to differ is that I don’t think the writers constantly using Dean as the one to prop up their bad OCs is anything enviable.  They’ve done this again and again and I don’t want it for him and I wouldn’t want it for Sam either, tbh.  The whole bullshit Patience episode, who is the one stuck there propping up that nonsense - and being condescendingly contradicted by Jody?  Even though Sam was the one who desperately wanted affirmation and connection with Jack while Dean doesn’t trust him, who gets stuck coddling baby NougatSue when he’s dying his last day on Earth *sob sob so sad* gag me?  Now this crap with Kaia?  UGH.  He’s also the one perpetually stuck making increasingly ludicrous brotherhood speeches to Trenchcoat McBackstab.  See, see Dean likes them, they’re in good with Dean, NOW YOU HAVE TO LIKE THEM, TOO!  Nah, fuck the hell off, writers.
If I was gonna put on my bitter Dean girl hat, I’d find it annoying the only half-decent characters I can think of that we’ve had in the recent seasons who have bonded with one of the brothers more than the other?  Where there was some actual relationship development instead of the character just being pawned off on Dean somebody?  Those were Rowena and Eileen, who were both closer to Sam.  (Although to be fair they completely ruined Eileen by bringing her back as a ChuckPuppet Designated Love Interest, so that’s still pretty paltry.)  They also gave Sam his very own playset of nonentity OCs who were there to prop him up instead of the other way around in the AU “hunters”.  (Not exactly enviable considering what absolute nonentities they were and that they’re gone now so we don’t have to put up with them anymore, but that was a thing.)
When did Dabb say that?  I saw Berens’ tweet that mention closure with the “Dark Kaia spear saga’ but not Dabb’s comment. 
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You know, I liked every ship destiel fan hated: Meg/Castiel, Sam/Jessica, Castiel/Hannah (both vessel), Dean/Cassie, Sam/Eileen, Castiel/Kelly, Castiel/Ishim (don't ask me why), Castiel/Sam...
And for those who have stuck with me since I first started becoming active in the SPN fandom, I'm sure you all remember there was once a time when I did in fact ship Destiel. But looking back to that time, I realized that Destiel was never like THE otp for me. At one point I thought it was, but I think that had a lot to do with how I had originally entered the fandom. Let me take you back to the day about three years ago or so, I was just a newbie to this tumblring thing, I'd had my blog for about a year or so and it was mainly just reviewing Shadowhunters (and I'm sure some of you remember how not impressed I was with that show) and I decided I really needed something a little more positive in my blog. Being critical is fun and all but there comes a point where you're just exhausted from it and I was also afraid that maybe I was becoming a little too jaded. So I thought it would be fun to talk about SPN on my blog as it's a show I've been keeping up with over the years and I greatly enjoy it. But the SPN fandom is honestly so huge and when you're first entering it, it's kind of overwhelming. I really had no idea where to begin. So I just thought I would stick to what I know and type in Castiel (my favorite SPN character) and see where that took me in the fandom. I found a lot of great meta postings from the more mainstream meta writers in the community and I thought it was really good so I followed them. Now, these blogs were not only heavy on pro-Cas but also heavy on Destiel. And before going into the fandom, I knew Destiel was a thing. I'd never really shipped them before this but a lot of the meta I was reading about Destiel on these pro-Cas blogs I thought was real interesting and as I started to get braver in the fandom, making my own posts, I kind of just started shipping Destiel because I felt like that's what I needed to do in order to be accepted by this community despite the fact that I'd never had particularly strong feelings about Destiel before. So I wanted to be accepted so badly that I just shipped it because hey, it's what everyone else was doing, yay peer pressure, right? But then, as I spent more time in this particular community, I began to see the darker side of the community. The community disparaging anyone who doesn't ship Destiel or hell, doesn't ship Destiel exactly the way they do and it just left a really bad taste for me and I didn't like it (I really don't like seeing people being attacked for their opinions or being treated like they're stupid or blind in their interpretations of the show). My first foray into the SPN fandom, and I probably came upon one of the more judgemental factions of the fandom. So I made a few posts about my feelings on that, I got blocked by a good portion of the meta writers within the community (even though I never referred to any of them by name, I was super vague because I didn't really want drama, but they sure knew who I was talking about, even though it still boggles my mind that they even cared what a nobody like me was even saying about their behavior). So I realized that that faction of the community wasn't for me and I started kind of just diving into multiple factions and seeing where it takes me. And I feel like I've done much better now to get rid of all that toxicity. I feel like I've found a good group of peeps who bring good content, are nice, and fun to be around. And I also stopped shipping Destiel as I realized I liked it more in fanon than canon and then I realized fanon Destiel is really just sastiel so now I'm full on the Sastiel train but I do enjoy a lot of other Sam ships and Cas ships.
Anyway, the point to this story is that I feel like a problem that destihellers and maybe even certain parts of the Destiel community in general has is that they don't want to stay in their own lane, they feel like their interpretation is the one true interpretation and they need everyone else to believe in it and if they don't then they're wrong, they're not reading the foreshadowing correctly, they're not noticing the wallpaper, and they're heteronormative or whatever. And I feel like even a lot of former Destiel shippers kind of left the ship behind partly because of just the oversaturation of Destiel and the hive mentality around how you must ship it or be ostracized, you know? It gets pretty exhausting being around those people who are constantly saying things like that. I guess you could say the community ships it so hard that people can get sick of hearing about it. And I mean, it's a good to be passionate about the things you love but you should also be courteous of other people and the things they love too (unless its pedo-related, then disparage to your heart's content).
And like you, I like a good portion of the ships the destihellers just seem to hate. Obviously Sastiel and Megstiel are pretty big ships for me. I truly love both of them. Hanstiel is great as well, I loved their dynamic a lot too. Sam/Jess I absolutely adore. Jess has always been the endgame romance I wanted for Sam. I wish they would bring Jess back but I understand the actress might be a little busy. Dean/Cassie, I've always loved the idea of them, I just wish better writers had been in charge of writing their relationship. I also really liked Dean/Lisa too. Cas/Kelly is wonderful, I love them and I wish they had gotten more time together and I would have been totally down for some romance between them. Cas/Ishim, I can see why you might ship them. I love the actor for Ishim and I think there's some fairly interesting history between Cas and Ishim that's interesting to think about. And I mean before she turned put to be a torturing reaper psychopath, I also did kind of ship Cas/April. Of course, once the torture started, I changed my stance on that but what they had in the beginning I thought was real nice and sweet.
There are so many great ships within all of Team Free Will and I do kind of feel bad for those who are so one-track minded on Destiel because they are literally missing out on a gold mind of shipping fun. I almost want to tell those people, stop taking shipping so seriously and remember to have fun with it every once in a while, you know?
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orionsangel86 · 5 years
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Do you still believe that Destiel will be canon? I've seen so much negativity about it lately and it's making me lose hope.
I got the above ask about a little while ago and I’ve hesitated to answer it for several reasons. 
Then yesterday, the boys announced the final season of the show next year, and last night I got this ask:
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I’ve blocked this asshole obviously, but this nasty ask full of lies and hate has motivated me to answer the first.
First of all, let me be very VERY clear here:
No one has ever said Destiel is TOTALLY happening. Please get that right out of your heads. The only people claiming this bullshit are the ones who always attack meta writers and its the same old crap every time. Claiming we “gaslight” fans is a new one though. That word has really become in vogue lately hasn’t it?
No one is gaslighting anyone. I don’t get why people don’t understand this. All we do in this little meta community is talk among ourselves in the same way people have been talking about literature and media for centuries. It’s up to the reader to make their own assumptions. Our meta is not infallible. Every fan is responsible for their own expectations. Do not blame meta writers if you can’t manage yours. No one is claiming that they speak the ultimate FACTS. We only ever voice our opinions and interpretations because it is our passion to discuss and analyse and speculate. For anyone to hate on us for that just fills me with pity for those people tbh. I think you have to be a pretty pathetic person to send another person anonymous messages like the one above.
I won’t address the other bullshit in that crappy ask. It’s all just garbage spewed by a hater for the pure purpose to be hateful and try to get a rise out of me. But it has got me thinking about my current opinion of Destiel. Which is why I have finally decided to answer this ask.
Do I think it will be made textual? Right now I will admit that I am cautiously optimistic. The current narrative and direction of the story definitely has the potential for Destiel to be realised. Though I admit this opinion rests almost solely on knowing that Castiel’s deal with the Empty Entity will be a focus for season 15. If Cas never made that deal, I am not sure I would have the same faith. Having said that, there is still so much unspoken between Dean and Cas, and since this is now the endgame, I would like to think that the writers may choose to finally tie up some of these loose plot threads that have been gathering since season 8.
I live in the camp that believes that the creative team have intentionally been weaving Destiel into the narrative of the show for years with the hope that they can get a green light from the execs to bring it textual at some point. Destiel has got far too close to the surface level line for anyone to dare claim Destiel shippers are “delusional” now, even the antis stopped saying that in season 12 and instead cried “pandering” of the writing team. I still maintain my view that they crossed a line in Season 12 and in what I like to call the “season 12/13 escalation” which pushed Destiel to one of the main story plot lines and really drummed home just how much Dean and Cas mean to each other. They can’t ever now claim the fans imagined it after that. Too many people saw the escalation as romantic for them to do that.
So my honest opinion is that they must follow through on their intentions. Its the only way the show will rid itself of that horrible accusation of queerbaiting. Technically it is completely unfair to accuse any story of queerbaiting whilst that story is still being told. Only once the story concludes should we be assessing it and deciding whether to paint it with that brush. 
Yet SPN is a strange beast in that there are several factors to consider even then. I have faith and a lot of respect for the writing team, several of whom are LGBTQ+ people themselves. I just don’t believe that Dabb, Yokey, or Bobo would let us down here. They certainly aren’t intentionally queerbaiting us. I believe they are trying to tell this story whilst fighting tooth and nail behind the scenes with the CW suits to get Destiel approved. I also believe that now we have a solid end date in sight they will fight even harder for it, with the argument that they have nothing to lose by bringing Destiel to text and everything to gain (save for maybe the show being blacklisted in a couple of homophobic countries). Not bringing Destiel to text would actually be a far worse business decision at this point. Hopefully the suits are smart enough to agree to this - they should be, especially if they don’t want to appear completely hypocritical in light of their recent Dare to Defy campaign. 
So if it doesn’t happen I certainly WILL be angry, upset, and furious, and I will drag the CW through the mud all over social media and personally write scathing letters to all media and entertainment outlets I can get hold of to bring attention to how hypocritical they are - but what I won’t be doing is accusing Dabb & Co of queerbaiting, because I just don’t think that is what they are doing.
I consider it more like a Wayward Sisters situation. The writing team want it as much as we do, but the real decision lies with the suits. They’ll be the ones to blame. 
There is of course still the chance that we could get an ambiguous ending - one that is easily interpreted as Destiel but not obvious enough for the most stringent of homophobes to pick up on. I have very mixed feelings about this, but if I’m being realistic, this is probably the likeliest option. This show has always tried to cater to its entire audience, even though it knows that it’s audience has drastically different views on how it should end. An ending that attempts to cater to all, even if the story suffers for it, is still a very large possibility. As much as I like to believe that Dabb doesn’t give a shit about people bitching on Twitter, we have to be realistic and admit that Dabb doesn’t have all the power behind the scenes. Bob Singer and Mark Pedowitz are likely big influencers in how the story will end, and I can’t say I have much faith in either of them to actually “go where the story takes them”.
Hearing this final season announcement, I have a suspicion that the boys and the writing team already knew since at least when episode 300 was being scripted - simply because several things said in the show recently are now looking rather suspicious. John’s speech in episode 300 and Cas’s speech in 14x14 are both beautifully heartfelt statements about loss and enjoying the time we have with those we love. It all suddenly hits very close to home. 
So if we go by this theory, then I expect the next few episodes to be very interesting in terms of what they may reveal for the road to endgame - as this is very much the road we are now on, wherever it may lead. Misha calling the finale “epic” is something else I am heavily side eyeing. If Destiel does get a green light, then I expect we will start to see the signs of this - if not in the coming episodes, then in early season 15. We should see another escalation similar to what we saw in s12/13. Keep an eye out for these potential signs, and if they don’t appear, then we need to prepare ourselves for the worst, and resign ourselves to the fact that the suits probably got scared.
But remember, this is all just my opinion. Take authority over your own expectations, as it is impossible for me to make promises over things I do not know. Whether you have hope or not, you have to deal with it however you choose. Just... don’t be like that anon. Never be like that.
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zmediaoutlet · 5 years
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you saw endgame! please share with the class! assemble!
haha, okay, well–here’s some thoughts, since we’re far enough out that I don’t think this will be too spoilery for people – but it’s gonna be super long, so it’s under a cut, either way:
Well, it was–spectacular! In that it was literally a spectacle, for one thing. I had pretty lowered expectations after not particularly enjoying Captain Marvel (it was fine, but boring) or Infinity War for that matter (better-made, but the stakes were obviously nonexistent because we knew something was going to be done). Here, though… I just really, thoroughly enjoyed it. It was thoughtfully done, well-executed, and just as a moment of payoff for those of us who have been here all ten years… It was just really something. I saw Iron Man on opening weekend in 2008 and fell in love, and even if I haven’t loved every single movie since then, I feel like Marvel just sent me a love letter, and I was so–glad. What a good movie-going experience it was.
I say all that having seen SO MUCH rending of garments and gnashing of teeth from the !stans and shippers, but all of that’s so very much missing the point. This is the story of *this series*, this great arc that led to this point. The thing to remember is that the MCU is fanfiction itself–it’s based off of characters who are based off of characters from a canon that’s been rebooted and re-blended about a billion times. This is the story this group of fic-writers, essentially, chose to tell, and I think they did it pretty damn well. You can write your own fic where Steve weeps into Bucky’s hair for 70 years if you want to. This story isn’t that, and that’s okay. (Genuinely, if fandomites could take like half a step back they’d be much happier people. I know it’s hard–I’ve been in a process of letting go with SPN that I haven’t really managed to do well–but c’mon. Don’t get so het up about it.)
Some things:
1) I was genuinely impressed with the time travel mechanism, especially as it bounced meta-ly off of other examples we’ve seen in pop culture. Finally, a story that allows ACTUAL alternate-universe time travel instead of boring-ass time loops. I’ve always thought it was spectacularly dumb when the worry is “but if I kill myself in the past, I’ll die now!” Nope! Avoided! Thank you, folks. It’s kind of weirding me out that so many people online seem confused about how the time travel worked, but it was incredibly clean and I just want to high five the people involved. The one thing that seemed like a plot hole was Old Steve at the end, with the implication that he was co-existent in this timeline for 70 years (and did nothing about Hydra??)–but then the Russos said that they assume he went to an alternate timeline, and then came back to this one to give Sam the shield. It wasn’t on screen either way so you can make your own headcanon, but I’m good with that. So: successful time travel. Hoo-fucking-rah.
2) Thor. This was the one real spoiler I had going in, that Thor Got Fat. All this weeping about how he’d been mistreated by the narrative. So, I was pre-emptively worried… and then ended up not thinking it was that bad. Look, I’m a chubster, I’m well-aware of how sensitive that can be for people. What I found interesting about it was that it was, yes, kind of a visual joke, just because The God of Abs was a pudge, but it was actually treated remarkably kindly by every character for whom that would be in-character. Meaning, sure, Rocket makes fun of him, and Rhodey’s kind of a dick (because Rhodey’s like that with Tony, even)–but Bruce, Steve, and even Tony all deal with him quite gently. That scene where he tries to volunteer for the gauntlet and Tony carefully holds him back was so sweet and sad. Poor guy. It was a good exploration of the depths that the last ~10 years of his life have pummeled him into. It wasn’t that he was fat, it’s that he was broken. People will make up their own minds about the equivalencies there and what’s being implied, but it was a good visual metaphor as far as I was concerned. If he were “just” a sad drunk no one would have believed that he wasn’t ready for what was coming, and he wasn’t. But he got better, because his friends really were there for him. (Also, Korg was wearing Taika’s pineapple shirt! I hope there are nice fics where Korg and Maik gently just play XBox with Thor because that’s all they can do for him.) 
Also on Thor, re: Thor/Loki – more rending of garments about how he didn’t go see Loki. Let’s think about this: you’re on a top-secret time mission to save the universe (Time Heist!), and you go see your trickster god little brother who, yes, you miss, but who also hates you at this point in his life. That’ll go well. I completely understand why there wasn’t a scene. The scene with Frigga was all I needed there.
3) Steeb: I’ve never been the… biggest fan of Steve. I mean, he’s fine. His character is caught awkwardly between the man, Steve Rogers, who abhors bullies and will break rules to do what’s right, and between The Man, Captain America, who kinda Is Rules and needs to do what’s right but also represents an idea greater than himself. There’s a lot of wonderful tension there, but the movies haven’t particularly capitalized on it, and when they’ve tried it’s been in a lip-servicey way.
That said, this movie deals with it really, really well, I think. At the beginning he’s trying to live, and isn’t doing a great job of it. The plan they come up with is simple, perfect heroism – he’s not representing an Ideal, but he is one: he’s the man and the ideal simultaneously, that striving toward right will eventually create a more just, fairer world. If sacrifice is required he’s willing to make it. That scene of him standing alone against the massed forces of Thanos with his broken shield strapped tight to his arm is like a distillation of who Captain America should be. I’m so glad we got that, at the end.
As someone who doesn’t invest in Steve/Bucky but who completely understands it, I also see no issue with the thing where he goes back to Peggy. Bucky understands, too. That moment where they hug and he tells Steve, so-softly, “I’ll miss you,” oh man, oof. Bucky knows. I hope there’s a lot of pining!Bucky in that fandom, y’all are missing out on a STELLAR opportunity if not. Especially pining!Bucky where Steve knows and can only do his best to be Bucky’s friend. Steve going back isn’t out of character, either, despite the clamoring. He misses Peggy, he misses peace. Who knows what they got up to in that alternate timeline–maybe he and Peg went and routed Hydra early, maybe they saved Bucky, maybe they had a WWThreesome with Buck, whatever. But Natasha and Tony both told Steve to “get a life,” and he finally got to. He’d done enough. He earned it.
4) OH MY GOD, NATASHA. What a character arc. I friggin’ adore the mirroring of her and Clint’s stories. The brutal assassin who gained a family and learned what it meant to love something so much she wanted to sacrifice herself for it–those scenes on Vormire were heartbreaking. I’m also super glad that the movie paused, after that. Someone called her death “fridging” – wow. No. She was a hero, as much as Tony was. Whatever it takes.
5) Tony. Holy shit. In a lot of ways this was his movie–in a more meta way, it was RDJ’s movie, and Favreau’s, and Feige’s. It all started with Iron Man, and that’s where it ended. There wasn’t a stinger scene because we got that funeral and then the moment in the credits with the originals signing the screen, and of course they saved Robert for last. The success of this movie is really a testament to the risk everyone took, way back then. It sure as hell paid off.
“You wouldn’t lay down on a grenade to save your men,” Steve said. How many different ways can Tony prove him wrong? At least once more. ;-;  I’m just super emotional about the whole thing. So many good moments all leading up to what happened. Little Morgan in his helmet, Pepper’s faith. Steve’s faith, for that matter. (I still have a tiny pocket of my heart reserved for Steve/Tony, no matter how non-canon it is. What a great relationship they have.) The panic and misery when Carol brought them back, calling Steve a liar, and Steve just–gentle with him, again, and how there was no anger there anymore. Argh. 
That’s the thing that I think I appreciated about the movie most, in the end. Despite all the craziness, the spectacle, the easter eggs slinging at you left and right (”Hail Hydra.” !!!!!!!!!!!!!), what I loved most is that in the face of this ultimate goal, this literally universe-saving moment, the stakes were actually felt because the characters (and actors, and script) sold how unimaginably important it was. Interpersonal bickering fell by the wayside; any dumb conflicts just washed away. No drama for its own sake, or manufactured arguments. Just–working together. The Avengers we hoped to get in the aftermath of the first team movie. We got ‘em, finally, even if we lost a lot too.
This all sounds super elegiac, I guess. It sort of is. It wasn’t a perfect movie by any means, but it might be perfect for what it meant to do, and what it set out to do. There were a couple of little nitpicky things that I might change, but they’re so small so as not even to be mentioned. And so many more tiny moments that I loved, loved, loved. It’s the first one of these movies that I’ve wanted to rewatch in literal years, and that’s making me really happy all on its own. I’m just left with this utter… satisfaction. Not sad, just happy that they made it worth my while.
Put another way: when I was leaving Shazam I felt like I’d spent about 4 hours wasting my time. When I was leaving Endgame, I felt like it had been an instant. Just yay, all ‘round. I loved it three thousand.
What did you think?
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Lebanon reactions
-Fidgety Sam strikes again. And with a teddy bear no less!
-Why on Earth would this guy circle around so that his back was to Dean??? Does he have no common sense???
-But this guy was human, right? A murderer yes, but human? But they still came after him. What happened to their “we only kill monsters” schtick? Is it because they didn’t want police officers to potentially get cursed by the shop’s objects? Or did the human thing just... not even cross their minds?
-Campbell, huh? Well, glad the show remembered that them going around as the Winchesters would be bad. Lol.
-“The kid with the weird bambi look.” Yup. That’s Jack alright. 😅
-Is she gonna steal the car?
-Yup. She’s stealing the car.
-Cloooooooown hand.
-Did this kid just walk into the bathroom just to wash his hands?
-Well that was a fun welcome back.
-John is coping with this surprisingly well.
-Sam looks so small right now. He’s sort of hunched in a bit (and struggling to meet John’s eyes), and it’s such a huge contrast to how Dean and John are sitting. I hate it but I love and it’s absolutely perfect as far as acting choices go. Even if it does break my heart just a little...
-Awww. John’s expression right when he heard Mary’s voice. I’d almost forgotten just how good an actor JDM is.
-So much for her thing with AU Bobby, eh? Lol.
-“Give me that.” Hmmm. I mean, I get it. Especially as Sam’s the one trying to be rational here. But that line does give some powerful insight into how Dean subconsciously views the family. And I’m not saying that in a critical sense ‘cos, like I said, I get it. It’s an entirely valid reaction. But it’s also very interesting.
-Do mine eyes deceive me??? The show giving Sam a solo scene with John??? Which is true to both of their characters and acknowledges their canon history in a meaningful way??? Y.E.S.
-MY HEART WAS NOT READY FOR THIS!!! JARED AND JDM ARE SO GOOOOOOD!!!!! GO ON WITHOUT ME I’M DEAD!!! I MAY JUST HAVE TO LOOP BACK AROUND LATER AND REWATCH THIS SCENE ON AN ENDLESS LOOP!
-THAT LITTLE DOUBLE LOOK AT THE HAND ON THE SHOULDER!!! 😭😭😭😭😭
-...Okay the following scene with Sam asking Dean if he wants company is also kinda cute... Even if things are probably about to go horribly wrong.
-SAM IN GLASSES AND A POLO NECK! IT’S HILARIOUS YET PERFECT AT THE SAME TIME!!!
-Is this really what the SPN writers think lawyer!Sam would’ve turned out like??? Or did they just want to see Jared giving a cheesy TED talk? Lol.
-But wait. Are they saying this is what would’ve happened if John hadn’t died? That doesn’t seem to factor in all of the other things which were completely out of their control. Like... the angels would still have got involved, right?
...Eh, you know what? I’m just gonna ignore that for now. Just go with the flow. Wing it.
-So Castiel is with Zachariah. Where is Jack? THIS IS SOMETHING I NEED TO KNOW IMMEDIATELY!
-...Putting a brief pin in the winging it to say that an apocalypse plan which goes bust just because the dad of the two guys involved disappears really can’t have been much of a plan. I mean... John wasn’t involved. At all. It wasn’t even his blood which needed to be shed in Hell. And the demons and angels would still have been able to manipulate Sam and Dean’s lives without John there (that’s mostly what they did anyway). I think I’m just gonna have to say it’s the pearl thing stretching plausibility in order to fulfill Dean’s wish.
-(sings) Sam out here savin’ the day. Yeah yeah yeah, I luuuuuuuuurve it. Sam kickin’ butt and savin’ the day- beating up angels I luuuuuuuuuuuurve it.
-It’s an interesting philosophical question which is being raised here (though apparently not by the episode itself, ‘cos they’re not saying a word about it apparently). ‘Cos no doubt they’re gonna send John back. But, really, in the grand scheme of things, is that really for the best? I mean, yeah, Sam and Dean wouldn’t be together, but the rest of the world wouldn’t have had to suffer through apocalypses and the like. But then, on the other hand, would this cause the fates to get involved again? Kill a bunch of people like in the Titanic episode?
-I do appreciate that both brothers are getting a chance to have a heart-to-heart with John.
-Awkwaaaaard.
-Jared. Is. King. Of. Micro. Expressions. (Specifically talking about the ‘blamed dad’ moment here, but this can also be taken in a more general sense.)
-Actively trying to prevent my bitterness from surging up over some of these lines which seem to be painting the brothers’ bond as perfect and wholesome instead of the toxic, abusive thing we’ve seen on screen over the past several seasons. This is the only acknowledgement I will make of that in this post, ‘cos I’ve been enjoying the rest of the episode.
-I’ve heard so many comments through the years about Jensen’s single man tears and the like. And he is definitely very skilled at them. But I feel like Jared’s crying skills are highly underrated. Props to him for this scene! Such natural tears!!! They’re all good cryers!
-I wonder how they decided that Sam would be the one to effectively be in charge of killing John this time around. Did they discuss it as a group? Did he volunteer to spare the others from that burden? Did John ask him to do it? THESE ARE THINGS I NEED TO KNOW!
-Dean’s flinch was painful. As were Sam’s finger twitches. And Mary’s gasps. And John’s smile.
-But where is Jack?
_____
Okay. I really liked that episode. Couple of weird questions raised and things which don’t quite make sense outside of just the pearl’s mojo being all hand-wavy, but yeah. I loved Sam. I liked Dean. I liked Mary. I liked John. I felt for them all. Emotions were experienced. Bravo, and hats off all round on the acting front.
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moronic-malkavian · 5 years
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Fandom of Family [pt.3]
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Here’s where I step on some toes and possibly have some hot takes. So, again, open for conversation. (@Malkavian_Rainy) or here of course.
The first ship I mentioned was “J2″ people who are so toxic, I needed a gas mask and a HAZMAT suit.[insert ‘not all’ comment] There’s a reason for that: whenever I hear about them, it’s never good. I’d be pleased to talk to a J2 shipper that doesn’t want to rip my head off for not liking what they like.
All right, let’s dive in again.
Destiel. I like Destiel. My first and so far only ship I have or want for that matter. There’s a good majority of people that are “desti-hellers” or whatever you wanna’ call the toxic people that ship Dean/Cas. I again, stand by my previous statements regarding what I said about the J2 shippers. 
One of my biggest problems with Destiel/DeanCas shippers is some are willingly going out of their way to read between the lines of the show and parallels of such a relationship existing. If you want to do that, great, there’s no way for me to stop you, for I am just a lowly lurker. I will openly admit that I am biased to this over others because I like it, but I can also have problems with things that I like. A lot of DeanCas fanfic is just fuckin’ weird. Be as kinky as you want, if non-consensual is your thing...I probably hate you...but I won’t try to stop you. Leave fan fiction where it belongs; on the internet.
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^ but I know there’s a lot more than 3k, that’s just a basic as fuck search, and in fairness, I looked up;
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If you read/write smut, go you. I do the same from time to time, I’m not trying to shame anyone. 
I have been to two SPN Conventions and I’ve seen videos of the bigger conventions and it makes me cringe when someone steps up to the mic just to ask about Dean & Castiel being in lust/love. In that moment, you have made 98% of the people in there uncomfortable including Misha and Jensen even more so. Both of them have teased the ship, but they don’t owe you an answer that you’d like. You, just like J2 shippers, are also not entitled to their feelings, their lives. If they are against signing your fan art, or flat out say no, be upset sure but don’t hold a fucking grudge over them and raise a stink on Twitter. You are not better than any other member if you do that. 
You also, shouldn’t accuse runners of the show as being homophobic, or “queer coding”. The characters do not belong to you. Sure you can have input or ideas about the show or whatever, but just because you think Dean is bisexual & have what you say to be, proof of it doesn’t mean it should be canon. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn’t, but that’s Dean, not Jensen.
Now let’s hit up some Cockles. 
There’s a million channels on YouTube that make videos that paint it in a light that it does exist, and boy oh boy does Danneel show us her bondage nails and talk about loving Misha, and feeding into the ship existing. Fine, cool. I find her adorable, more adorable than her own husband. There’s probably just as many Tumblr/Twitter accounts raving about DeanCas and/or Cockles and how it TOTALLY EXISTS and there’s no convincing them otherwise. I don’t want an in-show relationship to exist just for fan service. 
If the writers admit to using subtext for this relationship, coo’ coo’ let that shit happen, but if the show ends and DeanCas isn’t a thing, you’ll survive.  Trust me. You’ll be okay. You still have Fan fiction. 
The only thing I truly WANT is for all of them to be happy in their lives, whatever that contains. Let’s prove people outside of the fandom we aren’t all crazy trash that are waaaaaaaay too interested in fictional characters sexuality. 
Being bisexual myself, that would seem like more of an insult than a good thing to pander. Sure, more realistic representation would be fantastic, but I don’t want that representation to be just thinly veiled fan service.
 Yes? No? Maybe? Thoughts?
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