#infinity train analysis

[dalfield]

was talking about music with yellow and thought of something interesting

so this on simon's face is a sine wave. it's the symbol of the apex, and it's also the wavetype that was on amelia's conductor suit thingy.

there are multiple types of waves in audio, here's the most common:

sine, square, triangle, and sawtooth. sine waves are known as the "natural wave" in part because natural sounds are made from sine waves. square, triangle, and sawtooth waves don't occur in nature, from what i understand. i think this can be connected to the apex's worldview. the apex prioritize 'natural' (i.e. not made by the train) beings above all else.

moreover, simon's motif in the book 3 soundtrack is an electric guitar. while acoustic guitars produce sound in a sine wave, electric guitars are often distorted in unnatural ways, for example, into becoming a square wave.

i think there's some interesting symbolism here. simon starts off as a "natural" kid, but grew obsessed with power and influence on the train. as he did, his number rose to the point that he was unnatural. even if he wanted to get off the train, it would take years and years for him to do so, making him almost like a denizen. it distorted his humanity in the view of the train, much like an amplifier distorting a sine wave.

i also think there's some symbolism in the fact that grace was represented by the electric guitar as well in the first half of the season, but nearing the end her motif changes to vox synths. not only is she separating herself from simon and regaining her own sense of identity, but she goes from being represented by a "natural" (acoustic) instrument mimicking an artificial (electric) one to an artificial (electric) instrument mimicking an acoustic one. i think there's a sense of irony in all of this.

#infinity train #infinity train book 3 #simon laurent #grace monroe #infinity train theory #infinity train analysis

[fermented-writers-block]

Does anyone else still wonder what exactly was meant by the Steward telling Tulip to return to her seat? Especially as part of the canonical series, not just as an artifact from the pilot’s script?

Throughout the series and even out of universe production comments, it’s clear that passengers are intended to move through cars to ideally grow from their experiences. But “return to your seat” implies going backwards to some kind of assigned “seat” in a specific car, as is the usual connotations of that phrase when used in real transportation. And I do mean going backwards in this case, not the possibility of having to go forwards, however contradictory that is to the train’s goal.

By the design of the cars on the train and the orientation of all puzzles we’ve seen, it’s organized to funnel passengers ever forwards. Tricks like using Randall or a harpoon pack are more likely than not an unaccounted for oversight on the part of the train’s creators. Thus I doubt they anticipated that the right combination of orbs would potentially allow passengers to do so.

So given that the Steward was acting on Amelia’s command at that point in time, it begs the question; was that line something she told it to say like when she threatened the Cat with it after losing Tulip? Or was it an already pre-existing line in the Steward’s programming that Amelia found and then merely set it to say to any passenger that interrupts its orb collecting?

In the latter case, it carries a rather curious incongruity in relation to the way the train works. Why would a Steward have such a line in its programming? Where would a passenger’s seat be? Under what circumstances would it have actually been said? Since there used to be very many Stewards for the passengers, would it have been said as a train wide message during some kind of emergency or temporary disturbance, not unlike passenger plane pilots warning people about upcoming turbulence?

If it is the former, then Amelia probably just copied from what she knows is usually said on regular trains. In that case, it was never part of a command One might have given under unknown circumstances. That would turn that line into a meta sneak peek at Amelia’s mindset; how she metaphorically never left her “seat” from when she boarded the train in her grief. How she thought Tulip would be open to going back on her progress and living in a fantasy. How she then implicitly might have projected similar thoughts onto other passengers, especially the ones that interrupt her work to recreate her old life.

Either way, what do you guys think of the line?

#infinity train #infinity train meta #infinity train analysis #the steward #amelia hughes

[selenestarmoon]

Grace and Simon, Kreese and Terry: A Destroyed Friendship

What would you think if I told you that this friendship

is similar to this one?

So that you can understand it better, here I will explain the similarities between both friendships and the possible fates of Kreese and Terry if they follow the same route as Grace and Simon:

GRACE MONROE AND JOHN KRESSE - PURPOSE, GUILT AND REDEMPTION

Grace came from a home where she was ignored by her parents and she could only get their attention through standards that they put on her and she got into trouble just to get their attention and the train picks her up and the fact of being in an unknown place without knowing what besides almost dying if it weren't for the fact that the false conductor (Amelia) inadvertently saved her, makes Grace consider that the train belongs to the passengers and that the denizens of the train have no value and are just decorations.

Kreese on the other hand had a hard life: her mother committed suicide and she had to work to survive and her girlfriend Betsy gave her hope for a happy life. Then comes the Vietnam War, Betsy's death and the rejection of both the government and American citizens towards the soldiers who fought in Vietnam and this ends up marking him for life with his ideology: peace is just an illusion, if not you attack first and hard or if you just don't win then they will kill you.

They both had a difficult life and had traumatic events (Grace being saved by the fake driver from almost dying and Kreese because of everything she lived through during the Vietnam War) that shaped their way of thinking (with Grace it is that the passengers are the only ones that have value and the denizens are only accessories and with Kreese it's that if you do not win and attack first they kill you) but you will wonder why they create Apex and Cobra Kai? The answer is simple: they seek to give meaning to their traumatic experiences and, by extension, they seek purpose in the current environment they find themselves in because if their traumas and pain are meaningless then they will have suffered for nothing.

Also during their stays on the train and in Vietnam respectively, they meet Simon Laurent and Terry Silver who will be their closest friends by sharing their trauma and therefore end up sharing their ideology and will spend years spreading their toxic ideologies to their friends (Simon and Terry) and the younger generation. Grace and Kreese think they're helping the younger generation survive when in reality they're harming them with toxic ideologies that will only bring them trouble in society.

Grace and Kreese continue with this way of life until they meet someone who will not have much of an impact at first but as time goes on will start a snowball effect that will make them question their ideologies: Johnny Lawrence and Hazel.

At first Grace and Kreese have a good relationship with Hazel and Johnny and even come to love them like family (Grace loves Hazel like a little sister and Kreese considers Johnny his son) but they constantly let them down to the point of that Hazel and Johnny don't trust them and want nothing to do with them anymore, this makes Grace and Kreese realize that they have ruined their relationship with them to an irreparable level but these aren't the only relationships they ruined to that level because they also failed in their relationships with Simon and Terry by manipulating and lying to them all the time not to mention that they feel displaced by Hazel and Johnny until they (Simon and Terry) get tired of Grace and Kreese, betray them and lock them up in prisons (Grace is locked in a tape with her memories and Kreese is arrested for a crime he didn't commit). All this, plus the guilt they feel for all their mistakes, forces them to recognize that they have failed and that they need to change for the better, Grace recognizing her mistakes and wanting to change not only herself but also the young people she has failed and lied to and Kreese will (possibly) have to do the same thing Grace did if he wants to fix his life and his relationship with Johnny because if he doesn't, Kreese will live miserable and alone for the rest of his life.

SIMON LAURENT AND TERRY SILVER - LOYALTY, DENIAL AND MADNESS

On the other hand, Simon and Terry have followed Grace and Kreese for as long as we've known them, but why are they so loyal to them? That's because Grace and Kreese saved them from dying in the past and Simon and Terry feel indebted to them but Grace and especially Kreese share their views with them and create Apex and Cobra Kai as a result, teaching them a dysfunctional ideology. In addition to taking advantage of Simon and Terry's loyalty by abusing it, manipulating them and (especially Kreese) mistreating them.

Simon and Terry are willing to prove their loyalty to Grace and Kreese to the point that they do horrible things to do it (Simon kills Tuba behind Grace's back and Terry almost kills Johnny) and this makes Grace and Kreese angry and they don't know. This is because Grace and Kreese are inadvertently changing due to their relationship with Hazel and Johnny, and by extension, are doing the opposite of the ideologies that govern their lives and their respective organizations (Kreese has compassion for Johnny and saves him from dying and Grace shows grief and pity for Tuba, a train denizen) so Simon and Terry feel like they were lied to all along and as King said in The Owl House season 2 episode 16 Hollow Mind:

King: No one wants to think they've wasted their life following the wrong person.

And this is what happens with Simon and Terry, they don't want to change because that would imply recognizing that they have been following a flawed ideology, a lie and they don't want to feel that their loyalty was for a lie, was for nothing and they choose to blame Grace and Kreese for betraying what they want to believe is the truth.

Also Simon and Terry realize that Grace and Kreese's change is motivated by Hazel and Johnny and at the same time they feel displaced by them.

All of the above (the constant exploitation and manipulation, feeling cheated and betrayed, not wanting to recognize that their ideology doesn't work, and feeling that they were displaced by someone else) makes Simon and Terry tire of Grace and Kreese, betraying and locking them up while they usurp their positions as leaders of their organizations (Apex and Cobra Kai) and while this is happening Grace and (possibly) Kreese reflect on their mistakes and are willing to change while Simon and Terry continue to refuse to acknowledge their mistakes to the point that this effort for denying the truth and refusing to recognize his mistakes turns into madness, making Simon turn the Apex into a cult himself and wants to kill Grace when he returns and possibly Terry ends up turning Cobra Kai into a cult himself too and wants to kill to Kreese when he gets out of jail. All this leads to Simon's death and if Terry continues with that same way of thinking he could end up like Simon.

Kreese and Terry are the toxic versions of Grace and Simon because Kreese is what Grace would have been if she hadn't realized her mistakes and that her way of thinking was wrong and Terry is what Simon would have been if the latter had remained alive and would have returned from the infinity train to the real world.

In conclusion, Grace and possibly Kreese recognize their mistakes and are willing to change, taking a step to redeem themselves while Simon and possibly Terry refuse to change and this only leads them to step into the abyss.

#infinity train #infinity train spoilers #infinity train meta #infinity train analysis #cobra kai #cobra kai spoilers #cobra kai meta #cobra kai analysis #grace monroe #simon laurent #john kreese #terry silver

[alicethenobody]

How Ryan and Min-Gi put the lessons they learned on the train into practice:

In The Twin Tapes during the backyard concert Ryan and Min keep looking at the audience for validation about what they’re performing and are visibly upset when nobody seems impressed with Cat In A Toque.

But in Train To Nowhere, they barely look at the audience at all, instead they only pay attention to each other because they realized that they’re the only audience they need. And when it’s revealed that only a small chunk of people really paid attention they’re not upset by it, because they realized they don’t need validation from others, they just need to keep doing what they love together no matter what anyone thinks.

As Min said, they’ll never stop rocking.

#infinity train #ryan akagi #min gi park #rymin #infinity train book 4 #character analysis #media analysis

[lakesbian]

Opinion about Lake's actions? I saw a tiny few people hating them for what they did and that's an instant red flag lol

when she kills those cops, shoves that dude out of his pod, & tries to take that girl's spot in the number line, it's all very clear allegory for the fact that marginalized people quite often can't achieve basic recognition of humanity in a system which oppresses them without inconveniencing, displacing, or even having no option but to inflict harm upon those who oppress them or are directly benefited by their oppression. sometimes you have to crack a few eggs (skulls) to make an omelet (achieve liberation). and this isn't immoral or deserving of hatred because 1. the oppressive system is also Regularly Enacting Extreme Violence, just in a sanctioned, invisibilized, and socially acceptable/ignored way and 2. it's the direct result of oppressed people being coerced and suppressed into a situation where they have no route to survive/escape that violence but to utilize violence as a tool themselves. so it's just very silly when people act like ms. 13yo girl manhunted by cops yelling about how they want to kill her is Ethically Problematique for not simply laying down and dying quietly or spending a million years trying to find a way to escape the train that didn't involve displacing any of the people it was prioritizing over her. sound of point going Whooosh as it soars over heads. blame the train forcing the kid to do that to survive not the kid. i reiterate shes 13 have you all seen how small 13yos are theyre like pretty fuckin small

#ask #infinity train #b2 #analysis

[artbyblastweave]

In terms of personal questions that seem like a disaster in the making to turn into one of those stock fandom round-robin questions, “What would get you on the Infinity Train” feels roughly analogous to “What would your trigger event be?”

#wildbow #parahumans #worm #thoughts #infinity train #your periodic reminder that my header is an infinity train character #the one made of the arms of his murdered victims #fandom meta #analysis #worm web serial

[trojanteapot]

INFINITY TRAIN CLASSPECTS 

In this post I will be merging my two "hyperfixations" / "special interests" by assigning Homestuck Mythological Roles (a.k.a. Classpects) to some of the Infinity Train characters.

What the fuck is a Classpect?

Classpects are like Zodiac signs or Hogwarts Houses except excruciatingly convoluted, because it’s from Homestuck. I will attempt to simplify them as much as possible. 

Basically every character receives a title in this format:

[Class Role] of [Aspect]

which, in Homestuck canon, gives the character sweet reality warping powers!

Some examples include the Witch of Space being able to shrink entire planets, or the Heir of Breath whipping up tornadoes out of nowhere! One of the coolest examples in canon was the Rogue of Void can steal non-existence from an object and make it real!

But the titles are also assigned based on a character's personality, goals, how they interact with others, and their overall character arc. And because they are Zodiac-adjacent, it also means that classpects can be applied to any sort of character in any media in existence.

Why are you doing classpects for Infinity Train you cringey Hussie simp?

First off, I don’t care for Andrew Hussie beyond the fact that they authored Homestuck, and one can certainly argue it wasn’t entirely on their own. This is an irrelevant tangent.

Secondly, both the video game Sburb in Homestuck, and the Train in Infinity Train are essentially character arc generators. 

This means it’s extremely straightforward to assign classpects onto these Train peeps because their character arcs have been spelled out for us, in the same way that Sburb spells out the character arcs for the Homestuck characters when they play the game.

SUMMARY OF CLASSES

A Class determines how a character is, or acts, or behaves, they are analogous to D&D classes. This system is based on the one developed by @optimisticduelist2 and @homestuckexamination

Role Active Passive Description*

Create Maid Sylph Create or Mend for self / others

Destroy Prince Bard Destroy or Subdue for self / others

Change Witch Heir Change or Manipulate for self / others

Know Mage Seer Understand or Learn for self / others

Give Page Knight Give or Serve to self / others

Take Thief Rogue Take or Steal for self / others

*Note: Just because a character is in a passive or active class does NOT mean they must ALWAYS use their aspect in a selfish or selfless manner!

SUMMARY OF ASPECTS

Aspects are analogous to classical elements (Water, Earth, Fire, Air, etc). They come in pairs that counterbalance each other like Yin and Yang. I also try to summarize their core concept in as little words as possible. (Note if you are using the dark theme some of the font colours might not show up properly. Just highlight it if that's the case.)

Space - Creativity Time - Inevitability

Light - Knowledge Void - Mystery

Life - Abundance Doom - Futility

Hope - Faith Rage - Chaos

Mind - Motives/Decisions Heart - Identity/Emotions

Breath - Freedom Blood - Bonds

***Key point: Thinking about the character’s Character Arc is the best way to classpect them!!!***

If their character arc revolves (mainly) around themselves, they are an ACTIVE class.

If their character arc revolves (mainly) around other people, they are a PASSIVE class.

CHARACTERS AND THEIR CLASSPECTS

Tulip Olsen – Mage of Light

“One who knows Light for themselves.” 

Tulip gained the most knowledge of the Train other than Amelia out of the main characters, and her understanding of the Train (the world around her) as well as her own issues allowed her to free herself from the Train. Her knowledge inadvertently led to a better Train system through her teaching her knowledge to One-One (mages are great teachers).

You may be wondering, if her knowledge also benefited others, why is Tulip a mage and not a seer? That’s because Tulip took the initiative to seek the knowledge of her own volition (i.e. actively), and is more open to accepting and assimilating new knowledge. 

Seers on the other hand, receive a ton of knowledge passively, but it takes them time to parse the amount of information, and seers tend to struggle to understand the meaning behind the information they receive (Rose, the Seer of Light in Homestuck suffered the brunt of this early on, and Terezi, the Seer of Mind, had this struggle in the middle to the end of the webcomic. Also see the entry for Simon).

Amelia Hughes – Maid of Doom

“One who creates Doom for themselves.”

I don’t think I need to explain the ‘creating doom for herself’ part of Amelia’s whole schtick, since doom is tied to futility and suffering. However, looking more deeply into it, you can say that she has created so much suffering on the Train that to make amends (hehe mends), she needs to go and fix the mistakes she made, thus also mending her own Doom and mending through Doom. 

By taking Hazel in, not only is she mending the doom that she had brought onto Hazel by creating her in the first place, but she also averted Hazel’s doom by saving her from Grace and Simon. [non-canonical tangent: in my fanfic, she helps Simon realize what his issues were, thus averting his doom as well].

In addition, Doom is tied to technology and systems, and Amelia is an engineer, and if you buy my idea that the Train itself can be seen as an Agent of Doom, or even the embodiment of Doom, then her creating Train Cars to reenact her past life (also an act of futility) also falls very much in line with Maid of Doom. Also she is basically MADE of doom as the False Conductor.

Lake – Thief of Breath

“One who takes Breath for themselves.”

Lake wanted freedom from their existence as a reflection, and then they wanted to be free from the Train like a passenger can eventually be. Lake wasn’t afraid to get their hands dirty in order to obtain that freedom as well, something thieves are prone to do. We see them try to trick Tulip in the Chrome Car in order to escape from the mirror dimension, and they also full-out killed a cop they were handcuffed to so they could be free.

Jesse Cosay – Knight of Blood

“One who serves Blood to others.”

Blood is tied to bonds in terms of the bonds we create between people, i.e. family and friends. Jesse’s key issue was that he was giving too much of himself to his toxic friends and his swim team that he hurt his little brother in the process, and he needed to learn to give in a healthier way. 

He also in a sense has to ‘set boundaries’ with others too, and not get too influenced by peer pressure. Finally, the most important use of his aspect was he was able to free Lake by offering (giving) his friendship (blood) to them.

Grace Monroe – Witch of Heart

“One who changes Heart for themselves”

Grace is basically the queen of putting on masks in order to get what she wants from others. She acts in a friendly and understanding teacher/guardian manner to the younger Apex kids, but in a cool girl big sis kind of way to Jesse in order to convince him to join the Apex. So not only does she exhibit the changing of identity, but also to change how others feel about her, both to her own benefit. She is really the most “herself��� only with Simon.

Grace’s entire character arc is centered around her having a ‘change of heart’ too, re-evaluating and changing her whole identity once she found out she was wrong about numbers and denizens. She will then change the hearts of the Apex kids as well, changing the purpose and identity of the Apex.

Simon Laurent – Seer of Mind

“One who knows Mind for others.”

You're probably rolling on the ground with laughter right now. Believe me I was too when I thought of this. But let me explain.

Because Simon’s arc ended in his tragic death, then we need to see what he did wrong in order to figure out his classpect. Simon’s troubles started when he rejected new information about the Train, when he refused knowledge. In addition, he was so sure of his own correctness that he couldn’t properly understand Grace’s motivations and couldn’t predict her decisions. He forcibly peered into Grace’s private thoughts for himself, and then came to the entirely wrong conclusions. 

He was, in essence, completely unaware of the minds of others, and thus blinded himself to the truth. Thus, he is the Seer of Mind. 

We can therefore imagine that if his character arc had run its course not to tragedy but towards self-actualization, he would have become somebody to understand other’s minds, and to know his own mind for the benefit of others (cough my fanfics coughcoughcough). This will not be easy for him, because as mentioned before, Seers receive information very naturally but struggle with understanding it and synthesizing it into a coherent whole.

It is also possible he was exercising some of his knowledge of mind in a positive way by being the Apex’s second in command, as he was the strategist to Grace’s commander.

Ryan Akagi – Heir of Space

“One who changes Space for others.”

Ryan is a creative spirit, with his eyes to the stars. He’s always making plans to spread his art to the whole world. He is driven but in a way where it seems like creativity is driving him, and he is just along for the ride. 

Yes, music is normally associated with time, but Ryan isn’t cynical, dwelling on the past and worrying about the future. He is a guy that’s in the present moment. Plus, his gigs include lots of theatrics and visuals… when he is able/allowed to accomplish that of course. So this aligns his musicality more towards Space than Time.

He inspired Min-Gi to follow his artistic pursuits. He also finds creative solutions to Train cars that his companions didn’t see (especially the Art Gallery Car, where as soon as he found the solution he literally changed space). He definitely fits the ‘driving inspirational force’ that Heirs are for others.

Min-Gi Park – Page of Hope

“One who serves Hope to themselves.”

Min-Gi didn’t have faith in himself and his musical abilities. He dreams of being a musician but he did not ‘believe in himself’ enough to follow that dream. In the end, he had to have faith in his abilities, to allow himself to hope for the future that he wants. Pages also have very slow progression rates, and Min-Gi certainly fits that; not understanding his true calling until his best friend/crush accidentally dragged him into several repeated life or death situations in another dimension. 

[Non-canonical note: Min-Gi having the Hope aspect could be why I headcanoned him and his family as religious for my fanfics (Hope is very much tied to spirituality and religion, and the hope symbol is a pair of angelic wings for crying out loud). And also apparently that was a lucky thing I did because Korean-Canadian immigrants in the sixties were all just missionary families sponsored by the Presbyterian Church!]

REFERENCES 

Homestuck Character Classes (Most Official Fanon): https://homestuckexamination.tumblr.com/post/175472060924/homestuck-examination-classpect-analysis https://mspaintadventures.fandom.com/wiki/Class

Homestuck Cosmic Aspects (Canonical): http://hs.hiveswap.com/ezodiac/aboutaspects.php

#infinity train #homestuck #classpect #classpect analysis #character analysis #tulip olsen #amelia hughes #lake infinity train #jesse cosay #grace monroe #simon laurent #ryan akagi #min gi park #this is extremely niche #but i dont care #image descriptions in alt text

[striderthefrog]

Recently fionna and cake has made me start to make me think about infinity train again and I was meaning to rewatch it regardless so here's some season two analysis! (Side note if you've been enjoying fionna and cake recently please please check out infinity trai)

Season two of infinity train continues to show just how well infinity train writes people to not only feel like really living breathing people but also has characters that feel like they keep changing and growning long after their arc on screen ends.

In season two we have our primary protagonists Jessies and M.T. (who later goes by lake and I will be referring to as lake for the rest of this)

Lake is an anger prone denisate of the train who we now get to journey with after being introduced to them in season one. They are set on finding their own identity outside of being tulips reflection and are also continuesly being chased by their cars version of cops.

Jessie is the complete opposite, he's laid back and his flaw is that he never does things for himself he gives into peer pressure and is a people pleaser. (Which is ironic because he more metaforically similar to a reflection than lake who is literally a reflection)

And thus the conflict between our two protags is set. We see as lake and Jessie meet and at first are constantly clashing with their opposite personalities, bonding offer the deer alan dracula.

As the season progresses we see them start to get along as lake becomes more comfortable in their identity and Jessie starts to think for himself more and not give into peer pressure, both their arcs are very intertwined and we continue to see that as the season progresses.

In episode 7 "the mall car" we see Jessie face some of the largest peer pressure he has perhaps faced in his life as grace and the other members of the apex try to persuade him that passengers are the dominate members of the car and that he should sell out his friend lake. What most shows would use as a crucial character development point infinity train doesn't entirely.

Jessie is already most of the way through his arc, he's already almost entirely figured out his main problem so without thinking about it much (although there is a small moment of hesitation) he chooses lake and Alan dracula and tries to help save them from the apex. However in doing so his number reaches zero and we see lake unable to come with him.

This episode is masterclass in writing, in one ten mintue segment we see a massive ammount of set up for season three setting up it's main characters and what their arcs will be, give payoff for one of our protagonists arcs, and end on a chilling cliff hanger with lake being left behind to fend for themselves against the fleks.

The rest of the season focuses primarily on lake trying to escape the train and also figure what their identity as a person is.

We see them told by mace, the fleks. That they are only there as a stepping stone for others, that they don't have their own person hood and don't deserve it, lake decides they're getting a number anyways and will leave the train for good.

We see them kill mace in a disturbingly animated death scene more gruesome than even many tv-14 shows go for, and they're off to get their number only to discover that "the system" doesn't recognize them, it doesn't even refuse to give them a number the number just passes right through them as if they aren't there.

In a heart wrenching prefoance by Ashley Johnson as lake tears through the robots you hear them say "look at me! I am a person, I deserve a number" literally grabbing one of the robots faces and forcing it to look at them before crushujg it in their hands.

Lake wants to be seen as a person by the train, but the train doesn't acknowledge it.

Then we see everyone's favorite little happy-depressed orb oneone show up. Lake explains their situation to oneone but oneone won't hear any of it.

Lake is not a passenger and as such one one refuses to help them until we se that Jessie has shown back up to the train refusing to leave without them.

Oneone gets stuck in a feedback loop not knowing how to process the created paradox of a passengers problem needing a denisen to leave. (The binary system doesn't recognize the enby smh, yes we Stan trans lake allgory in this household)

Eventually lake realises that Jessies number can reflect onto their own letting both of them escape but not before alan dracula takes out maces partner sivee. (Rip gay buddy cop duo)

We see lake and Jessie in a beautiful shore of a lake. Jessies brother comes up and ask what lakes name is too which they look into their reflection in a lake finally seeing their own and not that of tulips and reply "lake".

Infinity train book two is about identity, finding your identity outside of others and also finding it with others. Jessie and lake perfectly compliment each other's arcs both finding and learning to make decisions for themselves and also who they are.

Anywhos please go watch infinity train it may have got cut short but what's there of it is phenomenal and worth the watch, plus it's super short so you have no excuse. Byyye

#infinity train #media analysis #tulip olsen #lake infinity train #jessie #fionna and cake #queer analysis #trans rights #lake is trans and you can't change my mind

[ultraericthered]

A tale of two "tragic downfall" villains.

Really think about this - the villain is someone who has suffered greatly in his life to the point of being a traumatized, fragile wreck of a person but is a close friend of the story's main protagonist and works alongside them for years until certain events make his hatred, pride, and need for power, control, and the loyalty of others grow and put him on a worse path, on which he betrays the protagonist and leaves them for dead, taking over his friend's group and making all of them follow him now, and when the protagonist returns to face him and get him to relinquish his control of the group, they have a fight to the finish where the villain proves once and for all that he is too far gone to see reason and beyond hope of redemption, so he ends up meeting a terrible, painful demise. Which one did I just describe?

And I don't want to tear either one of them down, since they're both phenomenally written villains who star in their own dark, tragic tales that were both very well executed. ....BUT, I have to go here: I believe there is one thing that one of them got down a lot better than the other one. And it ain't the damn dirty ape.

I am referring to the quality of pathos, which is derived from, for lack of a better word, humanizing the character. Matt Reeves has expressed very clearly that we are intended to feel pathos for Koba, and for his limited screentime in Rise of the Planet of the Apes and in the first act of Dawn of the Planet of the Apes, we do. The poor bonobo was terribly abused, tortured, traumatized, and damaged by callous human scientists and has the physical scars to show it. Even after joining with Caesar and being allowed by him to personally kill his abuser, the deep hatred of humans and fear of what might happen to him and other apes should humans find some way of striking back at them remains with Koba for years; the one thing he ever learned from humans was hatred and nothing else, as Caesar puts it. But the deeper into Dawn we go and the worse Koba gets, the issue arises. Caesar and all these apes were family to Koba for a good many years, years lived in peace and relative happiness, with Caesar even likened to a brother to Koba. However, after a heated dispute with Caesar over his willingness to work with humans turns violent, Koba is beaten down and sees none of the other apes are on his side, he turns his thinking around to view any "weak" ape who'd side with or have leniency on humans to be no better than humans, and that he needs to secure the loyalty of the stronger apes (including Caesar's own son) by taking Caesar's life and framing the humans for it. So he goes for it. And keeps going. And going. And going. And in all this time he's being a villain, the whole second half of the movie, there's not a single moment where Koba ever feels conflicted over what he's doing, no visible traces of remorse nor any sign that he's internally pushing back against remorse because second-guessing himself and surrendering to feelings of shame would reflect weakness. After he's shot his "brother" and left him for dead, Koba is stuck playing the one note of being an evil, wrathful, deranged, murderous monster. There is no metaphorical dog he won't kick, no one he won't mow down in order to assert his dominance and satisfy his rage, and no limit to his blatant hypocrisy. And yes, it was the narrative intent to have Koba slide so far down the slippery slope that he becomes this twisted caricature of his former self who must be put down. But at the time he's condemned and dropped to his painful demise by the ape who was once his brother, there should be a tiny twinge of pity and sadness that it had to come to this....but I think most audiences just cheered when it happened, as there was nothing in Koba left to feel any pity towards.

For Simon, being the equilvalent to what Koba was in the second half of the film occurs only in Book Three's final episode, "The New Apex". In the episodes prior to it, throughout the course of Book Three, Simon is one of the main protagonists and has a wide range of facets and emotions to his characterization; we see moments of him and Grace having the sort of camraderie with each other that could only come from years spent together as friends that makes them both a bit easier to like despite their apalling actions, we get funny bits from him that endear him to us, we see him get sad, get frightened, get confused and unsure of the direction Grace is taking things in, hear about his personal interests, learn about his past trauma, see him vulnerable and interally torn up by conflict. When he works together with Tuba in the Color Clock Car, even sharing a laugh with her, figuring out she's colorblind, and learning more about the sad past with her deceased daughter that also shows him how much Hazel means to her, we can tell that all his views about "Nulls" and about the train are being challenged and he's starting to second-guess himself, to think that this "Null" might be so much more than he'd written her off as from the start, which would lead to guilt and shame over all the "Nulls" he'd mistreated and killed in the past...and so naturally, there's the internal pushback from Simon, because he not only cannot admit to being wrong, he cannot let himself be wrong: he has to be right all the time so that all the years on the train and in the Apex can mean and amount to something beneficial to him rather than having all been a sad waste that'd render him a pitiful, insignificant failure. So with all doubts dispelled from his mind and clear from his consicence, he deliberately and cold-bloodedly sends Tuba to her death, and feels proud to have done so. Things only spiral downward into further darkness and madness from there.

Simon finding out that Grace learned the truth about Hazel before he did and withheld it from him as a secret between herself and the "Null" is the tipping point for him. He snaps, turns against Grace and leaves her for dead, and like Koba, now feels there is no one in his life that he can trust to be on his side unless he were to force their loyal devotion to him through fearmongering and shows of dominance. And yet even in "The New Apex", even with Simon at his most irredeemably loathsome and psychotic, the writing allows for some pathos. When Grace saves Simon from falling off the train, he asks her why she did it. Grace responds "I don't know." Looking at Simon's face in the brief silence that follows, we can tell that deep down in his heart of hearts, he was hoping for Grace to give him a different answer. Something like "because I love you" or "because you're my dearest friend", or "becuse I didn't want to lose you", or "to make amends to you for everything" or even "because you're not the one who deserves to die; you were right about me, about everything." But instead, he hears a vague, ambiguous "I don't know", as it was just basic human decency from Grace and nothing deeper than that. And thus goes away whatever was left of Simon's mind and heart, as he kicks Grace off the train to her apparent death in an act that rescinds years of love and friendship built up with her, raises Simon's number higher than even Amelia's, and sends him into a complete mental breakdown as we see a surge of conflicting moods all over him. So then even if his grisly end that follows elicts some cheering from viewers (I certainly wouldn't blame them!), that tiny twinge of pity and sadness that it had to come to this is very much there by the time Simon is dust on the ground that Grace is sobbing over.

Two exceptional villains in two exceptional works, but only with Simon do I get the sense of a victimized and vulnerable not-all-bad person who tragically descended into becoming a mega asshole. With Koba, I just see a mega asshole.

#Planet of the Apes #Koba #Infinity Train #Book Three #Cult of the Conductor #Simon Laurent #villains #comparison #tragedy #tragic villain #opinion #criticism #analysis

[sparkdoesart]

What if I mauled someone with my teeth about Simon. What then. What if I killed the next person who says he's just a monster.

#im #so fucking tired #i need to stop rewatching this show #im gonna write that essay #and if one more person looks at this character and goes #“hes literally just satan” im gonna kill them #im going to beat you over the head with any form of character analysis #LIKE DEAR GOD #not even just looking at whats on the surface #looking at the water through ur shitty phone camera from far away #im so pissed about it everytime #FUCK. #infinity train #simon laurent

[julianobungus]

I don't know, but when Grace said, "I don't know," to Simon, I beyond mad at her. Like girl, you know him, and you know what he's going through, and you say that to him. The guy who's has trust issues and abandonment issues, who was probably changing himself to you happy, and all you have to say is, "I don't know." I'm not forgetting what Simon did, but geez, the fandom seems to glorify Grace like she's a Saint but treats Simon like he's the devil, forgetting that Grace was the leader of apex and did just as many awful things. Sorry for the rant. It's just some of the stories and forms about Simon and Grace. Get disturbing about how happy they were when Simon kicked the bucket. And this is the only place I know where I won't get hounded for saying this.

No no, don't apologise. Like I get it. The treatment Simon gets from the fandom can be pretty infuriating, especially in how unrelenting some of the fans are in hating him.

Grace is a good character, but we shouldn't forget that she's just as flawed as Simon in many ways, so seeing people take the moral high ground by ignoring all the bad stuff she did is annoying. "But she changed!"

Aye, she did, and it's an important part of her character. But the narrative of Book 3 is so fixated on elevating Grace to levels of pure good and Simon to those of irredeemable sin that it stops making sense in some ways. Especially that one last line: "I don't know."

... What did the writers mean by that? That Simon - a literal young adult who's been separated from his family and normal society for his formative years - doesn't deserve a proper explanation or reassurance that he's cared for? You can just tell the writers hated Simon with a passion, especially with how they talk about him online.

Another thing I wanna add, even if it's a bit of a tangent.

Grace goes off on Simon for grabbing her and trying to control her - this is a good message to convey, since victimisation of women and patriarchal toxicity is a real problem IRL. That being said, I think Simon and Grace are one of the worst examples to use for that - because we see Grace manhandle and touch Simon all the time prior to this. Grace has no sense of personal space; touching and grabbing Simon and Jesse, albeit playfully and without malicious intent. I might be misremembering, but don't you think Simon would have picked that up from her?

This is largely why a toxic masculinity storyline doesn't work with these two. At least, IMO. If anything, Grace is the toxic one initially, whereas Simon becomes toxic as a result of their relationship.

I know this seems like I'm blaming Grace for all of Simon's problems, I'm just calling it how I see it.

#gsimon laurent #simon infinity train #infinity train simon #media critical #media analysis

[andthebeanstalk]

To give credit to the last of us for its queer rep, it’s not just queer characters who have tragic/bittersweet endings. Literally everyone (siblings, parent and child, heterosexual) queer or not, has tragic endings. The older queer couple gets the best one out of all of them.

I guess? I mean, it is certainly much better than if they were the only characters to die in the storyline. But people were on tumblr talking about how theirs was a happy queer story. And I think it is the misleading discussion around these characters that bothers me even more than the writing. Like if I had watched that episode instead of looking up the plot summary, I would have had a meltdown at the end when they both died because I truly had gotten the impression that it was going to be a happy story.

But now that I've mentioned the writing:

It's nice that they live till their 70s. It's nice that they get 20 beautiful years together. And it's a bit fucked that the writers felt the need to end those 20 long years on-screen with a terminal illness and suicide in the same episode they are introduced. It would have been incredibly easy to just say that those men get to live on past the end of the episode. There are a million reasons those men could have continued living in the story.

But that's the thing about a show like this. I think there is a distinct possibility that this show is actually incapable of writing a satisfying happy ending.

Craig Maizin, the show's writer, gained acclaim recently with Chernobyl, proving that he is apparently excellent at writing a long, horrifying tragedy in which character struggle only to find there is no way out.

(His other main credits are The Hangover sequels and the Scary Movie sequels, most of which I haven't personally seen, so make of that what you will.)

But more than the writer's background, the show itself troubles me. It has this repeated mantra in it that goes, "when you're lost in the darkness, look for the light." Which is a cool phrase.

But I have reason to suspect that this writer genuinely doesn't know how to write the light. I have no reason to believe he does. I hope I am wrong.

But when you write episode after episode after episode that is an endless inescapable slog of tragedy and desperation - and then advertise it to me, a sick queer person actually living through a pandemic and trying to escape disease and poverty - well.

I think a better writer would include moments of light and hope beyond just trauma bonding. Moments that don't end in death.

When my wife writes about characters in awful situations, there are still these moments of genuine loveliness and fun and joy between the characters; these moments remind the reader what is worth actually fighting for, living for. Imagine! Entire chapters in a post-apocalyptic novel in which characters don't undergo a "hacking someone to death with a cleaver" level of trauma!

But the fact that Bill and Frank still had to die even after an earnest attempt to tell a beautiful love story....

I fear that the light the story ends with - if there is any - will be as dim and desaturated as the show itself. And personally, I am at a point in my life where I don't care to see a story like that.

It's fine if you do like it. It doesn't matter to me if you find beauty in a tragic queer love story. There are places for that in this world. But it is tragic. I am sure of that. And I wish I hadn't been seeing posts saying otherwise, ya know?

And I hope I am wrong about the writer. But I see cracks in the premise. Like in Stranger Things. There was always a promise of light that kept me watching, but it never seemed to come. Instead, the misery and trauma continued to stack and compound for the lead characters, like in TLOU. But... does the writer know how to make that worth it, for us, for the audience - for me? I don't think he does.

I think it very possible that the light isn't really coming for Ellie and Joel in a way that provides catharsis because I have noticed that on shows with no intermittent joy and hope, this is too often the case.

But I do hope I'm wrong. Because if I am right, then a lot of mentally ill fans will leave the experience more depressed than if they hadn't watched it at all.

But for my own part, I'll just continue to skim through the show for monster design ideas. And also I'll say that everyone should watch Infinity Train - ESPECIALLY season 2 of Infinity Train, if they'd like to see a story in which people actually DO find a light that makes the whole journey feel worth it.

#original #tlou #the last of us #bill and frank #writing #writing analysis #again i don't care if you like the show or not. you can like the show. it is well made. but that is NOT a happy queer ending. #it is not a happy story to me. i know it isn't AS BAD as it could've been but also.... i don't care #my money is on 'joel dies and ellie is so traumatized by the experience that she is basically non functional' #look for the fucking light i guess. wheeeeeeee #infinity train #mt infinity train #lake infinity train #seeing a story in which a character escapes a seemingly inescapable situation GENUINELY made me feel like there was hope for me #and i have personally found that the opposite has an opposite effect #tragedies have a purpose. but i fear sometimes the tragedy in some shows is just there bc the writer feels there must be 4 tragedies per ep #but like. trauma in a story - added just for the sake of extra trauma - it is a red flag for where this story is going #bly manor #FUCKING BLY MANOR MY ARCH FOE #i also see no need for a show of endless tragedy to be this long. like. they are experiencing the SAME trauma repeatedly. what does it add? #ellie loses ANOTHER friend horribly! like. okay. we've... already seen that? why is this one worthy of screen time other than you CAN?

[muppet-on-a-spit]

I miss you like a red sunrise viewed through dirty glasses   and being a crying kid back before you knew the shame of tears   and the thud of a too-heavy picture frame that falls off the wall in the middle of the night   and looking over your shoulder searching for me in the crowd

Or

Infinity Train Prose Poems

#posted these! it's kinda like character analysis near to my heart but it's a poem #infinity train #b1 #b2 #b3 #b4 #considering writing one about amelia but i'm not there yet #tulip olsen #lake infinity train #jesse cosay #grace monroe #simon laurent #ryan akagi #min-gi park #rymin #gray speaks

[lakesbian]

The Main Thing about rymin fanfiction is that people tend to take the default premise of "okay, they didn't get together in the season, so they must have like an angsty journey to figure out they like each other afterwards" but this is not actually. Sensible. season four is, the flaws in its writing aside, in large part fundamentally about min-gi and ryan overcoming various stifling conceptions about what they're supposed to be doing w/ their lives, including marginalized status--min-gi explicitly has to address how he feels about the idea of trying to enter the music industry as an asian-canadian man in the 1980s, and while ryan isn't unequivocally/canonically ADHD, his characterization is demonstrably haunted by intense impulsivity, RSD-like behaviors, the whole "i couldn't get into uni if i tried, you should be looking forward to it" thing, etc. the core problem behind their numbers frankly isn't as clearly defined as the core problems in s1 and s2, but it is clear that they have to 1. come to terms with the baggage involving societal perception of them/their childhood goals that pushed them apart in the first place and 2. decide to stick together before the train deems their problems solved. like, min-gi literally is not getting off that motherfucking train before he goes "ah, i see! trying to cram myself into a business suit shaped coffin to Appease The World will make me miserable. i should drop out of college and go be in a two-person band touring the big city with my best friend of 20 years instead."

which is to say. if they were gay and mutually in love with each other, there is absolutely no way that wouldn't be a main stifling factor for their life plans. there is absolutely no way that wouldn't be a Main Thing they're both trying to bury 50 feet deep. there is absolutely no way that wouldn't be a main reason min-gi can't bring himself to go with ryan after they graduate. and a main reason ryan can't bring himself not to drive away. which means there's absolutely no way it wouldn't HAVE to be addressed on the train. the narrative most compelling here is not "they somehow magically only have to deal with being gay for their childhood best friend in the '80s afterwards," it's "being closeted gay men in the 1980s absolutely Haunts their lifelong friendship and they engaged in an insane amount of closeness as children and homoeroticism as teens that they increasingly repressed as they grew up before their inability to confront it + differing personalities/coping mechanisms led to min-gi staying in their hometown heading to college and ryan driving away during a little never-married divorce during which they're both constantly yearning for each other until they both reach a crossroads in life where their option is to sort their shit out or just suffer badly forever, which leads to them boarding the train in the way we see in the twin tapes, which leads to them having to unpack all their issues and fully recognize their emotions and get together on the train before they can exit." You Know? it's gonna be a big deal and characters being on the train is About the big deal shit, it's just inherently the most compelling option to retcon the season a bit if yr doing fic to have them sort it out on the train

#infinity train #b4 #analysis

[teamfreewill56-blog]

Boar Boy is Soft Boi: Inosuke’s Tenderness

Friendly reminder that Inosuke is an incredibly caring, compassionate soft boy. Will he immediately try to throw hands with you? Hell yeah, will he clearly say that he cares about you? Not a chance. But his actions speak so incredibly loud for him. In Mugen Train after they crash and he luckily bounces off Enmu’s flesh he runs over to Tanjiro. Immediately lands on his feet and goes “Santaro! Are you all right!??” First thing out of his mouth. First thought. And of course he gets side tracked for a second, “You see me bounce off that demon’s flesh just now?” And immediately after he says that hyper thing his brain goes “WAIT!” And instantly Inosuke goes into full worry, “You got stabbed! How’s your stomach!!?” So worried and wanting answers that he lifts Tanjiro up, holding the back of his head with one hand and gripping Tanjiro’s haori with the other. His voice is full of genuine concern and panic about whether or not Tanjiro is in mortal danger. He does shake Tanjiro, but with how he’s cradling Tanjiro’s head, it literally does nothing but a little jostle.

He gets upset that Tanjiro wants him to help the engineer because the guy stabbed Tanjiro so in Inosuke’s mind yeah no, he shouldn’t be getting help, he hurt Tanjiro! He deserves to be hurt and trapped! But Inosuke relents when Tanjiro asks him to help, and Inosuke doesn’t keep arguing after Tanjiro asks, even though it upsets Inosuke he immediately relents and does what his “minion” asks. He lets go of the back of Tanjiro’s head when they’re talking, but still keeps his hand right there ready to catch Tanjiro’s head and then cradles his head again. And look at how he sets Tanjiro down in that shot, he does it very gently even as he’s sitting there growling in frustration, he’s still holding and minding Tanjiro’s head so that Tanjiro’s body doesn’t move at all as he lays him down.

When Inosuke enters the fight with Douma he turns and looks at Kanao and sees her injured, and he’s showing concern here too.

The moment he notices Kanao the first thing he notices is how she is hurt. “You…you’re all beaten up! What’re you doing?! Shinobu’ll get really mad at you! And she gets really angry!” He is worried about Shinobu getting mad at Kanao for being all hurt But he stops when he sees Kanao’s face, just that single reaction and he realizes what happened, but has to ask “Is Shinobu….dead?” And ya’ll he pauses when he says it. He pauses and he doesn’t yell it. He says it quieter.

And he hears Douma spout his nonsense, he gets so mad the aura colors show up but instead of just going blindly at Douma he gets Kanao’s katana and gives it back to her. He could have just started the fight with Douma but his next move was that Kanao needed to have her weapon back and he did that first before going into full fight mode. It doesn’t even matter whether he did actually know the sword was hers or not, its the fact that he was willing to fight with Kanao so much so that he made sure she was armed with him before trying to make any attacks towards Douma. He wanted this girl that he knows Shinobu cares about, and who cares about Shinobu, to be able to participate in the fight to kill the demon who killed the Butterfly Hashira. When Tanjiro turns into a demon he defends Giyuu and scolds Tanjiro, trying to get him to come back to reason.

And even in the moment, knowing Tanjiro is a demon and going through with the logic “he’s a demon now, I have to stop him.” Inosuke cries, his sword at Tanjiro’s neck and stops, saying, “I can’t do it.” And refuses to fight him. And some people might say that this is a character development for Inosuke, but I don’t feel it is. If at any other point in the series Tanjiro had turned into a demon, I feel Inosuke would still have reacted exactly this way and come to Nezuko’s defense if Tanjiro attacked her. Because ever since the Spider Family Arc they have been friends, even if he wasn’t calling them that yet, that’s what they were. And Inosuke is honestly gentle with them. He lets Tanjiro scold and teach him, he lets Zenitsu man-handle and hit him and he never does it back after the Tsuzuri Mansion incident unless they’re training.

#Inosuke soft boi #wont say it but he softy soft #best boi #loves his friends #they're his brothers #he's just like his mama #spoilers #kny analysis #inosuke hashibira analysis #mugen train #demon slayer inosuke #demon slayer mugen train #demon slayer infinity castle arc #demon slayer sunrise countdown arc #helped and fought with Kanao even though they'd never fought against a demon together before #loved and cared about Shinobu #inosuke hashibira #takes after his mama

[trojanteapot]

Keep thinking back to how the Train in IF really does represent the systems that society puts in place IRL.

Because the question as to why did Grace and Simon misunderstand the train so much? Well it's simple, they kinda didn't to some extent. they were just picking up what the train was putting down.

For example in episode 6 of season 2, in the lucky cat car, when Lake and Jesse were in the Cat's amusement park, Lake pointed out that their score wasn't increasing as much as Jesse's despite them winning most of the carnival games. And I believe another example of this inequality is in season 3: killing denizens increases your number a lot, but not as much as trying to kill a passenger (compare how much Simon's number increases when he kills Tuba vs when he tries to kill Grace)

Telling people to figure out the Train for themselves seems to kind of be disastrous more often than we think. It's just like how telling people to "figure it out" in real life leads to the same thing. People will notice certain things about your system, like who gets treated what way, but instead of coming to the conclusion that it's unethical or broken, they might just think "well that's how the world just works" i.e. with racism, poor people, any sort of marginalized group who are at a disadvantage

So that's why even if you do start to point out the systemic injustices and try to fix it and make the system more equitable, it's not always enough to convince everyone. One such example is how after Tulip returned One-One to the engine, and he made some videos to explain how the train works to new passengers, it's still not enough to convince Grace and Simon that they were wrong, and they were just like "that ball robot thing isn't the real conductor lol nice try."

Look I know Contrapoints made a whole new video recently about how you need to defeat people who are stuck at the bottom of the hate whirlpool instead of try to convince them to come to your side and I know that at the end of season 3, Simon is supposed to be there, which is why he had to be "defeated" by getting his face eaten by the leopards eating people's faces party a ghom (Grace saving him from falling wasn't enough) but i still feel bad for him and no one can make me not feel bad for him.

and BTW i don't sympathize with or try to convince IRL conservatives or bigots okay? i can separate fiction from reality. please stop haranguing me and other Simon fans about that lmao

#infinity train #infinity train book 3 #infinity train book 2 #analysis #media analysis #grace monroe #simon laurent #lake infinity train #jesse cosay #tulip olsen #one one #samantha the cat #the cat infinity train #ramble #rant #unhinged #politics #we live in a society #the train as a metaphor for society #this is kinda unhinged