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#intra lbpq
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this may be a Controversial opinion but: i really dislike the term “non-lesbian(s)”. i’ve been seeing it used lately and imo, it serves no true purpose and only creates further division between lesbians and bi wIw. 
yes, there are certain instances of homophobic misogyny that affect lesbians more directly / explicitly than they do bi women, but bi women are not unaffected. acting as though they are in the same position as straight women and gay/bi men, or even worse - cishet men - is nothing short of absurd. and when we say “non-lesbian”, we are grouping bi women in with het women, gay/bi men, and het men. that is what is being communicated.
we can talk about how lesbophobia targets and harms lesbians without implying (or outright claiming) that bi women somehow remain completely unscathed by it, or that they are the main perpetrators of lesbophobia. we can talk about intra community issues without these kinds of over-generalizing statements that lump bi women in with their oppressors. 
we are better than this. we need to be better than this.
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artemissoteira · 7 years
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I think that a big part of the problem is that bi people are often only made to feel welcome in community spaces when they have a same gender partner or have the immediate potential for a same gender partner (ie they're not currently dating a different gender person). When dating a different gender person as a bi individual, it feels like you have to keep reasserting or proving your identity to others (both inside the community and outside of it). People are more likely to assume or argue (1)
(2) argue/assume that you’re really straigh. Even within the lgbtq+ community, if one is seen dating/showing interest in different gender people one’s sometimes assumed straight because compulsive heterosexuality is just so damn strong. Sometimes it seems like you’re “straight until proven otherwise” & that can lead to a lot of feelings of discomfort, defensiveness, & isolation from the community. Even if bi people aren’t actively treated this way, they may fear this treatment bc of past exp.
o yeah, absolutely - biphobia and everything you mentioned is 100% real. thank you for these messages! that’s not exactly what this thread I’m in is talking about though, which i realize might not have been clear in my post / if yr not used to the same m0n0sexism discourses.
the issue at play is whether that biphobia / isolation that you mention (which is real and a problem!) constitutes systematic oppression, i.e. whether lesbians are able to oppress bi women specifically because of their power within LGBT communities.
my strong belief is: no. this thread is arguing that lesbians are the beneficiaries of a system of oppression based on [only feeling attraction to one gender], which honestly doesn’t exist. it’s not attraction to one gender that’s privileged, it’s the opposite gender; heterosexism doesn’t reward lesbians for not liking men. and I’ve been trying to find the words to validate biphobia as a problem without using it to claim lesbians are privileged/oppressive for not liking men, specifically in terms of biphobic lesbians in LGBT communities.
i think i’ve found an articulation i’m happy with in marking intracommunity power politics as different from structural privilege. biphobia as a horizontal aggression - lesbians, marginalized on the basis of sexuality, perpetuating biphobia, marginalization on the basis of sexuality. bc lesbians aren’t coming from a societally privileged sexuality position, it’s not the same as straight women perpetuating biphobia, which is just straight up (ha) heterosexism. still a problem, it just means we need to approach it differently bc of how the power is operating. if we try to fight it as “m0n0sexism” we’ll miss all the ways that biphobia deploys through heterosexism and respectability politics, not a separate inherent privileging of single gender attraction.
anyway i know this is old news in most of my tumblr circles but I’ve been jumping into new facebook circles recently, which has meant going back to some of the views I haven’t engaged with in a while, and trying to apply new words to old(er) concepts. it’s been a trip. but thanks again for sending this!
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autisticandroids · 3 years
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these arguments abt bi/gay dean always remind me of a post i saw from a blog abt intra lbpq solidarity abt how a fictional character might "walk and talk like a bi woman" but that same experience might be a lesbian woman's too, since they are fictional we can't actually tell unless they explicitly label themselves. ever since then ive been much more mindful abt not invalidating headcanons. I have my opinion but i can ignore/support but disagree w/ urs (general u) if they dont match and thats ok
yeah like..... what actually drives me up the wall cuckoo crazy is when people say cas is confirmed gay so us greedy gay people should let bi people at least have dean like. that’s actually incomprehensible to me. he isn’t? he isn’t. he’s confirmed in love with dean. he’s confirmed queer. saying he’s confirmed textually gay is imo actually kind of biphobic
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beholdingslut · 8 years
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(1) hey, so the thing is, i'm sick and tired of these ppl who's only purpose is to make wlw question if their attraction is 'real' enough. i don't want you to worry about being a 'fake lesbian' because that's not smth that exists. you can identify with whatever you feel comfortable with. a lot of lesbians use sex w men as a way to harm themselves, and that doesn't make them any less real. if you feel comfortable identifying as a lesbian and that's the only thing you're worried about (cont.)
then you're a lesbian. if you want to identify as a lesbian, there is nothing holding you back. we will accept you with open arms. people who think a lesbian's attraction to men, either aesthetically or platonically or as a way to self harm, is fake, then they are not welcome in this community. but you are. don't worry about having to prove your lesbianism. the fact that you like having sex with men as a way to self harm doesn't make you fake or any less real. 
it's just a way to self harm. nothing more. okay? i'm not here to like force you to identify as a lesbian, or say that you have to, but i'm here to tell you that the things you think make you less of a lesbian are irrelevant, they don't matter, it doesn't diminish your identify at all. it's okay. if you're exclusively attracted to women, then that's it, you're a lesbian (if you want to identify that way) the stuff about having sex w men doesn't matter. sex can be devoid of attraction
don't worry, it's okay, i'm a lesbian and i'm saying that you can be a lesbian. there's no need to worry. your attraction to women is real and good and it's not what is changing. i hope some day you can be certain in your identity and orientation. the lesbian community will always welcome you back, if you want to try out different labels and ultimately settle on lesbian. the wlw definitely will always be here with open arms. we will always be there for you
i’m finally publishing these because i just think they’re so important and i hope they can help anyone else out there who feels as lost or confused as i did. thank you. thank you.
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bad content: acting like either lesbianism or bisexuality is more ~radical than the other
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not categorically rejecting men via lesbianism =/= being “available” to men. availability to men is not something bi women and straight women have in common because no woman is available to men. we are people, not commodities or resources. 
yes, men think they are entitled to our time, our bodies, our labour. but that is a product of misogyny and something that all women face. being a lesbian doesn’t stop men from believing they have some kind of right to you, and bi women are not responsible for men thinking of lesbians this way. the responsibility lies at the feet of misogyny and homophobia which bi women are also subjected to. they’re struggling just as much as we are (and in certain cases, more) so stop treating bi women like the enemy. they are our sisters and deserve our unconditional respect and support. 
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artemissoteira · 7 years
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does anyone have a good framework / response to the concept that lesbian and gay people are materially privileged for having easier access to LGBT communities than bi people
i’m in an intense m0n0sexism discourse thread on a facebook group and people are very ardently trying to make the argument that lesbians structurally oppress bi people because lesbians can wield power against bi folks in LGBT spaces / bi people are ostracized from some of those groups
that argument feels so wrong but i’m having trouble articulating it exactly
?
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the-bi-furious-babe · 9 years
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I'm really sorry to sound ignorant but I don't understand that last post you reblogged (the lbpq one) - I've read it over and over and I don't understand what it's about, would you mind explaining? I'm really interested to know but I just can't get my head around what it's saying, I think I have brainfog 😔. Thank you and have a wonderful day x
No worries! It would be especially confusing if you haven’t seen the posts/heard the arguments that prompted it! 
One example (the one I’m most familiar with) is people blaming the rape of lesbian women on bi women because bi women “confuse” people and “make” cishet men think that all wlw are open to being with men.
Obviously, that’s a bunch of bullshit. Just because bi women have the ability to be attracted to multiple genders does NOT mean they’re “sexually available to men.” We’re sexually available to the people we want to have sex with.
There are other examples of lbpq women blaming each other for this shit, but since I’m bi and read as a woman, this is the one I hear most frequently, and therefore feel most capable of talking about.
So the post is just reiterating that blaming an lbpq woman (in this example, a bi woman) for a man raping an lbpq woman (in this example, a lesbian woman) is placing the blame on someone who is not at fault. The person at fault for raping someone is the rapist. It’s never the victim’s fault. It’s never some third-party’s fault. It’s the rapist’s fault for raping someone. Always. 
Does that all make sense? Let me know if you need more clarification on anything!
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beholdingslut · 8 years
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Traumatized women can still be lesbians. It doesn't invalidate you at all. It's a way of self-harm, not something you do bc you're genuinely attracted to men. It is a trauma, something separate from your sexual orientation. and yes it is really scary to start identifying as a lesbian. It took me awhile as well. and I wanted to extra extra sure so I wouldn't end up being the lesbian 'with an exception' which hurts lesbians so much.
this message has been. very important to me, and very re-assuring in this process i’ve been going through, and i just want you to know i’m thankful to you, whoever you are, for telling me this.
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Conversation
lesbian: *says something Problematic*
bi: oh my gOD
me: just dont follow her jesus
bi: NO I HAVE TO COMMENT
bi: LETW GANG UP ON HER AND START A FIGHT LETS GO
bi: *comments*
bi: *circulates post*
bi: *frames conversation and hangs on wall*
lesbian: *is literally sixteen and unsure about the whole issue*
bi: we sure showed that biphobe
me: who let you into my feed
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not to take this too seriously but we’ve developed this nasty culture where lesbians & bi women are assumed to be utterly separate with completely separate histories and like.....even jokes apparently, we’re not even allowed to share jokes with each other without it being called appropriation. like we have more in common than not and it’s willfully ignorant to act like there are two (2) distinct wlw experiences rather than a huge variety of largely overlapping experiences
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