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winchesternova-k · 4 years

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Why/how do you support "Dean" when he has nearly every major trait in which people dislike "John" for? And I genuinely have no aggression towards this question! I just want to get your take on this character.

tbh i rlly hate comparisons between dean and john fvgfvf bc i don’t think it’s fair when their dynamic is one of a victim and abuser but i’ll do my best to answer this fvgfvg idk how articulate i’ll be this bc i do have adhd. ik what i mean and i understand what my point is but whether anyone else will is anyone’s guess fvgfvg

largely in the early seasons dean’s picked up john’s toxic traits as a way of coping w his abusive/neglectful behaviour. in later seasons, dean doesn’t exhibit many of these traits in an unhealthy way, and when he does (which is rare) i usually put it down to the unhealthy coping mechanisms he has (more on that below) or bad writing bc there have been several times when i feel he’s been ooc (his early treatment of jack for example). there’s multiple posts abt these instances in my liveblog tag (“emily liveblogs spn”)

a lot of the issues i have w john stem from the way he puts his vengeance in front of his kids. dean never does that. in the recent seasons, there’s multiple occasions where he actually puts jack in front of his mission. john continually puts his kids in danger, on purpose. the episode w the strega comes to mind. he used his kids as bait and takes his anger out on dean when sam nearly gets killed. he doesn’t even tell them they’re bait. dean is absolutely terrified of sam getting hurt and of disappointing his father. i can’t remember dean ever doing anything like that to anyone let alone jack or ben.

john treats his kids like soldiers and possessions instead of y’know kids. he gives them “orders”. like parents obviously tell their kids what to do but this is whole different level tbh. they blame themselves when things go wrong bc “they didn’t follow orders”. there’s “wow maybe dad knew better and i should listen next time” and then there’s “dad gave me an order and things went wrong bc i ‘disobeyed’. i’m a bad person”. dean and sam experience the latter. on top of that when they disobey john gets rlly angry bc they’re not under his control. this is a classic abuser move and one that my abusers have used on me. dean doesn’t do this w anyone let alone any of the kids he’s been in charge of, including sam.

i mean dean straight up blames himself when they’re used as bait by demons to get to john in one episode. that’s not a reaction that comes from a healthy relationship. jack’s scared sometimes of disappointing his dads (and i think on one occasion of making dean angry), but dean’s v quick to reassure him that even if he’s done smth wrong they still care abt him. john never does that. and like i said, any negative thing resembling john w dean & jack’s dynamic i usually chalk up to bad writing bc parts of it are v inconsistent between eps and dean never acted this way before w ben. and that aside dean has no history of acting like john in those respects any other time.

when sam and dean need help, john doesn’t give it. he just lets them handle it alone, even when they think it could get them hurt, unless it could help w his overall vengeance. whenever someone needs dean’s help, he’s there. i’m rewatching s1 atm (coming straight off the back of not watching any spn for abt idk 3ish yrs, and then starting from last 2 eps of s12 to the most recent ep), and a major difference between dean and john is how they r towards sam. when sam wants to leave, john shouts at him and guilts him into staying and even disowns him. dean is clearly upset and short w him but he tries to be supportive. he doesn’t know what to say and ultimately he’s honest abt how he feels but he doesn’t want to make things hard for sam or hurt him or drive him away like john. he doesn’t want to control sam like john does. he just wants his brother around, but accepts that sam wants things to be different. ultimately i think if sam had gone back to college he would’ve accepted it and gotten used to a more functional relationship. that’s not to say that the winchester brothers relationship is healthy in early seasons bc it’s not. their relationship formed when they were being abused/neglected and dean literally raised sam, and he doesn’t rlly know how to get along w/o sam which is rlly rlly toxic. but it improves over the yrs bc neither of them want to keep living in that unhealthy cycle

w ben, his parenting model w him is completely different to john’s. he tries to keep him out of danger to the point of trying to keep him from knowing the truth until he absolutely has to. when he does the wrong thing by ben (which i’ll admit like john, is usually out of fear) he apologises and tries to make sure he doesn’t do it again. john never does either of these things.

idk if ur talking abt his drinking, etc.? if that’s (partly) what this is abt, they’re unhealthy coping mechanisms that dean has developed bc he doesn’t know how else to deal. he doesn’t do therapy and the influential figures in his life coped this way (bobby, john, etc.) and he would’ve copied it.

mostly i think john doesn’t want to improve. dean does. dean doesn’t want to hurt the ppl he loves and when he does he apologises, even tho it takes a while. that last part is smth i relate to as an abuse survivor, bc abuse makes it hard to admit when ur wrong bc it will be used against u, smth we know for a fact john did w both sam and dean. john is shown to care less abt hurting ppl he cares abt than whatever he’s chasing and i think he apologises like once? in the entire show. i mean dean even knows when he’s being possessed by a demon bc john’s nice to him and tells him he’s proud. sam even says he feels like nothing he ever does is good enough bc of john (smth i also experience due to abuse and neglect). dean’s never afraid to tell jack or ben when he’s proud of them.

john’s happy to hurt whoever he has to to achieve his mission and his revenge, even hurt or kill his kids. he doesn’t WANT to hurt them, but again the strega ep shows that the mission comes first. dean shows how different he is when he refuses to kill jack in the s14 finale. he’s angry and he wants revenge but he knows hurting jack is wrong. dean often goes headfirst into danger to protect others w little thought for his own safety. that’s partially a reaction to john’s treatment of him, but john used to drag his kids into that danger w him. ik sometimes when theyre older john tries to keep them away from it, but that’s when they’re old enough to choose (and he’s still not letting them). but when they were dependent on him, he straight up did not care whether they were in danger or not. not when his mission was at stake. when they’re older and can keep themselves out of danger, that’s when and only when he tries to keep them out of danger. it’s a control thing. john wants them under his thumb and to only do what he wants. jack is usually kept out of the situation unless it’s necessary, and ben was entirely except for one instance where it would’ve been more dangerous to keep him out of it. dean parents jack and ben but he doesn’t try to control them.

ig my main thoughts r that dean’s actions r that of an abuse survivor and developed to survive the situation whereas john’s r that of an abuser. dean’s negative actions usually r only intended to hurt himself whereas john’s r intended to hurt everyone. all up i think their traits seem similar on the surface, but deeper down dean’s v different to john. his negative traits tend to be self destructive rather than just destructive. it’s more ig that dean’s actions r different to john’s? idk if that makes sense fvgfvg but i think that dean treats ppl v differently to john. he tries not to hurt ppl but john doesn’t rlly seem to give a shit if he hurts ppl or not.

tldr; i don’t rlly think dean’s toxic traits are similar to john any further than on a superficial level. any time i’ve seen that (esp in recent seasons) has been a result of bad or inconsistent writing. dean’s also a better dad than john. john shows signs found in abusers and ones i saw in my own abusers; dean doesn’t.

#anti john winchester #dean winchester #sam winchester #spn #supernatural #alex talks #i mean this w zero aggression to but i rlly dk how anyone could compare dean to john in this way but anyway #also if this comes across as agressive i dont mean it to! so long as u dont spew ‘john did nothing wrong’ at me we’re good fvgfvg #im sure theres stuff im forgetting to but #this is so fucking long fvgfvg sorry #john stans dni or get blocked #winc*st shippers dni or get blocked #abuse tw #meta #i think it officially counts now fvgfvg #long post #anonymous #asks #my meta

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