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fumifooms · 3 months

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Laios Touden and autism; admiring the non-human

Do you think people exaggerate when they scream about Laios being autistic? Do you feel like it’s weird that so many people including autistics are so set on Laios, the problematic (but incredible and kind) king TM, being the most autistic that has ever autisticed? Why do we cheer on autistic people wanting to be monsters?? Isn’t that weird?

Well, of course it depends on the way it’s done, it can be done quite offensively, but long story short Kui blew it out of the park. The thing is, autistic people really do like monsters and animals and robots. Nonhuman does not mean subhuman, it just means Other. Feeling a connection with them has been shown to be an extremely common autistic experience for that very reason.

Because some people don’t understand why we autistic Tumblr Laios stans cheer “autism! Autism!” whenever he talks about monsters and feeling alienated to humans so! Here’s a post about how yes even research papers are analyzing the special connection we form with animals. I’m not even joking but Laios Touden & the mass cries of relatability with autistic people he gets and all the love for him could be used as study material and evidence for future papers because the link is that strong. Oh also I think it’s notable that being autistic and undiagnosed vs diagnosed makes a huge difference. In my experience as someone who was undiagnosed up until 18, it’s even more alienating to not know that there’s a reason why you’re different, being gaslit that you’re ‘normal’ and you just need to try harder and get with the program, etc. Personally when getting diagnosed I went through the 5 stages of grief because the thought of having been fundamentally different all your life (a difference which you will never be able to change) and mistreated for it when you weren’t “wrong” all along makes you unload all the anger and sadness and loneliness and sheer trauma you’ve built up over time. Like it’s world shattering.

So! Back to seeing dogs as family. Also I implore you to value experiential evidence when it comes to autism and other neurodivergences because brains are complicated and neurotypicals not being able to understand us well even with scientific research is like, a whole thing even though we’re right there speaking about how we feel and being right every time because the topic is literally us and how we experience the world.

Disclaimer for this whole post that, of course, no group is a monolith and everyone has different experiences or can diverge from the norm of the group, and that doesn’t diminish the validity of either side! Like, I know autistic people who have trauma with dogs and hate them. But, trends do happen, and in this case... Autism is very “My experiences with humans make me feel dehumanized in a bad and lonely way so instead I’ll dehumanize myself in a good and inspiring way”.

“I was treated like a failed human my entire life and you’re surprised that my response was to become a dog.” -Patricia Taxxon

It’s literally well recorded that autistic people relate to animals more than humans globally. With this post, besides spreading autistic Laios truthism and explaining why the portrayal hits so deep for so many, I want to show in what way this is a very specific experience and not looking at his character through an autistic lense really misses a lot of why he’s everything that he is. (Tacking allegedly onto here for legal reasons, different interpretations are valid etc etc /gen). This honestly isn’t super long though.

To define an important term, anthropomorphism in the studies and in this post means to attribute human traits to the nonhuman, which not only includes anthro furry designs but also animals irl, inanimate objects, and animated media as opposed to live action, to humanize them and empathize with them.

Paper: https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/aut.2019.0027

“Dogs taught me how to hunt and socialize and work in groups”, Laios having internalized body language... So real so real. I, too, make a great dog impression. And I want to emphase the part that it helps greatly develop a sense of emotions and relationships! For Laios, he didn’t get along with kids his age, it was him, Falin and the dogs against the world. Since it’s a group of dogs too, it taught him group dynamics and social hierarchies (like with Falin being considered as being below the dogs in authority according to the dogs rip), and the importance of group coordination when hunting.

For me, I cannot like, concisely explain just how much animals were important to me developmentally. I also grew up with dogs, but like I vividly remember encounters with like hamsters as well just radically shaping my understanding of boundaries, the importance of giving something space and the way you interact with them and respect their side of it. Unlike humans they don’t really mask how they feel, it’s direct cause-effect reaction and data gathering. There are no words involved, so the focus on having a perfect phrasing and tone is gone, leaving just pure interactions.

There’s also no reason to mask how you feel either, and you don’t have to feel silly over wanting to form a connection and it showing, what, is the dog gonna laugh at you because you obviously want to make friends with it? Toshiro or Kabru might, but dogs and cats will just tell you to fuck off and leave it there worst case scenario. I often say that I think one reason Marcille is special to Laios and he feels comfortable around her is because she emotes INTENSELY, she gestures, she puts her whole body into it, her facial expressions are pretty exaggerated and her ears even emote too- like with a dog’s ears!

I think there’s def also things to be said about how he gravitated towards Izutsumi at first, all excited, was eager to sleep in the same bed as her, but in the Izutsumi sleep rating chart we see they really just casual and chill so it’s not a Laios talking to Shuro deep into the night situation just a “I like sleeping besides animals” situation and that is enough to hype him up. I love how he pet her in the extra about why Chil let her sleep with him too. He’s just so transparently eager to befriend her, even if in the end they weren’t all that compatible and he accepted that.

There are honestly so many examples I could give for this. Like Grandin the famous cow lady.

More about autism & empathy:

https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/double-empathy-explained/ (Also mentions a study in which groups of autistic, allistic then a mixed group played a game of telephone and both singular groups had similar levels of information retention, but the mixed group was significantly worse. As an autistic person yeah duh, obviously autistic people are different from one another and can have plenty of interpersonal issues, but communicating with other neurodivergent people feels pretty intuitive and straightforward and comfortable. One of the reasons why neurodivergent people tend to naturally gravitate towards each other I suppose.)

^ Paper: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5932358/ For good, extensive summary of why we relate to animals so much you can go to the “anthromorphizing and asd” section of the paper. This paper extends to our widespread liking of cartoons and robots as well. Ok so this is a whole thing I won’t get into here but this is a big reason why a lot of autistic people are agender leaning as well. Genders and queerness in general is a lot about social constructs, and being queer is being marginal to these, not fitting into boxes or challenging those social norms and conventions. Queerplatonic relationships are a great example of this, where the framework of the relationship is platonic but the intangible nature of what it is exactly is the point, not familial not anything but everything at once too, just adoration, I like to say having pets is a bit like it as well, bc obvi it’s not romantic and often not fully familial, very platonic but also sooo much cuddling and adoration and kissing and whatnot that you wouldn’t typically do with a friend or family member. I’ll talk about qpr and labels another day though.

I got carried away but queerness in Dunmeshi is something I 100% want to make a big post on one day. Experiencing the world with different guidelines and not registering things to have the same boxes, sigh. Personally I also relate to Laios on a gender level, “cis by default because I don’t care all that much but if I were to dig deeper I’m probably otherkin and I want to be socially associated with traits of monsters and animalistic rather than man/woman” sighh hard to be a cryptid in this day and age. I wish we had a term like furry but for monsters, I want to be in the fantasy or folk tale genre ty, like changelings. Goshh changelings... You know, the irl myth where people said their neurodivergent kids were fairies’ children instead of human. Diminished physical sense of self means I see myself as some unknowable black void aesthetic wise, but like in a way that simultaneously makes me feel seen. Like becoming a monster, losing your sense of self but also somehow just being simplified and seen for what you are, it’s weird to try and explain. This post is more about relating to the nonhuman than about seeing yourself as such, but like connect the dots right, that IS an important point of Laios’ character. It’s because our brains literally work different than allistics which makes us feel as other, but also because of social ostracization and functioning in a different way than society at large, living in the margin of society, being weird and non-conforming.

Meanwhile, animals and social norms... Like ok, showing your neck and rolling on the ground to show that you’re friendly and harmless and play biting might not be proper. But have you considered that it’s also fun and feels very intuitive. Play with a dog in the dog’s way I promise it is so nice and freeing. Play tug of war and growl back when they growl. Hiss at your cat to tell them they do something wrong, engage with them on their level.

Autism made social life hard, but it made animals easy. Do you have anyyy idea how good it feels to mask all day every day and feel constantly misunderstood or like you’re doing a performance but then you can just, drop all of that in the company of animals and they understand you. They understand you. You form an understanding and rapport so easily.

And this whole thing with Laios is so explicit too, with the Winged Lion saying “You’re sick and tired of the human world”. Notice the choice of words. Sick and tired of the human world. Exhausted from the constraints, sick of the mind games. It really isn’t as much about loving monsters as it is about loving the nonhuman. Relating to them because you feel that you can actually understand how they work and think, and feeling like they could understand you back as well. Animals are safe.

Like I could go on about how Laios admiring even just demi-humans like orcs is because they’re socially seen as non-humans more than any true physical thing, that they’re not bound by human society and its rules and live with their own lifestyle. But it would deal myself 1000 points of psychic damage and I am not ready to cry today. It’s idealization 100%, and like, Laios DOES want to be treated as human, to be valued, but it feels like an unreachable thing meanwhile becoming a monster is instant gratification and freedom and a sense that now no one will be able to hurt you in a way that reaches you, never again shall you be defenseless, and then if people dehumanize you then that only strengthens your sense of identity as a monster and UGHH ugh ugh.

And like. This post is a mess at this point but if you want to kinda delve into the more “why” then I recommend this Patricia Taxxon video essay. It starts out on a very different topic, but it’s all about autism and finding comfort in the inhuman. Long story short is othering made us like this also animals are just simpler to intuitively get along with.

So when I post this

I mean it. I really mean it when I say he’s me. I have never felt so seen. So many conflicting emotions all wrapped so concisely yet so intangibly woven into the whole storyline so subtly.

Not being depicted as a monster of an human being for feeling/having felt that way?? The manga understands you. The world can understand you. Other humans can understand you. You can bond with them. You can. And I think that’s a big part of Dungeon Meshi too- Laios opening up to others about how he really is and his interests, and all the bumps on the way but how it was the only way to truly get to know each other and bond. With the climax being Laios confronting head on his complex with monsters and humans, and his monster-loving side and animalistic side being exactly what saves the whole world, what saves humanity. Because Laios does value his friends, does think humanity has beautiful sides to it, he wants to help it thrive and eat and become more accepting, carving out a kingdom for misfits and demi-humans. At the end of it, transforming into a monster and being free is a daydream fantasy, and the reality of it is that Laios does belong in the world as he is, and does receive and give out love.

If you enjoyed this you’ll probably like some of my other Laios analysis! Here’s an analysis of his succubus and what it says about his relationships with other humans. And here’s an analysis about his relationship with Shuro from his perspective.

#dungeon meshi #delicious in dungeon #laios touden #character analysis #i guess #dungeon meshi manga spoilers #spoilers #autistic laios touden #asd #autism representation #meta #draft so old it uses the old Tumblr post editor #it would be much better if i could put them side to side rip #i also wanna do an analysis trying to pin down his level of social awareness #i love that the monster story epic saga about misfits and your place in the world on an ecosystem level is just sooo autistic so perfect #this post has a weird structure but hopefully it can showcase some things and make ppl understand and others relate! I know we're out there #hiii therians how we feeling today. Brain chemistry is weird but ours is just wired different not broken #feeling self-conscious bc even with studies this is the equivalent of going 'trust me bro I get it' which usually doesn't go well with us #Humanity is beautiful <3333 Humans are social animals broski love yourself!!!

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whetstonefires · 7 months

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A fantastic thing about Wangxian is that they both have vast, bulletproof, towering edifices of self-esteem.

They know they're hot shit, they know almost nobody can compare; nothing changes their minds about this at any point. Even at their lowest they think highly of themselves; they're confident in their capabilities and judgments, and that they can outperform their peers.

They're arrogant, and they can back that shit up, and they have backed it up so often they're unshakeable on the subject of their own excellence.

This enormity of self-esteem is not at all incompatible with compromised self-worth, especially on Wei Wuxian's part, because the titanic self-destructive hubris that combination instills is the engine that drives his epic tragic backstory. But that's different! Thinking you're expendable and thinking you're inferior are separate judgements, that can certainly influence but don't force one another.

And one of the reasons this is cool is how the story holds them up against characters that are mostly pretty confident if not necessarily secure about their own value, but have very fragile self-esteem.

In varying ways, this is more or less what's up with Su She, Jiang Cheng, and Wen Chao.

Xue Yang also, but he's so weird about it it feels wrong to group him with those three.

Jin Guangyao is hard to place on this scale, because he shares wangxian's overweening sense of being better and more capable than other people as a rule, but he's not quite secure about it, and he shares Xue Yang and Su She's insane levels of conviction that he deserves to get what he feels is his due, at any cost to anybody.

But he definitely has a more complex relationship to that belief than either of them; su she's just like 'it's not fair!!!!!!!!!' about literally anything that doesn't go his way and xue yang is like 'obviously my finger is worth more than hundreds of lives because. it was mine.'

#hoc est meum #when jiang cheng's self-esteem totally cratered it took his self-worth with it and he just kind of. stopped.#but the rest of the time he knows he's a high-value person even if that awareness is tied so so tightly to his position in society #but his self-esteem is Brittle As Fuck #meanwhile lwj's sense of himself as among the best is very solid and secure and not vulnerable to being shown up #probably because he wasn't *emotionally abused* about not living up to lan xichen asd;lkfjfadkl #but his self-worth is definitely capable of taking hits when he fails to live up to his own high standards #in basically any way #he mostly grows out of this as he grows up #jiang cheng probably grew out of the insecurity SOME by proving his capability all that time #but definitely less because he was not able to make peace with his demons at all #(wwx is his demons)#mdzs #meta

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fuckmeyer · 9 months

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Jasper as a character is so interesting because he ends up a Confederate because he can't actually empathise with the slaves and because he simply accepts cruelty around him, and then when he becomes a vampire he literally can't ignore others suffering because it hurts him, but even decades after he becomes a Vegetarian he still can't get a hang of it partially because he still can't see humans as *people*. Idk there's smth to be said about him becoming a vampire because of his own cruelty and then being eternally in horrific pain because of said cruelty that fucks.

Jasper's whole life is a curse & i love to see it

here we have a Confederate supposedly so empathetic that he acquired a "gift"... yet not so empathetic as to recognize he was fighting for the enslavement of an entire race. despite seeing the consequences of slavery literally every day. now, the man who spent his last human days denying the humanity in others is forced to spend his immortal life being slapped in the face with their emotions. forever. hueeueueueu-

yeah, i would call that "gift" a curse, actually.

if Twilight weren't a horror story, we might see a discussion between Jasper/Bella about how immortality forces you to confront the darker side of your nature (e.g. "there will come a day when the societal beliefs imbued unto you leaves you standing on the wrong side of history"), & Jasper's journey with finding love & humanity. OR, y'know, he could've just had ONE (1) line where he says "yeah i'm not proud of my service." simply, if Twilight weren't a horror, Jasper could see the error of his ways & change for the better.

HOWEVER. Twilight vampires are "mentally frozen" when they turn, so Jasper is likely still a racist who does not regret his service. no matter how many times he is confronted with his cruelty, he won't change. meaning whatever life he chooses, his gift dooms him.

wow! eternal curse!

we see evidence of this frozen mental state in his decision to go vegetarian. he doesn't switch bc he feels bad about killing humans:

"I could feel everything my prey was feeling. And I lived their emotions as I killed them. [...] You've experienced the way I can manipulate the emotions around myself, Bella, but I wonder if you realize how the feelings in a room affect me." (Eclipse, Ch 13)

note the dehumanizing term "prey" & the focus on himself. he laments not that the human lives he's taking have value but that their dying moments harsh his vibe.

the irony! trapped as an empath while never possessing the ability to be an empath! CURSE CURSE C-

herein lies a bigger, juicier curse: Jasper is, himself, (hot take) enslaved in the sense that he will never know freedom, philosophically speaking, due to the choices he made in life. the series tries to paint him as a master tactician & competent leader; fanon often paints him as a free-thinking amoral black sheep. in reality, he simply obeys the commands of higher authorities & abides by their worldview regardless of how toxic it is to himself or others.

in the beginning, he had María.

he entered the Southern Vampire Wars not by his own volition but stayed because he was content not having a choice. however one feels about María, the fact of the matter is 1) as a newborn he was stronger, bigger, & faster than her & could have run away or overpowered her, 2) had the "gift" to identify emotions & could KNOW when/if she was malicious or manipulating him, & 3) could have escaped by influencing her emotions to make her disinterested in him. at any time in the 100 years they were together, he could have left. he talks about never knowing a life outside the war & discovering "options I'd never dreamed I had." ok???? run 100 miles in any direction & you would have seen a life outside of war. BOI-

instead, he took comfort in being submissive & adopting someone else's ideology. not only did it remind him of his past, but it meant he had no need to reflect on his actions or beliefs. he prefers others dictate his worldview & order him around even if it means being unhappy. he only left because he was going to be assassinated, & even then, it wasn't until someone else told him another life was possible that he "realized" another life was possible.

notably, the period where he's most free— living with Peter & Charlotte— is his rock-bottom where "the depression got worse." but, again, not because he realized the value of human life: "I was so wearied by killing [...] even mere humans."

then he meets Alice.

Alice, who has visions of being vegetarian & converts him so they can live with the Cullens. Alice, who dictates how her family should live their lives to the point where she manipulates them. Alice, who goes so far as to dress the Cullens, who orders Jasper to wait in the car while she & Bella go shopping, who Jasper refers to as "truly [...] one frightening little monster" because for all his experience she can still beat him in combat.

his eternal soulmate is authority.

despite being unhappy with his vegetarian life, as it makes him feel weak & coddled & a liability to everyone around him, he follows the lifestyle because Alice tells him to.

then there's the Volturi, another authoritative body. "We owe the Volturi for our present way of life," says acclaimed bootlicker Jasper Hale, who in the same moment shudders at the atrocities they committed, yet strangely sees no other way for a governing body to keep the peace... so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

but, since Carlisle outranks the Volturi as an authoritative figure in that he more closely aligns with Jasper's new worldview, Jasper sees no problem deposing the vampiric governing body if it means his sister-in-law of like 2 months can keep her demonic spawn. so i guess we don't really owe the Volturi that much

to his credit, we see glimmers of him questioning his leaders: 1) his decision to leave Maria, 2) his considering switching diets to defeat Victoria, & 3) going against the Volturi. but, again, these decisions are all just a result of his self-preservation & submitting to the higher authority du jour.

in the end, he has the perfect storm of conditions that would allow him to escape the prison he's created, to find freedom & to love humanity unconditionally... but he won't. Jasper's ultimate curse is that regardless of whether he realizes the enslavement of his own self, he will never leave his cage because it's cozy & easy & allows him to never think for himself.

AAAANYWAY Jasper's life sucks & he's trapped in an eternal prison of his own making. lol

#twilight #twilight renaissance #the twilight saga #jasper hale #twilight meta #twilight headcanon #you're right there really is something to be said about jasper the shitfuck confederate ending up in this situation!!!#like it would be tragic if it wasn't so comedic and if he didn't display a modicum of self-awareness!!!!#you make a great point about how he accepts cruelty his whole life and even when he's unable to ignore it he just is forced to accept it fo #ever #the absolute *chefs kiss* curse. smeyer coudlnt have written a better curse if she tried #in fact i do believe ALL the cullen gifts are actually curses in their own way #and it's so delicious to think about it that way #god i just love thinking about twilight as a horror #you're right riote- It Fucks #thanks for sending this my way!#cheers~

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mrpsychokiller · 4 months

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tex red vs blue is insanely transgender but im the only one who sees it that way because im crazy in the head.

what if there was a past version of yourself. a woman, a wife, a mother, with long hair and a sweet smile. and she died long ago. and you are her. but you are not her. you're nothing like her, but the people who knew her desperately want you to be her, want to preserve the memory they have in their minds of the woman they loved through you. but you never asked to be her, never asked to carry the burden of someone else's expectation of who or what you should be. you have a new name. you prefer to go by this one. people remark on how weird it is that it's a guy's name. sometimes the people who loved [the past version of] you call you by your old name. they are not referring to you when they say it. you live in the shadows of someone who's long gone, and you're something different now, but you don't feel like you're ever allowed to define yourself on your own terms, to be your own person, to control your own life, because you exist solely through the memories people had of you. and the longer she has been gone for, the more desperately people try to get her back, the less you resemble her and the less you know who you are, or if you ever even got to be anything at all. what i mean is that transition could have saved him

#🧃#rvb #red vs blue #DONT ask me why i got up in a cold sweat at 7 am with thoughts on tex red vs blue. i miss her so bad #anyways i do think if anyone in rvb could ever be actually trans coded (which nobody is because theyre created by fucking rooster teeth)#its gotta be tex #but because i know a trans subtext couldnt ever possibly be intentional i also think tex is a fascinating subject on the #''dead wife'' trope and the way stories like this treat female characters #and how tex's existence somehow seems surprisingly self aware as she actively rejects being the Dead Wife #and its brought to attention how existing solely as the angst memories men had of their dead wives #actively denies her of agency as a person inside the narrative #but also more generally denies dead wife characters agency in any narrative theyre written on #tex's struggles as a character inside her narrative are also the struggles of fridged/killed off female characters outside their narratives #on a meta textual level by being written by men in male centered stories who dont allow the women they write to exist as people #tex is a fascinating character and i am fucking furious she exists in a that stupid ass show. ill save you girl. ill take you out of there

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yeetlegay · 2 years

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What gets me lately is how Vegas is always trying to outdo Kinn both professionally (mafia-ly) and personally, and yet Kinn is the one who has a kiss embargo out of a fear of it being a gateway to real intimacy and vulnerability. Of the two, Kinn is actually the one who’s fallen in love before and knows what barriers to put up to keep it from happening again. He knows how to keep people out, when he wants to.

But Vegas doesn’t have that experience to jade him about what intimacy is emotionally dangerous for him. He throws himself right into kissing Pete, fucking him, lying in bed with him, completely oblivious to how thin a line he’s treading. He’s fucked up and traumatized and repressed, but where Kinn’s walls are carefully, meticulously built and designed to leave no weakness, Vegas built his walls for show, to intimidate people so much they’d never bother trying to knock them down. It’s no wonder he crumbled the second Pete made the barest effort to find the way in.

#I just….like when you watch that scene from ep 12 it’s so striking how Vegas just GOES for it no hesitation #no ‘what does this mean’ or ‘oh no a romantic epiphany’ bc he has so little self-awareness it doesn’t even click for him what’s happening #he’s that line from pride and prejudice: ‘I was in the middle before I knew that I had begun’#kinnporsche #vegaspete #mini meta I guess lol #tiiiiiny

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spite-and-waffles · 2 years

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Do you ever revel in how fucked up your blorbos are? Idk about you but I love that (Pre-52) Dick is a sanctimonious asshole and huge bitch, Jason is a hypocritical self-serving sociopath, Tim is an insufferable and petty fuck, Babs is a control freak with an ugly jealous streak, Cass is a cocky and infuriatingly stubborn little brat, Steph is an angry and reckless punk, and Damian is a supercilious little snot. I love it even when it gets on my nerves. I want them to grow and develop and be better but never entirely lose those fundamental flaws. And not all of them will ever fully reconcile or be at ease with each other or ever become a cohesive and healthy family unit and I fucking love that too.

#characters need to be a little unlikeable for me to love them #they're all such different flavours of asshole and i love them so much #look at them #self-awareness of goldfish crackers #my beloveds #dick grayson #jason todd #tim drake #cassandra cain #stephanie brown #barbara gordon #damian wayne #batfamily #bat meta #blorbo appreciation post #spite waffle

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naranjapetrificada · 7 months

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The first thing I should ever have said about Izzy and the last thing I intend to say until at least October 26th.

[Although I am not Her strongest soldier, so who knows if I will stick the landing.]

So to start with, I was a "late" arrival to the show. I knew it existed of course, but I only occasionally saw things that reminded me it existed. The first time I saw a mention of "grumpy/sunshine" it was with a picture of Ed and Stede, so I guess on some level I knew there was shipping going on, but that was literally all I knew. I didn't even know it involved Blackbeard lol.

Which is all to say that I first approached and watched season 1 removed from basically anything anyone had to say about it. I think what actually got me to watch it wasn't anything anyone had to say either, it was from youtube recommendations? Like I think I had watched a couple Taika interviews or something and ofmd stuff started showing up? So after catching a few clips and intentionally spoiling the kiss for myself (life is too short to be queerbaited) I watched it in April/May 2023, and was Changed by it the way so many other people were. It grabbed me so hard I started looking for fics, and when fic grabbed me even harder I became a regular tumblr user for the first time ever in June 2023.

What I didn't do, before the second half of 2023, was care particularly much about Izzy Hands.

I remember describing him as psychologically fascinating to the first IRL friend I talked to about the show, and joking that he just needed a good dom. As much as his decision to call in the navy was a threat to Stede's and Ed's lives, I saw his actions as part of a thing needed for the story, and while I knew he was one of the season's villains there wasn't really any heat behind that assessment.

For me he was there to set things in motion, and to serve the narrative in certain ways, to be a foil, more storytelling tool than man. That doesn't mean I didn't think Con did an excellent job adding layers to him, he absolutely made Izzy take up space and feel more present and textured than he otherwise might have. But when I began to zoom out and consider things on meta level, Izzy existed to do a certain thing or occupy a certain place in relation to the narrative and other characters more than anything else. And that was fine.

Then I started reading meta here, and found myself surrounded by passionate conversations about Izzy from many directions occurring with an intensity that I couldn't wrap my brain around. I saw people tying themselves into knots to justify and excuse the behavior of a textual antagonist, and I was baffled and because I still saw Izzy for what his role in the narrative was, it literally made no sense to see his behavior explained away. In the framework I brought to the fandom when I first arrived, trying to explain away Izzy's behavior would be like looking at a forest fire and trying to explain away processes like combustion and oxidation. Or if you'll allow me to borrow another extended, nature-based metaphor from a fic in an entirely different fandom:

Again, because from where my head was at, it didn't make sense to look at Izzy's morality as a zero sum game because in this metaphor, he was functionally just a brackish body of water. I'm not saying the morality is brackish, I'm saying the morality was literally not the point because like an estuary, an antagonist "must exist" because antagonists exist for specific reasons directly related to storytelling goals.

So there was no real heat behind my feelings about him or his actions, beyond the natural emotional reactions we have to characters and their behaviors before we zoom out. I was of course upset with his treatment of Lucius, which was targeted compared to other members of the crew. I was annoyed with the way he talked to and about Ed. I laughed when his plans had the equal and opposite results of what he intended, which you could argue happened with every single plan he made for the entirety of season 1. And yes, especially as a Black person living in the US, I felt the fear and betrayal that comes from seeing someone call the cops (which given the show and its writers, it does not feel like a stretch to describe calling the navy that). I wondered if there was any coming back from a choice like that, which is a big overriding question for the series as a whole.

I'm not here to debate any of the points in the previous paragraph. I know how I feel and you feel how you feel and there's already been so much said about the morality of it all by people who have explained themselves well, so let them convince you or not. Instead I've been trying to talk about the two sides of my experience before and after getting into the fandom with Izzy.

Before: Izzy Hands, Narratively Useful Antagonist Portrayed Compellingly And Effectively by Con O'Neill.

After: Izzy Hands, Unfortunate Avatar Of The Sadly Common Tendency For Certain Fans To Hyperfocus On A White Antagonist Or Secondary Character When There Already Exists A Protagonist They're A Foil Of (And Also It Looks Bad TO Do That When The Protagonist Is Someone With A Marginalized Identity).

I'm not here to argue the merits of those assessments either, because that's not the point. The point is the vast gulf between them and how the latter does such an incredible disservice to the Izzy we were given and that so many people claim to love. The latter comes from a place where morality is the focus, which I'm sorry y'all, feels like it originates with people who refuse to countenance Izzy's role in the story as well as his characterization.

Viewers who were willing to see Izzy as an antagonist, who don't view the word "antagonist" as a value judgement in and of itself, who don't think that finding an antagonist charismatic or compelling means anything about their own morality, those people can look at the show we were given and take it for what it was made to be. I'm not saying that it's only the Izzy stans (not enjoyers, not jar people) who start fights or that people who understand that Izzy is an antagonist don't also have deep morality related feelings about him and his actions in the first season. What I am saying is that sanding off Izzy's rough edges and trying to make him into something he isn't poisons even the possibility of having a discussion about him because people enter the conversation with two completely different understandings of reality. If you cannot accept the job that season 1 Izzy was given to do to move the story along, well you might as well have watched a completely different show for how much that fanon Izzy has anything to do with the canon one.

This show deserves better than that. The writers deserve better than that. Con O'Neill deserves better than that. Israel Basilica Hands deserves better than that. We all do.

#I know some of y'all are allergic to calling season 1 Izzy a villain or even an antagonist much less a villain #but given how self aware this production is about tropes it's weird to pretend that's not literally his function #at least in season one #maybe there are changes to that on the horizon #but we won't have the complete picture until Oct. 26 so maybe chill if people have an antipathy toward him #especially because at least a third of that antipathy is rooted in how criticizing him AT ALL acts like a summoning ritual #and I have to wonder about the acrimony levels if people felt like they could offer critical opinions easily #anyway rip my notifications probably #ofmd #our flag means death spoilers #ofmd spoilers #ofmd speculation #ofmd meta #fandom meta #fandom fuckery #character meta #let izzy be izzy #izzy hands #izzy critical #the izcourse #and now to filter literally every Izzy tag until November so I can enjoy the season in peace #that's as close as I'll make it to the halcyon days of my season 1 watch #ofmd s2 #ofmd season 2 #ofmd season 2 spoilers #ofmd s2 spoilers #ofmd s2 speculation #ps I won't be responding to replies because look at the title of this post

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yea-baiyi · 11 months

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nailing my theses to the door: the way hua cheng acts about xie lian is precisely how those carefully non-toxic insane kpop stans behave. like “i love them and support them no matter what” and “let’s respect their boundaries” and “let’s raise a ridiculous amount of money for charity in their name” but also “every inch of my bedroom walls are plastered with their face” and “i spend hours every day getting into arguments online defending them against haters” and “i collected all 700 of their album photocards” and “i have them blocked on twitter so they can’t see my smut fics” and most importantly “if they end up dating someone i’d be devastated, but as long as they’re happy id support them no matter what”

#tgcf #hualian #my hyperfixation demon #tgcf meta #meta stuff #i have a whole au about this #but also as a veteran non toxic insane kpop stan #like. the way hc acts about xie lian is exactly just that #the parasocial relationship is real but he is acutely aware it is one sided #and he goes to great lengths to personally police himself against crossing any boundaries #that’s why i SAY. he tries so hard not to be toxic #but it doesn’t mean his obsession isn’t utterly insane and over the top. bc it is #but he’s self aware and tries to do it in a way that won’t hurt xie lian in any way #have u guys ever navigated the non toxic stan culture that exists on social media. it’s a minefield. the way they fucking talk #anyway

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ms-all-sunday · 4 months

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the thing about pudding is that she both kins sanji and is in love with him. shes literally just abuse victim/mentally ill girl wish fulfillment she loves sanji because she admires all of the traits he has that lead him to becoming a more independent person because she wants them for herself. therefore liking him lead to character development on her part. sanji inherently unlocked for her "i love you therefore i love myself" and that relationship is so compelling to me.

sanji i think recognizes this and swims in the praise which is why hes like sooo objectively normal while obviously giving her special attention in wci. like hes like "ah how i thought about ace" and because of that hes not romantically attracted to her but does recognize the important relationship they have enough to deliberately be nice to her with no expectation of anything beyond that.

WCI is about romance as a construct, it's about romance as a tool and romance as a reflection of what you yourself want. in WCI oda begs you to question how romance is used to convey things and the societal construct of hetero-normative relationships. sanji and puddings relationship is a DIRECT criticism of these constructs (they dont actually like eachother and are fake to eachother all the time) but also an acknowledgement that once heteronormativity and romance as a construct isn't expected then we can truly connect as people. and theres validity and importance and deep emotion tied to puddings feelings for sanji, that are not fake. but cannot exist within the construct of traditional romance, because traditional romance is a transaction between men and women. not an expression of your identity, your wants, your desires, your hopes. (which is exactly what puddings feelings towards sanji are. a reflection of herself)

i know inherently the age gap between them is weird and to be honest it isnt ideal but i dont inherently dislike the kiss in wci because it validates puddings relationship towards sanji which is so important for her. not only validating her romantic feelings but validating that as an extension of what she wants for herself which is like really realistic for a teenaged girl and also like pudding is me. pudding is fucking me. you have to understand how important this is pudding is me.

#modposts #op #one piece #meta #charlotte pudding #black leg sanji #stories are all so obsessed with romance as a construct that i love when op deals in romance because its so self aware about the flaws in #expectations of romance #and if a character is flirting with another character it means something deeper about them #than this girl is a girl and this boy is a boy #which is why i really connect with it #whole cake island

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megamindsupremacy · 1 year

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The way the clock symbolism is such a heavy aspect of Goncharov analysis. The way the movie has been lost to time, only to resurface in 2022. The way the movie has never existed, and was created by all of us and sent back through time to find legitimacy. The way the opening scene of Goncharov's death loops to the ending scene of the same. The years the post drifted mundanely before being picked up and blasted into popularity. The meta analysis of Goncharov pointing out fandom tropes and stereotypes used time and time again. The cyclical nature of history and the subversions Scorsese and JWHJ 0715 play off of it. The way the clock symbolism is such a heavy aspect of Goncharov analysis.

#mads posts #goncharov #listen i think the meta analysis of goncharov is so cool #especially the self awareness it shows

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raayllum · 7 months

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in honour of this post, tags on another of mine i cannot remember that talked briefly about Rayla's issues, and that I've talked about Claudia and Callum's moments of being hypocritical, now I want to actually talk about Rayla's hypocritical tendencies cause it's something S4 and S5 made a fun little consistency - let's dive in

Rayla can sometimes ignore (or react indignantly to) other people possibly having their own reasons/justifications because she's tunnel visioned into only thinking about her own justifications as uniquely warranted

Let me explain

The first time I noticed this was in 2x03, mostly because it was one of those moments that made me laugh even though it's not trying to be funny because

Cause Rayla, honey, you know you lied to them too ("lying and hiding the truth aren't that different") - and Callum forgave you for that and is still your friend. Why would Claudia and Soren be any different to him? (And they are, but not the point of this point).

Now, unlike Soren (who is the person they're primarily discussing), Rayla didn't lie outright, but she did lie by omission - much the same way Claudia did. And Rayla has known her own motivations all along - probably worried they might give up on their mission if they knew (especially at the start), and she doesn't want them to hate her, and most of all by this point in the show, she didn't want to hurt them ("I'm afraid of hurting him" / "when you care about someone, it's hard to hurt them").

This made sense to me in terms of Rayla being good at being initially (often times rightfully, sometimes not so) indignant on her own behalf. She is able to justify herself and does so often, both angrily - as the next examples will show - and more neutrally ("How could I take his life?"). She defends herself both physically and personally to Corvus ("I didn't kill anyone"), she smarts at Callum when he (rightfully) tries to push at her ("I don't have to explain anything to you"), and is mad at Ethari when they initially talk ("Yeah, it's me. Surprised to see my face?"). This initial defense of herself doesn't usually persist and typically gives way to self loathing ("I can fix this" / "I don't deserve your trust, not yet" / "They're right to reject me") but it is there at first and is usually her first reaction, which is very fun.

However, this coupled together with the other two instances arc 2 brings up in terms of her being kind of a hypocrite makes it a pattern, beginning in early season four. (Callum also isn't at his best in early season four, saying he doesn't want to talk about stuff and then bringing it up the next episode to take a jab at her - but he's still dealing with the fallout of the problems she caused, so he absolutely gets more of a pass. As always, see my In Defense of Callum's Narrative Lens from way back in the day if you're interested in more of how his perspectives are portrayed.)

Because gee, Rayla, I wonder whose fault that is? And again, it does make sense that she's angry - she's spent two years just wanting to be with him with none of the messy complex heartbreak he had to go through because she was the one who made the choice to leave. She expected him to at least shout at her, not ice her out completely. And again, we see that initial indignant streak fade when he reiterates he wants to go, and she looks down disappointed, but accepting of it (and puts whether she'll stay or not in his hands, too).

Since she had a good reason for leaving, and it's what her parents did, while she expected anger, she also wants affection and love. Isn't her justification enough, in some ways? Shouldn't it be? And while Rayla wrestled back and forth with this, it's clear she does think that it should be (even if both seasons show she's starting to realize just why she was wrong).

But we do see this hypocritical tendency of hers perhaps pop up most prominently in S5 with Nyx

Again, in Rayla's head, lying and stealing the key wasn't perhaps the right thing to do, but the better thing to do than burden Callum with what she was going through / to be open and vulnerable. It makes sense why she'd do so - and her shot at Nyx gets a tiny pass cause she's technically sticking up for Ezran - but it still falls back on Rayla leaning too heavily on her logic / independent streak to justify actions that are actually counterproductive to having healthy, wilfully open relationships.

And this is something I love about TDP. Even when the characters are genuinely making the worst possible fucking decisions they ever could (hi arc 1 Viren, Claudia and Karim constantly in particular) you completely understand how and why they're justifying those decisions, and Rayla is no different. Doesn't mean they're right, doesn't mean it's not logically stupid or fair or whatever, but it's emotionally consistent, and that's what matters most in the end. And now we have a fun little consistency to add to the pile

#in that vein of 'ezran can steamroll others bc the emotional solution is so obvious to him /#he suppresses the hell out of shit' spirit #tdp rayla #characterization #mini meta #analysis series #tdp #the dragon prince #like i love rayla but she's so full of shit sometimes lmao #analysis #like rayla really is a character where one of her core flaws is both #a lack of grounded self awareness amid too much self awareness #bc sometimes she's on the right path about her actual flaws (lying & leaving)#and other times she's so off base it's like girl what planet are you on this is Not one of your problems #steering her into the pile of actual flaws lmao #also why callum is good for her #'nah you're good. but that other dumb shit you did? jc"

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ouidamforeman · 19 days

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related to prev post i just reblogged but as a certified Deranged Close ReaderTM of the good omens novel i sometimes remember some of the shit that's in it and feel insane, esp when i think about how often it does this weird thing where something is a Joke but at the same time deadly serious or revelatory or containing critical information or later revealed to be very serious in another part of the book. its like fridge horror but managing to be funny the whole time and used as a device in itself to convey information. ik this is very "just read more books" of me but I just like it and think it's very weird and rewards close reading in a way thats more fun than usual lol

#i dont even know how to explain this bc ive never seen it elsewhere in the same way so i cant articulate myself #like the level of everything being jokes and yet not deflecting any information because everything is jokes #i think i latched onto this hard bc its very close to how i naturally see the world lol #there are absolutely things in this book that most people have dismissed as jokes and i think that invalidates that like #im p sure the text is self aware of this and is intending for you to gain information from them lol #anyway i dont think im making any sense i just like my weird little comedy novel :)#good omens #book omens #go meta

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fuckmeyer · 9 months

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oooh bestie i just read your jasper gift-as-curse analysis (agree 100%!!! it fucks severely!!!!) and in your tags you mention thinking of all of the cullen "gifts" as curses and...i am going actively insane thinking about rosalie in that frame. like? her beauty carries over! and it's a curse in that people see that first and her second and assume that she's shallow...but also that was true in her human life as well and becoming a vampire seems like it maybe allowed her to transcend that and realize what was fucked up about her human experience??? WILD

Rosalie's gift is also a curse, but unlike Jasper's, i find it heartbreaking

it's a curse in that people see that first and her second and assume that she's shallow

VERY true. but the consequences of extreme beauty go beyond people chalking her up as shallow.

part of Rosalie's curse is that there are many aspects of her life where her looks play a role. & going through life requires either a degree of illusion or a degree of doubt.

for example: how many times as she been given— or been overlooked for— opportunities or merit because of her attractiveness? how many relationships has she tried to make, only to find the foundation of said connection was built on— or marred by— her looks? if Edward bothered to see past what he perceives as Rosalie's vanity, would they be closer as siblings? or, put another way:

In the first second that Emmett saw Rosalie, he saw a goddess whom he had worshiped without cease ever since. (Midnight Sun, Ch 6)

i'm not saying Emmett's love isn't real. but it's also clear he's immediately attracted to Rose physically; even decades later, their love is described as "intensely physical" (Ch 7). worshiping implies a degree of separation; there's a pedestal, a blindness, in the kind of love Emmett shows her. if she was average-looking, would he love her as she is, as an equal, without worship? would he even give her a second glance?

part of the curse is never knowing what's real. either she lives with a degree of doubt, or she lives with a degree of illusion.

another part of Rosalie's curse is that she also falls into the trap of seeing her face first and herself second. now, do i think Rosalie is vapid & a "stagnant pool of few surprises" (Ch 1)? no. she has a personality, she has hobbies outside of tending to or enhancing her beauty. but we do see her mesmerized with herself:

She’d caught sight of her profile in the reflection off someone’s glasses, and she was mulling over her own perfection. No one else’s hair was closer to true gold, no one else’s shape was quite so perfectly an hourglass, no one else’s face was such a flawless, symmetrical oval.

& we also see her play up her beauty in the vehicle she drives & the clothes she wears. she cannot look away from herself.

however, this is where i think we see yet another facet of Rosalie's curse. that is, being the most gorgeous vampire of the Cullens, there is a degree of intense scrutiny that comes with Rosalie's beauty. for all the illusion/doubt it brings her, she must be constantly aware of it. because this scrutiny is two-fold:

1) unlike someone like Alice who can pass as androgynous & is overlooked physically, Rose does not have the luxury of breaking traditional gender expectations lest she draw even more attention to the coven. in a sense, Rosalie is under more pressure to flawlessly perform the rituals of gender conformity because anything outside of the norm will be noticed more easily.

2) beyond that, the degree of attention she receives means she must constantly perform in a human sense, too: twitching, blinking, moving, behaving, etc. in this way, her looks become a hindrance to her vegetarian lifestyle.

so, she is cursed in that she's the face of the Cullen family & under pressure by the coven & society to perform. even if she wanted to escape her beauty, she cannot.

becoming a vampire seems like it maybe allowed her to transcend [her beauty] and realize what was fucked up about her human experience

but it kinda...didn't?

don't get me wrong, it did in some sense. as mentioned, Rose has picked up hobbies, dreams, & a personality. we do see her transcend her appearance; however, her beauty still traps her for the reasons above.

& to be honest with you bestie, it wasn't vampirism that allowed her to transcend her beauty. because if she had been turned, say, the day she got engaged, what kind of vampire would we see? her final days, her looks gave her everything she wanted, & now she ends up as the most ravishing creature on earth in the socioeconomic class she wanted. Rosalie wins. i'm not saying she would have wanted vampirism if she had been turned in better circumstances. but she would certainly be more divorced from reality, & i doubt she would find it as necessary to transcend her beauty since it got her what she wanted & confirmed her worldview.

it wasn't the vampirism that allowed her to transcend her beauty. it was the rape.

the rape tears the curtain back. the rape shows her all that glitters isn't gold. the rape teaches her that in the end, her beauty couldn't, & would never, save her. the rape tells her what a woman's place is in her world. the rape forces her to realize: for all Rosalie's beauty, she is awarded nothing, she is entitled to nothing, she can do everything right & still lose. the rape is what necessitated a change in Rosalie's beliefs.

i find Rosalie's curse heartbreaking because i do not doubt she has thought about this when she looks in the mirror.

she's more attractive now than ever, but that is what put her in that position in the first place. she's come to this horrific realization at an even more horrific cost. & everyone around her compliments how beautiful she is; everyone dreams about how wonderful their lives would be if only they could be so beautiful; everyone wishes they could be as beautiful as Rosalie Hale...

meanwhile, Rosalie sits with the uncomfortable idea that the thing that gave her everything she wanted is the same thing that led her to her rape, to her death— hell, Carlisle figured she'd make a good wife for Edward, so even her turning was a result of her beauty— & is now the very thing that traps her in a life she never wanted, performing eternally in a spotlight that will never dim.

#twilight #twilight renaissance #rosalie hale #the twilight saga #twilight meta #twilight headcanon #tw rape #thanks bestie you're so cool so putting this in my inbox!!!!!!!!!!!!#not to spoil Eclipse but i've thought about Rosalie's 'gift' a lot #and i think she would see it as a curse to a certain extent #because she has the self-awareness to understand why her actions were 'silly' and 'shallow'#i bet she also has the self-awareness to reflect on her death #hmmmm #ok these 'gifts as curse' questions are super interesting actually

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