#its kinda Tolkien but victorian

[old-world-bird]

Elvish squad and the wardrobe, year 18smth

Evan, Sylvia and Lettice

#artist on tumblr #original character #elf #fantasy #paint tool sai #its kinda Tolkien but victorian

[script-a-world]

Submitted via Google Form: Is it possible for a (kinda) isolated civilization to got a industrial revolution? This civilization spread around a whole continent with various resources: grain, wood, minerals, etc. Has different ethnic groups (principally separated by zone: north, center and South). The government it’s like a federal monarchy (I don’t know if that’s really a thing or not), that means that exist a central power but there are principles (is this the English word for the government of a prince? If not I apologise, English it’s not my first language) or provinces (specifically on the North and the South of the continent), that rule and regular their own lands, but answer to the king.

Also, this civilization has a long history, but had not a bronze age crisis (or a similar thing to). I don’t know if that can affect the technological development or not. Although the civilization has its dark ages that after motivated cultural, social and technological changes. They have a cultural capital in the South, where art and science are cultivated. Even there are sapient people of other continents. Reading and writing are beginning to spread around all social classes, but maintains the majority on nobility and sacerdotes.

Also, a civil war would stop or accelerate the industrial process or not?

I apologise for the large of my questions. But I tried to give you the more information I could.

Tex: It is indeed possible for an isolated civilization to have an industrial revolution, though they might follow a different path to it. I will get to explaining some particular nuances of that sort of “revolution” in a bit, but I would like to address some other things in your question first.

Federal monarchies are a thing, albeit rare, and usually constrained to theory because of the difficulty in real-world execution of the idea. Lands governed by a prince are called principalities in English, though sometimes also princedom (following the same -dom rules as kingdom).

The Late Bronze Age collapse - if that is to what you’re referring to? - is a dark age unto itself, and rather the opposite in terms of societal effect to a technological revolution. The causes and timing of a dark age will calculate the breadth and depth of impact to your society; in general, the more momentum a society has in terms of culture, science, and international relations, the more impactful and difficult it is to recuperate from a dark age.

“Reading and writing are beginning to spread around all social classes, but maintains the majority on nobility and sacerdotes.” What is the history behind this? Has the literacy rate risen gradually and steadily, or has it been irregular, marked by various events that would preclude a regularly increasing rate of literacy? If literacy has been restricted to the noble and religious castes, why so? Has your society had a Carolingian Renaissance before its industrial revolution?

The interesting thing about industrial revolutions is that they are built upon previous technological and scientific leaps - Wikipedia’s timeline of historic inventions parses them by era, and hopefully is available in your native language.

One of the main points of the eponymous Industrial Revolution is the shift from hand production to mechanical production. Electricity factored into this only at a later step, so it was not truly necessary to kick-start the first era. There are in fact many industrial revolutions (we are currently in our fourth), and I would like to note that they often coordinate with renaissances, staggered as they are around the world.

A federal monarchy, in this instance, would function as a sort of microcosm for global patterns of dark age → renaissance → technological revolution. You mention that the South is the cultural capital of your society, and seems to house much in terms of institutional knowledge. This area, then, would be the nexus point of your society’s economy. Regardless of any isolationism, centralizing the innovative parts of one’s society makes it especially vulnerable to collapse in the case of, say, a civil war.

The Athenian coup of 411 BC during the end of the Peloponnesian War is a good example of this. While the Athenians briefly enjoyed a restoration of their government (Wikipedia), it was dissolved a short while later (Wikipedia). Athens remained a cultural center, possibly by habit, though it had lost what remnants of bureaucratic authority and autonomy it once had.

If all knowledge of technological innovation is cloistered within one area, and that area is besieged by a war - civil or not, then it will definitely set your society back by however many ages of knowledge lost. Fortunately, many real-word societies were sensible enough to create and distribute copies for the sake of preserving cultural heritage, functioning also as an excellent PR move to laud the benefits of their society for the sake of both conquest and trade.

Provided that neither city (like Roanoke Colony and the Land of Punt) nor continent become lost, some knowledge will always be retained and utilized if necessary. Technological revolutions impart the advantage of freeing up human capital from menial labor that would otherwise take up a person’s time and ability to contribute to society in a meaningful way, which is economically beneficial.

I am not very certain how isolationism would factor into this, but it would seem that maintaining some degree of separation in multi- and international politics would be advantageous in advancing one’s society in the pursuit of knowledge. However, should others find rumors of this advancement, your society may eventually be approached by potential allies or enemies.

If there is a civil war occurring while your society is approached by outside influences, please be aware that these others may take advantage of this instability, especially if there are natural resources compounding the value of your society’s human capital. There is also the issue of relative stratification of different ethnic groups, since you had mentioned it - if the schism is along ethnic lines, then there’s potential for others to ally themselves along those lines, exacerbating the conflict. Either way, there is likely to be moral grounds upon which the conflict is centered, and interference from outside groups has the potential to heighten and polarize tensions.

To quote the play Agamemnon by Aeschylus: “In war, the first casualty is truth.” No war is truly without a morality, which may quickly become propaganda, in order to sway the participating peoples. The importance you ostensibly give the South as a center of culture in the same question of dark ages and civil wars and technological revolutions lends to me the idea that something happens with it in your story. Are its relations with its neighbors healthy, or strained? Why so? Is it - or someone else - pushing for advancement at the expense of cultural mores?

J.R.R. Tolkien’s novels are often accredited the message of anti-industrialism (Wikipedia, Medium, Tolkien Gateway - Oxford section) and the perpetuation of the Merry England ideology. This is something your society might see during cultural upheaval, particularly if it’s caused by innovation that at first seems to run counter to their culture. The arts might take on a facet of this conflict, particularly in literature under the form of social and proletarian literature. Le roman à thèse is a particular subgenre of this literature, one which focuses on persuading the reader to agree with the author’s argument. Factory girl literature maintains similar themes, critiquing industrialization primarily from the perspective of Asian authors utilizing the factory girl archetype.

In terms of literature recommendations, I have two more to offer you: A Dream of Arcadia: Anti-Industrialism in Spanish Literature, 1895–1905 by Lily Litvak (ISBN: 978-0292741300) and

The Lives of Machines: The Industrial Imaginary in Victorian Literature and Culture by Tamara Ketabgian. Both detail the reactions of a culture during and after an industrial revolution, and what type of counter-culture arises from it.

I think it is possible for an isolated society to have an industrial revolution, but it would likely be on a smaller scale than a non-isolated society, and their efforts might more be on rehabilitation of their environment and encouraging a more profound and beneficial relationship with nature, rather than chasing the next generation of shiny objects and possible advancements in warfare.

A federal monarchy may present some unique issues with this setting, because of its comparatively rigid bureaucratic hierarchy and propensity to shatter along federation lines - which is where I think conflict is most likely to lie in this situation - and your society may not regroup under the same parameters. Most likely, all of this would follow a previous industrial revolution, à la the Progressive Era of the US/La Belle Époque of Europe.

Your worldbuilding seems to indicate a circumvention of New Imperialism and jingoistic foreign policy, so unless somebody comes knocking at your society’s door, this industrial revolution and civil war you have mentioned might be very toned down in terms of potential impact. A parallel of the Long Depression is still feasible, and might be a major contributing factor in your society’s civil war.

#pylons #industrial revolution

[neechees]

Also like, in the ask I just answered, it’s so convoluted in my character meta I feel the need to explain it LMAO. I love talking about my OC’s so if you’re ready for some tolkien + oc headcanons, proceed

I think the biggest difference between my two girls conforming to societal standards is the culture they come from. Storm-Woman is based in pre-contact Plains Cree society, and her conforming to its standards isn’t bad at all. But it’s moreso her fear of like, not being good enough and just wanting to make other people happy that she gets so caught up in it. She’s afraid she’s not doing enough as a mother, sister, daughter, wife, etc. but of course, this is just all in her head. So when she makes a mistake and snaps, it’s her own fault. But her family and friends would love her no matter what, but she does make others happy.

but the culture I’ve made from Elliel are based on my headcanons from her backstory and Tolkien Lore. Elliel comes from a partially Doriathrin Sindar Elf background, and her parents were refugees after the fall of Doriath and Beleriand. I basically headcanon the culture of Elves at that time, in Doriath, to be similar to Victorian England (this is also inspired by the idea that Elves are like annoying Christians, and how Tolkien was writing them). So the culture there was very prissy, pretentious, shallow with respectability politics, and needlessly complex. So her parents came from this place and brought that with them when they went to live with the Falathrim (Sea Elves) in Harlindon, and again later in Mirkwood, and instead of assimilating to the culture, they just raised Elliel in it, despite the changing values and culture norms over literally thousands of years and she never really shook it off. Elliel’s mother Ithilwen was particularly militant about this and sort of looked down on other Elves, and died a Doriathrin Elf through and through.

So now Elliel just became this kinda judgmental person whose too hard on herself for standards that don’t apply anywhere to anyone but herself anymore. She did eventually adopt to the culture of Mirkwood, and she has a very special place in her heart for Harlindon (and herself identifies partially as Falathrim), but she’s still kind of shallow. Not necessarily a bad or mean person, but. still. Think of a British Victorian age vampire who changed their views for the contemporary world, but still has a habit of sticking with Victorian standards and polite societal behaviors and attitudes in 2019. That’s Elliel.

#out of all my OC's I've definitely worked the longest on Elliel in terms of headcanons and characterization #I think I know her the best and besides Idril she's definitely one of my oldest OC's #well one of the oldest that I put a big effort into developing deeply anyway #I made her in 2014 so #as a direct response after watching the last hobbit movie #oc;; elliel #oc;; storm woman #justin's shit

[eclecticmuses]

@recoveringrabbit replied to your post:

I feel you sister. I have windows up right now: "women's cycling in Victorian England," "popular songs about bicycling," "mourning a fiance," and "Newtonian gravitational theory." And I'm not actively writing that thing atm. Also, re: university, maybe a biography could help you? Tolkien went up around that time.

I love the fact that your research is currently bicycle bicycle bicycle PHYSICS. :D I’m going to be getting into some science soon myself, mostly engineering. Things I see in my future: Brass Era automobiles, history of the internal combustion engine, railroad construction safety practices/hazards, Cambridge vs Oxford for the natural sciences, Wellin davits, Edwardian Era scientific advances...and the best part? All of this is for stuff that will only be mentioned in passing.

The things we do for historical accuracy! Right? I’m not neurotic

@recoveringrabbit replied to your post:

I want to say that you had to pass your exams at the end of school and how well you did at those determined what kind of university you could go to and then you just went, assuming you could pay and you had the right connections, but I have no support for this whatsoever.

That’s what I’m thinking, but I wasn’t sure if there were separate entrance exams for each university, or standard entrance exams for university period. More below.

@agent-bash replied to your post:

So I actually took a history of education in UK course in university and I may still have the textbook. I'll look and see to be sure, but if memory served it worked a few different ways. 1) you did your end of schooling exams (similar-ish to  modern a levels) results determined what universities you could go too.    

@agent-bash replied to your post:

2) influence, standing, wealth, if you were rich enough or well connected enough you could get into anywhere because of the family name, so like Ward could get into Oxford even if he was stupid if his family was of the aristocracy or rich enough. 3) combo shot smart but poor kid gets the attention of a rich family who wanted to be his patron. kinda like a scholarship but given out completely at the families discretion usually to the child of a member of their staff 

@agent-bash replied to your post:

If its Fitz and he was poorer but smart and a wealthy family took note they could have paid for his education providing he got accepted (meaning the grades of exit exams) on his own merit. If he didn't have some kind of backer he probably wouldn't have gone, unless he did amazingly well and a university took note and gave him a scholarship but those were rare

Okay, here’s a question for you, if you are able to help: would those exit exams be absolutely mandatory for him to enter? What I’ve managed to come up with in my research so far is that school was compulsory up to age 14 in 1912, at which time the child could leave school and go to work. So say Fitz is poor, has only his mother, and she can barely support them on her own meager salary. At 14 he has no choice but to leave school and go to work to help out financially, even though he’s smart as hell. By the time he’s 17 or 18, university age, say he’s somehow attracted the attention of a wealthy patron. Patron wants to send him to university, but Fitz never went to secondary school/college/not sure what you guys call it, thus never did those exit exams. Would that make him inadmissible, or would he still be able to take an entrance exam to get in?

(Also I read that there were bursaries available through the Carnegie Trust after 1901 so it’s possible Fitz could have gotten some fee assistance but yeah I recognize that being poor it would have been extraordinarily difficult for him.)

(Just FYI Fitz is very likely not going to university but when I lay out my reasons why, I want to make sure I have my facts correct.) 

#about me #Stephanie tries to write stuff #Fitzsimmons #fs titanic au #watch the history nerd in me come out to play