#jewish sects

[rustchild]

ok i get the desire to push back against annoying dominant christian interpretations of the torah/old testament. i really do. however i also wish that people would stop being like “actually, the jewish perspective on this is--” before listing off one (1) jewish perspective, usually either reform or humanistic, that also happens to be the most politically convenient and moral according to the standards of tumblr. like y’all if anyone tells you that there is only one jewish interpretation of something you should know that they are probably wrong, there’s at least one jew out there who would vehemently disagree with them, and also judaism is a complex living culture that you really should not put on a pedestal

#like. yes the binding of isaac can be interpreted as a test that abraham failed. that's one interpretation #discussed in some sects by some rabbis #however. #there very much are also jews who interpret it as #a sign that jews specifically must be ready to sacrifice anything for g-d #in order to hold up our end of the covenant #there are jews who interpret it in completely different ways as well #like i can't list out all of them because #i don't know them #and am not a theologian or rabbi or even all that observant #so my interpretation isn't going to be very helpful #but can we please not oversimplify judaism to present it as the Good Abrahamic ReligionTM #it's a complex living tradition with a whole wide range of different ideas #some of which i personally hate! #because that's culture for you! #the one exception to the 'one jewish belief on x' thing is like #messianics #we basically all do not like messianics #or like. We Generally Agree That Antisemitism Is Bad #but when it comes to biblical interpretation? #four jews twelve opinions #always #jewish things #something something leftist philosemitism

[a-god-in-ruins-rises]

are there any or has there ever been any sects/denominations of christianity that were skeptical of or opposed to pauline christianity?

just the more i read about it the more hilarious/insane it is.

like...you have jesus. and you have his followers. then jesus dies. and his followers are left to preach his word and whatnot. then after years and years of doing all this work and building this jewish christian community.

then comes this dude named paul. not just any dude. but a pharisee who openly admits to having zealously and violently persecuted christians. and he's like "hey we should preach to the gentiles."

and you and all your bros (who literally knew jesus personally in the flesh and travelled with him and stuff) are like "no you have to be a jew to be a christian, sorry."

and then paul is like "actually no. i saw jesus in a vision. i think i know better. we're going to preach to the gentiles." and then he goes off and just starts sharing your little cult with all of these foreigners but a really strange version whose theology is quite different from what you understood and he writes these letters where he just says shit and people treat those letters literally like the word of god.

it just blows my mind. how did/do people buy that? he's just some nobody and all of his authority rests on his "i had a vision". and people ate that shit up. lmao.

#i'm not even mad #i'm impressed #and i'm not even necessarily saying he just made it all up #maybe he sincerely believed all the shit he was saying #it's just insane to think about #how much of christianity is based on this one guy's letters #some guy who never new a living jesus #but then claims to have the ultimate authority because he said so #and people just believed him #the only sect i can think of is the ebionites #but i'm wondering if there are any others that reject paul #kinda interesting to me that there isn't some anti-paul branch of christianity #though i guess paul's christianity was a lot more successful than the jewish christianity #so i imagine the jewish christianity probably just slowly petered out #pardon the pun

[miraclemaya]

that is, thinking about it, a very interesting thing where like a lot of lib zionists will paint judaism as being this one very solid and coherent thing which like i do not know much about modern judaism but that has 100% not been true throughout history and i do know about reconstructionist judaism vaguely so clearly it is just untrue right

#granted i only know about various historical jewish sects because of my interest in magic and the occult

[philosopherofabetterkind]

Little reminder for tomorrow's Valentine's Day, for all those who deny Israel's right to exist and still want to celebrate Valentine's Day on 14 February:

Valentine's Day, as it is celebrated in its current form in Western and Christian culture, goes back to a Christian saint and martyr or from the mixing of two Christian saints and named after him or both men. The two Christian saints are Saint Valentin of Terni and Saint Valentin of Rome. (It is also quite possible that both saints were one and the same person).

And we Christians are (Yeah, I know some of you baptised people out there would like to deny this reality, but sorry the New Testament is against you) a Jewish sect from Israel. Which only achieved the popularity and spread that made it today's world religion through the inclusion of Gentiles.

The first members of our early Christian church were Israelite Jews who saw in Jesus of Nazareth, an Israelite Jew too, the Messiah promised by God to his chosen people (the Israelites) and recognised him as such. And we Roman Catholics even trace our first pope back to an Israelite Jew — Saint Peter. (And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church […] (Matthäus 16,18 – ESV))

To summarise briefly for those who are confused:

→ Without Israel and Israeli Jews (including the Jewish faith), no Jewish sect, which later became the world religion called Christianity

→ Without Christianity, no Christian saints and martyrs, named Saint Valentin of Terni and St Valentin of Rome

→ Without a Saint Valentin, no Valentine's Day.

Get it? And if you're not hypocrites and enjoys in double standards, you should keep your hands off this holiday from now on. Or boycott it altogether, that's what you like to do. But of course you can still celebrate a festival of love and romance, I will gladly leave the Roman festival 'Lupercalia' to you. But wait, if you don't believe in the Roman gods, wouldn't that be cultural appropriation of an ancient and extinct culture?

Sources If you want to read more about the origin of Valentine's Day and Saint Valentin or want to check if I am telling nonsense, here are two English sources linked:

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Valentines-Day

https://www.italyheritage.com/traditions/calendar/february/14-san-valentino.htm.

And otherwise, just search for 'Valentine's Day origin' or 'Saint Valentin' with your favourite search engine.

If you want to read more about the beginnings and origins of Christianity, please read the New Testament. (I highly recommend the Gospel according to Matthäus, who wrote for the “Jewish Christians” * and placed great emphasis on proving Jesus as the promised Messiah of the Israelites.)

But of course it is also worth looking at the other gospels (Markus, Lukas, and Johannes) or the Acts of the Apostles (Can be found in the ESV under 'Acts').

If you don't have a Bible at home, you can read the English Standard Version (ESV) online for free: https://www.esv.org/ * The term “Jewish Christians” is used in this case to distinguish them from the so-called “Gentile Christians”. “Gentile Christians” refers to all Christians who are not Jews or who were of the Jewish faith.

#Valentine's Day #Saint Valentine #St Valentine of Terni #Christianity #Israel #Zionism #pro israel #Judaism #Jesus was an Israelite Jew #Christianity comes from a Jewish sect from Israel #Antisemitism #Anti-Zionists #Antizinoism #I'm so tired of double standards and hypocrisy #gaza

[transwolvie]

Thinking again abt that post that was like "Judaism so good how did Christianity wind up so bad" and like. Idk man I think of you uncritically call any religion good just based off their main tenets rather than acknowledging the ppl who twist things for their own gain, I think you're not only missing the point, but you're also purposefully stacking the deck. If you look at the core tenets of Christianity none of the shit they were talking abt (like sex being seen as shameful) are actually an intrinsic part of the religion. It's weird to me to both ignore that Christianity's actual canon does NOT involve a lot of the harmful things the religion is known for, and to ignore that Judaism also has sects that have purposefully ignored or willfully misinterpreted the Torah in order to push for things like imperialism, misogyny, etc.

Like..... it just comes off to me as someone who read a couple Tumblr posts abt progressive Judaism and just either doesn't know or doesn't care that conservative sects exist, or that, yknow, fuckin Israel exists. The way ppl have started approaching Judaism as some flawless baseline that can be contrasted against Christianity makes me uncomfortable, especially since it's so obvious that the ppl writing those kinds of posts are uh. Not Jewish.

#tomi talks #like i know I'm just someone who wants to conver5 #but as someone also generally interested in religion from a sociological standpoint #fucking BONKRRS to me that ppl act like Judaism is only its texts and yet simultaneously deride Christianity for Christians that act #in a counterintuitive way to the religion's actual textual demands. #like the Bible does not say you need to be ashamed of sex. the Bible does not say to do all the puritan shit that fundies do #but when those ppl act out those bad behaviors that becomes Christianity as a whole #yet these outsiders to the faith will ignore when Jewish sects make the same moves to preserve conservatism #like idk it grinds my gears a little #especially cuz the overall feeling i get is that it's never actually abt Judaism or understanding Judaism #it's just abt wanting to shit on Christianity #which like i get it man Christians ruined the world and tons of us have trauma from Christianity specifically #but you can't just use another religion as a bludgeon #especially if you're going to just fucking pretend that there aren't bad actors within LITERALLY EVERY RELIGION

[voidsuckers]

it pisses me off when zionists act like israel is some bastion of gay rights and marriage equality when, not only can gay people not get married, but if you're not orthodox you also can't get married (unless you convert to orthodoxy by a rabbi approved by israel)

like, even muslims have greater marriage equality in israel than that

israel is not a safe space for even jewish people

#can you imagine going to israel expecting to be accepted for being jewish and then finding out you can't get married if you're reform #not recognising marriage based on sect is one of the most absurd things i've ever heard of #it would be like if in ireland we just stopped recognising protestant marriages #txt

[bijoumikhawal]

Karaites are not a were (there are probably around 50,000 of them today), and they aren't biblical literalists. Karaites still interpret the Torah. They do not try to read the most obvious meaning out of it (which is still interpretation), they try to read what would have been obvious in Antiquity (which is also interpretation). Community leaders may often be Ḥakhamim (scholars) who are consulted regarding the Torah, and in the past compiled volumes of different interpretations (most have been lost). However, the only exaltation they have, to my understanding, is as scholars, filling an advising role. Every Jew in Karaite Judaism is encouraged to study the Torah and interpret it. All interpretations are held to the same scrutiny. The interpretations I've read from Karaites can be very satisfyingly logical (such as the "Tekhelet is woad" argument).

They reject that the Talmud is equal to or above the Torah, and I've seen a few different opinions from Karaites about what that means. One person I've bumped into said you shouldn't consult the Talmud at all, but the stance on the official site for American Karaites is as follows: "Rejection of the authority of the Talmud does not mean that the Karaites consider it unlawful to consult it or to rely on it; it means only that they deny its heavenly origin and regard it as an original work of the Sages in interpretation of the written Torah, and therefore subject to the shortcomings inherent in any handiwork of mortal men uninspired by heaven." Not to be controversial or anything, but I agree with them on that point. Further, that which directly contradicts the Torah is to be discarded as a custom, which is a contention with some Talmudic interpretations.

The rejection of the Talmud wasn't done for shits and giggles- it was likely a political choice reacting to the introduction of Islam, or in reaction to the consolidation of power among rabbis and how difficult the Talmud and additional interpretations risked becoming to learn, preserve, and transmit. There's a reason Sa'adiah Gaon was praised because “Were it not for Sa’adiah, the Torah might have disappeared from the midst of Israel", and it is notable that he was also a major opponent of Karaites. We don't actually know, because figuring out the beginning of Karaite Judaism is hard- some say it was a dispute over the Exilarch position (which Karaites say is made up, and some contemporary sources lack mention of), we have a document from 641 (i.e. the previous century) mentioning Karaites in Egypt, some think they were connected to Philo, others to some other group. But you don't break off from a major sect of your religion for fun!

Further calling Karaites biblical literalists invites one to think of Christian biblical literalists, which really isn't the case. For example in some ways Karaite women have better protections than Rabbinic women- they can initiate divorces! And if necessary, a court could issue a divorce order by itself. Fundamentalist can be a more accurate term, but still implies something false- Karaites did not arise in reaction to modernism, secularism, liberalism, etc. Most religious scholars will tell you fundamentalism is a modern phenomenon. Karaites are a decidedly, very old community. Further, "fundamentalist", in most cases, is being used as a pejorative for Karaites, not intended as an accurate description. People who don't use eithef of these terms also like to use the word "extremist".

#cipher talk #There are definitely problems inside of Karaite Judaism because every group has problems but the utter lack of curiosity #And self assuredness that a community which has lasted for at least 1300 years and possibly more must be terrible and such entirely #There have been dozens of Jewish sects including ones that existed around the time Karaites start popping up in the historical record #None of them have lasted as long as the Karaites (usually because they were messianic sects and not in the modern sense #In the sense that their leaders claimed to be the Messiah or prophets and often promised to create an independent Jewish state #Or something else similar) #If Karaites were as horrible as how people talk about them people would just do something different like what happened with the other sects #It's a very annoying and kind of despicable attitude whenever I see a Hewish person say this about another culture of Jews #I've seen people say it about Sephardic culture as well as Karaites- you're dead roll over and assimilate to my thing

[trekkele]

Hey I don't know star wars but I have a question about the clones/storm troopers (? are they the same in any way???) And the mandolorians.

#its about Judaism lmao #because listen. I am a little percent certain that the clones are clonws of a mandolorian right #and if you want to map the mandos onto the Jewish diasporic experience #what with their traditions and sects and fracturing yes #then one guy sort of giving tacit permission to use himself as a starting point #and the result of that permission being an overwhelming force with little attachment to Manda (?) but a similar aesthetic and a being used #for assimilation of other cultures #you see where I'm going yes. someone tell me they see this. #I have never seen a star war #(one. i have seen a single star war. it is episode 4)

[autismmydearwatson]

BTW Jews will always know more about their own scriptures than any "intellectual" antitheist ever will. A Buddhist will always know more about Buddha than any antitheist ever will. A Hindu will always know their own gods better than any antitheist ever will. A Muslim especially will always know more about Islam than any outsider. It's not for outsiders to judge another's religion, culture, or beliefs. You are not superior simply because you're non-religious

#as a Christian i wouldnt go so far as to claim other Christians know a lot about their own religion.... #but fuck antitheists yall are so fucking antisemitic #fuck antitheists #religion #judaism #and please for the LITERAL LOVE OF GOD #STOP APROPPRIATING RELIGIONS #STOP CELEBRATING JEWISH HOLIDAYS WITHOUT JEWISH CONSENT #STOP APROPPRIATING HINDU AND INDIAN FASHIONS #STOP TRYING TO 'SAVE' A HIJABI #and STOP WEARING CROSSES OR ROSARIES #im not a Christian who uses rosaries or even puts that much holiness in the cross #but the cross IS a holy symbol for most sects. stop making it aesthetic if you dont believe in the cross #islam #hinduism #buddhism #yeah i guess ill tag this as #gentileposting

[magz]

(altenative "Invidious" video link)

Video: "What You Need To Know About P-A-L-E-S-T-I-N-E (plus resources)" by Hakim.

(with just auto-generated English caption, sadly)

The video partly censored because of Youtube.

Recommended Books & Resource:

"Ten Myths About Palestine" by Ilan Pappe

"The Hundred Years' War On Palestine: A history of Settler Colonial Conquest and Resistance" by Rashid Khalidi

"The Ethnic Cleansing Of Palestine" by Ilan Pappe

"A Strategy For The Liberation Of Palestine" PLFP

"Orientalism: Western Conception Of The Orient" by Edward W. Said

decolonizepalestine.com

"Ten films to watch about the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict" by Al Jazeera

"The Land Speaks Arabic" - A film by Maryse Gargour

Charity: UNRWA, PCRF, Islamic Relief, Red Crescent

These have been recommend before, but the video also have summary explanation and why should read each book.

Obligatory Disclaimer: This not mean each book free of issue or easy read, nor that should absorb everything uncritically - but that information it provide helpful. We must analyze, be aware of bias present in all material (not exclusive of topic), and learn and help each other do so. Am also not fully agree with some statements in video n am cognizant that (as am say in post tags).

#for example: of bias - al jazeera have bias against other islam sect. edward said thought 'jewish = zionist' (untrue) like zionists told. #charity restricted entry. + U.N. unhelpful with distribution n Palestinians were reclaim what rightfully their reliefs from U.N. storage. #PLFP something something. but again - we must not turn our eye away from everything either. - tho will share other stuff later. #am just not gonna pretend everything perfect in all reading materials of all topics ever either (unrealistic) #text post #o post #palestine #sij #Youtube

[bisexualamy]

i'm turning off reblogs on that thread and deleting all the posts. the basic idea i was trying to express went off in so many directions that are beyond the scope of the OP. i am clearly using different definitions than some of the repliers and i don't want to go back and forth on my blog all day over it. i should stick to my rule that discussions requiring this much nuance are only for in person discussion because so much of what i mean is lost without tone of voice.

#no hate at all to the repliers in the thread no ill will etc #the concept of jewish ethnicity is a really delicate subject informed by your cultural background and what sect you were raised in #clearly the torah study i did growing up differs from others (obviously) and the way i choose to interact with gentiles differs too #these are topics i don't want to discuss online and i shouldn't have responded to anything regarding ethnicity and cultural exchange #bc it was unrelated to my OP #ren speaks

[blackwldcw]

@headlessbutnothopeless asked: ♚ ((Mentioned it in DMs, but I really like the short drabbles of RP events - do you write/post fanfiction at all?))

{Hey! Thank you for sending one of these in <3 I very much enjoy your blog, too, based on what I’ve seen.

And I used to. Unfortunately, not anymore. I’ve been working on a novel unaffiliated with any fandom in my free time, as well as this blog.}

#headlessbutnothopeless #{ out of character } #hint: my novel is about a bi poc shape shifting dragon with roots to ancient Babylon #most of the characters are poc and queer as well #main human protag is a trans man and his boyfriend is Jewish #and he finds dragon lady’s diary in a secret sect of hunters underneath an Oxford library #I could rant about it for hours lol #first draft is 375 pages so far #but I need more beta readers #before I consider submitting it to a publisher

[vamptastic]

so many of the things that were said to me in elementary school wrt judaism were things i then realized years later were straight up centuries old antisemitic rhetoric. like i would think the kid telling me i was lying because real jews have red hair was just being weird and then read that ashkenazi jews in europe used to have a larger amount of redheads bc of our small population and so red hair became a way to signify that somebody was jewish in literature. or some kid would tell me to go back to israel and id go wtf ive never even been there my family came here in 1880 and then i read about the double loyalty trope. or a kid would tell me jews have horns and i go haha so silly no we don't and go home and have my parents tell me people genuinely believe we are devils (and also explain to me what satan and hell are, because i had never heard of that concept being, yk, jewish). it's so fucking bizarre to me that a bunch of 8 year olds knew this shit? like it's so disturbing that they were being told this by their parents or at church. and then i get older and it happens way less but i still have to wonder if the people around them believe that or if they still do but now they know they can't say that to me without backlash.

#like ive been to one church service ever (catholic wedding) i really only know about catholicism #but i grew up in a really heavily evangelical and fundamentalist town. like a rlly different brand of christianity #idk i got some insight from friends and it was all sort of horrifying wrt judaism (and also gay people) #across like many different sects and churches. like do they just straight up tell u wrong shit about judaism in church #is that the norm? cos the little exposure ive had to christianity via synogauge was cool #but those were churches that were... working with a jewish temple on projects. and thus more normal than average #genuinely just mystified and concerned over the idea that wildly wrong info about judaism is the standard to tell to children #everything ive heard from people trying to convert me is like Huh. that's just Not True.

[mxlxdroit]

i'm amused but also a bit put off by how many goyim on that poll think jesus is a prophet in judaism. that's islam you're thinking of! very different!

#chris talks #christianity begins as a jewish sect and tranforms into its own religion as it becomes majority gentile and splits off #so it's reliant on judaism for its existence #but that reliance is not reciprocal!

[ramshacklefey]

It's amazing to me just how good the Mormon church has been at hiding just how bad they really are from public view. Even the shit that gets spread around is the relatively harmless bullshit. They had a crazy prophet with magic glasses. They believe in god-mandated polygyny. They think everyone who is good enough will get their very own planet after the world ends. They wear magic underpants. Mormon men are all paladins.

Here's one of the ones you hear less often:

See, like many other Christian sects, the Mormons really do believe that the existence of Christ obviates the existence of Judaism. Judaism was just a placeholder until the "real" church could be established by Jesus.

And the Mormons in particular believe, dead ass, that the entire inheritance of Israel has been given to them, because the Jews failed to recognize the Messiah when he was on Earth. They really do. They have this whole system where people are given a "divine revelation" about which of the Tribes of Israel they're a member of (don't worry, they decided that most people belong to the two tribes that are willing to "adopt" people. Only the most specialest boys and girls are members of the original ten).

Let's sum up so far. The Mormons believe that they are the people of Israel, chosen and protected by God. If Jews want to get back in on that party, they can always repent and convert to Mormonism, the one true church to which God gave all the rights and blessings that were originally bestowed on Abraham's house.

But it doesn't stop there!

The Mormons also believe, in all seriousness, that all Indigenous peoples of the Americas are descended from a small group of Jewish people who left just before the fall of Jerusalem (~600 bc iirc). Their entire weird-ass extra bible is a chronicle of those people's history in [unspecific part of America]. At the very beginning of the book, two brothers in the original family turn away from god, so they and all their descendants are cursed with dark skin, so that the good Nephites (who remain "white and delightsome") will always be able to tell themselves apart from the wicked Lamanites.

So, you've got supposedly Jewish people running around the Americas. And the "good" ones are white, and the "bad" ones are brown. Then, ofc, Jesus comes to visit them (I guess supposedly that's part of what he was doing during his dirt nap? Or possibly after he left again, it's not clear), and they all convert to Christianity, which they think is clearly the natural evolution of Judaism. Well, at the end of the book, all of them become wicked, in a kind of weird pseudo-apocalyptic series of events. They are all cursed with dark skin, until such time as they repent for their ancestors sins and return to the gospel.

But of course, Mormons being the good and kind people they are, they want everyone to receive the blessings of God and be brought into the houses of Israel etc etc. And it isn't the fault of those poor little Indigenous children that their distant ancestors turned away from God and became wicked.

So what's the natural answer? Well, Mormons are real big on missionary work, as we all know. But apparently that wasn't enough in this case.

Because the Mormon church has been one of the big players in abducting as many Indigenous children as possible, in order to indoctrinate them into being good Mormons, so that they can turn white again and be blessed. My mother remembers hearing talks about this in the 70s and 80s. The church literally had a "Lamanite Adoption Program," where families in the church were encouraged to get as many Indigenous children as possible away from their families and not let them be reunited until they were fully assimilated and ready to go back and proselytize about how wonderful the church is.

The church leadership literally talked about how wonderful it was to see these children becoming whiter. Actually whiter. Like, saying that when they finally saw them with their families again, it was beautiful how much paler they were.

I'm pretty sure this program has been officially ended, but it doesn't take a genius to speculate about who might be behind the curtains on the movement in the western US to gut the ICWA....

So yeah. Next time someone tries to tell you that the Mormons are just harmless weirdos, please remember that they're an antisemitic cult that advocates for the forced assimilation of Indigenous children to help them escape the cursed brown skin of their ancestors.

#cw mormonism #mormons #exmo #and this is still barely scratching the surface of how fucked up that organization is

[kyliaquilor]

I mean, if Egyptian Polytheism was the majority, it too would be shaping public policy just like Christianity, if proper safeguards against church interference in the state weren’t a thing.

#Minority religions are perfectly capable of being oppressive in their own spaces #some extremly orthodox jewish sects for instance #minority christian faiths in the middle east #FUCKING HINDU NATIONALISM #even buddhism extremism exists of a sort #Anti-Religion #In Which Kylia Responds Without Responding