#jonsa parallels

[reginarubie]

When HotD got out everyone was like Oh, Daemyra is the new, improved Jonerys with good storyline

And I didn’t give it too much attention, you know I stay mostly in my line and don’t mess around with shit that doesn’t interest me (like Jonerys) but now that I think of it…

I’ll do you all one better (and maybe I am late at the party as always, because I can’t be the only one noticing this)

Jonsa is the reversed, evolved, less entitled (both Jon and Sansa start as spoiled characters but have their entitlement beaten out of them pretty soon, and we love them for it), more duty-oriented (thank you Ned) Daemyra.

I mean all signs point in that direction and I see you 👀 GRRM pushing the Jonsa agenda further on!

And now I’ll tell you what sources I have to base my logic on (and maybe I am wrong ey, but I think it fits Jonsa more, as of now, though Martin could totally disprove me going the other way confronted to the way the show concluded knowing his ending).

So, at the beginning of the story, Robb becomes king in the North by popular demand.

In the first episode Viserys becomes heir (and later king) by popular demand.

Both Robb and Viserys inherit their position by their much beloved predecessor (Jaehaerys and Ned) and both are ‘named/appointed’ by a conclave of lords/ladies in the Riverlands ffs.

Both Viserys and Robb end up planting, with their own politics, the seeds of the shit storm that almost threatens to destroy their family after their death.

Robb marries Jeyne (Talisa in the show) instead of the Frey betrothed thus snubbing the Freys and going back on his word. He dies without an heir leaving the North in shambles when he had been a step from winning the war.

Viserys names Rhaenyra heir and then — instead of marrying the Velaryon girl — marries Alicent and has more children knowing that if they were male it could cause disrupt with the line of succession.

Both are idolised after their death — Viserys taking the name of The Peaceful thanks to the ruling and politics of his Queen and council and Robb by being sanctified by his siblings and lords even tho he was the one causing most of the problems who caused his death and almost destroyed the North — both Viserys and Robb loose their heirs.

Viserys loses his sons by Aemma

Robb dies childless and his heirs (Bran, Rickon, Sansa and Arya) are to his knowledge lost (Bran and Rickon presumed killed, Arya presumed dead and Sansa married to a Lannister).

The heir that remains them, their younger brother/sister (Daemon and Sansa) is not considered worthy of inheriting after them — Daemon for his character and Sansa because she has been married to a Lannister — so both do the same thing, they disinherit their lawful and rightful heir (yes Bran and Rickon and Arya are alive but Robb doesn’t know it; Viserys will have Aegon, Aemond, Daeron and Helaena but he doesn’t know nor care) to name another as heir someone who, by law, should pass after the rightful heir.

It seems to me like some pretty big parallels here.

Daemon = Sansa

Daemon and Sansa are the second born children of a couple who love each other and apparently their mother’ fav.

And you know what’s sick? Daemon and Sansa both supported their brother’ right to any extent.

Daemon readied men-at-arms and sworn swords to defend Viserys’ claim when people rumoured Corlys wanted to assemble a fleet to defend Laenor’ right after Rhaenys.

Sansa bled for the northern independence when in KL and then later — and this is only show for now — Sansa gathered the northern army and put KL under siege to defend her brother. Sansa is the one who decided to rally the lords of the North behind House Stark once again (Jon was done fighting) and she was the one to offer Bran the role of Lord of WF when he returned from Beyond the Wall.

Despite being loyal to their family in their own way, both Daemon and Sansa are disinherited by their king in favor of someone they love but that by law should have come after them.

By succession tradition and law the brother of a king becomes before the daughter of a king — unless women can inherit the throne which was not the case in Westeros at the time — so Daemon came before Rhaenyra in the line of succession, yet Viserys disinherited him to name Rhaenyra heir.

By law and tradition of succession Sansa as the trueborn eldest surviving daughter of Ned and Cat in the evenience of Robb dying without heirs (Bran and Rickon are both presumed dead) comes before Jon, the base born son of Ned Stark. (Jon himself says so “by law Winterfell belongs to my sister, Sansa”/“Winterfell belongs to my sister, Sansa”, even though Sansa is a Lannister, a murderess and apparently dissolved in thin air) yet Robb with his will disinherit Sansa to name Jon heir.

Everyone expected Daemon/Sansa to be angry at Jon/Rhaenyra because of it — Rhaenyra herself and the viewer when Jon was named KitN — instead what happened?

Daemon became Rhaenyra’ stauncher supporter and Sansa became Jon’s. Daemon supported Rhaenyra and Sansa supported Jon. When people expected Daemon to lash out when the terms of surrender were issued, he obeyed Rhaenyra order without issue; when the northern lords unsatisfied with Jon’ stay in Dragonstone offered the crown to Sansa, Sansa refused and defended Jon’s claim. All she did in s8 was to defend Jon’s claim to the North and the Realm.

And you know what else is incredible?

Daemon is suspected to have “caused” his first wife’ death and his second wife died in childbirth. Rhea Royce died after a fall from horseback — in the show Daemon kills her, but in the book she dies of the wounds later on, as the hit to the head might have caused her delayed death. Still Daemon is suspected to have caused it — the horse to unseat Rhea — and tried to inherit his wife’ keep.

Sansa “caused” her first betrothed, Joffrey’ death, by telling the truth to Olenna and Margaery which spurned them to have him killed at his own wedding feast. Sansa escapes and her first husband is almost killed for the crime — almost making her a widow.

Both Daemon and Sansa are more skilled than their counterpart in their competence. Daemon is the most skilled warrior of his time, Sansa has learned politics from the best and worst in it.

Daemon finds himself at odds with his brother with the war of the stepstones and Sansa finds herself at odds with her brother whilst in KL as she has to navigate and survive the southern court and Joffrey.

Yet both return to their brother in the end, Sansa by remaining true to her Stark identity (“I am not your daughter, I am the Lord Eddard and lady Catelyn’s daughter. The blood of Winterfell”/ “what if it is truth he wants and justice for his lady?”) and Daemon by winning and giving the crown to his brother.

Sansa wins the battle of bastards through her alliance with the Knights of the Vale and lets her brother take the crown.

Sansa and Daemon are both described as beautiful, charming and dashing. But Daemon is mercurial and Sansa is called a witch for her apparent part in Joffrey’ death.

Both Daemon and Sansa are advisors in their capacity to their brother/king though they have to clamor to be recognised any degree of validity. Sansa has to fight to gain the right to be Jon’s advisor even if he chooses Davos as chief advisor as Viserys chose Otto.

Daemon’s children are the one who inherit the Iron throne after the DotD. Sansa’s children will inherit WF and the North after asoiaf is done.

Jon = Rhaenyra

Jon and Rhaenyra are the odd ones out of this.

Rhaenyra knew her place, she prayed for a brother to inherit the Iron throne just like Jon would have died to defend Robb or any of his siblings (and in the book he does die for fakeArya). But both are ambitious.

Rhaenyra accepts she will be queen and makes of it her identity; Jon dreamed of become Lord of Winterfell before he knew what that entailed.

Both Rhaenyra and Jon expect that their orders — despite their intentions — will be followed, even when they go against hundreds of years of tradition. Rhaenyra as Queen and Jon believes the NW will follow to war against the Boltons when the NW has been neutral for thousand of years. And both pay the ultimate price for it. Death.

Jon is killed by his sworn brothers, Rhaenyra is killed by her brother’s dragon.

Both Rhaenyra and Jon have the temper of their family but they control it for the most part. It takes really big things for it to be spiked. Luke’s death for example.

Both Rhaenyra and Jon are intertwined with fake relationships. Both cause the death of their first lover/spouse.

Rhaenyra marries Laenor to keep the Velaryon in her corner, Laenor who is a gay man — in the book she is much less understanding of it btw — and their relationship is fake and her children aren’t his. In the show she loves him platonically, though I don’t remember that being the case in the book. In the end, whether his death is faked or not, Rhaenyra causes that. Either by having him killed — as they say in the book — or by having him fake his death to marry Daemon to strengthen her claim.

Jon has a “fake” relationship with Ygritte (you know what I think of her in the book) to make sure his undercover mission is accomplished. In the end Jon’ mission is accomplished and even though he “fell in love with her” he still left her and the war between them ended up claiming her life.

After the death of the heir — Balon and Bran and Rickon — Rhaenyra and Jon are both raised to the role of heir by their king with a decree that disinherited/snubbed the previous law-ful heir (Sansa/Daemon).

At the same time, Viserys/Robb have other heirs. Viserys marries and has sons (who have sons), Rickon and Bran are both alive though presumed dead who could end up threatening Jon’s claim once the will becomes active after Jon’ return from the dead.

They have sexual tension with the snubbed heir and value them as advisors though they don’t always agree with their politics.

Jon feels that Sansa’ opinion demeans him before the Lords — tho he names her regent — and Rhaenyra distrust Daemon not to declare war without her say-so.

And yet both Jon and Rhaenyra gain the ripe of Sansa and Daemon’ loyalty.

Even if Jon and Sansa don’t always see eye to eye, Sansa loyalty to Jon is what gets him out of KL alive, without Daemon’ skills as warrior Rhaenyra’ war would have ended long before it started.

Sansa and Daemon both are against Jon and Rhaenyra to surrender their crown, and work to keep the other half in their role.

And you know what? There’s more.

Gifts giving — belonging to a House

Daemon and Sansa both have something that defines their belonging to House Stark.

Sansa’s wolf-bit and Daemon’ sword — which, do I have to go down the sexual metaphor about Sansa’ bosom and Daemon’ sword? — and both whilst speaking of heirs/reading to war to defend the claim to the crown gift the other half something that signifies their belonging to the House as well.

Rhaenyra’ necklace and Jon’s cloak. Both items which Rhaenyra and Jon puts on and basically keeps on for ever — like it was a fucking joke how long Jon kept the cloak on even on Dragonstone —also Rhaenyra necklace resembles a chain (chain of command) and same with Jon’s cloak stripes (which resemble a chain of command).

Rhaenyra confronts Daemon about her being named heir — and perhaps we’ll have something similar in the books for Jon and Sansa. Tho we have something akin to that when Arya confronts Sansa about Jon having the crown and Sansa liking the attention.

Yet both Sansa and Daemon stand strong in their loyalty to Jon above anyone else.

Protecting — destroying some of the earliest and greatest threats the other claim

Vaemond is one of the earliest threats to Rhaenyra rule, just as we know LF has been playing against Jon all along, yet both Sansa and Daemon defend the other half by killing the offender.

Arya and Bran serve as the Viserys in the comparison, because it’s Sansa who passes the sentence (as Arya herself points out) the same way as Daemon is the one who decided to kill Vaemond instead of letting Viserys order of having his tongue removed to be carried out.

Thus removing the earliest threat to the other one’.

Also, both Daemon and Sansa destroyed indirectly or directly another threat to Jon and Rhaenyra by killing Aemond and Daenerys who had the attitude (both of them) of destroying the Realm to take the Iron throne if needed. Aemond would not have taken Aegon’ claim from him but if Aegon had died of his wounds before Rhaenyra was executed, with Maelor and Jaehaerys dead Aemond stood the greatest threat to Rhaenyra. Daemon killed Aemond and Sansa plotted to have the truth about Daenerys uncovered and indirectly causing her death through Jon.

Supporting the other as ruler

Daemon becomes Rhaenyra supporter just as Sansa becomes Jon’s. Even as snubbed heirs they love the new heir and when the time comes they are there, by their side, defending them.

Also, never forget that Sansa/Daemon are always on the side of the consort when it comes to Jon/Rhaenyra whilst that is not true for other characters, who are always afforded place of importance, but not that of the consort.

When Corlys comments on Viserys lack of action in the Stepstones Daemon replies that he can speak of his brother how he well wishes but that is not the truth for others. Similarly Sansa defends Jon (“he’s our king, he’s doing what he thinks best”) even tho she shares the lords preoccupations.

Despite not always seeing eye to eye with Daemon, he is a trusted advisor to Rhaenyra who listens to him. In the same way, despite feeling the need of Sansa’ validation, Sansa is his trusted advisor to the point Jon entrusts the whole of the North to her.

So, yeah, I raise you the Daemyra is the Targaryen version of Jonsa, with Daemon and Rhaenyra being worse people than Jon and Sansa are combined. By ey, there’s a dark streak to the Starks not to be underestimated.

#Jonsa #Jonsa agenda #Jonsa fam #Jonsa parallels #daemon and Rhaenyra as the Targaryen version of Jon and Sansa #Jonsa vs Daemyra #reverse Daemon and Rhaenyra #daemon = Sansa #Rhaenyra = Jon #I mean it’s right there #I cannot be the only one to see this #Jonxsansa #Daemyra is serving Jonsa vibes #I mean… Jon killed his “lover” for Sansa (we know D was threatening Sansa) just like Rhaenyra killed/had killed her lover to be with Daemon #I mean Daemon used his skills to keep Rhaenyra on the throne and Sansa used her skill to keep Jon alive and safe #If that ain’t peak Jonsa vibe I don’t know what they’re supposed to be doing #And if I am right then Sansa’ children should be Jon’s — like Daemon’ sons who inherited the throne were with Rhaenyra

[estherruth-jonsatrash]

Sansa making Alayne an "older woman" at fourteen 🤝Jon feeling "fifteen again" at sixteen

#my poor babies had to grow up too fast #jonsa parallels

[thewindsofwolves]

Jon Snow & Sansa Stark Book Parallels & Mentions 1/∞ : Jealousy about Joffrey

His half sisters escorted the royal princes. Arya was paired with plump young Tommen, whose white-blond hair was longer than hers. Sansa, two years older, drew the crown prince, Joffrey Baratheon. He was twelve, younger than Jon or Robb, but taller than either, to Jon's vast dismay. Prince Joffrey had his sister's hair and his mother's deep green eyes. A thick tangle of blond curls dripped down past his golden choker and high velvet collar. Sansa looked radiant as she walked beside him, but Jon did not like Joffrey's pouty lips or the bored, disdainful way he looked at Winterfell's Great Hall.  A Game Of Thrones, Jon I

"Jon says he looks like a girl," Arya said.Sansa sighed as she stitched. "Poor Jon," she said. "He gets jealous because he's a bastard."  A Game Of Thrones, Arya I

#jonsa #jon x sansa #actuallyjonsa #jon snow #Sansa Stark #house stark #book!jonsa #jonsa parallels #jonsa book parallels serie #my posts #gifs/edits by me #got #game of thrones #gotedits #asoiaf #asoiaf quotes #asoiafedits #a song of ice and fire

[what-do-1000-swords-look-like]

More hostage!Sansa and hostage!Jon parallels (and more Robb & Sansa parallels):

1x10:

Joffrey: "You look quite nice."

Sansa: "Thank you, my lord."

Joffrey: "Your Grace. I am king now."

7x03:

Dany: "You told me you liked this man."

Tyrion: "I do."

Dany: "In the time since he's met me, he's refused to call me Queen, he's refused to bow, and now he's calling me a child."

8x01:

Jon: "It's cold up here for a Southern girl."

Dany: "So keep your queen warm."

...

2x01:

Sansa: "My father was a traitor. My mother and brother are traitors, too. I am loyal to my beloved Joffrey."

Tyrion: "Of course you are."

8x05:

Varys: "We both know what she's about to do."

Jon: "That's her decision to make. She is our Queen."

8x06:

Jon: "She's everyone's queen now."

Tyrion: "Do you think I'm the last man she'll execute? Who is more dangerous than the rightful heir to the Iron Throne?"

Jon: "That's her decision. She is the queen."

...

Tyrion: "And your sisters? Do you see them bending the knee?"

Jon: "My sisters will be loyal to the throne."

...

1x08:

Sansa: "I won't hatch anything."

Robb receives Sansa's letter:

Robb: "Treason? Sansa wrote this?"

Maester Luwin: "It's your sister's hand but it's the Queen's words. You're summoned to King's Landing to swear fealty to the new King."

Robb: "Joffrey puts my father in chains and now he wants his ass kissed?"

Luwin: "It is a royal command, my Lord. If you should refuse to obey..."

Robb: "I won't refuse. His Grace summons me to King's Landing then I'll go to King's Landing. But not alone. Call the banners."

Luwin: "All of them?"

Robb: "They all have sworn to defend my father, have they not? I will see what their words are worth."

Sansa receives Dany and Co & gets Jon up to speed:

Sansa: "As soon as we heard about the Wall, I called all our banners to retreat to Winterfell." (the Wall fell due to undead!Viserion, Dany's dragon, which they make sure to remind the audience in this scene for reasons)

8x05:

Jon: "I don't want it and that's what I told him." "You will always be my queen."

7x06:

Arya: "Robb, I write to you today with heavy heart. Father has been charged with treason. He conspired with Robert's brothers against my beloved Joffrey and tried to steal his throne. I beg you, come to King's Landing, swear fealty to King Joffrey, and prevent any strife between the great Houses Lannister and Stark."

Sansa: "They forced me to do it."

Arya: "Did they? With a knife at your throat?"

Sansa: "You don't know what it was like." "They told me it was the only way to save Father."

7x07:

Littlefinger: "It's not easy for a raven to fly in these storms. Perhaps Jon tried to send word earlier." "I can't believe he'd surrender the Northern crown without consulting you."

Sansa: "This is his writing, his signature. He pledged to fight for Daenerys Targaryen. He's bent the knee."

Jon was literally in Sansa's position from season 1. The only difference is that Sansa came for him in 8x06, and Jon was able to make the decision to break out of this hostage situation/protect Sansa while Sansa wasn't able to completely break out of hers & needed help to do so (at the Purple Wedding).

#jonsa #jon x sansa #jonsa parallels #jon and sansa #got #game of thrones #jonsa meta #i guess? #metaposts #gotposts #jonsaposts #robb and sansa parallels #Youtube

[esther-dot]

That was interesting post about Jonsa similarities being prophecied to take down the evil queens. One thing can be added about Sansa being prophecied to slay the giant in the 'snow castle'. So the Jonsa are prophecied to take down their evil uncle(LF) and aunt(Dany) and are connected to ice(Wall) and snow(WF). Thoughts?

I love @thewindsofwolves parallel series and that one in particular really caught my attention!

Connecting the slaying the giant prophecy with the YMBQ prophecy is a fun reading because Sansa’s role in Joffrey’s death (taking what Cersei holds dear) is slapped up against the idea of her killing LF:

"I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief," the dwarf woman was saying. "I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow." (ASOS, Arya VIII)

The reading of Sansa being the YMBQ is compelling to me, especially since LF and Cersei occupy evil father/evil stepmother roles for Sansa. Cersei had those quintessential mother/daughter moments with her (instead of Sansa’s own mother getting to talk to her about her first period, having children, talking to her just before her wedding…), and Littlefinger poses as her father/has her pretend to be his daughter, so both prophecies being about their psuedo daughter is fun. In fact, Ned made serious miscalculations with LF and with Cersei, leading to disaster for his family, Sansa in particular who has been a captive of both, so it’s particularly rewarding for her to be the one these prophecies are about.

As for connecting it to Jon potentially taking out Dany, lots of people have pointed out Cersei and Dany parallels, I think I have a post about that lost in drafts somewhere, and Martin even mentioned intentionally creating parallels there, so the fact that they each have a prophecy about their downfall and for it to be about a Stark (Sansa and Jon)...I like it!

A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . .(ACOK, Daenerys IV)

Everyone knows this is an allusion to Jon, some take it as a positive/romance thing, we take it as part of her three treasons, but it could very easily be both. Dany, like LF, could take a sexual interest in the child of a person they say they could have married. Obviously, LF's obsession with Cat transferring to Sansa takes up a lot of space, Dany's mention of marrying Rhaegar is only done in passing, but it was an odd thing to include and it does feel a little matchy-matchy. 👀

You need to open your inbox, you have a talent for finding these connections, and I should be the one sending asks about them to you!

#jonsa #jonsa parallels #anti daenerys #anti jonerys #ymbq #dot chat

[atopvisenyashill]

there’s a few potential sansa romantic endgames that i think have some textual basis and i think all of them come with a lot of issues wrt sansa being able to publically claim these relationships which is why i think sansa will say her children are “fathered by a wolf” because regardless of Who she’s with or even the legality of it, she’s going to be actively concealing their identity AND YET she needs to have children.

i think especially that even though arya’s love life is guaranteed to be less complicated, sansa will feel obligated to take this “burden” of ensuring their line onto herself; she wants arya to have the freedom to go where she pleases, be with who she pleases, and follow her passions and that is not easy to do if everyone is expecting you to come home and start popping out kids. I consider them a sort of reflection of ned and lyanna in this way in that sansa, second born and not meant to rule, uses her newfound power to let the wild, youngest girl (but not youngest child) in the family follow her passions wherever they may take her.

this is all kind of weird with the nixed time jump but considering that george has talked about writing stories from arya’s pov about her adventures, I think it’s going to be fairly important in story regardless of their ages that arya will attempt to offer to stay home and marry and have children as a way of helping to protect sansa’s very shaky claim on winterfell but that sansa encourages arya to do whatever she wants. to travel, to help shepherd the boatloads of refugees from the various wars to wherever they want to call home, to settle displaced northerners in other parts of westeros as well, to get involved in the lives of the people arya is helping and agree to help them liberate their own homes by using her skills (crucial here that arya is A leader but not the SOLE leader), or to go out into the woods and be a secret not-quite-an-outlaw (bc sansa isn’t outlawing anything that could hurt arya’s lil crusades, probably is helping bankroll arya) to bring justice to the smallfolk, like whatever it is arya wants to do with her life, the point is that she offers to give it up and sansa refuses to take the offer.

and then we have the idea that her kids are fathered by a wolf. not elizabeth-ing herself here exactly because she’s having children but never publicly acknowledging a father or a husband or even a lover.

i think the candidates most likely are jon snow and theon, with both brienne and podrick as like “i’m not saying he’s gonna do it but i am saying they make a lot of sense narratively” and aegon vi as a huge long shot but still undeniable contender. if briensa does go canon everyone owes me five bucks each tho. i think the options other people float are not just wildly unserious they also clearly don’t think sansa will be The Ruling Lady Of Winterfell, but some much more minor or less emotionally resonant title and i just do not vibe with that shit at all. harry the heir, sandor, sweetrobin, tyrion, littlefucker, like never mind sansa never once showing any real interest in these guys and NONE of these dudes being satisfied by the idea of being her secret husband, if sansa says to arya “yeah i’m marrying tyrion” arya is going “blink twice if you’re being held hostage and you need me to kill him” but it’s too late because jon snow is already unsheathing longclaw and bran is attacking with every raven in winterfell. it’s not fucking happening and imo it’s unserious to pretend like it could happen in canon. (and if it DOES happen in canon you will find me rocking up to george’s house in jersey and demanding to know why he’s so weird about teenage girls). i think margaery is a huge long shot here (and not just bc it would make them both canonically on screen gay) because i don’t think she’s gonna live to the ending, and jeyne poole is too traumatized at this point in time for me to feel confident in putting her in the same category as brienne and pod.

(theon’s trauma is WHY i think he’s still a contender - post reek theon is going to struggle a lot with figuring out where he’s supposed to be, who he’s supposed to be, and who he can trust as he puts himself back together, and that lends itself nicely to the idea of a secret husband/lover imo. once again, we are talking extreme trauma bonding here - that’s just the only way i see sansa’s romances going).

if you’re asking “who do you think arya is winding up with” it’s gendry. i don’t doubt that there were some plans for edric dayne, arya, and gendry but i think gendry was always going to be her great love here, that she’s always going to turn down the idea of marriage to him but gendry doesn’t care so long as they are still together. there’s a neon blinking sign over gendry’s head that says “endgame material” and i think it’s unserious to pretend it’s not there too!!

#again my conspiracy here is that he can’t do all the rhaegar/lyanna/robert/ned/ashara/cat paralleling he would like and it’s thrown him off #that’s my rant of the day aksjdj #getting on my soap box #theonsa #jonsa #briensa #jeynsa #what’s the pod sansa name i always forget #the sun and moon in endless chase

[joanna-lannister]

from "Jon is Jon. He’ll keep me safe. I trust him." to "I won’t ever let him touch you again. I’ll protect you, I promise." 😭😭

#i just realized this parallel #I WANNA SCREAM #marie talks to herself #jonsa #otp : i'll protect you

[agentrouka-blog]

Jon has two relatives who can sing and play harps. It will be interesting to see Sansa playing harp and singing a song in future which will make Jon overwhelmed. A positive contrast to Rhaegar and Lyanna.

It's well established that Jon is strongly affected by singing. He pays attention to it, regards lyrics and the quality of the singers' voices, considers it a persuasive tool, though there is no suggestion given that he has any musical abilities himself. Like his mother, he appreciates music as part of its audience. It's one of the few things that he genuinely likes about Ygritte (before she entraps him) and it mirrors Lyanna's sentimental reaction to Rhaegar singing at the feast at Harrenhal. Neither boded well for them.

The first thing Ygritte tells Jon is the story of a song: Bael the Bard and the Winter Rose, an elaborate hint by GRRM toward his true paternity.

GRRM could have left it at that. But the chapters frame Sansa's flowering and her conversation with Cersei about love.

I think it's very telling that this is the memory GRRM chose to give Jon as his strongest association with Sansa, a character who has moved past her disappointment with the world and still continues to find value and inspiration in the songs. Whose favorite song we have yet to hear.

Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself.  (ADWD, Jon XIII)

#jonsa #jon snow #sansa stark #singing #anti rhaegar targaryen #mother and son #parallels

[alaynasansa]

SnowStone Week 2023 : day three — Fairy Tale

#jon snow #sansa stark #jon x sansa #jonsa #peau d'âne #donkey skin #source: peau d'âne (1970) #source: donkey skin (1970) #source: a storm of swords #source: a feast for crows #source: a dance with dragons #source: game of thrones #asoiaf x donkey skin #kinda #asoiaf parallels #asoiaf edits #made by me #tw inc*st #tw sa #tw child abuse #snowstoneweek #jonsaweek2023

[fromtheseventhhell]

The day people stop comparing Aegon/Rhaenys/Visenya to Jon/Arya/Sansa is the day I'll know peace. People hate Daenerys (and house Targaryen by extension) but then always want to steal from her story to uplift their faves. It's past the point of being pathetic 🙄

#daenerys targaryen #pro daenerys targaryen #house targaryen #anti sansa stans #jonsas too #cause they're the main ones who do this #I hate how Arya and Jon are brought into this nonsense when the majority of the people saying this don't give a fuck about them #the obsession with hating Targaryens and then stealing from them is crazy #I get it they have more/cooler history but that doesn't mean your fave from a completely different house has anything to do with them #the targs are evil nasty colonizers...but also look at these parallels they have with my fave lol #this also applies to that specific brand of reddit Jon stan who acts like Jon is the /good/ targaryen and Dany is just a placeholder #I saw this most when the show was airing but I'm seeing a resurgence now #Just another case of people thinking something is evil when it's associated with Dany but good if it's with anybody else #saw someone say that the /direwolf has three heads/ give me a break #the same for people who do this with Stannis and Renly too!!!!!

[transdimensional-void]

alyn velaryon & jon snow anti-parallels

alyn velaryon

half-valyrian bastard with silver hair and purple eyes

father passed him off as his son's bastard

fought for rhaenyra's claim to the iron throne in the dance of the dragons

permanently scarred when he failed to ride a dragon

legitimized, placing him ahead of baela, rhaena, daemion, daeron, and the silent five in the succession of driftmark

older brother was initially the heir but killed in war

became lord of the tides

unsuccessful assassination attempt (one of the attackers joined the night's watch as punishment)

married one of the women (is she his cousin? his niece? who knows and who cares) whose claim he superseded, giving her his family name, when she ran to him for shelter, fleeing an unwanted marriage

unsanctioned marriage led to baela and him being seen as unfit heirs to her brother's throne

fathered bastards while married

house velaryon continued through his and baela's son

jon snow

half-valyrian bastard with brown hair and dark gray eyes

uncle passed him off as his own bastard

might be caught up in the dance of the dragons 2.0 (in the show, refused to press his claim to the iron throne)

permanently scarred by a skin-changed eagle (successfully rode a dragon in the show)

(allegedly) legitimized by robb/offered legitimization by stannis, potentially placing him ahead of sansa, arya, bran, and rickon (because they were presumed dead) in the succession of winterfell

older brother cousin was initially the heir but killed in war

refused to become lord of winterfell

successful assassination attempt by night's watchmen

[missing scene] one of the women (is she his cousin? is she his sister? uh oh, good thing we'll find out for sure) whose claim he refused to supersede, [missing scene] her family name, when she [ran to him for shelter, fleeing an unwanted marriage as foretold by the girl in grey prophecy?]

[missing scene]

swore to never father bastards

[missing scene]

hm, i dunno. i'll let y'all fill in the missing scenes for yourselves.

#jonsa #the missing scenes are jonsa #and house stark being carried on by their descendants probably all daughters heh heh #tried to find all of the parallels i could but i might have missed some #back on my prove that westerosi history is littered with jonsa foreshadowing bullsht

[reginarubie]

Gentle Mother ~ Font of mercy

[As always the art is not mine the pieces of art belong to their owner and if anyone is and doesn't want them used, let me know and I will take 'em down]

As sparked by this convo.

The theme of the Mother is a very profound one in the asoiaf world. And Martin shows us what the mother is supposed to be (mercy) and also the other side of the coin (vengeance). This theme is weaved intricately with the women of asoiaf.

"Mothers." The man made the word sound like a curse. "I think birthing does something to your minds. You are all mad."  — Bran II, AGOT

There are at least four big characters who embody — in different ways — the theme of the mother (Lysa and Lyanna as well as Elia will be honorable mentions at the end) and those are Catelyn, Cersei, Daenerys and Sansa. — and we'll see how the lyrics of the hymn are retold by these characters.

The point is, only one of these “mothers” actually embodies the Hymn of the Mother and the merciful mother. And that character is Sansa Stark.

Cersei Lannister ~ Mother of Lions, mother of madness — soothe the wrath

So, Cersei, of course, embodies the mother. Even the prophecy Maggy the Frogs gives her is focused not only on her role as queen, but as her role — and her failure — as mother. It is not a chance that Maggy comments on how “her children's crowns would be golden and golden their shrouds”.

This is supposed as much as to be warning as to be a statement and Cersei instead of taking it as a warning, actually becomes the propellent force which causes most of the prophecy coming true.

Her love for her children spurns her to kill Robert, when Ned warns her he will tell the king the truth about her children, and yet it's her ambition for them (and for herself — she does dream of herself sitting atop the IT above all other lords) that puts them in jeopardy in the first place.

Cersei is a destructive mother, she's framed as a mother who will do all to keep her children safe — going to the point she's ready to kill Tommen and herself to avoid they're taken by Stannis — her greatest accomplishment is being a mother and yet to her it's both a chain keeping her on a lesser step, and her greatest weakness.

Cersei has styled herself as a protector, and as her scene with Tywin tells us, there are no lengths Cersei would not go to keep her children safe. She thinks she alone can keep her children safe, and yet she's the reason her children are doomed.

And her children are her doom, too.

To begin with it's Cersei own actions which put Joffrey, Marcella and Tommen in jeopardy; the circumstances of their birth are Cersei's own doing; her ambition pertaining them the reason for their doom.

The fact that Cersei' ambition for her children is the IT means her children are in peril, especially since Cersei is not that much beloved. She takes their birthright for granted — even though they do not have one — and she feels she's far too superior to debase herself with making alliances. Even when her marriage to Loras could ensure the Tyrell's support beyond any doubt she's against it, and we know she's ready to anything to avoid it.

Cersei — as I've discussed in another meta — takes the metaphorical stones thrown at her (for her behavior) and builds a fortress behind which she's sure the fear of her shall keep her and her children safe.

But it is not so. Yes, in the books Myrcella and Tommen are still alive, but we know that will change soon. Myrcella has lost an ear and is very probably traumatized over the whole ordeal — she being pitted against her mother and brother — whilst Tommen is being torn and ripped apart between his “advisors” (Kevan against Cersei, Cersei against Margaery) when he is yet a child.

If Cersei had worked and played good with Kevan perhaps they could've found a way to protect Tommen better, instead Cersei is waging her own personal war against whoever tries to keep her pinned to the ground, to the point she becomes blind to the effects her choices might have on her son.

It is an undisputed theory — and a very believable one — that Cersei' behavior as Queen Mother (and now only regent) to Tommen will easily provoke the ire of the people of KL, possibly causing new riots and rebellions to spark in between the streets.

As Queen, Cersei should've been not only mother to her children, but mother to the people and most importantly to the nobles. She doesn't care. [And this will come bite her in the bum when the time comes]. During the siege on KL by Stannis, Cersei does her duty, by collecting all the ladies of the court, and keep them with her, but that's as far as she goes (beyond terrorizing Sansa, who she is supposed — and does see in her own twisted way — to be mother of, as at this point Sansa is still betrothed to Joffrey), and when the things get really difficult she abandons the ladies in her charge to their fate to “choose hers”.

Children learn by example, and the example they have received is that of an absent father who couldn't care less about them, and a self-entitled mother so ambitious (but lacking real political wit) to want to put her bastards on the Iron throne. And whilst Tommen and Myrcella are too little to show it, Joffrey is the product of this kind of education and his own brand of cruelty and madness.

Cersei fancies herself as the matriarch of House Lannister, much like her father was Head of House Lannister — and for all of Tywin's cunning, his legacy is nothing but a mirror for larks, a lie he tells himself and the realm, a lie that died with him — but as Jaime considers she's neither as cunning neither as capable of Tywin, and she's not as calm. She's like wildfire, and wildfire can kill also its wielder.

In the books Cersei is becoming more and more paranoid and she's taking matters in her own hand — like disposing of Kevan and burning the Tower of the Hand in wildfire — and she feels a twisted, cruel pleasure at being in control. Which makes her dangerous not only for herself but for her children too.

And, that, makes of her a destructive mother. Her wrath makes of her the doom of her children.

“I promise you, no matter where you flee, Robert's wrath will follow you, to the back of beyond if need be." The queen stood. "And what of my wrath, Lord Stark?" she asked softly.  — Eddard XIII, AGOT

Catelyn Stark/Lady Stoneheart ~ Mother of wolves, mother of death — font of mercy

Catelyn is an extremely particular example of mother. She's as fierce as Cersei when it comes to her children — mama wolf caught a valyrian steel knife bare-handed to defend her comatose son — and she's much more calm when she offers advice.

Whereas Cersei looses all power when Joffrey becomes king, a son who up to a point despise her for her weakness too, Catelyn is another thing for Robb. Both mothers have differences with their king-sons but Cersei' steems of her attempt to control Joffrey, whilst Catelyn's steems of her being first a mother and secondly the mother of a king.

She releases Jaime, but she doesn't do it to try and control her son, she does it to try and save her daughters. She gets relegated for it by her son, and her advice is often ignored by Robb after she realizes Jaime; and yet when the moment comes Catelyn dies convinced all her children are either dead (presumed so, Rickon, Brandon and Arya or surely so, Robb) or prisoners (Sansa).

Same as Cersei though, I must point out, Catelyn too is still young and there is talk of her new marriage to strengthen Robb; Theon is considered (which is foil to the Loras/Cersei's betrothal) though in the end another man, more of an age to Catelyn and whom she finds handsome, is chosen for her. Though she never reaches him, as she dies before she can. So, when Beric Dondarrion gives her “the kiss of life” — which, if you think of it, is not by chance that is called such, as mothers give life to their children — Catelyn rises against from death and she rises the vengeful, destructive mother who is hunting down and killing all those she thinks are guilty, one way or another, of the death of her children.

The kiss of life for Catelyn Stark was a curse, just as Maggy's prophecy was a curse for Cersei. Lady Stoneheart is the Mother without mercy, the mother who shows no mercy because she has none in her heart, but for vengeance. The mother whose only purpose is that of avenging her children.

"M'lady." The wine was making her head spin. It was hard to think. "Stoneheart. Is that who you mean?" Lord Randyll had spoken of her, back at Maidenpool. "Lady Stoneheart." "Some call her that. Some call her other things. The Silent Sister. Mother Merciless. The Hangwoman." — Brienne VIII, AFFC

Daenerys Targaryen ~ Mhysa, Mother of Dragons, Mother of monsters — tame the fury

Daenerys is such a tragic character and as @esther-dot has said in her own reply to the ask about Daenerys as a foil to the Virgin Mary, she is the Mother of several, the mother of dragons and Mhysa and yet she does not embody the traits of the mother (and the Virgin Mary, in the details, as those are compassion and mercy and grief).

Daenerys is thirteen when she gets pregnant, so she's extremely young when she miscarries her son and becomes barren. I have explained in several posts and metas how I think things went pertaining Rhaego's sacrifice and the birth of the dragons as Daenerys embracing her inner valyrian and her inner dragon (this serie).

The flames of Drogo's pyre burn away Daenerys' character as mother, and I truly believe that Martin giving her so many titles hinging on the figure of the Mother is meant to showcase how much, with each title she gains, she looses a part of the mother's thematic traits.

Daenerys herself, in her grief and fury, asks herself if she truly had not known the price for the blood magic the maegi did to save Drogo.

As highlighted by the original convo, Daenerys steels herself to not cry, to not show compassion, and to not give into mercy. She becomes the dragon each choice more.

Even though the show framed Daenerys as a merciful ruler who decided her crusade was to free the slaves, that is not the same in the books, as there lacks a scene in which Daenerys formally frees the Unsullied (as her speech during the taking of Astapor shows her telling them they are bought and paid for, that they are hers, to then make the alliteration of freedom/dracarys and you're the dragon's now all the while holding the whip). What she gathers during her campaign east is:

A reputation (Slavers Bay) — as she herself says to Jorah and Barrister, she knows what Aegon proved during his conquest, and that she has a few things she means to prove herself. It's a show of power. (Remember Aegon's formative years were spent with Balerion in the east). Troops (Astapor) — the Unsullied in Astapor, the second sons in Meereen and later the Dothraki (though how that will happen in the book remains to be seen, and how ‘inclusive of all dothraki’ that will actually be as opposed to the show) plus the other companies that compose her new army. A following/labour force (Yunkai) — as she herself thinks as she goes parlay with the masters in Astapor, she feels her following is insignificant and so is she by extention. Taking in her procession around the east the freed slaves of Yunkai gives her that, labour force (this happens in Meereen too) as well as a following which is not insignificant anymore, which makes her no longer insignificant as she felt when she was, for example, in Qart and she wasn't offered poison. Riches to fund her campaign west (Meereen)— despite staying in Meereen to rule, what Daenerys does is not making the best choice for the city, but the best choice to fill her coffers to fund her campaign west of the Narrow Sea. It was explained by better meta-writers than me, how Daenerys completely ignores the commercial importance of some goods, to chose instead coin and precious metals and gems and goods that will serve the purpose of funding her campaign west. Not only that, she reinstates slavery by taking the very same percentage from the selling that the slavers did, all because wars have costs and they're won as much with gold as they are by swords (her words, not mine — Daenerys VI, ASOS).

Why saying all of this? Because the propaganda they used to frame her as Mhysa in the show is the same the slaves of Volantis fall prey to. Her reputation makes the slaves of Volantis pray for her coming and for her to free them all, but it is pretty clear Daenerys will not go to Volantis. She will turn west and begin her campaign to take back the IT.

Daenerys had the moment of choice, to be actually mother to her people. Take her dragons and go to the dead city with her khalaasar and make it bloom again — which would be the definition of mother of her people — instead she choses the path west, the path of war, because the dragons made all the difference.

This is important and it is the second aware choice she makes after the pyre, after becoming the Mother of Dragons (her first choice is the possibly half-unaware choice to sacrifice Rhaego for Drogo, and then Drogo, the stallion, Mirri and herself to raise again with three dragons to her breast) — in fact it is told in the book that the frightened child Illyrio gave as bride to Khal Drogo, the mother of his unborn child, died and was born again as a real Targaryen in fire and blood — and in fact her own fury takes charge of charcter exactly in that moment, when Daenerys realizes what she has done, and accuses Mirri of it). From thereon is a downhill path.

She must not have tears in her eyes, but the flames of the drago's fury when she faces her allies and enemies. Slowly but surely, her fury burns all vestiges of her character as mother. The fact that Martin makes her title pile up with the common theme of motherhood is to highlight how little of a mother her character is.

Mother of dragons, Daenerys thought. Mother of monsters. What have I unleashed upon the world? A queen I am, but my throne is made of burned bones, and it rests on quicksand. Without dragons, how could she hope to hold Meereen, much less win back Westeros? I am the blood of the dragon, she thought. If they are monsters, so am I. — Daenerys II, ADWD

"None, this one grieves to confess. We beg your pardon."

Mercy, thought Dany. They will have the dragon's mercy. "Skahaz, I have changed my mind. Question the man sharply." "I could. Or I could question the daughters sharply whilst the father looks on. That will wring some names from him." "Do as you think best, but bring me names." Her fury was a fire in her belly.  — Daenerys II, ADWD

Up until now, and for every other character associated with the mother, the defense of the children is foremost. And yet Daenerys' children are the dragons, and not even her being Mhysa, saves the girls (girls who are innocent of their father's eventual misdeeds) from torture.

The woman who crucified free men, without any kind of inquiry or investigation, for the crucified children, tortures children to defend men and soldier who should be able to defend themselves. Which is the difference between the soldiers killed and the girls tortured? The girls have no purpose for her, her unsullied being killed put a stain to her reputation and weakens her resources for the campaign west. You can't get much more different from the Virgin Mary than this. Or the thematic Mother. Her song is the songs of the dragons.

Sansa Stark ~ Mother of the North — teach us all a kinder way

Of all the big characters, Sansa is the only one who yet has not known pregnancy or the loss of a child. And yet, she is the character that best embodies the Mother and her mercy and compassion.

Cersei, Daenerys, even Catelyn have turned their mercy off due the trauma they endured. Not Sansa.

The trauma she endured taught Sansa a kinder way. Sansa shows compassion, mercy and gentleness from day one.

She begs Joffrey the stop his squabble with Arya and the butcher boy, hoping she might soothe his wrath; later she pleads for Jeyne to be reunited with her lord father, and she asks mercy for her lord father in open court — kneeling before Joffrey as the Virgin Mary knelt before the cross — she thinks, naively, that the love Joffrey bears her will ensure that her closeness will sooth his fury against her lord father and ensure Ned is pardoned and alive.

She's wrong, and Joffrey shows her so by executing Ned, showing her his head (and her septa's), by beating her for every victory Robb won and mistreating her for her sin of ‘having the blood of a wolf’.

And yet, despite all she endures at the hands of the Lannisters, Sansa still acts. She stills comforts the women during the siege (duty which should have befallen on Cersei), she still helps saving Lancel's life (even though he has taken part of her humiliation and beatings), she speaks out (when no one else did) to save Dontos, she still prays for Tyrion and the Hound, who have shown her a speck of decency (if confronted to the others, which is very below the line of decency but that doesn't figure for Sansa, what little they have done, sparks her compassion for them). Sansa's thoughts go to all, the old and the young, the mothers and the children as well as the soldiers when she prays during the siege of KL.

It's Sansa's doing that the woman with the dead babe is not killed, as she is the one who manipulates Joffrey to give her coin instead of death.

Her singing the hymn of the Mother not only reassures the women, but it also soothes the wrath and fury of the Hound, who had come to rape her. Her singing the hymn of the Mother softens him to her, and he doesn't harm her physically — though he has traumatized her to the point she resorts to romancing the entire encounter to suppress the trauma she suffered at his hands — saving her life and possibly being a pivotal momento for the Hound's future story.

Sansa has become, despite lady Lysa' betrayal, the primary caretaker of her cousin Robert, and she's being a mother to him. It is hinted at, that Sansa will possibly uncover LF' plot to have Robert poisoned and put a stop to it.

Sansa dreams of children, whereas Cersei dreams of the Iron throne, Lady Stoneheart doesn't dream but of vengeance and Daenerys dreams of the Last Dragon.

Sansa's children are foretold to become lords/ladies of Winterfell and restore the North, just as their mother. LF, Lysa and Lady Waynwood all want to use her and her claim, and her son (Ned Stark's grandson)'s claim to take Winterfell and exercise power over the North; the same thing Tywin wanted to do by marrying her to Tyrion.

For now Sansa is still a virgin too.

Even Jon, defending Sansa's claim reminds us that Winterfell is supposed to fall in Sansa's hands and later in her children's.

Another important piece for this analysis comes from this thought:

 In the sept they sing for the Mother's mercy but on the walls it's the Warrior they pray to, and all in silence. She remembered how Septa Mordane used to tell them that the Warrior and the Mother were only two faces of the same great god. But if there is only one, whose prayers will be heard? — Sansa V, ACOK

It's Sansa the one who chooses which prayer to be heard.

She silently steels herself as the Warrior, and her weapons are the compassion and mercy of the Mother.

"Unhand me. You forget yourself." "Mercy. I have been singing love songs for hours. My blood is stirred. And yours, I know . . . there's no wench half so lusty as one bastard born. Are you wet for me?" "I'm a maiden," she protested. — Sansa VI, ASOS

Sansa in her compassion is capable to feel sorry even for Marillion, who tried to rape her and stood by as Lysa attempted to kill her. She feels dirty and sorry and guilty because she has let LF convince her to frame him for Lysa' murder, even though he would not have raised a finger to save her and in the last chapters of her as Alayne we see how this is the pivotal moment which marks her completely breaking from LF' hold. She is against framing Marillion, she'd give him mercy if she could, and this moment marks her return to Sansa Stark, because it's the moment in which more starkly she feels the difference between Ned Stark, her real father, and LF, her false father.

Honorable mentions — Lyanna, Lysa and Elia ~ save our sons from war, we pray

Lyanna Stark —› Lyanna is little more than a child when she meets Rhaegar and bears his son. While we are still in the unknown about how things have gone in the books for Lyanna dn Rhaegar and the show frames it as a romantic escape, I feel confident in saying that as such (or not only as such) it will be in the books. Lyanna only three phrases known are: “Promise me, Ned”, “That's my father's man you are kicking!” and “Love is sweet, but it cannot change a man's nature”. Given this, I would think there is much more underneath the eloping lady to Lyanna, and it will be tragic. And yet, her most important quote is Promise me, Ned. It's the phrase that saved her son, the phrase that saved Jon. Whatever else, Lyanna is a girl, and a mother. A mother who lost her life, and as she did her only thought was the protection of her son. Elia Martell —› Elia is the mother of the butchered children. Being a mother is the core fundation of her character, she risked her life to bear her children, she nursed them at her breast and potentially plotted in a capital against her to save at least her son. Elia showed same as Lyanna that often the strength of women is not in the sword that they may wield, but in their love for their children. Lysa Arryn —› Lysa undoubtedly loves her son, and yet she, if left alone to care for him, would've been his ruin. She is convinced Jon Arryn was speaking about Robert when he spoke about the seed being strong. In her paranoia and fear for her son, she stays neutral during the WO5K, and, later out of madness she attempts to kill her own niece for her jealousy over a man who never was hers to begin with.

Now, that would be enough, but it is not, since part of the whole matter was Daenerys as a foil to the Virgin Mary.

The Virgin Mary ~ Hail Mary, full of grace

Now, we've seen the hymn of the Mother in asoiaf, but what about the prayer of the Virgin Mary? (before we delve into her figure and her traits).

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and in the hour of our death. Amen.

As you can see the hymn of the Mother shares some points with the Hail Mary. And that common trait is the compassion the Mother and the Virgin Mary are the embodiment of.

Mary prays for the sinners, even the same sinners who have crucified her son, always. And that is the cifra of her blessing, she's so pure and “holy” that the Almighty chose her to bear his son, who was born with the purpose of cleanse man of the original sin, and later didn't make her die, but rose her to the heavens, where, as per Dante's and the Church's vision she sits at the place of honor of the Heaven.

In the Divina Commedia, the structure of the heaven itself (once Dante has went through the several skies) is an embodiment of Mary's blessing, as it's a sort of rows of seat ordained in a way that forms a flower...

... wanna guess which one? You guessed it... A ROSE. The celestial rose.

As you can see, Mary has the place of honor, (a woman, has the seat of honor above the men, let that sink in — that was the kind of veneration which surrounds the Virgin Mary). The Virgin is even put in a better seat than Peter and Adam.

Of all the women of asoiaf there is one who is given a rose — in the current timeline, obv — and two more whose' fate was decided by a rose in the past, plus one who is given flowers, but they do not bode well for her.

Yeah, it's Sansa Stark. Sansa is not only given a rose during the tourney to celebrate her father, but she's given the ONLY red rose. Also she's framed as the blue rose (so the rare flower as the blue rose is framed behind her in several instances in the show). The rose of Winterfell, whose son became king in the north.

And if you think about it, Daenerys is given flowers too, but which flowers?, she's given Dusk Rose, Lady's Lace, and Harpy's Gold.

The dusk rose which represents healing — and it connects to the plague in Meereen and the drastic measures that Daenerys is foreshadowed to take once she returns and decides that the compassion she has shown has been spat in her face — it has a purple color, that not only symbolizes royalty, but also of poison (as the poison Daenerys is given in Meereen and that possibly makes her miscarry after she flees, which is a pivotal moment which marks her turning all dragon — as I've analyzed in this post).

The Lady's Lace is possibly inspired by Queen Anne's Lace which is connected with attracting love — and we know one of Daenerys' betrayal will come from love or for of love — and whilst its bloom was believed to cure epilepsy, do you know how people in the ancient times used the seeds of this flower?, to avoid pregnancies or to terminate an unwanted pregnancy, and modern studies tell us there is merit in this ancient medicine for the flower can be dangerous for a pregnant woman. Need I say more? With Daenerys at least one miscarriage, plus probably others she has not recognized as such.

And yes, the Harpy's Gold is a poisonous plant albeit very beautiful. And can a flower symbolize Daenerys as much?, I said once, I'll say again that her names imo comes from the alliteration of Deianira and Iris (which mean in turns “destroyer of men” and “very beautiful woman”). The Harpy's Gold is purple, as Daenerys' eyes.

And obviously the two women in the past whose fate was sealed by roses are Lyanna and Elia, for Rhaegar' naming Lyanna queen of love and beauty. And it ended in tragedy, both women dead, their children either survived by chance and in hiding or killed cruelly.

Also, both sons of these women “resurrect” : Aegon metaphorically by claiming his birthright and his identity after hiding behind his false death and Jon by actually being raised from death.

And what about the Virgin's traits, you might ask?

First of all, the New Testament describes Mary as a woman of such humility and obedience to the message of God that she is chosen to carry his son.

(And I have already discussed on the matter of humility and arrogance of Sansa vs Daenerys, here and here).

On the top of that, Daenerys knows that there are Gods, but she annoverates herself between them:

“Up here in her garden Dany sometimes felt like a god, living atop the highest mountain in the world. Do all Gods feel so lonely?” (— Daenerys VI, ASOS);

whilst, Sansa, despite all the trauma and tragedy she has endured thinks:

“There are gods, she told herself, and there are true knights too. All the stories can't be lies.” (— Sansa IV, ACOK).

Mary has royal blood, and through her blood Jesus descends from royalty too. And, since infancy she has been known for her piety, beauty, gentleness and her devotion.

She's determined in her faith, and she never once turns her fury against the Lord for the tragedy that strikes her life (her son's death), she instead closes herself in prayer and guide others who follow her example.

“Was he mocking her? It wasn't the gods who'd been cruel, it was Joffrey.” — Sansa I, ACOK

“What had she ever done to make the gods so cruel?” — Daenerys VII, AGOT

And whilst the Magi (the three kings who bear gifts for Jesus under a comet) reminds me of Maegi (Mirri who calls herself godswife. With the consequent death of Rhaego, Daenerys' blood sacrifice and the red comet in the sky) here it defines even more the foils:

Daenerys receives “gifts” from her misadventure with Mirri, three dragons as three were the gifts borne by the Magi to Jesus. The point is this:

No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words. "Fire and Blood," Daenerys told the swaying grass.— Daenerys X, ADWD

There is in Egypt, near Cairo, the Virgin Mary's Tree, where the Holy Family took at first respite whilst they escaped Herod's fury. Which speaks of Mary's nurture.

Instead the gifts the Magi gives Jesus are supposed to show for his status, whilst Daenerys receives three dragons she uses to subjugate three cities in Slavers Bay.

On the other hand, Sansa is given three gifts as well, in a way, when the comet pass. Her “betrothed — the dragon's heir” (yes this is Jonsa, because Aegon is meant for Arianne, fight me on this and Jon is already defending her birthright which is attacked on all sides); the support of the Knights of the Vale (which will help her from her exile back in her homeland) and I think it's foreshadowed also the help of the Mountain Clans&the Riverlands. As Ned and Catelyn's daughter.

(paraphrasing, she receives three gifts: her compassion, her political cleverness and her honor as well; which will grant her the three above).

Another important aspect I am reminded of, in the books and show, is that, before showing for the first time his miracles, Jesus looks at Mary and awaits for her approval.

Before changing the water in wine, Jesus — who had mostly hidden his miracles for his own safety — looks at Mary and asks her approval, approval she gives by nodding and giving him way for it is time.

Which reminds me of the way Jon (resurrected one) works in tandem with Sansa, he doesn't do everything with her approval, but damn if her approval and her way of thinking doesn't shape him as a king and as a man. Look at the times Sansa nods to him, and approves of him when he is named king.

Haven't seen that in Daenerys, as she is the woman who takes her son's place (she wanted to put Rhaego on the throne even before Viserys died, and then with his death she assumes that role; as well as that of the Stallion who mounts the world, or so she thinks) instead of the woman who is foreshadowed to bring back her son to his homeland or giving her homeland the heir needed, her and later her child.

"Balon Greyjoy thinks in terms of plunder, not rule. Let him enjoy an autumn crown and suffer a northern winter. He will give his subjects no cause to love him. Come spring, the northmen will have had a bellyful of krakens. When you bring Eddard Stark's grandson home to claim his birthright, lords and little folk alike will rise as one to place him on the high seat of his ancestors. — Tyrion III, ASOS

On the top of that Daenerys is barren, so she has no virtual, nor real, heir to her throne; instead Sansa is foreshadowed not only to become queen, but to birth kings/queens. It's the core of her character, restoring the North and rebuilding House Stark.

Mary is the first believer, and she is considered embodiment of the Woman (the perfect example of woman all women should strive to replicate) and the Church itself.

In the same way as Sansa is the epitome of the princess of a song, but she's also the North, she's House Stark — she's the one building Winterfell back from snow — and did you know there is in Italy the Holy Mary Lady of the Snows?, and do you know where is her primary sanctuary? In the city of Sanza. I'm not even joking, look it up!: city of Sanza, 5th of august, Madonna delle Nevi.

Mindblowing, isn't it?

Instead, as the flames are epitome of the Hells, there is not, to my knowledge a Holy Mary associated with the flames, though there is another Holy Mary who is associated with stopping the flames. You know which one is her name?, Holy Mary of the riverbank (yeah I am not joking, again — in the city of Cuneo, there is the Madonna della Riva) who apparently appeared and stopped the flames that were burning the city and had sparked from the sanctuary, saving the people from the fires.

I mean... it doesn't get clearer than that, doesn't it?

And that's it (for now, I've long since learned that no serie of metas is ever done with)

I mean, I knew this one would turn monstrously long (totally blame @esther-dot and @minitafan for this one, which is half classical theme of the Mother and half biblical), but I hope you enjoyed!

As always, if there is someone who is an expert and wants to adds their two cents, be my guests!

Sending all my love~G.

#sansa stark #anti daenerys targaryen #daenerys stormborn #dark daenerys #the biblical series #the role of the mother #foils and parallels #cersei lannister #catelyn stark #lady stoneheart #there's always a side dish of Jonsa #it just makes sense #it was so long I had to reset the paragraphs because they were too many #enough said #ask the hag

[butterflies-dragons]

Struck by reality . . . .

Sansa could feel the Hound watching her. "Did you think Joff was going to take you himself?" He laughed. He had a laugh like the snarling of dogs in a pit. "Small chance of that." He pulled her unresisting to her feet. "Come, you're not the only one needs sleep. I've drunk too much, and I may need to kill my brother tomorrow." He laughed again. Suddenly terrified, Sansa pushed at Septa Mordane's shoulder, hoping to wake her, but she only snored the louder. King Robert had stumbled off and half the benches were suddenly empty. The feast was over, and the beautiful dream had ended with it.

—A Game of Thrones - Sansa II

"No." He could hear the defeat in her voice. "Sorry to be of trouble, m'lord. I only . . . they said the king keeps people safe, and I thought . . ." Despairing, she ran, Sam's cloak flapping behind her like great black wings. Jon watched her go, his joy in the morning's brittle beauty gone. Damn her, he thought resentfully, and damn Sam twice for sending her to me. What did he think I could do for her? We're here to fight wildlings, not save them. Other men were crawling from their shelters, yawning and stretching. The magic was already faded, icy brightness turning back to common dew in the light of the rising sun.

—A Clash of Kings - Jon III

The golden prince wasn't really gallant.

There was no true knight, just a brute sellsword bodyguard.

The king doesn't keep people safe.

It's hard to be a true knight constricted by so many empty vows.

Also, take note how that's the first chapter where Sansa is called a little bird, and how Gilly was wearing Sam's cloak, too big for her that looked like great black wings flapping when she ran.

Jon was thinking about Sansa's sense of wonder before meeting Gilly, and when the girl said her name he complimented it, like Sansa once taught him.

And good sweet Sam telling Gilly that the king keeps people safe sounds just like Sansa.

BONUS:

The Show gave Jon's lines about Sansa and the magic beyond the Wall to Sam Tarly, and they made it about Sam and Gilly:

GAME OF THRONES - SEASON 2 - EPISODE 5 - THE GHOST OF HARRENHAL

SAM: Beautiful, isn't it? Gilly would love it here.

DOLOROUS EDD (to GRENN): There's nothing more sickening than a man in love.

#sansa stark #jon snow #sansa x jon #jon x sansa #jonsa #pararells #this episode was written by d&d . . . . . #so don't tell me jon/sansa aren't romantic coded and that they weren't aware of that #finally i have to thank my angry anons for helping me find a new jonsa parallel - you are the best xoxo

[thewindsofwolves]

Jon Snow & Sansa Stark Book Parallels & Mentions 50/∞ : Seen as outcast because of their bastards status

Benjen Stark gave Jon a long look. "Don't you usually eat at table with your brothers?" "Most times," Jon answered in a flat voice. "But tonight Lady Stark thought it might give insult to the royal family to seat a bastard among them." A Game Of Thrones, Jon I

Ser Harrold looked down at her coldly. "Why should it please me to be escorted anywhere by Littlefinger's bastard?" The Winds Of Winter, Alayne I

#jonsa #jon x sansa #actuallyjonsa #jon snow #sansa stark #jonsa book parallels serie #my posts #gifs/edits by me #got #game of thrones #gotedits #asoiaf #asoiafedits #a song of ice and fire #and once again : no catelyn hate on this post please !!! #there are other parallels but this was my last gifs and idk if/when i'll do more sorry :( #sansastarkedit #jonsnowedit

[what-do-1000-swords-look-like]

Jonsa Parallel - Seeing the threat

Sansa: "You've been so consumed with the enemy to the North that you've forgotten about the one to the South."

Jon: "I'm consumed with the Night King because I've seen him. And believe me, you'd think of little else if you had, too."

Sansa: "We still have a wall between us and the Night King. There's nothing between us and Cersei."

Jon: "There's a thousand miles between us and Cersei. Winter is here. The Lannisters are a Southern army. They've never ranged this far north."

Sansa: "You're the military man but I know her. If you're her enemy, she'll never stop until she's destroyed you. Everyone who's ever crossed her, she's found a way to murder."

While Cersei didn't turn out to be the threat that Dany was in the end, Cersei was indeed the threat that Sansa was worried about consumed with while Jon worried about/was consumed with the NK.

So to me it makes total sense that they had Sansa acting as regent & preparing for the NK battle while Jon was away and then we saw this scene happening with Dany involved and of course the line she says "Your capitol will be safe until the Northern threat is dealt with.":

(because Cersei and Dany's own parallels were coming into play and the show was going to keep the GA guessing on who would be the bigger threat in the end & of course they split that good ol' Mad Queen arc between them)

Interwoven parallels I tell you. Interwoven. Parallels.

Bonus:

Both of them saw Dany for what she was and the threat she ended up posing

#jonsa #jon x sansa #jonsa meta #got #game of thrones #gotposts #jonsaposts #jonsa parallels

[esther-dot]

I think Euron allying with Cersei was show thing. Especially since she won't be queen in books and Euron likely gonna meet Dany. But one thing I noticed is Jonsa parallels. Cersei forced to ally with Euron who demands sexual favours. He then mock Jaime about it. Later in rage Jaime killed Euron and unite with Cersei. It was similar to Sansa being rape by Ramsey and molested by LF. Both taunted Jon about it and he almost killed them in rage. Do you think it's coincidence or deliberate?

I agree that Cersei x Euron is likely just a show thing! As for those darn paralells...

I've actually seen a gifset paralleling Jon's reaction to Tyrion talking about consummating his marriage to Sansa with Euron mocking Jaime (link), but you're right that Jon trying to beat Ramsay to death with his bare hands and then Jaime killing Euron on his way to save Cersei is very interesting. The LF parallel is visually very similar to Ned trying to kill him all the way back in s1, but Jon's palpable rage feels similar to Jaime's reaction to Euron's taunting. Anyway, no, I don't think all the parallels are accidental, because even if some are incidental, there are several that are just way too similar, and the way Jonsa is consistently paralleled or contrasted with other romantic relationships is just...it's too much unless they were indicating something about the nature of their attachment.

We have Jonsa parallels with NedCat, Braime, Sam X Gilly, Jaime x Cersei ...it's a lot and I'll always be annoyed that D&D threw it in there s6-8, and then just...never confirmed anything about what that meant. They even repeat a scene of Sansa/Tyrion between Sansa /Jon because it's normal to take a scene talking about Sansa's betrothed with her husband and make her repeat that with her brother (link).

There's more, but you get the idea. Maybe D&D thought the NedCat thing was cute, maybe they thought the Jaime x Cersei contrast was fun, maybe they didn't realize the implication of the Jon and Tyrion stuff, but why the heck recreate Sam x Gilly and Braime scenes with Jonsa? Why the NedCat cosplay?

There was no point unless their relationship was romantic.

So, I'll always think that nonsense was deliberate, anon, and I'll always hope D&D acknowledge it at some point and give us an explanation!

#ask dot #jonsa parallels