Isn't it fun how everyone saw what terrified them most, but Nya's was so "unbelievable" that she broke out instantly? She was shown the one thing that was supposed to terrify her, make her spiral. But of course it wasn't real. It's Jay. If there's one thing she never once doubted, its that Jay is absolutely smitten, so of course he'd never forget her. What a silly thing to think, to be afraid of. She went through so damn much for this boy, and him for her, and we know how she is. Wouldn't it be petrifying if all that work, all that emotional turmoil, that clawing for love, could be forgotten just like that? Its quite a feat, really, that she can finally be confident in knowing such a fear is irrational.
It was easy to break free from such a place. It was only ever meant to scare her, and she has nothing to be afraid of. Right?
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I really don’t think we should be treating morality as a linear thing in ASOIAF because what often happens is that we start to stray from the actual conversations that we need to be having regarding the depths of making a moral choice and even the circumstances involved. To try and blankly paint any one character as the “most morally good” isn’t really taking us anywhere. And it certainly isn’t helpful when people in this fandom want to try and prove that characters are “grey” but not moral (what does that even mean??) because they did one “bad” thing. If ASOIAF stans were to have their way, then:
Jon is not a morally good person because he threatened Gilly
Dany cannot be considered to be compassionate because she sanctioned torture against the wine seller’s daughters
Arya cant be good because she has killed people
and so on, and so on….
But this is such a draining, and oft times frustrating, conversation to have because you see just how shallow the above listed examples are? Readers are listing only singular instances across a narrative that spans thousand and thousands of pages, and there’s absolutely no context involved. Why did Jon threaten Gilly? Why did Dany resort to torture and at one point did she do it? Who did Arya kill and why? And why do those singular instances negate everything else in their arcs?
What usually happens when we have the 12847647282th unnecessary conversation about who is the “most good” character in ASOIAF is that we start getting blanket statements with no elaboration. And the only people ever considered are Ned, Brienne, and Davos, and sometimes the children like Shireen or Tommen. Mind you, Ned and Davos are not perfect or without their own faults either; much has been said about Ned’s abilities as a father and it’s implied that Davos was not entirely faithful to his wife. And based on her current arc, Brienne will surely have to make morally tough choices regarding oaths and knightly honor. Plus theres the irony of including literal children when they have not been put in situations where they actually have to make morally difficult choices and live with the consequences.
ASOIAF shows us that people who are capable of incredible kindness and compassion are also capable of doing unpleasant things.
Jon threatened Gilly….because he was trying to save another child whom he believed to be at risk of human sacrifice(!!) and was stuck between a rock and a hard place. But why does that singular instance negate the fact that his arc has been about him standing up for the “lesser than”? Why does that negate the fact that he stood up for Sam against a superior when there was nothing to gain for him? Why does it negate the fact that he went out of his way to equip Arya in a way that society would have deemed inappropriate? Why does it negate the fact that he dedicated the entirety of his time as Lord Commander to fight an institution that had upheld racism/xenophobia for millennia? Why should we filter out all those moments of kindness, compassion, and deep empathy that Jon has even without him thinking?
Dany sanctioned torture….but she was trying to solve the murder of an innocent victim AND this brought her no joy. But why does that negate the fact that when she gained unimaginable power, she could’ve high tailed to Westeros to use it to her benefit and become queen, but instead chose to stay in Essos where she has no personal responsibility just so she could fight the institutional evil that is slavery? Why does it negate Dany who went to personally treat plague victims at great risk to herself?
Arya has killed some….but it’s in self defense or in defense of others who are disenfranchised. But why does this negate that she is one of the few people in the series how goes out of her way to show kindness and friendship to those who are not as economically or politically advantaged as she is (e.g., Mycah)? Why does it negate that she took fellow slaves under her protection when she herself had little power to fight for her own survival at Harrenhall? Why does it negate that when she saw those caged soldiers whom she was angry with for their actions, instead of leaving them to die instead offered them the only kindness she could at the moment: a drink of water?
Trying to have arguments about morality but stripping everything down to ‘x character did y bad thing (regardless of context) and that’s why they can’t be good’ is, to be blunt, ridiculous. And it isn’t a particularly interesting way to engage with the text. Character journeys, especially well written ones, are rarely ever in a straight line. There’s amazing highs and terrible lows. GRRM gives us so many characters like Jon, Dany, Arya, Sansa, Ned, etc. who even in their lows, have gleams of compassion and exceptional kindness. It doesn’t do anyone any good to filter those moments out to make the books more digestible; and I’m being a little generous here, because so many readers have a very shallow level of engagement with the series and it shows in conversation. And we also shouldn’t pit these characters unfairly against those who have never been in similarly difficult situations that required them to make hard choices. Because when we do, we start to completely miss the point all together.
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not to be too real but since we're talking about it... we always talk about will feeling lonely which is fair, but... it is such an Ugly, isolating, and genuinely heart-wrenching feeling to be the odd one out in your family, and to watch them treat others who aren't related to you the way you wish they would treat you, to watch them perform their familial roles with them and not you.
nancy's the only person in his family that mike could talk to, the only person that has the same trauma and would understand, and yet... he can't. they don't ever talk unless it's to be snippy and bite. nancy spends more time caring about max and will than she does mike, her own little brother.
holly is too young for him to bond with like that. she's just barely a kid, one that still needs to be cared for.
his mom tries her best, but he doesn't feel comfortable being vulnerable with her. considering the fact that she did everything "right" according to society's standards and married their dad of all people, i doubt he feels comfortable showing her who he really is. he lets her hug him when he's at his lowest, but we don't see them actually connecting.
his dad is just some ghost that haunts his house. he doesn't care about mike or think highly of him at all. the only times we've seen him pay mike any attention are when he belittles his interests, mocks him, punishes him, or shuts him down by telling him to listen to his mother. the only support he gets from him is financial in nature.
meanwhile, everyone else has a family they can turn to. dustin, despite lying to his mother to keep her out of his shenanigans, seems to have a decent relationship with her. even if he doesn't, he still has steve and robin. lucas is shown to have a healthy relationship with his parents and erica. will and el have their family.
max's situation is different, but she has the backing of the party; people that love her and actively try to help her and pull her back into the world of the living. she isn't thrust into a leadership role that doesn't allow for vulnerability. she has nancy who is willing to fight monsters for her, el who literally performed a miracle for her, and lucas who has stood by her since the beginning.
and mike... well. he has will back now, sure, but... things have been different between them for a long time now, even if they're both trying their best to be how they were before. and before then, will obviously was in california, not returning his calls or reaching out, making mike feel like he'd lost him for good.
so... all that being said, it's not that surprising that mike is the way he is: riddled with abandonment issues, wanting to be needed, immediately apologizing whenever he dares to open up, inclined to give others the protection and comfort no one's ever given him, prone to jealousy and possessiveness, unable to be completely and wholly honest about what troubles him, not exactly the most open to new people, and someone with appallingly low self-esteem.
you know how they say people that are drowning don't always look like they're drowning? that's mike.
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*returns to yours* I HAVE THOUGHTS! NOT COHERENT ONES TOO SLEEPY AND NEED TO SAVE COHERENCY BUT THOUGHTS!!! MOSTLY ABOUT ISLAND TEAPARTIES AFTER THE KIDS ARE ASLEEP WHERE CELLBIT AND PHILZA DRINK TEA AND PHILZA TEACHES CELLBIT ABOUT STARS AND CELLBIT SLOWLY GETS BACK INTO HIS ENIGMAS AND THEY BOTH BITCH ABOUT TEA BUT DRINK IT ANYWAY BECAUSE IT HAS GOOD STATS
YEAAH!! YEAHHH!!! Okay okay okay so I meant to ramble more earlier when you initially responded to my ask and then I got sleepy and conked out and now it's super early for me, nailed it lmaooo. so anyway just like a couple things i noticed abt this scene *rolls out a scroll of notes, the bottom hits the floor and bounces out the door cartoon-style*
Chayanne gives Cellbit a rose!! Idk if Rose still has influence here (I'll have to sift through Phil's VOD to see if he says anything abt Rose, yesterday I mainly watched Cellbit's POV) but he's protected now!! That kinda folds him into Phil's "closer" circle of friends/family since it's primarily them who carries the roses for protection so!!!!! I'm!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THE TEA!! Yes the tea the way the tea immediately broaches the topic of purgatory, and yeah the audible wince in Phil's voice after Cellbit says the tea triggers him and Phil agrees. Yeah it's so shit and they're both so sick of it but it's so OP. Phil survivalist (hardcore) :handshake: Cellbit survivalist (hunger games/"The War"), do and use what is necessary to keep yourself alive.
And AAA!! Yes, okay okay so like you remember that idea abt Phil and Cellbit having late-night convos at the Order pre-purgatory? This is basically that!! It's late at night, they're getting caught up with each other, they've both got the shitass tea and it's going cold and!! In my head this scene goes on for a full night and they just sit and talk and talk and talk, eventually conking out when it's late, just like old times EXCEPT THEY HAVE THEIR KIDS NOW WHICH IS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT BROUGHT THEM TOGETHER, THEIR DESIRE TO FIND THEIR KIDS, AND THEY FOUND THEM!!! (I should write a fic i NEED to write a fic, me vs the 754389 wips in my brain; in my head they still had late night convos in purgatory when their "play time" timers lined up, phil waking up early enough and cellbit staying up late enough for them to talk while the others slept)
The way Cellbit still minces his words abt what he and Bags did post-purg 1 "we had our fun...bolas...style..." is it because he thinks Phil will think less of him? because there's children present? because his SON is present? idk how much Richas knows abt what Cellbit did in purgatory, Richas *did* rescue him while he was fighting eye workers but does he know about Cellbit hunting fellow players for sport? what Cellbit did to his pai Pac? I NEED ANSWERS
Phil's "Dude! No! Oh my god... D:" to when Cellbit says Roier was better off without him. PHIL WAS AT THEIR WEDDING. HE TOOK THE GODDAMN PHOTOS OF THEM AT THEIR WEDDING. HE SAW HOW HAPPY THEY WERE, HOW HAPPY ROIER WAS, WHEN THEY WERE REUNITED IN PURGATORY. Phil isn't close enough to Roier nor speaks to him enough to really understand the full extent of Roier's grief after purgatory 1, but it's gotta be hard for Phil to imagine Roier happy with Cellbit gone. Whether he believes it when Cellbit says "yeah Roier told me he was better" (doied WHEN I GET YOU---) is up for debate but I think about this constantly.
Phil fucking laughing when Cellbit admits he ate some of the eye workers fhdjsk. I can't get over the combo of Cellbit POV (in character thinking: "I'm terrible I'm a cannibal I'm a monster") vs Philza POV (cc who laughs at everything that is even remotely cursed) honestly, taking this as in-character (bc ccPhil doesn't mute his mic to laugh and he...usually does that for ooc bits while in the middle of rp), it says a lot abt qPhil that he's able to just laugh abt an admission of eating corpses. ethics who? geneva convention who? qPhil doesn't know her. munch on those eye workers king they're dickheads. (fuck, DOES qPhil know that Cellbit is a cannibal, as in, he has eaten not just workers but other players?? hmmm...)
"I'm sorry I couldn't do much as bolas leader" "It's better that you didn't see us...I think you'll be disappointed" "oh I could never be disappointed what do you mean shut up *laughs*" GODDDDDDDD also Cellbit trying to say he got worse after purg 1 and Phil saying "nah bolas is already at ground level" (either not understanding or indirectly reiterating that he won't condemn Cellbit for his actions, I can't tell) and then Cellbit just,, going with it. because it's not worth it to argue and he's trying to move past all of that now anyway. (QCELLBIT PROCESS YOUR TRAUMA CHALLENGE LEVEL IMPOSSIBLE)
watching Phil's POV now and HFDJSK you can't hear it on Cellbit's stream but Phil catches Richas as they're both leaving and says quietly, "Take care of your dad, Richas, n' take care." I'M 💥💥💥💥 (<-banging table)
Anyway!! This is what happens when the two characters I'm obsessed with interact for the first time in months. Over-analyzing a 5 minute convo. Sorry, it will happen again :] Praying they stay as neighbors I'd love to see archivists have more interactions!! And yes yes yes yes the tea parties with the kids!! Phil routinely chatting with Cellbit and watching him slowly "regain his color" as he settles back into peaceful life post-purgatory, falls in love with enigmas again. They've always trusted each other when they don't trust themselves, and they're both a Stable Point for the other. I'll miss what we never got to have with the leaders-of-the-Order-having-meetings ideas (timezones, wails) but I'm so excited for new island mysteries!! :D
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I'm probably one of the only people in these times that's an incredibly weird place creatively, because I'm almost 30 years old, I'm incredibly mature, more mature than most people I see post on the internet, I have a lot of nuanced detrimental complex philosophical thoughts all day everyday, I am tragically thoughtful, and yet every single time I open up this app, at least half the time I see people posting cringe warnings about self-inserts and fanfictions and anything posted on fanfiction.net, which is where I am posting my work daily in the forms of self-insert which I take incredibly seriously, what a strange combination of a culture. I'm severely depressed and my self-esteem is low as anything but it's also kind of funny, or could be, how utterly strange of a combination it is for a person to process their suffering.
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So confused where fandom/fic writers got this interpretation that Miles does stupid shit that doesn’t make sense or barely works out in the end or puts his friends in unnecessary danger all the time. Like in both movies the others simply underestimate him and don’t understand what Miles is doing cause he thinks like Miles, not like your everyday Spiderman. He uses his Venom Strike to throw Kingpin in the ITSV movie and literally saves Gwen and Peter because they went into battle less than ready. Then had the entire plan to lure the Spiders in ATSV, yet I keep seeing him written like he doesn’t think or gets his friends in trouble even when he understands the danger. Most of the time his different thinking has helped or led people to fix personal issues.
The first movie alone pretty much sets in stone that the exact opposite of what he wants is others to get hurt by his actions, inactions or the actions of others and trying to live up to that belief and the expectations it carries. Across the Spider-verse hammers it home with how he constantly tries to save people because that’s what he should do, rather than listen to some theory that is clearly not absolute at best and outright wrong at worst. Every fic has him being the one to cause issues and not fix them when his planning and actions literally helped save Gayatri and her father. (c’mon we know the glitching was the spot)
Yeah, I get making him stubborn or strong willed cause he doesn’t listen all the time but usually it’s for a good and valid reason, if he listened every time he was told not to, guess how many of our beloved characters would be dead?
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