#just like respect? peoples identities?

[pikp0kcas3]

The Hazbin Hotel fandom’s issue with accepting aromanticism and asexuality

Now that it is officially Aromantic Spectrum Awareness Week, I want to talk about this!

I find that, as an aroace myself, I am constantly grasping at good representation and coming up empty— it usually ends up in one of two ways.

One: the character is portrayed as emotionless, cold, and robotic in nature. It’s the question aromantic and/or asexual people are often asked: “Are you heartless?” The answer is no, of course, but general media makes it out to be the opposite.

Or two: Their lack of attraction is seen as something to “fix” because they “haven’t found the right one yet”, and they end up with a partner as a “happy ending”.

It frustrates me greatly because of how little people actually see aromanticism or asexuality as a true part of the LGBTQIA+ community.

So when I watched Hazbin Hotel, and I found out about Alastor being aroace, I was over the moon. I was on cloud nine. I also saw how his voice actor has looked up the term as an attempt to learn about aroaces, which makes me OVERJOYED?? Amir is truly a blessing, and I love that he’s proud to embody a character that’s part of our community. It’s so beautiful to finally have a proper character, a fan favorite at that, who just so happens to be aroace— and that’s another thing I love about this.

It’s never explicitly stated in the show (though it is stated in interviews), but it’s rather clear when you’re watching, isn’t it? Alastor’s aversion to any sort of sexual advancement, coupled with Rosie’s blatant “I know you’re an ace in the hole” comment sort of spell out his asexuality pretty clearly, as well as what side of the spectrum he falls upon. In addition, his Valentine’s day card was strictly platonic, which caters to his aromantic side. It feels so validating to finally be represented, to finally have a character in media who shares the same lack of interest in romance and sex as I do.

When I entered the fandom to look for more content, I kind of expected to see the same respect for Alastor’s orientation there too. But that… wasn’t the case? I am fully aware that aromanticism and asexuality are both spectrums— of course, aromantic and/or asexual people can enter those kinds of relationships. I’m not denying that and they belong in the community as much as anyone else on the spectrum.

But, the more I see the same line again and again and again, the more it feels like an excuse to just ship what you want.

Usually I don’t mind shipping? I’m often a firm believer in people shipping what they like as long as it’s harmless and they don’t go crazy over it. I also know for a fact that Viv doesn’t have a problem with people shipping her characters. They are fictional, after all.

But in this case, people are ignoring the very thing that makes Alastor a part of the aroace community! People are ignoring his lack of romantic or sexual attraction!

Is this not the same as changing a gay character’s orientation to suit a straight ship? If not, how so? I’m told that we are a part of this community, so why aren’t we being treated like it? Why is it so hard to accept the people on the end of the spectrum who aren’t interested?

Something I’ve been noticing throughout my life is that society has not exactly progressed very much on the idea of accepting asexual or aromantic identities. Maybe we have, a little, since the old days— but hell, people in “the old days”, which in truth wasn’t very long ago, believed that asexuality was a medical condition to be “fixed” by taking the right medication or having sex. That’s a pretty low bar to clear. And on the romance side, you’re seen as a “late bloomer” or “boring” if you don’t express interest. These days, being friends with someone is treated like a gateway to them possibly becoming a lover. Not getting married, not going on dates, not wanting a partner— it’s all treated like a crime when it’s not.

Maybe I’m selfish, or sensitive, or I’m butthurt over nothing, or I’m making it all about me. Maybe I’m gatekeeping or whatever the term is. But please, please, please, I just want an aroace character like me who simply is not interested in sex or romance.

And I want fandom to respect that. I admire the creations that fans make— the art, the animatics, the writing and the character analysis. And I want people to keep creating because creation is indeed a beautiful thing.

But I really would like people to treat aroace identities like they’re important. Like it’s more than just a spectrum to get wiggle room to wrangle in another ship.

#aromantism #aromantic #aroace #asexual #hazbin hotel #alastor #hazbin alastor #lgbtqia #alastor aroace #PLEASE i just want people to LEAVE HIM ALONE #“but it’s a spectrum” STOP USING IT AS AN EXCUSE #RESPECT AROACE PEOPLE WITH ZERO INTEREST IN ROMACE AND SEX #let us have this #we barely get anything as it is #but just to clarify i don’t believe that most people are being intentionally rude about it #nor am i discouraging people from creating fan content because it is FAN CONTENT and you can express yourself #i just would like people to understand a little more that #yes it is a spectrum and it covers an extremely wide range of orientations #yes ANYONE who identities as someone on the spectrum is completely valid #if you wanna argue with that i am showing you the door and kicking your sorry aphobic ass out #my point is that the spectrum is not a loophole. it is not an excuse and it is NOT okay to just use it willy nilly for your convenience

[knifearo]

ultimately when it comes to shipping and fandom space treatment of aspec characters i just don't accept "aro/ace people can still date/have sex" as an answer from nonaspecs. like yeah. mhm. okay. now i think we both know that you're not saying that out of real interest in the diversity of aspec experiences. so you can turn in your seventeen-page essay on why and how you plan to examine this character's aspec identity within the context of a romantic or sexual relationship complete with evidence from canon and peer reviews from multiple aspec people within the next week or i'm putting you in the pit from the edgar allen poe story

#you know. the one with the pendulum #'hey. why are you as an allo person shipping this aspec character like this' #'oh aspec people can still date/have sex!' #'yeah. now can you answer the question that i actually asked you' #like goddamn just say you don't care they're aspec and you want to fulfill a sexual/romantic fantasy with them. that's Fine #it like. sucks. for sure. lotta aspec people will be unhappy with you. but everyone is entitled to their own wants and experiences. #but i'd prefer you just be honest with it rather than using our community's conversation points as retroactive justification #and ONCE AGAIN. you guys are real fucking cavalier with this shit and it shows a real fundamental lack of respect for aspecs #when most of you would NEVER ship a canonically gay character with the 'other' gender. cause again. it would suck. #you can do it. nobody's Stopping you. but it would suck. #and we understand that putting a queer character in situations that erase that queerness is shitty! until it comes to aspec characters! #and whoa... there it is again... people don't consider aspec identities to be queer... crazy how it always comes back to that #anyway. you all know what i'm talking about. have seen many posts about this lately #it is [ long sigh ] unfortunately a very hot button issue with the advent lately of alastor hazbinhotel #which. again. god i wish there were other canon aspec characters to be having this conversation about. #but we'll have to do our best with what we have #aromantic #aromanticism #arospec #aroace #talking #aspec #asexual #asexuality

[fastidious-and-a-mess]

guys can we PLEASE stop shipping riz w people. honestly at this point i kind of don’t even care if you yourself are also acespec/arospec/aspec.

yes, aspec people can be in relationships, etc etc, but riz specifically has expressed over and over and over again that that is something he personally has absolutely zero interest in.

he’s not just canonically aroace, he also canonically does not want a relationship.

“aroace people can be happy in romantic/sexual/queerplatonic relationships” is a true statement. “people who do not want to be in any kind of monogamous committed relationship can be happy in a monogamous committed relationship” is quite a bit harder to argue.

i’m just so sick of it. i’m glad we all understand that there’s nuance to aspec identities, and everyone’s expressions of and experiences with their own aspec identities are going to be different and personal.

like, it’s not even just about the asexual/aromantic aspect anymore. it’s also just refusing to let him not want to be in a relationship. why are so many people so resistant to the idea that he does not want to be in a relationship. like genuinely, why can you not accept that there are people who just don’t want that. who would just be unhappy in a relationship. why can’t you wrap your head around the idea that wanting a relationship is not a thing that everyone secretly wants. like, No, he hasn’t just not “met the right person” yet. because there is no right person. because he’s simply not interested.

this post is kind of rambly and not as effectively phrased as it could be i think but idc.

TL;DR: riz being aroace is not the only reason to not ship him. he also, explicitly and repeatedly, has stated he does not want to be in a relationship. “aspec people can be in relationships” is completely irrelevant because regardless riz simply does not want a relationship. please just respect thag.

edit: plz don’t like this is u wont rb. i won’t guilt you into rbing, it’s ur blog i’m not ur dad do what u want etc etc. it’s just irritating for me personally to see ppl interacting w this but not willing to actually put it on their blogs.

#sorry to keep this ‘’’’’’’ discoure ‘’’’’’’ alive #im just sooooo tired #i just don’t understand how so many people can see this character have such a significant part of characterization be about how #he does not want to be in a Relationship at all and how that affects him and his relationships with the people in his life #and then go ‘what if he was in a Relationship with his best friend’ #like come on!! #i don’t care how you define the Relationship. i don’t care about your own personal identity. #i don’t care about whatever reasons you come up with the justify why it’s actually totally fine #the bottom line is riz does not want that for himself and you’re deciding that that’s not worth respecting #sorry fabriz enjoyers but i wish you guys would just stfu #dimension 20 #fantasy high #riz gukgak #edit continued: ik it’s all just online fandom stuff. but it’s also representative of a larger issue #of people just being incapable of comprehending that some people don’t want relationships. or even past that; that some people actively want #to Not be in relationships. it’s people coming into contact with a person (character) like that and believing that that just can’t be true #that that person Must secretly actually want a relationship. even if they don’t know it. they just haven’t met the right person yet. etc etc #if you can’t give up outting riz in any kind of relationship then you cannot accept that some people really truly do not want relationships #that’s FINE. PLEASE just respect that

[pinkishhologram]

those poorly written tacked-on het crushes are sooo much nicer when you read them in a dykebreaking/acebreaking perspective.

oh, that girl had so much chemistry with the other female lead, but got a cookie-cutter boyfriend at the last minute to enforce heteronormative standards? noo, don't worry! that boyfriend just taught her the joys of Men, and fixed her silly delusions <3

that girl could be easily read as aro/ace and the presence of a male love interest only seems to invalidate her whole arc and make her seem kind of bland? don't be silly! he just taught her that she needs a Man to survive, and helped her overcome her fear of real love.

that girl who loses all her personality and development to become the male lead's side piece should be a role model! who needs representation when you can have inspiration like this?

#obligatory i am an aro bisexual woman and this is all fantasy #.....unless someone wants to come into my asks and indoctrinate me for real? haha jkjk..... #unless...😳 #orientation play #dykebreaking #acebreaking #orientation play with aro ppl is sooo underrated #like i just want a good Man to teach me what real Love is! #but people GOTTA keep 'respecting my identity' and 'being decent people' #sighhhhh #someone bully me into changing my mind?

[redysetdare]

Some of you will see a character that is actively repulsed by romance/sex and heavily non-partner coded (sometimes they even actively just say that they do not want a relationship!) and y'all will still respond with "But aros/aces can still date and have sex!!" like okay bud it'd be so much easier for you to say you don't respect repulsed and non-partnering aros and aces. stop beating around the bush trying to pretend to be oh so supportive when you obviously feel uncomfortable about our existence even in fiction.

#text #aro #ace #aromantic #asexual #aroace #romance repulsed #sex repulsed #non-partnering #non partnering #nonpartnering #just admit that you don't respect repulsed and non-partnering identities buddy it'll be so much easier to block u that way #like do you realize how stupid you sound when you guys do this sort of thing? #all for what? shipping??? because being aphobic is fun to you??? because you dont like looking critically at your biases??? #because you're so set on believing your a good person that challenging that to actually be one is way too hard and uncomfortable for you? #'people can ship what they want' yeah and people can judge you for it too #people can judge who you are and if they trust or like you based off your actions #shocking isn't it? #some of y'all sound like children going “but but but if i cant ignore their identity then how will i have fun” like grow tf up #you have a million other characters that you can play with in the way you like #not having access to one is not going to kill you or ruin your life

[scribefindegil]

people will really look at a series with a two-book-long subplot about the protagonist being desperate for physical affection but unable to access it because the only option she feels is available to her is sexual which she doesn't want, which finally resolves with her friend starting to platonically share a bed with her in a relationship that everyone involved and their spaceship explicitly states on multiple occasions is not sexual . . .

and then go "okay but what if they had sex anyway?"

#i open the Radch ao3 tag #i hiss like an angry snake #i close the Radch ao3 tag #some people are just so utterly incapable of handling a character who doesn't want sex #i know i know i shouldn't be surprised but it would be so nice if people respected an ace character's identity just ONCE #(also the word 'friend' is. insufficient. to describe Seivarden and Breq's whole Thing #but if i tried to explain it would take over the whole post) #ace stuff

[androgynouspenguinexpert]

congruent of d'deridahn

#redacted audio #redacted asmr #redactedverse #art #illustration #redacted vega #redacted carpe deus #carpe deus #back to factory settings baby!!!!!!!! #yall are in my house now so im telling you about design choices #vega being first out the oven makes him a very special boy so he gets white horns instead of red #his hair is white and longer because he hasnt had the chance to learn what a haircut is yet #i just think its neat when inhuman 'holy' characters have white as a key colour #his eyes are red like d'deridahn's and they eventually fade to gold #in my heart all d(a)emons started with solid scleras and irises in their respective colour #but the more they embraced (*) humanity the more their eyes shifted to match human ones #par exemple if vega didnt have a death grip on his identity his eyes would probably be normal golden brown ones #his scars (which he kept to be scary and unsettle people because he could 100% just heal them) are gone #and he's got d'deridahn's face markings #huh? #oh yeah the bathroom is upstairs and to the left

[artheresy]

An argument over whether or not Dan Heng is Dan Feng seems to have begun getting sparked again in certain parts of the Fandom and it does nothing but hurt my head to no end

Both sides cherrypicking or treating it like a strange situation, making false equivalents. "Yknow governments don't consider people who've lost their memories to be separate people" that's a flawed argument to use in favorite of DH = DF because it's not just he lost his memories. He literally grew up, experienced his own childhood, had a whole identity cultivated based on those experiences and that life and continues to live his own life. To treat the situation like it's just him getting a bit of amnesia is wild to me

But also I hate when people continue to insist he's running from Dan Feng and his past and how he's miserable and shouldn't ever confront the past and deal with it as if his and Blade's whole stories aren't centered around rebirth and karma, paying for your past life's karma. He needed to confront the past to ensure a freer future! He literally has!! And he will continue to do so because he realizes this, DH isn't dumb and he's grown since we first saw him. He understands

But yeah uh I'm so tired

This whole thing feels very Ship of Theseus. What makes the ship what it is, the physical aspects of its planks, its sailing history, or both?

For him, the question is what makes someone who they are? Is it the body that makes them up and any inherent genetic factors (like traits)? Is it their experiences, how they've grown up, and the identity they've developed in that time? Or is it both factors mixed together?

Personally in the case of Dan Heng, I think it's both! Yeah he has a lot of traits from Dan Feng. There's a lot inherently there. But we can't disregard his own experiences and the identity that has formed based on his history and what he's seen.

Again I can't stress this enough... It is a false equivalent to compare him to people who lose their memories or get amnesia, he didn't just lose those memories. He started life from the beginning, a whole different kind of life. And even then, the amnesia topic comes with its own debates. Isn't there a whole other thought experiment regarding someone put to trial who ends up with amnesia and what their verdict should be?

I guess in the end, it's all up to people's own philosophical beliefs after what constitutes a person. My personal belief that DH and DF will always be connect but the separation between them is also meaningful is something based on my own ideas of what consisitutes a person and their individual identity, similar situation with how I see Rukkhadevata and Nahida as connected but still not the same person exactly. At the end of the day again, it's personal beliefs

But what I can't stand and can't stand by, is someone acting all high and mighty like they're perfectly right and everyone else is wrong, especially when they're cherrypicking or not holding all their evidence to the same standard. According to some ppl, apparently it's better in the CN fandom where instead of treating it like "I'm right you're wrong" people have divided themselves into "DF and DH one person" and "DF and DH two people" groups and most importantly of all, they treat both like theories and just keep to their space and tag which they believe when it's relevant. Why can't we just do that? Why can't we follow in their footsteps instead of bringing up this argument every so often with the same tired flaws from both sides?

#Lore discussion in this community can be so tiring #I wish more people would be open to their viewpoint being challenged instead of believing they can never ever be wrong #And seeing people throw out wild accusations #Like someone saying people are transphobic if they believe dh is df like what? #I get it if you identity with dh and read it as a trans narrative personally even if I dont #Doesn't mean you can call people transphobic over it #I dunno I'm tired #Everything I see this topic I get mad #“He says you're my past in the ichor of two dragons!!” #He also says right after “But you won't follow me into my future” so your point is? #Additionally if we're being 100% real that animation feels like it's less about his rejection and eventual acceptance of DF specifically #It feels more so like his rejection of the role of Imbibitor Lunae given what I've talked about about the DF being there would never say #Any of those things how it's based on his biased view of him and is a projection of things he was told growing up likely #So I'm tired #One of the only good arguments I've ever seen to say DH is DF is in regards to how he clings to DF's old stuff #I have things to say about it personally #But it's a MILES better argument than some of the other ones I've seen and even then my arguments against it would still be an up for #Interpretation kind of thing like the initial argument rather than pointing out someone is looking at the full picture #Again I respect how people see it! Believe what you want to believe about it again it's all about our own perspectives #Just don't be a dick to people on either side if you don't agree with them #Dan heng #Dan feng #Hsr #Honkai star rail

[imissthembutitwasntadisaster]

.

#My issue with side y discourse generally is when they say you shouldn't use queer lables because your identity in Christ should be first. #like yes it should but if you're also comfortable calling someone straight then you're being a hypocrite #because that is an identical kind of lable #and same with other labels! are you comfortable calling yourself your ethnicity? your age? your gender? your job title? #then you're doing the exact same thing and in none of those cases is it considered that you're not putting your identity in Christ first #if I said I'm british people wouldn't be like ooh you're prioritising being British above God #like I COULD but not by using the label itself #I'm British. I'm female. I'm 21. I'm straight. #vs I'm british. I'm female. I'm 21. I'm bisexual. #I think if people have an issue with the latter but not the former that logic just doesn't follow through #and i know some people are more comfortable saying SSA #which I totally respect #but a. I personally am not because it feels stigmatizing and b. that's still a label in the same way #idk man I just don't get this specific approach. #also I know that's not all side y. but it defo is some of them!!!

[eggbagelz]

Me: hey based off what hes told us abt his experiences and what he refers to himself as and how he says he feels alienated from every community he's part of it'd be better and more respectful to call pete wentz mixed than to decide what racial group he Belongs to for him

Americans who think the word mixed is a slur: into the pit with you

#the man has only ever referred to himself as mixed and i feel like ppl need to start to respect that #like hes spoken multiple times abt how he doesnt feel like he belongs anywhere racially speaking but everyones just like #steamrolling over that bc apparently its fine to dictate a multiracial person's identity based off what you want #also im aware im going to get in a Ton of trouble for this but i really honestly dont care like im tired of people #ignoring mixedness bc they cant seem to wrap their heads around the fact that some people are obviously #not comfortable with being labeled as a certain race [pete included] like the word mixed exsists for a reason #pete wentz #chattering

[manichewitz]

an unfortunately really really frustrating part about seeing different companies/organisations/etc try to be more trans inclusive is that even if they're actually doing a great job, its fucking depressing to see how people need to be formally trained on how to treat me with respect. i'm reading this article right now about how theatre companies are trying to be trans-friendly and how people actually needed to like. take classes and talk to experts and get all this gender stuff explained to them in order to have an accepting workplace, meanwhile it's all things that i know about because they are the most basic aspects of my everyday life. its so fucking tiring

#its just depressing that people need to be taught how to respect me bc they wouldn't just know how to do that already #im just like damn...ik we're marginalised but we're really *that* marginalised? ppl dont even know how to be polite to us?? #anyways trans ppl that work in gender education for cis people are stronger than the us marines #you could not pay me enough to explain pronouns or gender identity to full grown adults i just can't do it #like someone needs to but god it wont be me #.txt #alex talks #lgbtq #trans #trans tag #representation #transmasc #transfem #theatre #theater #queer #queer tag #musical theater

[redysetdare]

you owe every aroace person $100 for every time you spout out the halfhearted excuse of "Aroace people can still date/have sex" when criticized for your handling of shipping an aroace character.

#text #aro #ace #aromantic #asexual #aroace #if i have to hear an alloallo person say that 1 more time I'll fucking explode their heads off #like bro just say you don respect aroace people and our identities it's 10x easier for the both of us

[tiktaalic]

What did Sarah Z do ?

tbc my beef w her is not a beef its just a matter of personal preference n not liking the two (2) vids ive seen from her . i dont like that she does tumblr summaries with the vibe of and aren't these people crazy. arent these people cringe. couldnt be me. i just have a tumblr accoutn and rubber neck them. i remember her johnlock vid got flack from ppl involved in tjlc for being inaccurate. and i remember a lot of ppl i follow preemptively blocking her when she announced she was making a destiel vid based on the way she would yoink tumblr posts for her vid without asking you if it was ok to like. put your post on blast to 2 million views while she implied it was embarrassing and cringe. um and then the destiel vid she made didn't live up to my standards of accuracy and completeness . in my memory she actively reached out to someone for their recollection of johnlock the cultural moment and did no such thing for destiel just based it on what was hitting the top posts part of the destiel tag in november of 2020. thats all. went back to look for my posts abt it at the time and here's one sample.

havent finished the vid yet but i think there are more points to be made about parasocialism – she mentions that it was easy for fans to interact with creators/cast because of the simultaneous rise of social media/conventions/the cultural shift where shipping wasn’t taboo, but i think there’s definitely something to be said about how the creators were a large part of encouraging that. they were using fan inserts back in season 4. they Knew what was going on in fan spaces to the point where they referenced names of real bnfs, and they made the decision to goad and wink and play it up instead of adhering to the norm of looking the other way. like. there is a parasocialism there to be sure, but no one MADE them say the words wincest and destiel and sastiel on the show. creators/writers played a fairly significant part in crafting the fan environment that was crafted. imo

and now im mad again lmao bc you cannot talk about fans being parasocial and then not say and isn't it FUCKED that eric kripke name dropped real forum mods and forum members as stupid and cringe in his television show. oh and she was a chronic name searcher. she was always reblogging untagged posts abt her to argue with somebody. and they werent like. [accusation] [response saying that's not true] it was like. harmless disagreement. sarah getting their ass with her much larger following, but to be clear my main gripe is i think i know more about destiel than you do genius. which is petty but arguably valid criticism of someone doing a literal destiel retrospective and mocking it the whole time

#i saw a tweet the other day post hbomb that was like. #yeah internet historian made a shitty dashcon video where he made fun of sjws and didnt respect peoples identities and was generally shitty #but sarah's dashcon vid takes the exact same tone she just DOES believe in neopronouns. #which i cant speak to bc i havent watched it. but i believe it based on what i have seen. #ask #anonymous

[femmeidiot]

the amount of people who are so so so so fucking stupid in the commentary under my post about how people don't respect amab nonbinary people is honestly not surprising but it is exhasuting can yall shut the fuck up for 5 minutes and care about someone other than yourself? Thanks!

#They're in there assuming things about my identity that are incorrect saying afab nonbinary people shouldn't have been mentioned in the post #bitch afab nonbinary people are in that post because they are in some cases the people who didn't respect the nonbinary identities of amab #nonbinary people they're also like that's just adding to the binary system... I'm sorry no it's an acknowledgement of how people use the #Binary gender system to discriminate against certain subsets of nonbinary identities that don't fit into a certain box of what is expected #of nonbinary identities #Nowhere in the post does it say all afab nonbinary identities are respected and no amab nonbinary identities are respected #you can't find that in the post cause it's not there even if you have no reading comprehension skills and think it is there #everyone shut the the fuck up!!!!!

[givemewallywestorgivemedeath]

Feeling very violent rn so here's a very controversial opinion:

Everything after season one of Young Justice sucked.

Look, I know I'm obsessed with the show but that doesn't mean it's good, it means that I'm too deep into it at this point to get out. There are good moments within the other seasons but in general? They were not good.

I'm sorry. I understand that they wanted to be creative and have a neat narrative and deep lore and all that. And they do! The narrative and lore is extremely deep.

But the plot? The characters??

Season one was an actual functional show that balanced character development, plot and dialogue with world building, lore and messaging.

The other seasons do not do that.

Season two bounced back and forth between like 16 characters. We got some development for some characters but even that was minimal compared to the character development in S1. And this isn't me complaining that the og group wasn't in S2 enough. That's not my issue. I would've loved to focus on a new group and I think that Jaime, Bart, Ed and Gar would've been super cool to focus on. I loved what character development they did have and I craved more.

But the problem? The problem is when you have 16 fucking characters that you are trying to develop and shove into a coherent plot and have actual meaningful scenes. There just wasn't enough focus on S2. Imo, S2 was meh because the characters got left by the wayside. The plot, dialogue, world building, lore and messaging was fine, there just seemed to be a lack of heart/warmth in the show because of the characters. It's hard to get invested.

Then holy shit. S3 introduced more characters. And the plot got more contrived and 'big picture' to the point that it started to abstract. It felt like nothing mattered. There were no stakes, you were just watching things happen. There was 50 fucking things happening an episode and 80% of it was lore/world building. It felt like I was studying for a fictional history exam.

I'm pretty sure the main character in S3 was earth 16. Just the entire universe. Because goddamn. We checked in on almost every living being and EVERYTHING was a plot point. Most of it wasn't even relevant to anything happening in the season. Man it was.... it was bad.

And at that point it just wasn't enjoyable at all to watch. I probably should've stopped watching but at that point the sunk cost fallacy had already kicked in. I knew it could be good. Maybe it could be good again. And people were constantly praising it as cinematic genius so I was like 'okay well maybe I'm missing the point? Maybe you aren't supposed to enjoy shows? Maybe this is fine?'

But season four broke me.

The creators heard that people were frustrated by the lack of character focus and the episodes following 72 characters and the episodes switching between 50 different subplots every episode and their solution? Their solution was to take allllllll the different unconnected plots and, instead of evenly spreading them throughout the season, jam them all into 'arcs'. So you had a bunch of mini seasons consisting of 3-5 episodes dedicated to a cast of ~5-8 characters (some of them new). And each of these episodes had unconnected a plots, b plots and c plots.

THAT IS NOT A SOLUTION

Holy shit that is not a solution.

Not to mention the overarching plot of the season, in which we had no fucking clue what was happening until the final episodes where everything became a speedrun to wrap everything up. We literally had no idea what the main plot was until it was ending.

Good god it was bad. It's bad writing!

I know people liked it and good for them. You should like what you like and you don't have to justify it. But for me it was insanity. I'm sorry I actually don't want a season long subplot where Beast Boy is depressed and sleeps all day. I would be cool with it if it had anything to do with the larger story but, surprisingly, spending five minutes watching Beast Boy sleep every episode didn't make for compelling storytelling.

I'm still not over how we didn't even know who the main villain was until the end of the season. And then all of a sudden he does a villain monologue to tell everyone his evil plan and his motives. Super cool actually. I love it when I have no idea what the stakes are for the majority of a show. It's incredibly good storytelling when you leave the audience in the dark about a major player in the plot for all of the plot. And then doing an info dump evil monologue in the final episodes to rush through the explanation??? Fucking fantastic and not a sign of terrible pacing at all.

I'm just so frustrated. The show isn't about being a show anymore. The show is an entire cinematic universe shoved into 20 something episodes. It's desperate to tell every single story at once, audience, pacing and good writing be damned.

I'm so tired of the constant praising of Greg. His whole 'i don't write endings because life doesn't have endings' and 'i don't write cliffhangers, I just leave things open ended' thing is pretentious bullshit. I'm tired of pretending it's not. A good story has an ending. Stories are not life! Some of the best shows I've ever watched had planned endings. And oh my god. The cliffhanger thing... that's just semantics my guy. Greg you write cliffhangers. You can insist they aren't but I'm going to call a spade a spade.

It's also.... I'm fine with explaining things, in fact I love it because it's an excuse to talk about the stuff I love, and I have a fairly decent knowledge of comic book lore. So, I could not only understand what was happening in the show but I was also super enthusiastic about explaining it to people. But hey Greg? Hey buddy? If 90% of your audience doesn't know what the fuck is going on and needs to be familiar with super specific obscure comic characters from the 70's then you might have a problem.

I think I realized halfway through s4 that the most enjoyment I got from an episode was when an obscure comic character would cameo in it. But then I realized that a) they generally weren't explained at all and b) 50% of the time they weren't just hanging out in the background and they were vital to the plot. So to understand who the fuck they were and what the fuck was happening you had to be familiar with... well all of DC comics actually.

Anyway this rant is getting long and unhinged and I don't think there's a point so I'm going to cut myself off even though I have so much more to say on the topic. I think my general point is just that I didn't enjoy watching the later seasons and it's chill if you did and we should all respect each other's opinions ✌️

#rant #oh also the messaging sucked #the messages itself were fine. like 'you should go to therapy if you are depressed' and 'respect people's religions' and #'figuring out your gender/sexual identity is chill af' #those are great messages. the content is great and i don't disagree #BUT HOLY FUCK #yo Zatara ranting about his religion to Fate for 15 minutes is not how you get a message across #messages are supposed to be like themes and subtle points of the narrative #it's not supposed to be a fucking psa where the characters just talk for half the episode and say the message verbatim to the audience #itd be like if in season one M'gann stood up and spent ten minutes talking about the damaging psychological effects of body image issues #and everyone else just sat there and nothing happened and M'gann just kinda spoke about it #or if Artemis was just like 'im going to do a presentation on why child abuse is bad' #its just. thats not. thats not how messages in a plot work #but they didn't develop the characters enough. so instead of s1 where the messages were blatantly obvious #we just had side character zatara who we know nothing about talk about religion like he was doing a PSA for kindergartners #because we don't know his character and he had zero focus so that was literally the only way to get the message across #and im sorry but that's bad writing. if you are sacrificing character plot and narrative for a message then maybe scrap the message #or you know actually have a developed character do the message. like write the message through a developed character so it doesn't #need to be spoonfed to the audience like we're five year olds learning different shapes from a teacher

[stardust-falling]

There is never an excuse to not use someone’s preferred name and pronouns. Unless they’re closeted around some people and ask you not to, there is literally no good reason to not just refer to them how they want to be. No one is being protected when you intentionally misgender a trans person, or when you insist on using a deadname— even if you “don’t agree” with the existence of trans people, or think that gender identity shouldn’t be treated the way it is in whatever way. You’re not standing up for yourself and you’re not standing up for others— you’re just being an asshole.

If your friend’s legal name was Katherine, and she told you “please don’t call me Katherine, I have negative associations with that name, call me Kathy instead,” then would you still insist on calling her Katherine because you don’t think it makes sense to use another name, even though you know it causes her significant emotional distress?

Intentionally deadnaming and misgendering someone because “it doesn’t make sense” or “you don’t agree” makes you just as much of an asshole as that. Changing the language you use to refer to someone hurts no one and helps them immensely. Intentionally misgendering someone just makes you look like an asshole and, quite frankly, stupid as well.

If you want to have an actual debate about the ethics of trans healthcare or whatever, the least you can do is actually respect your opponents. Fundamentally, respect for one another is key to proper debating. But no, you don’t want a debate, you just want to beat people down.

#caught a glimpse of some terf bs #like #ffs you can argue all you want about things you feel are genuinely a threat to your safety #like I get that!! a lot of those thoughts and fears are coming from trauma!! #and it’s not easy to unlearn! #I would be a lot more sympathetic though if there wasn’t the constant use of dehumanizing language and blatant lack of care #but well that’s just how it is #anyway even if there WAS a legitimate concern #refusing to refer to someone the way they’re comfortable with doesn’t have anything to do with it #even if there IS concern to be had over puberty blockers/HRT for minors/etc #misgendering a trans kid isn’t protecting them #even if said kid DOES decide they’re cis later on doesn’t make it okay to refuse to acknowledge their current identity #and if you want to claim you speak for/care about those you see in your mind as ‘women’ (afab people overall) #then DON’T FURTHER ENDANGER TRANS MEN BY CALLING THEM WOMEN/BEHAVING THE SAME WAY AS THE ABUSIVE #TRANSPHOBIC FAMILY MEMBERS OR PEERS WHO DRIVE TRANS MEN TO SUICIDE!!! #respect people’s right to self determination #learn to treat trans people with respect (by referring to them the way they ask you to at the minimum) #THEN try having a debate #but it IS NOT A DEBATE if you’re just punching down #transgender #transphobia