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pikahlua · 3 years

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You’ve heard of ch. 322 spoilers translations; now introducing ch. 322 meta dissections!

I spared no expense. I have to explain to you so many things.

oh lawd he comin’

Tagged: Everyone who’s been asking how I feel about the apology.

Initial spoilers translations here.

Katsuki’s apology translations here.

I’ll be colloquializing the translations here.

Izuku’s art style is in a nebulous in-between state. Before now, the way he was drawn was indicative of the gap between him and the rest of the world, similar to how All Might is drawn outside the manga style of everyone else.

Here, Izuku is trying to come back to normal because he wants to, but he also feels he shouldn’t. The tendrils of Black Whip return to resemble his previous style.

But the Deku mask has been torn away. 1-A is trying to reach Izuku, to talk to him, but Izuku is still trying to hide. He’s toned black with white, shapeless eyes to the point of resembling a silhouette. He hasn’t fully formed as Izuku again yet.

Meanwhile, Katsuki stands in-frame, his reopened wound the focal center.

It’s a callback to this moment.

The last thing Izuku heard before going berserk was what Katsuki said to him. Katsuki has managed to return to this moment in order to continue what he was trying to say to Izuku back then.

And now’s the best time to do it, because Izuku is going to run away again if no one can reach his heart.

So he picks up right where he left off:

Do you remember what I said when I was stabbed by Shigaraki?

As Izuku says he doesn’t remember, the shadows from his tone disperse. He’s back to this moment:

Back to when he was too shocked to understand what Katsuki’s words to him were. When his pupils started to white out and disappear.

But Izuku’s eyes are still unseeing. So Katsuki’s speech takes him through their lives together, explaining his feelings throughout their entire relationship. He starts with their childhood.

“Don’t try to win by yourself.” And there’s more to add. My body moved on its own and I was stabbed…! So I felt like I needed to tell you something. I was always looking down on you...because you were quirkless. Even though I thought you should have been far behind me, I came to feel like you were far ahead of me. And I couldn’t stand it. I didn’t want to see it. I didn’t want to admit it.

First of all, this apology is starting out parallel to Endeavor’s. “I felt like I needed to tell you something.” This apology is prompted by a traumatic realization in a dire moment for Katsuki. Endeavor had a similar experience with Natsuo.

Katsuki and Endeavor are not the same person. Their characters and arcs are very different from each other’s, but they do share some parallels.

That’s because Endeavor’s apology to Natsuo was meant to be the lesson Katsuki took away from his work study at Endeavor’s agency. It’s the thing he’s missing on his path to become Number One.

Katsuki and Endeavor are not on the same path, obviously, because Katsuki has the exact opposite problem Endeavor has when it comes to his apology.

Izuku’s forgiveness could come too readily, could come before Katsuki properly atones.

Horikoshi tells us Katsuki’s atonement is happening by reopening Katsuki’s wound.

This is a symbolic moment. Katsuki is reopening old, unhealed wounds. He’s suffering the pain that resulted from his atoning step in chapter 285 of saving Izuku by sacrificing himself. He won’t allow the wound to close up without feeling it. He won’t deny his feelings like he did all their lives. He’s accepting his weaknesses.

And so finally, finally Katsuki expresses to Izuku how he really feels about him, how he always felt about him. Izuku never would have fathomed that Katsuki felt like Izuku was better than him. How could Izuku even consider that when Izuku never considers himself at all?

Remember Izuku’s reaction to Katsuki’s words in Deku vs. Kacchan, Part 2?

Izuku hears that Katsuki thought Izuku looked down on him, and his reaction is, “No, I didn’t look down on you. I looked up to you.” Izuku makes his own feelings clear.

But now, in Kamino, Izuku learns it’s not just that Katsuki misunderstood Izuku’s feelings. Now Izuku is learning he himself misunderstood Katsuki’s feelings. Katsuki actually thought Izuku was above him.

Keep that in mind for later. We’ll come back to it.

That’s why I wanted to keep you away, and I bullied you.

What’s important about this line is how it acknowledges the physical distance between them. Katsuki actively tried to keep Izuku at arm’s length. Izuku perceived it as Katsuki running far ahead of him, when Katsuki was really denying how it felt like he was trailing far behind Izuku.

By denying all that, I was trying to act like I was superior. I was always losing to you. Then, we entered UA...

They are shown in their middle school uniforms, because Katsuki’s referenced facade of superiority is from chapter 1.

You can see the physical distance between them is still large. Katsuki feels like he lost to Izuku that day, but he maintains his denial of Izuku’s potential, acting superior instead.

Then he moves on to his feelings in high school.

...and things never once went the way I wanted. It was just day after day of realizing your strengths and my own weaknesses.

And damn is he right! So much of the early chapters are dedicated to this observation. For some reason, these words particularly reminded me of the ride to the USJ...

...when suddenly Katsuki is the one getting picked on by the class. Izuku’s passion in their combat training actually endeared him to everyone, something Izuku has never experienced. Meanwhile, Katsuki suffers the consequences of his weaknesses.

And so each panel of this apology, showing how they’ve seen each other since childhood, addresses the hole that Izuku narrates about in Deku vs. Kacchan, Part 2.

“We’d never really talked things out” is a translation of:

本音で話あった事がない honne de hanashi atta koto ga nai “We’ve never had a talk about how we really feel.”

Just saying this won’t make things right, but it’s how I really feel, Izuku.

The keyword is honne, meaning “true intentions/feelings.” Katsuki uses the same word here. “Honne da.” “These are my true feelings.” We’ve only ever heard that word from Izuku narrating before. Yet here, Katsuki says it out loud, in front of the entire class.

For everything until now, I’m sorry.

All of it. Their childhood. Middle school. High school. Every misunderstanding. Every denial. Every lie.

Katsuki is a sincere person. He doesn’t like to lie. He had to fool himself out of understanding his own feelings for things to get to this point.

Katsuki bows lower than Izuku. He’s placed Izuku above him now.

And the pupils of Izuku’s eyes have fully returned. He can see again. He is no longer blinded by his fear, nor is he blind to Katsuki’s real feelings anymore.

I also have to point out the wet sidewalk rippling with raindrops. You know, like they’re standing in water, like in a pond or something.

“As for your path as the successor of One For All, there’s nothing wrong with the ideal All Might represents by itself. And yet now, you’re swaying on your feet. There are walls you can’t overcome with only your ideal of All Might. Whatever you cannot handle, we all will handle. In order to surpass the ideal of All Might, whether it’s you or the refugees at UA or the people of this city, without exception, we will save to win.“

What I love about this part is how Katsuki explicitly says “we,” but the way he says it does not necessarily exclude Izuku from the group. It could be read that Katsuki is speaking for class 1-A, that they will handle what Izuku cannot and protect Izuku and everyone else and win. It could also be read that Izuku is included in class 1-A for this statement.

And in that final sentence, the “we” is only implied. He could be talking about Izuku and himself as a team. He could be talking about just himself.

I think, given the invocation of “save to win” (not “win to save”), Katsuki is excluding Izuku here. I think he’s saying “this is my strength that is anything comparable to yours, and that strength is us, my team, class 1-A, whom I brought here to save you.”

Because Class 1-A is comparable to One For All.

So, it’s time to circle back to this.

Izuku hears that Katsuki thought Izuku looked down on him, and his reaction is, “No, I didn’t look down on you. I looked up to you.” Izuku makes his own feelings clear.

Izuku understands now. Katsuki is admitting he thought he was the one chasing after Izuku all this time. Katsuki was always hurt by how far behind Izuku he perceived himself to be. Now, Katsuki has finally caught up by cultivating a similarly strong power: teamwork.

And if Katsuki was always so hurt by how much better Izuku was than him, then...

Izuku realizes how Katsuki took everything he’s said while trying to run away.

For a long time, everyone...

“I said…‘you can’t keep up’…”

had always been ahead of me.

“‘You can’t keep up’ is such a cruel thing for me to say. I’m sorry--...”

Izuku thought everyone was ahead of him. Katsuki thought Izuku was the one who was ahead. That was the biggest misunderstanding of all between them.

Now Izuku understands. Katsuki has reached his heart. Katsuki has saved him.

Izuku is so distraught at how much his words must have hurt Katsuki that he loses the will to run. The epiphany is so emotional, he loses all remaining strength.

Katsuki, having finally been understood, also understands in return, and he rushes to catch Izuku and accept the answering apology.

Katsuki is no longer keeping Izuku at an arm’s length away.

Again, there are no pronouns in Katsuki’s response. It could be read as:

We understand.

Or it could be read as:

I understand.

Both work.

And not only does Katsuki understand the apology, that Izuku is sorry, that Izuku understands he hurt Katsuki...

He also understands when Izuku says, “What a cruel thing for me to say.”

Because Katsuki knows how it feels to say such cruel things and feel sorry for it.

#izuku midoriya #katsuki bakugou #bakudeku #meta #katsuki bakugo's guilt-complex emporium #izuku midoriya's market of trust issues #bnha 322 #mha 322 #mha spoilers #mha manga spoilers #my hero academia spoilers #my hero academia manga spoilers

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pikahlua · 3 years

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I think about this moment a lot. It fascinates me.

A big part of My Hero Academia is unraveling the mystery of Katsuki’s thoughts. Katsuki is such a compelling character because he provides a unique and meaningful perspective on the story that’s kept secret from the audience via Izuku’s unreliable narration and Katsuki’s tendency to not put his own thoughts into words.

This scene is All Might’s infamous “save to win, win to save,” advice. Here, All Might tells Katsuki that he and Izuku need to learn from each other, that each one has something the other doesn’t, something that’s necessary in order to become the best heroes they can be. As viewers, we hear what sounds like excellent, constructive, insightful advice that advances the narrative. It’s something that the story between Izuku and Katsuki has been naturally approaching.

If you are dependent on Izuku’s perspective, then Katsuki’s reaction in the above screenshots is anti-climactic, inspiring a sense of flat, exasperated humor. Katsuki is just being good ol’ obstinate, stubborn, petulant Katsuki. Katsuki just isn’t Katsuki if he isn’t being unnecessarily difficult.

But Izuku is an unreliable narrator.

Objectively speaking, All Might being a good teacher? That’s out of character, at least at this point in the story. We’ve just sat through flashbacks of other advice All Might has given Katsuki, highlighting how what sounded like decent advice somehow made everything worse. But it’s not spelled out for us what’s going on in Katsuki’s head. Why is All Might’s advice so terrible? Why does it upset Katsuki so much?

Katsuki believes he is weak. Katsuki has an inferiority complex.

All Might: You have all the abilities necessary to become a hero.

What Katsuki hears: You aren’t strong yet.

All Might: Level 1 power and Level 50 power can’t improve at the same rate.

What Katsuki hears: Yes, Izuku’s improving, and you’re not.

But then, All Might’s “save to win, win to save” advice should be welcomed by Katsuki, shouldn’t it? It’s actionable advice. All Might told him what he’s missing. Now he just needs to work on that, and he’ll be the best hero, even better than Izuku!

No.

Katsuki didn’t ask how he can surpass Izuku. He asked why All Might chose Izuku.

Their conversation basically boils down to this.

Katsuki: Why did you choose Deku?

All Might: Because he was weak, and you were strong.

Katsuki: But you were wrong. I’m weak. (Implied: Deku is the strong one now.)

All Might: You are strong, but not strong enough by yourself. In a sense, you are both weak and need to learn from each other.

Katsuki: So we’re both weak? That’s even worse.

Time and again, All Might fails to address Katsuki’s real concerns. Every piece of advice he gives is just more fuel for Katsuki’s insecurities, which the fight before this moment illustrates. A big part of the fight is about Katsuki trying to understand why Izuku was chosen based on his assumption that All Might judged Izuku as superior to Katsuki, as the stronger of the two.

Remember, Katsuki doesn’t have the full explanation about One For All yet. Based on the information he has, Katsuki only knows that All Might gave his power to Izuku. He implies he thinks All Might sought out All For One’s help to pass on his quirk, that “All Might knew the guy who could do it.” He doesn’t know One For All can pass on itself or that All Might was on a time limit. So from Katsuki’s perspective, either All Might risked getting help from a known villain for Izuku’s sake, or, maybe more likely, All Might was friends with AFO until AFO betrayed that trust. There’s even the potential that AFO betrayed All Might specifically when he decided Katsuki was an exploitable weakness and kidnapped him.

Katsuki’s presence on the battlefield inhibited All Might, and Katsuki couldn’t get out of the situation on his own. He was weak, and so he dragged All Might down. That’s why he accepted help to get out of there. Did AFO know that would happen, that Katsuki was as weak as that? Why wouldn’t AFO target Izuku, All Might’s successor? The only thing Katsuki could logically conclude is that Izuku is strong, and thus safe, while Katsuki is the exploitable weakness.

While fighting Izuku, Katsuki wonders “Why?” with each flashback he has of All Might’s past advice. That advice, paired with Katsuki’s insecurities about his weakness, implies what he’s been worrying about all this time: “Why can’t I improve? Why can’t I get stronger? Why did All Might see no potential in me?” Katsuki slaps away Izuku’s hand when offered help and shouts, “Why won’t you fight? What’s wrong with you?” From Katsuki’s perspective, it must be because Izuku is that strong and thinks Katsuki is so weak in comparison.

Katsuki expects Izuku to win the fight from the start. Katsuki just wants to find the answer to his question:

Why is Izuku strong while I am weak?

And yet, All Might’s answer, his advice of “save to win, win to save,” is the exact opposite thing Katsuki wants to hear:

Izuku is weak, too.

So, Katsuki tells Izuku, “Don’t lose.”

Before this moment, Katsuki assumes Izuku is safe. His idea of the ultimate hero is a hero who never loses. He thinks All Might got help from AFO for Izuku’s sake. Whether AFO betrayed All Might or All Might knew AFO was a villain all along, All Might isn’t worried about Izuku because he’s strong. There’s no way All Might would involve Izuku with a dangerous supervillain unless he thinks Izuku could handle it.

But if Izuku is actually weak, Katsuki could end up in the same position again. Katsuki is still an exploitable weakness not only for All Might but now also for Izuku.

I know plenty of people will want to extrapolate from here that Katsuki is worried about Izuku (and anything I could say about this is manga spoilers, so I won’t touch on that here). However, I think it would be a mistake to say his concern at this point is, “Izuku is weak, so I have to get strong to protect him.” Katsuki’s character arc up until this point in the story has focused mainly on his feelings regarding victimhood. I don’t think it’s a stretch for me to say one of his worst fears is being a victim, particularly as a means of getting to someone he cares about such as All Might (just look at his trauma over what happened with the sludge villain in middle school). After all, Katsuki believes All Might’s downfall could have been avoided if only he had been strong enough to not be victimized by AFO and the League of Villains.

So it’s not that Katsuki wants to protect Izuku; Katsuki doesn’t want to be the reason for Izuku’s downfall.

Katsuki promises to keep OFA a secret because, “It’s just too big a risk with too many drawbacks for me to spread this around.” The risk? Katsuki could be made a target again just by virtue of knowing about it. “There would be confusion about where the power is,” meaning people would attack Katsuki for that information assuming he either has OFA or knows who does. If the secret gets out, Katsuki becomes a weak point for All Might and Izuku. So he has to get stronger before that happens.

You can see when Katsuki bows his head in acceptance. He hasn’t heard what he wanted, but he accepts that he has to grow stronger in order to prepare for when the OFA secret gets out. He’ll follow All Might’s advice and do what he has to do to be ready, and he’ll hold Izuku to the same standard. When the time comes, Izuku cannot lose.

When Katsuki hears the full story about OFA, he says, “It doesn’t change what I have to do.” It doesn’t matter which of them is All Might’s successor. He has to surpass All Might, surpass Izuku, surpass One For All. He has to be the best. He can’t be the weak link again. He can’t be the reason they lose.

He’ll grow. He’ll get stronger. He’ll take All Might’s advice to heart and become the ultimate hero who wins and saves. He’s planning their victory strategy, and he’s making sure they’ll be ready.

If there’s one thing Katsuki’s a genius at, it’s victory.

#anime only friendly #katsuki bakugou #izuku midoriya #bakudeku #not shippy but like this is important to their relationship #deku vs kacchan 2 #all might #all for one #meta #deep dive #this is my interpretation of what's happening in this scene at least #katsuki bakugo's guilt-complex emporium #manga readers side-eye hawks in chapter 304 along with me #is katsuki about to get interrogated?#god i hope that turns out to be a spoiler

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pikahlua · 3 years

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Do you think Bkg is completly in the right when he said All Might and Deku shouldn't be together at all or does it stand more in a gray area? I have seen some people saying AM was enabling Dk's unhealthy behaviour and I don't really agree but I also see their point. I'm conflicted, so could u please give us some insight in the whole thing? Your analysis are very well explained so I wanted to know your insight

Well it's important to note how it’s not that Katsuki thinks All Might and Izuku should be kept apart--he thinks they shouldn't be together alone.

It’s also important to note that Katsuki isn’t the first person to point out the "madness” of Izuku and All Might.

(long post; image-heavy manga spoilers under the cut)

Nighteye

Aizawa

Recovery Girl

And Katsuki is correct. All Might has failed at every turn to talk Izuku out of his self-destruction.

All Might cannot provide Izuku with a balanced perspective.

A lot of people have talked about how Izuku in this latest arc has become something more like the victory-centric mindset of Katsuki from the early chapters, but actually what he has become is All Might, the symbol of peace.

It’s not that All Might has enabled unhealthy behavior; it’s that All Might has enabled the behavior of a “superhero,” as the Second OFA user puts it. But the standard of superhero All Might uses...is inhuman. Unrealistic. Hell, it’s a lie.

All Might may be a symbol, but he’s also a farcical one played by the quirkless Toshinori Yagi.

All Might is missing the same perspective about quirks that Izuku is missing. They are missing the perspective of quirks as liabilities, as dangerous to both victims and users that those with quirks get to learn as children, a perspective Katsuki was never able to impart onto Izuku in their youth.

And it’s all quite ironic, because if anyone represents “natural-born” heroic talent, it’s Katsuki Bakugou.

Katsuki wasn’t given his quirk and made to present himself as something he isn’t (even if...people have tried to force him to) like Izuku, and he wasn’t engineered to be a powerful hero like Shouto. He was just born this way entirely by chance, by luck. It’s who he is, his very nature.

And of course, that was something that left Katsuki without a certain perspective either. That left him just as imbalanced. And All Might was imbalanced in that same way. All Might is ridiculously competent to the point where he cannot relate with others, making him a terrible instructor when Izuku is learning how to use OFA.

And also, just like with Izuku, All Might was unable to talk Katsuki out of his egotism.

It’s only when Katsuki comes to understand Izuku’s perspective that he snaps out of that mindset.

So, of course, Katsuki’s perspective is just as instrumental in correcting Izuku’s current trajectory.

That’s a big part of why the narrative rewards Izuku for imitating Katsuki.

And I actually think this is the reason why Katsuki bats away All Might’s hand when All Might tries to comfort him with a hug in Deku vs. Kacchan, Part 2.

I think Katsuki wants the comfort but resents All Might for not giving Izuku the same, for not treating them both the same way. All Might can acknowledge Katsuki’s humanity, Katsuki’s weakness, but why can’t he do it for Izuku? Izuku can’t be “only a boy” once he becomes the next symbol of peace, not if he does it the same way All Might did.

That blindness of All Might’s is the source of Katsuki’s distrust in him. If Katsuki keeps Izuku at arm’s length for his inability to consider himself, Katsuki logically would do the same to All Might. Katsuki is worried about them both. He cares about them both.

We take Katsuki’s silence as a “yes” answer to All Might’s questions, but it feels like there’s something he’s not saying, like All Might’s assumptions may be a half-step off from the truth. I think it’s because Katsuki is realizing All Might lacks self-awareness as he says all these things.

Katsuki is testing the waters with All Might. All Might is Katsuki’s practice-run for when he makes his next attempt at beating his own perspective into Izuku’s head.

And on the meta level, what better way for Katsuki to surpass All Might than to tear down the man’s whole isolating Symbol of Peace concept?

#katsuki bakugou #izuku midoriya #bakudeku #not shippy but like this is important to their relationship #all might #toshinori yagi #mha spoilers #mha manga spoilers #my hero academia spoilers #my hero academia manga spoilers #izuku midoriya's market of trust issues #katsuki bakugo's guilt-complex emporium #soft feral gremlin son #meta #ask pika #anon ask

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pikahlua · 3 years

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Remember our discussion on how this scene is about Katsuki coming to terms with Izuku’s weaknesses, not his own?

Katsuki already acknowledged his own weaknesses after Deku vs Kacchan 1. He stopped looking down on his classmates a long time ago, and we know that. That’s how he’s able to defeat Monoma in the cavalry battle and Uraraka and Todoroki and everyone else in the tournament. His friendship with Kirishima is proof that he can build equal relationships with his classmates.

So do you really think this little kid is supposed to represent a younger Katsuki?

No. That kid is Izuku.

Katsuki‘s advice in this scene is heart-warming for the audience because he hasn’t put words to it before. It’s nice for him to say out loud something like this just to confirm that he knows this truth.

But his words here aren’t the character development he gained from Deku vs Kacchan 2. That part of Katsuki’s development is showcased through his actions, not his words.

Katsuki is reaching out instead of keeping to himself. Katsuki is speaking from the heart to earn trust. He’s trying to save people.

So how is that kid Izuku?

Well, why don’t you tell me what his quirk is.

Don’t know?

That’s because he never uses his quirk. We don’t even know if he has one.

All the kids in that class attack the remedial student heroes except this kid, who is somehow their leader. The kid even scoffs at the notion of violence when Katsuki suggests combat. All the other kids are down to fight heroes, but this kid acts like he’s better than all that.

Refusing to use his quirk? Avoiding direct combat? Looking down on everyone else?

Sounds an awful lot like what Katsuki accused of Izuku in Deku vs Kacchan 1.

That’s right, this kid is giving us Katsuki’s perspective on who Izuku is. So then, why would Katsuki want to tell Izuku, “If you keep looking down on everyone, then you won’t notice your own weaknesses”?

Because accepting weakness is how to get stronger.

Izuku can say as many times as he likes that he doesn’t look down on Katsuki, but why should Katsuki believe him? Izuku’s actions don’t always match his words.

Whose fault is it in the practical exam that the two are incapable of teamwork?

The anime cuts out this moment where Izuku realizes Katsuki somehow knows All Might’s weakness. From the beginning, Katsuki has the correct strategy for dealing with All Might, but Izuku doesn’t acknowledge it. Even worse, Izuku gives no good reason why they should run away. All he says is basically, “Kacchan, you can’t defeat All Might.”

And he’s wrong, as they go on to prove.

They’re not able to work as a team until Izuku admits his weakness, that he can’t think of a way to win. At the same time, he admits Katsuki’s strength, that Katsuki can think of a way to win.

Izuku does look down on Katsuki sometimes. The mistake Katsuki makes is assuming Izuku is doing so consciously, because Izuku never says the other part out loud, not in a way that acknowledges his admiration of Katsuki without looking down on him...

...until Deku vs Kacchan 2.

And suddenly Katsuki realizes Izuku has the same problem Katsuki himself once did: Izuku hasn’t noticed his own weaknesses.

If Deku vs Kacchan 1 teaches Katsuki how to acknowledge his own weaknesses, then Deku vs Kacchan 2 is when he learns to accept weakness, be it in himself or in others.

Going back to our discussion, I concluded with Katsuki’s strategy for victory:

[Katsuki] hasn’t heard what he wanted, but he accepts that he has to grow stronger in order to prepare for when the OFA secret gets out. He’ll follow All Might’s advice and do what he has to do to be ready, and he’ll hold Izuku to the same standard. When the time comes, Izuku cannot lose.

[...]

If there’s one thing Katsuki’s a genius at, it’s victory.

If Kastuki is a potential weakness for Izuku because he knows the secret of OFA, then anyone else who learns the secret could also become a weakness. Even if Katsuki becomes strong enough to take care of himself, Izuku is still vulnerable via All Might or anyone else who knows about OFA.

All Might was unable to protect Katsuki in the Kamino Ward arc, and that led to his downfall. If Katsuki wants to surpass All Might and Izuku, he has to make sure Izuku doesn’t meet the same end, and he has to do what All Might couldn’t.

Katsuki has to be strong enough to protect anyone else who could be used against Izuku.

(the last third of the post is under the cut due to manga spoilers)

And suddenly his teamwork skyrockets.

If he’s gotta protect everyone, he’s gotta be able to compensate for their weaknesses. And if he’s a potential weakness, he has to be able to let his own weaknesses be compensated for by his team. The only way to accomplish this is if everyone is aware of everyone else’s strengths and weaknesses. That takes trust.

So if Katsuki is going to make sure Izuku also gets stronger, then he’s got to get Izuku to notice what his weaknesses are. He needs to earn Izuku’s trust.

Izuku doesn’t know Katsuki is one of his weaknesses.

But Katsuki knows it, and he knows Izuku doesn’t.

Katsuki lightens Izuku’s load by looking out for everyone else, and this is why Katsuki works so well as Izuku’s weakness. He’s become the cornerstone of Izuku’s house of cards.

As much as he hates being a weakness, Katsuki can’t just make it stop by telling Izuku not to care. Izuku will keep on caring regardless. So instead Katsuki has to convince Izuku that Katsuki is stronger so Izuku will keep chasing after him. Izuku needs to believe Katsuki is stronger in order to get stronger himself. Katsuki needs Izuku to believe Katsuki can handle himself, that Izuku can trust him, so they can work as a team and compensate for each other’s weaknesses.

We get a rare glimpse inside Katsuki’s head in chapter 275. Out loud, Katsuki tries to convince Izuku that he’s still the stronger one, but on the inside Katsuki acknowledges how he’s barely keeping up. He’s got a lock on Izuku’s strengths and his own weaknesses. He’s just not convinced Izuku knows his own weaknesses or Katsuki’s strengths.

And he’s right.

Izuku does not acknowledge Katsuki’s point. Just like in the practical exam, he can’t think of a solution and fails to engage with Katsuki on the strategy. He doesn’t even try to use Katsuki as his teammate, even though he implored Katsuki to use him in the practical exam.

Because Izuku cannot trust Katsuki, Katsuki is forced to compensate for Izuku’s weakness by trading one for another.

And Izuku’s other weakness is exploited.

Katsuki chastises Izuku for trying to win on his own, spelling out Izuku’s weakness in plain terms. The question is, has Izuku acknowledged it? Has Izuku learned his lesson?

That remains to be seen.

(My money’s on no.)

#anime only friendly #katsuki bakugou #izuku midoriya #bakudeku #not shippy but like this is important to their relationship #meta #deep dive #deku vs kacchan 2 #katsuki is better at teamwork than izuku change my mind #katsuki bakugo's guilt-complex emporium #izuku midoriya's market of trust issues #character analysis

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pikahlua · 3 years

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What do u think Katsuki was thinking/ rationalizing when he suicide baited Izuku in the 1st chapter?

He didn't see his behavior towards Izuku pre knowing about OFA as bullying... But this should have been a line he knew not to cross right?

I seriously debated whether or not I should answer this question.

There is so much baggage for me to unpack because of the way it’s worded.

I’m not convinced this question was asked in (completely) good faith. It feels like the questioner may have determined this is a hard binary situation and is only concerned with which side of the binary I come down on.

This is a topic that has been discussed in excess by the fandom. Could I really have anything new to add to the discussion?

But you know what?

I do have something to say.

(Warning: Light manga spoilers near the end of this piece.)

(TRIGGER WARNING: This post contains discussion of suicide-related themes. If you find this topic uncomfortable, please exercise discretion before reading. If you are having suicidal thoughts, there are resources to help you. You may not know how to ask for help, and that’s okay. You don’t have to do it perfectly or on command, but please try to reach out however you can.)

I’m going to rearrange the question a bit and word some things differently just so that everything can be crystal clear. As a result, dear anon, please do not take my answers as directed at you. These are generalized comments for reference by anyone given the situation.

Let’s break it down:

For everyone’s information, you are referring to my discussion on Katsuki’s early mindset and behavior here.

The issue at hand:

Katsuki suggested that Izuku could become a hero if he took a dive off a roof.

1. Did Katsuki cross a line?

Yes.

2. Did he understand that he crossed a line?

Later? Yes, that same day one of his goons said so to his face. At the time he said it? That’s uncertain.

3. Should he have known better?

The short answer is yes. The long answer is nuanced and requires answering some other upcoming questions.

When he says it, he’s either just turned 14-years-old or is just about to turn 14-years-old. Is that an excuse? No. Is that relevant to the nuanced answer? Yes.

4. Why is Katsuki’s age relevant?

People bring up his age when discussing this question often. If you think this is a “boys will be boys” excuse to let Katsuki get away with his bullshit, you’re not understanding what people are talking about. It’s not Katsuki’s literal age that matters, it’s his moral and emotional development that matters. This isn’t tied to the number of years Katsuki has been alive, but it is tied to the typical timeline of the development of the human brain.

5. What does it mean that Katsuki should have known better?

Consider a two-year-old child. If you hear a two-year-old say, “Go kill yourself,” what would your reaction be? Probably something like, “Who taught this kid to say that?” Probably not something like, “This kid is a bad egg, a waste of human space, a horrible person destined to abuse others for the rest of their life.”

Babies learn by imitation. As children grow, they are shaped by the world around them via their parents, teachers, peers, and society-at-large.

So, if you hear a two-year-old goad someone to commit suicide and think that the child is parroting something previously heard, at what age would your opinion of that child change?

Katsuki is at the beginning of adolescence. He has just begun developing more complex abstract thinking and reasoning skills. Everyone’s development is different, so it stands to reason that Katsuki‘s progression to moral maturity has only just begun.

For this reason, I can understand if many adolescent readers/viewers hear Katsuki’s line and judge him based on their own current level of development rather than considering that Katsuki is at a different development level than they are.

Katsuki’s age is not an excuse; it’s a reference point.

Removing Katsuki from the picture, if I hear a 14-year-old say something like, “Kill yourself,” my thoughts about them would be:

“This poor child. They are clearly encountering more bad messages and influences in their life than good ones. Society has failed them. This child needs help.”

(This isn’t to ignore the victim. Of course, I would have thoughts for them as well. I’m just talking about the instigator at this time to stay concise.)

Circling back to the question at hand, society should have done more for Katsuki’s sake.

6. So then...Katsuki shouldn’t be held liable?

Hell no, he should. This is an opportunity for education. That’s the whole damn point. Katsuki can know better, so a decent authority figure should take action. Every second someone doesn’t step in, society is failing Katsuki.

7. If Katsuki should have known better, then how can he ever be a good person?

People 👏 aren’t 👏 inherently 👏 bad 👏 for 👏 making 👏 mistakes, 👏 even 👏 big 👏 ones. 👏

Especially if those mistakes result from social conditioning and ignorance. Those mistakes can be rectified and unlearned, particularly if the person in question is earnest about wanting to be better.

8. Isn’t that just making excuses for his behavior?

I made no excuses for actions. I only spoke of “inherent badness.”

If you think the only good people in this world are the ones born with a perfect understanding of moral systems and evaluations and never have to learn, then we’re all bad people and you’re just picking and choosing your favorites at this point.

If you think a person is inherently bad because of one single moment in their life, that they’re incapable of learning and improving and doing good in this world, then, well, here are my thoughts on you:

“This poor child. They are clearly encountering more bad messages and influences in their life than good ones. Society has failed them. This child needs help.”

9. I don’t like him.

Okay. I didn’t ask you to. You’re allowed to dislike him as much as I’m allowed to like him. Whether or not you or I like a character doesn’t have to be connected with whether or not that character is a “good person” by some arbitrary standard. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

10. He can’t be a good person until he apologizes to Izuku.

I think you missed the part about “inherent badness.” No one is inherently good or bad. People are merely moral agents. Actions are moral. If a person has a tendency to make a ton of immoral decisions, yeah, I’d want to stay away from them for obvious reasons, but that’s to do with the trends of their actions.

Also, a big part of the story is about Katsuki’s moral development, his atonement, and his apology. This is a fictional story. Part of the art is in how Horikoshi wants to depict that apology. There’s no need to rush it. It’ll happen in some form or another. Just you wait.

11. You’re rambling.

Oops. Back on topic!

12. What was going through Katsuki’s head when he told Izuku to dive off the roof?

I don’t know.

All I can speak to is the potential literary purpose and make my own guesses.

Meta time!

TRIGGER WARNING: Suicide should always be taken seriously. If you’re feeling trapped or lost or alone or hopeless, if you’re having suicidal ideation and don’t know what to do, there are resources to help you. You may not know how to ask for help, and that’s okay. You don’t have to do it perfectly or on command, but please try to reach out however you can. If you find the topic of suicide uncomfortable, please take this message as your final warning. If you’re ready for the discussion, read on.

Context: Suicide in Japan

First of all, it’s important to note before any discussion that Katsuki’s behavior in chapter 1 has every potential to read differently to a Japanese audience than a western one (or any other audience, for that matter).

Why do I say this? How is it possible for there to be a context in which Katsuki’s behavior is okay?

There isn’t. Those were two separate questions. I just want to highlight that there’s a difference between the ethics discussion (which I am no longer interested in, see all the answered questions above for that) and the literary discussion.

The context matters for understanding Katsuki’s behavior as a literary device.

I cannot give you the full context. Suicide in Japan is an extremely complex and nuanced topic, just as it is in the west. What I can point out are a few basics:

Suicide is a very narrow concept in the west. Western language (English specifically) and opinions about it are informed by centuries of religion and philosophy. To this day, it is not common to have much of a discussion about it outside of a small number of specific contexts. The west tends to think of suicide in purely moral terms. Suicide is considered a sin in Christianity (which is a horrifically reductive view of the problem). Suicide in many cases is considered an action and not a symptom, and there is a significant contemporary movement to change that trend for the sake of improving mental health.

Whereas there is really only one word for suicide in English (as opposed to phrases describing methods), there are many words for suicide in Japanese. This is similar to the many words for “love” in Greek that dissect the otherwise vague concept into more specific versions (i.e. familial love versus platonic love versus romantic love, etc.); Japanese has words for specific concepts of suicide that may not have much meaning or history in English. There are very few points of reference in western culture that give much meaning to Japanese concepts like “ritual suicide,” “honor suicide,” “parent-child suicide,” “love suicide,” and “internet group suicide,” to name some examples. With this sort of historical context, the Japanese public are generally considered fairly tolerant of suicide, in some cases even ascribing aesthetic appeal to it. Japan has a high suicide rate compared to similar countries, and there is a trend of treating suicide as a social issue (or issues) rather than a public health concern.

This context doesn’t make it morally permissible to tell someone to kill themselves, but it does affect the meaning behind the words. Words convey thoughts, and context can help you understand a character’s thoughts or an author’s intentions better.

Meta discussion

So with all that squared away, all that’s left is to take a dive (uh, pun not intended) into Katsuki’s head.

The roof line serves two purposes:

To depict Katsuki’s current level for his ability in rescue (hint: it’s level 0)

To illustrate Izuku’s mindset of not taking himself into account

With chapter 319, we now know for a fact Katsuki thinks Izuku is off in the head and has probably subconsciously felt that way ever since the river incident of their childhood. Katsuki likely didn’t think Izuku would do it when he said to dive off the roof. Did he make that determination consciously? I doubt it. But he’s right about that assumption.

It’s true that Izuku didn’t take the dive off the roof comment poorly in that he didn’t consider suicide. His reasoning is easy to gloss over because it sounds logical and rational. He thinks Katsuki was wrong to make the suggestion because, if Izuku had actually done it, it would affect Katsuki’s future as he instigated a suicide.

But that’s strange, because Izuku is no third party in this situation.

People (me included) point out that Izuku isn’t a victim because he doesn’t behave as one. He doesn’t see himself as one. And yet...he actually is a victim, technically speaking, even if he just didn’t perceive himself as one. His response to being told to kill himself is...to worry about the future prospects of the instigator. There are no initial thoughts of concern or comfort for himself, no feelings about his own well-being at all. That’s disconcerting. That’s the stuff that really bothers Katsuki, as we learn in chapter 284.

So when Katsuki says the line, he probably wants Izuku to fight back. He probably wants to trigger Izuku’s (terrifyingly lacking) survival instinct. We can infer this given Katsuki’s later comment of, “It pisses me off when he dreams like a little kid,” or something like that. Izuku doesn’t consider his own quirklessness a liability, just an obstacle to overcome. From Katsuki’s perspective, Izuku hasn’t learned what everyone else learns once they get their quirk (because Izuku never got one as a child). Izuku doesn’t understand the potential danger to himself and others that quirks pose because he doesn’t have one, he doesn’t have that reference point. Even Katsuki’s extreme language to instigate suicide and threat of fighting Izuku with his quirk immediately after doesn’t make Izuku consider that fact. Izuku has no fear for himself.

Katsuki’s goon points out that Katsuki went overboard, but that implies Katsuki has never said anything quite so harsh to Izuku before. It’s been a steady escalation to this point, with each lesson Katsuki has tried to impart on Izuku being lost (because he’s an inept teacher when it comes to Izuku). What the hell does Katsuki have to do to get the message through to Izuku?

That question isn’t rhetorical. We’re on chapter 319 and Izuku still doesn’t get it. Izuku still doesn’t take his own well-being into account.

From chapter 284:

How can Katsuki save Izuku from this mindset? He’s still working on that one.

Although, interestingly, chapter 319 just might be the beginning of the answer to this question.

#izuku midoriya #katsuki bakugou #bakudeku #not shippy but like this is important to their relationship #mha spoilers #mha manga spoilers #my hero academia spoilers #my hero academia manga spoilers #katsuki bakugo's guilt-complex emporium #meta #tw: suicide #ask pika #anon ask

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pikahlua · 3 years

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Katsuki Bakugou’s True Feelings: The Power of Friendship...as it beats your ass into the ground

It’s aaaaaaall coming together.

Back in the prophetic month of December, I wrote this little post about where I thought One For All’s progression was going. I spent literal hours making this hideous graphic just to help your eyes distinguish among 20 damn characters, because that’s how many Horikoshi decided to reel into this. Ugh. Anyways.

In this post, I described my slowly-forming theory about how Deku’s tendency to imitate his classmates to the point where One For All straight-up copies the quirks of some of his peers is a meta technique. I wanted to use that trend to make a prediction.

In essence, I theorized that OFA would come to resemble the entirety of Class 1-A, and that the hero Deku can coordinate his classmates as a team due to his proficiency with OFA whether or not he has OFA in the end.

It could use some updating now.

But the points I made about the little "narrative highlights” Deku has with each of his classmates? Well, I guess I wasn’t too far off (/lol jk...unless??).

When y’all asked me for my chapter 320 predictions, I was operating on the assumption that there are still a few more story arcs incoming. As such, I didn’t want to get my hopes up about Katsuki’s role, because I didn’t sense Deku vs Kacchan, Part 3 incoming.

I forgot Horikoshi likes to play his tropes straight sometimes, though.

Anyways, who wants to know what Katsuki’s gonna say to Izuku by the end of this arc?

Hero society and the bystander effect

Tomura Shigaraki’s major disillusionment with society stems from his experience with the bystander effect (look it up); people don’t act when they see someone in trouble because they assume a hero will take care of it. Society has become over-saturated with heroes, and those who don’t become heroes don’t feel compelled to behave as a hero might. They assume someone else will take care of the problem, and so they do nothing, leading to a mass of people just standing on watching as horrible things happen.

The story gives us the standard aspects of heroism, the pillars of rescue and victory that make up the symbol of peace and justice that is All Might.

But the story never says there are only two pillars.

The third pillar: Inspiration

Hero society is rotting. People are complacent and apathetic. What gets people to act?

Inspiration.

All Might inspired people. Izuku was inspired to save people with a smile. Katsuki was inspired to keep fighting no matter how bad things look. Shouto was inspired to embrace his identity to become whom he wants to become.

And it created a chain reaction.

Izuku inspired All Might to risk his life against the sludge villain and rescue both Izuku and Katsuki. Izuku inspired Shouto to embrace his fire quirk and begin the process of reconciling with his past. Izuku inspired Kirishima to become a hero who protects others and live a life of no regrets. I could go on with other characters, but the list of inspiring heroes is very long for this series.

Just cap it off with how Aizawa describes Izuku’s and Katsuki’s effect on the class’ morale, how their presence raises the bar, how their passion spreads to the entire class.

Maybe I’m starting to glean what Horikoshi’s solution is to the hero society problem.

Individual versus Group

My Hero Academia is inspired by comics and manga alike. It deals with the duality of story elements, morals, philosophies, and other societal values of both eastern and western origin in a way I haven’t seen before in shounen manga.

Whereas most western stories--particularly comic books--deal with themes of individuality and identity while often centering around outcasts and loners, most shounen manga stories focus on community and the power of friendship. It often feels like Horikoshi’s trying to tackle both, and I am never sure if he means them to be compatible or at odds with each other.

Now we have chapter 320.

Apparently there are a lot of people who don’t like where this is going. I don’t really care what those people think. I’m reading the story for my own enjoyment. But if you’d like my perspective on this...

Too much of anything is a bad thing, but that doesn’t make the thing itself bad.

We humans, as social creatures, feel guilt commonly because we want to be good, because we care about morality and self-improvement. Say what you will about why that is, but having the capacity to feel guilt means you care.

Peer pressure and manipulation are scary and can be terrible, but they work because they’re playing on the natural human desire to belong. We survive better when we work together, when we cooperate. That’s what it means to be a social creature.

Cooperation takes compromise.

Sharing your feelings isn’t guilt-tripping. Expressing love for someone isn’t manipulation. There’s a balance, sure. There are people who will take advantage of these things to do bad. But that’s not what’s going on here with Deku vs. Class A.

I think it’s pretty obvious. I think I know what Katsuki’s going to say to Izuku at the end of all of this.

Izuku Midoriya: “Don’t worry about me”

A recurring theme over the course of the series has been Izuku striving to improve, to get stronger, to become someone who doesn't worry his mother, someone who doesn’t worry All Might, someone who doesn’t worry his own friends.

He doesn’t want to worry people. He doesn’t want anyone to worry about him.

But people worry whether or not you're strong. That's not a bad thing; it means they care about you.

For the whole series, our dear unreliable narrator Izuku Midoriya makes it sound like "becoming someone no one has to worry about" is a good thing.

And he's wrong, as chapter 320 is beginning to explain to us.

Everyone is now trying to convince Izuku they do care about him, they do worry about him, and that's okay. That’s why Danger Sense won’t activate. (If you need further proof to answer the above question, go watch Shinomori dodge Banjou in the background of chapter 304.)

“All Might” vs. “Self-Victory”

So, you wanna know where this is going with Katsuki Bakugou, you big adorable stans?

Victory and rescue: Both are necessary for a hero to carry out justice.

Why would the narrative punish Izuku for admiring All Might and reward him for admiring Katsuki Bakugou? All Might is a solitary symbol. What Izuku has become in his current iteration of “Deku” is just that. He is focused solely on strength, on “all might” and nothing else. But his admiration of Katsuki Bakugou inspires him to not want to be like Katsuki but surpass him.

And in many ways, Izuku and Katsuki are the same person.

They’ve been learning from each other their entire lives. As Izuku has come to be more like Katsuki in strength, Katsuki has learned what he needs to know about rescue, and he now has to remind Izuku of all that. The roles are switched now; Katsuki wants to save Izuku.

You wanna know what Katsuki has to tell Izuku?

Izuku, who doesn’t want others to worry about him because he doesn’t worry about himself either?

Izuku, who cares about others?

Don’t care about me if you don’t care about yourself.

Care about both.

Care about everyone and yourself, too.

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pikahlua · 3 years

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i think the funniest thing is that people say that bkg doesn’t have any major ties to the story anymore besides apologizing to izuku. like hori would’ve have spent so much time on his character just so that it ends with an apology and is just shoved out of the story. imo I think the second ofa user are parallels with bkg and that actions that the second failed to do, bkg will achieve it. i don’t see why hori would’ve made them lookalike if for not that reason.

Do...do people say that?

??????????????????????????????????????????????

First of all: Apologizing to Izuku is everything.

Like...we all remember the first scene of the story, right? Right??

Even if that was the only thing he has left to do (definitely not), there’s a high probability the apology could be the final scene of the story. That’s capping off like...at least 50% of the story right there.

Acting like the apology is a sidepiece of the greater MHA story is like saying Katsuki hasn’t been part of the story since...he was kidnapped or something. Or that he never was part of the story. Or that he was only part of the story in season 3, or the war arc, or...or...I don’t know. What the hell is the story then??? Just, “Izuku goes to hero school where he learns how to not break his bones so he can fight a big bad villain, The End”? What a shitty story. Why even have a deuteragonist? Yikes.

Second of all: God, what are we going to do with all this leftover foreshadowing?

Katsuki still has to complete his transformation into a charismatic leader.

Rule of threes dictates we need Deku vs Kacchan 3, which Deku has to win by “making OFA his own” (unless there’s a twist).

Look me in the eye and tell me Katsuki isn’t going to be involved in the resolution of the Todoroki Family Drama somehow.

What about all that unresolved tension between Katsuki and All Might? Katsuki has some severe successor-shading there...

The sheer volume of parallels he’s involved in that include All Might, All For One, Izuku, and Tomura...you’re telling me he’s just a placeholder??? That Heroes Rising isn’t a hint at his role in the final battle? That his warning to Izuku of, “Stop trying to win this on your own,” doesn’t go anywhere?

Katsuki still has a grudge against Tomura, wanting “payback” for being kidnapped and using him to cause the end of All Might. There’s no way Katsuki’s final interaction with Tomura is hearing, “You’re not on my radar anymore,” before nearly bleeding out.

The narrative parallels between Katsuki and OFA 2nd user that currently don’t have much predictive power because we still need the full OFA history but damn if those life philosophies of win = live, lose = die aren’t going to be explored in this essay I will--

Third of all: D͉̞͙̭̺̫̭͆̅̂͂̂̉̔̑̚͢͡O̰̮̻̼̰̜͕̎̐̃͗̂͘͢ Ṗ͚̯̩̺̟̦̩̥͎̽̅̾̃̓͡͞Ě̡̧̜̻̟̭̰̀͊͌͑̾̋͝O͓̥͇̟̗̗̜̖͍̗͗̌͐̋͞͡P͍͍̳̯̼̪̘̿̆̌̓͗̋͟L̴̠̳͖͔̻͕̎͆̒̾̏Ę̷͉͕͙̗̥́̓̂͐͌̏̓͜͢͞ Ṡ̷̟̦̘͉̬̦̫̈́͂̄̉̎̆͢Ǎ̸̢̛͉̜̹͇͕̲̟͖̘̎̈̐̔̆̑̕͠Ÿ͕̪̠͉̤͚̫́̀̉͌̈͋̕͠ T̵̫̥̦͉̬̬̻̣̝̀̓͒́̿͛̔̕͡ͅH̴̡̻̼̝̻̩̥͔̽̉̃̀̀̓̏́ͅḀ̛̛̬̲̻̰̼͉̹͕̻̎̑̍̈̉͘̚͠T̡̠̗̼͙̼̔̎̄͝͠��̴̟?̜̗̳͙̗͊̊̀̄̕?̵̫̼̻͚͉̙͕͋̈́̔̄̎̒̈́̒͞ͅ?̺̖̱̮̓́̐͑́̑̚͢?͔͙͚̺͈͙̇̈̆̃̇̀̾ͅ

#katsuki bakugou #izuku midoriya #tomura shigaraki #OFA 2nd user #deku vs kacchan 3 #exCUSE ME #katsuki bakugo's guilt-complex emporium #izuku midoriya's market of trust issues #keeping up with the todorokis #prince of parallels kohei horikoshi #meta #mha spoilers #mha manga spoilers #my hero academia spoilers #my hero academia manga spoilers #ask pika #anon ask

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