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thekillingjoke-haha · 3 years

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We’re Batshit Crazy

@spnquotebingo Word count:1,609

Summary: Love isn't all that perfect sometimes love is crazy especially when the Hero is in love with said crazy.

Gotham AU

Jason Todd(Jensen Ackles) x Villan!Reader

Enemies and Lovers (none of that "to" bs)

Gotham Recasting: Batman=John, Dick Grayson(second Robin not first) =Sam ,Tim Drake=Adam, Joker(ledger style)=Lucifer, Harley Quinn=Lilith,ect.

Warnings: Mention of death, blood, guns, and violence

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The mad laughter rung out into the night sky as the purple Lamborghini hit corners with violently sharp turns. "Oh puddin I just love family night!~" The pale platinum blonde giggled as the man with green dyed hair licked his smiling lips. A bubble of laughter came from the back seat he turned around to see his princess looking out the small back window. "Batsy batsy batsy" Her low/high pitched giggle caused a crazy chain reaction as the bat mobile hurried to catch up. "Always ruining our fun,huh,princess?" The clown king shifted his gray-ish blue order into the mirror grinning making the scars on his face raise into a sinister smile at the look of pure chaos in his daughter's e/c eyes. "Not tonight! Not on my birthday!!" She said as she smiled reaching under the seat to pull out a Tommy gun. Climbing to the front seat sitting on her mothers lap she leaned out the passenger window. "Go back to the Rat cave your not gonna put a downer on my weekend!" Y/n yelled shooting off round towards the tires,windshield,and headlights.

The mobile didn't seem to have a scratch as as a motorcycle pulled up beside it. Slipping back in the car the younger women pouted looking at get parents. "He called his little birdie no doubt the replacements in the car." Y/n huffed as she dug around for more fire power. "Puddin we have a visitor.~" The red mask gazed at us as he lifted a forearm pistol. Shots were fired and Joker took a hard right almost like tron the motorcycle quickly turned into a ally to avoid being hit. "Sorry Princess might have to cut tonight shot." He said licking his lips as a thump came from the roof making the youngest clown snarl her eye crazed as she shot above her as the purple car swerved wildly. "YOU'RE RUINING MY BIRTHDAY,BATS!!!" Y/n cackled madly a mixture of her parents laughed till the magazine ran out.

They got to one of their warehouses where Jokers men were armed to the teeth. The clown mask had black soulless eyes and immediately fired the moment the batmobile entered. Y/n skipped out of the purple Lamborghini she got on her tippy toes and kissed her dad on the cheek. "I got the hooded punk. Can you clip the bats wings for me...a little present?!" He laughed as he armed himself with a shotgun. "Anything for my princess." The f/c sf/c female clown skipped away knowing that the motorcycle riding vigilante was hot on her tail. That's how she found herself on the roof tops jumping the gaps as heavy footfalls followed. Her loud laugh echoed as she leaped to a smaller building hiding behind a vent the moment the brown leather jacket came into view she tackled the tall man. They were both panting as a grin pulled on the clowns lips.

Y/n POV

"Caught ya,Jay bird." I giggled pulling of the helmet his apple green eyes covered by a second mask stared at me he chuckled as his hand slipped above his head in mock surrender. "Yeah you caught me,beautiful." Leaning down I kiss him my hands pushed into his cheeks my thumb running over the scarred J. We've been dating for awhile now ever since dad kidnapped the second Robin at seventeen. I was fifteen at the time and dad had me at his side as he tortured him.I was always there to stitched him up and put burn cream after shock therapy I didn't know how we got attached maybe because he wanted to rebel a little by talking to me or someone around his age saw the same if not worse shit.

Six years ago(Y/n 15 Jason 17)

"Why are you helping me?" Looking up his head was strapped down along with his arms and legs. I shrugged my shoulders I knew who he was if I wiped off the make up and temp dyed my hair I was the honor student in the same class as him. Jason Todd anyone with eyes had a thing for him,but after removing his mask it wasn't hard to piece together who the bat fam is. "I know what my dad has planned for you Jay. This is just a band-aid on a gunshot wound and might I say that's very unhelpful." This was the first I spoke to him and it wasn't long before Dad beat him to death.

Two years later.

I sat in the back of the car as Frost drove. We just left the cemetery. "Why are we doing this,n/n." He asked looking in the rear view mirror at me. I'm seventeen now my thoughts screamed at me. Why was I trying to bring him back? "Because I crazy that why!" I giggled as we grew closer to the lazapit. He was dressed in a black suit with red tie his body sunk into the water as I waited. A loud gasp drew my attention as he shot up a white streak in his hair. "Heya sleeping beauty." Looking over in shock he lowly made his way looking like a baby deer. "I'm alive,but h-how?" His green eyes looked at me. "A Ghoul owed me a few favors I just asked to use his fountain of youth." Handing him a towel and some clothes. "Sorry about the outfit,but Arkham does have one size fits all." Jason chuckled as he started to dry off.I realized why I brought him back. I was crazy about him.

Two more years later(two years ago)

Jason wanted to stay dead he didn't go back to His dad and brother after he realized that neither of them tried and save him. It was sad to see,but it brought Jason closer to me and he started to trust me and I gave trust in return. Blood coated my hands while some was on my face. Looking at Jay some was speckled on his cheeks taking the pockets square out of the mobsters coat I wiped it off he looked down at me his arm slipped around my waist pulling me closer my breath hicked. "Will you be my girlfriend,my little jester?" A large smile grew on my face as my arms went around his neck pulling him down further. "Gladly,Jay bird." I kissed him not caring if my lipstick stained his lips and he didn't seem to care either as the kiss grew more intense. We shared our first kiss at nineteen surrounded by dead bodies as sirens and the unmistakable sound of the armed batmobile. At least he's as crazy about me as I am about him.

One year ago. (Jason POV for a sec)

I came to Bruce I hate to admit it but I needed advice about the one think he knew best. Women. It was just a couple of months ago he found out I was alive and shocker he managed to drive Dicky boy to Blüdhaven to get away from him to get his own image and not just Robin. Oh and surprise surprise when out of robins he had a spare like a tire and it's name was Tim. Nevermind that I stood across from Bruce in his home main office he had a frown on his face. "You're dating someone and its serious and I didn't know about it?" He asked trying to deduct everything. "I've been dating her ever since I came back. As strange as it might sound,but I want us to be something more." That's when the billionaire playboy stood up standing just a inch shorter then myself.

"Life is short Jason and you've experienced that first hand if you feel that both of you are perfect enough to be more then go for it." Perfect wasn't realistic nothing was ever perfect my life isn't perfect her life sure as hell isn't she's the clown princess I'm a bat son. Maybe that what makes us so good together the fact that it would have never really happened any other way life is just crazy like that.

Present

Staring into those vexing green eyes always brought me back. We're both twenty-one him being older only by a couple of months. "Happy birthday,gorgeous." His voice brought me back as my smile grew. We were standing up now he held a box wrapped in my two favorite colors. "Awe you shouldn't have." I grab it and opened it a gun was inside it was red and gold revolver it looked like my moms love/hate gun,but it said King/Queen. Looking at Jay I reached to hug him when suddenly he dropped to one knee pulling out a box with a beautiful f/c ring and ruby gem. "This feels over due. You took care of me when I was considered enemy number one. You brought me back from the grave when my own family didn't try. And this might sound stupid,but I had a crush on you in middle school you were one of the only people that didn't give me pity after Bruce adopted a street kid." He licked his lips as he gave of a small smile. "Together we are far from perfect, but we are good. You complete me...Y/n M/n Napier become my queen?" My eyes glossed over with tears my make up running down the pale foundation. "Oh my god of course!!!" I jumped into his arms hugging him tightly before letting him slip on the ring. "I love you." "I love you more crazy." I chuckle it sounded watery in my throat. "If I'm crazy then that makes two of us. You wanted to marry me." Yep we're both batshit crazy.

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A/n: Quote= We are far from perfect, but we are good. ~Supernatural

Is it just me or does Jensen look fucking hot as Red Hood?! I'm mean he's definitely a reason to move to Gotham

Well first crossover AU in my bingo card

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river-bottom-nightmare · 3 years

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Hey I read this somewhere idk a fic or something maybe idk if its canon, that like brucie Wayne is Bruce's public, tabloid persona, dicks is Richie grayson and only people who knew him, family or friends call him dick

hmmmm. see, here’s where it gets a bit tricky babe.

so, it’s very clear that bruce has 3 different personalities: “brucie wayne,” the over-the-top borderline alcoholic playboy who throws money around like it’s nothing and over the years, has become (not canonically, but accepted by the fandom as) a kind of dull but doting father. then there’s batman, the gruff professional legend that actually acts as more of a legend than a human and drives everything for the sake of the mission. and then there’s just bruce, who is a little more relaxed and caring version of batman that’s only let out around his family and a few close friends.

but dick,,,,doesn’t really have that?

now as far as i’ve seen and read, dick grayson is,,,,dick grayson. the public calls him “dick,” (or probably, as i headcanon, “dickie grayson”). he’s seen as a cute little kid that bruce took in during the early years. i’m stopping myself from screaming and saying a bunch of words because jesus christ is high society racist. then later on when he grew up, people started treating dick as a mini-bruce: a fun, flirty playboy.

the thing is, there isn’t,,,,that stark of a difference between dickie and dick. with bruce, you get whiplash, but for dick, it’s almost as if a couple pieces fall into place? they’re both cheerful, exuberant, funny people who are freely affectionate and loving.

(and part of that playboy persona is actually dick’s.

there’s an absolutely disgusting trend in comics that i’m sure almost all of you have noticed of dick being objectified, catcalled, and sexually assaulted by a lot of people in the dc universe, mostly women. and dick’s shown to be very uncomfortable with all this unwanted attention from people he doesn’t know or doesn’t know well. we all as readers are also uncomfortable with this.

but it’s also shown that when he’s with his friends, he does act playful, fun, and flirty. this is because there’s already a foundation of mutual trust and respect, along with a relationship built on years of friendship. once dick knows, is familiar with, and comfortable with someone, his naturally fun and flirty side comes out, and it’s usually mutual bantering on both sides. and dick’s okay with it. he enjoys it because it’s a way of him relaxing and playing with his friends, and it isn’t at all affected by his appearance or anything because he’s known these people for years, because knows that the mutual appreciation of each other comes from friendship.)

so there’s that: the fact that dickie grayson and dick grayson’s personalities aren’t all that different.

but then there’s the fact that dick grayson is a performer. and he has a lot of masks. it’s almost like there are minute personality changes every time dick’s company and position in the team or duo changes. this is partially due to evolving times, character changes, and of course different writers. but this is something i’ve seen happen with the same author, and if i’m wayyyy off-base, then this can just be a hc of mine that explains the way dick’s core personality changes from writer to writer (ignoring the few writers that just completely obliterated him.)

when dick’s with the titans, he steps up as a leader. he’s commands respect and gives respect in return, issues out orders, sometimes has some control issues but he works through those and learns to listen to his team. when dick’s with the original fab five, or kori, or babs, he lightens up a bit. he’s more easygoing, relaxed, and goofy. he’s still committed to his job and has a strong work ethic, but you can tell he allows himself to chill a little bit in the presence of people that he knows has his back.

when dick’s with the batfam, he acts as sort of an authority figure. this came after jason, once dick started assuming responsibility for tim, but it continued on with each addition. bruce has obviously been the figurehead and sort-of patriarch of the batfam since the beginning, and alfred and babs are people the bats love and respect and give credit where credit is due. and trust me, it’s a lot of credit. but dick’s become their emotional anchor, someone they know they can rely on, someone they fall back on when they need it. he’s their safety net. (although i have to say. recently jason has been turning into the batfam team mom. idk what that’s about but i am thoroughly amused and kinda enjoying it.)

when dick’s with bruce, he becomes,,,,,,,i don’t want to say more childlike because dick’s gone to great lengths to make sure bruce respects him and treats him as an adult. and bruce does, for the most part. but there’s years and years of history between the two of them, and you can’t just wipe away the years of bruce raising dick as his own kid. too much has happened for them to go back to the easy dynamic they used to have, but too much happened in the past for them to ever pretend like they don’t mean as much as they do to each other. so,,,yea dick takes on a little more of a childlike role and bruce acts a tad more paternal than he normally does in the suit.

and when dick’s allied up with people to defeat either a greater or common enemy, his demeanor changes once again. allied, or fighting against people he has history with. this includes shrike, deathstroke, and tiger. when he’s with them, the nightwing mask drips into his entire personality. he’s chatty and witty, but each word is carefully calculated and has a purpose. he makes barbed jokes, fights with 110% of what he’s got, and pushes himself to his limits without ever letting anyone else know.

this is probably how the public never figures out he’s nightwing. (,,,,,,,most of the time.) dickie grayson is probably just different enough from nightwing that no one puts it together. going back to my point of dick being a performer, he probably holds himself differently, moves his body differently, styles his hair differently, has a different resting face, etc. these subtle changes are what people absorb easily, and are what throw people off. dick also probably uses this in the other masks i mentioned above, depending on how approachable, easy, or cunning he needs to appear.

there are constantly thousands of masks that dick’s putting on and taking off. so to sum up my own, person opinion and very long, very wordy, very rambly answer to your quick question: no, dick doesn’t have different drastic personalities like brucie wayne and batman. but dick does have a bunch of masks, and he slightly shifts his personality depending on his company.

#dick grayson #nightwing #batfam #dc #long post #dick grayson meta #nightwing meta #batfam meta #dc meta #river thinks too hard

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wesavegotham · 4 years

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Is modern Batman still a hero?

One topic that I see a lot when people are discussing which bat-character is better or who deserves the most to be Batman after Bruce is how brutal or empathetic the different characters are.

The argument is of course, that characters like Tim or Dick deserve to follow Bruce in his footsteps more than more violent candidates like Jason or Damian.

Personally, I don't really see why you would even want your favourite character to be Batman, but that isn't the topic of this post. Neither is discussing who should take over after Bruce. It's a bit pointless anyway since the Main Universe will always return to Bruce and the (former) Robins are all a bit stuck in their age range, so why fight over a status that wouldn’t stay around for more than a year? Anyway, back to the reason for this post.

A lot of those discussions about "worthiness" are rooted in a certain belief: That Bruce as Batman is empathetic and not brutal, he's a hero.

Maybe it's because I haven't read comics since the 60s, maybe it's because I'm not American and didn't watch Batman the animated series or any other Batman show when I was a child. My knowledge about Batman mostly stems from comics that came out since 2006. I don't have a lot of nostalgia when it comes to Batman and I sometimes struggle to see where this belief in Batman’s goodness comes from.

I look at Batman after New 52 and I don't see an empathetic hero who refrains from using unnecessary violence. I see an often very selfish man, who is incapable of taking responsibility for his actions in a lot of cases, is extremely violent and one of the worst things is probably that both writers and a lot of readers happily let him get away with it. Problematic behaviour isn't bad per se, some of my favourite characters are assholes or shady, but usually both writers and fans aknowledge that fact when writing or talking about them.

The problem here is that DC is writing Bruce as an anti-hero while marketing him as a hero. Even as one of the greatest heroes who has ever lived. I don't know about you, but the lack of empathy and heroism Bruce had in King's Batman run, after all the main Batman book for the last three years, was appaling, and he didn't do much good in other books either.

And again, all of this would be fine if the narrative treated his actions as wrong and made characters in the DC universe comment on that behaviour as wrong. But that doesn't really happen, at least not in a meaningful way. In most cases another character expresses some disappointment for one page, but nobody seriously questions Bruce's status as a friend, leader, mentor or hero. In a lot of other cases Bruce's actions are depicted as good simply because he's Batman and Batman is popular, not because his actions are without a doubt good.

One example for how differently writers and readers treat characters who aren't Bruce Wayne/Batman doing shady stuff is how Adam Glass portrays Damian's actions in Teen Titans and how readers reacted to it.

After the catastrophic events of Justice League: No Justice Damian decided that the Justice League's methods don't work and that Arkham wasn't a good place for dangerous criminals anymore, because the criminals always broke out pretty quickly and would murder innocent people again. With the help of Red Hood he built his own prison, which kinda resembled a torture chamber. I think we can all agree that this is wrong and the narrative treats it as such as well. Thankfully Damian eventually reached the same conclusion and tries to be better again.

Nevertheless, a lot of DC fans still think Damian deserves to get fired or even beaten up by Bruce for what he did. The solicitations for April 2020 make it sound like they might get what they desire.

Even when I ignore how contraproductive punishing a child for trying to solve a problem with violence by using more violence is and that Bruce's neglect allowed all of this to happen in the first place, no matter how this Teen Titans annual will play out, I simply don't think that Bruce is one to judge in this particular situation.

I like to use the summer/fall of 2018 as a reference point because that is when DC Rebirth ended and the entire DC universe started to fall back into it's bad New 52 habits.

Since then Bruce was partly responsible for creating Sanctuary, a poorly designed mental health facility, where Wally West accidentally killed a lot of fellow heroes, because of the way he was treated. The Trinity felt a bit bad about it, but reopened their facility without any known changes anyway:

Bruce imprisoned the very dangerous Batman Who Laughs in a secret prison under the Hall of Justice without telling the Justice League:

The hero community didn't know about any of it, which allowed BWL to infect a lot of allies who Batman had left in the dark.

He beat up Jason Todd, his former protégé, so badly he couldn't walk for weeks based on information that later turned out to be false:

He's overall extremely brutal. Just a few examples:

Breaking KGBeast's neck and leaving him in the cold afterwards:

The entirety of Batman #59 and #60 where he beat up the guards in Arkham, beat Bane into a pulp, punched Gordon in the face, tortured ex-inmates for information on Bane and had Penguin imprisoned in a small cage in the Batcave.

And he punches people in Arkham into submission basically whenever he feels like it:

A lot of Bruce's awful behaviour is from King's run on Batman, but other examples are from Red Hood and the Outlaws, Batman and Superman or even from Detective Comics written by Tomasi, who probably writes the most heroic version of Bruce nowadays.

Tynion's run on Batman just started, but there are already some examples for questionable behaviour there too:

Like building a not very humane looking prison after coming to the same conclusion as Damian, which was that Arkham isn't enough anymore:

Or letting Cheshire get hit by a moving truck on purpose:

Yeah, seriously, the only reason this doesn't count as lethal method is because Batman doesn't kill, thus his enemies simply aren't allowed to die from fatal attacks.

But apparently Bruce is still a hero, a man of empathy and commited to only using as much violence as the situation requires😑

If DC wants Bruce to do shady stuff as much as they do, then maybe it's time to admit that modern Bruce is more of an anti-hero than a hero. Or if DC wants to redefine what it means to be heroic, then Bruce needs to drop his moral supiority complex when dealing with characters that actually don't act that different from him.

#Bruce Wayne #Damian Wayne #Teen Titans #Batman

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sassycassie-s-writing · 5 years

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He’s Alive

By: SassyShoulderAngel319

Fandom/Character(s): DC, BatFam - Jason Todd/Red Hood feat. Dick Grayson/Nightwing

Rating: PG-11/T- (minor violence)

Original Idea: Arkham Knight audio files

Notes: (Masterlist)(By Character)(About Me) I don’t really know or care about the correctness of the difference between referring to Batman as Batman or The Batman, but sometimes Star Beam is just annoying to be annoying. @welovegroot @batboys-and-other-messes

^^^^^

I woke up tied to a chair.

I wish I could say it was an uncommon experience.

Or even the first time that happened.

But I couldn’t.

Because it wasn’t.

I grunted in displeasure and vague boredom as my eyes adjusted to the light. And by light I mean the dim incandescent lightbulb hanging bare from a cord on the ceiling. I blinked a few times until my eyes no longer burned from the light.

“Good morning, Star Beam,” an eerie voice said from the shadows. “Do I call you Miss Beam? Miss Star? Do you have a preference?”

“Fight me,” I snarled, struggling against the chains holding me to the chair.

“Oh, you’ll find that’s quite impossible. Those chains are fitted with a dampener chip that suppresses your metahuman powers, Miss Beam,” the same eerie voice informed me condescendingly. The face that belonged to the voice loomed from the shadows.

Or rather, the mask.

Scarecrow.

Great. This guy again. I’d already wiped the floor with that ugly burlap mask used to scare people on three separate occasions in the last year alone and I was really getting tired of him.

He was like that one guy in the friendzone who kept trying to escape it but he wasn’t actually in the friendzone, he was just in the Oh my WORD, go away dude zone. Almost every girl knows a guy like that eventually. And probably some guys know too—but I don’t really know since I’ve never asked.

“What do you want, Crane?” I demanded. “What was so important that you decided to invest in expensive power-dampeners to get fifteen minutes with me?”

Scarecrow scoffed. “You think that’s how long this is going to last?”

“Yup,” I said, popping the p just to be annoying.

“Nope,” Scarecrow retorted, also popping the p. “Miss Beam, you’re going to be here for ages, until such a time as I deem it right to release you.”

Like that’s going to happen, I thought while rolling my eyes.

Scarecrow got really up-close-and-personal in my face. “Now, tell me, Miss Star Beam, who is the Batman?”

“Okay, I’m gonna correct you there. He is not the Batman. He’s just Batman, got it?” I snapped. “Honestly, it drives me crazy that everyone’s always like, ‘the Batman.’ It makes him sound like he’s half-bat half-human. Which is ridiculous and false.” I struggled against the chains again, trying to remember the escapology Bruce had showed me. I hadn’t paid very good attention back then because I’d thought I’d always have my powers so I could use them to pick locks and such.

I’d need to run a refresher course when I got back to the cave.

IF you get back to the cave, idiot, a snide voice of self-doubt hissed in the back of my mind.

Shut up, I retorted.

Well whose fault was it that you ended up captured in the first place?

Zip it.

“You didn’t answer my question, Star Beam. Who. Is. Batman?” Scarecrow pressed.

I arched my back and squirmed, trying to stretch out. I was stiff from being lashed to the chair. “Why do you assume I even know? You really think Batman would have a security risk like that running around?” I was rambling. Stalling for time. If I didn’t report back to Alfred every half-hour, he’d send Batman after the chip in my suit—which I was still wearing. Thank the heavens this wasn’t one of the times I woke up tied to a chair in my underwear and sports bra. “Like, seriously. One of the best detective minds in the world who’s just gonna be like, ‘Oh yeah, this little girl with weird powers can totally know who I am under this mask. I’m sure that won’t be a problem,’” I growled in my best Batman voice.

Okay, so my Batman impression wasn’t stellar, but it wasn’t terrible either.

Scarecrow stared at me. I wondered vaguely what his expression looked like underneath the mask. Was he irritated? Angry? I couldn’t tell.

He sighed finally. “Shame. I was so hoping my preferred method wasn’t going to be necessary. That you’d give up the information willingly. Though, perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised. The Batman somehow manages to instill a strange sense of loyalty in his followers.”

“You say that like he’s an internet personality,” I remarked.

Scarecrow revealed one of the syringes on his hand—the kind that would inject me with a concentrated dose of his fear toxin that would probably nearly kill me. “Enough of your silly little games, Star Beam,” he snapped. “You’re going to tell me who Batman is, and you’re going to do it now.” He lifted the syringe and held it toward me.

The door was kicked open. “Get the H*&% away from her!” a voice ordered.

The newcomer was tall. Not quite as tall as Bruce, but only shorter by a couple inches. He was also absolutely ripped—to the point where I thought it looked uncomfortable.

But I couldn’t describe his face because I couldn’t see it. He wore a scarlet helmet over his entire head. Frustrating, not to know who was under there. I supposed that was how a lot of people felt about Batman. Hmm.

Scarecrow snickered and backed away. “As you wish, Red Hood.”

“Let me talk to her. Alone. See if I can get it out of her in a different way,” Red Hood said.

Scarecrow moved to leave. “Alright. But when she proves uncooperative, we’ll do this my way.” He slid out and slammed the metal door behind him.

Red Hood sat opposite me on another metal chair, lounging on it casually. He tsked. “Oh Star Beam. You’ve really gotten yourself in a pickle this time, haven’t you?”

I wriggled and leaned my head back away from him. “Uh… I guess?” I said.

He sighed and shook his head, looking down. “No, no. You’re doing it wrong. You’re supposed to keep me talking. Or talk yourself. That’s what Bruce taught you to do right? Bide your time till he shows up to get you.”

I blinked. “B-Bruce?” I stammered.

Red Hood snickered. “Yeah. Scarecrow doesn’t know that I know. Let’s just keep it our little secret, okay?” he asked.

I cleared my throat. “Who are you?” I asked.

I heard an exhale that could have counted as a snort of amusement. “You don’t even recognize my voice anymore. I suppose that’s okay. It’s been a long time since the last time you heard it. I was just a teenager back then.”

Red Hood pressed the side of his helmet. The mask at the front opened up.

I gasped and lurched backward, the legs of my chair screeching on the concrete floor. “J-Jason?”

A leather-gloved hand reached up and stroked my face, pausing with fingertips at the seam where my mask met skin. I really hoped he wasn’t going to remove it. That wouldn’t be good. “Hey Star Beam,” he greeted, voice soft and gentle but with an underlying hostility and aggression I didn’t trust at all.

“You’re… you’re supposed to be dead,” I breathed, unable to think of anything else to say.

Jason shrugged. “Didn’t take,” he said. “Listen, don’t count on Batman to come save you. I thought he’d save me too but that didn’t turn out so well. Figure out how to get out on your own.”

“I’m trying. There’s a power-dampener on the chains. I can’t pick the lock with my telekinesis.”

“Well try harder. I don’t want Scarecrow to have you in here.”

“Oh, so just because it’s me you want to help.”

“Isn’t that enough?”

“For my survival, yes. But what if it was Dick? Or some random civilian? Would you be encouraging them to escape?”

“Unknown, Star Beam. Because they’re not here and you are.” He reached forward and pulled the bobby pin out of my hair and slid it down my arm and into my hand where it was tied behind my back. “I know you don’t want to hear this, but I still love you.”

“Don’t want to hear that my boyfriend from when I was fifteen still loves me even though he’s allied himself with one of my enemies. Hmm,” I said.

“Pick the lock, escape the dampener, and then you high-tail it out of here, you hear? My alliance with Scarecrow is necessary. You don’t know what happened to me when I was brought back to life. I’d been hollowed out. Still am. The only thing that’s left of who I was is my love for you. Somehow that survived.” He kissed my forehead. “Now go.” He straightened up, shut his helmet, and left the room. “Give her a few minutes to stew over my threat in solitude, she’ll come around,” Jason said to Scarecrow. The metal door slammed with a heavy thunk!

I fiddled with the bobby pin, breaking it to use as a lock-pick. Lucky for me picking locks was about feeling and not seeing because I couldn’t see what I was doing. Just had to feel for the tumblers.

The locks released. I sighed in relief and quietly slid out of the chains, trying to make them clink as little as possible.

I rolled my wrists, stretching them out and calling on my powers. Silver-white light danced around my fingers. I grinned. “I’m back,” I whispered.

I stole over to the window. The bars were too narrow for me to slip through and the glass appeared to be ballistic glass—bulletproof.

I smirked. “Good thing my powers have nothing to do with bullets,” I mused.

I bent my knees and made a telekinetic shield in front of me.

With a single shove of my hands in which I touched nothing, I tore the bars and glass out of the window. There was a horrible wrenching and crashing noise as the bars and glass broke free. The rubble ricocheted off my shield.

The door burst open behind me. The shield swung around to protect my back. “Get her!” Scarecrow shouted. “This is why telekinetics are cheaters, Hood!”

I laughed and launched myself out the window. I didn’t even care where I was or how high up. I was getting out. “Woooooo-Hoooooo!” I called as I fell through the air. A cushion of silver-white telekinetic energy pillowed my landing, but I tuck-and-rolled anyway for the sake of my knees and the fact that I was really stiff from sitting in that chair for too long.

Bullets followed after me as I took cover with an, “Eeep!” and threw up another shield.

“HOLD YOUR FIRE!” I heard Jason shout. The bullets ceased. “Anyone hurts her and they’re gonna deal with me!”

I did a quick stretch and took off running. “GO AFTER HER!” Scarecrow shrieked.

“But don’t you dare shoot her!” Red Hood added.

I leapt over a busy street of cars with the help of my powers and kept running. I had to get out of the city. Into the woods… if I could make it up into the branches of the canopy they’d have a harder time tracking me… get back to the Batcave.

I careened around a corner—

Only to be grabbed, a hand wrapping around my mouth to muffle my shriek and throwing me against a wall.

A familiar figure towered over me, holding me still and keeping my mouth shut. There was a smile on his face and a blue domino mask over his eyes—which were blue underneath. His hair was black. He was about five-ten and slender—fluid lines and lean muscle. Not bulky and jacked like Jason.

I pushed his hand off my mouth. “Dick?!” I scream-whispered.

“Hey Star Beam. Who’re you running from?” he asked. “I haven’t seen you that scared since the first time you sparred with B on Beast Mode.”

I sucked in a deep breath, trying to stop panting. “I’m running… from… Jason,” I got out through my heavy breathing. “Because… y’know… no one bothered to tell me that he’s still alive.” Dick took a step back, letting me go completely.

“Well, technically, he’s not ‘still’ alive. He did actually die. But then he got brought back. Long story. Quick version: reality got a little altered which brought him back to life and then he took a dip in the Lazarus Pit to heal,” Dick explained. I blinked. This was a lot to process. I wasn’t feeling too hot anyway, but this was a lot. I leaned against the wall and put my hand on the bricks behind me, looking for solidarity.

I took another deep breath. “Okay…” I breathed. “And no one thought to tell me this… why?!” It took all my self-control not to lose my cool. Not to scream at him and shout. But we were still hiding from Scarecrow and Jason’s goons.

“I, uh, I’ll have to let B explain that one. C’mon. Let’s get out of here. You good to keep moving?”

“Yeah I’m good.”

“Okay great. Let’s move.”

I followed him up the fire escape of the building he’d pinned me to. We leapt over rooftops and across alleys with agility—and telekinesis in my case—before coming to a stop in Crime Alley. Below us, in an alley, was the Batmobile. Dick took the fire escape down. I just jumped and used my powers to cushion my fall.

“Now what?” I asked, upon finding the Batmobile was empty.

“We wait for approximately fifteen seconds,” Dick said.

One. Two. Three…

Jason was alive. What was I supposed to be thinking?

Four. Five. Six…

More than just alive—working with Scarecrow as the Red Hood.

Seven. Eight. Nine…

He’d had guns strapped to his thighs. Guns. Jason hadn’t been taught how to fight with guns. What was going on?

Ten. Eleven. Twelve…

I was too overwhelmed for any of this. I needed to go home and get some sleep.

Thirteen. Fourteen. Fifteen…

“Okay. It’s been fifteen seconds and he’s still not here,” I said to Dick. “Now what?”

Sixteen. Seventeen. Eight—

“Nightwing. Star Beam. What are you doing here?” a deep voice said. I whirled around to see Batman looming in the darkness of the alley.

Dick leaned against the Batmobile, spinning one eskrima stick around his hand casually. “Hey B. Guess who just found out your son is alive?”

Batman looked at me. “Are you going to lash out or are you going to let me explain?” he asked.

“Both?” I suggested.

“Alright. Let’s get somewhere safe first. Pile in, you two.”

#He's Alive #Jason Todd #Jason Todd Imagine #Jason Todd FanFiction #Red Hood #Red Hood Imagine #Red Hood FanFiction #DC #DC Imagine #DC FanFiction #BatFam #BatFam Imagine #BatFam FanFiction #featuring #Dick Grayson #Nightwing

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vmheadquarters · 7 years

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ASK THE FANDOM--RESPONSES

Here’s this week’s Ask the Fandom question, from a lovely follower who probably didn’t realize just how popular/ controversial this question would be!

Do you think Veronica was justified in breaking up with Logan for sleeping with Madison? My own two cents: I feel like Logan gets a pass from most people on this but I have a harder time with it. He had to have known how much Veronica hated Madison and the reasons why. I assume that would have been discussed when LoVe were together. I’m with V that it seemed to be a pretty pointed choice of sex partner.

And here’s what all of you had to say:

@heavenli24-- Do you think Veronica was justified in breaking up with Logan for sleeping with Madison? For me, it seems kind of like a ‘we were on a break’ Friends scenario. Veronica and Logan were not together when he slept with Madison and he had been the one to break up with her, so technically it wasn’t cheating and at the time he was essentially free to sleep with whoever he liked - so I don’t think Veronica has a leg to stand on on the cheating front. Of course, though, you have the emotional factor to consider: - the fact that he slept with someone else when they’d only just broken up and it was clear he still loved her (the Friends scenario) - the fact that Madison was the girl he slept with, when he knew of the bad blood between her and Veronica - the fact that he didn’t tell the whole truth when Veronica asked him if he’d hooked up with someone else while they were apart. Taking that into account, I think that Veronica was right to be angry with him over it - mainly for the omission of the truth - and also that she was justified in feeling hurt over it. For Logan’s part, I like to think it wasn’t a deliberate thing, that he didn’t make an informed decision to seek out and sleep with Madison - I’m picturing a scenario where he was drunk and upset and Madison took advantage of it, knowing what the consequences might be. Having said all that though, I do think it was something LoVe could have worked through and that Veronica could have come to terms with and forgiven him for eventually. I also think that if Logan had been honest in the first place and admitted what happened rather than having it come out later, they could have worked through it without all the added drama… I think what sealed it for Veronica was that a) Logan didn’t tell her when she asked and b) she had to find out from Madison herself instead

@missismess-- I generally agree with your two cents. The great thing about Veronica Mars is that I empathize 100 % with the protagonist, even if I don’t agree with her. I feel for her so strongly that I absolutely understand her reaction to Logan’s choice of sex partner. I would have done the same thing. From a rational standpoint I also understand that the slight really isn’t the end of the world. And I can see how Logan would have made the supposedly drunken decision to self sabotage by fucking the person most likely to wreck his life even worse - right up his ally. But emotionally? I’m with Veronica.

@abeautifuldarkness-- It's a little less we 'were on a break' and more 'we were broken up.' And by that account, the latter does not imply/expect future reconciliation. It was a surprising treat that they did get back together. While I feel terrible for Veronica, because I definitely have one or two 'Madisons' in my own life, I can't help but slightly side more with Logan. Asshole move? definitely. But is it out of character? no. Rich boy getting wasted, having empty, meaningless sex to fill a painful void: very Logan-esque, especially when he, as Jason Dorhring puts it, plummets into lows in his life. I think Veronica was justified to make him suffer for it, and even cubing Madison's car, but long-term, serious relationships take more than 24 hours to work out, even when your very core is hurt, especially when the whole thing is on a technicality like that of a hiatus in a relationship's timeline. I speak from experience, and while I can see that V & L don't have the 7- year experience I have how, I know that had myself and my boyfriend didn't really push through those shitty painful moments even in our fresh days of naivety, we wouldn't have survived either. So maybe I'm biased, but I half hope/half expect Veronica and Logan to push through the same way. So my opinion/answer is that she excused in the emotional sense, but not justified. What makes it all worse is that small fact that she doesn't completely listen to Logan's message. If it wouldn't have changed her mind, he at least deserved the closure, a last fight or her listening to (all) is words, or something. I love V but I expect her to at least have the maturity to do that, and in in this episode she doesn't. Such a painful moment in their timeline either way.

@jennydb-blog-- I am not sure he realizes how much she hates him. I actually dislike more that he is still friends with Dick, who basically set up Veronica's rape at the hands of Beaver. But I am not sure how much she has told him about that. Personally, I think Veronica is overreacting. But I am not someone who generally see why people are mad about friends hooking up with someone you dated three years ago either. Water under the bridge.

@addicted2love2015-- Do you think Veronica was justified in breaking up with Logan for sleeping with Madison? I very much understand Veronica being upset to the point of breaking up and leaving the scene in a hurry. She was lied to by the guy she loved, who was the same guy who repeatedly begged her to trust him. She was also completely humiliated in possibly the worst way she could imagine, also by the guy she loved and who was supposed to love her. Even if they weren’t together at the time of the act, does love and respect for the other just fly out the window the minute they say, “It’s over”? Did the friendship, separate from the romantic relationship, count for anything? After all, Logan had as much said that he was still her friend and that he would be there if she needed anything. Friends don’t hurt their friends on purpose. The on purpose part is Veronica’s viewpoint, but mine too. I agree with Veronica when she says that he can’t say that he didn’t think of her and how much it would hurt her sometime before or during the act. The sex with her enemy and then the lying and then the excuse of “you didn’t deserve to know” would feel like betrayal of the worst kind. Even though Veronica was justified in breaking up with Logan, I think she should have talked about the Madison-thing with him after some time went by of her trying to process and the pain not being so fresh. The bottom line is she loved him and really didn’t want to be without him. She should have put her big girl panties on and addressed it head-on in order to move past it. I think she wanted to, but by the time she was ready, he had moved on to Parker. Again, I think her feeling would have been Parker was another way to purposely hurt her, whether it was or not. I do think it is something that they could have moved past if Parker hadn’t entered the scene. It could have even served as a positive catalyst to address many of the other problems in their relationship, if they had let it. Interestingly, @brittany4824 and I just posted a story about a week ago that addresses this very subject. If you haven’t read it yet, go read http://archiveofourown.org/works/9686306 .

@fatherjerusalem-- Well right off the bat, let’s just say that Veronica is absolutely able to break up with Logan for any reason at all, or no reason whatsoever (and vice versa). She (if she were a real human being) needs no justification in ending a relationship. That being said, I do think that one of Veronica’s character traits is that with the people she cares about most (Keith and Logan, for example) she’s MUCH harsher on their… bad choices…. than she is on people who she may like, she may enjoy spending time with, but they don’t MEAN as much to her. She’s not as disappointed when Weevil does something bad because she doesn’t have those same expectations from him. So when Logan - who was free and clear to do anything with anyone he wanted to, let’s not forget - slept with Madison, the combination of her expectations for Logan and her hatred of Madison hit that boiling point. Just look at her reaction to the whole Duncan/Kendall did-they-didn’t-they (they did) when she was actually dating Duncan. She didn’t care about that nearly as much, because Duncan didn’t mean nearly as much to her. As for Logan’s side of it, he didn’t outright lie (yes, not naming the person he slept with was a lie of omission, but he did admit to sleeping with someone that meant less than nothing to him) and I will flat out fight anyone who said he did it to hurt Veronica or to get back at Veronica. And it’s not a Ross-and-Rachel-we-were-on-a-break type situation. They were flat out broken up. So… I give Logan a pass here, because I don’t think he did anything wrong. And with him “having to have known” how much Veronica hated Madison and why… I don’t necessarily agree. I think he, obviously, knew that Veronica hated Madison but not necessarily the why (which, to be fair, while Madison WAS a terrible person, having her being blamed by Veronica for her rape while Dick gets a free pass is just… is flat out wrong. she’s mad at Madison because Madison DIDN’T get raped and that’s… not cool at all) and I don’t think Logan went out specifically to nail Madison. I think it was probably a drunken party and she came on to him while he was weak and he had a moment that he immediately wished he could take back. It happens. So yes, I think Veronica was justified - because she doesn’t NEED to justify her actions for us, and no I don’t think Logan did it on purpose or set out to hurt Veronica. I don’t blame either of them for what they did. I blame the writers for taking the perfect breakup in Spit & Eggs, trashing it an episode later, throwing them back together for two episodes, and then breaking them up again just so Veronica could be “right” - which was the theme of season three. Just terrible hack-y writing. The Spit & Eggs breakup had so much potential for Veronica’s character growth, but… can’t make Veronica out to be not 100% right 100% of the time. Season three is the worst.

@mysilverylining-- Ohhh boy. This debate usually gets interesting. I can understand and empathize with Veronica’s heartbreak over Aspen. I imagine it would hurt like a bitch knowing that the person you hate had their hands all over the person you love. I’d probably want to throw up, too. I also feel for Logan, because he did something stupid and impulsive that ended up ruining everything. I don’t believe for a second that he did it to hurt Veronica or was even thinking about Veronica when it happened (Kendall, is another story altogether). With that said, I know people don’t like comparing the actions of one character to those of another, but I do think it’s relevant. There’s a strong case of “Do what I say, not what I do.” when it comes to Veronica and Logan. After Weevil burned down Logan’s house and tortured him (she at least knew about the fire), Veronica arranged not one, but TWO jobs for him. Blatantly showing Logan that his enemies aren’t her enemies. On top of that, although Duncan wasn’t Logan’s enemy, he was the person who would hurt him the most to see Veronica with two weeks after their breakup. So I guess I feel like Veronica doesn’t really have a case for demanding Logan’s loyalty two months after their breakup, when she hasn’t demonstrated that kind of loyalty or sensitivity herself.

@catalina-infanta-- Also, Im not really all that convinced that Veronica was very upfront with Logan about her feelings about Madison (and why). She is often not very communicative.

@kerali-- I’m going to try to keep this to two or three points. First, I think Logan’s motivation for sleeping with Madison had nothing to do with Veronica. Madison was part of Logan’s social group and had been for years. They all went to Aspen for Christmas and all likely had partied together for a long time. For Logan, she was there and likely the aggressor for a very drunk and depressed Logan who had just broken up with the woman he loved right before the holidays, which he likely hated at that point. The reason I think this is because he didn’t do anything with it to hurt her, which he was more than capable of doing. I don’t think he ever was in relationship with anyone to hurt Veronica, but he had been willing to use his relationships with other women to push her buttons (Kendall especially). Veronica compartmentalizes to deal with all of the trauma that had happened to her and when Logan did try to talk about Shelly’s party, she shut it down and said she forgave him, but really she didn’t deal with it at all. As far as Logan likely knew, she was drugged and had sex with Duncan, until Cassidy’s revelation. It’s unlikely that she would have opened up enough to him for him to understand exactly how everything happened, so while he know’s Madison is awful and that Veronica hates her, it’s unlikely that he knew everything that was done and likely sees her as being about the same as Shelly, Caitlyn, and other 09′er girls that were mean in high school. I think Madison had it out for Veronica because she’s an awful, entitled person that was also pretty jealous of Veronica dating Duncan and Logan. Veronica also never told Logan exactly how she found out it was Madison. Veronica doesn’t need justification to break up with Logan. She found herself in a relationship that she didn’t want to be in and at that point, they were likely doomed anyway. They got together but didn’t deal with their own issues or what broke them up. Veronica wants control (in her words, intimacy) and Logan is too dangerous because he sees her. She can’t share herself with him, because she knows that he knows her and can get through her walls that have allowed her to survive. For him to know her secrets too, would give him too much control and she can’t deal with that. And it was best for Logan too. He needed validation and to be loved, and Veronica couldn’t do that for him, as much as she talked about intimacy, she never told him she loved him. Again, it was too much for either of them and they didn’t have the support from others or authority figures who should have been the ones to teach them how to deal with the trauma in their lives, or who could teach them to be an equal partner in a relationship.

@winifredburkle-- I want to thank @fatherjerusalem for everything he said here and commend him for saying it so eloquently because when I read this ask the fandom two hours ago I went into a fucking rage blackout because I can not believe it’s 2017 and yet we’re still beating this dead horse. Fact is, as Jer said above, Veronica can break up with Logan for whatever damn reason she pleases whether it be because she suspects him of murder, thinks his actions of late have been deplorable, or yeah because he slept with someone (when they weren’t together) and she doesn’t think she can get past it. That’s her right within the relationship, just like Logan had every right to break up with her in 3x09. Now, as for this “Logan intentionally hurting Veronica” bullshit it’s just that– bullshit. Let’s break it down: 1. First off, and I know this might seem shocking to some of y’all, but Logan’s world doesn’t actually revolve around Veronica. Expecting him to sit down and map out how his actions/choices might directly affect her at any given point is ludicrous. (Same with Veronica sitting down and weighing out how Logan might react. It’s not realistic). 2. People like to bring up the fact that Logan knows Veronica was roofied “by Madison” and that he should therefore hate Madison on Veronica’s behalf, but let’s look a closer look at the events surrounding 1x21. • Veronica accuses Logan of maybe having raped her and says that if it was him she’ll make him pay. • Veronica then finds out from Carrie Bishop that it was Duncan and she has her confrontation with Duncan. Veronica immediately goes to Wallace and tells him everything. • Veronica goes home, invites Logan over, tells him she’s sorry and tells him everything that happened. At this point Veronica doesn’t know that Madison passed her the roofied drink at the party, so it’s not something she can share with Logan. • They go to Logan’s, the surprise party happens, Veronica finds out that Madison passed her the roofied drink. Then her and Logan make out and she finds the camera in poolhouse, assumes the worst, and splits. • AKA WE NEVER FUCKING SEE VERONICA TELL LOGAN THAT MADISON IS “””””RESPONSIBLE””””” FOR VERONICA DRINKING THE GHB SO HOW THE FUCK • like..i guess maybe everyone is assuming that she told Logan at some point after? but like?? when? when she was accusing him of murder, when he was in jail, when he was on trial, when he was burning down buildings and lying to her and she was breaking up with him???? • Also, so Veronica tells Logan that it was a misunderstanding between her and Duncan that night and then she starts dating Duncan again like…a month ish or less after she breaks up with Duncan. Also, as someone pointed out on a different thread responding to this ask, Veronica is cordial(ish) towards Dick even after knowing his role in what happened to her, and at school she doesn’t act any more or less ~bitchy~ towards Madison either. So all this almost super sounds like…Logan had no fucking idea Veronica hated Madison as much as did (based on her behavior and the fact that we never see her tell him about Madison’s “role” at shelley’s !!!) so at the he most just thought they didn’t get along - if he fucking bothered to think about it and why??? would he – , which largely didn’t matter because Veronica had like….five or less people she actually considered her friend during high school and fucking Logan wasn’t even one of those people most days. • 3. When Veronica is forcing/cajoling/whatever fucking word you want to use for it information out of Logan during Poughkeepsie, Tramps, and Thieves, Logan is visibly uncomfortable and calls Veronica out on her shit several times. (Veronica insists she wants to know so they can be more open with each other and Logan essentially says that if she wants them to get to that place she should let it go). When he admits he slept with someone during their break up he uses the term “horrible girl” and says that the unnamed girl “meant less than nothing to him”. He also goes on to say that “he couldn’t regret it more” and “thinking of it makes him ill”. He’s talking about Madison here, and he isn’t saying this stuff because Veronica knows he’s talking about Madison and he’s trying to save face/avoid a fight. He’s saying it because that’s how he feels. Sounds 0% to me like someone who was ~intentionally trying to hurt her~ • 4. Also!!!! in Poughkeepsie, Tramps, and Thieves– Veronica forgives Logan right away for what happened and says she loves him anyway. It’s only when she finds out about Madison that she gets disheartened and breaks up with him. That CLEARLY SHOWS that this isn’t a Veronica/Logan issue, it’s a Veronica/Madison issue. This is also emphasized in the episode where Veronica has Weevil steal Madison’s car– that episode shows that Veronica is only mad at Madison (because her issues with her rose to the surface again)– not that she’s mad at Logan. • 5. and THIS “I blame the writers for taking the perfect breakup in Spit & Eggs, trashing it an episode later, throwing them back together for two episodes, and then breaking them up again just so Veronica could be “right”” I think Veronica’s reaction to finding out Logan slept with Madison directly illustrates the point Logan was making when he broke up with her, saying that he doesn’t measure up to the person she wants him to be. It’s a shame that the writers didn’t focus on what Logan was saying, and how Veronica finally maybe recognizes what Logan was getting at, and had them work on themselves as individuals. If they had framed “Madison-gate” with that that lens (and not immediately thrown Logan and Veronica into relationships right after???) this conversation probably wouldn’t cause rage blackouts and also I don’t think we’d still be having it. • TL;DR– let Logan Echolls fucking live!!!!

@petpluto-- The thing with this is - Weevil is Veronica’s friend. It is a more complex relationship between the three of them, because Weevil is one of the people who was there for Veronica when people like Logan weren’t, someone who will come and get her if she calls, no questions asked. It isn’t as cut and dried as, “Veronica got two jobs for Logan’s enemy”. It’s Veronica got two jobs for her friend, who has a hate-semi-hate relationship with Logan. Veronica is loyal to both of them, in different ways. Same with Duncan. He was Veronica’s first boyfriend; he was stable when Logan was not. It isn’t a guy she started dating knowing it would hurt Logan. It’s a guy she started dating again, separate from Logan. Logan had no prior loyalty to Madison, not in the way Veronica does to Weevil and to Duncan. That doesn’t mean that he was intentionally hurting Veronica, but I don’t know what enemies of Logan’s Veronica prioritized above him that she didn’t already have a prior relationship with, and loyalty to, herself. And Veronica kept socializing with Dick, probably at least partially because she recognized that Logan had that same kind of loyalty to him as she had to Weevil.

@mysilverylining-- Don’t get me wrong. I don’t disagree with any of that. I’ll defend Veronica’s right to date Duncan post-breakup as much as I’ll defend Logan’s right to sleep with Madison. I’ll defend her right to find employment for Weevil. My post above wasn’t about placing fault on Veronica for those actions. At the same time, Veronica showed zero sensitivity to Logan’s feelings while dating Duncan. Specifically, I’m referring to the PDA behavior in FBLA class that would have been inappropriate in a school setting even if the broken-hearted ex wasn’t sitting in the same class. That had to feel like a slap in the face to Logan after the sneaking-around in S1 in the name of protecting Duncan’s feelings. And we know Logan felt like nothing in her eyes, because he had to ask her to pretend her dog’s life was at stake. Again, I don’t feel that Veronica was obligated to make concessions to Logan’s feelings after their breakups, or to tiptoe around the way she had with Duncan. But after learning about Madison, Veronica acted as if Logan had broken some kind of code. She spent S2 demonstrating to Logan how very little he mattered to her post-breakup (not her actual feelings, obviously). So for her to expect Logan to base his choices on how they might affect her in S3 seems unfair and hypocritical. Do as I say, not as I’ve done, basically.

@notaparkerfan: If Logan couldn’t get past what Weevil did to him, and that Veronica was still helping Weevil, he would be completely justified in breaking up with. He would not be entitled to retaliation on her for disloyalty while trying to be in a relationship with her.

I’m not advocating or supporting retaliation in the least. I want these two happy, communicating, and in love.

I’m just not impressed with Veronica’s handling of the situation. The pain and nausea I can understand. I can understand her asking for time to come to grips with the idea. But I would have appreciated some self-reflection in the situation. As far as Weevil goes, pre-existing friendship or not, this guy tortured her boyfriend, and burned down his home including every last trace of his dead mother. Maybe that’s not a friendship deal-killer in Veronica’s book. I’d question what it says that it isn’t, while at the same time, I’m glad they remained friends. But Madison’s actions at Shelly’s party, are honestly more defendable than Weevil’s. So again, she expects a loyalty from Logan that she isn’t willing to give. Honestly, it would have been better all around if it was Dick who’d gotten between them. They could have created a character-based storyline, if she’d told Logan about Dick’s responsibility in her rape, and he’d had to choose between his only loyal friend and his girlfriend.

@petpluto-- In season 2, Veronica broke up with Logan because he refused to stop his retaliatory actions against the 02ers, and took his inability to stop as an indication that he didn’t love her. Not like she loved him. Logan wasn’t obviously broken hearted - not to her, anyway. She didn’t get to see the puppy dog looks we did. She didn’t see him pining. Which is one of the issues we run into in discussions such as this (like when Logan is waiting innocently at the yacht for their date in season 1). Just because we know his true feelings doesn’t mean she does. So, with Duncan, he’s not her broken hearted ex. He’s her ex, who - for her own insecurities, her own issues, the fact that he is good at hiding his own emotions, etc. - doesn’t give a damn that she’s dating Duncan again. So, I would be more inclined to agree with you if Logan were obviously pining. But he isn’t, because that’s not who he is. And since that’s not who he is, I can’t blame Veronica for taking him at face value and acting accordingly. The only thing I do wish had been different about the Logan-Veronica-Duncan situation is I do wish Veronica had asked Duncan to try to talk to him, to see if his oldest and best friend could help get him on the right track even if she couldn’t. But even there, I understand her pulling completely away and entering into a self-protective mode. I completely agree about Dick, though. It would have made a much more multifaceted story, and created an actual moral dilemma for Logan in the way Madisongate never could, because he is obviously allowed to sleep with whomever he wants when he and Veronica are not together and when he never expects them to get back together. And Veronica is entitled to her emotional reaction to that, once they did start dating again, because Madison was one of the only people she told about her rape and was one of the people who didn’t believe her.

@notaparkerfan—I love @petpluto perspective.

@millenderj—I agree totally with winifredburkle!!!!!

@risssaar-- Yes to all of this but especially to the Spit & Eggs breakup being the perfect break up for them. That is one of those moments that it still hurts to look at because it was so painful and real and raw - Logan saying he’d always love Veronica but that he needed more from her and from a relationship, Veronica stoically going on until she finally breaks down in the shower - there was such potential for growth there that even though they were breaking up I was excited to see where things would go and then they messed all of that up. I LOATHE that Logan x Veronica’s final break up before the 9 years of radio silence was about Madison. I even hate the way that they framed the whole sleeping with Madison discussion onscreen. Offscreen there was talk of Veronica’s sexual jealously being at the root of it and I think exploring that more onscreen could’ve been interesting and led to Veronica working through a lot of her other hangups about Logan/relationships, which would’ve been pretty amazing to see. Instead I felt like the point of this break up was simply to break up Logan x Veronica in some sort of CW mandated introduce other love interest twist and that just ruined everything. Logan x Veronica had so many real issues to work through that the writers could mine that I am forever bitter that they felt into this mess instead.

@jennydb-blog-- Wow, many offended ppl here. No one said Veronica cant break up with Logan for whatever reason. I am just saying I would not have done it over something like that. And I love V, but she is horrible at communication. She barely tells people stuff. It is not always easy to guess what she thinks, or how she feels. Logan understands her quite intuitively compared to f ex Duncan, but he is still not a mind reader.

@lisawolfe80-- One thing that always puzzled me related to this was if Logan was supposed to know how much Veronica really despised Madison, why would he use her as his alibi in 3x3? If your significant other is already miffed at you, asking her to verify your alibi with her most hated nemesis seems crazy. And given her non-reaction to that scene, I tend to feel like he really didn't get how much Veronica may hate her. Always made me question how much he understood her feelings on that

@jennydb-blog-- Yeah, Logan had many douchey friends, and I don't think he realized how far Veronica's hatred for some of them ran. She could never really forgive the way they treated her after the whole Jake Kane-thing. While Logan has stayed friends with them throughout that, and seen that they also accepted his relationship with Veronica. So he sees it from a completely different vantage point. Veronica holds a grudge, but she can't really expect everyone else to.

@teenagegumshoe-- Am I too late to jump in? Is Veronica justified in breaking up with Logan? Yes. His actions caused her pain and she didn’t think she could be with him anymore. Is it ok for Veronica to be upset by this, or is she being a totally irrational headcase? For me, I think blaming Madison was a coping mechanism. • She could place the blame on a single guilty party (instead of coping with the fact that all of her former friends violated her/let it happen) • Madison was someone she already hated (instead of having to deal with “I love Logan & Duncan but they sexually assaulted me.”) • Madison wasn’t someone she had to deal with regularly (unlike Dick, who was Logan’s only loyal friend) I really wish Veronica had dealt with these issues on the show. However, while blaming Madison is not rational, response to trauma often isn’t. I can’t dismiss her feelings, especially considering how much she has already forgiven/ignored regarding Shelley’s party. Did Logan know how much Veronica hated Madison? Well, let’s look at their conversation (thanks to vmtranscripts.com) LOGAN: It wasn’t information that you had a right to know. I knew you wouldn’t be able to deal with the Madison thing. VERONICA: [with increasing anger] Which thing are you talking about? The “she roofied me” thing or the thing when I stumbled to my car in the morning, wondering where my virginity was, and she’d written “slut” on my windshield? Was that what you thought I couldn’t deal with? I am so genuinely sick right now. If I could have eaten anything today, I’d be throwing up all over your floor. Logan shows no surprise or shock at Veronica’s response, which includes some pretty serious accusations. If this was new information, I feel like Logan would have responded with a “wait, what? MADISON roofied you?”. To me, that suggests that he’s aware of the sequence of events, he knows Veronica’s feelings and he purposefully omitted the name of his sex partner in Poughkeepsie, Tramps and Thieves because of it. Did Logan choose Madison as a sex partner to get back at Veronica? No, I don’t think so. The two of them run in the same social circles, and it probably just happened organically. Season 3 Logan wasn’t really vicious, just mopey. It may have crossed his mind, but I don’t think it’s the reason it happened. (I will say that I hate it when people claim that Madison must have preyed on a drunk, depressed Logan and put the blame for the encounter on her. Remember his hookup with that girl on the beach, who he called cheap but still accepted a blowjob from? Logan doesn’t need to be wasted to sleep with someone he looks down on).

@krristenbell-- im with V on this. I love Logan but he must’ve known how much pain Madison had caused Ronica, and (this may sound bad) but i think Logan might have chosen Madison purposely to make a jab at V. However, i don’t think he thought he’d hurt Veronica as much as he did

@saluteyourshorts-- I honestly think it's almost as bad as if he had cheated on her. Like you said he knew exactly how much she hated Madison and about her part in what happened at Shellys party. I can't believe that he didn't think about her and how much it would hurt her when he decided to sleep with Madison.

#ask the fandom #vmhq #veronica mars #atf 3x12 #atf logan #atf veronica #atf madison #vm meta #meta 3x12 #meta logan #meta veronica #meta logan x veronica #atf logan x veronica #meta madison #madisongate #logan echolls

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