#like sam KNOWS that bad wasn't fully in control of himself but that doesn't stop him from having horrible trauma surrounding him

[ambersock]

I feel like Dean has tried to kill sam quite a bit throughout the 15 seasons of supernatural

Like I know they've both tried to kill each other because of various supernatural beings cursing or possessing them, but it kind of feels like dean holds it against sam more than sam holds it against dean. Sam almost always immediately offers forgiveness and says he knows it wasn't dean, but dean doesn't really say the same in return. It's like he holds on to so much against sam and he can never let it go, not the same way he can for literally anybody else. But it's just wild to me that with all that he holds against sam, sam never does the same back, he doesnt bring up all the times dean has harmed/tried to kill him (or if he does I just haven't made it to that episode yet)

Anyway there's no real question here I just kind of wanted to rant about sam

Funny you should bring that up, I have a fic for that:

Your feelings about Dean holding things against Sam are absolutely valid and fully supported by canon, and I've got concrete examples below. Warning, there are spoilers through s10 if you haven't gotten that far.

1x10 Asylum

While under the influence of Ellicott, Sam tries to shoot Dean. Afterwards, Sam apologizes, but Dean doesn’t accept it. Dean relents only after Sam asks if they need to talk about it.

2x14 Born Under a Bad Sign

Meg shoots Dean while possessing Sam. After Meg is exorcised, while Sam is in pain from a severe burn with a hot poker, Dean punches him.

4x14 Sex and Violence

Dean tries to kill Sam with an axe and is stopped at the last second by Bobby. The next day (4x15), after Sam has already apologized multiple times for what was said under the siren’s influence, we get Dean’s passive-aggressive, downright whiney “I don't want to be holding you back or nothin’.” There is no apology from Dean for the things he said or, more importantly, for trying to kill Sam.

8x06 Southern Comfort

Dean tries to shoot Sam while under the influence of the Confederate soldier’s ghost. Afterwards, Sam is justifiably angry about the things Dean said, but the very next episode, it’s like nothing ever happened and the first thing Sam does is try to ease Dean’s guilt about leaving Cas in Purgatory.

Now here’s the kicker: the things that Dean said while possessed were things that he never stopped holding against Sam even after Sam spent 180 years being tortured in the cage. Some of which Dean even admitted weren’t Sam’s fault back in 5x05. But wait, there’s more: he also held Sam coming back without a soul against him, something that was obviously out of his control. “But,” you may say, “he just said those things because he was possessed.” To which I respond by pointing out that the laundry list of Sam’s failures that Dean called out in 10x23 were the same things he called Sam out for while possessed: "All right. Well, I'm just spit-balling here, but if I were you, uh… Ruby, killing Lilith, letting Lucifer out, losing your soul, not looking for me when I went to Purgatory"

(And BTW, I have a fic for that too. A few, actually.)

10x03 Soul Survivor

Dean psychologically assaults Sam with the most emotionally damaging things he can think of to say, then hunts him down and tries to brain him with a hammer. Sam responds by running out to “pick him up a big ol’ bag of crap food and stuff it in his face” himself.

10x23 Brother’s Keeper

Dean lures Sam to the restaurant to kill him, calls him evil, tells him he deserves to die, tells him it was a mistake to stop Sam from sacrificing himself in 8x23. Sam responds by telling him, “You will never, ever hear me say that you -- the real you -- is anything but good.”

#dean critical #dean canon #sam and forgiveness #dean and grudges #ask

[deerfests]

I find it interesting that Alan sort of initiated Elias’ (sp?) plan and had Sam bring him out of the closed space “for therapy reasons” but didn’t go through with attacking Sam 👀😶🤔 Did Alan really think he was going to have full control of the situation (a false confidence because Sam has said before he’d fought the impulse knowing he had Alan around and/or because Sam had fought it for so long already and *wanted* to get better?) OR is there some part of him that just couldn’t bring himself to attack Sam because he sympathizes with him on some level 👀 like he subconsciously chose Sam over Elias (sp?) …

I honestly have no doubts that seemingly Alan did want to try Elias' plan of going down swinging but they both got cold feet by the end... I think Alan through, actually fully believed, that he had some control of the situation as long as Sam was trying. So maybe he figured that with that advantage, he could do something... But as far as his cold feet and not doing anything by the end -- well, maybe he just doesn't have it in him by the end, even in such an extreme situation? Simply scared? It's really strange. He surely didn't think Sam was going to sit and listen to Elias now, did he? Not to mention Elias wasn't even remotely capable to defend himself over being bound? I really think it was a dumb decision making but I can forgive Alan on account of everything being all high-stress ever since he got kidnapped.

As far as projecting his own failures as a father to his son, Ezra, onto Sam... I honestly would hope not for my own selfish reasonings, but I can believe it. A fear I have for the show is that they'll try to make the Alan&Sam dynamic be a father-son one. I can see it as very likely, however. I can't see it as a stand-in with Elias though, because I honestly believe that with Elias it was merely his empathy trying to save the poor dude. Maybe even a vague hope of getting Elias out so he could be found, too.

Another few things to point out is that Alan yelled for Candace when Sam was attacking Elias so maybe he actually hoped for a repeat of the last time and to stop Sam like that. Also, he did see himself insist on a few things and Sam listen to him-- surely, that helped the false confidence a lot. Maybe, due to all of this, he did really think Sam was going to be able to control himself and not attack him-- I think he really believed he could do something good with the therapy session (in a scenario it wasn't a disguised attack on Sam?).

I think it's very likely Alan is feeling at least some small sympathetic emotions towards Sam, as Sam has gone into some amount of detail about his abuse and such. I think Alan is definitely empathetic enough to feel bad for him-- but it might be conflicted with his disgust at Sam as his captor. I find that angle interesting, myself. I was wondering if on some level they're going to play into the Stockholm Syndrom concept because they definitely have a setup for it but I also can foresee them completely neglecting that. Which would sadden me... To clarify, I don't necessarily mean it in some fucked up romance sense, but more in a way that would result in Alan feeling some sort of positive emotion towards Sam and trying to help him in earnest.

I guess I have a lot of questions and ideas/theories, but really -- the show is pretty wild with some of its decisions so I can't really answer with full confidence. Despite that, I feel you are pointing out some really interesting perspectives for sure! And I'm really excited to watch episode 6 and be even more baffled.

#long post / #decaykid #ask

[bigboobyhalo]

I want to see a sam and bad post egg confrontation. I want to see how it'd go.

#I think it'd be like. bad genuinely apologizes and is like #'you never ever have to forgive me or be my friend again I just needed you to know that' #and sam is like 'I have so much trauma surrounding you and I can't hear your voice without remembering the taste of my own flesh' #'but I understand that wasn't truly you and even though we can't be friends anymore because of this I forgive you' #and bad nods in understanding and they both part ways and it's very bittersweet #like sam KNOWS that bad wasn't fully in control of himself but that doesn't stop him from having horrible trauma surrounding him #so even if he can forgive him. they just can't be friends again. and bad accepts that. #also bad walks away solemnly and right as he exits frame ponk hits sam with his supreme-branded sports car killing him instantly

[skipcount1]

For the ask game, the eggpire wins AU where the eggpire takes over the entire smp while having the resistance at their mercy and Ponk & Awesamdude.

okay i weote this very late and i am incomprehensible rn but

tw for chracter death, torture and mind control

If Ponk didn't know better, he'd think Sam was actually dead.

He's not, obviously, just still. The Egg is bizarrely attached to him - it'd throw a fit if he died for good. If something was actually wrong with him, the Egg would scream at whoever was around to help him.

Which is fucking weird. Ponk can still remember Sam telling them what his own flesh tasted like a few months ago - the fact that the entity that drove him to that is suddenly so attached is weird as hell. Maybe. They have a theory on it.

Sam was the hardest to break. Almost everyone else went - not easy, easy isn't the right word, but they succumbed pretty quickly. You're vulnerable when you respawn. After the Banquet, it was easy for the Egg to just tug a bit on the right strings, and bam. A new member of the Eggpire, willing and anxious to serve, if a bit disoriented. But Sam - 

Sam disappeared. For months. When they found him, he was easy to capture. With the Crimson constantly searching for him, all his energy had been devoted to evading its reach, leaving little time to care for himself. And when they dragged him down to the Egg, who'd laughed and clapped its hands together like a child being given a toy, he'd pretended like he wasn't afraid. He was, obviously - you'd have to be stupid to think he wasn't - but the Egg had been angry regardless. It demanded Sam give in, and although he'd been shaking so badly Ant and Bad were the only reason he was standing, he'd refused.

The Egg's tactics aren't exactly nice. Skeppy burned, Puffy died, Sapnap suffocated, and they've all lost themselves to its demands. Sam ate himself. And Sam spent hours alone with the Egg, fighting off its effects as the rest of the revolution succumbed. 

Ponk isn't sure why the Eggpire turned to him as a solution. Maybe because they couldn't find Tommy, maybe because they thought Sam would realize the consequences of his refusal, maybe because they were hoping Ponk could convince him.

Maybe because out of everyone, they were okay with losing Ponk. Even at the Banquet, before the war, they were okay with breaking their loyalty pact. They kept the plan a secret. They let her believe they were going to change. And then they would let her walk into the most dangerous situations alone. They let her serve as a guinea pig for the Egg's wants. And when the Egg weighed the one member who still hadn't fully lost herself against the Egg's favorite nuisance -

The rest of the Eggpire followed it's will.

("My friends are still inside of you," Sam muttered. He was bleeding heavily from a wide gash on his forehead. "I - you're still there, right?"

Ponk thought of empty hallways, cold soup, the dullest blades left behind.

I'm not sure, Sammy.)

So. They let Ponk die, and they made Sam watch, and Sam's will died.

He doesn't fight anymore. He just lies on a bed in a dark room, eyes closed, and waits for night.

Waits for them.

And Ponk is more than happy to arrive.

He ducks between the wall and the door, flopping down on Sam's side. He shifts, a flash of surprise crossing his face he somehow manages to keep entirely silenced. If either of them make a noise, they're fucked. 

It doesn't stop her from squirming under his remaining arms, pressing her head into his neck. He repositions his arms, squeezing gently as she attempts to jiggle her shoulder into a comfortable spot. He's warm - she's cold, she knows she's cold, but he's warm enough for the both of them. She presses her head into his chest. His heartbeat pulses, warm and steady, next to her ear. 

It's a good sound.

[gemsofthegalaxy]

ugh i've been reading different takes, most of which are fairly well thought out, etc and I just can't fully decide how i feel. Please note, I've only watched the show one time so I'm going off memories and this is a post on tumblr.org explaining my feelings and impressions, not a detailed literary analysis for submission to a journal (my MA isnt even in english lit or film studies 😘)

I did generally like the Falcon and the Winter Solider but I still feel like, I dunno, a little off about Bucky? I also felt like Sam was just somehow underutilized or something, like, I dunno. So it's not like it's just him. But I'm dissecting Bucky's character here first and foremost (and I'll comment a bit on the whole show in the end)

it was a decent show and my expectations for marvel are on the floor anyway but I still like to think about these things because, Head Full Cant Stop The Fixation even if i try.

it might just be the residual fuckiness of Endgame that is shaking me. Like, Bucky should probably actually move towards being resentful of, or angry at, Steve for a while. I DO think the indication that his identity was wrapped up in how Steve saw him, that Steve was his moral compass etc was Good, in line with what we've seen of him before and something I personally agree with for his characterization. But there wasn't really any sense of acknowledgement for the way Steve chose to abandon him, which means it feels like something is missing. To me, at least.

Other than this, I still do feel a little iffy with the "Was he a villain or a victim" question. And to address some of those takes I've been reading, yes we've established before (in CW, whathaveoyu), he was a victim more than anything. and I will say, his seeking to make amends/atone of his own accord is fair, I can see how that would be healing. I also agree that his therapist and Zemo are not "reliable" sources when it comes to his character, they are both clearly biased as hell.

I also feel like there was a lot of time dedicated to insinuating that Bucky was in fact responsible for his actions with HYDRA, and I don't personally remember a time when Bucky or anyone else ever directly challenged that line of thinking to the face of those people. and some may say "well why do you need him to challenge that, he's not just some no-agency waif, people don't have to rush to his defense. he can handle it and we already know how he feels" and, like, sure, I guess. of course Bucky can't control how people think about him and what matters is what he thinks of himself. But, also, having other characters throw his trauma in his face a bunch of times just feels.... weird?

like one of the arguments I've seen is that people who are dissatisfied want him to be seen as "more vulnerable, more fragile, more feminine " , we want to see him "woobified", see his trauma displayed and drawn out for our sick twisted pleasure. which, like, wanting to see trauma played out on fictional characters is not inherently bad or morally objectionable, see the whole horror genre. and the other thing is that they did show us his trauma, such that it was thrown in his face often. From what I recall, He took this in stride and seemed to grow and heal regardless

again, though, I don't know. I do agree that the audience doesn't always need to be spoonfed things. And I vaguely recall Zemo might have been like "oh ho ho seems like I was a bit wrong about you" during their final confrontation before Bucky handed Zemo over to Ayo and I should probably confirm that, but ugh I've spent too long on this post already.

So i guess the thing is that they sorta pulled it off in the end? I think? if i'm remembering correctly anyway LOL. and on one hand it does make sense for them to show that arc and the change. but i'm still like at least a little frustrated that I personally felt beat over the head with instances of "You're at fault for being the Winter Solider" and Bucky being like "/shrug. i mean, maybe, I guess, not really, but yeah" until Sam tells him "you've gotta stop letting other people decide who you are and decide for yourself who you are" and Bucky is like "yeah"

but, yeah, if he was already in that place at the Beginning of the series, where does the change and growth go from there? It does make sense for him to be grappling with how his body was used for violence. I guess it feels like it just didn't get as in depth with that aspect of it. I don't know what I'm actually looking for, though.

That's another thing people have said, like, "okay, if you didn't like how his trauma was displayed or the ways he grew and change, what DID you want to see?" and for that one, I actually don't know. I do think it woulda been nice to see a bit more emotional vulnerability? I guesss? I mean, I know one of my favourite parts was the "couples therapy" scenes (not just for the ship bait 😏) but when Bucky said "if Steve was wrong about you maybe he was wrong about me" because, even tho the therapist (who was shitty) was Displeased, i was like, wow that's actually probably a lot to admit out loud, Yeah it's not fair to put that onto Sam, but I was pleased he got that off his chest anyway? I thought they might have more discussions, except for the very end (which I also enjoyed) but. yeah.

And maybe I'm just mad that we didn't get to see this until now, as well? And that a significant amount of growth/change must have happened off screen, save for the one flashback of testing him with the trigger words (which was great!). Because we do get to see him feeling guilty, grapple etc. despite knowing it wasn't his fault, which, I mean, I think is fair given what he's been through, but I still don't know if I'd say he was often "emotionally vulnerable" (and i don't think you need to fully woobify someone to show them as emotionally vulnerable.. and vulnerability isn't a Bad Horrible Nasty Thing)

LIKE LITERALLY, though, i don't know. I keep flipflopping. do I love it? do I hate it? do I just want to go back to stucky-healing-avengers-tower-2014 vibes? (yeah, i've been doing the latter for like 2 weeks now. it's fun). am i just pissed they assassinated Steve Rogers' character and we just have to move forward with that? (like objectively, yes.)

Maybe it was just, like, there was so much stuff jammed into the show? like we had Bucky's growth, Zemo's whateverthefuck, John Walker Cap, Karli and the Flagsmashers, Sam's becoming Captain America, Isiah's story, and the Boat Stuff, like. OH almost forgot about Sharon and the Powerbroker stuff.

like yeah all those things were all intertwined and they did it somewhat smoothly given the sheer number of them, but perhaps we didn't need ALL of them? like that's a lot of Significant Characters and a lot of plot to be juggling all at once for a limited series.

i guess one of the eternal Marvel Problems is that they are simultaneously 1) not fussed about making sure everything lines up perfectly with their other products because that's impossible and they're all written by different teams and 2) making sure their current movie/show IS setting up what's coming next at least in characters/plotlines even if it won't be fully cohesive after the fact

so while I did enjoy the series, maybe it mostly just would have benefited from paring down the amount of significant plots/people and dedicating more time to the actual leads (shocker) and then they could have had more vulnerability without sacrificing the resiliency in Bucky specifically.

but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ i've already spent WAY too much brain power caring about this Goddamn Marvel Product .

In conclusion,

Idk

#long post