#liliana talks

[simonghostrileys]

man i really want to get back to giffing and enjoy fandoms and create content every day bc i've gotten way too obsessed with a character but i just can't :(

#liliana talks #i can't bring myself to get into shows or movies everything is so uninteresting to me #i can barely get to like characters these days #the last character i got obsessed with was ghost from the cod mw2 reboot and that game came out almost a year and a half ago #since then he's been the only character in my mind bc i just can't get to like any of the other stuff that's coming out #idk if i'm getting old mentally and that's why i'm so uninterested on everything or if it's something else #but i really miss the days where i was constantly creating and my creations were enjoyed by others #and their enjoyment motivated me to keep creating for said character/fandom

[yashley]

Then why are you here? What is it you want? I want to free you.

#critical role #cr lb #ygifs #cr3 #imogen #liliana temult #maybe a bitch cried and that bitch was me #anyway the psychology of imogen using her responses as questions to get liliana to talk it out more it's so good #the 90 episode payoff is SO GOOD FOR ME #the TWO 31 rolls like the dice said it's laura bailey guys #also like it has to be ludinus planted that liliana's go-to is the ''children'' like something's not right there matt #it's so reset to factory settings and strange that she's hollowly committed to a concept that isn't even actually real #but it Was real for liliana when she first set out to protect her daughter #like how really All There can you be when your work husband is ludinus daleth #imogen getting her conversation I'm just framing it

[revvethasmythh]

You know, I think there's something so, so insidious to the idea that Orym's perspective of the Vanguard is "flawed/human" or that him repeatedly reminding his friends what the Vanguard does (kill innocents to achieve their means) "blocks nuance" in the conversation, etc, because it implies that, in this mythical "objective" perspective that apparently exists, the Vanguard aren't so bad. If only Orym could put aside his petty grievances, such as the murder of his father and husband, and let people be nuanced about this situation, he'd see there's two sides to this story. And why discount the Vanguard's perspective just because *checks notes* they're a massive, manipulative cult that preys on vulnerable people to join their ranks and turns them to violence, or that they work with a centuries-old fascist eugenicist literally mind-controlling psychic government with the goal of freeing a creature that could very well destroy the world as we know it and even if it doesn't, will leave an enormous power vacuum for that fascist government to potentially occupy when they invade Exandria?

I think there's some misconception people have that they think war shouldn't ever be personal and if it does become personal for someone then their logic is too clouded by their feelings to see the situation clearly, just automatically. And perhaps sometimes, in some contexts, this can be true! But not here. It's actually quite cut and dried that Orym's "flawed, human" perspective is the one reminding everyone of the human cost to Ludinus' grand plans, all in the name of so called "progress"

#not to mention so many of the people i see saying stuff like this are the first to call you misogynist for hot takes such as #''liliana seems untrustworthy and in WAY too deep in this cult in a ways that is actually genuinely scary'' #i'm so serious about this you guys. this is an autoblock topic for me. if i see people talking shit they are GONE #i'm done with the orym discourse i am sick of it #thankfully i haven't seen much of it on tumblr but GOD on twitter. jesus god in motherfucking heaven #cr spoilers #not really but just in case

[porterprophet]

also the fact that liliana scried on laudna to find imogen. and has used laudna in a dream to lure imogen. like. mama knows what’s up.

#critical role #cr3 #c3e91 #cr spoilers #liliana temult #imodna #if it doesn’t come up i’d be fucking surprised #what if she tries to shovel talk laudna #can you imagine

[utilitycaster]

I feel like we as a fandom had a lot of this conversation during Campaign 2 but redemption, however you may interpret it, is a process. It is not a binary of redeemed and not redeemed. And in the world of a D&D actual play, a lot of the hard decisions really come down to "is the harm this person did actively ongoing, or is it a past action with ongoing ramifications" and "will they stop doing this continued harm quickly enough for it to matter." It sounds cold to say that it's a risk-benefit analysis, but on some level, it has to be be. I think Bor'Dor was likely redeemable in some abstract sense, but could Team Issylra do it with the time and resources they had without risking their own lives? Probably not. I think the same is true with Liliana: if they had months in which to do this - and they have been contacting her on and off for a couple months, and every effort failed - maybe, but the clock's run out.

#like. i think the liliana v. essek discussion is a very thorny one though one i'm personally willing to have #but a big part of it is that his great transgression was already in the past and he hadn't done much more other than cover it up since #so it's like. yeah they can give him that time #i also tbh think that the fact they found out about him just before the peace talks was a major factor #if the war was still raging...perhaps the response would have been very different #critical role #cr spoilers #cr discourse #anyway. the coin flip should always land on its side.

[criticalbeauregard]

i’m not saying liliana doesn’t care for imogen but i don’t care for the “you only get one mom” thing and the implication that family inherently has a base level of love and care possible for you, as if it’s impossible for someone’s mom to just fucking suck!

#not necessarily the case for imogen but talking like that’s not a possibility is grating #critical role #cr spoilers #c3e89 #imogen temult #liliana temult #cr discourse

[caeslxys]

I’ve mentioned this elsewhere but it feels relevant again in light of the most recent episode. Something that’s really fascinating to me about Orym’s grief in comparison to the rest of the hells’ grief is that his is the youngest/most fresh and because of that tends to be the most volatile when it is triggered (aside from FCG, who was two and obviously The Most volatile when triggered.)

As in: prior to the attack on Zephrah, Orym was leading a normal, happy, casual life! with family who loved him and still do! Grief was something that was inflicted upon him via Ludinus’ machinations, whereas with characters like Imogen or Ashton, grief has been the background tapestry of their entire lives. And I think that shows in how the rest of them are largely able to, if not see past completely (Imogen/Laudna/Chetney) then at least temper/direct their vitriol or grief (Ashton/Fearne/Chetney again) to where it is most effective. (There is a glaring reason, for example, that Imogen scolded Orym for the way he reacted to Liliana and not Ashton. Because Ashton’s anger was directed in a way that was ultimately protective of Imogen—most effective—and Orym’s was founded solely in his personal grief.)

He wants Imogen to have her mom and he wants Lilliana to be salvageable for Imogen because he loves Imogen. But his love for the people in his present actively and consistently tend to conflict with the love he has for the people in his past. They are in a constant battle and Orym—he cannot fathom losing either of them.

(Or, to that point, recognize that allowing empathy to take root in him for the enemy isn't losing one of them.)

It is deeply poignant, then, that Orym’s grief is symbolized by both a sword and shield. It is something he wields as a blade when he feels his philosophy being threatened by certain conversational threads (as he believes it is one of the only things he has left of Will and Derrig, and is therefore desperately clinging onto with both bloody hands even if it makes him, occasionally, a hypocrite), but also something he can use in defense of the people he presently loves—if that provocative, blade-grief side of him does not push them—or himself—away first.

(it won’t—he is as loved by the hells as he loves them. he just needs to—as laudna so beautifully said—say and hear it more often.)

#critical role #cr spoilers #bells hells #orym of the air ashari #cr meta #imogen temult #ashton greymoore #liliana temult #this is genuinely completely written in good faith as someone who loves orym #but is also about orym and so will inevitably end up being completely misconstrued and made into discourse. alas #I could talk about how Orym’s unwillingness to allow the hells to actually finish/come to a solid conclusion on Philosophy Talk #is directly connected to one of the largest criticisms of c3 (that they are constantly having these conversations) #all day. alas. engaging with orym’s flaws tends to make people upset #it is ESP prevelant when he walks off after exclaiming ‘they (vangaurd) are NOT right’ #which was not only never said but wasn’t even what they were talking about #he even admits as much to imogen like ten minutes later! that he is incapable of viewing it objectively #which is 100% justifiable and understandable but simultaneously does not make his grief alone the most important perspective in the world #also bc i fear ppl will play semantics on my tags yes the line ‘i hope she’s right’ was said but it was from ASHTON #who does not believe they are at all and wasn’t saying they actively WERE right. orym just heard something to latch onto and ran with it #ultimately there is a reason orym only admitted that he was struggling when he had stepped away to talk to dorian #who has not been around and thusly has not changed once n orym's eyes #and it isn't that the hells never check in or care. they do. they have several times over #it is dishonest to say they haven't #the actual reason is that all of this is something He Is Aware Of. he doesn't mention it bc he KNOWS it's hypocritical and selfish #he says as much! #EXHALES. @ MY OWN BRAIN CAN WE THINK ABT MOG AGAIN. FYRA RAI EVEN. FOR ME. #posting this literally at 8 in the morning so I can get my thoughts out of my brain but also attempt to immediately make this post invisibl

[densitywell]

Marisha's comment about how Relvin is one of those parents who ended up with a child they didn't know what to do with really gets to the heart of it, i think, and is such a good way to tie the fantasy element of Imogen's powers into things more tangible. because there are really a lot of parents like Relvin in real life, who have a child with the person they're happily married to and never expect to be left alone with the kid. or who expect a ""normal"" (read: cisgender and heterosexual, able-bodied, relatively neurotypical and obedient, etc.) child and end up with one who's ""difficult"", who demands more or different of them than what they believe they signed up for. and that's not entirely entitlement on a parent's part- many cultures' common frameworks of parenthood and child-rearing do not include space for these children. it makes sense that Relvin was unprepared. raising any child is difficult, and raising a child whose needs you were never taught how to accommodate, who the world is so cruel to, is even more challenging.

and yet. and yet, the person who bears the brunt of the harm in these situations will always be the child. they're the ones who have to live every moment of how the world treats them, without the support that their parent is supposed to provide them. and when asked to care for his child even when she turned out to be ""difficult"", Relvin couldn't. for entirely sympathetic reasons, of course. he tried, in his own way. i don't think he's a bad guy. but he's let his own broken heart bleed onto his daughter. he hasn't been able to give her much else.

#imogen temult #critical role #cr #cr3 #like it's really sad what happened to relvin we all know this. but seeing how dani scrambled over herself last night #to clarify that she DOESN'T think relvin is an awful person just bc she thinks he's a shitty dad made me feel for her so much bc like. #sometimes the Posts. about him. feel a little “why do bash dead beat dads but never question if the kid has bad vibes.” so. #especially in comparison to liliana who is 1. worse than relvin 2. still sympathetic 3. more interesting to a nearly comical degree #and while he gets so much sympathy On Here ppl mostly post abt her to wish for her death or call her a bitch. so! #parenting talk is a minefield bc some ppl resent the idea that a child deserves anything more from a parent than basic needs being met #and refuse to include emotional needs among them. so like idk if that's your thing i don't rlly give a shit man #crposting

[dadrielle]

"Why did I want them, I don't even know them"

AND WHAT IF I CONTINUE TO AGGRESSIVELY TAP THE *IMOGEN AND ASHTON ARE REFLECTIONS OF EACH OTHER* SIGN?

#critical role #critical role spoilers #imogen temult #ashton greymoore #god i hope that they talk about liliana together

[simonghostrileys]

just want to let y'all know that if you ever plan on softblocking me you better block me bc i can't remember every person i follow and if i find you i'll follow you bc i'm so clueless i just won't know you softblock me

#liliana talks #saying this bc i just noticed my following count dropped by 2 #which means two ppl softblock me #and if they didn't block me i'll just follow them again #bc i have no idea who softblock me and i'll be like 'oh wasn't i already following them?? idk FOLLOW' #i follow close to 550 blogs i can't remember them all lol

[undead-knick-knack]

I think Liliana's "Did she know?" wasn't about her, it was, "Did Imogen know that bombing me would also kill these children?"

Hey remember that time Imogen leveled a city block? Are you sure Liliana didn't just go boom herself?

Also we don't even know who's dead, including these "children" (the youngest of whom would be about 16 and are soldiers for an occupying force), so you're making a lot of assumptions there buddy

Maybe Liliana just got big mad that a group of people tried to kill her ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#also i'd sargue the fault still lies with liliana because she's the one bringing these -children- to a planet for hostile purposes #like full offense anon but what are you even talking about #the episode ended on a cliffhanger #we don't know what happened yet #hold your fucking horses #anon #anonymous #cr discourse #cr spoilers #critical role #liliana temult #cr3 #cr c3 #cr campaign three #critrole #crit role

[revvethasmythh]

I don't really understand the idea some people have that being a hater somehow precludes you from thinking a character is complex. like, yes, absolutely, [insert character here] is complex, but I am a hater first and foremost and if I can write a post that dresses them head to toe in clown gear, that is my gods given right. *bangs gavel* you are sentenced to life at the circus, motherfucker. go juggle while i point and laugh. this is what true joy looks like

#liliana they could never make me like you #but no really did you know you don't have to discuss EVERY facet of a character in EVERY post to prove you understand them? #sometimes you can just write simple hate posts about villains and enjoy your life #this is about all of the vanguard leaders btw not just liliana #if they're going to act like clowns i'm going to talk about them like they're at the circus! #this does not mean I think they're (all) flatly villainous with nothing going on in their brains #in my posts they are clowns dancing for my entertainment because this is fandom and that is FUN

[baddealbones]

So it's the One Who Sleeps' plan that led to the slaughter of Orym's family (and many others)? Thanks Lil, we now know for sure that we don't want this bitch out.

"Ludinus is just a puppet" is not a good argument for the non-problematicness of the one puppeting him.

#we already did #but the point stands #Liliana is talking nonsense #cr spoilers #critical role #critical role spoilers #cr3 #bells hells #c3e92

[utilitycaster]

Something also to ponder: there's a very valid reason why Ashton is so absolutely down on Liliana, and that's "oh, your parent's in a cult? Oh, and they say they're doing something for you? Something that will be so good for everyone? Yeah, funny thing about that."

#critical role #ashton greymoore #liliana temult #like that's actually the heartbreaking thing #the way ashton and orym talk to Imogen? that's how you talk to someone who's considering a cult to say girl do not #the way laudna talks to her? that's how you talk to someone who you think has already been sucked in

[starrixle]

I love your ocs! They’re so cool and pretty!!

Also how did Spencie become a vampire? Was she just born like that or did someone bite her??

tysm !! ive also been working on a love fangs lore doc (which has been taking a couple weeks bc i haven't found much time to fully focus on it) which basically explains most of the story, but here's a summary:

spencie is a huge fan of the veinbreakers, but mostly because he has a huge crush on liliana. she would attend their concerts very often, and one time she impulsively (and regretfully) decided to sneak backstage once the show was over, since there was no form of security protecting the area. while snooping around, liliana catches spencie and questions why he's here, thinking he's some dangerous intruder. when she realizes that they're just a fan that doesn't mean any harm, liliana decides to become friends with spencie (except their relationship is entirely one-sided, lili doesn't actually care about him) some events happen over the course of around a month or so, and both of them get "closer" with each other. spencie is still crushing hard on liliana, but eventually he gets tricked into getting bit by her after thinking they were going to kiss. spencie turns into a vampire shortly afterwards and lili cuts contact with him. she didn't mean to turn spencie into a vampire, she was fully expecting them to be dead after biting him. somehow, spencie survived.

i promise ill get to sharing the lore doc soon (which will include a much more detailed explanation of this), my mind has just been all over the place with shit lmao

#love fangs #spencer love #liliana solstice #starrixle talks

[scriptmyworld]

“Are you going to set him free? Predathos?”

“You deserve to be free.”

“At what cost, Mama?”

#SO GOOD #laura said enough daddy issues let’s get deep into the mommy issues #liliana keeps talking about protecting imogen but isn’t willing to sacrifice her search for answers to do so #critical role #cr spoilers #cr liveblog #imogen temult #liliana temult #c3e68 #predathos