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musclesandhammering · 6 months

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I’ve heard so much criticism about how Loki should’ve been the one to kill He Who Remains instead of Sylvie- because he deserved to be the one the free the timeline, because he deserved to represent chaos but instead ended up representing order, because having him side with a dictator was ooc, etc.

But I would just like to point out that it’s established now that HWR wanted them to kill him. That was literally part of his predetermined plan to reincarnate and stay in power. By doing so, Sylvie continued to follow right down the path he paved for her. She wasn’t being a rebellious hero, she was being a pawn.

Loki saw through the manipulation- he immediately smelled something fishy and refused to just mindlessly go along with it. And if Sylvie had listened to him and just took a minute to talk about it, Loki would’ve tried to come up with some other third option. Because that’s what Loki does- thinks outside the box, finds work-arounds, figures out clever ways to rebel against the status quo.

In that scene, Loki was the one refusing to play the part HWR wrote for him, and sylvie was the one being a perfect little cog in the machine. Despite the fact that he was actively being the voice of reason while she was being erratic and reckless… narratively speaking, he was chaos and she was order. It irritates me that people missed that.

#loki series #loki season 2 #loki 1x06 #loki 1x6 #antisylki #anti sylki #anti sylvie #not rly but I don’t feel like arguing with her stans #loki #he who remains #loki meta #loki series meta

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gods-of-mischief · 6 months

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I just want you to be okay...

#loki #sylvie #sylki #marvel #gif #kiss #loki and sylvie #1x06 #S01E06

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lamiaviridis · 3 months

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💚 ⸺ @unheald 𝐡𝐚𝐬 𝐛𝐞𝐞𝐧 𝐞𝐧𝐭𝐡𝐫𝐚𝐥𝐥𝐞𝐝 𝐛𝐲 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐄𝐧𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐭𝐫𝐞𝐬𝐬. ┆ WILL THEY, WON'T THEY RELATIONSHIP PROMPTS

i missed you more than you know. - from loki

His grasp around her waist was firm yet his touch was sincere as he tugged her forward, pressing their bodies 'gainst one another; as he stared with tender pools of verdant whilst speaking, she could sense his love for her slightly clouded by a lingering guilt, a discomfort of sorts. She didn't have to utilize too much of her telepathy nor delve too far into his psyche to seek what ailed him, knowing it at least pertained to He Who Remains and his Variant, though he was telepathically barricading her from seeing the full extent of what he'd experienced.

Vibrant emeralds, akin to the very jewel itself, follow every inch and study every feature of the trickster's visage, though she could not sense an inkling of a lie. He spoke the truth, albeit for now, thus she took his words as fact. She still found herself failing to keep the ever-erupting anxiety down, insecurities clawing and biting at the internal cavern of her bodice, fighting to escape and lay themselves barren, on display like that of a laughing stock. She shut her eyes, turning her head away from him whilst he still held her close.

Brows furrow, their sheer edges set in unison; an assemblage of worry and aggravation. ❛ You say such a thing, yet you're shutting me out. Something happened when you found He Who Remains. At the Citadel. Something you refuse to elaborate on. Something in which you're blocking me from seeing. Why ? ❜

#. ˚ ◞ ♡ IN CHARACTER ／ A love which is as unconditional as it is all-consuming.#unheald #;; btw this takes place at the very end of 1x06. she doesn't know what happened between loki and sylvie bc loki is blocking her from #;; seeing anything telepathically #;; and he's doing that bc he knows how jealous and insecure she is #;; but also bc he just really doesn't want to talk about it :(

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dailymarvelstudios · 1 year

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Jonathan Majors as He Who Remains Loki 1x06

#marveledit #lokiedit #loki #he who remains #jonathan majors #*gifs #dylan

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sylokis · 10 months

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"I just want you to be okay"

LOKI - 1X06 (FOR ALL TIME, ALWAYS)

#lokiedit #mcuedit #marveledit #sylki #loki tv #loki #sylvie #loki laufeyson #sylvie laufeydottir #loki series #loki x sylvie #lovie #mine

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holdfastperseus · 5 months

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So “Goodbyes” which is played during the Hug Scene in 1x06 has almost the exact same sound as “Complex and Many” which is played during Lokius goodbye in 2x06?

And the part where Loki hugged him has the exact same melody as when loki gripped mobius’ hand

#i just noticed this and legit fell out of my chair #what the actual f #this is just confirmation that we should’ve gotten that hug for S2 goodbye #marvel stop doing this to me I can’t even listen to a soundtrack in peace #Natalie Holt you’re a fuckin G #loki #lokius #mobius #Loki analysis

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aceofwhump · 7 months

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Day 8: Alternate Prompt: Betrayal

@whumptober @whumptober-archive

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sunflowerdigs · 3 months

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Eric Martin didn't even say anything particularly biased and people are still mad. Loki discovered this deep connection with Sylvie in S1 and it changed him. But his connection with Mobius changed him more and had a bigger effect because they actually got to know each other and became friends, and then came to trust each other because of that. How the turntables - "platonic" is actually a really meaningful word even when talking about romance. Sylvie and Loki never had a friendship, so when the romance crashed and burned, there was nothing to fall back on. Loki discovered in 1x06 that he and Sylvie didn't actually know each other, and that was that. No trust was possible and Sylvie walked away. But Mobius and Loki did the hard work, they built up trust through vulnerability, so they got the reward.

Yes, Loki was initially attracted to Sylvie, and that attraction was good for him because it led him to empathize with her and it improved his self esteem. Sylvie showed him the possibility that Mobius could only talk about, and it was exciting and beautiful. But attraction doesn't last, and Sylvie and Loki's attraction was mostly based on projection and a similar origin point. It's like 500 Days of Summer, except it's 12 Hours of Sylvie because Sylvie had shit to do.

#lokius #loki series #anti s*lki #i'm honestly not sure how to keep this off the dashes of s*lki fans on this misbegotten app but i'm trying

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musclesandhammering · 6 months

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What Actually Caused the Timeslipping?

I think it was actually a progression of things. The order of events goes:

Sylvie pushes Loki through a time door to the past TVA. The fact that regular tempads can’t even do time travel within the TVA and only He Who Remains’ tempad was able to shows just how impossible it’s supposed to be for anyone who isn’t He Who Remains. So Loki shouldn’t ever have been able to go to that specific spot in time-space, and because he did, it scrambled his personal physics in a way. Almost like the universe was looking at him and going “wait.. whaa- No no no. But..?”

He prunes himself and Mobius/OB extract him from the time stream. OB described this whole process as ‘releasing Loki from time’ so I think it essentially unanchored him from any specific timeline (this is why he didn’t go back to his nyc 2012 branch in 2x05). The extractor was supposed to, then, pull him back to the present- and it did!- but because his personal physics (for lack of a better term) were still scrambled, it didn’t actually fix the problem. In fact, it made the “problem” worse.

He’s exposed to a ton of temporal radiation when he bungees back to the loom room. It’s only for a split second, but Loki was out there with the raw time radiation, with no protective suit on, even closer to the loom than Mobius or Victor got. If he was having timey wimey instability issues before, that had to have made it worse.

#this is probably way off but it’s how I’m justifying it anyway #loki spoilers #loki season 2 spoilers #loki 2x01 spoilers #loki 2x05 spoilers #loki 1x06 spoilers #loki series #loki #sylvie #he who remains #Victor timely #Mobius #loki meta #loki speculation #loki theory

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lucianalight · 5 months

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Loki S2 Review

I rewatched S2 and I liked it even more on the second watch. I'm giving it a 6 out of 10 in average(8 for the finale). Since I didn't post a review week by week like for S1, I'm just going to talk about the main things I liked/disliked

The Improvements & Things I liked:

The pace and the narrative's tone and framing have changed. While the pace drops sometimes, these moments aren't as boring as S1. Meaning you don't want to constantly check when it's going to end(like you know, S1 and especially 1x06). The narrative is neutral and doesn't villain code Loki and hero code others. It doesn't turn Loki into a clown, a punching bag or someone who deserves humiliation(I guess they've done enough of that in S1). On the contrary the characters are shown as flawed people, with Loki being the most moral, considerate, logical and heroic amongst them.

They stated bluntly in episode 1, that what TVA used to do, were atrocities. That they were killing numerous innocent people who had a right to live their lives as they chose.

The characters were three dimensional, likable or tolerable despite their actions in S1. They showed remorse for the things they had done. Although the way the narrative chose to go about it in S1 still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It shouldn't happen to you for you to realize sth is wrong. But at least it was shown that the characters weren't slaughtering people mindlessly and some of them deep down knew it was wrong. Although the fact that they still did it, because of the "greater good", and "woe is me! It's not a comfort it's a burden" attitude about it is repulsive.

OB, Casey and Timely being funny, cute nerds and fanboys :D

Loki using amazing magical stuff and DID YOU SEE THE GREEN MAGICAL GLOW IN HIS EYES?*incoherent screaming*

No Romance. It was unnecessary and rushed in S1. This time they focused more on Loki needing friends and that was definitely a better choice imo and what they should have gone for in S1 too.

Sylvie's actions and personality framed as what they were. She wasn't put on a pedestal as this amazing different FeMaLe version of Loki. She was framed as a flawed character with wrong and right actions and beliefs.

Loki and Sylvie's talk in the pie land, about change, hope, fixing what's broken and being gods. That sigh before Loki saying "We are gods" with all the weight of the world on his shoulders. Wonderful acting.

The ending and its epic soundtrack.

Topics & Things That Could Have Been Handled Better:

The Topic of New York Invasion

"Sometimes a rage builds up and you just gotta let it out. Do you remember that time I was so angry with my father and my brother, I went down to Earth and I held the whole of New York city hostage with an alien army? Tried to use the mind stone on Tony Stark? It didn't work so I threw him off the building. It wasn't tactical. I lost it"

On the surface it looks like Loki's saying that's why he attacked New York and probably most people accept this without a second thought.

But the context of the scene matters. We see during the interrogation Mobius loses his temper. He was worried about Loki getting angry, but he was the one who loses his temper and hits Brad. Loki tries to calm him down by sympathizing with him to try and see what caused his behavior. It's the same thing he did for Thor in the first movie, before coronation and after it, while Thor was nervous and angry. What he says about New York while isn't the whole truth, it also isn't untrue. He was angry with Thor and Odin but as we know his anger and thoughts were influenced by the scepter. We also know Loki doesn't like to talk about his time with Thanos or being tortured. Instead he uses a half-truth, sth that is in character for Loki.

So the scene can be rationalized by this analysis but it's still annoying that this analysis is even needed. They should have been clear about the scepter's influence especially when mcu confirmed it.

Loki thinking about Thor's change as being a weakness. While both Thor and Loki were groomed and taught to consider being soft as a weakness, that wasn't Loki's true feelings. At least I don't think someone who prefers words and magic-that are considered a weakness in Asgard-over brawn thinks like that. His goal in the first movie was to goad Thor into fighting him. So the line should have been sth like this: "Asgard taught us being soft is a weakness, so I used that against Thor to goad him into a fight. I said he's gone soft…"

Plotholes and things that weren't explained.

Why Loki and Sylvie weren't sent to their original timelines like others? And why neither of them showed any interest in seeking their family? You're telling me Loki wants to see these people he knows for 10 seconds more than Frigga or Thor? OOC.

Sylvie's sudden mastery of magic since 1x06 isn't explained. She didn't know much, but then suddenly could do everything Loki did. I mean I can headcanon that her and Loki linking their power taught her some things but these sudden developments without any explanations are annoying.

Loki's genderfluidity. No mention of it at all. Although I believe that no representation is better than bad representation. And you should leave a topic alone if you don't understand it, otherwise you're gonna mess it up. Because bad rep can be more harmful. And so maybe it was a good thing mcu let that one go. But they could still fix it with some shapeshifiting, explaining its difference with illusions and Loki confirming that he is comfortable in her female form.

Loki's clothes. It's probably not that important in comparison with other issues but I really hate that beige suit. Why Sylvie who doesn't even want to be Loki and wasn't in Asgard since childhood changes into an Asgardian outfit for a fight and not Loki? Yeah I get it. It was because of the last reveal and transformation and finding his identity blah blah blah but at least they could have gave him his old Asgardian clothes or he could change the suit's color ugh

Criticism & Things I didn't like:

The ooc moments for Loki in some comedic scenes. Especially in episode 5. While the character has a comedic potential, it's not based on clownery or clumsiness. The best humorous moments for Loki are the ones where he outwits others, use sarcastic language or he is being outwitted despite his careful plans.

Certain emotional stakes aren't clear from the start. The audience know that saving TVA is the right thing because it protects all the freed timelines but they don't know why they should care? Or more accurately why Loki is so emotionally invested in this goal. That gets answered in episode 5 and while Loki's talk with Sylvie is a good emotional scene, the fact that it's stated so late in the story, makes the first few episodes boring when it comes to saving TVA.

The main reason the emotional stakes aren't clear(at least for me), I believe is because most of the people Loki call them his "friends", haven't done anything to either deserve his friendship or aren't close enough to be considered a friend. Let alone someone Loki tries to move heaven and hell to be with them, instead of for example trying to find his brother and family. It is an issue which again is rooted in S1 and carried to S2. What happened in S1 wasn't therapy or a healthy friendship.

However, Loki being loyal to anyone who show him an ounce of affection or him being moral enough to try to save people are in character for him and that's sth good about it.

The torture scene.

The trick Mobius and Loki pulled was predictable as hell. I didn't even doubted Loki in TDW, let alone here. And even though I didn't believe for one second that Loki's actually going to hurt the guy, and he wasn't shown enjoying it, I still hated that he went along with the torture idea Mobius had come up with. Especially considering the fact that he was a victim of torture himself and never shown any sign in canon that he would torture someone. So yeah I hated that scene.

And why that scene was even necessary? Loki could get into X-5's mind when they weren't in TVA. We know he is capable of it. He did it both through mind stone in Avengers and in TR. how else they were going to delve into Mobius' problem though smh

But alright let's say they needed a scene like that. Still the whole Brad believing Mobius is against torture, and Loki's the one who would be in favor of it, is so fucking ridiculous. Any way you look at it, it has always been TVA and Mobius who did any torture we've seen during the two seasons. The tortures that Loki endured might I add. Even in the previous scene, it was Loki who didn't hit Brad and only tried to intimidate him non-physically by acting as a villain. It was Mobius who hit him, who was shown more affected by Brad's insults. So logically the scene they had planned to fool Brad, should have been played completely the opposite way. By having Mobius do the torture. At least it was recognized that the torture idea was from Mobius and both he and Loki gave the credits for it to Mobius.

Verity Willis. Hunter B15 unlike the Verity in comics, doesn't have a close friendship with Loki or truth detector powers. Not having a good friend like comics Verity for Loki, was such a wasted opportunity in the series.

Mobius saying to Loki "You're a man of action...". That was such a stupid, unnecessary line. As if the main difference between Loki and Thor wasn't Thor acting before thinking, and Loki thinking and planning before acting. While Loki is also a man of action, he is first and foremost a man of strategy. The only plausible explanation imo is that Mobius said it to not feel useless in comparison with Loki and his skills.

"Thor's not that tall". Yeah, no. I don't think Loki's reaction to seeing Thor and Odin's statues would be that. Knowing his brother and family were murdered by the very same people he's working with now. Remind me again why he's considering them "FrIeNdS"? Someone really needs to explain the concept of friendship to Loki. Or rather the writers of this show.

And while we are at it. Let's talk about how Loki's past and identity issues were completely swapped under the rug as if they were all magically fixed and didn't matter anymore. As if those weren't the most important part of his journey. Another issue rooted in S1.

Final Thoughts(for now :D)

Season 2 was definitely better than season 1. Not perfect, and not for those who care about OG Loki's issues. They set him on a completely different path in S1 and they messed up any chance to actually delve into his problems. So in S2 we're having a character that we're supposed to accept has moved on from certain issues, and now tries to find what he wants and where he belongs. Still, I think that they listened to the criticism for once as they tried to fix some of the problems of S1. After many years it didn't feel like that the creators hate the character, or using him as a prop, or a plot device. It was a story about Loki. A bittersweet story for the god of stories.

#me: i liked this season #also me: here's a list of all its issues :D #loki s2 review #long post #loki #loki series criticism #loki s2 positivity

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brsb4hls · 6 months

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Right, ok, philosophical meta time:

Loki had to do what he did!

Let's look at the last confrontation with HWR and go from there:

HWR: The coutcome to this equation remsins the same. You lose.

Loki: I know. I know.

HWR: Shake it off.

Loki: I'll change the equation. I'll break your loom.

HWR: But the loom prevents a brutal war. Where nothing survives. Not even the sacred timeline. Ok, let's try it this way: Every, every nonent of peace you've ever experienced was yours, because I was here. Alone. At the end of time. Keeping watch.

Loki: I understand.

HWR: If you're gonna break the loom, what do you think would happen to your friends?

Mhm, I made the tough choices, that's why I get the big chair. I keep us safe. Can't you see what I'm offering here is mercy?

Loki: For me? Or for you? No! I'll find another way.

HWR: OK. And around and around and around we go. Let's see. Make the hard choice. Break the loom and you cause a war that kills us all. Game over. Or kill her (Sylvie).

And we protect what we can. What are you gonna do?

So here's the dilemma:

The loom is actively killing branches, even if there is no tva, that steps in to prune. If no branches get pruned, the loom overloads and erases all the new branches. So with or without the loom, only the secret timeline exists.

HWR rigged the game in a way that Loki cannot win here. But something doesn't add up. If the loom overloads and deletes, there cannot be new Kangs emerging, even if Loki breaks the loom. With the loom acting as fail safe, there will only ever be the sacred timeline.

Because once broken, the loom destroys every branch and the sacred timeline just resets.

Meaning HWR incarcerated the whole universe, basically put it in a small corsett forever, and everytime a branch tries to break free, everyone on that branch dies.

Now, if Loki found a way to override the failsafe (which he did in the end) and free the universe, there is the danger of Kang variants showing up, destroying everything INCLUDING the sacred timeline.

So HWR's argument here is to better keep a tiny universe with a smaller amount of beings alive, then have no universe at all.

Which is also what Mobius argues for involuntarily (since he doesn't see the full picture at that moment).

He tells Loki killing one person and keeping others alive is the right choice, although it is hard and will scar you.

That' s one ethic approach. It's basically utilitarianism. The right choice is the one that benefits most.

Now Sylvie challenges that with another concept by telling Loki that he has no right to declare the sacred timeline superior to other lines, because lives on the sacred timeline can also be miserable and they are predestined. So someone who has a shitty life on the sacred timeline has no way of changing it ever.

Nobody can make a different choice, everyone is stuck. Loki for example, has to attack Thanos with what's basically a kitchen knife, despite being a powerful magic user and literal god, because that is supposed to happen.

The Loki that cast an illusion, hid from Thanos and survived, got pruned.

Apart from taking away people's choices, there is no new life, ever. Only a never ending circle.

So Sylvie argues, that instead of keeping a small amount of people safe, but basically miserable, let everyone chose their own destiny, even if it kills them in the end.

They would at least die being free.

Which is another ethical approach that values every single life and every choice.

And Loki choses freedom. For everyone but him. That's his burden.

But he is giving everyone an unimaginable gift.

He overrides the failsafe by powering the branches himself und ultimately defeats HWR. Which seemed impossible, given the scenario HWR set up.

Now for the Kangs that might destroy the multiverse:

That does not have to happen. The only thing set in stone is the sacred timeline.

HWR talks about the multiversal war in 1x06.

He says his variants kept peace with each other at first, then started a war, that almost

destroyed everything. Almost. Until HWR ended it by using the power of Alioth, the creature he discovered by chance, to built the tva and force the universe into the sacred timeline.

So can we really trust HWR?

No.

Why not?

1. He admitted to being afraid of his variants.

2. He did not plan on ending the war, it was a coincidence.

3. The war almost destroyed everything. It could have ended differently.

4. The war is only one possible outcome. There are infinite ways this could have gone.

5. If the post credit scene in Ant Man 3 referrs to HWR, he is the 'Exiled One'

An outcast. He could have exiled himself, like he said, or he is lying.

Look at all the possibilities in Endgame, where exactly one chance existed of beating Thanos, even if it seemed impossible.

How can we know (without a Dr Strange going through everything) that HWR offers the only option?

HWR cannot be trusted and the natural state of the universe is to be free and to expand indefinitely.

Free will is also a philosophical and religious core theme.

Free will enables people to make the wrong choice, but also to do right. It should be up to every individual themselves, otherwise they cannot evolve.

They're stuck.

And what does Mobius tell Loki his actual purpose was in 1x01?

To inspire people to become the best version of themselves!

And he did. But on his own terms and in a beautiful way.

#loki spoilers #loki #loki disney+#loki series #loki show #loki meta #free will #kang the conqueror #he who remains #mobius m mobius #sylvie #philosophy

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