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magpie-murder · 5 months

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i can't be the only one who's noticed just how fucked up the concept of loki joining the tva is, right? i personally haven't seen anyone talk about this but it's one of the main things that makes me so uncomfortable about the show.

like, let me describe this without using any of the language that the series does;

a secret police dedicated to killing entire groups of people "for the greater good," one day picks up a man from one of these groups and tells him that if he doesn't help them catch the person who is trying to take them down, they will straight up kill him.

he is then given a coat to wear, branded with the secret police's logo, as well as clarification in huge red letters that he is NOT one of the secret police— he is part of the group the secret police kills.

this secret police is marketed as morally gray, and the company who makes the show releases merch for you to dress up as the secret police (or as the group that they kill) for fun because they want you to think this is cute and aesthetic.

and also the secret police uses gas chambers.

oh and also also, people draw cutesy ship art of this man and the "good cop" cuddling, while the man is clearly labeled and wearing a bland jumpsuit that the secret police forces him to wear.

#anti loki series #anti loki show #loki show negativity #loki show criticism #loki show critical #loki series criticism #loki series critical #mcu critical #anti mcu #anti lokius #antisemitism #tw antisemitism

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dkmbookworm · 1 year

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Something that really pisses me off is this assumption that because you dislike the current direction with Loki and Thor’s characters, it must mean that you “hate comedy” and “want everything to be serious and gloomy”. As if the only form of comedy that exists is weird, random antics. What is this attitude that thor and loki were never funny in the previous films? The only difference is that the comedy was formed based on their personalities and conflicts with other people or situations, rather than just them being stupid or quirky.

#loki series negativity #loki series critical #anti thor ragnarok #anti thor love and thunder #anti mcu

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alwida10 · 5 months

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After the … horrible*cough* … most deep and tragic, but certainly not satisfying conclusion of the Loki series, I would like to randomly cite one of the writers of Thor (2011) with a random advise for aspiring and established script writers. 🙂

That’s all. 🙂

#loki series negativity #loki series criticism #Loki series critical #anti-Waldron #anti Kate Herron #anti Kate harron #sorry for my dyslexia #anyway #endless mcu salt #sarcasm #yes that introduction included some

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theshatteredsilhouette · 5 months

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Okay I finally figured out how to articulate why the Loki ending (and the final costume) is not hitting right (because frankly, it’s more than I expected from the show, and under other circumstances it might actually feel like it fits)

It’s like the writers since TDW looked at Avengers Loki and believed every lying word he said. They believed his god speech. They believed his glorious purpose speech. They believed he wanted to rule the world. And from that, they concluded that his biggest flaw is pride.

Everything in the series(and Ragnarok) is based on Loki being too proud. He needs to be taken down a peg—by the characters, by the story, everything. He needs to learn humility. So by the end, he goes to his finale knowing “what kind of god he needs to be”. Because he needs to be a better god, right? And the costuming reflects this: as a vessel of the story and Loki’s “lesson”, it strips away the armour, the leather, the finery, and shows a more humble god. The costume does its job well.

But humility isn’t Loki’s flaw. It’s Thor’s flaw. Thor’s entire first arc was about humility. But Loki? Loki’s flaw is envy.

Loki’s story was supposed to be about not belonging, about finding his place and finding (and accepting) himself. And tbh, the ending of the series could have worked really well with that! If it had been more about purpose, about finding Loki and where he belongs, it might have been a decent ending. But the path to get there never reflected any of that. It was all about stripping him down instead of putting together his pieces. Being a god was never the problem.

And I still think the mcu’s biggest mistake was separating Thor and Loki in the first place

#loki series critical #loki spoilers #anyway this is where I’m at #I try not to inundate this blog with critical stuff #but this is important to meeeee

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zylice · 3 months

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Tom Hiddleston always gets the short end of the stick when it comes to ‘Loki.’

- His show didn’t have showrunners that actually knew about or cared about his character

- The original script he was given was blacklisted in 2018

- Michael Waldron the show ‘creator’ is a ‘phile’ and a sicko overall.

- Kate Herron said that they ‘made things up as they went along.’

- They wanted to ‘knock Tom down a notch’ in order to let Sylvie shine. I recall Taika saying a similar thing in relation to Ragnarok and even Feige removed him from Age of Ultron due to his ‘insane acting skills.’ 🙄

- Apparently Chris Hemsworth is ‘sick of Loki’ and said that he’s like a “clingy ex-girlfriend who can’t take the hint that it’s done, it’s over.”

- Taika Waititi said that Loki outshined Thor before so he wanted to stop that from happening.

- Taika wanted to put Loki in a porta potty:

- Taika wanted Tom to get pregnant with a horse implying bestial r*pe!!

- Most of his scenes from the movies were deleted

- Michael Waldron and Kate Herron said that they wanted to ‘knock Tom down a few pegs’ in order to give Sylvie a chance to shine

- He had to film the show during COVID which stuffed a lot of things

- He couldn’t promote the second season due to the SAG AFTRA strikes.

- He’s never featured in the Marvel opening title sequence

- He is still one of the ‘lowest paid Marvel actors.’

- He goes out of his way to promote Infinity War even though he’s only in it for 2 minutes!

- His series didn’t get the ‘spotlight treatment’ or have and show runners who KNEW anything about Marvel or Loki! Tom spent FOUR days showing them PowerPoint presentations showing them all about aloki and the MCU at the infamous ‘Loki Lectures’ but “SCREW YOU TOM AND YOUR CHARACTER! WE CARE MORE ABOUT KANG AND THE TVA, YOUR ‘CHARACTER’ IS JUST A PLACE HOLDER NOW!”

- They made him look older and less appealing in the show than he does irl. Look at him in some shots in the show then see him behind the scenes! The makeup, lighting and angles were unflattering at times! They even managed to remove that sparkle in his eye in the show but it was there behind the scenes!

- The director of S1, Kate Herron said that it was wanted Sophia/Sylvie to ‘knock Tom Hiddleston down a notch.’

The director of S2, Aaron Moorhead said ‘Why don’t you just go away?’

What we could have had… 😪 Poor guy. I wonder how he feels being bullied, exploited and sidelined all the time. 😢💔

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starlight-bread-blog · 2 months

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Why Lokius Should Have Been Canon

This is a sort of combo of two metas that didn't quite get point my across. Some parts will be copied directly, but there's a lot of original content. I will discuss the ship between Loki and Mobius, their place in the show, and the MCU at large. My focus for this meta won't be parallels or motifs, because these things border on well-written friendships. But there will be some of that.

Romance in the MCU

There are a lot of straight couples in the MCU. (Almost) Every main hero is in some heterosexual relationship, Loki included.

(That's not all, not remotely).

But in the LGBTQ+ department... uh.. I think it was mentioned that Valkyrie had a girlfriend... uh... America Chavez had a pride pin... and Loki:

One line. Queer experiences are never a focal point of a show/movie the same way heterosexual experiences are. And that needs to change.

Romance In the Show

Wrong, toxic, or unsuccessfu romantic love is a recurring theme in the show.

Sylki

Sylki was an icky relationship right off the bat. They are the same person. I can't find the post at the moment, but someone has pointed out in their post that them being the same person is referenced in every episode in season 1 (edit: here it is), which is when the romance took place. This made their romance uncomfortable for many viewers.

(Some consider Sylki a toxic relationship, but for this post, the topic is too large to handle with the nuance I'd like to handle it with).

When he's drunk, Loki compares love to a dagger, stating that it hurts you, but when you try to find strength in it, it's not real.

youtube

Which is exactly what happens. Sylvie pushes Loki into a portal and they never get back together.

The Love Triangle

In 02×03, Ravonna Renslayer is infatuated with Victor Timely, but he leaves her behind and betrays her when Miss Minutes told him to. One episode later, we discover that they were indeed an item, and established the TVA together. He Who Remains deleted her memories and they never rekindle their love.

Later in the episode, is the best example of "wrong" romance in the show. Miss Minutes, the AI clock, confesses her love to Viktor Timely. He, obviously, freaks out and shuts her off. Nothing ever comes of this.

Brad and Dox

This one is small, but a big indication to romance being a theme. In 02×01, we're shown this:

The gap in the age of the actors is uncomfortable, and a character in universe has this reaction to it. It is never mentioned again.

So what does all of this leave us with? Not much. None of this properly ties to the finale, or anything really. If I were to write the show I would cut a lot of this out, since it serves no purpose. But it does make you keep romance and its shortcomings in mind. The writers want it to be there, in the back of your head.

Loki and Mobius

Finally! I got to talk about them. The two people in question. First things first, who are they, together? They became really supportive, close friends.

Fans even drew parallels to Chaos & Order, which is a very important theme in Loki. But I'm not here to unpack them. These things don't necessarily make them in love. So what does make them in love? I'll present you my evidence, and you ask yourself,

Would it be valid to suggest romantic implications if a man and a women are:

1) Extremely thouchy with each other.

2) Riding on a tandem bike together.

3) Willing to suffer a fate worst than death for another.

4) Falling on each other after that^

5) Literally the Interrupted Declaration of Love trope. (Ex)

6) Being framed in a circle.

7) Waiting & giving permission to attack.

8) Fixing themselvs before seeing the other.

Of course yes. Maybe you think some of these are a strech, but ultimately, people would point out romantic connotations across the board. And I'm here, pointing them out right now. Some scenes between Loki and Mobius have romantic implications.

Conclusion

Loki is a queer protagonist in the MCU, a universe that lacks representation of queer experiences. His show constantlty reminded us of romance, sometimes for seemigly no reason. In the second season, they wrote him and his best friend with romantic implications. And then, nothing. It should not have been nothing. Lokius should have been canon.

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purplehalnw · 5 months

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That whole ending with Loki holding all of the timelines together for eternity... I read another post where someone said that ending didn't feel right because Loki didn't cause any of this shit, he shouldn't be the one who has to sacrifice himself to solve these problems that aren't even his fault.

And yeah honestly they should've had He Who Remains be forced to hold these timelines together as punishment or something or maybe have Mobius or any one of the TVA workers do this as a way to make up for all the horrible shit they did.

But nope we get this ending that's supposed to be "tragic" and serve as a form of "redemption" but doesn't because the writers have made it very clear that they have no understanding of Loki's character or how to write a decent story in general.

Edit: I see y'all mentioning Sylvie and I think I must've purged my memory of her when writing this post. Hell yeah she should be the one fixing this shit considering it was her recklessness that started it in the first place. But no I guess Loki lOvEs her now even though she's been nothing but an asshole for this entire fucking show.

#loki mcu #loki marvel #marvel loki #loki #loki series #loki show #loki show negativity #anti loki show #loki show critical #anti loki series #loki series negativity #loki series critical #loki season 2 #loki season finale #loki season two #marvel #mcu #marvel cinematic universe

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spooky-donut-ghost-house · 5 months

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Absolutely love that in Loki season 2 they blatantly make fun of Norse culture and say that the wooden Norse Odin, Baldr and Thor statue carvings are "dramatizations" and "highly insulting" and "glorified dioramas"

Real nice Disney real fucking nice/s /neg

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thorarms · 2 years

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Really not a fan of the new trend in the mcu that puts asgardians in regular human clothes it's boring and makes the films and tv shows look cheap in comparison like heaven forbid the norse gods look like norse gods

#it's so clearly marvel not wanting to pay the costume designers like it's not even subtle #mcu critical #loki series critical #anti thor love and thunder

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sylvies-kablooie · 5 months

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the problem w loki s2: hey, where did the women go?

this is criticism so if that isn’t your thing you have been forewarned! i knew by episode 2 that something was off compared to s1 and i couldn’t quite place it. was it the sole focus on drab retro futurist TVA aesthetic instead of the colorful cinematography in s1? was it the focus being placed upon this Loom that we just found out is a thing and also Hey we have to stop it right now? Was it the lack of sylvie content?

but i think it just comes down to bad writing and whilst also trying to salvage what we DID get, i would feel dishonest to pretend that my problems with s2 arose from the finale alone. and while there were narrative inconsistencies between the seasons, i think a central error in s2 was sidelining the female characters.

s1 had beautiful themes, including self-acceptance and the power of love, and was building up to a ton of unanswered questions. a central theme of s1 (like it or not) was the connection between sylvie and loki. it was intended by waldron and herron from the start to be a romance, but beyond the romantic aspect, sylvie was the driving force of the show. she’s the variant the TVA is chasing, she’s the one who reveals that the TVA is a lie and makes everyone question what they were taught, it’s her that plunges the blade into HWR and opens the multiverse- and it’s no secret that in s2 she was largely off screen, only to show up at key plot points and kind of make things difficult rather than allow a further explanation into her character. and i could and might make a whole post on the sidelining of sylvie, but also- renslayer.

we saw a lot of renslayer in s1! she was pretty damn integral to the plot. her connection with mobius was fascinating, her dedication to doing what she saw as the right thing even when she learned all her gods were dead, her willingness to prune her best and maybe only friend to protect the big TVA lie- that was captivating. she’s also the first character we get to see the real non-TVA life of! she’s a principal at a school! and what did we get from her in s2?

she throws the book at victor, we learn she was his general and she’s Mad, and then exiled to the void. she’s barely there this season despite being central to s1! why, when you have an actor as talented as gugu mbatha-raw, would you not take advantage of that! we see threads of what COULD have happened in her storyline- her alliance with miss minutes, realizing maybe they never needed him at all- but at the end she’s pruned, thrown in the void and That’s That’s, stay tuned to see if anything happens in one of the endless future installments. we get that amazing I’m order line, and then what? and what type of order is she even representing? why is she so willing to toss mobius to the curb? you see why we need more development here?

b-15 met a similar fate. actually, i was really excited at the start of s2 to see her get her moment defending the new branches, realizing those were people, seeing the grief on her face; remember, sylvie showed her her life on the timeline, so this is personal for her. but she’s also quickly regaled to the side after her speech in the war room. she was a doctor, she is VERITY WILLIS, but do we get into any of this? No! (I also didn’t like her willingness to negotiate with Dox after the bombed the timelines, saying deep down I know you’re good right after we watched her cry over the devastation that had brought to the timelines, but maybe that’s another point)

and dox? what’s the deal with her! we are introduced to this strong general with a weird connection to brad, someone who is willing to go against TVA orders to bomb the timelines in the defense of what she believes is right, but then- squashed in a cube. that’s that. no examination into why she would be willing to betray the TVA in that way but also NOT join renslayer, no explanation into what was going on w brad.

(brad is worth a whole separate post but this is focusing on the ladies so just keep that in the back of your mind)

and back to sylvie. i saw some people point out how gross her being frozen during the final battles between her and loki was; how it eliminated her agency and allowed the men to have a Serious Talk. i have to say i agree with that judgement. in this season we get to see glimpses of what sylvie wants, but the unresolved relationship (whichever way you wish to characterize it- you do you!) between her and loki just hangs in the air like a heavy storm cloud i kept waiting to break but it… didn’t. the closest we got was the pie room scene, but everything between them was stilted and awkward when she was onscreen, which wasn’t that much.

it was almost as if the connection with loki was considered in opposition to her role as a Strong Woman, in a way- she was Strong and Angry. in s1 we see sides of her that defy stereotype- giving that doomed child her candy to ease the pain, her admitting to loki that she numbed herself with flings; there’s a vulnerability there, a complexity. the two of them rehashed their first fight again and again instead of moving onto something new (that being said sophia’s performance in episode 3 added a weight to the story that pleased me greatly) but overall she was regarded as a plot obstacle to be hidden away- at least past episode 3.

anyway i do think it comes down to writers biting off more than they could chew and losing the central concept of the show and focusing on sciencey plot rather than characterization. you can’t make season 1 centered around a love story and then pretend that didn’t happen and expect a cohesive transition between seasons. you can’t bombard us over and over again with the centrality of loki and sylvie’s duality- all of the we’re the sames, all of the i’m not you’s, and then move into s2 deciding it’s time to focus on only one half of that duo you spent the whole series focusing on.

you also can’t give us a “aHH we’re all gonna explode” thing over and over again and expect us to give a damn when you’re not letting the characters have dialogue that makes us say, oh man, i hope this loom thing doesn’t blow up, because i want to see where the connections they have going on end up! you can’t replace emotional weight with a ticking time bomb and expect it to do the work for you.

there are other problems with the series as well, and other people are far more articulate than i am, but the lack of female gaze and only one episode having a female writer this season was glaring, imo.

thank u for coming to my tedtalk and i’d love to hear ur thoughts!

#there was also just no whimsy #it was whimsy-less #but that’s another point entirely #anyway i’m torn between embracing what i do like about s2 and throwing the whole thing in the trash mentally #loki series negativity #loki series critical #loki tv show #loki #loki series #loki show #loki tv #loki s2 #renslayer baby i’m so sorry they did all of that to you you deserved SO much better #and sylvie and dox and b-15 #i’m sure i’ll think of other things too but these are the big ones

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latent-thoughts · 6 months

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It's funny how people accused Loki of being a fascist/genocidal maniac/evil autocrat back in 2012, even though there were clear indications of him being under the influence of the mind stone + Thanos' torture and indoctrination + going through a phase of severe mental breakdown (in Thor 1).

And now people are embracing the fact that (not)Loki* is becoming a loyal dog of the TVA--a fascist, genocidal organisation which kills whole universes in one go without so much as blinking, puts people in gas chambers to alter their minds, tortures people into submission (which Mobius actually did to (not)Loki), only because one person (Kang) decided that one timeline was sacred and the rest expendable.

I can't imagine the mental gymnastics being utilised here.

* I'm using (not)Loki because whatever this character is, he's certainly not the Loki of 2011-2013.

#loki series #loki series critical #loki series criticism #mobius #tva #marvel #marvel bullshit

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magpie-murder · 7 months

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we can all agree that the mcu loki deleted scenes are good, right? which means that, logically, the show will become good if they just delete all the scenes :)

#váli.txt #loki #loki series criticism #loki series critical #loki critical #loki show critical #anti loki show #anti loki series #mcu critical #mcu criticism

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supervillainarchaeologist · 2 months

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Using The Dark World to illustrate my issue with "taking away" Loki's traditional costuming...

I have already alluded to the fact that I am not 100% on board with the Loki series. I am probably not as much of a hater as some because yes I have watched the entire thing and it was...just fine. It is NOT the same character though, I can never shake the feeling that this just isn't "my" Loki so even though I enjoyed elements of it, overall it was a disappointing experience and I don't think I'll ever make peace with it. You know what one of my problems is? The main TVA costume. I have heard ALL the excuses as to why putting Loki in boring dirty human clothes was needed to show character development or whatever but sorry, I refuse to accept. Because what we deemed Loki's "prison pyjamas" back in 2013 already achieved the aim of stripping him of the gilded trappings of royalty and then Loki himself LITERALLY tore layers off himself in his grief over Frigga's death. The prison costume still honoured his Asgardian status and his prior characterisation while being basic. It removed any decorative elements and was put together more for the fact he'd be wearing it a long time than to show off that he's a prince, it removed anything that was for ceremonial purposes. Yes I know he immediately puts his old (and a variation of his very best) costume back on during the prison break scene but I just wanted to say that you can show Loki as a broken version of himself, as a character who needs to reassess his position in the world, without putting him in a ratty old shirt that looks like something my mum bought for me from Marks and Spencers when I was a schoolgirl. I was so STARVED of Loki actually looking like Loki that I quite liked his ascension/"hero" look in the series finale. I mean, the lighting is still shitty so the deep forest green of the behind the scenes photos comes out a wishy-washy browny-green, and I didn't even realise there were gold beading details until I saw those photos. But at least it resembled something that was closer to what Actual Loki would wear (even though it's not really the same character.)

The annoying thing is there is CONCEPT ART with Loki wearing clothing that adheres more to his in-character look. I will never understand. They had an insane budget, so you can't even say the Asgardian leather and gold was too expensive!

#anti loki series #loki #loki (marvel)#loki series critical #thor the dark world #i miss his 2012-13 look #I really hate the TVA look btw #costume rant

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lokiinmediasideblog · 4 months

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Whoever decided the final wardrobes for the Loki series has terrible taste. There I said it. The concept art looked much better and not difficult to bring into reality. We were robed of dark-haired Sylvie without a mullet with the Enchantress circle-pattern spreading like moss on her armor.

We were robbed of Loki without those ugly slippers and blanket of an outfit. And it was more fitting to his past outfits/themes. Wesley Burt, they don't deserve you. We're just lucky they're both pretty.

#loki series critical #wesley burt #concept art #mcu!sylvie #mcu!loki

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mrsblackruby · 5 months

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Deadass I would’ve supported LOKI (the character) if he decided to burn the TVA to the mother fucking ground frist ep not using up all his energy to keep dying timelines alive like let Loki be a whore again wtf let the timelines figure their own shit out themselves but that’s the story telling I personally would’ve found more interesting to see

( caveat my analysis might be il-judged I didn’t watch season two because I’m boycotting Disney for supporting Israel.)

#I heard spoliers they turned loki into a mfing tree 💀#loki laufeyson #loki #loki series #loki series spoilers #loki series negativity #loki series criticism #loki series critical #anti loki show #anti loki series #loki deserves better

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starlight-bread-blog · 6 months

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Within the Loki series, taken out of who Loki was in phases 1-3, Lokius is seriously growing on me.

Loki and Mobius have a great bond, built on support and understanding.

Sylki is selfcest, Loki x Loki. We won't be missing out on anything. (In fact, I think it'd be for the best). I can easily see this going on the romance route.

But from what I remember, I wouldn't call it queerbaiting. Nor would I cite it as a reason to ship them.

My reason is good mlm representation from Disney.

There are a lot of straight couples in the MCU. (Almost) Every main hero is in some heterosexual relationship, Loki included.

And that's not even all the relationships, there are more.

But in the LGBTQ+ department... uh.. I think it was mentioned that Valkyrie had a girlfriend... uh... America Chavez had a pride pin... and Loki:

Wow!! How brave!! That is trurly MAGNIFICENT!! Cynicism aside, I'm sure the writers cared for the representation. I don't know them. But in the context of the MCU doing the bare minimum, it's icky.

One might argue that Loki is bisexual, therefore it's biphobic to suggest that he has to be in a gay relationship in order to be bi enough. Let me be clear, you are bi enough regardless of who you date.

However, as a bisexual person myself, I strongly disagree. The MCU has been giving us nothing but crumbs. Disney doesn't give a fuck about good representation. They want to attract queer wallets, but still keep it short enough to delete the scene for Russia and China. Us queers deserve better.

There was an opportunity to break out of this pattern, to give us an exploration of a queer experience. But we weren't given that. Time and time again, we aren't given that. And I fundamentally reject the notion that it's biphobic to criticize them for it.

Lokius could have been the MCU's first healthy queer relationship of a main character that is given an arc. I'm rooting for them all the way.

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