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sirenjose · 5 months

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Thoughts and Theories about "Identity Switches"

This will cover current Identity Switches (up to Hunter Norton/Fool's Gold), as well as their connections between the Identity Switch and their normal version, motivations, personalities, backstories, etc... as well as some discussion about the plot of the main story and the Oletus Manor tragedy (including my theory regarding Jose's father's potential involvement in that event).

Regarding the topic of Identity Switches, it'll be easier to answer questions about those as Netease releases more, but for now we just have Novelist/Nightmare, Alice/Memory, Professor/Luchino, Weeping Clown/Joker, and now Norton/Fool's Gold (though we'll likely get Melly's hunter version sooner than later as well).

With Orpheus, we've known for awhile how he's talked about having multiple personalities or whatever, but the form he takes as “Nightmare” isn't real. So far, it doesn't seem like the rest of the Identity Switches (Memory, Luchino, Joker, Fool's Gold) are "real" either, at least in the sense as being those being their appearance in the real world and such.

"Nightmare" seems to have formed as a result of his trauma and the aftereffects of the tragedy that killed the DeRoss couple (Alice's parents) who he was close to.

I think Novelist's S-tier Essence, with Hollow, and that essence's backstory does the best job showing this, especially with Alice as Source of Evil's shock and disbelief that Orpheus as Hollow is the one behind everything she's seeing.

Hollow himself literally states he wants "revenge" during his essence trailer, as well as the rest of his lines during his trailer.

He used to be kind but his heart hardened after what he experienced, and he's no longer as trusting. He also now seems to primarily see the flaws or "sins" first and their good parts second (which i at least personally think is also visible from the way he writes most everyone's 3rd letters, which usually tend to depict the character in a negative light). He wants people to "repent" (with him seeing himself as the person making these "sinful souls" repent).

This idea of him focusing on the evil in people and wanting them to "repent" I think could be reflected in Orpheus aka Nightmare as the manor owner. I think it's best shown in Bane’s letter, where he see themselves helping this happen, but also from those same letters, we eventually see them begin to question Orpheus the same way Source of Evil did.

The best example being Bane in William's 4th letter, where we see his doubt beginning to show due to failing to understand why Orpheus would include an innocent like William in his experiments.

Based on Bane's 4th letter, where Alice talks about Bane missing by the time of the final game, it is possible it is because he begins to doubt that he might've disappeared.

Bane and Burke worked for the DeRoss couple before the tragedy, after which they worked for Orpheus as the new owner. They're people who are close to Orpheus, so if even they are questioning Orpheus' actions, along with Alice at least as Source of Evil, with Alice being Orpheus' childhood friend, that should show just how much he changed.

Sorry it took me so long to reach here, but I think this is what is reflected in Orpheus when he takes the form of Nightmare.

The reason he looks like a bird connects to how birds are stated to be what Orpheus' likes. The gas mask Nightmare wears, which we saw during Time of Reunion, may connect to the drugs Orpheus developed and is using (and how we see him messing with gas in Darkwoods during Time of Reunion).

Nightmare's finger being a pen connects to Orpheus as a writer, a "novelist", while the music notes on his arm can connect to the Nightingale's song and the piccolo we saw being used during Time of Reunion to open the gates of the manor, and how Alice says during Ashes of Memory that the nightingale's song can open all the doors in the manor. We see Orpheus playing the piccolo during Novelist's release trailer too (as well as bandits who come in and kill Alice's parents during the live action trailer for ToR).

Then there's his name, which his rumor seems to explain the meaning of "Perhaps known only to 'Orpheus', this nightmare of his memory".

Finally there's how Nightmare is essentially a raven. This can relate to how the raven is sometimes seen as a bad omen, which fits with Orpheus' change after the tragedy.

So, at least based on Novelist and Nightmare, we can see his Nightmare is a combination of things related to Orpheus himself, his past, but also an emphasis on the... darker side of his personality. Many of the other hunter Identity Switch's we have I think are similar. Their hunter versions seem to put a spotlight on the darker aspects of their character and thus also why I think they tend to be depicted as inhuman, as a way to emphasize how they aren't how they normally are, except these dark parts which are normally hidden internally are now reflected externally in their appearance, and show them as monsters normally or exaggerated versions of their normal selves to mirror their inner darkness, but if that darkness was cranked up to the max.

Joker in a way is similar to Orpheus. Both used to be kind people but changed drastically after going through painful experiences. For Joker, this was the pain and humiliation he was forced to subject himself to day in and day out for the audience's amusement, the pain Sergei caused him, both physical by the acid, and the mental due to Joker's ruined face now preventing him from playing his role in Hullabaloo anymore, not to mention more emotional pain as Sergei was with the girl Joker loved, made more complicated when Joker learned Sergei was abusing her, whatever happiness Joker felt at Margaretha coming to him for comfort because of that abuse, complicated further as it was this event that made Sergei hurt Joker. And even more as Margaretha may not have loved him back, but Joker still cared about her. Put everything together, and it should make it easy to understand why Joker did eventually reach his breaking point, which was the day he killed Sergei, took his face, and then (likely) killed everyone else at Hullabaloo that day, which is the tragedy Mike refers to in his backstory, and is the thing motivating him to go to the manor.

Joker looks the way he does I think at least in part to represent Sergei, or at least maybe how Joker saw Sergei, but also combined with maybe how Joker wishes he was. Compared to Weeping Clown, Joker is much bigger and stronger. But he's also always happy and smiling, which is what Joker wants, what he's been unable to do for so long (just read Joker's deductions, I think it makes this apparent enough).

Moving on to Luchino, I think he's potentially the easiest to understand his Identity Switch/hunter version. His deductions and backstory make his interests clear, as well as how far he'll go for his research. Professor's trailer and backstory tell us in a way he sees his hunter version as "evolution" and stepping over the "last of my boundaries", while his current state (with Professor) is "a small price to pay on the path to truth". His rumor and summaries put best when they basically say Luchino's hunter version an emphasis on his "exploration into forbidden areas" or him going into "territories of taboo".

Maybe Luchino's most recent (4th) letter can give us a bit more insight. It says he is "I've spent my nights suppressing the inhuman desire within me and battling against that 'instinct'". Maybe, compared to his hunter version, this could help show that Luchino's hunter version, like the others, is still an emphasis on a character if they went all the way to the extreme and focusing on their darker traits. Based on his following comment in that letter about "understanding of humans", this could be what his real goal is.

Next I'll mention Alice and Memory. Memory we know is entirely because of Orpheus. It is how he views Alice. Or, to put another, it is what he wants to see. If we go back to Hollow's trailer, he says he wants to "rebuild paradise", which so far I think is the easiest thing to understand regarding what Orpheus is doing and why he has done everything he has.

We know he was torn up by guilt over the tragedy based on Alice's letter to Orpheus in the 2nd anniversary package, where she says "Please don’t blame yourself for father and mother’s death". I think this can even connect to a line by Burke in Bonbon's deductions, where Burke mentions "Since he got back from his 'real' parents, that brat lost various valuable items again... He tried to take full responsibility for it, but such tolerance and protection will only feed their greed".

There’s also how, based on Time of Reunion trailers (live and otherwise), cutscenes, and even Hollow’s essence (S19 E1), at least to me it seems to be implied that it is Orpheus’ fault the bandits got into Oletus Manor to kill Alice’s parents.

The farmer looking people we saw in the portrait during Time of Reunion and during Ashes of Memory when Orpheus is talking about his past may be Orpheus’ “real” parents, the ones Burke mentions during Bonbon’s deductions that Orpheus may be taking valuables from the manor for, which implies Orpheus’ real parents were likely “greedy” people.

During Orpheus’ story in Ashes of Memory, he refers to the man as a “forest ranger” the DeRoss couple hired. This actually can fit with Burke’s deductions, where he talks about the DeRoss couple “bought their own staff” for the manor, after which he says there was “a strange boy in this annoying group”. Orpheus being the son of forest rangers the DeRoss’ hired would explain why he appeared when the DeRoss bought their staff, which could include forest rangers, as we know Bane used to be a forest ranger hired to work on the “hunting grounds of Oletus Manor” (those grounds being the Forest of No Return, as that’s where we can find Bane’s cabin) according to his backstory. Though Bane, unlike Orpheus’ real parents, was loyal to the DeRoss couple.

Orpheus in his story says this forest ranger (likely his real father/parents) “colluded with bandits” (during that scene we see the forest ranger dropping some coins, likely to imply he hired the bandits), the same bandits that killed the DeRoss couple and “ransacked the manor”.

We know from Burke’s and Bonbon’s deductions, as well as from Time of Reunion, that the “key” to get into the manor was a piccolo, likely combined with having to use it to play the nightingale’s song as Alice says during Ashes of Memory.

We see Orpheus playing on this same piccolo in Novelist’s release trailer. We also see the bandits playing on this piccolo during the live action trailer for Time of Reunion. During Ashes of Reunion 2, as Alice is walking through the Muse Corridor, we see the lines “How did they get inside?!”, implying it shouldn’t have normally been possible, likely due to the security we know Burke installed for the manor.

If the piccolo was the key, we know that must be how they got in. How did they get it? Well, we know Orpheus has been taking valuables for his “real parents”. We also know he’s held and used the piccolo before. Maybe Orpheus knew about it from getting close to Burke, who does say right after first mentioning Orpheus in his deductions that the kid “showed great interest in my studio” and “I can always see his clothes or shoes sticking out from the corner”. It’s also possible Orpheus was able to learn about it or get his hands on it due to getting close to the DeRoss couple, especially once Alice was born and he got attached to her.

If Orpheus did help the bandits get into the manor, potentially by giving them the key, that would parallel Hollow’s essence trailer well, as we see in that trailer the young, still innocent Orpheus reaching his hand out to the shipwreck survivors, with the very next scene being these same people attacking the manor.

It would also explain Orpheus’ guilt and why he blames himself for Alice’s parent’s death according to Alice’s letter in the 2nd anniversary package.

Now why do I say all this (besides the fact I think as I talk and couldn’t help going on a tangent as I think about other things)? Orpheus is the one who sees Alice as “Memory”. “Memory” is just as her name says, a memory of the past. Alice looks just like she did back then. Back when things were happy, before their “paradise” was destroyed by the events of the tragedy. Hollow does say he wants to “rebuild paradise”, which reflects his desire to go back, to “look back” if you will just like Orpheus in the actual Greek myth, an action that causes him to break his promise to Hades and thus lose Eurydice.

Orpheus is unable to see Alice as she currently is. He is unable to move forward. He is unable to get past the guilt Alice mentions in her letter to Orpheus. In that same letter, she tries to tell him “You’ve already done everything in your power to save them; my survival is proof of this”. This can connect back to the words we saw in Ashes of Memory 2 when Alice is in the Muse Corridor. We hear someone saying “Take her and run. And don’t turn back”, followed soon after by someone asking for where the kids went (Orpheus and Alice), with the last line we see and hear being Orpheus who says “Don’t be afraid we’ll meet again”. This last line likely is a reference to how Orpheus helped ensure Alice’s survival as she mentions in her letter, potentially him trying to hide her from those looking for them (if they were found, it is possible they would’ve been killed like their parents. Though Burke and Bonbon’s deductions imply they were found, it’s possible timing and exactly who found them was important to ensure their survival).

But based on the first lines in that letter, it seems Alice (in the present, likely during the final game) so far has failed to get Orpheus to stop what he’s currently doing. We know she’s trying to stop him based on the shock and disbelief Source of Evil expresses during her essence to Hollow’s actions, as well as during Novelist’s release trailer as we see a lady holding Memory/Little Girl telling Orpheus to “Stop it! End all this now”.

Orpheus is incapable of stopping himself from focusing on the past, on revenge, on getting back what he once had. His pain and desire is too great, potentially to the point he was willing to use the drugs on himself as Alice in her letter to Orpheus says “regardless of whether you can or cannot remember”. Drugs to help him forget, to ease his pain, but also the same drugs that cause characters to hallucinate seeing others differently, such as seeing Orpheus as Nightmare.

Siren Song is the drug that causes hallucinations. We see Alice, right after she sniffs the bottle, to briefly hallucinate seeing Mary and Nightmare.

I also believe this is the same drug that was used on Jose’s father, Joaquin, and his crew the day they disappeared, depicted in Jose’s 1st letter. They mentioned things that the “cannons couldn’t kill”. The reasons the cannons didn’t kill anything was because the things they saw weren’t real. However, unfortunately for them, their actions still had consequences, which was why their ship likely sunk and why Jose, who waits for his father returns, never sees his father again, and why the Queen assumes Joaquin made off with her treasure and so punishes the Baden family.

(I also still believe in my theory that Jose’s father and crew were the shipwreck survivors depicted in Hollow’s essence in the Season 19 Essence 1 trailer who later may have ended up being at least some of the “bandits” that Orpheus’ real parents “collude” with aka hire or pay off to attack the manor, steal its valuables, and kill many of those inside, including Alice’s parents. We know Jose mentions his father changed course due to a storm in his 3rd deduction, while his 4th and 7th imply the “loss of most of the crew” wasn’t because they were fighting pirates, and instead because “the nightmarish waters had swept them away”. We know from deduction 2 that Joaquin’s change of course took them through an area “not recommended for sailing”. Therefore, the “nightmarish waters” and “loss of the crew” could imply they shipwrecked just like we saw in the Season 18 Essence 3’s (Source of Evil) and Season 19 Essence 1’s (Hollow) trailers. We also can make a good guess the large ship at Lakeside may connect to Jose’s father due to the items on the ship, including a map of the Mediterranean, where we know Joaquin was sent the day he disappeared, a paper with the same symbols as are on White’s compass, a Teru Teru Bozu doll, which is for praying for fine weather and can relate to the “nightmarish water” or the original storm that made Joaquin change course, a picture from Jules Verne’s Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea of a sailor being grabbed by a giant squid, and a nighttime picture that looks very similar to the images from Wu Chang’s backstory trailer. This could imply Jose and his father have been here before, and if his father participated in the attack on Oletus Manor that killed Alice’s parents, that could explain why Jose is so traumatized after they return from this voyage based on Jose’s panic attacks stated to be worsening as well as explain why Jose says in his 7th deduction that the “nightmarish waters” swept away both his “companions” as well as their “conscience”, which implies they did something bad based on the implications from lacking a conscience, especially when we know Joaquin saw this voyage as so important he refused to turn back due to a storm and instead changed course through an area not recommended for sailing. If they did shipwreck, causing them to potentially lose all their cargo, that’d risk Joaquin’s reputation and his desire for fame and fortune. So he would be the type who’d be willing to fall to the lengths of attacking and stealing from a manor to potentially regain what he lost. This would explain why Jose says whatever happened “awakened the demons flowing through the Badens' blood” as well as the Queen’s “wealth” they were said to have “protected” and returned with after the voyage, which is what earned Jose’s father the fame and fortune he always wanted. And again, it would explain some of the other sarcastic lines in Jose’s deductions including “Redemption: A sin the gods can't forgive, but a king can”, which can tie to how Orpheus as Hollow says in the trailer for his essence “Only a sinful soul does as it pleases” and “Revenge! To hell with the gods!”. This idea could also explain why Orpheus in Jose’s 3rd letter calls Jose a “gift” from a “friend who passed away” that Orpheus “treasured” to use in his experiment, so much so he was willing to pause the experiment when it looked like Jose’s mental state was deteriorating too much. The “gift” from the “friend” that “passed away” can be a sarcastic way to refer to Jose’s father.)

Speaking of the drugs that cause hallucinations, I want to go back to Joker. Remember how I said Orpheus is the one who sees Alice as Memory? Well I think it’s possible Margaretha is the one who sees Weeping Clown Joker as Smiley Face Joker. We know drugs weren’t used on Mike, Joker’s 3rd letter implies the same it seems based on “But even without the influence of drugs, Subject 8-0-3's emotions still moved uncontrollably toward the extreme”, for Violetta it was twice said that it “wasn’t the plan to use medicine” on her, and Murro like Mike has “?” for the 2nd spot of his serial number, which usually implies the character didn’t have the drugs used on them. In which case, Margaretha was likely the 1 to hallucinate Joker’s Identity Switch. And it makes sense too as Margaretha knew a lot about Sergei, ran away with him, but also experienced his abuse. We know from Margaretha’s 3rd letter that, due to the drugs, she mistook Joker as Sergei for a time. That could explain Joker having an appearance that may have a resemblance to Sergei. It could also explain why he’s as big as he is. It could be in part tied to her fear of Sergei due to his abuse.

That then leaves us with Norton and Fool’s Gold. We already got a good bit of information about him from his Design Notes video by Netease. His name itself comes from Norton’s 1st letter from Benny, as well as how the “strong contrast between his outer appearance and inner self” fits well with how Fool’s gold aka pyrite looks similar to gold but is actually iron.

After this part is likely the best answer to your question regarding what an Identity Switch is (https://twitter.com/IdentityVJP/status/1723176218563149901):

“IDENTITY characters and their bodies are somewhat similar to the concepts of id and superego. Or, it can be said to be the difference between the perception of other participants in the game and the person's own perception.

As for character design alone, when we select an IDENTITY character, we tend to enlarge his or her most prominent tags.

Norton's most notable tags were hard work, reticence, being weighed down by life, having no choice but to endure, suppressed anger inside, and ambivalence created by ambition and desire.

We showed one side through Survivor Norton and hoped to show another side through 'Fool's Gold.'”.

After this it further explains why he has a stony appearance, which they say involves his occupation as a miner and how he had been “losing his humanity”. This was why they made the hole in his chest, to show the mining accident damaging “more than his body. When he lit the fuse, his morals, social norms, and appearance of good nature were completely shattered”.

As we said, the Identity Switch/hunter versions are essentially an emphasis on their negative traits which are turned up to the max in this version of themselves. Sort of like how a ONCE skin is a what if something about their story changed, Identity Switches/hunter versions are like a what if the worst or extreme parts of a character were cranked up way more than they actually are.

With hunter Norton, going back to his design notes, it describes this version of Norton being someone that was “reborn in the collapsed mine”, while the hole in his chest involves him “no longer needing the lungs that had been in constant pain before, and that he had been given a new lease of life!”

At least for me personally, another visual for this being a version of Norton with his darker traits magnified is how Norton’s usually crooked smile is now instead a full smile. Norton in his survivor version has a crooked smile to emphasize his name as well as his 2 sides, 1 being his “gloomy and depressed” side (the sad Norton desperate to escape poverty and depressed at his inability to do so no matter how hard he works) while the other is his “avaricious” side (the one affected by the “magnets” said to have “disturbed his brain”).

Fool’s Gold having a magnetic pickaxe he can throw and recall, as well as dash towards, is a reference to Norton’s magnets, the ones he made after he took a chunk of the meteorite from Golden Cave after the mine collapse before managing to dig himself out.

Fool’s Gold/Hunter Norton is a version of Norton that has his greed and willingness to do anything to escape poverty turned up to the extreme. This is a version of Norton no longer in pain from black lung, a version no longer letting himself be abused by his coworkers or employers, a version where his darker side won the inner/mental conflict in Norton, which is depicted in his backstory trailer when we see him holding his head in pain and see both survivor Norton and hunter Norton at the same time (to even better show this is a conflict between survivor Norton, aka his better/good side, and his hunter version, aka his worse/bad side).

An even easier visual and proof of this conflict being part of at least normal, survivor Norton comes from Norton’s 2nd letter. The author is Norton, but he’s also talking to himself, trying to convince himself to accept the job and to kill the female he was asked to kill for the monetary reward he was offered. The fact he has to try to convince himself shows Norton needs convinced aka he hasn’t decided completely if he will go through with it or not, or at least he’s having 2nd thoughts, which again also helps to show survivor Norton and hunter Norton are different (that hunter Norton isn’t necessarily the real version, it’s a what if his darker side was magnified).

There is also the chance the eye in Golden Cave is involved in all this. The Famitsu article already suggested the magnets may be messing with his head, magnets made from the meteorite that came from Golden Cave, where the large eye is. We even see similar fiery eyes appearing as effects with hunter Norton’s S-tier Infernal Skin. I do think there’s a chance hunter Norton is a version of Norton controlled or manipulated (more than normal) by whatever the meteorite and the eye in Golden Cave is.

(I have discussed the idea of the Golden Cave eye being Cyaegha before: https://www.tumblr.com/sirenjose/731920677136924672/golden-cave-eye-cyaegha-theory-updated?source=share).

While I’m thinking about it, I do wonder if we can say Orpheus’ and Norton’s Identity Switch’s/hunter versions are different from the others. I say this as Orpheus has already been said to have multiple personalities, while for Norton he’s already been said to have 2 sides and we’ve already seen him arguing with himself in his 2nd letter. In a sense, I wonder if we can say their hunter versions are “real” in a sense, just that the ones we see in game are now actually (externally) visible and magnified more than normal.

Though speaking of the 2 of them, going back to you wondering if it could relate to the Identity Switch being someone more willing to follow the manor owner or supervising the games, we see Norton during Ashes of Memory 2 seemingly working with Norton. This is based on how Alice encountered Hunter Norton while chasing after Orpheus (the black figure she was initially chasing after), then she is knocked out by Orpheus while Alice is running from Hunter Norton, who we know is actually Norton based on his reflection in the puddles. After this, we then see Norton using the Hydra drug on Alice, with Orpheus likely nearby considering we hear him questioning if the drug is working as Norton is giving it to her. Norton is only officially announced to arrive at the manor the day after that scene takes place. The other bit making it pretty evident Norton is likely working with Orpheus is how we see Norton in the secret basement/cellar that no one besides Orpheus (and Alice now due to her investigation, but none of the other participants at least normally are shown to know anything about it) knows about, not to mention how he knows about Orpheus’ drugs that he likely wants to keep secret from everyone, especially the other normal participants, as them knowing would likely ruin his experiments.

So Norton (or the others really) I don’t think was turned into a hunter/got an Identity Switch because of a “punishment”, nor has he done anything I believe to warrant a punishment, especially with him seemingly being someone directly working with the manor owner rather than just 1 more game participant.

The hunter versions for Orpheus, Joker, and Norton seemed to have formed due to pain (especially over a long period of time) and trauma (powerful experiences). Memory is due to Orpheus’ desire to go back to when things were happy. Luchino I’m less confident about, but maybe we’ll get a better idea as we learn more about his game. It’s possible he could be because of his obsession. It could also be because someone hallucinated him that way similar to Margaretha to Joker and Alice to Norton, which is a combination of knowing or being told about the person and seeing them as more extreme than they currently/actually are likely due to fear. So far though, drugs seem to be the main cause, though not all hunters are just hallucinations (like Leo), but it’s hard to say without full confirmation by Netease how much of each hunter is hallucination and how much is real. We can make guesses, like Bane for example seems mostly real, but who knows if they might surprise us and show their real version is a bit more toned down, like they did for Joker and Luchino.

(As for the question about detention, I don’t believe it’s ever explained in detail, so I think it’s fine to imagine or explain it however you may want. My best guess is maybe it can be explained sort of like adrenaline. Kind of like how the last week before a season ends is called Final Push, I think when the last cipher machine is decoded, it’s like the “final push” to the end. For survivors, this is to escape. For hunters, it is to eliminate everyone. Survivors “borrowed time” talent, which is when they heal when the last cipher pops, has the text “To what end will the last gleam of hope lead?”, which connects with this. Hunters’ detention on the other hand has the text “What's the hurry? Stay here forever”, which I think could help back up by guess that survivors may be more “adrenaline”, while for hunters it may be more… something like bloodlust? The desire to eliminate them all before they can escape. If you want to imagine it as a loss of whatever humanity they had, even if temporary, I think that’s fine ^_^; !)

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