#lwj gives him a Look that’s both betrayed and confused | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

chrisemrysfics · 3 years

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After my post on Wangxian and unconditional love, among other things, I realized I forgot all about a source of unconditional love for Wei Wuxian: the Wen siblings and remnants.

Here is the thing: first, Wei Wuxian had a few years with his parents, he barely has memories, yet he remember the sense of happiness, joy, and the love of his parents, both for each other, and for him.

Then, he lose them, and faces the streets. And then he’s picked by Jiang Fengmian, and brought “home”... and right away there’s an issue with Jiang Cheng and puppies. Yu Ziyuan also shows displeasure.

Jiang Yanli shows care for him, while Jiang Cheng and Wei Wuxian make peace, however, from here on, Wei Wuxian is under constant disapproval by Yu Ziyuan.

And I believe Wei Wuxian is not blind to Jiang Cheng being hurt by what his mother says, and the apparent not-care his father shows. But he says it and I believe he’s right: Jiang Fengmian is lenient toward Wei Wuxian because Wei Wuxian is not his son. What appears as indulgence, is simply that he doesn’t care all that much past what Wei Wuxian is bringing to the clan.

He doesn’t seek his safety: he could have chosen to make Wei Wuxian stay to Lotus Pier rather than let him go to Nightless City, but he didn’t. He even said “he can choose”, which make him wash his hands of responsibility and make Wei Wuxian own up to his own fate. And his last words to me nailed the confirmation: he doesn’t give any word of care, he only echo what Yu Ziyuan said: protect my children.

Wei Wuxian grew up knowing he’ll be scorned by Yu Ziyuan regardless of whether or not he’s truly at fault, and knowing Jiang Fengmian doesn’t really care, as long as he’s around, he let him do what we want, knowing Wei Wuxian is loyal to the Jiang and to his children. Jiang Cheng express it awkwardly, but his attempts at “taming” Wei Wuxian “hero complex” is that he recognizes no one else is trying to stop him from harming himself (including his father). However, because Jiang Cheng let himself be influenced, he doesn’t show unconditional love, Wei Wuxian knows he cares, but Wei Wuxian also recognize Jiang Cheng doesn’t understand him.

This leave only Jiang Yanli that he can be himself with. We understand he feels safe with her, to show his true self, that he know he’ll be love without condition, because it is to her, and only her, he asked such a thing as “why does someone like someone else”. And that’s why his hesitancy to tell her anything about the three months disappearance is so heart-breaking, and she can be seen being worried still: for the first time, he doesn’t tell her.

And this shows how he views himself. For the first time, he thinks there is finally something that might be the one think Jiang Yanli won’t accept. That he’s become something that finally is where she draws the line. No one else before her truly showed any unconditional love, and he’s terrified what will happen if he let her see who he has become.

And it explain why he push away Lan Wangji: he knows Lan Wangji values are righteous, to Wei Wuxian, if Lan Wangji disapprove of him, it means he’s something that cannot approved of. Which then reinforce the idea that he cannot show Jiang Yanli what he’s become.

In the end, he’s traumatized, and scared to be rejected by the two people he cared for the most. He knew he felt pulled to Lan Wangji, he cared for him, he knew in his heart he valued him, just like he values Jiang Yanli. If he allowed himself to be vulnerable, and he got rejected, it would break him. So he didn’t take the risk.

All of that to arrive to the Wen siblings.

And the important thing I realized is that it never was a question of owing each other anything.

Wei Wuxian met Wen Ning, and showed kindness to him, which is pretty clear Wen Ning rarely, if ever, received, outside of his sister and the branch of their family. Its enough for Wen Ning to want to come when he hears about Lotus Pier, and willing to help them.

When Wen Qing enters the scene, she knows the risks, but there is a vital factor that made her decide to let them stay hidden and recover: her brother. Yes, she is a healer, however, it was risky to allow this, except, this was someone who inspired loyalty in her brother, someone who treated her brother well. Someone with a brother that was hurt.

Then, Wei Wuxian asks her to do the surgery, and she refuses. She knows what this will mean, and the thing is, I do end up thinking he’s not blind to how he’s been treated. He had to develop his own moral compass because either he’s scorned no matter if he’s at fault or not, or he’s “indulged”, or he’s not understood. He cares, and he sees himself as owing everything to the Jiang, but I feel like he knows how it can sound like. Wen Qing refuses because she isn’t certain he truly realize what he is asking, or she questions how willing he is, past any conditioning. But he insists, and she sees something that let her know that he does know what he is asking for.

Ultimately, Wei Wuxian is still misunderstood when people think his choice is because he’s been conditioned: yes, of course, we can understand someone shouldn’t have to sacrifice himself, that they shouldn’t have to “pay back” in such a manner... except no one asked. No one forced him to do this. He looked at his brother, and decided he didn’t want to see him like this. Wen Qing refusing meant he had the occasion to rethink his choice. He still chose.

That’s why they also speak of not owing anything to each other: Wen Qing chose to help them, and Wei Wuxian chose to go through the transplant. They understand the risks they took for each other, they had each other life in the other hands (if WWX and JC are seen, its death for WQ, if WQ fails, its death for WWX).

And that’s why they don’t seek each other, they owe nothing to each other, understand where they stand in the war, and trust each other has continued to follow the path of their heart. Wen Qing didn’t betray her values as a healer, nor did Wei Wuxian betray his own values.

However, Wen Qing ended up desperate, and there was only one person she knew had values she could trust: Wei Wuxian. She knows what she is asking out of him, but just like she didn’t leave Wei Wuxian and his brother to their own fate, Wei Wuxian would not leave her and her brother to their own fate. Just like he chose for the transplant, she knew Wei Wuxian would choose what is true to his heart.

And so they end up in Burial Mounds, Wei Wuxian once more doing a sacrifice, yet it is done out of his own choice, the refusal to betray his own values (be it that it was the care for his brother back then, or the protection of innocent now). And here is the thing: Wen Qing knows about Wei Wuxian’s core.

And the Wen Remnants are well placed to fear him, distrust him, be unkind to him, but they don’t. More than that, they welcome him as family. He becomes family to them, and they become family to him. No one judges him, they all see him, and none of them disapprove of him, and they care for him.

To me, Wei Wuxian only ever had two things that were truly his: his demonic cultivation, and the Wen Remnants as family.

He says it himself: he owes spiritual cultivation to the Jiang. But demonic cultivation? He chose to not die, to resist, to survive, to return, to continue following his own values, and developed his own tools for it. He saw the scorn of others, but knew his heart, and stayed true to it. Everything “bad” about him was his trauma, not his cultivation (proven as to how he is, after his death and return).

And the Wen Remnants, they became his family. The Jiang siblings are his family of adoption, but the Wens were the family he, himself, adopted. They were to him what the Jiang Clan was to JC: the people he would protect, the one he placed first.

If JC and/or JYL had no one else to turn to, WWX would have protected them too. But JC had a whole sect, and JYL was part of it. More than that, the best protection was to distance himself, the Wens already had a tainted reputation, like his own, but not his siblings (and same for LWJ). He couldn’t take that risk.

And the strength of his heart and values show when everything goes extremely bad: he accidentally kills JZX, he doesn’t manage to protect/save the Wen Siblings, and still he doesn’t outright slaughter everyone, he attacks after being provoked. He also stop when JYL show up, but because someone else tried to kill him, he sees her protect him and die to protect him... just like the Wen Siblings.

And he just effectively lost the last, and first, sibling who has loved him unconditionally. The Wen Siblings knew all about his lost core, while JYL knew about him in many ways. Loosing all three of them, effectively meant he lost the three people who knew him best and loved him without condition.

Is it so surprising that his psyche broke there? He went mad with grief, the trauma catching up to him. Then he finds himself conscious again, away from Nightless City, not knowing there is still one person who loves him.

And what does he decide to do? Break the seal. Now, I realized a thing: he didn’t die from breaking the first half. The accounts are confusing on purpose, but he himself is seen thinking about how he broke half of it, but didn’t have time to break the second before the Siege happened.

This means he knows how to do it without dying... or he was already half dead.

Then he looses the Wen Remnants, he’s Sieged by the whole cultivation world, including his own brother. There’s no Lan Wangji in sight, leaving him uncertain whether he doesn’t deserve to die in Lan Wangji eyes, or if he’s not even worthy of Lan Wangji being present. Or if its a last kindness, to not be part of the people who attack him.

But Wei Wuxian has lost everything, everyone, his own brother is here with hate and grief in his eyes, Wei Wuxian knows there is greed behind the Siege, and so he finishes what he started: he destroys the seal.

And to this day, I am still convinced there was no backlash, but rather, a last command, either conscious, or one he didn’t realize he made but born of how he was feeling.

However, because he never returned as a vengeful ghost, this make me consider that, for all his death was violent, he died with a peaceful heart.

He knew his own heart and values, and he followed them to his last breath. He knew the greed and blindness of the cultivation world, but what would he do? Kill them all? Be what they claimed he was? No. And then, to him, he caused the deaths of people he never wanted to: JZX and JYL. To someone who gave his core because he considered he owed it to the Jiang, what will he give, if he consider he owed to repay the deaths he caused?

He chose, died with peace in his heart because he followed it to his last breath.

And I wonder if the corpses “eating him” weren’t eating the resentment within him. That’s a whole other headcanon to develop.

But yes, all of this to say: the Wen Remnants were WWX family, the Wen Siblings became his siblings, and WWX remained true to his heart up until the end.

That’s why he didn’t return as a vengeful ghost, and why he was calm and level-headed when he returned. It also strongly imply his temper and so-called “lack of control” were due to his trauma. Yet, this just goes to show how strong willed he is, to both survive the Burial Mounds, and never loose himself, and show that he is truly the Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, because he never lost himself through it, and still mastered it.

#wei wuxian #wen qing #wen ning #mdzs #mo dao su zhi

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xiyao-feels · 3 years

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Nie//yao (MDZS)

So NMJ/JGY is actually getting two versions, because my read on them is wildly different for MDZS vs CQL.

In MDZS I...don't ship it? I mean, there just doesn't seem to be to be anything there at all of a romantic or sexual nature. It's not that they don't care about each other, they clearly do, but it's in a way that is...NMJ as substitute father, JGY as substitute brother, and heavily, heavily inflected by their (current and then former) relationship as superior and subordinate.

Putting this behind a cut because a) it's me explaining at breath length with quotes why I don't think they have a romantic or sexual relationship and I don't want people to have to see that unless they want and b) accordingly it is REALLY LONG and I also don't want to clutter people's dashes, so.

Actually backing up a step, I don't see MDZS NMJ as being attracted to anyone, that's not really specific to JGY. I tend to read him as aspec, tbh. So theoretically he could have romantic feelings about JGY without being attracted to him—I think he may have some quasi-romantic feelings for LXC, though I don't think he conceptualizes it that way—but... honestly, it's not really clear to me that he even likes JGY as a person.

I'm not saying he doesn't like JGY! He clearly does, at least before MY tricks him and flees. But it doesn't seem to have anything to do with MY's personality, as opposed to like—MY being really competent and conducting himself well.

Some quotes about what exactly NMJ values about JGY:

'Nie MingJue interrupted him, “I promoted you not because I wanted you to give back anything out of gratitude. I simply thought that you should stay in this position, since you are capable enough and your conduct is to my liking. If you really want to pay me back, just kill a few more of those Wen-dogs on the battlefield!”'

'After [Meng Yao] left [for Langya], Nie MingJue switched to another deputy. Wei WuXian, however, felt that the new one was always a few beats slower. Meng Yao was an unusually clever talent. He could understand what wasn’t said, and perform to the best with the simplest orders. He was efficient and never slacked. Anyone used to him wouldn’t be able to refrain from comparing him with others.'

'Nie MingJue was never close to people. He rarely opened up to anyone. Though he finally managed to obtain a competent, trustworthy subordinate, whose character and capabilities he approved, he found that the subordinate’s true colors were nothing like what he had thought they were. It was only natural that his reaction was so extreme.'

'Wei WuXian had once found it strange as well. Ever since Meng Yao betrayed the QingheNie Sect, the relationship between Nie MingJue and him hadn’t been the same as before. Then why did they later become sworn brothers? From his observations, aside from how Lan XiChen brought it up, having always hoped that the two would reconcile, the most important factor was probably the gratitude of saving his life and writing the letters. To be precise, in his past battles, he had more-or-less depended on the information that Meng Yao sent over through Lan XiChen. He still thought that Jin GuangYao was a talented person whom one would rarely come upon, and intended on leading him back onto the right path. However, Jin GuangYao wasn’t his subordinate anymore. Only after they became sworn brothers would he have the status and the position to urge Jin GuangYao, like how he disciplined his younger brother, Nie HuaiSang.'

Jin GuangYao spoke with dejection, “But, Brother, didn’t you hear what he said in the oath? Every sentence meant something more. ‘Face a thousand accusing fingers, be torn from limb to limb’—this was clearly a warning for me. I… I’ve never heard of such an oath before.”

Lan XiChen replied in a gentle voice, “He said ‘if one were to think otherwise’. Do you think otherwise? If not, then why should you worry over it so much?"

Jin GuangYao, “I don’t, but Brother has already decided that I do, so what can I do?”

Lan XiChen, “He has always cherished your talent, hoping that you would choose the right path.”

You might notice a recurring theme here: there's a lot of focus JGY's competence and conduct. But anything about who JGY is as a person? Not so much.

They clearly had a good superior/subordinate relationship going on, albeit one in which NMJ was missing a lot of context (see just behave well and show people up, plus the you're missing a solid foundation thing). But it does seem to be basically professional. WWX describes them as conversing "peaceably, even impressively" in contrast to "his future self, always being scolded by Nie MingJue" and "those jokes of how 'LianFang-Zun fled whenever he heard that ChiFeng-Zun arrived,'" and.... that's kind of it. The closest we get to them as friends is them talking together with LXC after NMJ tells MY he will give him a letter of recommendation and send him to his father; as WWX describes it, "The three chatted back and forth, at times serious, yet at times light. The conversation was much more relaxed than when they had been in the living room. Listening to their chatter, Wei WuXian often wanted to get a word in as well, yet he was unable to do so."

That's definitely not nothing! But it's also the most we ever get, only shows up the once, and is explicitly contrasted with their conversation from earlier. Moreover, I'm pretty sure LXC's presence is a necessary part of things; NMJ tends to respond differently to LXC than to other people (even just earlier in this chapter, we're told that while "Nie MingJue had never been one for humour," "in front of Lan XiChen his expression eased"), and WWX explicitly notes LXC's conversation skills in the context of this conversation: "At this point in time, their relationship really isn't bad. Zewu-Jun is actually quite good at holding conversations, so why is Lan Zhan so bad at it?"

In addition, I'd say that looking at the early part of that conversation is quite telling; while LXC and MY are sitting together as equals, MY stand up at once the moment NMJ interrupts, and doesn't sit even after NMJ tells him to do so (I think he probably does take a seat at some point, but the narrative doesn't actually tell us when). Moreover, MY seems to be worried that NMJ will be offended by a possible lack of gratitude on MY's part ("Sect Leader Nie, if you heard everything, then you should've also heard me say that..."), and the only objection he expresses to leaving is precisely that he owes NMJ a debt of gratitude, not anything to do with, like, missing him. To me all the evidence suggests that while they had a close relationship, it was not a /personal/ relationship, but fundamentally one of superior and subordinate.

(For a close read of the scene where NMJ, LXC and MY are talking together, I highly recommend @confusion-and-more's post here)

Moving on, let's look at after JGY becomes JGY. They don't seem to particularly spend time together with each other, certainly not for the sake of it. There's a brief moment at the Flower Banquet where NMJ asks JGY why he's wasting his time with XY (who has not at this point in time committed his crime, he just has a reputation), but after JGY makes his excuse and scurries away, NMJ turns away and doesn't seem to seek him out or even pay him any particular attention for the rest of the scene; he only shows up once more, and that's following WWX. (And although JGY-as-replacement-NHS would be a post all on its own, I do think it's interesting to note that the exchange about XY is immediately followed by LXC and LWJ coming over, described in a way that highlights both their impressiveness and their status at brothers—their Twin Jade-ness, one might say.) During the guqin scene, NMJ only speaks once, and it's to address LXC—to protest the inappropriateness of LXC leaking exclusive Lan techniques. When JGY shows up to play the guqin for him the first time, NMJ asks JGY "what did you come here for," which suggests that NMJ is not generally expecting JGY to come by without a specific, concrete reason. The closest they ever seem to get after JGY becomes JGY is during these guqin-playing sessions, and as WWX describes it, "when playing the guqin, the way that the two conversed and got along even had a hint of the peace they had before they fell out"—which is certainly better than there being no peace at all, but which I think suggests there's still at least some tension, given that it's only a "hint."

Now, NMJ certainly cares about JGY, both in the sense of desiring his well-being, at first, and absolutely in the sense of being emotionally invested in him—even after his death, as a fierce corpse his only desire is to kill Jin Guangyao. But while they had a close superior-subordinate relationship—certainly NMJ seems to have felt close to MY—at no point was it a close personal relationship, and I don't think that NMJ even liked JGY (or MY, I'm using the name expansively) as a person, let alone was in love with him.

But mostly so far I've been focusing in NMJ's feelings. What about JGY? Is /he/ in love with NMJ?

Once again, I just don't read him that way. This isn't to say he didn't care for NMJ—he absolutely did! He goes to quite significant lengths to save his life from WRH in the Sun Palace, including quite a lot of risk to MY himself—I analyze that in a lot more depth in the first part of my post here, if you're interested, though I will also note now that he specifically sent for LXC to help NMJ. (You'll have to scroll down some; I'm responding to someone else's post.) Afterwards, he kneels to NMJ and apologizes, I think sincerely, for hurting him and for invoking his pain about his father's death. He certainly conceives of himself as owing a debt of gratitude to NMJ for recognizing him, and he's so overcome when NMJ offers to send him to his father with a letter of recommendation, saying that he didn't promote MY so that MY would owe him, that he quite remarkably can't even find words. NMJ meant a lot to him, and so did NMJ's not defining him in terms of his birth—until he did, of course, at the stairs kick incident. But as far as I can tell, there's nothing to suggest he has /romantic feelings/ for NMJ, and frankly—how can I put this—it does not at all surprise me that JGY isn't in love with someone with a violent temper who is noted at least twice to react to people explaining themselves when he is angry with even more anger, and that's even without the thing where he nearly killed JGY on multiple occasions and called him the son of a prostitute.

No, I think JGY's emotional journey with NMJ goes through three stages: first, he's deeply grateful to him and respects him a great deal, although he's also aware of NMJ's lack of awareness of certain social realities (see: the teacup scene, NMJ yelling at the other Nie cultivators about their treatment of MY and telling MY not to worry as long as his conduct is upright); second, after Sun Palace, still gratitude and respect but also a mounting frustration with his lack of awareness of the implications of JGY's social position and his hypocrisy re: acceptable violence; finally, after the stairs kick when NMJ kicks him down the stairs, almost kills him, and tells him what else can be expected from the son of a prostitute, he is completely done with NMJ, but is still very much scared of him. The gratitude, I've discussed; the frustration, I think is fairly obvious in the speech he gives back to NMJ at the stairs. But I think the fear is often undervalued, so I'm going to pull a bunch of quotes again:

Meng Yao shrunk immediately after his previous outburst. Watching Baxia slash toward him, he sprinted off at once, scared lifeless. Of the two, one striked with madness and the other fled with madness. Both staggered, still soaked in blood. In such amusing circumstances, as Wei WuXian chopped at the future Chief Cultivator, in his heart he split his sides laughing. He thought that if not for how Nie MingJue was under heavy injuries and lacked spiritual power, Meng Yao would probably have been dead already.

Baxia’s strikes were so menacing that Shuoyue had to unsheath. Lan XiChen stopped him, half to support his figure and half to block his attacks, “MingJue-xiong, calm down! Why bother?”

Nie MingJue, “Why don’t you ask what he did?!”

Lan XiChen turned around to look at Meng Yao, his face was full of terror. He stammered as if he didn’t dare speak.

Nie MingJue remained silent, while Baxia and Shuoyue continued. Meng Yao took a glimpse at the glares from the clashes of the saber and the sword, his gaze full of fear. After a while, however, he still took a step forward. He kneeled to Nie MingJue.

A moment later, Nie MingJue still raised his saber. Lan XiChen, “MingJue-xiong!”

Meng Yao shut his eyes. Lan XiChen also tightened his grip on Shuoyue, “Please excuse…”

Before he could finish his sentence, the silver light of the blade slashed down violently, onto a boulder on the side.

Meng Yao flinched from the thunder of the boulder splitting apart. Looking over, he saw that it had been sliced into two halves, from the top to the bottom.

Jin GuangYao nodded. Xue Yang had been infamous ever since he was young. Wei WuXian clearly felt Nie MingJue’s brows knit even tighter. He spoke, “Why are you wasting your time with such a person?”

Jin GuangYao, “The LanlingJin Sect recruited him.”

He didn’t dare to protest any further. Excuse being that he needed to care for the guests, he scurried to the other side.

[part of his speech to NMJ at the stairs] You think that I should be afraid of nothing? Well I'm afraid of everything, even other people!

Within the temple, three people called Nie MingJue’s corpse ‘Brother’ but the three tones were drastically different. Jin GuangYao’s face was full of a drowning fear. His entire body began to shiver. No matter dead or alive, the person Jin GuangYao was most scared of was none but this sworn brother of his whose temper tolerated no evil. As his body shivered, his hands shivered as well, and the bloody guqin string he clutched tightly in his hand also began to shiver.

Clenching his teeth, Jin GuangYao struck a few acupoints of his arm. Amidst the dizziness that came from a loss of blood, he suddenly saw Nie MingJue walk a step towards him, his eyes locked on him. He was immediately half-dead with fear.

Collapsed beside Lan XiChen, Jin GuangYao saw this scene as well. Whether because the bleeding and the pain intensified at his arm and stomach or from some other reason, the glisten of tears could be seen in his eyes. But before he had a chance to catch his breath or lick his wounds, Nie MingJue turned around after he pulled his fist back and stared hungrily in his direction.

The harsh, stern expression on his rigid face held a sense of judgement that was no different from before he died. Even his tears had been scared away as Jin GuangYao turned to Lan XiChen for help, his voice trembling, “Brother…”

I think the stuff with, you know, handling NMJ's fierce corpse and hanging onto his head is often viewed as evidence of JGY's continued emotional investment in NMJ, but... I don't really think so? First of all, NMJ's fierce corpse is completely obsessed with killing JGY. I'll spare you another round of quotes on that because this is already ridiculously long and because it's not at all subtle—it's all over the temple chapters, take a look! And second of all—well, there's ways of getting information from a corpse. In this case, NMJ's resentful energy is so strong that without the protection of his body, papernan WWX is actually sucked into NMJ's memories against his will! Sure, maybe no one would risk it, and maybe no one who risked it would survive, but especially given that NMJ's fierce corpse is completely obsessed with killing JGY, that's a heck of a risk to take. And look at the description of the protections around NMJ's head:

Suddenly, Wei WuXian noticed that one of the shelves were blocked by a curtain. The curtain was covered in sinister, blood-red runes. It was a talisman of forbiddance, one of extreme power.

Jin GuangYao walked over and lifted the curtain.

For a split second, Wei WuXian thought that he had been exposed. After the faint firelight made its way through the curtain, he found that he was enveloped in a shadow. A circular object just happened to be in front of him.

Jin GuangYao stood still, as though he was staring into the eyes of whatever was inside this shelf.

After a moment, he spoke, “Were you the one looking at me?"

Of course, there couldn’t be any response. He was silent for a while, then let down the curtain.

Wei WuXian quietly attached himself to the object. Cold and hard, it seemed to be a helmet. He then turned to the front. As he had expected, he saw a pallid face. The one who sealed the head wanted it to see nothing, hear nothing, speak nothing, and so incantations had been crowded onto the waxen skin. The eyes, the ears, and the mouth were all sealed tightly shut.

There's containment, it's suppressed to all hell and back, and JGY quite justifiably expects it to be murderously obsessed with him, but to me it doesn't suggest a reciprocal obsession—just more fear.

I'll also note that as a strategy for containing the information about his own involvement it's a very successful operation! It failed in the end /eventually/, but the failure needed:

someone who could successfully break into his private treasure room and escape without being caught

who could also perform Empathy or a similar tecnnique on NMJ's head and survive it

who could successfully recreate from memory the altered Empathy song

whom LXC would be willing to listen to

That's a heck of a tall order!

As to being done with NMJ after the stairs, well, listen to what he says to LXC:

[...]

Jin GuangYao, “It’s not that I don’t know what’s right and what’s wrong, but that sometimes I really can’t help. Nowadays, I have it bad no matter which side I’m on. I have to ensure that I’m on everyone’s good sides. I wouldn’t care if it were someone else, but have I mistreated our eldest brother in any way? Brother, you heard as well. What did he call me?”

[...]

Jin GuangYao was almost sobbing, “If he could say such a thing when he was angry, then just how does he think of me on a daily basis? Is it that because I couldn’t choose my background, because my mother couldn’t choose her fate, I’ll have to be humiliated by others throughout my whole life? If so, then how is Brother different from the people who look down on me? No matter what I do, in the end, just a sentence and I’m ‘the son of a prostitute’.”

And then of course there's what he says to LXC, in his speech to him at the end: "You, on the other hand, ZeWu-Jun, Sect Leader Lan, are as intolerant of me as Nie MingJue—you refuse to spare me even a single breath of life!"

So—wow, this got very long—I don't ship them, and although I think they have very much mattered emotionally to each other, I don't really see them as ever having been in love with or attracted to each other.

A couple of end notes:

In MDZS, NMJ isn't the first (non-MS) person who recognizes MY's worth, although he is the first person to promote him; by the time NMJ promotes MY MY has already met, rescued, and exchanged intimate confidences with LXC, who respects him greatly and thinks he is highly talented (see again the conversation in Hejian which NMJ overhears/eavedrops on).

I've seen people talk about them not understanding each other, but while NMJ certainly doesn't understand JGY, it's not at all obvious that the reverse is true; he generally seems to understand him pretty well. I think he has two surprises overall: first, that he wasn't expecting NMJ to say he didn't promote MY so MY would owe him, and volunteer to send him to his father with a letter of recommendation—and second, he wasn't expecting NMJ, who for all his flaws did seem to ignore JGY's background in good ways as well as bad, to call him the son of a prostitute.

I definitely don't read the coffin at the end as romantic. Or I mean, uh, there's the romance of an obsessive stalker-murderer finally getting his victim, and that's not nothing (unironically; look, I'm a Hannibal fan), but I don't think it's usually what people mean. This is a shitty end for JGY, part of how thoroughly he loses and is destroyed. I think to some extent it might be that he doesn't want LXC to be the one who killed him, and to some extent it's an act of defiance—now that he has nothing to lose, not even his life, he's going to go out fighting. I would expand on this but this post is ridiculously long and I have way too many quotes, maybe I'll do it in a separate post later on—but if you look at the description of it in the text, plus the subsequent description of it in the coffin...yeah. JGY didn't want to die, he didn't want to be engaged in a mutually destructive thing with NMJ; he wanted to leave NMJ behind in the past, and move on. It's not, for him any kind of fulfillment, is my read.

All quotes are taken from the Exiled Rebels translation: ch 48-50 for everything about NMJ and JGY's past relationship, ch. 47 for the description of JGY's containment measures for NMJ's head, and ch. 106-108 for the quotes about JGY's fear of NMJ's fierce corpse. The description of JGY going into the coffin is at the end of 108 if you want to have a look, and there's more in 109 and 110 about the difficulty of sealing NMJ's fierce corpse/its power and violence.

#ship meme #ship negativity #this is so goddamn long #how many quotes can I fit in one post? dear god #also there's no way the coffin is actually staying shut for 100 years see ch. 113 #also I didn't want to rely on material that isn't in the final text but if you do look at the scene of JGY cutting NMJ's head off #the same theme of NMJ's fierce corpse's murderous obsession + JGY's fear are very much there #also I'm not sure I'd call it a notp exactly? like obviously I don't see it but there are versions of it I can kind of enjoy #but I figured I was being well by all accounts it doesn't make sense enough that I wanted to circle it as like. a warning XP #we can't change places #anger burned in his heart #more than one tag could contain #long meta

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kurowrites · 4 years

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Inuyasha au with wangxian? YP dies thinking LWJ betrayed him when coming to give him the stygian iron. Reincarnates in the future with cangse saren as his mum. And then falls into the past and investigates and solves the mystery like canon... only with no kikiyo arc because too sad.

Seriously guys, are you all gluttons for punishment?

Anyway, I’m not sure if this is entirely as hoped for, but:

Wei Ying grows up as a relatively normal, happy child. Only sometimes, he has strange nightmares that wake him up in the middle of the night and that make no sense to him at all. Zombies, blood, death, and endlessly barking dogs. He’s had them ever since he can remember, and though his mother makes a worried face whenever it happens, there’s really nothing that can be done about it.

One day after university classes, a dog barks at WWX on the street, and he ends up running away in a panic. WWX finds himself in a strange, unknown place, an old house slowly falling to pieces. Curious, he wanders around on the premises. In one of the courtyards, he comes across an old, dried out well. And as he peeks into it... something comes out of the well and attacks him. Scared for his life, he tries to fight off whatever this strange creature is, and ends up falling down the well.

Once he finally manages to climb out of it, he finds himself in a world that looks very different from the place he’s just been in before. The dilapitated house is suddenly a beautiful mansion full of people, and everyone is in an uproar. He’s not sure what’s happening, but he hears people saying something about cultivators and supernatural creatures.

He carefully tries to sneak out of the mansion, but the next thing he knows, he is standing face to face with a man all dressed in flowing white robes who looks at him as if he’s the freak here, somehow. He tries to slow-mo out of there, but the man grabs his arm. “Wei Ying,” he says. And WY is like... how the fuck do you know my name???

The man in white looks at him with a strange expression on his face and is like, “You were dead.” And WY is getting really confused here, because he’s definitely been alive for ~25 years now. He doesn’t remember dying.

Wait.

He does remember pain, and screaming, and being very afraid. He remembers blood and death. He remembers feeling anger, and betrayal, and - He wrenches his hand out of the man’s hold. Could it be this man is somehow connected to his recurring nightmares?

Because of the uproar in the mansion, LWJ gets distracted by someone else for a moment, and WY uses the chancce to slip out. He sneaks away, determined to find the quickest way back to where came from.

He doesn’t get very far, though. Shortly after he’s left the mansion, he’s attacked by people who call him a demon and try to kill him with no mercy whatsoever.

The man in white arrives just at the nick of time, and saves him from the attack. And well. WY still doesn’t know if he can trust this man, but he’s also not actively trying to kill him. He guesses he might be safer with him than without.

“How do you know me?” he asks the man who goes by the name Lan Wangji. And LWJ looks at him and says, “We know each other. [strong intimacy implied here]” There’s absolutely no hesitation in his voice. WY’s hair stands up; he’s not sure if this man is the most extreme romantic he’s ever met, or a complete lunatic. Or maybe both.

LWJ brings him back to a place called Cloud Recesses. But no matter where they go, people keep staring at WY as if he’s a two-headed monster. At first, he thinks it’s because he’s dressed very differently from anyone else. But he realises quickly that’s not the case when LWJ dresses him in suitable red-and black robes. It’s his face that makes people stare at him. Which is just plain rude.

The first time someone calls him Wei Wuxian, he’s like... that’s not my name, though. But, he realises quickly, there apparently used to be a person called WWX that wore his very face, and that everybody was terrified of. Extremely terrified, judging from the reaction. The only person that doesn’t seem to be terrified is LWJ. But the way he sometimes looks at WY makes him come to the uncomfortable conclusion that LWJ must have been in love with this WWX, enough to defy his own sect. That makes WY feel... he’s not sure what it makes him feel, or how he’s supposed to think about that. It’s terryifing, somehow.

Before long, other powerful and influential cultivators arrive at Cloud Recesses and demand the extradition of WWX because he’s apparently also a war criminal? But LWJ only frowns severely and beats any opponent into submission simply by sheer stubborn silence.

That’s until Jin Guangyao shows up. He somehow manages to sneak around and corner WY in a desterd corner of Cloud Recesses, far away from LWJ, and before WY knows what’s happening to him, JGY pulls... something out of his chest. JGY’s eyes shine with both madness and desire, and WY immediately knows that whatever this things is that just came out of his body, it can’t get into JGY’s hands. So he fights him for it, as well as he can. In the struggle, he breaks the things into pieces, and the pieces of the broken amulet scatter all over China.

This starts operation “Finding all the pieces of the amulet before JGY can get a hold of them, and also restore WWX’s reputation in the process.” LWJ & WY travel around, while WY learns to use the cultivation powers that have been dormant in him all along apparently, and tries very hard not to fall in love with LWJ, who is still in love with a man that just happens to have the same face as him. It can’t be. And WY will have to return to his own time at some point. Sooner rather than later, really.

Maybe the timelines is also shifted, and the entire thing happens only ~3 years after WWX’s death. LWJ’s wounds are barely healed, and A-Yuan is still small, a child only beginning his own study of cultivation. He still remembers Wei-gege, and gets very attached to WY VERY quickly. WY is faced with the quiet trauma of a still-grieving father and son, and the shadow of a man that’s so much like him and yet so different that he can never hope to stand in the same place that he did. He knows he should stay away from the two. But the way A-Yuan smiles at him, and calls him Wei-gege breaks his heart. And the way LWJ sometimes looks at him, and quietly seeks his physical presence... it would need a stronger man than him to resist that.

#kuro answers #wangxian #mdzs headcanons #anonymous

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inessencedevided · 4 years

Text

The Untamed, episode 48 - watching notes

I've got more tissues prepared because Yunmeng bro feelings always hit me HARD and that's where I left off last time

I find it kinda sweet that lwj is defending Wen Ning

It makes so much sense for Jiang Cheng to immediately bring up his old resentment cor the way his father treated then up. It really all goes back to that. The feeling of being always second best, both to his father in comparison to wwx and to wwx in comparison to lwj. And while wwx sacrificed his core because he thought of himself as inferior to Jiang cheng (not in skill but in worth), to Jiang Cheng it comes off as him once more playing the hero :/

All in all THESE IDIOTS NEVER LEARNED TO PROPERLY COMMUNICATE

Also the way Jiang cheng says "then what am I?" Reminds me a lot of the way he grieved for his core

You know what fucked me up most during this whole conversation?

Because that's it. He can't! 😭

He still loves wei Wuxian and he can't understand why wwx never chose him. Why he chose to protect lwj and the wens when he knew it would endanger their clan. And from that perspective, I get it. I feel like to Jiang Cheng, his clan is everything. It's only natural. He is the (future) clan leader and he was raised that way. It was always going to be his responsibility and at the same time, he always had this very clear cut role in their society.

But wei Wuxian? He loved their family and he did feel at home at their clan, but he was still very much an outsider. Madam Yu hated him, people kept calling him a servant when it suited them and told him to mind his place as such when he spoke up. He could emphasize with the outcasts of society because he himself never truly left that outsider status behind either!

Which left him and Jiang Cheng in opposing positions with no way of understanding the other's point of view

... while still loving each other

😭

Because all they were in the beginning, was two boys being brothers 😥

Which leads me to the conclusion that, once more, the true enemy of this story isn't any single person, it's society.

Okay, sorry that this essentially turned into meta. That's probably not what you're here for, but as thus show comes to an end, I have FEELINGS and THOUGHTS and I need to get them out 😅

I have another rant in my head on whether or not I think wwx was right in transferring Jiang Cheng his ckre without telling him, but I'm holding that in for now 🙈

That I'm sorry. From BOTH of them. 😭

THAT'S GROWTH!!! 😭😭😭

Wei Wuxian saying that it's all in the past now made me cry. So. Much. Because it's an ending. It sounded to me like he wanted to wipe the slate clean. No promises. No betrayals. Start anew. And ... I'm not okay 💔😥

Hey Nie Huaisang. Welcome to the party :D

Um ... what's happening?

Are they ... burning?

Jin Guangyao played with fire and got burned or what kind of metaphor is this?

I'd be about as good as nie Huaisang at hiding my reaction in that situation, tbh ^^

This is the weirdest hostage situation I have ever seen, with everybody just running around sind no one even guarding the hostages

The hell is in that tomb? 😳

Wait ... nie Mingjue was the headless corpse? And okay, the head is obviously seen back on here but ... how did it get there so quickly and WHY is Jin Guangyao surprised?? Wasn't he in possession of the head??

I.am.confused

Poor Huaisang :'(

And poor Jin Ling. He's learning quickly just how fucked up his family is 😬

*dramatic thunder in the distance*

👆 favourite trope of mine :D

It's an oldie but a goodie

Wwx understands something I don't ^^

Also nice to know that even when they're both without powers lwj will still protect his husband 🥰

Okay, so ... someone put the body there. The same somebody who orchestrated everything else

WHO??

Omg, I love how wwx plays at Jin Guangyao's paranoia by essentially manipulating him as he did others and then turns to lwj, with a little shrug and a half smile like

CAN I PLEASE GET 50 EPISODES OF THESE TWO SOLVING MONSTER OF THE WEEK MYSTERIES TOGETHER? 😭

So they FINALLY thought it was a good idea to actually restrain their hostages. Genius!

Wait ... Su She has that hole curse, too?

OHHHH

He was the one who cursed Jin Zixun???

I hadn't even thought about the fact that that was still an unanswered question! 😱😱😱

Jgy telling wwx that they were always going to end up on opposite sides is SO interesting and betrays a level of self-awareness I would not have afforded this guy

The thing is, su she raging at lwj for this is really the wrong address. Not because what he says isn't at least partially right (lwj was born into privilege and there is a stark disparity in how clan disciples and peripheral disciples are treated), even in the lan clan, but not BY lan Wangji. He's the guy who knelt before his uncle and let himself, the sect leader's son, be punished alongside the servant's son.

It's fascinating to see Jin Guangyao's mask fall

And his view of wwx is even more fascinating

He deliberately used wwx status as an outsider to society in combination with his impulsive and righteous character to further his own agenda of setting his own status as an outsider

It's like the ULTIMATE Slytherin vs. Gryffindor story line 😁

Also SOCIETY IS THE VILLAIN!!!

I'm not gonna lie, Jin Guangyao nakes some good points. Not saying he's not a terrible person or that he's not responsible for his own actions, but still he's successfully identified a lot of systematic problems in the cultivation world 🤷‍♀️

... and then proceeded to horribly exploit them for his own benefit *sighs*

Very sneaky, Wei Ying. I don't know what you're doing it, but good job getting him to keep talking

Xichen really be regretting all his life choices right now

It breaks my heartba bot, knowing that they really did bond that first time they met. And Xichen believed in him ever since 🥺

As sorry as I feel for him, I'm pretty sure it's going to get worse 🙈

OH MY GOD WWX CAN CONTROL GHOSTS BY WHISTLING ALONE NOW?

That is simultaneously SO cool and SO creepy! 😱

And kinda hot

On a related note, I realized that wwx is basically a Necromancer Bard and now I really wanna play one

Ohhh, the sword ghost!

😳

Isn't Xichen without powers right now?

No!!!

Puh, su she didn't kill him

But now I'm confused how lwj can use his powers

Ohhh

He's got the stygian tiger amulet?

I'm missing some crucial bit of plot here because I fo not know how he could have gotten it

I mean ... Xue Yang had half of it right? So ... is it this piece?

HE PLANNED THE WHOLE THING ALREADY BACK THEN??? 😱

Or ... not the whole thing? I feel I'll have to watch the show again just to discover what Jin Guangyao even knew and when 🙈

The way jgy looks at Xichen, there us real affection and regret in his gaze :(

Still I did not see THIS coming

He does care for Xichen, doesn't he? Who always saw the best in him. Never once treated him as below him for who his mother was.

But I dont think lan Xichen will give him a second chance right now, tbh. Just from the way he acted, he looked like his trust was irreparably shattered 😥

Meanwhile...

Wwx is tired of your monologueing :D

I apologise for the weird mix of stream-of-cosciousness musings and half-formed meta musings 😅

Also all the typos ...

(And who sent the letter and hit the body??? 😭)

@sweetlittlevampire @fandom-glazed @elenirlachlagos @allhailthedramallama @luckymoony @kyrrahbird @i-love-him-on-purpose

Tomorrow I'll watch the jast two episodes and ... I can't quite believe it 😔

I'm just happy that I'm reading the book now and still got so much to look forward to there, otherwise I think l might draw out this show even longer

#the untamed #sophie watches the untamed #wei wuxian #wwx #lan wangji #wangxian #lan xichen #jin guangyao #jin ling #jiang cheng #nie huaisang

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angstymdzsthoughts · 4 years

Text

Ignorance is a bliss

Imagine if “come to gusu with me” ends up with wwx passed out of exhaustion before he could reject the offer. Lwj did brought him to gusu and under the jurisdiction of the elders, after wwx is nursed back to health, his demonic cultivation must be sealed and he must received say maybe 15 lashes as punishment for straying off the righteous path before were sent to seclusion with lwj so that wwx will finally be ‘cleansed’. Wwx wasnt happy ofc but what he could do with his powers are sealed away? Now , 5 strokes of discipline whip may cause a cultivator bedridden for months, how about to a non cultivator ? It must affect them severely so that is why discipline whip can never be used to a non cultivator. Lwj was forced to a house arrest guarded by three disciples due to him trying to (forcefully) persuade the elders to not hurt wwx. Lwj never thought that the elders were so hell bent on punishing wwx , where he promised wwx that gusu will be his safe haven (oh lwj, ignorance is a bliss).

The elders of Lan assumed that wwx’s core is still intact but maybe diminished due to demotic cultivation. So they still proceeded with the punishment. But halfway through the session, wwx lose consciousness and healers were called to heal him so that they could finish the punishment.However, upon trying to heal him , the healers discovered that wwx does not have a golden core. Lxc was horrified and ultimately barked an order to bring wwx to the sect’s infirmary to put him to rest. Glaring at lqr and the elders , he told them if wwx did not survive the ordeal , they would have become a murderer.

Lwj was devastated on the state wwx in. Wwx had a bad fever due to infection despite how hard the healers were trying to use medication. Bandages were changed thrice a day to ensure the infection does not spread to other parts of body. Wwx never gained consciousness for 3 months. He was delirious in fever as his health rapidly declining over the days. Healers concluded that wwx may not he able to perform his daily routine without help as the whip has cause major backlash on his physical and mental health.

After a discussion, the lans decided to finally informed the jiang sects of the situation wwx was in. JC was on his way when wwx woke up. Wwx was in confusion and struggling to get out of his bed. Lxc and lwj had to restrain him to ensure he doesn’t hurt himself. The last thing wwx remembered that his back and legs were excruciating painful and people in white robes are the cause of it.Paranoia settles in him causing wwx to be on alert every second and never utter a single word after waking up, not even to lwj. For wwx, lwj has brought him to gusu because he hated wwx so much that he let those people hurt him. He was betrayed.

Although he was reluctant at first, he forced himself to eat to regained his strength and escape this hell. When the jc arrives at gusu with a group of disciples , lxc and the elders met them at the entrance leaving lwj and wwx alone at the room. Wwx for the first time spoke to lwj, requesting for a new change of robe. “I just dont want anyone to see me in this dirty robe” . Lwj acquiesced.

When lwj came back with new set of fresh robes and a basin of hot water , wwx was gone. Due to the envoy from Jiang sect , the entrance was not guarded as usual and wwx miraculously managed to flee gusu. Wwx put his guard up even he has successfully escape and ran to the most secluded part of Caiyi town. After resting for few hours and after the adrenaline was gone ,wwx realised that he was severely injured and crippled. His left leg cannot be bend without causing painful jolt like feeling. Him running all the way from gusu to caiyi with a bleeding back and hurting leg was indeed a miracle. Now , if walking was painful , then running was courting death. With careful planning using his survival skills and experience , wwx continues his painstaking slow journey and enters a forest , opposite direction of gusu and lotus pier. Wwx was last seen by a fruit vendor of Caiyi Town ; limping away without a trace.

Lwj without a doubt used an inquiry to find wwx , but wwx was an ambitious lad. Wwx somehow managed to create a talisman that can hide his presence even to spirits. Jc has issued posters all over the place , in hopes that someone might give an intel for him to find his brother but to no avail , no one has a clue of where wwx has been gone to. Wwx - like a ghost , has disappeared . JYL and JXZ was also at deeps end, unable to trace her missing brother. Other major sects also keep an eye for wwx, though the Lan clan has claimed that wwx’s demonic cultivation was sealed and was severly injured, who knows what can that young man do ?

Timeskip to 13 years later, JL LJY and LSZ (assuming that the siege never happened, but lwj adopted a-yuan as per requested by wq and wn to ensure he was raised at a proper & healthy background and the wen remnants survived and disperse for safety) was attacked at goddess temple only to be saved by a mystery crippled guy with mask (JL: a non cultivator nonetheless!) (LJY: what an amazing talent ! Only using talisman to beat the statue!). The teenagers were awestruck with the masked man’s skill, that they wanted to thanked him with a meal and few drinks but was rejected and the man leaves.

JL who never accepts no for an answers suggest to secretly follows the man so that they can send drinks or some offering for him to his house instead. Ljy and Lsz tagged along as they were curious of their saviour after all. A non cultivator cannot detect presence like a cultivator do, so the man was unaware that he was tailed. Upon arriving an old shack with a small potato farm , the man limped and sat with a grunt. Taking off his mask , he took a bottle of water and consumed a few concoction of medicine before coughing. The teenagers was surprised on the living condition of their saviour. JL however upon seeing the face of the man, went wide eyes.

“That man, he was in the poster my jiujiu used to issue around LP . My A-niang talks about him a lot,” looking over his other two confused companions. “I can never forget that face. The face that always make my mother cry upon looking at his picture and frown at his name. He is my missing big uncle , Wei Wuxian of Jiang Sect.”

“Ah i heard about him. Apparently our Elders punished him until he was missing his golden core , i think? Or is it the other way around?” Ljy spoke. “But i think the limping was the consequences from our Sects’ punishment. That time , Lan sect and Jiang Sect almost broke the treaty. I heard Madame Jiang managed to convinced your uncle to stop”.

They saw the man plowing a part of his potato field ,who occasionally stopped due to his heavy cough and resume his work. “Wwx , he is the person my father has been looking for the past 13 years. I need to let him know” Lsz finally spoke, smiling.

“Oh my potatoes , I hope you grew up fat and yummy for this master over here! I need more money , or i wont be able to buy medicine. You dont want me to die yet are you~” sang wwx. The 3 looked at each other and finally decides to leave for their respective inn, bringing a joyous news for their leaders.

Next day, both JC and lwj accompanied by the 3 went to wwx’s house. Both heartbroken on the state of the old shack . Knocking the wooden door and clearly listening on the voice mumbling from inside “who the hell would come here early in the morning at middle of a forest”, jc and lwj was shocked on the physical appearance of their missing person. Sunken cheeks and dark eyes as indication of fatigue , limping , voice hoarse from sickness and the obvious whipping scars marring from behind his neck to under the ragged clothes , jc couldnt help but to greet wwx with a hug , holding him so gentle in fear that wwx would break with the slightest of strength. Wwx frozen in shock couldnt hug back but made eye contact with lwj. “Weiying, please forgive me that I couldn’t protect you. I am very sorry.” After 13 years of internal pain and agony , wwx for the first time shed his tears . “I forgive you , so you all should leave me alone. I am a burden. Im no longer a cultivator , but a crippled man with not much time to left. I am nothing but a burden. Please” sobbed wwx.

“Idiot. Give us a chance to take care of you. A-jie misses you so much, every day and night. You haven’t met your nephew , Jing Ling . Don’t you want to eat her soup? And about your health, i can call WenQing to help you. She is still the best doctor alive. Come back with us , okay ? And no one will hurt you. “ jc.

Wwx was shocked to hear wq was still alive and her name was spoken by jc without an ounce of hatred. What have been happening for the past few years he have been isolating himself ? With shaking hands , he grabbed jc’s robe and nodded. He made another eye contact with lwj and could see how sincere he is from his eyes. Maybe , all this time , the fact that lwj hates me and sending me to my demise was all a misunderstanding?

“I am no more a cultivator.”

“It’s fine , WeiYing”

“I cannot contribute to Jiang sect anymore.”

“Who cares about that, idiot?”

“I’m going to be a burden !!! I cant even walk properly. My health is deteriorating”

“WeiYing, if tired , I can carry. Let me take care of you when sick”

“Lan Zhan, i dont want to go to gusu”

“We can go anywhere other than Gusu.”

“I wont let you take a single step to that damn place , no offence Second Young master Lan”

“None taken.”

———

(Alternate ending)

Wwx was still unconscious and attacked by a high fever due to infection in his wound. Numerous method has been used to mitigate the after effect of the whip , but to no avail. Infection starts to spread to his legs, and wwx was delirious and moaning in his sleep due to pain. The severity of the wound caused both of his legs to sepsis and the healers has no other way than to amputate the legs to make sure that the infection will not spread internally.

After the surgery of removing wwx’s legs , the infection are able to be minimised but still needs to be monitored. Still, wwx has no signs of waking up. Lwj was loyal to his side , taking care of changing the bandages . Every night , lwj had a nightmare of the reaction of wwx waking up with no legs . One particular nightmare that haunts him the most is weiying took out his own life out of despair. Lwj couldnt sleep for two nights watching over wwx after that nightmare occurs.

After 6 days, lqr visited the room and berates lwj for neglecting his duty as a student of Lan sect. Lwj angrily talks back, and was taken to kneel in the hall for one day. When he came back , no one was watching wwx. He came back with pure silence from wwx .Where there should a ragged breathing from wwx , it was only silence. Wwx’s usually pale lips was ashen. Bandaged chest that should be heaving was still. Wwx finally succumbed to his injuries after 11 days of fighting and lwj (again) was not by his side. His sect (again) are the cause of pain for his beloved ones and has taken everything from him.

—-

Wow took this one hour and a half. This is my second time posting here. 😋 enjoy?

-b

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crossdressingdeath · 4 years

Text

Okay I’ve had a very long day and people are being super defensive of JC on my dash so uh. I’m gonna talk shit about him for a bit. Because it’ll make me feel better. And I don’t want anyone arguing with me about this so I’ll put it behind a cut and if you don’t want to read someone talking shit about JC in a super unstructured manner then... don’t click read more, I guess?

So here’s one thing, to start. In The Untamed specifically, I can argue with near-absolute certainty that JC killed WWX. LWJ had him, and that guy is insanely strong; I don’t doubt for a second he could’ve pulled WWX up if he’d been given the chance. Maybe JC didn’t put a blade through WWX’s heart himself, but if he had stayed out of it WWX probably would’ve lived. I don’t know how long he would’ve lived, and I doubt he would’ve thanked LWJ for saving him, but he probably wouldn’t have died on that cliff. Hell, killing him quickly might have been a kindness; I’m not an expert on how far you have to fall to die instantly on impact and I don’t know how high that cliff was, but depending on how he landed and if he bounced off anything on the way down it’s possible (though maybe not likely) that WWX wouldn’t have died right away. If I had to choose between a quick death via a blade through a vital part or a more lasting death via serious internal damage from a very long fall... Yeah, I’d take the stabbing. Obviously I’m not saying that not being able to go through with killing his brother makes JC a bad person; I’m just saying that when his choices were doing nothing (which, reminder, here means letting LWJ pull WWX up (or at least try to)), helping LWJ save his brother, finishing WWX off quickly (JC is trained in combat, I’m sure he knows where to stab for the most merciful death possible under those circumstances), or letting WWX fall to his death... I just find it interesting that JC chose the latter.

Hell, even before that, if JC had done something sooner a whole lot of pain could’ve been avoided. (We’re out of the Untamed-exclusive stuff, by the way.) Now, I get that as a very new sect leader of a sect that was almost obliterated JC’s position is... precarious, to say the least. However! An awkward position doesn’t automatically mean he can pretty much abandon his brother! That is not how familial ties work! Especially when he never takes WWX’s position (which was equally precarious if not more so) into account while talking about how WWX abandoned him.

Put yourself in JC’s shoes for a moment, here. Most of your family is dead. Your brother, you know, was thrown into a hell pit and hasn’t been seen for three months. Then, joy of joys, you find him again! Except now your ever-cheerful, ever-kindhearted brother can raise the dead and, oh yeah, has spent all his time since escaping the hell pit that no one survives torturing people to death with demonic cultivation. What do you do in this situation? I’m fairly sure your answer was not “Throw him on the front lines as your most valuable weapon without giving him so much as a chance to come to terms with all the horrible things that have clearly happened to him”. Yes, yes, they were in the middle of war, but you don’t get to throw your very obviously messed up brother onto the front lines and then be shocked when there are serious consequences for doing that.

Also, going back to positions: People talk a lot about how JC’s position was so difficult, and I’m not saying it wasn’t, but... here’s the thing. WWX’s position was so much worse. JC is the sect leader of an old and powerful sect. The Jiangs might have lost a great deal, but there are still alliances he could call on, favours he could probably cash in, treasures reclaimed from the Wens he could use... He’s not exactly helpless. He has to be careful, but he’s not entirely defenseless. Meanwhile, WWX is the incredibly powerful demonic cultivator with a dangerous weapon everyone wants to get their hands on and a brother he’s known to have a somewhat strained relationship with. We see in canon that the sects are actively hunting for a chance to get their teeth into him after the Sunshot Campaign wraps up. All WWX has is his own power and JC’s support. I keep coming back to what JGY says at the temple, about how JC made WWX an easy target by making it obvious their relationship was rocky, and... he’s right. I doubt JC intended to do it, but he made it very easy for the sects to split WWX off from him. And while JC was still a sect leader and largely untouchable, WWX was infinitely more vulnerable. Again, I doubt he meant to paint a target on his brother’s back, but the fact that he missed it in favour of getting pissy about WWX being better than him yet again says something about him.

The fact that he says there’s nothing he can do after WWX absconds with the Wen remnants says... something else. Now, I’m terrible with politics; while he definitely should have supported his brother in a perfect world, with a sect to look after and JGS hunting for weak points I genuinely don’t know if he could have at that point. (Again, I really do think he should’ve tried to step in before things got to this point, but... well, he didn’t. No use crying over spilled milk and all that.) So okay, he couldn’t do anything. I’ll take him at his word; if nothing else, I can believe he was too bad with both politics and people and too inexperienced to find a way to step in. But he then takes his brother’s request to remove him from the Jiang sect to avoid any trouble coming to their doorstep and goes off and tells the sects that his brother is a traitor. Let me put that another way. He tells the people who are looking for an excuse to murder his brother and take his writings and inventions for themselves that his brother has betrayed them. I think we have reached the point where malice and stupidity become impossible to tell apart. Honestly, I can only see two possible thought processes for this: Either he actually wants to bring the sects down on WWX’s heads (unlikely) or he’s so terrible at politics that he genuinely didn’t realize what the logical result of his words would be (more likely, but means his parents did a terrible job of teaching him how to be a sect leader). Although, given he apparently spent enough of the 13 years between WWX’s death and resurrection spending so much time torturing demonic cultivators to death because either he thought they might be WWX or they just reminded him of him that most of the citizens in his territory are too scared to go to Lotus Pier for help unless they’re in imminent life-threatening danger I don’t think you can argue he was a good sect leader by any stretch...

Oh! Speaking of parents and teaching: Jin Ling. Now, part of this might be a cultural thing that I’m not familiar with, but JC is an absolutely god-awful guardian. Pretty much all he does is insult JL, belittle him, or threaten him. Yeah, he cares in his own way, but take it from me: When your parents (or uncle, in this case) spend most of their time insulting you but also keep you safe from any external danger and do their best to help you grow, you don’t end up a happy, well-adjusted adult; you end up miserable and confused because you can’t hate or like the person raising you and get stuck between love and resentment. JL is clearly desperate for affection, but he can’t admit that to anyone. It’s no surprise he mourns for JGY so deeply even after everything; the guy was pretty much the only one in the poor kid’s life to treat him with open, honest affection before he met WWX! The comparison between him and Sizhui (as the only other child raised by the main cast) is striking; even though LWJ seems like he should be just as bad a parent, he raises Sizhui with love and kindness, and so did WWX before him. And the result is... so very different. Sizhui is the very goodest of boys and I love him with all my heart. Anyway, it’s no wonder JL gravitates towards WWX and defends him once he’s gotten past his initial reaction of stabbing the guy; WWX is so open and explicit with his affection! Is he a perfect parent? No, probably not. But he focuses more on making it clear to his army of juniors that he loves them and respects them as people and wants them to be happy with where they end up in life than he does on making them fit his image of what they should be. Of course someone who’d be raised with JC copying his mother and constantly getting on their case about not being good enough would gravitate towards someone like that.

Okay, this is getting long. Last point: WWX has to put in so much emotional labour in their relationship even before everything goes tits up? The best example for me is the scene where WWX promises they’ll be together forever, Twin Heroes of Yunmeng, the huge promise that both JC and an annoyingly large portion of the audience think he should’ve kept no matter what. Yeah, out of context it’s very sweet, but in context? WWX has just barely recovered from the fight with the Xuanwu. He’s been conscious for... maybe an hour, at most? He nearly died. And yet he has to drag himself out of bed to chase JC through Lotus Pier to comfort him because JFM was paying more attention to WWX. Who, again, almost died. JC is so busy being pissy about this that he forces his brother, still recovering, to chase him through Lotus Pier to comfort him for something their parents did. Most of the time, JC has a right to be upset that JFM so obviously prefers WWX. Looking in from the outside the situation is clearly more complicated than he paints it, but I don’t blame him for not seeing how bad things are for the rest of the family. ...I know that sounds sarcastic, but I do mean it. His siblings are very good at hiding how badly their family situation has hurt them. Anyway, though, on this one occasion I am entirely on JFM’s side here. WWX threw himself into danger so JC wouldn’t have to go to the indoctrination camp alone even though he didn’t have to, then some time later JC returns alone and informs him that WWX is trapped in a cave with the Xuanwu of Slaughter, then when JFM finally manages to reach him the Xuanwu is dead and WWX is all but dead. I 100% do not blame him for focusing on WWX in this situation! He did something fully-grown cultivators with far more experience failed at and almost died in the process! Given JC must be... what, 16 at the youngest, probably older by this point? I would expect him to grasp that. He’s old enough to have developed empathy. Hell, he should be right there with his father and sister, proud of WWX’s accomplishments and relieved to see him awake and recovering. Instead, WWX has to drag himself through Lotus Pier and swear to stay by JC’s side for the rest of their lives just to get him to stop sulking because WWX was better than him yet again.

...Yeah, as you might have grasped, I don’t think WWX had any obligation to uphold that promise. He shouldn’t have been expected to be tied to Lotus Pier by a vow he made as a teenager to get his brother to cheer up. In fact, a very large part of me wishes he’d broken it sooner. Comparing the way JC treats him to the way the Wens and LWJ treat him (setting aside that those are of course very different kinds of love) I can’t help but think things might have gone infinitely better for him if he’d found a different family a lot earlier.

#anyway no discourse on this post pls #this is just me screaming into the void about my deepseated dislike of all this stuff acting like he's a flawless character #grapehate

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