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loganofthenorth · 2 years

Note

Do you have any ships you don't like?

Ever just look into your inbox and realize you have a bunch of asks you forgot about? Ha could be me

That was going to say couldn't be me but auto correct changed it and it's not wrong so I'm leaving it

Anywho, ships I don't like? Yes of course, I have many.

Obviously there's the forbidden ship r*mr*m that shouldn't even be a thing so I'm not going to dignify it with a paragraph

Then there's Logicality which I've written about before. I used to like it, but after rewatching Sanders Sides twice I realized they aren't very healthy for each other in a romantic sense. Patton seems to make Logan out to be the bad guy when he's just trying to help, and Logan tends to snap when his patience runs thin. Also the Skip incident in SVS Redux, where Patton asked for Logan's input before silencing him because Logan's opinion went against his.

Then there's Intruality, I love it in AUs under certain circumstances, but it's a big fat No in cannon. It doesn't work because if you look at Sanders Sides from Remus's perspective, Patton is a manipulative abuser. If you look at Sanders Sides from Patton's perspective, Remus is a bad guy that lashes out for no reason. Like, sure, one could say that they might work through that and think they misunderstood each other. However, neither of them are technically wrong. Besides, considering that Remus exists because his version of creativity was morally frowned upon, and was therefore repressed so that Roman could be a morally appropriate version of creativity, a romantic relationship would be awkward at absolute best. Honestly if they do somehow work on their issues with each other, the best outcome would be that Remus and Patton's relationship would become a sort of father that abandoned his son and now they're reconnecting kind of thing.

Then there's Moxiety, this one is just because I see Patton and Virgil in a father/son relationship. Also, the fact that Virgil is Thomas's fears and fear is an emotion, which Patton has dominion over, it's possible that Patton is actually Virgil's father in the same way that Roman and Remus are brothers. I also believe that the Orange Side is anger, and if that's the case, he would be Patton's son as well.

I can go into that theory in another post though.

Next is Royality, and yes I know, you're probably sensing a pattern.

Now, don't get me wrong. While Patton is my least favourite character, that doesn't mean I hate him. I actually love Patton, especially in episodes like the puppet episode where he shows incredible emotional maturity that is really helpful to Thomas.

I also love how complicated of a character he is, and it's sad that the fandom simplifies him to just a happy, nice, cute, silly character, because he's more than that. He has severe depression, and a lot of issues that come from that. He also grew up taking catholic views to heart, following all the morals Thomas was taught as well as he can.

On top of that, he manages emotions, which is such an incredibly complicated thing to be in charge of. He manages instincts, like when Thomas feels good for doing something good, or when Thomas is hungry, or thirsty, or whatever else. He manages a large percentage of Thomas's likes, dislikes, sense of humour, inner child, and more. Patton has a large mountain of responsibilities, which adds to the complexity of his character.

He also appears to be very manipulative, whether or not he intends to be using manipulation tactics, I don't know. I think his character's too complicated to know that for sure. However, he's done a lot of love bombing, guilt tripping, and other manipulative actions that make him out to be this innocent good guy and anyone that disagrees with him to look like a bad guy.

Due to how complex of a character Patton is, and due to how he has made himself a father figure to most of the sides, it's hard to enjoy him in most ships in cannon. The only ship that works well for him is Moceit, in my opinion, because Janus is working with him to help Patton work through these issues. Patton is also good for Janus because Janus needs to learn how to communicate in a way that doesn't seem like he's attacking or sabotaging Thomas/the other sides.

Now, with that aside, back to Royality.

Royality is a very best friend or father/son relationship. More best friend in AUs and Father/Son in both cannon and AUs. I say more father son in cannon, because Roman has shown a desire to gain Patton's approval. He tries to follow Patton's rules, even though every time he finally manages to meet Patton's impossible standards, suddenly they change and turn around completely. (I have ranted about this several times and will likely do it again in future posts.)

Now, with those out of the way, yes there is more.

Next is Logince

I like Logince in AUs, and it's not that I don't think Logan and Roman's dynamic is amazing, it's not that I think they wouldn't work romantically, I just see them more as a brotherly relationship. Roman treats Logan like an older brother that he fights a lot with, but at the end of the day he just wants to be good enough for Logan. The way they talk about Patton to each other is a lot like Roman being a teenage brother complaining about their Dad and how lame/strict/embarrassing/etc he is to his adult brother.

Then there's Anxceit. This one I don't like because I see Janus as a mother figure to Virgil and Remus. I guess it could work in AUs, but to get their dynamic right, it would probably be a friends to enemies to lovers situation. Like Catradora. Also Janus and Virgil still have a lot of bad blood to work through, so if I'm wrong about the mother/son bond and they were just friends before, then Anxceit would probably have a lot of work to do and an awkward patching up before they can be in a healthy relationship.

Now there's Demus and Roceit. Which, maybe they shouldn't be on this list, because I do like these ships, but I do want to talk about them.

Demus I tend to feel meh about, it's basically dark side Royality. They work as a mother/son dynamic or best friends, not really romantic partners. However, I love them when it's Intruloceit, because I love Loceit and Intrulogical.

Roceit, this is friends to enemies to lovers galore. Roceit is not a healthy ship currently, but it's definitely an entertaining one. Due to Roman's insecurities and Janus using Roman for his greater plan, however, I don't know if a romantic relationship would work in cannon. It depends on where the story goes from where we are right now. However this is the perfect enemies to lovers ship for AUs if you get bored of Prinxiety's popularity.

Now what's interesting about Demus and Roceit is that if you believe in the theory that Roman and Remus were once King Creativity, which I do, and if you've seen the King AU, which I have, that adds all kinds of layers of complicated to Demus and Roceit. Of course, I may go over that in a future post.

Sorry this was so long, I hope you enjoyed my infodump!

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fangirlwriting-stories · 2 years

Text

To Create A Living

Summary: Roman had never been more excited in his life than when Thomas decided to pursue a creative career. He'd been over the moon!

If only he'd stayed that way.

...

For a while after Thomas switched careers, Roman was on Cloud 9. He was overwhelmed with excitement and ideas and hopes. All of his plans about making Thomas into a star would finally come true!

When Thomas got his first couple roles and put his first couple videos out on Vine, the exhilaration just got stronger, and Roman could regularly be found dancing around the mindscape and singing in excitement.

He’d never expected to have this chance! He’d been regulated to the sidelines for far too long, but now it was finally his, and more importantly Thomas,’ chance to shine! This would be amazing, and everything was finally falling into place, and there was nothing that could take it from him!

…Then the first rent bill showed up.

Thomas had enough to pay, but it was a closer thing than he really liked, and that was the first time there was a little doubt in his head about whether or not this was the right call.

Roman didn’t like that doubt, but at the same time, there was a tiny voice in the back of his head that got it. It was difficult to amaze audiences without a stable roof over your head and food on your table. That had just never been Roman’s job before.

Nevertheless, he reassured Thomas when he came to him in concern, and Roman worked twice as hard the next month. Thomas made more money and could be more comfortable with how much he had left for groceries, and savings, and a little fun outside of work. Thomas was grateful, and proud of him, which felt amazing.

The thing is.

Roman was exhausted.

He’d never had to do a full time gig before, and having to make quality ideas while also worrying about making enough quality ideas to afford all of Thomas’ needs was incredibly stressful. By the time Thomas finished paying the bills for the months Roman felt about ready to collapse, and there would just be more next month.

Clearly he had to do something else. That, however, implied he had some other ideas. And he was kind of fresh out of those lately. He needed time to rest that he didn’t have.

Or, not necessarily. He could probably work on something. He just needed an idea first.

Which is why he started sort of shopping around for one.

He started with Patton, which wouldn’t seem like a good plan, except for the fact that all of his other options were worse. It’s not like he was actually going to consider talking to Remus, Deceit, or Anxiety. And Logan was… well. And he couldn’t reveal to Thomas that he was out of ideas, that was the whole problem. So he started with Patton.

“You don’t want to use one of your ideas?” Patton asked in confusion.

“Well, of course I do,” Roman said, waving his hand dismissively. “But I just have so many to choose from, and I wanted to see what other people were thinking to find some kind of way to narrow down all of the incredible ideas I have.”

“Oh, that makes sense,” Patton said with a bright smile. “Well, creativity isn’t really my strong suit, kiddo. But I’m sure whatever you end up choosing will be amazing! You’re so good at this, after all.”

Roman had to fight to keep the smile on his face. “Well, thanks so much, Padre. You’ve been a huge help.”

“Anytime kiddo!”

So Patton was as unhelpful as Roman really should have expected he’d be. Meaning he’d have to go to one of the other terrible options for help with an idea.

In this, Remus really was the obvious least of four evils. Anxiety was impossible to deal with, Deceit would never stop talking Roman in circles long enough to be helpful, and Logan was… well.

Remus’ ideas were never actually helpful on their own, but maybe Roman could find something marginally useful that he could expand on.

So, feeling more than a little disgusted with himself, he found himself knocking on his brother’s door, late at night, when no one could see.

“No, I’m not putting my bear trap back and you can’t make me!” Remus called from the other side.

“Why would I care about your bear trap?” Roman called back as loud as he dared.

There was a pause, and then Remus yanked his door open. Before Roman could say anything, Remus pulled him inside, grabbed him by the waist, and flipped him upside down.

Roman yelped as something caught his ankle and pulled him further upright, dangling him upside down from the ceiling.

Remus shut the door behind him and walked around Roman like a predator sizing up his prey.

“Well,” he said with a shrug. “Not how I expected to test that one, but it seems to work. Now what the hell are you doing here?”

“I—” Roman’s face heated up, as apparently he wasn’t already as humiliated as it was possible to be. “I need your help,” he mumbled, trying to hide what he was saying by turning his head to the side.

“I’m sorry, what was that?”

Roman grumbled it again.

“What was that?” Remus asked, leaning close enough to his face that Roman could smell his terrible breath, and he gagged.

“I need your help, asshole,” he snapped.

Remus cackled, and whacked something off to the side that Roman couldn’t see. The trap holding his ankle in place loosened all at once, and Roman landed hard on his back on the ground.

He stared up at the ceiling and wheezed, trying to get back the breath that had been knocked out of him, but before he could, Remus yanked him up by the waist again and tossed him across the room. Thankfully, this time he at least landed on the bed— in something wet.

“Ew!” Roman exclaimed, leaping upright and snapping his fingers to get whatever it was off of him.

Remus cackled again. “Aww, can’t handle a little mysterious substance?”

“Why are you like this?” Roman groaned.

“Hey, you came to ask me for help,” Remus said, summoning his morningstar so he could lean casually on the handle. He grinned up at Roman. “Finally realized you’re useless at this?”

Roman squeezed his eyes shut and tried to breathe past the shame welling up in his chest. “Shut up.”

“Ooh, you did!” Remus said brightly. He snapped his fingers, and suddenly Roman was midair, just momentarily before he dropped onto a couch. He glanced back over at Remus to find him wearing stereotypical therapist glasses and holding a clipboard.

“Now,” he said, leaning forward and patting Roman on his head. “Why don’t you tell me all about where this long-awaited breakthrough came from.”

“Could you take this seriously for once in your fucking life?” Roman snapped, jumping to his feet and waving his hands and making the illusion disappear. “Do you think I would be here if I wanted to be?”

“Well, taking things seriously isn’t really my area,” Remus said with a grin. “You picked the wrong side, Roro!”

Roman groaned and dropped his head into his hands. “Why did I think this would be helpful?”

“I have no clue, really a mistake on your part.”

Roman sighed again and picked his head up. “I’m going back to brainstorming. Thanks for nothing.”

“Again? Ro, slow down,” Remus said, raising an eyebrow.

“I can’t,” Roman snapped. “I need to come up with enough good ideas that Thomas likes and that other people like. That or he needs to get more paying roles, but that hasn’t been happening so far.”

“If you worry too much about what other people like you’re gonna burn yourself out,” Remus said, giving him a look. “You need to pace yourself.”

Roman grit his teeth. “I can’t,” he snapped. “Because people liking Thomas’ creations pays our bills now, Remus!”

“So?” Remus said, rolling his eyes.

“So? Do you want Thomas to miss his rent and end up on the streets?”

“Yes!” Remus said with a bright grin.

“Of course you do,” Roman mumbled, rolling his own eyes. “Thanks for the help. So glad there’s two of us doing this job.”

Remus flipped him off as he sank out.

In all honesty, Roman really should have known better than to ask Remus for help. But regardless, he’d given it a shot, and it had left him with no idea, less time to think of one, and fewer options.

Deceit or Anxiety.

Again, an obvious choice, really.

“Why Roman, I was most definitely expecting your visit,” Deceit said, a smile already forming on his face as he opened the door. “You so often make trips to this side of the mindscape.”

“I don’t, but that’s not the point,” Roman said. “You’re a creative side, in your own way, right?”

“Of course, I understand your plight completely,” Deceit said, leaning against the doorframe. “Things are so difficult for you nowadays.”

“I know, right?” Roman exclaimed, because he couldn’t help it. It was actually really nice to have someone acknowledge that his job had just gotten significantly harder. He hadn’t expected such understanding from Deceit, but he was glad to have it from someone. “I didn’t think being in charge of Thomas’ job would be so much work!”

“Of course not, why would you?” Deceit said with a sympathetic nod.

“Exactly, I—” Roman caught himself, running a hand through his hair. “Sorry, I’m not trying to be a bother. I’m sure you have other things going on, it’s just…” Roman hesitated, looking up at Deceit. “I didn’t expect you to be so understanding.”

“Well as you said yourself, I am something of a creative side myself,” Deceit said, waving his hand. “Thomas lies every time he performs, after all.”

“Oh, I don’t know if I’d define it quite like that,” Roman said, rubbing the back of his neck. Wait, no, if he wanted to win Deceit over in this interaction, he needed to be obliging. “But I can absolutely see where you’re coming from. That’s not why I’m here, though. I, er, I was wondering if I could speak with you for a moment? If you’re not too busy.”

“Too busy for you? Never,” Deceit said with a smirk, though he stepped out of his room and shut the door instead of letting Roman come in. He gestured for Roman to follow him, and when Roman did, he led them both over towards the kitchen.

Roman wasn’t super thrilled at the idea of talking about this out in the open, but he was using Deceit’s time. It was only fair Deceit got to pick the location, he supposed.

Deceit simply sat down at the table and looked at Roman expectantly, raising an eyebrow.

Roman sat down in the other chair across from Deceit and cleared his throat. “I, well, I was thinking about what Thomas should make next. And I was trying to narrow down the very long list of ideas I definitely have.”

“Of course,” Deceit said smoothly.

“And they’re just all so amazing, naturally, that I’m having trouble doing it,” Roman said, trying a dramatic flair with his hands to show how confident he definitely was.

“That sounds like such a difficult problem to have,” Deceit said with a nod.

“So I was wondering if you had any thoughts. Just so I could, you know, have an idea of some kind of consensus.”

Deceit smiled, folding his hands together. “Oh Roman, what a brilliant idea,” he said. “You truly are an intelligent side to know to come to me for help.”

“Heh, yeah, thanks,” Roman said, trying to puzzle out why that didn’t exactly feel like a compliment when Deceit clearly meant it as one.

“And of course I’ll help in any way I can,” Deceit said. “I’m just surprised you want it from me.”

Roman blinked. “What do you mean?”

“Well, I’m one of the big bad villains, aren’t I? Anxiety and Remus and I all just want to hurt you, don’t we? That’s what you’ve all decided on?” Deceit said.

“Oh, I— I mean that’s not—”

“And here you are, asking for my help like we’ve never done you any wrong in your life. Wow, you really are such a forgiving side, Roman. And I admire your ability to admit you need help doing your job. Not many sides would have the confidence to do that, you know.”

“Um, thank you,” Roman muttered, though he was suddenly not feeling as confident as Deceit seemed to think he was.

“It’s alright, you can rest assured that I don’t see you any differently at all,” Deceit said, reaching out and patting Roman on the arm. “In fact, I still have total confidence in your ability to complete this task without my help. But I’m so humbled that you’ve asked for my opinion anyway. You surely don’t need it.”

Roman blinked. “Uh, right,” he said, trying to work that statement out in his head. Deceit was being kind, right? That’s what was happening? “That’s… right?”

“That’s right? You know what, you’re right, Roman. I could never insult you with the assumption that you need my help with something as simple as doing your job. I’ve always admired you so, after all, and your amazing ability to perform as Thomas’ Creativity with astounding capability.”

“Oh, I mean, I wouldn’t be upset if you—”

“No, I can’t,” Deceit said, turning his head to the side, seeming deeply troubled by something. “I can’t possibly interfere with your process, not when it’s led to such success in the past. Please forgive me for thinking of such an idea for even a moment, Roman.”

“What? No, I—”

“You’re right, you shouldn’t,” Deceit said, shaking his head, seemingly in disgust with himself. “How dare I insinuate that the outstanding Roman needs any help whatsoever. I should go. I’m terribly sorry, Roman.”

With that, he swept out of the kitchen, leaving Roman to blink in confusion and wonder what in the world had just happened.

“It’s okay,” Roman said to empty air, suddenly feeling very small.

…

Roman sort of gave up shopping for ideas after that. It’s not like Anxiety was going to be of any help, obviously, and Logan… he could do this himself. Deceit was right. He shouldn’t bother anyone else when he couldn’t successfully do his own job.

Giving up looking for them elsewhere did not get him any closer to coming up with an idea himself, though, and Roman was beginning to panic. The day Thomas had said he needed an idea from him was rapidly approaching, and Roman was coming up empty.

Today he and Thomas were going to meet up together to see how things were going, and Roman was… not looking forward to it, to put it lightly.

He had nothing. He had a blank notebook. This was ridiculous, he was so good at coming up with ideas, it used to be all he did, and now he was incapable of doing his job just because of a tiny bit of pressure?

…Except it wasn’t tiny at all. The fact that Thomas needed him to work at a speed and degree he never had before or they risked not being able to afford food or their apartment was immensely stressful.

But come on, it was an idea. Roman’s entire purpose was coming up with the damn things! He used to be able to do it in his sleep.

He dropped his head down on his desk, in the vague hope it would shake something loose in his brain and all his problems would disappear.

It wasn’t working.

When Thomas inevitably called him, Roman shoved the ball of nerves in his stomach as far down as it would go and rose up with a blindingly bright smile that had never felt this fake before.

“Thomas, what a lovely surprise!” he called.

“We were planning this meeting, Princey.”

“That we were! Unfortunately, I am going to have to reschedule. I was just in the middle of narrowing down my dozens and dozens of miraculous ideas when you called me, and I don’t have a single one to give you.”

“Hmm, well it seems like that’s an omen of doom on the horizon,” came a familiar irritating voice along with terrible eerie music.

“You should quit and go back to chemical engineering Thomas,” Anxiety said. “You didn’t have to worry about money then.”

“No one asked your opinion Spiderfreak Chronicles,” Roman snapped, ignoring his dread and his panic and the feeling that Anxiety was completely right.

“Seriously, Anxiety, not helpful,” Thomas groaned.

“It really isn’t,” Roman said, crossing his arms.

“Hey, I’m just pointing out facts,” Anxiety said, holding up his hands. “And those facts are that you’re doomed to fail and putting this much trust in Princey was always a terrible idea and you should keep working towards something that will actually help you instead of this foolish fantasy.”

“Ugh, you’re impossible,” Roman groaned, looking up at the ceiling. “I do not like you.”

He half hoped for Logan to rise up and be irritated that Anxiety was claiming to represent facts, when in reality he was saying things that weren’t true in the slightest, obviously, and Roman definitely had this whole thing handled.

But Logan didn’t appear, because of course he didn’t, and how dare Roman expect anything from him right now, honestly. What was wrong with him?

“I’m just trying to prepare you for the inevitability of your embarrassing failure,” Anxiety said with a shrug.

“That is not helping,” Roman snapped, because it really wasn’t.

“Okay, look, I really don’t have the energy for this right now,” Thomas grumbled. “Princey, just have an idea narrowed down by tomorrow, okay?”

Tomorrow?

“Of course Thomas!” Roman said brightly. “That won’t be a problem at all! I’ll go do that right now!”

Roman sank out to his room and immediately started pacing back and forth, shaking his hands out in panic.

Tomorrow? He had to have an idea ready to present to Thomas by tomorrow? How in the world was he supposed to do that?

He’d already tried looking for ideas elsewhere. He couldn’t admit to Thomas that he had nothing. What was he supposed to do? How in the world had Logan managed to do this?

Roman paused. Logan.

No, he couldn’t. He… Logan was…

Roman shook himself slightly. He turned to his mirror, checked his appearance, and fixed his hair.

Desperate times.

Roman sank out to the commons instead of sinking out straight into Logan’s room, because that was probably smarter. Hesitantly, he knocked on Logan’s door, three times because that’s what Logan preferred, and stood back slightly and waited.

Eventually, Logan opened it, and his gaze soured the second he noticed Roman. “What do you want,” he said, not really asking a question.

“I…” Roman said weakly. “I’m sorry. I need your help.”

Logan’s gaze soured even further. “Find another side.”

“I tried!” Roman said desperately. “Please, Logan, I’m sorry, I— I don’t know what I’m doing. I’ve never done this before. Thomas wants me to have an idea by tomorrow and I’m out of them, I— I can’t—”

“If you don’t know what you’re doing you shouldn’t have pushed for Thomas to make this switch in the first place,” Logan snapped. “You take my job and my pride out from under me and then come and beg me for help?”

“Thomas wanted this,” Roman said quietly, looking down. “It makes him so happy to make things he loves, Logan.”

“So I don’t make Thomas happy then?” Logan said, his own voice going quiet. “Is that what you’re saying?”

“No. Logan, I—” Roman squeezed his eyes shut. “I just don’t know how you did it. How did you pace yourself without burning out? Did you make a schedule, or is it different when you don’t have to do it all yourself? Could we maybe… could we maybe try working together on this?”

He looked hesitantly up towards Logan, only to immediately feel a sharp stab of panic at the rage in Logan’s eyes.

“You shove me to the sidelines,” Logan said lowly. “You make me unimportant and useless to Thomas. You insist on trying to handle everything yourself, and then you come and beg me for help? Are you trying to insult me?”

“Logan, you’re not unimportant, and you’ll never be useless. I thought— I thought you might want to keep working with Thomas on his job. I need help, and you want to help, shouldn’t— shouldn’t that solve the problem?”

“I don’t want to help,” Logan said, drawing himself upright. “With your pointless, terrible, unessential ideas. We were doing something important. And now we’re throwing it all away to make stupid jokes. How is anyone ever going to take us seriously ever again?”

“I—”

“And for the record,” Logan said, leaning closer and causing Roman to lean back. “I never needed help. If you’re really that poorly cut out for this, maybe you shouldn’t have suggested it in the first place. Figure it out, Roman. And leave me alone. You’ve done enough.”

Logan stepped back and shut the door before Roman could get another word in.

Roman stared at the door for a while, trying to calm any of the rushing thoughts in his head.

He was right. Logan was right. Roman couldn’t ask for his help now, he had already been selfish enough. He’d wanted this so badly, and he’d dug his own grave with not knowing what would come with it. He couldn’t ask for help from Logan. He shouldn’t need help from anyone. This was his job, he should be able to do it by himself.

Roman buried his head in his hands and took a shaky breath. Then he sank out to his room, walked over to his desk, and sat down in front of a blank piece of paper.

He was going to sit here until some workable idea fell out of his brain, no matter the quality. And then he was never going to allow himself to consider asking for help ever again.

…

“Huh,” Thomas said, looking up from the paper Roman had passed him. “That could work. It would definitely take pretty low effort to just set up and film in my living room. What do you want to call it?”

“I have no idea,” Roman said, rubbing the back of his neck. “Something about identity, maybe? You’re exploring yourself and us sides, right? Or, you know, the good ones, me and Logic and Morality. Anxiety can do something else.”

“So you really just want to make a video where you introduce yourself to my fans. Do you just want a more direct spotlight, Princey?” Thomas teased, giving him a smile.

“Of course not!” Roman said, holding a hand to his chest as if he was offended. “Why would I be giving Morality and Logic chances to talk too if that was the case?”

“Fair enough,” Thomas said with a small smile. “Well, I think that could work pretty well actually. Do you want to start working on the script tomorrow?”

Something inside Roman started screaming. “Of course!” he said, keeping his smile wide. “I will be back here tomorrow Thomas! I think this is going to go well!”

“I think so too, Princey,” Thomas said with a smile.

Well, at least that meant Roman hadn’t let any of his dread filter through. Now he just had to keep this up forever.

He’d be fine. This would be fine. He didn’t need help. He was Prince Roman, and he was Thomas’ Creativity, and he had this whole thing so handled.

Being in charge of Thomas’ living was a piece of cake.

#sanders sides #roman sanders #character thomas sanders #patton sanders #remus sanders #janus sanders #virgil sanders #logan sanders #roman sanders angst #oh look I'm hurting roman again what a surprise #tw manipulation #my fic

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naminethewriter · 2 years

Text

Hurt No One Knew About Chapter Four: Patton

Masterpost | First | Previous | Next | Ao3

Story Summary: Logan has been acting weird for the past few weeks and the others aren’t sure what to do about it. When Janus appears looking for Remus they strike a deal: He figures out what’s going on with Logan and afterwards they’ll help search for Remus.

Turns out the two problems are more connected to each other than anyone thought.

Content Warnings: Tyranny, Emotional Manipulation

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“What happened?”

“Is he okay?”

“He’s not moving!”

“What should we do?”

Patton wakes up surrounded by voices frantically talking over each other. For a moment he can’t remember how he got here but then he recalls the pyramid, the drawings on the wall and the floor giving away under him. After that came only darkness. When had he passed out?

It must’ve been the fall, right? But his body doesn’t hurt. It’s just a bit sore.

“He moves!”

“He lives!”

“Is he awake?”

He had let the voices blend into the background for a moment but as they see him move, they get louder. Slowly, Patton opens his eyes. Thankfully, it seems that his glasses have survived the fall. He is lying on his back, above him a stone ceiling from what he presumes is a cave. There is soft light coming from somewhere. Then he feels something move on his chest.

He must be groggier than he thought because the feeling doesn’t immediately send him reeling to try and get it off. Instead, he slowly lifts his head and looks down his body. There, standing on his stomach, is a brown teddy bear. It doesn’t wear clothes, but its fur is matted with dirt in a few places on its body.

It stares at Patton.

Patton stares back.

It cocks its head. Only now Patton notices that the voices have stopped.

“Um, hi?” he says, unsure of what else to do.

The teddy looks at him for a moment longer before it calls over his shoulder.

“He’s fine!”

Excited chatter immediately picks up as the teddy climbs off Patton. Soon after there are at least a dozen other bears gathered around him, looking relieved. They are all different sizes and colorations but each of their furs is mattered similarly to the first one. At least half of them ask him questions, but they all speak over each other, and he can’t understand a thing.

“Enough!” the first teddy calls. “You’re just overwhelming him, give him some room to breathe.”

The others fall silent, looking sheepish.

“That’s better,” the teddy huffs. “Now, son. Mind telling us your name and how you got here?”

Still incredibly confused by the entire situation, Patton answers without thinking.

“Patton. And I fell. I think.”

“You think?”

“Well, I was definitely falling. And then everything went black and I woke up here.” Only then does he remember the others and he looks around quickly. “I was with my friends. Three of them. Have you seen them?”

The teddies look to each other, shaking their heads at the questioning glances of others.

“No, son. You’re the only one in our part of these caves.”

“Oh.”

“But worry not. There is a tunnel leading further in where we don’t dare to travel. But you are bigger than us, I’m sure you will have no trouble going there. We can lead you.”

“Thank you –“ Patton breaks off, realizing he never got the bear’s name. It chuckles.

“How rude of me. My name is Fuzzy, he/him. And this is my family.” He motions to the other bears gathered around them and they all wave to Patton. He waves back.

“Nice to meet you all.”

A chorus of responses sounds back but they don’t introduce themselves individually. Fuzzy seems to be the leader and spokesman for them. Nobody else seems keen on approaching Patton personally. Except for a tug on his right sleeve. He looks over and there is a small teddy looking up at him with the biggest, most adorable eyes he has ever seen. Its fur is a lighter brown and not as mattered as the others seem to be. Next to its ears are little pink bows.

“Oh, hello there,” Patton coos. “Who are you?”

“Oh, that’s Kitty. She’s one of our youngest,” Fuzzy explains. He comes over and pats Kitty on the head. It doesn’t deter her from staring up at Patton. Fuzzy laughs. “Seems like she likes you, son. She usually keeps to herself.”

Patton can’t help himself; he is already smitten with her. He looks at Fuzzy.

“Can I pick her up?”

“Ask her. She’s old enough.”

Patton meets her eyes again.

“Would you mind if I picked you up?” She shakes her head and so Patton pulls her into his arms. She snuggles into him as he pets her head and actually starts purring. Patton looks back to Fuzzy with tears in his eyes.

“I love her.”

Fuzzy laughs again.

“How could you not? She’s the cutest little fluff ball in our family. We all adore her.”

Patton just nods, captivated by how content she seems in his arms.

“You can keep holding her, son, but we should get going. We can’t waste much more time.”

“Oh, alright.” Patton stands up, a little confused by the sudden urgency. He’s careful with Kitty still against his chest, purring up a storm. Now standing, he notices that the teddy bears barely reach past his shin.

In the meantime, Fuzzy addresses his fellow teddies: “Most of you should get back to work. We don’t want him to get suspicious.” They nod and all but three run off.

“Who could get suspicious of what?” Patton asks, confused.

“Lord Derrik,” Fuzzy answers, darkly, as he leads the group forwards, through the tunnels that Patton now notices are lit up with torches. “He’s a tyrant and makes us bring him precious stones for his collection. If we don’t, he won’t give us the stuffing we need to survive. And he’s getting greedier and greedier as time goes on. He gives us less for each gem we bring, claiming it’s not enough, but we can’t find more, the tunnels are almost barren! Without the stuffing we can’t repair ourselves. Our fur is already so mattered from all the dirt we search through to find more stones and every day there are more of us who can’t move as well anymore. If nothing changes soon, we will all perish.”

Patton listens to his story with a heavy heart. In his arms, Kitty hides her face deeper in his chest, having stopped purring when Fuzzy named their tormentor. Patton squeezes her tighter to reassure her.

“And there is no way you can get stuffing yourself?”

Fuzzy shakes his head.

“It grows on the ceiling of these caves. We cannot reach it. We’ve tried many things but to no avail.”

“You can’t look elsewhere? Further into the caves perhaps?”

“We don’t dare. There are creatures out there that would rip us apart in an instant. We don’t know why they don’t come here but the risk of going out to find another place to stay is too high.”

“But-“

Fuzzy holds up an arm, stopping everyone in their tracks. He remains still for a moment, listening for something. His expression turns sour, and he turns to Patton.

“The Lord is close by. Keep quiet and don’t let him see you.”

Patton nods and they move forward, slower than before. The tunnel they’re moving through continues for a while but there is an opening to a larger cave a bit ahead to their left. Fuzzy motions again to keep quiet as they approach. The Lord must be in there.

Fuzzy and Patton carefully peak around the corner while the other teddies stay behind them. More torches light the room, and reflecting their light are many gems, gathered in piles all around the room. A few thousands of them if Patton had to guess. Walking between the piles, with a crown on his head, is a creature that he can only assume is Lord Derrik.

And he’s no teddy bear.

He is a bear. But not one filled with cotton. A live, actual brown bear. Small for one though. Patton would guess that the Lord is shorter than him by a few inches.

“More!” the bear growls. From somewhere Patton can’t see, come two teddies. They seem to be in worse condition than the others Patton has seen so far, dirty and shaggy. The arm of one of them hangs limp and he recalls that Fuzzy mentioned that they are losing mobility without new stuffing.

The teddies present Lord Derrik with a few more gems and he huffs are he grabs them.

“Took you long enough.” He inspects the stones with narrowed eyes before placing them in a nearby pile. “Decent enough.” Then he reaches up and only then does Patton notice the white fuzz on the low ceiling of this cave. Derrik uses a claw to gather some of it up and then hands it off to the two teddies who look at it worriedly.

“What?!” the Lord barks at them. “Not enough for your greedy little paws? Huh?”

Immediately the two shrink into themselves and shake their heads.

“Ungrateful little things! I provide for you and ask only for so little! You should be grateful! Now get out of my sight!”

They scramble away and Lord Derrik looks after them with annoyance. Fuzzy choses that moment to lead them past the entry way further down the tunnel. They continue in silence after that. Patton thinks about what he just witnessed and looks down at Kitty who quivers in his arms. He pets her head and whispers reassurances to her.

“Here we are,” Fuzzy says eventually as he comes to a stop. He motions to a door; the first one Patton has seen down here. “We don’t really know what’s behind there, but it’s pretty much the only way out of here you would fit through.”

“Thank you so much for bringing me here. And I’m sorry about your situation, I wish I could help somehow.”

“That’s very kind of you, son.”

“He can, can’t he?” One of the other three teddy bears following them speaks up for the first time.

“Yeah, he’s big, he should be able to get rid of Derrik, right?” A second says, eyeing Patton.

Patton stares at them, wide-eyed. That’s not what he had meant! He looks to Fuzzy who seems to be actually considering the idea.

“Hold on a moment! I can’t fight a bear! And even if I could, wouldn’t that just cut you off from your stuffing?”

“I don’t mind dying, if it meant getting rid of him,” the first teddy says and the other two nod their heads in agreement.

“It’s true. I would give my life if it meant seeing that bastard bite the dust,” Fuzzy agrees and Patton is overwhelmed by the sudden turn this conversation has taken.

“I can’t just leave you here to die!” he exclaims. He’s shaking now.

The teddies watch him for a moment before Fuzzy speaks up again.

“Then you become our Lord instead. You’re tall enough to reach the stuffing.”

“Yeah!”

“Good idea.”

“I’d like that.”

The others agree with him, and Patton feels immense pressure on him.

“I can’t,” he protests. “I have to find my friends. Why don’t you come with me? I’m sure they can help us find a solution.”

“You want us to follow you to certain death?” Fuzzy asks, glaring at him. Patton takes a step back.

“That’s… That’s not what I meant! I can protect you.” He can hear how weak he sounds. All four of the teddy bears stare at him with an intensity that makes his skin crawl.

“You can’t protect all of us by yourself. A few of us would die for sure. Are you willing to take responsibility for that?” Fuzzy huffs and Patton shrinks in on himself.

“But I really can’t stay…”

“You said you wanted to help and now that we ask you to help us, you turn us away?!”

“How cruel!”

“Hypocrite!”

“Liar!”

Patton takes another few steps away as they yell at him, and he bumps into the door that would lead him out of here. He considers just making a run for it when something tucks at his sleeve.

He looks down to see Kitty, still in his arms, looking up at him with her big eyes. He couldn’t look away even as he felt like she was staring into his soul.

“You’re not going to abandon us. Are you, Patton?”

#namiswriting #Hurt No One Knew About #Chapter 4: Patton #ts patton #patton sanders #tyranny #emotional manipulation #multichapter fic #sanders sides #fanfiction #reblogs are appreciated

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snowdice · 2 years

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Mental Toughness (Part 1/2) [Relabeled; Refiled Series]

Fandom: Sanders Sides

Relationships: Logan/Patton

Characters: Logan, Patton, Janus

Summary:

Patton goes missing. Logan finds him, but that presents its own issues.

Notes: Past child abuse/neglect, Past mental manipulation

This is part of the Labeled Universe dealing with events set before my story Sometimes Labels Fail. It is set a good few years after Gaps in His Files a couple of years into Patton and Logan’s marriage.

Logan’s office phone was already ringing when he unlocked his office door. It was the end of the day, and he’s just finished teaching his last class. He’d planned to work for about another hour in his office before picking up Patton from his shift at the hospital and going home together.

He was unsure who would be calling him at this time of day. It wasn’t an office hour, in fact, often times he wouldn’t even be in his office right now. Even if it was a time he was typically in his office, very few people had a reason to call his office phone anyway. Most students simply came to his office hour; colleagues would usually just wait until they saw him next if they needed anything or would come and find him themselves.

Still, receiving a phone call wasn’t completely unheard of, so he set his bag down on a chair near the door and walked over to answer the call.

“Professor Sanders speaking,” he said into the receiver.

“Logan!” the person on the other end of the line said. The way Logan’s name was exclaimed implied that they were currently stressed.

“Remy?” Logan asked, recognizing the voice, but unsure why he would be calling Logan’s office phone.

“Hey, hi, fuck, you really need to get a pager or something,” Remy mumbled. Logan opened his mouth to respond, but Remy cut him off. “That’s not important right now. Have you seen Patton?”

That question made Logan pay attention. Remy should have been the one to have seen Patton most recently out of the two of them.

“I haven’t seen him since I dropped him off at work this morning, why?”

“Uh, so,” Remy said. “He went out for a late lunch since there was some drama here, and, uh, he never came back after that.”

“What?”

“Yeah, and he’s not one to skip even when he probably should. I was hoping you might know where he was or you’d be more… equipped to find him.

Patton was missing? Logan could feel his stomach flip as panic and worry set in at the thought. Rational thought completely left him in that moment; something else took its place.

Something he couldn’t put a name to rose up inside of him, some instinct that he’d had no idea he had. He found himself activating his powers, but not in any way he had before or any way he could understand at the time. There was some confused fumbling in his head that felt like he was trying to find a light switch in an unfamiliar darkened room. Then, his powers put a finger on the metaphorical switch and… something lit up.

He suddenly knew exactly where Patton was, and he didn’t bother to question that fact, at least not for now. He hung up the phone without another word and used his powers in a much more routine way to pull his Bluebird suit to him from the hidden compartment in his briefcase.

He was halfway across the city and breaking into a building before even a hint of rational thought returned to him. He briefly considered the fact that Bluebird was not known for breaking and entering, but at that point, he’d already broken a window. At least the house looked like it might be abandoned anyway. Logan shrugged it off and slipped through the broken window.

Two people were staring at him when he came to stand inside the building. One was Patton and one was…

“Deceit,” he said to the vigilante.

“Bluebird.”

Logan took half a second to process, his mind coming mostly back online at the sight of Patton seemingly unharmed. This was a relatively good outcome compared to what could have been behind his disappearance. Deceit, while a vigilante with a little more blood on his hands than Logan could approve of, wasn’t the type to harm civilians. He was even on the least murderous side of being a vigilante when it came to criminals and supervillains, though he did on occasion exact justice in that way. Patton was never going to be harmed by him. He hadn’t been harmed by him clearly. At least, he was not harmed physically.

However, Logan still felt anger sparking in his chest on Patton’s behalf. Deceit had almost certainly used his powers to get Patton here, though it didn’t look like he was currently under the effects of those. There were medical supplies strewn about which was obviously why Deceit had taken him and he’d likely wanted Patton to have a clear head for that. With most people, Deceit’s powers were not particularly distressing unless he wanted them to be, however, Patton had many, many bad experiences with mental powers at the hands of his family growing up. Logan didn’t even know of all of said experiences. He’d told Logan the ones he could handle speaking about, and the rest were filtering in slowly over the years as he put distance between him and his childhood and worked through past memories with a psychiatrist. The fact that Deceit had used mental powers on Patton filled Logan with rage.

“You kidnaped a doctor,” Logan said, trying and failing to sound calm like Bluebird was supposed to be.

Deceit just shrugged, not noticing the danger. “I do that sometimes.”

“And do you ever think of the possible unintentional consequences of your own actions?” Logan snapped. Deceit appeared taken aback by the question.

“I’m fine,” Patton cut in before either of them could say anything more that would escalate the situation. “No harm done. It’s fine.”

“It isn’t fine,” Logan said.

“What climbed up your ass today?” Deceit drawled.

“Thank you for coming to make sure I was okay, Bluebird,” Patton said before Logan could snap at the vigilante again, “but it was only Deceit and clearly, I’m okay.”

Logan took a few seconds to breathe. “I’ll escort you back to your hospital, Dr. Sanders.”

“Thank you,” Patton said with a professional looking smile. He turned back to Deceit. “Make sure to change the bandages at least once a day until you’re fully healed and take the antibiotics I mentioned.”

“I know how to care for a wound, thank you, doctor.” Deceit said.

“You’re welcome,” Patton said cheerily. Then, he turned to walk over to Logan. It took a lot of effort for Logan not to just grab him immediately. That is not what he’d do with a normal citizen.

Instead, he said, “May I fly you back to your workplace?”

“Yes,” Patton said. “Thank you, Bluebird.”

Logan snatched him up then and flew off with him without another word to the vigilante.

Want to read more? Click below!

Labeled Master Post.

My Masterpost.

#sanders sides #logan sanders #patton sanders #logicality #janus sanders #(briefly)#labeled universe #relabeled; refiled #adriana writes #not pieces fic #past child abuse #past child neglect #past mental manipulation

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transfemlogan · 10 months

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i read your rants from last night and it’s got me thinking of that Character Desert effect I used to think of SaSi as. And how shit like demonizing a character comes because of its small cast. And honestly, it’s not even that the cast is small. 7 main characters (9 if you throw in Picani and Remy/Sleep, 8 if you take out Thomas as most do) is a decent selection! The issue is less that and more jist. The ratio of protagonists to antagonists. Because that’s a whopping 7:0 since the antagonist of SaSi is Social Situations Gone Wrong. There’s also the fact there’s only really three side characters (Lee, Mary Lee, and Nico. Once again you can fluff it up a bit if you add Cartoon Therapy but the fact people fluff it with CT is kind of a sign of the “problem”) and all of those side characters also kind of suffer from the same issue Thomas does which leads to him being omitted, they’re all full people. They’re not facets like the Sides, there’s no side characters that exist on the same plane as the Sides (why do CT characters not get this treatment? Probably because they’re pulled out in AUs where the sides are no longer facets. Why does Thomas not get the same treatment? I Don’t Know.) and there never will be because if anyone is existing on their plane that ratio turns into 8:0. ANYWAY I feel like I’ve gotten off track so Uh. Here’s the my hypothesis. Demonizing of characters seems happen because there’s no one good to demonize. There’s no villain or shitty side character (or even a NEUTRAL side character). When people want to create a work with a shitty character doing shitty things, they’ve got limited options. Either throw a name down and say That’s Them or demonize/antagonize a character. And then tk take it one step further, when choosing which character to demonize/antagonize theres a couple routes it can go. You choose based on which character is this antagonist is supposed to be shitty to (ex. When giving Virgil a bitch of an ex boyfriend, most would be inclined to pick Janus or Remus because of the whole Dark Sides connection in canon), you pick based on the type of shitty actions the shitty character is doing (ex. You want a judgmental jock bully? Roman can fit!), or you just. Plain pick who you don’t fucking like. (ex. Unsympth vs Sympth Deceit may that discourse rest in fucking hell I hated both sides) And just to. Cherry on top it. All of that demonizing and antagonizing will slowly bleed into people’s canon thoughts, because in this fandom fanon reigns supreme (and I personally think that’s not Inherently the fandom’s fault, the long ass hiatuses and inconsistent characterization in canon lends itself well to it) So sorry if this made. No sense. I woke up and scrolled my dash for a bit and then spent an hour rambling in your ask box so. Sorry.

NO UR 100% RIGHT. its a big mixture of like. a Million Things.

being able to infantalise anxiety but not infantalise lying or intrusive thoughts. needing an antagonist because otherwise the story is much Deeper than it started out 2 be / thought 2 be. assuming mistakes = being evil. A small cast. Fanon VS canon. the poor writing & choices made throughout sasi. the target audience being children but the story has complex ideas. long stretches of time inbetween episodes.

#also like.#people being unable to understand Nuance when it comes to actions. like #“how can a character be neither Good or Bad when their actions are confusing?”#logan isnt Bad or Evil or a Villain. but hes mean to Patton. and that's bad isnt it?#janus isnt Bad or Evil or a Villain. but he's mean to Virgil and manipulates Roman . and Those are bad actions arent they?#Patton isnt Bad or Evil or a Villain. but he infantalises virgil & treats roman & remus w/ disrespect. and thats Bad!#rhetorical questions but like #not connecting that sometimes the reasons behind “bad” actions arent Bad. its not always Black & White.#IM JUST rambling but whwatever #ask

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quietrainfan · 2 years

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Artificial Heart!Patton being solo is all well and good. Just a creepy little guy with a fake heart of unknown origins. We love Patton being the only villain in this Unsympathetic Patton house.

Buuuut....Logan being the one who made him the artificial heart when they were younger has a lot of potential. I think it's no secret that Logan is the family's little scientist. So when he first met Patton, he wasn't....comfortable to say the least. He had to have something to control whatever this thing was. And if creating something for him happened to help Patton with whatever chaotic plans he has, then so be it.

So long as he's easier to handle. Logan enjoys experimenting anyway so the invention of the artificial heart was challenging and very, very rewarding. Cold Scientist Logan who couldn't care less about Patton's existence and literally creating something that'll make him less of nuisance- even slightly- just cause with a Chaotic Evil Jolly Patton who has fake emotions that pops into Logan's lab to give him "affection" and ask for favors occasionally. It's glorious.

So imagine the aftermath of Patton obtaining the Orange Side's nectar and rushing into Logan's lab.

"Logan!~ I have a brilliant new idea!", He tackles him from behind mid-experiment, nearly knocking a very delicate chemical out of his hand, "But I need to borrow your big meaty brain real quick to pull it off!"

Logan is not pleased by his presence but remains apathetic nonetheless. He simply asks what he needs so he can go back to work.

Patton giggles mischievously, "Oh, you'll love it! Trust me!"

He pulls out the container holding the Orange Side's nectar.

"See this?~ It's a little something I picked up in that...forbidden palace.", He cooed with a grimace, "This sweet tasting stuff is apparently our little guy's repressed vices. Turns out it's real dangerous to consume or use if you don't do it correctly, hmm? ....Got a clue what I'm hinting at?~"

"....You tasted it?"

Patton pouted, "Don't make that scary face. My curiosity has good intentions."

"Yeah, sure it does. Get to the point."

"Kay, kay! Mr. Impatience!~", Patton slung his arm around Logan's shoulder, "I was wondering...is it possible for you to replicate that cute little trinket you gifted me all those years ago? I think having some I can implant in the others might give me a bit more of an edge....and ofcourse, you a bit more entertainment.~"

"So, let me get this straight...you want to fill replicas of your heart- which I'm not even certain I can create- with that liquid you stole from the Dark Sides so you can use it to control discourse between the others? And you want me to somehow insert these replicas in them without them knowing?"

Patton nodded, "Uh-huh.~"

....................

"Alright.", Logan took the container out of Patton's hand, "It sounds challenging. Absurdly so."

"Yay! You're the best, Lo!"

"Those 'hearts' you requested may have to be smaller than average.", Logan pondered, disregarding his praise, already starting the blueprints, "Considering your....imaginative requirements for this to work, I don't think implanting these will be a small order. I'll have to adjust some things. While also starting from scratch. .....So thanks for that."

"Oh, stop pretending you don't love this!", Patton pranced out of his lab, "I'll leave you to it!"

Yeah....so many scenarios can come of this. The possibilities are endless.

@pattonapologist

#unsympathetic patton #evil patton #artificial heart patton #unsympathetic logan #blue calamity #blue calamity twins #tw manipulation #tw human experimentation #platonic sanders sides #familial sanders sides #sympathetic dark sides #we 👏 need 👏 more 👏 blue 👏 calamity!#blue calamity my beloved #morally ambiguous logan #orange side #orange side mention

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remus-thecreative · 2 years

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lol we hope patton expresses more and more negative emotions! let him be fucking angry, passionate, etc OPENLY. he hasnt just been repressing himself all the other sides (besides remus maybe) and so many fans have intentionally and unintentionally been repressing/disapproving of anything thats not Happy Pappy Patton or Sad But Still Harmless Patton. his past passive aggression was literally bc he felt like he couldnt be anything remotely "evil" fuck he turned into a giant frog monster due to that and yet!!! the second he voices his opinion in a way thats not kissing ASS. fans call him a master manipulator.

#im up too late so now im vehemently defending my ex husbands introject source #Mr Feelings didnt canonically state hes the center of all of cThomas feelings #for ppl to be hypocritical assholes #also i take so much offense. as a deceit fictive. MY SOURCE IS THE LITERAL LIAR DECEPTICON MANIPULATIVE SNAKE #🍏 deceit #i may delete this but. im pissed lmao!!!#i really dont need to see evil patton conspiracy shit when searching for new episode stuff #just say you dont like complex characters and go #i actually like that hes clearly giving roman and virgil space while still being himself #if he gets pushed into apologizing for simply speaking or god forbid existing i. might lose it in a very bad way. no one deserves that #vent #anyways blows kisses to Frog. pls dont read this too many times and DONT go looking for patton negativity darling 💛

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plume-pigmented-pili · 2 years

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i need Janus and Patton bonding over their shared crushing, gut wrenching, world shattering guilt over the things they’ve done to hurt their friends and break their families apart :))

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fatliberation · 6 months

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they have a point though. you wouldn't need everyone to accommodate you if you just lost weight, but you're too lazy to stick to a healthy diet and exercise. it's that simple. I'd like to see you back up your claims, but you have no proof. you have got to stop lying to yourselves and face the facts

Must I go through this again? Fine. FINE. You guys are working my nerves today. You want to talk about facing the facts? Let's face the fucking facts.

In 2022, the US market cap of the weight loss industry was $75 billion [1, 3]. In 2021, the global market cap of the weight loss industry was estimated at $224.27 billion [2].

In 2020, the market shrunk by about 25%, but rebounded and then some since then [1, 3] By 2030, the global weight loss industry is expected to be valued at $405.4 billion [2]. If diets really worked, this industry would fall overnight.

1. LaRosa, J. March 10, 2022. "U.S. Weight Loss Market Shrinks by 25% in 2020 with Pandemic, but Rebounds in 2021." Market Research Blog. 2. Staff. February 09, 2023. "[Latest] Global Weight Loss and Weight Management Market Size/Share Worth." Facts and Factors Research. 3. LaRosa, J. March 27, 2023. "U.S. Weight Loss Market Partially Recovers from the Pandemic." Market Research Blog.

Over 50 years of research conclusively demonstrates that virtually everyone who intentionally loses weight by manipulating their eating and exercise habits will regain the weight they lost within 3-5 years. And 75% will actually regain more weight than they lost [4].

4. Mann, T., Tomiyama, A.J., Westling, E., Lew, A.M., Samuels, B., Chatman, J. (2007). "Medicare’s Search For Effective Obesity Treatments: Diets Are Not The Answer." The American Psychologist, 62, 220-233. U.S. National Library of Medicine, Apr. 2007.

The annual odds of a fat person attaining a so-called “normal” weight and maintaining that for 5 years is approximately 1 in 1000 [5].

5. Fildes, A., Charlton, J., Rudisill, C., Littlejohns, P., Prevost, A.T., & Gulliford, M.C. (2015). “Probability of an Obese Person Attaining Normal Body Weight: Cohort Study Using Electronic Health Records.” American Journal of Public Health, July 16, 2015: e1–e6.

Doctors became so desperate that they resorted to amputating parts of the digestive tract (bariatric surgery) in the hopes that it might finally result in long-term weight-loss. Except that doesn’t work either. [6] And it turns out it causes death [7], addiction [8], malnutrition [9], and suicide [7].

6. Magro, Daniéla Oliviera, et al. “Long-Term Weight Regain after Gastric Bypass: A 5-Year Prospective Study - Obesity Surgery.” SpringerLink, 8 Apr. 2008. 7. Omalu, Bennet I, et al. “Death Rates and Causes of Death After Bariatric Surgery for Pennsylvania Residents, 1995 to 2004.” Jama Network, 1 Oct. 2007. 8. King, Wendy C., et al. “Prevalence of Alcohol Use Disorders Before and After Bariatric Surgery.” Jama Network, 20 June 2012. 9. Gletsu-Miller, Nana, and Breanne N. Wright. “Mineral Malnutrition Following Bariatric Surgery.” Advances In Nutrition: An International Review Journal, Sept. 2013.

Evidence suggests that repeatedly losing and gaining weight is linked to cardiovascular disease, stroke, diabetes and altered immune function [10].

10. Tomiyama, A Janet, et al. “Long‐term Effects of Dieting: Is Weight Loss Related to Health?” Social and Personality Psychology Compass, 6 July 2017.

Prescribed weight loss is the leading predictor of eating disorders [11].

11. Patton, GC, et al. “Onset of Adolescent Eating Disorders: Population Based Cohort Study over 3 Years.” BMJ (Clinical Research Ed.), 20 Mar. 1999.

The idea that “obesity” is unhealthy and can cause or exacerbate illnesses is a biased misrepresentation of the scientific literature that is informed more by bigotry than credible science [12].

12. Medvedyuk, Stella, et al. “Ideology, Obesity and the Social Determinants of Health: A Critical Analysis of the Obesity and Health Relationship” Taylor & Francis Online, 7 June 2017.

“Obesity” has no proven causative role in the onset of any chronic condition [13, 14] and its appearance may be a protective response to the onset of numerous chronic conditions generated from currently unknown causes [15, 16, 17, 18].

13. Kahn, BB, and JS Flier. “Obesity and Insulin Resistance.” The Journal of Clinical Investigation, Aug. 2000. 14. Cofield, Stacey S, et al. “Use of Causal Language in Observational Studies of Obesity and Nutrition.” Obesity Facts, 3 Dec. 2010. 15. Lavie, Carl J, et al. “Obesity and Cardiovascular Disease: Risk Factor, Paradox, and Impact of Weight Loss.” Journal of the American College of Cardiology, 26 May 2009. 16. Uretsky, Seth, et al. “Obesity Paradox in Patients with Hypertension and Coronary Artery Disease.” The American Journal of Medicine, Oct. 2007. 17. Mullen, John T, et al. “The Obesity Paradox: Body Mass Index and Outcomes in Patients Undergoing Nonbariatric General Surgery.” Annals of Surgery, July 2005. 18. Tseng, Chin-Hsiao. “Obesity Paradox: Differential Effects on Cancer and Noncancer Mortality in Patients with Type 2 Diabetes Mellitus.” Atherosclerosis, Jan. 2013.

Fatness was associated with only 1/3 the associated deaths that previous research estimated and being “overweight” conferred no increased risk at all, and may even be a protective factor against all-causes mortality relative to lower weight categories [19].

19. Flegal, Katherine M. “The Obesity Wars and the Education of a Researcher: A Personal Account.” Progress in Cardiovascular Diseases, 15 June 2021.

Studies have observed that about 30% of so-called “normal weight” people are “unhealthy” whereas about 50% of so-called “overweight” people are “healthy”. Thus, using the BMI as an indicator of health results in the misclassification of some 75 million people in the United States alone [20].

20. Rey-López, JP, et al. “The Prevalence of Metabolically Healthy Obesity: A Systematic Review and Critical Evaluation of the Definitions Used.” Obesity Reviews : An Official Journal of the International Association for the Study of Obesity, 15 Oct. 2014.

While epidemiologists use BMI to calculate national obesity rates (nearly 35% for adults and 18% for kids), the distinctions can be arbitrary. In 1998, the National Institutes of Health lowered the overweight threshold from 27.8 to 25—branding roughly 29 million Americans as fat overnight—to match international guidelines. But critics noted that those guidelines were drafted in part by the International Obesity Task Force, whose two principal funders were companies making weight loss drugs [21].

21. Butler, Kiera. “Why BMI Is a Big Fat Scam.” Mother Jones, 25 Aug. 2014.

Body size is largely determined by genetics [22].

22. Wardle, J. Carnell, C. Haworth, R. Plomin. “Evidence for a strong genetic influence on childhood adiposity despite the force of the obesogenic environment” American Journal of Clinical Nutrition Vol. 87, No. 2, Pages 398-404, February 2008.

Healthy lifestyle habits are associated with a significant decrease in mortality regardless of baseline body mass index [23].

23. Matheson, Eric M, et al. “Healthy Lifestyle Habits and Mortality in Overweight and Obese Individuals.” Journal of the American Board of Family Medicine : JABFM, U.S. National Library of Medicine, 25 Feb. 2012.

Weight stigma itself is deadly. Research shows that weight-based discrimination increases risk of death by 60% [24].

24. Sutin, Angela R., et al. “Weight Discrimination and Risk of Mortality .” Association for Psychological Science, 25 Sept. 2015.

Fat stigma in the medical establishment [25] and society at large arguably [26] kills more fat people than fat does [27, 28, 29].

25. Puhl, Rebecca, and Kelly D. Bronwell. “Bias, Discrimination, and Obesity.” Obesity Research, 6 Sept. 2012. 26. Engber, Daniel. “Glutton Intolerance: What If a War on Obesity Only Makes the Problem Worse?” Slate, 5 Oct. 2009. 27. Teachman, B. A., Gapinski, K. D., Brownell, K. D., Rawlins, M., & Jeyaram, S. (2003). Demonstrations of implicit anti-fat bias: The impact of providing causal information and evoking empathy. Health Psychology, 22(1), 68–78. 28. Chastain, Ragen. “So My Doctor Tried to Kill Me.” Dances With Fat, 15 Dec. 2009. 29. Sutin, Angelina R, Yannick Stephan, and Antonio Terraciano. “Weight Discrimination and Risk of Mortality.” Psychological Science, 26 Nov. 2015.

There's my "proof." Where is yours?

#inbox #fat liberation #fat acceptance #fat activism #anti fatness #anti fat bias #anti diet #resources #facts #weight science #save

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