Why Certain Male Superheroes Have Such A Strong Female Fanbase
I discussed this on another post, but I think the trend of certain male superheroes having huge female fanbases has its roots in how relatable their characterization and struggles are. Despite being male characters, they are very strongly female-coded. I’ll use four examples, two Marvel (specifically their MCU portrayals) and two DC: Tony Stark, Bucky Barnes, Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson.
I apologize in advance if you click the Read More, this will be a very long post.
Tony Stark gets a lot of shit from the fandom, especially after Civil War. Yet, he remains arguably the most popular character from the entire series and adored by female fans. I think there’s a very good reason for that - he takes on a very female-coded role in relation to everyone else he interacts with.
For starters, he’s constantly slut-shamed. Steve, in particular, takes his sexual habits as a measure of his reliability and ability to be serious/commit. He alludes to knowing Tony from news coverage in A1, and we know from JARVIS’ quip in IM2 that Tony’s sexual escapades are highly covered by media. He looks down on Tony for his displays of sexuality (and more importantly, how shameless he is about them). Mia in IM3 also takes her digs at him about this.
His intelligence is constantly underestimated. Tony is incredibly smart and knows what he’s doing. In every Avengers movie, he is the one who formulates and carries out the plans that save the day. He is the plot device through which everything gets resolved, yet no one actually gives that any weight. In A1, Hill needles him about Selvig’s notes. In AoU, no one listens to him when he tries to explain that he was not responsible for Ultron gaining sentience or turning evil. In Civil War, Steve doesn’t listen to him when he tries to explain his decision to agree to the Sokovia Accords. Don Cheadle’s Rhodey never has any faith in Tony’s actions and constantly treats him like a child in need of supervision.
His emotions are continually disregarded. A major plot point in IM2 is Tony’s Reactor poisoning him. He exhibits all the signs of a suicidal person (even though he’s not) - giving his possessions away, retreating from public and personal life, making rash and/or unsafe decisions, emotional instability - but neither Pepper nor Rhodey even notice. In Civil War, when he tries to relay the human cost of the Sokovia disaster to the team (when we were shown how much that affected him), they dismiss his emotional outreach as manipulative. Steve disregards his friendship at every turn (indeed, being actively hostile to him through almost all of AoU) and doesn’t trust him at all (not telling him that Bucky was programmed). He also doesn’t consider that Tony may have feelings about finding out that his parents were murdered and seems surprised that Tony would be distraught. He never apologizes for hiding such important information, or even admits he shouldn’t have. When Tony returns from space in A:IW, he’s dismissive of Tony’s anger. Right until the end of A:E, Tony has to ask if Steve trusts him to make the right decision and Tony isn’t certain the answer will be yes. Natasha also treats him like he’s unrelentingly selfish, despite having been close enough to him to be wearing his clothes (in CA:WS, she’s wearing the same sweater Tony was wearing in IM2 when the only other person she does this to is Clint, with whom she is incredibly close).
Another major theme is the continued violation of his bodily autonomy. IM1 establishes that Tony’s autonomy is represented by his Reactor and armour, and that his use of both are a means to regain control over his autonomy. Obadiah continually enters Tony’s personal space without invitation or reciprocation, going so far as to undress him without permission to look at the Reactor and this comes to a head with the theft of his Reactor. Pepper gets upset with Tony about his suits in IM3, even hinging the continuation of their relationship on him getting rid of them without addressing why he’s so reliant on them. Steve in CW, once he has Tony on the ground, goes right for the Reactor (not to mention that Tony raises his arms like he anticipated that Steve was going to behead him). Then Steve leaves him there.
I think Tony appeals to so many female fans because it’s so easy to see the way we are ignored, overridden, used and discarded in him. He never seems to be good enough for the ones that he loves. He also knows he can’t turn to any of his closest people for comfort and doesn’t bother to try. He’s been taught by experience that if he’s disruptive or not useful, he’s not welcome. It’s incredibly difficult for him to accept kindness, but very easy to shoulder blame and responsibility. He’s easily hurt, but so good at concealing it no one notices. No one takes him seriously in anything he does, even when he’s proven it with actions. He’s always fighting against preconceived notions of him that aren’t him.
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Despite being a physically imposing character with a deadly skill-set and high body-count, Bucky is characterized almost exclusively as a caregiver or a victim.
In CA:TFA, he’s got a severe case of “Eldest Daughter Syndrome”, concerned above all with making sure that Steve is taken care of and kept from harm. Bucky consistently cleans up after Steve, both by running off the people he fights and ensuring that Steve’s living situation is assured. As the team sniper, he’s always watching Steve’s back and making sure he doesn’t get hurt. Steve loves Bucky, but he doesn’t ever take care of him. In CW and afterward, Bucky’s still more concerned for Steve than himself. He would have resigned himself to whatever punishment INTERPOL would have give him, and it’s not until Steve is threatened in their fight with Tony that he actually gets involved. Even in FATWS, he helps Sam not only with the terrorists, but with the boat and he reaches out to the Wakandans to replace the Falcon suit that got destroyed. He helps Sam train with the shield, even mentioning that he was the one who helped Steve get a handle on how to use it.
His victimization also starts near-immediately, with him being the sole survivor of Zola’s experiments in CA:TFA. He’s victimized and abusively controlled through his entire time as the Winter Soldier. Like Tony, his autonomy is also materially symbolized by his arm, which is used against him by Natasha in CA:WS and Ayo in FATWS. Perhaps most upsettingly relatable, he’s held accountable for the actions of the Winter Soldier in FATWS as exemplified by the therapist, who victim-blames him and seems more concerned with checking off a box for the government than actually helping him recover in any meaningful way. Zemo capitalizes on this spectacularly in FATWS.
I think a lot of women can relate to the kind of exhausted resignation of Bucky. He’s so rarely in control of anything that happens to him, but he still tries to be useful and kind when he can. He’s scared and hurt and alone, abandoned by the only person he knew in a world completely alien and hostile to him. His body language screams for someone to take care of him, but he’d die before asking for it. He tries so desperately not to be a burden, but always feels like one. He’ll put the needs of those he cares for above himself without exception, even when it causes him a lot of distress. His body and skills don’t feel like they belong to him, and he feels like it’s only a matter of time before someone steals them away again.
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Bruce Wayne as Batman might seem like an odd example, and there are certainly iterations of him that won’t fit this characterization. However, there’s a lot about him that is highly relatable to the feminine experience.
For starters, he’s guilt-ridden as shit. Bruce always takes it hard and personal when something goes wrong, even when he’s not responsible for it. This is most obvious in relation to his parents or Jason Todd, where he blames himself for something he didn’t do and couldn’t control. While every failure he has is met with a practical reassessment of his tactics, he also looks inward, trying to find what it is about him personally that makes these things happen and/or why he isn’t enough to stop it. He has a tendency to just accept blame instead of pushing back (ei. whenever Jason throws his death in his face).
He’s been raped. However much it may be payed down, Talia drugged and had non-consensual sex with him to conceive Damian.
His main motivation isn’t revenge, it’s prevention. While he’s not above revenge, the purpose behind Batman is to ensure that tragedies don’t have the chance to happen and that, even though he uses violence to accomplish his goals, he will never be the source of that tragedy. He wants to lash out in violent retaliation, but he cares more about redressing the balance of pain than he does inflicting it back. That’s how he can be friendly with people like Harley Quinn, Poison Ivy and Two-Face.
Bruce is a single mom at his core. He might not be the best parent all or even some of the time, but he loves his children and would do almost anything for them. He gets accused of creating child soldiers (both in canon and by fans), but none of his kids are soldiers to him. They work for him as Batman, but they are so much more than his co-vigilantes. He loves them like a parent and would die for any one of them. Indeed, this is a sentiment that extends to a few members of the JLA too, especially amongst the OG crew.
Bruce’s emotions are also discounted a lot, though that’s generally because he’s taken as cold and emotionless. He feels very deeply, about nearly everything, but he’s very good at hiding it. He views his heart as incredibly vulnerable and so only reveals it to a select few. The more this backfires on him, the less he’s willing to open up and the more guarded he becomes. He cares so much, but he’s so gripped by the fear of being hurt that it has to be forcefully pried out of him.
Brucie Wayne is an expertly crafted persona that plays into the female stereotype of “ditzy bimbo”. The “tall, dark and handsome” persona could have done just as well for his public face, playing into a more mysterious and alluring figure, but he chose to portray himself as a charming drunk, always down for a good time and with all the depth of a puddle. Brucie Wayne is such a shallow and vapid personality, comparable only to that of Paris Hilton’s public profile.
As I said, not every Bruce Wayne is portrayed this way, but some of the more famous examples of him certainly are: Kevin Conroy (Batman: The Animated Series/Justice League Unlimited/The Arkham games), Bruce Greenwood (DCAMU, Young Justice), Robert Pattinson (The Batman 2022) and arguably even Ben Affleck (DCEU). He’s capable of being brutal, demanding and uncompromising, but he ultimately wants the pain to stop, not to inflict it.
I think a lot of women see him almost as a kind of power fantasy, a way to exact violent vengeance on the ones who hurt people but maintain an inner kindness. This may be a bit of a self-projection, but I also think women can relate to his “going too far” notion - for those who have been victims before, it is so, so easy to slip into the cycle of perpetuation and become the abuser. He manages to thread the needle of striking back at an abuser without becoming one.
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Dick Grayson is perhaps one of the most sexualized male characters in existence, and almost exclusively catering to the female audience, particularly once he’s Nightwing. He’s kind, warm, funny, charming, attractive and considerate. But I think a lot of his appeal comes not only from being made of boyfriend material, but the way he demonstrates these attributes.
Dick pretty generally falls into the Eldest Daughter role once he’s an adult, becoming very close with his siblings and often acting as an intermediary between Bruce and the other kids. He’s the one that the rest of the family turns to when something happens to Bruce, and he’s often the one to take up the temporary mantle of Batman when Bruce is otherwise unable. Even with the Teen Titans, he’s a tentpole figure that guides his teammates and helps them mature despite often being the same age or younger than them.
Partly due to his past as a performer, Dick is a people-pleaser. This goes for his home life, romantic relationships and general public persona. Dick is Bruce’s charming first son, Bludhaven’s affable vigilante or [insert love interest]’s considerate boyfriend. He’s a lot more genuine in his public persona than Bruce is, but he’s gracious in the way a retail employee is - a certain measure of forced cheer that’s expected of him.
The way other characters sexualize Dick is also very female-coded. They always comment on his body, the tightness of his suit and how pretty he is. While they may also comment on his charm or personality, often the first things they discuss are physical. He usually plays along with this in good humour, but even other members of his family who share a lot of characteristics - Bruce, Tim, Jason, older Damian - don’t get the same kind of horny-on-main attention. He’s also usually paired with very strong/dominating love interests (Donna, Kory, Barbara) and has a tendency to be more passive in the relationship and get pursued when dating.
I think Dick acts like a lot of women do (or feel like they have to): upbeat and cheerful, attentive to their partners/family and always available for emotional caretaking. His body is a spectacle that receives unsolicited comment and judgment constantly. He fills the gaps where Bruce falls short and struggled to find his own path and identity away from the needs of his family.
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Women are used to having to relate to male characters in media, since female characters are generally so sparse, inauthentic or underdeveloped. I think that’s why, when we see ourselves in male characters, we latch onto them so tightly and care about them so much. While none of these attributes are exclusive to women, there’s a certain way that these aspects of characterization blend together that is generally more familiar to women than it is so men. There’s an echo of lived experience in their portrayals that hits very close to home.
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So the new Deadpool & Wolverine trailer was released.
There have been some people saying that -- surprise, surprise -- the TVA is going to be a villain in the movie and I'm not sure why but they seem confused about why the TVA would be villains.
Peeps, the TVA are cops and they're probably the most accurate depiction of cops in the history of copaganda.
Like they spend the ENTIRE first season of Loki trying to kill a very obviously trans-coded Sylvie -- literally hunting her down to kill her. If y'all don't know nothing about that ya need to Google Trans While Walking laws in the US. It literally lets the cops arrest ANY trans people they think could be sex workers. New York was one of the first states to repeal the law in 2019. But it's not just Sylvie, the TVA is after -- they just straight up MURDER anyone who steps out of line in ANY timeline EVER.
And in season two they commit MASS GENOCIDE against hundreds of thousands of variants in branched timelines for no fucking reason. Just because they existed.
"Oh but Milo the thing was melting down--"
Yes, and that was proven to be a completely moot point because even after they fixed the thingamajig -- I forgot the name and I don't have Disney+ right now -- it STILL fucking melted down because of Kang bullshit.
"Oh but Milo remember when Loki became Yggdrasil?"
Yes, Milo remembers Loki becoming the God of stories and custodian of the multiverse. That's the actual term from the comics. It's not the same thing as being a janitor. Exactly....? Cause his job is kinda to just be there and make sure things don't get tangled up and fucked up so....Huh. Is Loki a janitor?🤔
Welp, I'm sure that'll offend some batshit fanperson somewhere.
You know what else Milo remembers?
When Loki went back and saved the bad cops who committed MASS GENOCIDE and recruited them to work for the TVA again. And also that by the end of the second season the TVA's job was to observe and intervene to prevent -- basically they're the fucking thought police. Literally.
They might be worse than the fucking cops -- the TVA might as well just be the Marvelverse version of the fucking CIA. TVA. CIA. Why am I just now noticing this?😶 Anyway, there are whole ass lists of history books -- nonfiction -- and documentaries about why the CIA are terrorists so....
But getting back to DP & Wolvey....
The second season of Loki was basically -- the plot was a metaphor for the importance of police reform, right? But here's the thing we need to remember about TVA agents: They're only humans. Some of whom are perfectly okay with committing widespread, mass genocide and I don't know if we're gonna see Loki in DP & Wolvey, but I feel like that Loki might maybe be sitting on his Yggdrasil throne going,
"Son of a bitch -- Sylvie was right. You people are just infuckingcapable of not being terrorists."
Hopefully cause I swear to fucking fuck if I have to see Loki defending the CIA -- even though he can be a little delusional at times so it wouldn't exactly be out of character -- I will just not be okay. I will set the fucking cinema on fire. Not really but I will fantasize about it🤣
And that's why I think we're gonna see them turn on Wade and Logan, though. Because the good eggs are just outnumbered by the bad eggs unfortunately. The TVA is gonna use Wade to do their dirty work and just be like
Anyway, I'm sorry my thoughts are kind of all over the place right now. I might be moving soon and I'm kinda manic right now. I don't know why I'm telling you that😂
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