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brookheimer · 1 year

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Do you think the Logan abuse allegations might go into CSA territory? Unlike a lot of people I’m not 100% convinced roman experienced this, but people are speculating on Twitter that accusations of Logan’s physical and emotional abuse will snowball into CSA territory. If that’s the case I’d certainly imagine Logan was complicit rather than an abuser himself (if anyone probably uncle Mo?), but nevertheless shocking if it does come out

oooh i have a lot of thoughts about this actually!

personally, i'm with you -- i'm in the minority of people who don't think roman CSA is as good as canon, primarily because i don't think it needs to be in order for him to make sense. i think it's definitely possible and would certainly fit with his character, but a lot of people frame CSA as, like, The Explainer to roman roy which i just find kind of silly and cheap. people act like that's the only possible way he could turn out the way he has, and not only is that just blatantly untrue, it's also a pretty strange, diminishing narrative -- the way people talk about it really sounds like they're saying Well If You Have Sexual Dysfunction You Only Make Sense If Someone Molested You As A Child, which is just... not quite how things work. obviously, it's a reason someone might have those issues, but it certainly isn't the only one. i can write another post later on why i think rome makes sense outside of CSA if people want, but rn i'll just focus specifically on why i'm not convinced that CSA will become explicitly relevant to roman's character, especially not in relation to logan (and why i personally kinda hope that isn't the direction they take)

more under the cut!

for one thing just personally really doubt succession would make anything that explicit, that clear cut. like, i really don't think there's going to be a scene confirming or denying whether roman experienced CSA. and, as you said, i don't think logan was the abuser himself but i could see him covering it up for mo. maybe. i don't know. i don't know! it feels a little weird to me, honestly, just knowing logan's obsession with having power over his kids, his disgust at roman's grossness, and his blatant homophobia, it feels somewhat hard for me to conceptualize him not giving a shit about a colleague of his assaulting his son. i don't think he'd care for the right reasons, but i think he'd view it as either a) an attack on him and a disturbing power play -- you think you can take my kids out from under me? you think you can fucking control them? you?], b) absolutely fucking disgusting like the most sicko-ness of sickos -- not only are you attracted to m*n you're attracted to my weak little fuck of a son? what the fuck's wrong with you? are you not a man?, or c) both. like, idk. i just find it really hard to imagine that's something he would take lying down -- not out of protectiveness for roman but out of personal offense or pure disgust. i don't think he'd out it to the world or anything, he has his company to protect, but i think mo or whoever would definitely be cut out and shushed with hush money or something. which is still complicit, sure, but it isn't like i think logan would have actively turned a blind eye, which seems to be the prevailing opinion. it just... it doesn't fit from what we know of logan.

also, CSA is like.... it's inarguably bad. like, obviously. but succession thrives in realms of nuance. logan is abusive and horrible but you understand him. if you try to, you really can understand him. it doesn't excuse or justify anything, but he has a very human mindset that stops him from being, like, straight-up Evil. every succession character is a human before anything else, no one's a caricature (except maybe for s4 greg, but i'm withholding judgment there for now). succession fails if any character's deeds outweigh their humanity. no one is hitler. everyone thinks they're doing the best that they possibly can, including logan. that's why brian cox says logan's issue is he loves his kids too much -- he gets shit on for saying that, because i mean it does sound batshit, but i do get what he's saying. logan does not like his kids but he does love them. the reason he's so awful to them is because he loves them -- not in the sense that 'love is abuse' or whatever i'm about to get angry asks yelling ab, but because the only reason logan can't just let them go off and be disappointments is because he loves them. his abuse is not out of pure malevolence. it's because he wants them to become people they fundamentally aren't. that's what it comes down to. it's not just Evil Dad Hates Kids. logan wants so desperately for his children to become real people, people he can like and respect and trust and rely on, but they aren't those people, and that's something he's been entirely incapable of accepting. his abuse is an attempt to mold and to change and to fix, not just to punish. that's why the "i love you, but you are not serious people" was such an important line -- in some senses, it kind of was the end of logan's arc. it made a lot of sense for him to die there. where else could he go? he finally admitted what he'd known deep down all along: his children will never be the people he wants or needs them to be. no amount of pressure or competition or carrot-dangling will change that. he loves them, but they are not serious people.

that's why Logan CSA Committer/Allower feels really hard to imagine, both from a character standpoint and from a succession one in general — making logan an official CSA Allower would make it really, really hard for him to maintain the same kind of humanity and nuance he has as a character, which is rooted in the fact that logan doesn't hate his kids or want them to suffer. he wants them to become the peak of masculinist capitalism and none of them are capable of it. so if anything, he'd be furious at anyone who assaulted his kids because it would push them further from that ideal -- it would make them Wrong. if a boy were to be forced into sexual submission at a young age by an older man, they'd never be able to become that capitalistic ideal of masculinity; they're already fundamentally wrong. logan's anger would be directed both at the boy (roman) and at the man who forced it on him. but, to me, it seems like much of logan's anger with roman stems from his genuine lack of understanding as to how the fuck roman ended up like this -- how could a son of his end up like this? it's a personal failing for logan, one that he can't puzzle out. what did he do so wrong for roman to become the antithesis of literally everything logan stands for? i feel like if roman were a CSA victim and logan knew, he would probably... i don't know, try less to fix him. it's fucking awful, but i kind of feel like logan would find roman to be Tainted already and want to just shove him somewhere he doesn't have to look at him. but we see time and time again logan genuinely trying to squeeze the wrongness out of roman -- that's where his abuse of rome stems from, not so much molding him into the Right person as it is unmolding him out of being Wrong (bc only then can he do his ken/shiv tactics to mold him into being an heir) -- and try to understand in his misguided, cruel, offensive way what exactly is wrong with roman. i think if he knew, he wouldn't bother. he wouldn't ask, like "are you scared of pussy, son?" and "are you a sicko?" and call him gay slurs and all of that, because i think that would be too close to the truth he can't bear to acknowledge. just like how he pretends he had never and would never hit roman, even though he has, multiple times, both as a child and an adult. he wouldn't directly address something that brings shame to him, and having his son be the victim of CSA would indeed bring him a great deal of shame (not guilt, but shame). so, like, while it's true that logan's relationship with roman could be founded primarily in CSA-driven misdirected anger and victim blaming, i just again don't think that's necessary for their relationship to make sense, and that the nuances of their relationship almost make me feel like that's not the case either.

i also just personally think roman would maybe be more interesting were he not a CSA victim -- if it's confirmed that he is, everyone will be like Whelp Roman Solved! like, that would be all that's needed to explain him (or at least that's how people would act). and that would be such a fucking shame, man. i just think that there are a decent number of people in the world who have dysfunction not dissimilar to roman's who also aren't CSA victims and really, really struggle to figure out what exactly made them this way, especially when the entire world is acting like the only possible cause is CSA. and there are portrayals of CSA on television and in media. but... i can't think of anyone else like roman. i think him not having CSA and his dysfunction stemming instead from less obvious, more subtle-ly debilitating power dynamics and narratives of masculinity/sex would just be much more interesting, as even if succession handled his CSA with care, the majority of people would just see it as well, case closed, finally we understand roman. as if he isn't already perfectly understandable without it. maybe i'm just really biased as someone who thankfully did not experience CSA but seemingly inexplicably ended up quite similar to roman in a lot of ways, as someone who actually gets to feel a little more normal for once because of roman's abnormality. i just think there's a lot more to sex and sexual dysfunction than media often presents, because many storylines and characters are just very easy cause and effect relationships (CSA --> sexual dysfunction, rape --> hypersexuality, etc etc etc) when in reality there are so many ways that even tiny things could build up over time and end up manifesting in really detrimental ways. you can have a bad relationship with sex before ever having it, because sex is about soooo much more than the actual act of sex. and succession is about life and mirroring it, not creating easily understandable characters and narratively satisfying conclusions. so, yeah, i guess i don't know if succession will go down the CSA route, because that just feels... a little easy to me, maybe, when it doesn't need to be. not saying CSA is a bad plot point or anything, but that it is something depicted (and unfortunately often sensationalized) on television a lot, whereas characters with inexplicable sexual hangups are not.

i definitely hope this season delves further into roman's sexual dysfunction, but i'm kind of hoping it doesn't just explain it all away as Well He Was A Victim Of CSA, bc i think a) roman makes sense without it, b) the logistics of it happening relating to logan feel murky and confusing, c) succession isn't the type of show to outright Explain Things (and thank god), and d) there are a lot of people, i think, who have issues with sex they don't understand or that they don't 'deserve' to have, and i've never seen another character in any media that's depicted like that, although i have seen explorations into CSA.

sorry this was so long, but as i said, many fucking thoughts!!

#as always the thing about sending me asks is that chances are it will take me 4ever to respond but when i do it will be a fucking essay #if ppl want to know why i think rome makes sense without needing CSA as a backdrop i can write about that too at some point #tw csa #tw child abuse #tw sa #please let me know if there's anything yall want me to tag #succession #roman roy #logan roy #(ended up talking so mcuh ab logan here. can't believe i wrote fucking logan meta)#succession meta #casey shut the fuck up about roman roy #anon #asks

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mercutio-the-velaryon · 6 months

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Hello stranger, I saw you asking about gen v supe names so I come bearing offerings:

For Marie, the best I've heard so far is Heartstring (which I think would work especially well if we're imagining vought's influence, and trying to push Marie as the new Starlight) I also like Heartstopper and Queen of Hearts, but I think those lean more towards villain names

For Emma, she could keep Cricket, but I like the idea of her picking something to do with her giant form, so: Giantess, or Colossa, or Titania

For Jordan, (now realistically vought would chew them up and give them the most cliche, cringy name possible, but ignoring that) my personal favorite is Pulse or Pulsar.

For Cate, I've seen Push as a good option, but I also like Siren, Whisper, or Piper (as in like the pied piper)

For Andre, I hate to say it but I think he'd just take up Polaris. Though I also think Magneta, (I know it sounds like magneto but TB universe doesn't know that) or Steel would work, I could also see Vulcan (the Roman god of metal) being cool but that might be too niche. (Metallo would be my first choice but it's been used sadly)

For Sam, tbh Sam's powers are pretty stock, so he could probably pick anything he wants. I could see him taking up something that follows the same format as his brother, so: _____ boy (ironically the first choice that I think would come to Sam's mind is superboy, but that is of course off limits, though personally, I'd find it hilarious) maybe Ultra Boy or Power Boy, or the Strong Man (who am I kidding these are all terrible, I've got nothing for Sam... Super Sam?)

Really though when you look at naming conventions (both in the boys and in superhero tradition overall) a lot of heroes' names don't have a ton to do with their powers and are either: highly generic (Superman, Mr. Fantastic, Captain Marvel, Wondee Woman etc) or have to do with a gimic that isn't necessarily related to their powers, so there's actually quite a bit of wiggle room, to just pick whatever sounds good.

Omggg these are great, I wanted to write an au set in the near future, where the cast had their superhero names so thank you for this if you would kindly allow me to steal these names for that purpose 👀👀

Heartstring is so good, it fits Marie so perfectly I gasped because yes exactly. I was thinking Emma should have a name change to kind of symbolise her regaining her autonomy from her mother with how she was forced to portray herself, I'm feeling Titania tbh. I really really like Pulse for Jordan simple effective love love love. Siren for Cate is insane cause not only does it encompass the nature of her powers but it also speaks to how she's used them, how she's lulled her friends into a false sense of security then caused them harm (wiped their memories) like yesssssssss. Ugh this is such a good listttt. Andre I think would change his name from the one he'd inherit from his dad, I was workshopping something like Silver Bandit, Heavy Metal or Ironclad (already in marvel lmao fml) or Steel Knight to pay homage to his rebel without a cause energy. I wanted just Steele but that's already a version of superman I think, John Irons I believe holds that mantle. I think even just Ultra would work as a name for Sam. Or maybe just The Boy like how Kimiko's The Female idk.

Thank you this is so helpful!!!!!

#gen v #gen v amazon #gen v spoilers #marie moreau #jordan li #the boys #cate dunlap #andre anderson #emma meyer #sam riordan

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casey-complains · 5 months

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I know the argument could be made that the Sides were roleplaying Inside Out and so technically they didn't need to sound like themselves but ooh boy, I watched newest Asides and when Roman appeared I had no idea who he was supposed to be. And when Virgil showed up I literally would have not known it was him if it wasnt the eyeshadow. Like the Sides in the 2016-2020 vids all have very distinct voice inflections and word usage that helps define them as their own unique characters but the only Side whose voice felt distinct and true to themselves was Remus to a degree.

Even when they were "themselves" again, they didnt sound like themselves. It was so bizarre, it was like watching one of those AI deepfake videos.

And as much as I'd like to see the finale, I'm not sure if I want to see it with these versions of the characters. And in regards to this past year's "content" like, yeah I would've loved seeing some lighthearted filler content with the Sides several years back that were non-main series related, but this current year of Asides content has made it increasingly harder not to feel like Thomas is ready to move on creatively from SaSi, but he isn't willing to admit that to fans. Or at least be honest with fans that he wants to pursue other projects and maybe one day return to SaSi to give a finale.

In contrast to other content creators who are honest with their fans that there was a time they created "x content" and now they find it more fulfilling to create "y content", it just feels incredibly shitty for him to string fans along knowing his Sides content does more views than anything else (and im sorry but my toxic conspiracy theory is that there was a genuine spinoff series featuring Sasi!Roman but Thomas scrapped it and "refurbished" the idea to be Roleslaying and misled fans into thinking it was the spinoff sasi series because it would get the sasi fans in the door) and act passive-aggressive when fans express interest in Sasi content since he hasnt outright said anything about his feelings regarding SaSi.

Something of interest to note, Thomas was on a recent Smosh vid a few weeks back and when they did their usual spiel of "what can people expect to find you", he didnt promote Sanders Sides at all, just Roleslaying and his shorts content, which is like,,,, absolutely wild. I know Sanders Sides is on indefinite hiatus but if that doesnt show that he really wants new people who finds him to focus on his ongoing dnd series than SaSi, Idk what will.

i literally have nothing to add, you said it all perfectly

#kc.txt #ts critical #ts criticism #asks #anon

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sallysellsseashellssundays · 7 months

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The Waters of Mars Rewatch

I've already ranted about this to @witchofthemidlands but just need to write down my thoughts after rewatching The Waters of Mars yesterday

When you write this episode, Rose, The Parting of the Ways/Bad Wolf, Army of Ghosts/Doomsday, Smith and Jones, Partners in Crime, Midnight, the entire S4 ending, THE END OF TIME you can have as many Slitheen fart jokes as you'd like Mr. RTD *bravo*

Also, I'm losing my mind as to why Ten went to Mars specifically, could it have been b/c Jackie and Donna always said he was from Mars?? And he really was making an effort to leave initially and not affect history...it's fascinating to see his final response as more and more people die compared to, for example, Voyage of the Damned. He's really at a point in his life where he's been broken down enough that he loses it completely

This SHOULD have been a two-parter episode there is so much to explore with the Mars crew and I even see parallels between them and the crew from the Impossible Planet two-parter it would have been wild to see the end of this episode paralleled with that storyline. Roman is like Toby, Yuri and Mia maybe like Danny, Ed definitely like Jefferson, Scheffi is like Scooti?, Adelaide like Zach etc. idk but I see a lot of parallels

My absolute favorite tiny detail is Ten expressing dislike for the robot but as soon as Roman talks about robot dogs he goes "actually hold up a moment" lol he will be loyal to K9

Adelaide is a badass I love her so much and I find the contrast between her and Lady Christina just one episode prior to be fascinating, I think Adelaide is exactly the type of person that Ten needed in his life at that exact moment

The Doctor speaking Martian...it's crazy how easily it could have turned into a Midnight 2.0 situation for him, I think Adelaide is the difference here she exudes so much authority

The fact that they took the time to focus the camera on Mia and Yuri holding hands, like 1 second only, but I go insane for that recurring theme in RTD's era especially considering how much that relates to timepetals and how distraught Ten is after losing Rose again and Donna

Speaking of Donna I love the Pompeii reference I could write essays about that as well as the mention of the Journey's End storyline with Adelaide as a child, RTD isn't hitting you over the head with it but you can definitely see all these links between what Ten lost in that episode and the Pompeii situation and his mental state in this episode aaahhhh what a masterpiece!!!

DT's acting in the final scene gives me CHILLS, he literally feels like an entirely different character as soon as he steps off the TARDIS, I feel the hairs on my body stand with the look in his eye. I am not a huge fan of Joan in the Human Nature two-parter but I think that was an interesting set of episodes and I also think it works solely b/c DT can very convincingly make you feel that John Smith is different from the Doctor even though there are some remnants there, same here in this episode. It's the Doctor but there's something there that is very un-Doctor.

#doctor who #the waters of mars #tenth doctor #rose tyler #donna noble #captain adelaide brooke #the mars crew my beloveds #cannot believe this episode is real what a freaking masterpiece #it actually managed to feel more intense on rewatch #like i remember it being great but holy cow #rtd really outdid himself #dw rewatch #my ramblings

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sindirimba · 3 months

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a bit ago @nevermindirah and i had a very serious scholarly discussion about who among kiki and matthias' film roles should kiss. it's kind of difficult because both of them have played a lot of people who truly Went Through It in a way not conducive to frivolous nonsense, but we gave it our best try. i made a chart:

now it's true that kiki has not yet played storm and matthias escaped playing batman, but if you believe you can do anything, imagination is the key etc.

we don't know dandelion (dandelion) yet but the music connection makes kissing paul (a bigger splash) obvious. he seems loyal(ish, author is dead etc) and he cries, what more could she ask for

nile & booker is obvious and inarguable. i can't remember why there's a (2) there. comics booker? dirah help.

we went with margaret (don't worry darling) and peter (brothers by blood) because he's large and there'd be some interesting class stuff to explore. probably.

ellie (chip n dale) and gene (our souls at night) are some of the more normal of this group (even accepting the chipmunks), we envisioned them watching tv together and presumably making out on the couch. jane fonda probably approves.

meeka (coming 2 america) and vincent (disorder) is obvious. lots of sexually tense brawling and pinning down and such. the physicality is compelling. highly erotic.

bessie (native son) and gabriel (far from the madding crowd) is wholly a 'who can we give to bessie to give her a nice pleasant time. gabriel as the soft sheep boy seemed like the clear option. now there is some culture/chronology clash but they can work it out i think. note the sheep which is a highly important aspect. also less sensical but we decided to have bessie and roman (the mustang) be besties because i'm not sure i remember why. but i think it's cute. bessie needs hugs and in this fanciful little universe roman is capable of giving slightly horse-scented hugs.

tish (if beale street could talk) and olivia (veracity) are out of the equation here due to being happily partnered and into women respectively but they are on this chart anyway because. just because. gigi (le fidèle) is here for similar reasons, being an Xtreme Wife Guy.

matthias has a more extensive filmography than kiki sadly so we kind of went a little off the deep end at this point. django (django) and andré (a little chaos) are NOT from the same time period but are nevertheless paired because they fit into generically historical wig time, and they'd both benefit from some sweaty weird clone sex. probably. don't question it. it's true that andre is also happily partnered but something something libertine free love french hedonism something something. idk.

roman and ali (rust and bone) form a fight club due to being remarkable examples of meat and who (would) benefit from throwing their bodies at other men. it doesn't need to be sexual but can be if desired. jacky (bullhead) needs an incredible amount of care so why not let him hang out with a literal saint, st peter (the way of the wind). neither dirah or i know much about this topic but we went on the assumption that a literal heavenly being might be able to help the tragically in need of help jacky. the second peter is there for humorous name reasons but also he's had a lot of family related trauma so he and jacky could maybe bond somehow. not really romantic but if they want to i'm not going to judge.

#tog #kind of #we shan't speak of bathsheba at this time

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transmutationisms · 11 months

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HI really love your thoughts on stuff. do you think succession - as a tv show with a script - makes all of its negative statements negatively or positively? this is something im having trouble with, specially with shiv and the overwhelming misogyny. i understand its quite literally real life. but they know the importance of media as a statement that defines real life - its sort of meta, but the whole thing with whether or not calling mencken, knowing it would affect politics, is something that can reflect on the show itself. i dont think i fully agree with what they do to shiv in the way they portray the misogyny. it feels like a "and thats how it will always be" more than "thats how its been". idk. maybe I just hate misogyny and cant stand to see that. but everything is a statement. what do u think?

well in general i agree that, yeah, the show is more interested in satire and criticism than offering any kind of imaginative solution or alternative. so, if you want to watch something that suggests alternatives to logan-style misogyny (& i'd understand why) then i think you're going to be dissatisfied with this show. like, obviously even with logan gone, his influence still haunts the company and the family, and anyway the broader structures of capitalism and its use / exploitation of women were always much larger than logan alone. all of this also applies to how roman and kendall (& to a lesser extent connor) are punished for failing to live up to standards of masculinity; logan feminised kendall to punish him for business failures and derided roman for what he saw as a more innate femininity that made roman disgusting to him.

i actually think gender is a strong suit for the show. it's very deeply interested in how they each relate to standards of bourgeois masculinity and femininity, and how these strictures are confining and punishing (often literally, as logan used them as tools of his abuse). for shiv she lived up to some of logan's femands for an heir (her emotional repression, flashes of killer instinct) but was ultimately always doomed by the fact that logan saw her as permanently being his little girl, denied a body (bc this was less disgusting to him than thinking of her as a woman) and never the right fit for his corporate mould, even when she was trying her hardest to fit it. roman and kendall ofc pick up on this and the way her gender can be used in itself to lock her out of the upper echelons of power (a walking pair of teats, all the men got together in man club). but ultimately this is a dissection of misogyny and masculinity, not a suggestion for escape.

i have mixed feelings about the sort of ethical argument here. it is fair to say that succession has a fundamentally conservative ethos in the sense that the satire and snark angle is uninterested in offering solutions or imagining alternatives. it's grounded in exploring capitalism, fascism, the resulting gender politics, &c, and to the extent that it challenges these things, it's by portraying them as worthy of mockery. it's not a leftist political treatise. but like, i think there's a can of worms to open here in terms of asking how revolutionary a television show is capable of being simple by virtue of the medium. like, even if the content is radical internally, does is matter that the form is still one embedded in capitalist production, ie, that the show is a commodity on the same market? i identify the root of misogyny within the capitalist mode of production; how far is something made within these parameters capable of going in offering any kind of alternative? and also, do we care? like, am i watching tv because i'm looking for radical politics? again, this doesn't negate the critique of succession's critique. but i do think it's a bit... trite? to ask tv to be some kind of moral guide---particularly on a show where the premise is such that any 'challenge' to misogyny would still be constrained within the bourgeois world the characters inhabit.

#he doesn't even trust water

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creativia10 · 6 months

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*materializes into existence*

HI :D

Mayhaps platonic analogical? Logan meeting one of Virgil's pet spiders? Maybe?

Idk if you're up for requests rn, but here this is in case you are.

Have fun writing :D

When Virgil Can Share His Spider Love

Warnings: Spiders

Pairing: Platonic Logan and Virgil

Wordcount: 3059

Notes: Yes I am most certainly up for requests. My first post about taking fanfic writing requests was for Sanders Sides, but this is actually my first writing request for this series. Most of them have been for the Owl House. I actually haven't written for analogical (platonic of otherwise) in a while, so this is nice.

This prompt implies that Virgil has more than one pet spider, which was a concept I don't think I've seen before. So I wanted to play with that idea in a way that still stuck true to the initial prompt. This almost gets me to want to write a fic about Virgil acquiring his first spider pet actually. I'm also considering one about Logan getting a pet. Maybe another fic related to this one, sometimes I get inspired.

It's almost common knowledge at this point that Virgil has a pet spider. So he doesn’t think much of it. When Logan approached Virgil one day out of the blue, his pet spider was not a topic he expected to come up.

Logan was all business. His posture straight and face neutral. Not an unusual look for the logical side. His eyes had a direct and focused look to them as he faced Virgil. That said he had an intent purpose for coming to the other.

Virgil tensed instinctively. His first response to anything always being to stay on guard.

Logan’s hands were folded behind his back and he nodded to the anxious side.

“Virgil. If I could have a moment of your time, I wanted to ask something of you,” Logan said.

Yeah, that wasn’t helping at all.

Virgil leaned back a bit and nodded.

“Uh…yeah Logan? What’s up?”

Logan tilted his head slightly at the reaction, but his face didn’t twitch.

“Apologies if my approach has distressed you at all. It is nothing bad, I can assure you.”

Now that should reassure him in some way, but this was Virgil. Hopefully the others would understand by now it’s not that simple to calm him down.

“Uh huh. Just out with it, Logan. What did you want to ask?” Virgil asked.

Logan nodded and straightened up again.

“Right, yes. I have been informed of the uh spider situation in your room.”

Ah, yes. Virgil knew what he was referring to.

After the mini-plushies video, Roman had seen Virgil's use for mini-Roman. A companion for his pet spider. Roman had not approved, not wanting any version of him to be near a spider. So he got Remus to give Virgil another spider, so that could be the first one’s companion. Little did Roman know, the new one was a male spider. Seeing as the original was a female…you can see where that went.

Roman had even more incentive to avoid Virgil’s room than he had before. Virgil loved having many spiders in his room though. These spiders were all over the room now. The webbing from the Halloween special was no longer a one-time thing. Since there were so many spiders around. Most of them were still small, as the majority were still babies. They were actually hard to keep track of because of that. Another thing that made the other sides unnerved.

“Ah. Yeah? What about it?” Virgil asked.

He wasn’t sure why Logan was asking. It didn’t affect him. The other sides rarely went into Virgil’s room anyways because of the affect it had on them.

“Well, uh,” Logan shifted. The first break in his perfectly logical posture.

Now Virgil narrowed his eyes, but in confusion.

Logan cleared his throat.

“I haven’t heard of such a phenomenon happening with another side before. Which, of course I suppose makes sense. Seeing as this is a new thing, and we only know of other sides of Thomas. Not to mention you are the only side here with an affinity for spiders. As most of them have a fear of them due to Thomas’ arachnophobia…”

The rambling…was Logan nervous?

“Logan,” Virgil simply said.

Logan stopped mid-sentence and then adjusted his tie.

“Ah, right. Well, anyways, I found myself curious about the state of these spiders in your room. As I often am with anything out of the ordinary in the mindscape when it’s not solely imagination based. It only makes sense as the aspect of Thomas for logic. That I would want to know as much as I can, especially if it pertains to himself,” Logan said.

“Logan, you don’t have to justify being curious about something,” Virgil said.

Something shifted briefly in Logan’s face, that was gone in a blink. Logan adjusted his glasses.

“Of course not. I wasn’t doing that. I don’t need to do such a thing,” Logan said.

Virgil found himself wondering if Janus would call Logan out on that were he around. Virgil decided to let it be for now though.

“Okay. Anyways,” Virgil gestured for Logan to get to his point.

Logan nodded again.

“Right, yes. Is it okay with you that I enter your room and observe the spiders in there,” Logan asked.

Virgil blinked. He wasn’t sure why, but that was not what he expected Logan to ask.

Maybe to ask a bunch of questions, given Logan’s love for knowledge. But to actually want to see them? Nobody had ever expressed an interest in something of Virgil’s like that before. He didn’t blame the others for fearing spiders, of course. But it was nice that someone actually wanted to know more about the creatures. And not just want to get rid of them right away.

“Is that all?” Virgil found himself asking.

Logan nodded.

“Yes. I wanted to see how the many spiders behaved in an enclosed environment such as your room. Not to mention if their behaviors compare to real spiders at all. I'm curious to see what that could mean for Thomas’ subconscious,” Logan said.

“Okay. Yeah, you can watch them. But under one condition,” Virgil said and held a finger up.

Virgil could see the excited gleam in Logan’s eye once Virgil had said yes. Logan rolled his shoulders back and re-straightened his posture. But Virgil could still see Logan’s excitement.

“Yes, of course. What is it?” Logan asked.

“You must not harm any of them,” Virgil said more seriously. The others’ dislike of the spiders was not the only reason no one else had gone in since so many spawned. Like Virgil said, most of the spiders were so small. His difficulty keeping track of them made Virgil nervous as well. He wasn’t versed in the proper way to take care of so many spiders. They had started to crawl around before he could get them in an enclosed space for their own safety.

He didn’t want to chance anyone else stepping on them. Especially when he was barely sure about being able to avoid such a thing himself. Plus, even though he doesn’t think anyone would want to upset Virgil, he is well aware of fight-or-flight when it comes to seeing something you are afraid of. He doesn’t think anyone would want to upset Virgil. But one of them could smack a spider instinctively without meaning to.

Nobody had complained about the ban from his room for the time being. Yet, Virgil could see Logan being more careful. Logan had the science knowledge on how to be around critters. And would be more cautious in Virgil’s room anyways.

“If you so much as swing near a spider, I will ban you from my room and from all the spiders,” Virgil continued.

Logan nodded.

“Of course, Virgil. I promise, I mean no harm to your spiders. I will be extra careful,” Logan said.

Virgil’s shoulders untensed and he sighed in relief.

“Okay,” Virgil said. He gestured for Logan to follow him and headed to his room.

He stopped in front of his door and turned around. Then he waved for Logan to step back some. Logan furrowed his brows in confusion but stepped back anyways.

“Okay. So first, I need to make sure none of them are in the way. So there is a clear path to walk in without a chance of anyone getting stepped on. I also ask that you not come in here without me,” Virgil said.

“Of course, Virgil. This is your room. I wouldn’t enter without you unless you said I could.”

Virgil nodded and then carefully opened the door. He quickly looked on the ground and then stepped forward, closing the door behind him. He wanted to make sure none of them could escape from the room. Spiders running rampant through the mindscape was the last thing they needed.

As Virgil looked forward on the ground, he squinted and kneeled to get a better view. There were some on the floor. Looking like little black dots with tiny legs scattering about. He reached forward and gently brushed them to the side. Most of them reacted instantly, scurrying away. Some heading to the closest webs and jumping away. The ones closest to his hands started to climb onto his fingers the moment his warmth came near them.

He sighed at those ones and held his hands to his chest as he stood up. Then he moved his hands to the closest webs at his shoulder level and lead them to cling onto those instead.

Virgil scanned the floor another time to be sure and then turned to the door.

“Okay Logan! You can come in now. Please close the door quickly, and still watch your step the whole time. They move around a lot.”

The door opened and Logan swiftly slipped inside. He closed the door almost as soon as he was in. Honestly, Virgil was impressed.

Logan leaned against the door for a moment. Then he looked down in front of him, before he followed Virgil’s path to the center of the room. Logan walked at a slower pace though as he was looking around at the room.

Virgil’s room tended to have a lot of spider webs and cobwebs, as he liked the aesthetic. But there were way more now. The newer ones were more distinguishable. They had nicer designs and the designs were easier to see. Most of them didn’t block walkways thankfully. But the walls were covered in spiderwebs, along with some corners. And the webs were covered in spiders. They were scurrying about, spinning webs, and crawling along the furniture as well.

Logan looked around himself a lot, as though he couldn’t decide where to focus on.

“Fascinating…” Logan said, “I assumed that others had vastly overestimated the amount in here. Given the other sides’ wariness of spiders.”

Virgil snorted at that.

“Ah, no. The spiders reproduced fast.”

Logan hmmed at that. as he stepped forward to the wall right to their side. He observed a particularly intricate web hanging there.

“Do they always have this much energy?” Logan asked. His thinking face on.

Virgil thought about it.

“I’m not sure actually. There’s always some sort of movement going on, except maybe at night. It’s hard to determine if it’s the same spiders or not though,” Virgil said.

“Yes, I can imagine the sheer amount of them would make discerning that difficult. Now a 24/7 camera on them and careful observation may help with gathering data for that,” Logan muttered.

“I’m not putting a camera in here, Logan,” Virgil said.

Logan waved that off, “Yes, of course not. I was just thinking out loud,” Logan said.

Virgil hmmed at that. He knew Logan wouldn’t breach his privacy, but even bringing up such a thing made Virgil nervous.

Virgil took a breath. Logan continued to mutter to himself aloud. He leaned in closer to the webs than most people tended to, while being mindful not to get stuck in one.

A small hiss got Virgil’s attention, and he glanced to his bedside table. He smiled when he saw his first spider companion sitting there. Virgil walked over and then kneeled so he was eye-level with her.

“Don’t worry, I haven’t forgotten about you,” Virgil said softly.

He had no idea where her mate was though. Probably on one of the ceiling webs or something.

He reached forward slowly before he started to pet her.

He heard Logan come over to them, and then sit on the bed. The bed was one of the few places the spiders didn’t take over in the room. Unless it was night time and they decided to follow mom cuddling with Virgil. Before he has to shoo them away that is.

Virgil shifts so Logan can see, before Virgil puts a hand out in front of the bedside table. He gently coaxes her crawl onto his hand. Virgil felt her little legs tap lightly against his hand as she scurried on. He stood up with her in his hand. Then he turned to face Logan.

“Would you like to meet her?” Virgil asked.

Logan blinks. “Meet her?”

“You know, like pet her and maybe hold her,” Virgil said.

Logan looked at the spider with an awed look.

“Ah…if it is truly okay?” Logan asked.

Virgil nodded and sat beside the other on the bed.

“Yeah, I trust you. Plus, I’m right here in case you change your mind.”

Logan nodded.

“Alright.”

Virgil holds his hand out, and Logan reaches forward hesitantly. He pets her softly, barely even touching her.

“I can’t promise they would all be this chill with petting,” Virgil said. “Even if the others weren’t too small for that anyways. I don’t know them all yet. I haven’t even really tried naming the new ones, as I wouldn’t know how to keep track of which one was who.”

“What is this one’s name then?” Logan asked.

Virgil felt his face warm. Nobody had asked about her name yet, so he hadn’t needed to admit it.

“…Charlotte.”

Logan paused and then smiled.

“Like from the book?” Logan asked.

Virgil sighed.

“Yeah…I named her when I was young, alright? And I thought of the spider friend from the book when I saw her…” Virgil muttered.

“You don’t need to be embarrassed, Virgil. It’s cute,” Logan said, still smiling.

Virgil groaned.

“I don’t want to seem cute,” Virgil said.

“Ah, of course. Having one sentimental name for a pet doesn’t have to take away from your uh, quote ‘toughness’,” Logan said.

“I’ll give the other spiders much cooler names,” Virgil said.

“Of course. I would expect nothing less,” Logan said.

They went back to just focusing on the spider after that.

“It has been a while since Thomas has touched such a creature. Especially given his arachnophobia. I myself never have on my own. I don’t interact with the imagination much,” Logan said after a moment.

Virgil nods.

“I understand. I don’t go out of my way for the twins’ creatures. But it is nice to have my own little companion like this,” Virgil said.

Logan nodded, petting her softly again.

“Yes, I recall there are many positive benefits to having a pet. I can uh,” Logan clears his throat again, “I can see the appeal.”

“Did you want to hold her?” Virgil asked.

Logan inhaled.

“Yes,” He said.

Logan held his hands out.

“Be very careful with her,” Virgil said.

“I will,” Logan said softly.

Virgil quietly encouraged her to crawl onto Logan’s hand. She was much more hesitant to crawl onto Logan’s hand. Charlotte stepped forward at a slower pace as though cautious about the new surface.

Virgil saw Logan refrain from jolting at Charlotte’s first little taps onto his hand. He only twitched briefly. The touches of the little legs tickle, especially if you’re not used to it. Logan’s eyes widened as he looked down at her. After a moment of no more movement, Charlotte continued to crawl onto Logan’s hand.

He slowly brought her closer to his chest, and put his other hand up near the first as a wall to keep her from falling. She spun in a circle on his hand.

Logan’s mouth twitched into a smile at that.

“I think she likes you,” Virgil said.

Logan glanced up, but didn’t look away from her for long.

“How can you tell?” Logan asked.

Virgil shrugged.

“Well for one thing, the fact that she has stayed on your hand. She also hasn’t tried to bite or attack you at all,” Virgil said.

“Was that a concern?” Logan asked.

“I don’t know. Like I said, this hasn’t come up much. She at least doesn’t dislike you or see you as a threat. Probably because she trusts me,” Virgil said.

Logan nodded.

“Do you think she is more intelligent than a real spider? Along with the others around here?” Logan asked.

“I’m not sure. It wouldn’t surprise me though. Considering Thomas’ fear of spiders, these ones are surprisingly friendly. More so than I would expect,” Virgil said.

“That could make it easier for them to exist in the mindscape,” Logan said.

“Perhaps,” Virgil said.

Charlotte stayed put for a moment after doing her spins. She crawled side to side for a moment. But then decided to get brave and started to climb up Logan’s arm.

Logan gasped and froze, clearly unprepared for that.

“Charlotte no!” Virgil exclaimed. He wrapped his hands around her and pulled her off of Logan before she could get past his elbow.

She then proceeded to attempt crawling around his fingers.

“Gah!”

Virgil struggled to get a hold of her again. He ended up using a scientific gentle pinch to hold her still before setting her back down on the bedside table. She moved side to side again before starting to climb up the wall to get to the web there.

Virgil sighed and turned back to Logan.

“Sorry about that. She decided to be in an adventurous mood all the sudden,” Virgil said.

Logan laughed a little.

“It’s fine. Honestly, it was a bit amusing once I realized what was happening. I was only concerned it would be harder to watch out for her when she was crawling about,” Logan said.

Virgil nodded.

“Yeah, I know what you mean. Which is why it was better to get her off of you. In fact, I think spider visit time may be over now. They may not seem like it, but spiders can actually get quite shy. I wouldn’t want to chance how they would be once they get tired of being around a new person,” Virgil said.

Logan nodded. “Of course. I’m grateful for any amount of time I got with them.”

Logan walked out of the room, Virgil behind him to close the door carefully again.

Logan smiled at Virgil once he was in the hallway.

“Thank you, Virgil. I know that was a bit of an unusual request for you. I don’t take your trust for granted,” Logan said.

Virgil smiled a bit shyly at him.

“No problem, Logan. It’s not that big of a deal. Let me know if you ever wanna swing by again to visit them. Maybe you can help me find a way to name the new ones without going crazy,” Virgil said.

Logan nodded at him.

“Of course. I’d be honored.”

#sanders sides #Creativia Requested fics #ts virgil #ts logan #sanders sides fic #platonic analogical

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salty-medley · 1 year

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Not fond of that discovery.

Remember the paintings in Fort Maria? I found the original artist on Deviant and messaged them about it, mostly by curiosity about these illustrations and they weren't even aware that SSO used the illustrations in the game.

Idk but for me it doesn't sounds really good, the fact they cancelled a possible game idea ( for the story they already cancelled a mobile game ), the fact they didn't even mention the utilisation to the artist ( not the most problematic as they probably paid for these concepts, even if they could mention it just for the artist to add it to the description and maybe to even link it to the game, Idk, like free ad for both sides) and the fact they used something not related to the lore of the game like AT ALL.

Roman ruins are already dumb in that universe but aztec ? Uh... That just sound like "Ok guys, now we gain that much money from desperate dumbasses ready to buy every crap we release we could think about making new illustrations for an area... Oh no, let's put something totally not related, maybe it'll keep them busy making theories and they won't rant about the new overpriced horse?"

Edit for the questions:

For the painting itself it's the green landscape with waterfalls and statue heads, you can find it in Fort Maria easily, also on youtube and here in one of my previous posts ( just search the tag #sso ) . The artist is on Deviantart and easily found. They were happy to know that their art was used for something.

As for the already cancelled game it's star stable run, which if it's not made by them remains their product, and was probably cancelled due to the fact they changed the soul riders. Here the artist was speaking about something not related to SSO at all, like another project. But as the teams and leads changed, we can only guess it's a project which they abandoned now as they used the artwork for something else.

Now I obviously don't know more about it, and for me it's the main reason we had some sudden weird and unfitting details like the roman ruins, they probably just used old artwork for different things and tried to recycle it.

Once again it's suppositions/ theories so just keep that in mind, it's just the end of the theories and speculations related to this artwork.

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senzacaponecoda · 6 months

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tempted to make a clang that's like

Parthia hosting a row of embassies between the Chinese and Roman empires. For whatever reason the Chinese and Roman families mix and a mix of 1st century Latin, late Old Chinese/Early Middle Chinese, and late Parthian

Syntax would be SVO

Cultures would supply vocabulary appropriate to their source, e.g. ? < *sɨ for silk from MC, or slɨ from OC; ? < *ɔɫeʊ̃ˑfor olive oil from Latin, ? < something like *muɾɣ for chicken from Parthian

Political and work related vocabulary might lean IE while household vocabulary might lean Sinitic if just to provide a semantic guideline for vocabulary. Initially the populations would be trilingual but overtime the pidgin would pick up Parthian phonetics, filling out a lot of the common vocabulary, and I guess I'm just imagining that the Romans and the Parthians would already have something of a common diplomatic pidgin to work out of due to Graeco-Persian relations and Sinitic is left out of that, but, idk, maybe the diplomats have a lot of daughters to marry off.

Phonology like

p t tS k <p t č k>

b d dZ g <b d j g>

f s S x <f s š x>

z Z R <z ž ǧ>

m n J N <m n ny ng>

w l j r <v l y r>

i ɨ u <i ë u>

e ə o <e ä o>

a <a>

Length matters, somewhat controlled by syllable weight though.

Stress would to land on the last syllable.

consonant clusters would be simplified by epenthesis. Syllables want to be CV > VC, CVC > CVV >>> others, basically. Whether to infix or prefix the epenthetic vowel would be according to sonority; əndar <ntar but tərē < trej

A glottal stop would be semi-phonemic, starting V initial words and responsible for seemingly short final syllables, mostly from Xan.

Latīnə short non-low vowels would generally be represented by the central vowels due to mismatches.

Morphology generally Parthian

Nouns would only show inflection in the plural. The developing split ergativity of Middle Persian and Parthian would be suppressed for SVO, but -ān still only being an oblique plural lends towards generalizing a long vowel nominative from Latin. Though the Latin by this point is already pretty fairly leveled case-wise, so it might actually just come from an accusative. Final s from Latin would generally be lost, which would imply a merger of neuter and feminine nouns, so generalized from -ā, which has the benefit of looking like the oblique plural -ān inherited from Persian.

Verbs would be leveled to just a stem, which functions as a participle, and an infinitive, the stem suffixed in an. These would be combined periphrastically with forms of budan and estadan for passive, past, and perfective stems.

The four short romans took the women as wives

pay? čahār twanC rōmānōs capere pay? zan čīyōn uxores

pe čahār tuan rōmānōh kap pe zan čīğōn ɨksəre

Pe čahār-ā tuan-ā rōmān-ā kap ašt pe zanān čē-ğōn ëksär-ān

the women had been taken

Pe zanā kap eštad bud ašt

DEF woman-PL take PERF PASS PAST

I am taking it/will take the silk

Ängō kapan pe sëlū.

idk

#conlang

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nesisamess · 9 months

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i am GUESSING that one of the points of the drdt mv was to overload us with so much information that it is hard to pick out what is important and what is inconsequential… that being said, here are a few things i noticed/am hypothesizing (also this will contain spoilers for the mv AND for chapter 2, plus fair warning that most of this may be nonsensical if you haven’t watched the video <3)

first off: the wingding translations at 0:36

so i translated it and… it’s just a rickroll. that’s it. huge L moment for me when i realized

next: the girl at 1:05

her hair is too different to be Mai and she doesn’t look like any of the female students, so I ruled that out. My first thought was that she was David’s sister, Diana, but i’m a little unsure of this theory because I’m not even sure Diana is real (this relates to note #11, since the amount of spaces match up with Diana’s name, but i’m not sure since i couldn’t find the 11 in the mv itself)

the crossword puzzle at 1:22 aka #1 in the description notes.

(note: sorry for my very crappy drawing lmao)

you can see that if you adhere to the note in the description and use their proper first names, it fills in perfectly. However, instead of having David’s name anywhere in the crossword, instead we have Mai. The description says to “exclude our protagonist” (in this case that would be David) so this makes sense.

I honestly know next to nothing about Mai (i’m unsure if information about her is out there and if so where to find it), so the importance of her being included might be lost on me.

Also: Each of the characters has a roman numeral attached to them so this might relate the roman numerals that pop up throughout the video? Idk, just something to think about.

at 2:02 it shows the same sort of voting thing that we saw at the end of chapter 2, however this time all 16 votes are voted towards one person. we know this couldn’t be possible for any future case as too many people are dead, so I wonder if this is just representative and doesn’t actually reference any real game event? this also relates to #12 in the description. it was at this point when i realized they were out of order, since I saw 15 and 17 beforehand

at 2:23 Xander shows up, along with the lyrics “if something is important, then it’ll break and disappear” which makes me heavily question how David actually feels about him. Beforehand, I figured that David was lying about looking up to Xander and was just saying that as a part of his whole fake persona, but I’m starting to question if he was telling the truth even maybe a little bit. this could be talking about something else, though, like Xander’s importance to figuring out the mastermind or something like that.

at 2:40 it shows this string of letters and numbers along with ‘correct’ at the top and ‘incorrect’ at the bottom. the note it relates to, 13, has a character that also means correct/positive

Throughout, there are many references to literature and the such, but one of the few that I recognized which was mentioned a few times: No Longer Human by Osamu Dazai (Speaking of, it’s an intensely interesting novel and I highly recommend checking it out and also researching some of the history behind the author)

Now, in the novel, the main character seems handsome and charismatic to others, but both he and the narrator of the beginning and end book describe him as inhuman, troubled, and disturbed. He is able to keep a facade when underneath, he feels intensely alienated from society and others. It does, honestly, remind me of David in some ways—people want to follow him because of his charisma, but in reality he is not who they think he is. I should probably leave this part short, since I could most likely write a whole thesis about No Longer Human, but there are a ton of parallels between Ōba Yōzō and David if you want to do more research into No Longer Human.

A few miscellaneous thoughts:

I have absolutely no clue what the various items at 2:56 relate to. My first idea was that certain items related to certain characters (Ex: the broken clock is eden’s, the hair clips, megaphone, and fan letters are David’s, and the portraits for the corresponding people) but I also think these items could all just relate to David in some way (If so, I find the materials for a noose and the serpent incredibly interesting)

It’s weird that Hu was included in the credits along with the other characters we might expect. I didn’t think David held much stock in their ‘friendship’ at all, but maybe it was more important than I originally thought?

I decided to not try and dissect the lyrics as I believe that would be better done by someone who has a better understanding of Japanese than I do

In total, I could find the pieces that relate to 1, 2, 7, 9, 12, and 15-21. I considered that the roman numerals could be the numbers in the description also, especially since note 10 mentions roman numerals, but I doubt it since there are numbers which double up as both normal and as roman numerals.

and last but not least, the morse code at the very end. It translates to:

“You still believed in me despite everything I’ve done. But that’s just fantasy, isn’t it? I simply chose to believe that you did. After all, I’m incapable of being someone without you.”

this took an hour to translate only for me to scroll down the comment section and see someone already had translated it :,)

ANYways this is really really interesting, even though it is very ambiguous. Is the speaker David? If so, who is he speaking to? If it is David, this leads me to believe that his “breakdown” might also be an act, and he might still truly care what other people think of him. It also brings up a lot of questions, like who is he speaking to??? fr i want to know. I just know this boy has Trauma and I want to Know It.

if you saw anything I missed or I made a mistake somewhere please tell me!! I wrote this from 1 to 4 am because Hyperfocus and i watched the video probably 5x over on .25 speed (not including repeating certain sections). I know there’s a lot of stuff I didn’t include, I probably didn’t because I wasn’t sure of the importance or I didn’t want to make this too long (failed on that goal but oh well), but if you have another perspective please share!

#drdt mv spoilers #drdt #drdt mv #drdt chapter 2 spoilers #david cheim #danganronpa despair time

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tomwambsgans · 8 months

Note

I don’t know if this has been discussed to death already since I wasn’t around when it first aired but… Nero didn’t give Sporus a ring. It was the other way around. Tradition dictated that the wife of the Emperor would present him with a ring at the feast of Calendas, so it was sort of the public confirmation of Sporus as Poppea brought back to life. Unless they meant a wedding ring?

ok first of all this is fucking insane

secondly i mean yeah tom was def referring to a wedding ring, which adds to the whole air of like. either tom is reading a book full of misinfo/historians postulating with dodgy sources, or he's just editorializing to fit his own life bc there's also nothing out there irl that suggests poppea's death was related to stairs. like that's tom's thing that he said bc he was kinning nero too hard and had au kin memories or something. so it makes sense that it's also tom's own idea, coming from his modern perspective of course, that nero would give sporus a wedding ring to symbolize the union. he's just emphasizing to greg in the moment that the characters that he's relating back to the two of them are capital M Married.

but also.. ok obviously nero and sporus's actual history is not a 1:1 and the real significance is what tom gets from the story, which is to say a mirror into his own life and a way to see himself in history and not feel afraid of his homosexuality bc he gets to look at it through a roman context, etc. it's how he bends it to communicate something to greg. but looking into it i found something pretty fucking interesting that i feel like i've never seen discussed either:

which is like... really just another point on how convoluted all these in-universe meta parallels are bc that feels like it could simultaneously be a shiv equivalent that's in some ways more accurate than poppea, since it actually happened before sporus, but also like a better greg equivalent than sporus? like if tom's relating roman history to himself didn't have to involve a wife dying, pythagoras might've been the allegory he brought up to greg instead. or maybe not bc it wouldn't have allowed tom to retain his masculinity in the situation.

idk but yeah this is crazy and i would also love to see some fic or art or something where sporus-greg gives tom a ring. but at the same time maybe i wouldn't since the real ring in question was not a romantic one. but maybe also that doesn't matter bc it's not like the irl nero and sporus were very romantic anyway and it's all about what they get from the story etc etc

#tomgreg #meta #anonymous

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brookheimer · 1 year

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other speculation about tonight's episode for those interested (aka throwing shit at the wall, seeing what sticks, etc. the usual. also i'm bolding the TL;DR stuff bc it's long):

jimenez lead, ATN/roys [do something], then mencken wins. (talked about this here)

connor splits the vote for a bit but eventually drops and endorses mencken

mencken agrees to block the deal, jimenez refuses to work with the roys. i feel like this is pretty clear already but i think it'll be made explicit. the election will be not just ab ideological issues but the company, obviously, and anti-deal anti-ideology roman just sees mencken as their best option and doesn't give a shit about any political beliefs, shiv is the least anti-deal of the three which helps her because she wants jimenez anyways bc she's the Liberal Good one (sure, shiv, sure), and ken is trapped in between the two. basically, roman pro-mencken, shiv pro-jimenez, kendall unsure (jimenez will not block mattson deal/work with kendall and mencken will, but ken's performative liberalism makes it difficult for him to back mencken). i think ken will end up backing mencken anyways because he cares far more about his own success than america's, and i also think he would justify it to himself by saying, like, 'look if i'm in charge at waystar i can make actual change, i can't do that if i'm not CEO, so i gotta back the person who will make that happen so that way i can help society' or whatever it is he tells himself lmao

there's gotta be something with shiv pregnancy. the two biggest threads left dangling rn are shiv pregnancy and kendall-sanctioned logan smear campaign, and i'd be v surprised if the latter doesn't make some sort of appearance in the funeral episode, and idk if they'd try to work in both those threads in the same hour when so much else is going on. i also don't think they'd mention the pregnancy in ep4 and never again until the finale which meaaans something happening with it this episode. idk if it means reveal or not (because frankly it will not be shiv's fucking focus rn lmao) but it's gotta come up somehow

honest to god no fucking clue what the shocking thing will be. i don't think it'll be the election outcome itself (either mencken or jimenez, both expected) so i feel like it has to be in either the way it plays out or some sort of roy-related reveal. something i can see happening, maybe, is some sort of ATN fuckup -- they call it too early, they send out false information, some minions get the wrong order, idk -- that they have to scramble to either fix or lean into. like, their action decides the election, but it was a fuckup. it could work, i think, because it would show how unstable american 'democracy' is -- it rests in the hands of people like the roys and companies like waystar and news media like ATN, and one mistake could quite literally decide the future of america. that's how unstable things are. idk, maybe an anchor misreads a prompter and says something that's taken as an incitement to violence, maybe a phone call cuts out and orders are misheard then followed, just something that shows how terrifyingly flimsy our entire political process actually is. again this is literally ALL JUST SPECULATION i have no fucking clue how things will play out i'm just trying to figure out how things could maybe go

i think the election will be a backdrop for other huge developments in roy family life but not to the extent that con's wedding was -- i think there are probably big things that happen that are unrelated to the election, but i do think it's going to be election focused, mostly just bc i would be kind of disappointed if it wasn't lmao. but seriously though succession is such a political show (even when it's not explicitly about politics) that i'd be very very surprised if they eschewed it entirely to focus on family matters, especially bc so much of succession is about the interrelation of familial abuse, capitalism, and political fascism. this episode is the perfect fucking storm for them all to come together.

rome/ken fight from the teaser possibly this ep? just looks like they're wearing the same clothes/in the same room based on the episode trailer. not sure though

again really don't know what the Shock will be. i can see a nailbiter but a Shocking Twist? we shall see...

#will update and post other thoughts if i have them but for now i need to go work on my finals #lmao #i know this is long and excessive but i've gotten like five asks today asking for it so this is for yall #TLDR: mencken win after rough start and ATN intervention. connor eventually endorses mencken. rome and (eventually) ken back mencken bc he #will block the mattson deal. shiv refuses to back mencken on moral principles (and also she's the least set on bombing the deal so there's #less of a conundrum for her). probably shiv pregnancy returns -- either a reveal (in the context of abortion bans under mencken? tbh idk #that feels a lil on the nose for me) or a mention of/reference to it. overall ATN/roys/etc are the deciding factor not votes/america #MAYBE: ATN has a fuckup that snowballs into deciding the election somehow. miscommunication or smth that has drastic consequences #could see that being a nailbiter/shocking thing/etc. that's just pure guessing though irdk #THOSE ARE MY PREDICTIONS FOR ALL WHO HAVE ASKED. IT'S 2:21 PM 5/14/23. I WILL CHECK BACK TONIGHT #really this is so ridiculous bc u can't predict succession but it's fun speculating and now it's become a Thing i do so. here we are #succession #succession spoilers #(except as always not really)#long post #succession speculation #ok im starting a tag for this lol

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childhoodtheme · 1 year

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i’mmmmmmmm thinking about

roman, shiv and connor all going up to their comatose father’s body one by one in s1e2 as they leave the hospital, caressing him, kissing him, nuzzling him, gentle and tender and loving. meanwhile kendall watches stiffly from afar, unable and apprehensive to express the same sort of love

cut to 3 seasons later—logan is dead and, in their final words to him:

roman struggles deeply with what to say and forgets to tell him he loves him

shiv repeats that she loves him but its interspersed with objections and confrontations and she sounds like she’s trying to convince herself

connor isn’t even there and even once he hears of his death he chooses not to be there he places physical distance between them because “he never even liked me”

and then there's kendall....s1 kendall who was so distant and distrusting of his father that even in that life and death situation he couldn't bring himself to kiss him goodnight for what could very well have been for the last time, he was that unsure of and unconfident in his love for logan. versus s4 kendall who spoke to his dying father with the most conviction of the siblings that he loves him and cannot forgive him and he loves him. and its a certainty born of the fact that, of all the kids, he was arguably the first one to confront their father's cruelty and abuse and so he's had the most time to deliberate where he stands in relation to him. but there's something about his assuredness on the phone call that feels so powerful to me because it's not just a certainty that he can't forgive his father, which would seem the most logical consequence of logan's abuse, but also the certainty that he loves him. he's sat with these conflicting feelings the longest and has arrived at the conclusion that to love and to not forgive his father can coexist within him. whereas it seems like shiv and roman were maybe only just starting to grapple with that internal dissonance (at least directly) in the past few episodes

i'm just word vomiting here idk if this means anything to anyone besides myself but i'm just thinking of a child's relationship to their abusive parent/s and how the progression of that always seems to go i love them -> i hate them -> i love them and i can never forgive them. like there's something about growing up that makes us realise sometimes we can accept our parents are cruel and accept that we can't forgive them whilst still loving them; these truths dont have to be in conflict with each other. and kendall has attained that understanding by mere 'advantage' of having a headstart along that line of progression, whereas roman and shiv are experiencing their first accelerations along that pipeline

#this is what i mean when i say kendall is so immigrant daughter coded #what do you mean you love your father but can't forgive him and you're a 44 year old white man #like sorry you're actually a brown immigrant eldest daughter #succession #talks #meta #kendall roy #jeremy strong #succession meta #succession hbo

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logically-asexual · 2 years

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i have a royalty AU in my head with kinda unsympathetic Remus that i’ve been thinking about for a few nights in a row. it’s a slightly different version from some idea i remember having posted here already.

and it’s that Roman and Remus are twins, Roman is the oldest by minutes so he’s the heir to the throne. everyone is always paying attention to Roman because he is the prince and Remus is constantly overlooked, even by his own family, which makes him super angry.

the two of them grow up with Logan because Logan’s parents are some kind of important people in the royal court or whatever so they have an agreement with the King and Queen that Logan would be educated with the tutors that teach the twins because they’re the best in the kingdom. so Logan practically or maybe actually lives in the castle and since he’s around the same age as Roman and Remus they spend a lot of time together.

they all get along fine but things get worse for Remus when he thinks that Logan prefers Roman over him (which he thinks mostly due to his own insecurity caused by everyone else treating Roman better, not because it’s true). so he gets super possessive over Logan and gets angry at Roman whenever he sees the two of them together. which starts many fights.

Remus also realizes he has a crush on Logan and wants to be with him at all times, but he’s convinced himself that Logan must like Roman instead. maybe Logan doesn’t like either of them romantically or maybe he does idk. all the options open nice opportunities for angst. like if Logan does like Roman but tries to hide it because he knows it’ll only cause trouble with Remus and he’s just yearning in silence for Roman. or Logan likes Remus but is scared of him when he gets angry so he avoids Remus more which makes Remus more angry. or Logan doesn’t like either and he’s put in a very uncomfortable position where he has to insist that he’s telling the truth but Remus won’t believe him.

anyway they grow up and the relationship only gets more tense on all directions. they’re not kids anymore and they can’t just play and ignore their problems. Remus gets sent somewhere else as Duke to look over some piece of land far away so he never sees the others, while Roman is preparing to become King. and Logan finished his studies, being the best of the three, and gets hired in the castle, of course, as an advisor for Roman.

now without the pressure of Remus off Logan and Roman become much closer and maybe they’re just friends or maybe they do develop feelings for each other, both are good. they keep growing up and one day Remus returns for whatever reason idk and he’s more resentful than ever. specially noticing how close the other two are and how happy they look without him.

so Remus picks fights with Roman and insults him constantly and also won’t let Logan have any personal space because Remus always around him, as if trying to keep him under vigilance. which sucks for Logan because he doesn’t know what to do. he doesn’t hate Remus nor is mad at him, he just misses being a child and how they all would get along, he hates that everything is so complicated now.

and ummm also my brain provides that Remus comes back because the King and Queen are looking for partners for Roman and Remus to marry, and having them both marry in the same season might be good for diplomatic relations with the families of the spouses or something. they can come to collective agreements and increase the size of the kingdom all at once.

so Remus interprets this as a fight over Logan’s hand. and maybe it is because Roman (with romantic feelings or platonic) would indeed like to have Logan by his side. but the parents decide to make Logan marry Remus because they do want him in the family but his education is too advanced so he can’t be with Roman, since the King can’t be overshadowed.

and uh more trouble ensues. i don’t know. that’s what i got. it’s 1am but im scheduling this for tomorrow instead lol.

#logan sanders #sanders sides #my au ideas (sasi)#remus sanders #roman sanders #logince #intrulogical #???

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