#mcu discourse

[hainethehero]

Steve Rogers Trauma: A TED TALK

Why is it that any kind of commentary/analysis on Steve Roger's trauma has to be met with comparisons to Bucky or Tony's trauma? Or most of the fanfics I read completely gloss over Steve's trauma?

Some of y'all legit do not care or are blind to Steve Roger's trauma throughout the Captain America & Avengers films and it shows. And this isn't hate to any fanfic writers but rather an observation of most stucky and stony fanfics which seem to minimize Steve's character & trauma in favour of highlighting their fave's. And of course it's fine that people want to write about Bucky or Tony or even Nat's trauma, but MOST TIMES* I've read these fics and they all have an intentional disregard for Steve's traumas.

And this speaks to the wider discourse around Tony, Bucky & Steve- the three characters most written about in mcu fanfics.

Because why is it that anytime I bring up Steve's PTSD or his illnesses or the hell he would've gone through pre-serum, people always HAVE to add in their 2cents about, "well yeah & Bucky went through worse." Like.???? No, I'm not talking about him.

I absolutely love Bucky and he's one of my favourite characters in both the comics and the MCU but, respectfully, this ain't about him.

I'm talking about Steve and his life. The crap he would've had to deal with both in public and at home. Especially the horrors both he and Sarah would've gone through because of Joseph Rogers who was a terrible person and an alcoholic who beat up on his wife and sickly kid.

And even post-serum when he's completely healthy and living in the future now, I'm still seeing popular narratives about "Yeah he's alive now & hasn't gone through half of what Bucky's endured over the past 70yrs." OR "He's had it easy compared to Bucky who was being tortured by HYDRA."

Um, no one's saying Bucky's treatment under HYDRA was a good thing??? But we're talking about Steve here, not Bucky?

And how he was literally frozen in a state of purgatory & how traumatic it would feel to be ripped out of it and then basically thrown to the new world on your ass without any kind of therapy or help. Most people make it seem like Steve was in a Sleeping Beauty kind of sleep and then woke up completely fine. And I will admit the MCU has been the main culprit of that narrative because they deleted so many scenes that humanized Steve Rogers, that now the gen pop thinks:

he's perfectly fine

has zero trauma

should complain about nothing

hasn't had it hard like Bucky or Tony

is a lesser hero because of all of the above

I recently had a convo with a friend & we were talking abt the scene in Avengers 1 when they were all at each other's throats. And they said that Tony was right about Steve being a laboratory experiment & everything special about him came out of a bottle. And I'm like... yeah nah, that's the lazy ass writing that Whedon perpetuated that now makes Steve one of the most misunderstood heroes & people in the MCU. Because he was special before the serum because of his consideration of others. He was special because not only did he hate bullies, but he also went out of his way to protect those that couldn't protect themselves KNOWING what that confrontation might cost him as a chronically sick person. Tony needed a whole ass arc about literally witnessing & living first hand what his weapons were doing to innocents like Yinsen & his people, to change his ways. Steve didn't have, nor did he need any of that to make him special. (AND BEFORE THE TONY STANS COME FOR ME, I LOVE TONY, HE'S LITERALLY ONE OF MY FAVES IN THE MARVEL COMICS & MCU) But this hatred for Steve is ridiculous.

And once again, it's the MCUs fault because they made Tony the ultimate hero of the Avengers at the expense of Steve Rogers' character. Him being able to prove he was "worthy" all along by lifting Thor's hammer was a cheap payoff in the end, much like the entirety of Endgame was. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk.

#steve rogers #captain america #james bucky barnes #bucky barnes #tony stark #iron man #the winter soldier #marvel mcu #mcu #joss whedon #pre serum steve #pre serum stucky #post serum steve #stucky #stony #fanfic #ao3 #mcu discourse #steve rogers discourse #steve rogers is innocent #he did nothing wrong

[therese-lokidottir]

Now to be clear I don't think every bad review is out of misogyny, but I definitely think gloating over The Marvels disappointment in the box office is really misogynistic. Like, I didn't even like She-Hulk ATL but I know every time see a thumbnail with Jen with the text M-She-U it is not someone worth listening to. It is just another sad fanboy with another regurgitated bad take.

These people are not mad at the pandering because it's shallow and ultimately regressive. They are mad that women and PoC are headlining movies. The actual quality of the product doesn't matter to them. It's why when stuff like Black Panther or Barbie does well and is well regarded, they either disappear back into the woodwork or try to claim it has the opposite message of what it has. They just want diverse things to fail and act like their right when they do.

I have a lot of issues with the MCU right now, but I take no schadenfreude in the Marvels failure because I knew what the reaction would be.

#asks #mcu discourse #the marvels

[kitcat992]

Rewatched Avengers 2012 last night.

Y'all remember when the MCU had sets with green screen instead of *just* green screen?

I never expected to rewatch this and have SO much fun with the practical effects (like Thor's old costume) and heavy use of practical sets that used CGI to enhance the realism, not create it entirely. It's truly the best campy, doesn't-take-itself-too-seriously experience.

Like, YES, there were green screen backgrounds in this movie — and BOY have they aged terribly (can't wait til Shitgame does the same and people stop drooling over it so much) But it was still *lively*, ya know? It still had character.

Okay yes that's a green screen background but on a SET. With PROPS.

Time went on and things turned into....

Barely a prop or set piece in sight. Costumes only, and you're lucky when they aren't CGIed too.

Listen if you like this stuff, do you boo.

But goddamn I wish we could get back the days of less green screen. It's fun.

#anti mcu #antimcu #anti green screen #avengers 2012 #avengers #anti endgame #mcu discourse

[doctorofmagic]

Why magic in the MCU has failed

I remember the "good" old days when Doctor Strange was about to debut back in 2016. I was obsessed with spotting every single little magic detail in the MCU in the hope that magic would slowly grow in status and importance, only to give up after so much disappointment.

But the major issue? The moment Feige stated that every side project was a part of the MCU. People who experienced phase 1 and 2 will remember that magic was a taboo. "It's just science we don't understand yet". While it's a common line quoted by Marvel's greatest geniuses, we all know it's pure arrogance on their part. Otherwise, they'd be doing what magic users do.

It was not MCU's case. Magic was INDEED treated as science. From Ghost Rider's portal being reproduced by a robot through the Darkhold to Wanda's powers being a product of an experiment but not explained at all. From a loooong season of Cloak and Dagger taking its time to finally introduce magic elements to Nico's staff almost falling to the same old "technology" trope. From whatever is happening in Asgard to Loki's limited magic. It's frustrating, but we'd still find a way to turn the tables, right? The Dark Dimension was introduced (twice?), the (third) Darkhold was finally attached to Chthon, Morgana and Lorelei debuted, Nico's powers were finally acknowledge as magic... So what happened?

My best guess? Structure.

There's no structure to define what is magic in the MCU. Doctor Strange (2016) tried. Really hard. And, although it got several things right, it failed in two fundamental aspects: pre-established comic book knowledge and magic deities.

Remember how we got three Darkholds? The first was just so detached from magic that it became a book used to create a VIRTUAL world in Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. The second was used by Morgan le Fey, but how was she associated with the Dark Dimension? Moreover, that was NOT the Dark Dimension from the first DS movie (or any comic book, really). Its last appearance, as seen in WandaVision and DSITMOM, finally mentioned Chthon, but it literally did NOTHING it was supposed to do. That MCU!Wanda has nothing to do with her 616 version, this is not new. But if we're going to use comic books as foundation to adapt a story, the very bare minimum you can do is do it right. Point is, the book does corrupt people, but it's because of Chthon's influence and his connection to Wanda. Where's Chthon in the movie? The corruption was badly explored and her journey towards evil and redemption doesn't make any sense from a magic point.

Now, the "main" magic cast in the MCU could have worked... Except that there's little to no information regarding how Kamar-Taj works as a temple/school for new sorcerers. And worse even, magic isn't connected to its deities. Sure, there were a few name drops, but does it explain where it comes from? And who chooses the next sorcerer supreme if the Vishanti isn't involved?

The truth is, magic was all over the place, and the creative minds were either too oblivious to the importance of learning about how magic works in comics (to the point of adapting a second Dark Dimension that has nothing to do with the original one) or too shy to introduce a magic hierarchy (as in, deities).

There's an actual attempt to create this structure now, but it's too late. Sure, you can ignore past tv shows, but the mess remains. Eternity was supposed to be an abstract entity, deeply connected to magic, cosmic aspects and life itself.

Loki is still so embarrassing because the very foundation of Asgardian mythos started wrong (and why is that? Because no magic, of course!). While I find funny that Stephen trapped Loki in an endless freefall, there's no way the god of stories would be humiliated like that. Loki being taught magic by his alts is infuriating (and it's, again, mostly illusions).

Remember when Stephen was beaten by math? That also happened.

This is the moment I completely give up to see magic portrayed at its fullest, in all its beauty and complexity. Because it's not treated the way it deserves. It has never been.

And here's my boldest take: if you really wish to see the full potential of magic in the MCU, go for What If. The price you pay, the cosmic proportion of being misused, the creative elements... It's all there. Which is sad because it's not the main timeline. Anyways, this is it.

PS: This post may age poorly as DS3 comes out in 20 years. Let's wait and see.

#ds3 being my only source of interest regarding magic bc agatha and loki are NOT it #i keep loosing #mcu #mcu discourse #analysis #magic

[imperiuswrecked]

“Shuri should forgive Namor because Namora is the one manipulating Namor to attack Wakanda”

Nah, this isn’t it.

Look I get Namor x Shuri shippers are having a Field Day, and go have all the fandom fun you want but don’t pull this fandom nonsense of blaming another woman for whatever reasons to excuse a character for the sake of a ship.

Namor isn’t a good guy, he’s literally an Anti-Hero.

Namor would have 100% gone after Wakanda whether Namora was there or not because that’s what Namor does, it’s what he’s always done, he is the protector of HIS people and it was TWO of his people who got hurt so he is going to go after who hurt them.

Namor wasn’t their enemy, he was gauging to see if they would choose to side with the surface or with Talokan, it’s why he never trusts them fully, why he had Attuma and Namora following close by ready to snatch Riri.

Nakia proves to him that they would rather kill Talokanil to save Riri (and by extension Shuri) so to Namor that meant they made their choice and he reacted.

Stop trying to say Shuri should forgive the man who was responsible for her mother’s death.

I literally don’t care if you all wanna ship them, but woobifying Namor and making Namora the villain is such a bullshit take.

#mcu namor #mcu namora #namor x shuri #mcu discourse #princess shuri #shuri #nakia #riri williams #black panther: wakanda forever #spoilers

[scavengerssuccotash]

God I miss the more grounded and realistic MCU, remember when shit mattered? Character arcs happened? The MCU that built upon the success of its past?

Good times.

*sighs and opens A03*

#thank god for fanfic #mcu critical #mcu discourse #phase five took a shit on all the previous phases and I’m just supposed to accept that because money machine go brrrrrrrr

[kahuna-burger]

Not to have some random late night Tony Stark Defense Squad discourse, but I've realized it's easier to let go of some of the more surreally bad takes when I remind myself that most of them really aren't about bashing Tony as much as protecting the basher's fave.

Obviously there are those who for whatever reason just absolutely hate the idea of Iron Man, or Tony Stark, or even RDJ and would find things to complain about if the larger MCU never existed. But imo, the majority of Tony hate comes from people whose faves have done shitty things to him, and in order for the fave to be a Good Guy, Tony has to be bad enough to deserve it.

#tony stark defense squad #tony stark #discourse #mcu discourse #fun with cognitive dissonance #might add more specific examples later #thinky thoughts

[marvels-meme]

Can we not say "If you didn't think The Marvels is good them you are sexist," please.

I am a feminist and don't think that The Marvels is objectively good. I have many, many criticisms about the film. I enjoyed the movie and can see why many people love it, but I can also see why people dislike it. Yes, The Marvels does have a large amount of sexism directed towards it. But simply disliking it does not make you sexist.

Activism is when you fight sexism and point out misogyny, not people who just don't like the film. Sexism is bigger and more complex than defending a marvel movie. Don't be an asshole, spread positivity, and engage and encourage healthy criticism about the films you like.

#discourse #marvels-meme #marvel #mcu #the marvels #marvel cinematic universe #the marvels (2023) #captain marvel #rant #discourse tw #mcu discourse #not a meme

[seek--rest]

While I'm not big on the MCU I agree that the hate is at this point insufferable. I watched a video critiquing Garth Ennis and The Boys comics that were way over the top than the TV show, and the guy said that "too much hate towards something can become just as annoying and intolerable as the thing it's making fun of" and I think that sums it up quite well

As a proud hater, I think having some level of critique towards a thing is not only good but necessary. Anyone who’s followed me for any length of time knows that I’ll talk shit about the MCU just as much as I talk about what I love. The MCU can be bad at times! There’s lots of choices I despise and will never shut up about.

However

There’s this distinct type of “critique” that reeks of faux intellectualism or remnants of r/iamverysmart which is so exasperating. Seeing people who used to love the MCU now making hating it / moving beyond it / liking “better” things now becoming their entire personality is hilariously stupid. Like oooh you hate the MCU now, congrats. Do you want a medal? Are you better than the rest of us now? Good job!

I don’t have the backbone of a chocolate eclair. People can talk endless shit about what I like and I won’t give a damn; I will still like what I like because I’m not that beholden to the whims and musings of strangers on the internet. What annoys me is this sense of superiority from fuckwads who wouldn’t know that these characters existed had it not been for the MCU AND/OR people who used to live the “depth, complexity, nuance, potential” of these characters only to now move onto different media and claim the MCU is and always has been trash.

There’s critique and there’s nuance of course but staking a claim of superiority on a movie franchise is exhausting.

#seek speaks #MCU #marvel #fandom discourse #MCU discourse

[werewolf-cuddles]

People keep saying that the MCU is dying. Guys, tell you what, when they stop making videogame movies and DC stop making movies, and musicals are gone, then I'll believe you. Until, chill, go watch something else. Literally anything else. Please, for your health.

"the MCU is dying"

yeah, right, I'll believe it when I see it

#mcu discourse #fandumb #hatedumb

[imposterogers]

moon knight is great in so many ways i wish i could love it but the jewish rep is so flawed, which like, it's marvel idk what i expected, but the fact they changed the source of his truama being rooted in antisemitic violence they went for the lazy and harmful overbearing and emotionally manipulative/abusive jewish mother trope. yes some jews have mothers like that and that experience is valid but when pretty much all jewish mothers are portrayed that way,,,,,

I just don't understand why marvel continues to take the "lazy" (aka either erasing jewish identies or perpetuating harmful stereotypes) route but the trend is concerning

#moon knight #mcu discourse #mcu #tw antisemitism

[alessandramortt]

Really wish the Peggy antis were just fucking honest with themselves, they're biased bc of some ships most of the time and the moment Peggy appeared they wanted nothing to do with her, either straight up ignoring her or just using her to prop their ship. Just.....just say you don't care, don't come up with incredibly cold takes about her character, that you've never cared to even begin to know. She's not a Nazi, she's not a bad person, she's not just a love interest holy fuck

#peggy carter #captain carter #cap peggy #the point is its FINE if you never connected with her enough to take an interest in her character #just dont go talking bs then #mcu #mcu discourse

[daisy-mooon]

I don't ship Namor and Shuri but I will never be able to take Nashuri antis seriously because they say it's a bad ship because "oh he killed her mother :(..." ... first of all, is the angst not part of the appeal? Second of all... you think that's a bad ship? Have you ever been on the fucking Internet??? Have you even fucking used Tumblr?????

Bitches be like "I don't support purity culture" and turn around and be like "You can't ship this because it's not pure"

#some of yall just hate fun huh #that being said do avoid racist stereotypes when writing ur fics cos some ppl have talked about that. no they arent ruining ur fun #mcu #marvel #namor #shuri #nashuri #namuri #nashuri discourse #namuri discourse #swearing tw #discourse #shipping discourse #I write fanfic shipping a demon who canonically mass murders gnomes and kidnaps people #with a gaslight gatekeep girlboss manwhore who owns dinosaurs. #if you think nashuri is bad you are WEAK #mcu discourse #marvel discourse

[kitcat992]

Civil War is what happens when TPTB have a desired outcome - breaking up the Avengers - and no character-faithful way for that to happen. And Endgame is what happens when the franchise reaches its logical conclusion but isn't allowed to conclude, hence the dissatisfying character endings needed in order to explain their absence in later installments.

I've always said that, while I absolutely despise Endgame more than any other content on this planet Earth, if they had made that the final movie of the MCU it woulda been an easier pill to swallow. But, like you said, annie...

Also, the further we get from Civil War and the less I see it as the Avenger's "breaking up" which is actually quite hysterical when you truly think about it. The whole event/narrative was supposed to be "Omg this one thing tears apart the Avengers and they'll never be a team again and it's so sad and disheartening and what will the world ever do without them!" But then I look back and see that the Avengers were never a fucking team to begin with. We were handed breadcrumbs and then they were swept away with Civil War. The MCU had potential, but it was never actually good. We all just fell in love with that potential and gaslit ourselves to believe what we imagined was actually canon.

I go to my comics for the real Avengers. The movies were the shitty generic store brand Avengers that have been sitting on the shelf for so long they've expired but management doesn't wanna take care of the issue because it "looks nice to have the shelves filled up"

Anyway.

(btw, since every time I make one of these posts someone comes along and asks me if I'm "leaving the fandom" - I've been anti MCU since Civil War. I love the characters, though. I always have. Because the MCU doesn't own the characters, Marvel does. Steve Rogers doesn't belong to the MCU, Tony Stark doesn't belong to the MCU, and Peter Parker sure as hell doesn't belong to the MCU because his shared custody with Sony is more public than Kim Kardashian-whogivesafucks ass. I like using the MCU characters in my stories and I like reading MCU fics with the characters because the actors did a damn good job with the shit they were given. You can like the characters belonging to a fandom and not like the canon content itself. Just a friendly reminder to everyone who loves to tell me "don't like it leave.")

#anti mcu #antimcu #mcu discourse

[imperiuswrecked]

Anti Namor fans never argue properly. never. they come in with the coldest takes, with stuff that’s been discussed for decades and is old news and want everyone to pat them on the back and tell them they are so smart for calling out the problematic writing that Namor suffered under and then when actual Namor fans say they are wrong they smugly go “but in these few comics he acts like a dick, a sexual predator, you just can’t accept your fave is bad, I am right because I’m so smart” and then we come up with actual in canon proof of things that actually happened and then they refuse to acknowledge it, they refuse to continue their little game of “I’m so smart” because they know they are caught out as being very wrong and stupid actually, so instead they move to “let’s agree to disagree uwu”. It’s always the same bad faith arguments and baseless out of context, badly written claims.

Why don’t they ever want to accurately and with in comic proof refute my claims? I know why, they want me to be on the defensive all the time, they don’t like it when I put that shoe on their foot, they don’t like that I can call out their bullshit. If they think I’m wrong then prove it. If you want to claim all characters go through badly written arcs then why won’t they ever accept it for Namor? Why does Magneto get a pass for all the stuff he’s done but not Namor? It’s because all they want is bad faith arguments.

#namor #comic discourse #mcu discourse #my ramblings #i've literally had this same argument for years #ive gone through this so much #and each time i'm either blocked by them #or I end up blocking them bc i dont wanna continue after they show they arent even listening #like usually i try to be chill and just go heres x and x but tonight i was upset bc fuck that

[mysticcollectionbee]

What If? Season 2 quick discussion poll

I wanna talk about What If? Season 2 but idk if I should do it while the episodes are coming out or afterwards. Because on the one hand, that means I don't have much time to thoroughly think about what I'm looking at but if I do it all at once, then I kinda don't get to make fun predictions or theories about the future episodes.

#marvel #mcu #what if? #season 2 #quick poll #mcu discourse