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gale-gentlepenguin · 9 months

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Gale’s Top Ten: Least favorite episodes of Miraculous Ladybug (as of season 5)

With Season 5 finished and my posting of my top 10 favorite episodes, it’s time I crank the meter the other way. Now some rules

1. Like always this is my personal opinion, and if you liked these episodes, that’s great. I would love to hear your reasoning

2. I will be judging them SOLELY of what was shown in the episode, not by any leaks that came out before or after. I’m solely judging on what is seen and confirmed

3. Word of warning, I will be pretty vicious with my critiques. Also profanities will be thrown.

Now before I go into them, I should give some congratulations to some episodes no longer in my bottom 10

Captain Hardrock: You are still a lame episode, but not the worst you are actually decent in comparison to some of these.

Stormy weather 2.0: Clip shows still are awful, but there are worst things

Frozer: In the grand scheme of things this episode really wasn’t important and there are worst character writing

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10.Sole Crusher

Revisiting this, it really isn’t a good episode for ML. I don’t know what was more Shoehorned in, Zoe’s character arc of replacing Chloé or the lucky charm.

It also makes little sense that Marinette would be the one pushing for Zoe considering her experience with Chloé and her family (especially after Season 5 revealed her trauma).

Now Zoe isn’t a bad character, but she will always be seen as the replacement Good bee, and she deserves better writing.

Honestly it could be argued Queen banana should be here, but that episode is too much of a s***post that I get more enjoyment out of it. This is trying to play this straight and it don’t feel right.

9. Qilin

This episode has a some things going for it, great akuma design, decent action. But it also has a ton going against it. It’s in a series of episodes I like to call “Thomas’ gets political” and I will tell you this, he sucks at it.

I would try and explain further but I am aware I would butcher the topic, all that should be said is, racism tackled poorly and Marinette says she will pay for a ticket that her mother didn’t deserve to get in the first place.

Also the animation looks off in the episode, it just looks so bleh.

8. Migration

Remember that whole reveal that Luka knows both Ladybug’s and chat noir’s identities and how he kept that to himself?

Well that FINALLY gets addressed. And are Ladybug and chat noir mad at him? No. No consequences for him.

The whole episode acts like he is such an important character but this is one of 2 episodes he’s in where he has more than 2 lines.

Then he gets to travel the world with his dad because monarch found out he knows.

Kagami got akumatized twice and she knew Ladybug’s identity, step up your game Luka.

Also the fake out with Rose was bulls*** and everyone knows it.

Also the entire episode had everyone but Luka lacking brain cells.

I don’t rank it lower because while it annoyed me greatly, there are worse offenders on the list.

7. Animaestro

Astruc complains for 22 minutes that nobody cares about him anymore.

Also Marinette teams up with her bully which after watching Derision, WOULD BE THE LAST thing she would do.

This is the worst example of the Creator calling out the audience, There are other episodes like this but this one is the least entertaining. And if the ending of season 5 is concerned. “I’ve seen your writing, so I can FUCKING CRITIQUE IT YOU ARROGANT PIECE OF…”

Okay, I’m calm. Point being. It’s his call out the critics episode and it sucks

6. Furious Fu

I HATE Su Han.

He is a worse version of Fu in every stretch of the imagination.

The episode where Su han shows up and starts making demands is stupid. The only thing he has going for him is his fighting style which he never teaches the two people that could have needed it!

The episode isn’t lower because despite Su Han’s impact, he really doesn’t do much and he is just there to be a nag later on. Also Fu’s akuma looks dope as hell and gave Fu some slack.

5. Feast

So remember how Su han showed up in the last episode. Well he and all the other guardians were gone for over 100 years because they lost to a 4 Foot blue dog made by a hungry child.

This episode isn’t as bad as the others as a stand alone, but knowing the lore makes it sound so completely stupid. Like Fu was HAUNTED by his past and we find out it was because he was hungry when training and the guardians COULDNT handle that? All trained to fight miraculous users should they go rogue, couldn’t beat ONE DOG. The mysterious order is incompetent as heck.

It’s just so stupid. Also Fu was acting irrational af over all this didn’t help.

4.Reflekdoll

I want everyone to know how massive this is, Reflekdoll is no longer my least favorite episode.

For anyone that follows me, my SEETHING hatred of this episode is well documented.

I won’t go on about how the tropes were horribly done or ignored, how off the banter was, or even how stupid everyone is this episode. Because I’ve discussed it in length.

I will simply say, Thank God there is Passion, so if people want a GOOD kwami swap episode they can watch that one.

3. Miracle Queen

I’ve talked about this episode to death on here. But really the only flaws with it are the last half of the episode.

The drama of the first half is great. But the ass pull of a memory wipe, the clear degradation of Chloé’s character, and just the simple giving up of Hawkmoth, he could have easily still won if he pushed a bit longer. The ending was depressing but also a clear example of how the writers put themselves in a corner with no way out.

The only thing that makes it worse is Fu’s replacement (Su han) ends up being a worse teacher.

Also considering how they spent season 4 quickly getting Marinette and Adrien out of the relationships with the love rivals, even they realize it was a dumb call.

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2. Ephemeral

Hey, let’s make an episode to explain why Adrien can NEVER know his father is the villain.

This episode is the go to justification of the writers on why Adrien will always be sidelined. It was also the unofficial reveal of the sentimonster theory before it was said pretty much outright in season 5.

The worst akuma design. Marinette gaslighting, gate keeping chat noir at its worst.

Gabriel wins and gets his wish.

And none of it mattered and no one remembers it except I think Sass. So it was pretty much pointless.

Not even the ladrien and cute reveal could save it.

And don’t even get me started on how pointless and avoidable it is.

It’s almost funny because despite how pointless this was, it’s still better than number 1.

1. Re-creation

So many cool concepts, great designs. Marinette dropping a piano on Gabriel. So many great things. But it also had some flaws, like having Adrien sidelined, and the focus on heroes from the specials for practically no reason. But all of that could be forgivable if the ending lands…

It really shows how an AWFUL ending can fuck up everything.

Imagine having 5 seasons of fighting to stop a villain from getting the miraculous to make the wish only for him to WIN! Yes he wins. He gets to make the wish, you know the wish that was said should NEVER be used. Of all the stupid, asinine, Shark Jumping BULL SHIT. Who the fuck APPROVED THIS HORSE SHIT?!

So he gets his wish, and he gets a statue HONORING HIM. What the fuck? Adrien, who was ABUSED now sees his abuser as a hero and EVERYONE THAT KNOWS THE TRUTH IN HIS LIFE IS HIDING THE TRUTH FROM HIM. Nathalie, Marinette, Felix, Kagami. Even PLAGG!

And the whole utopia crap, everything is just perfect now, because the villain got what he wanted.

That’s a great lessons for kids! (Blatant Sarcasm)

But let’s really dig in, the ending left a LOT of things vague. And hilariously ALL OF THE POTENTIAL OUTCOMES ARE SHIT.

1. Emilie was revived and Nathalie got healed.

So Gabriel gets everything he wanted from the wish, justifying everything he did and he gets treated like a hero and another person hiding the truth from Adrien. Marinette knows everything that brought this about and is keeping that from Adrien, but is justified slightly because it could encourage Adrien to try and get his father back with a wish. Also brings up the question of who took Emile’s place.

2. Only Nathalie was healed.

Gabriel ended up with Emilie like he wanted, gets treated like a martyr, Adrien is technically an orphan, Marinette is knowingly lying to him about his father and Adrien continues to get Gaslit.

3. Emilie is revived, Nathalie is healed, and memories were altered

Gabriel’s wish basically shaped EVERYTHING how he wanted, meaning he is still in control of Adrien’s life even in death. Even his own wife. So while this removes Marinette covering for him intentionally, it just means Gabriel was so much worse.

4. Nathalie’s healed and memories altered

Gabriel gets to be with Emile and has shaped Adrien’s life even in death. Everyone basically puppeteer by him as he died. Sure he’s dead but he also retconned for his redemption, which is bullshit.

Now there are people that defend this ending/potential ending.

I’m sorry but, unless they revive Gabriel and he gets exposed, Adrien finds out the truth, and he gets held accountable for his actions. I can’t feasibly imagine this ending being good.

The writing staff aren’t going to do Anything about this, they are just going to move on to Lila as the main villain and say the Agreste plotline is over.

If they Do, do something, I’ll happily take back my words and alter my view of the episode but right now.

It’s one of the WORST season finale’s I’ve seen in my life.

#miraculous ladybug #ml #ml critical #ml writer salt #Gale rants #Gale’s top 10 #ml spoilers

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tenebraevesper · 9 days

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If you could remove one character from Miraculous Ladybug, which one would it be?

Oh, boy... everyone I guess? X3

Okay, but seriously now, there are characters who just feel pointless or tacked on (looking at you Lila and Zoé), or even outright creeps (André gunning after two teenagers because they're not following his OTP just freaks me out), and I had been saying how by the end of MLB, everyone feels like they could be replaced with a cardboard cutout because they feel so one dimensional and contribute almost nothing to the plot (besides Félix). I know that, if this show had been written by competent writers, the characters could actually have some meaning and/or importance, but the way it is now, it would be better to reboot the show with a different cast.

#Ten's Thoughts #ml salt #ml writer salt #mlb #miraculous ladybug

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sophieabigail2021 · 1 year

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The writers:Marinette's creepy obsession towards her crush is caused by her trauma thanks to Evil Chloe,so you should take it seriously

Also the writers:*Make this obsession into a running gag*

#ml salt #ml writer salt

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ilikekidsshows · 8 months

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It just boggles the mind how petty someone can be over a fictional character that they created being popular. Thomas Astruc is ruining his own show and screwing over abuse victims all for a grudge against fans who prefer a character he doesn't. I don't condone hate-mobbing him like some people do on Twitter, but he really can't take any sort of criticism huh. How do you claim to have conferred with a child psychologist (I think) and still produce this literal abuse apologia. I genuinely don't understand.

I'm gonna say that Astruc taking any chance to use the narrative to dunk on Chloé and Adrien being evidence of him holding a grudge against their popularity is my personal interpretation of possible influences for their writing. I have inferred it from Astruc's very curt way of speaking to fans of these characters on twitter and the show's abysmal writing of them in ways that prop Marinette up on their backs. None of it has been proven true, but, when the coincidences keep piling up, at some point you're gonna stop believing it's a coincidence. At this point, he is most likely at least subconsciously bitter over Chloé and Adrien, if not consciously so.

Just like how the show's biases concerning abuse might be subconscious stuff going on in the crew's heads. I remember when @infinitysgrace and I used to have to reiterate again and again that Gabriel does love Adrien even if he abuses him, that's often the tragedy of parental abuse, when the fandom kept insisting that Gabriel abusing Adrien was evidence that he didn't really love him. The crew also seems to have a very limited view of what "counts" as child abuse. Apparently isolation, neglect, abandonment and consistently referring to your child by the wrong name don't count as abuse, because all the kids involved got to eat, didn't get beaten and are loved by the people harming them.

I agree that it's very obvious that Astruc can't handle criticism and that mobbing him or harassing him isn't the solution. Astruc has a right to act like an entitled jackass even publically online, just like any other creator or random person. I instantly side eye anyone trying to turn me against someone based on only the accusations that they're deleting negative comments and blocking people giving negative feedback. The fans might be entitled to their opinion, but they are not entitled to a creator's time and attention.

I'm also going to say that, just like I don't read highly personal vent fics, I'm not going to watch vent shows. I stopped paying any attention to Teen Titans Go after they started dedicating several episodes to mocking fans of the original TT cartoon (after their show piggybacked on the fame of said show by mimicking the character designs and using the same voice cast no less). I'm very much done with paying Thomas Astruc's increasingly inane ramblings any attention. It's pretty obvious that social media is influencing his creative process negatively but it's his right to engage with a space that affects him like that. None of us are his friends, family or doctor. It's none of our business what he does.

I haven't heard of the writers consulting any experts on anything dealing with the show, but I do know for a fact that Astruc tweeted a link to a fan's essay on Adrien that was written by someone claiming to be a child psychologist. Said fan praised Adrien's writing and then went on to praise the Sentipeople concept. Since I make it a habit to never actually be the one that starts shit, I never really engaged with their content and blocked them instead, so I can't remember the details of what they said about the psychological perspective on Sentipeople.

Still, I'm 80% sure this is the supposed expert. Regardless, even if this fan wrote essays with 100% accurate real life psychology, child psychology has no one size fits all approach. I, an ECEC professional, sure as hell didn't agree with anything they had to say about SentiAdrien before I blocked them, and that was before canon confirmed the theory in the worst possible way and screwed over abuse victims.

#ml salt #ml writer salt #ml fandom salt

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miraculermarinette · 5 months

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Why are you neutral on Chloe?

Mostly bcoz I dont have much strong feelings for her (not anymore atleast) and it's mostly the writing I am critical of since the writers are the one who messed her character up. Even though I get annoyed by a few things she does I also know that any normal teenage girl would never act that way and the only reason she is like that is bcoz of horrible writing.

#thanks for the ask #anon #ml salt #miraculous ladybug #ml writer salt #chloe

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how-miraculous · 2 years

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The fact that some ml fans are acting like salters just don't understand what La Bise is when they critique the "comedy" scene in Multiplication gives me such a headache.

They most certainly know that the cheek kiss is considered a perfectly friendly gesture in France; it's a well-known aspect of French culture. Even if they didn't, the show itself has used La Bise at least twice, most notably with Chloe and Marinette. They would have learned by then.

While La Bise in-of-itself is perfectly friendly, it is clear in the scene that Adrien intends it to be flirty, or at least sweet and romantic. Notice how he doesn't greet Nino or Alya with La Bise, just Marinette, his new person of interest. It's romantic in nature to him, meaning he is trying to kiss her romantically without her consent.

Even if it was perfectly friendly on his part, that still doesn't mean he should have done it. Think of it this way: if you walked up to a friend and attempted to hug them, and their immediate reaction was to back up away from you, looking distressed, would you try to keep hugging them? Or would you stop and ask what's wrong? Furthermore, if you attempted to hug them, and your mutual friend pinned your friend's arms down so that they could not get away from you, would you not find that weird?

The point is, the writers did a bad job of writing this scene.

It's not funny or cute that Marinette was kept still while someone tried to touch her without her consent, it's weird. It's not a good sign if a love interest can't understand that their crush is upset by what they're doing.

There are other ways to write comedy that don't involve making the MC deeply uncomfortable with their love interest's actions.

#ml #ml salt #ml writer salt #it astounds me how uncomfortable the writers can make the romantic scenes in this show #how hard is it to write scenes that show the love interests are happy interacting together?#that's the barest prerequisite for a relationship to function #but ml is so focused on humiliating marinette for cringe comedy #they dont show how she and adrien actually work as normal people

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dragonbugsuperior · 9 months

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… I’m sorry but I’m struggling to remember when Adrien invaded Mari’s space, I’m not saying you’re wrong just that I can’t remember

As Chat Noir he does it all the time.

And for the reason he knows he can't be punished for it bc no one knows its him

In Stoneheart/Origins, he’s literally still defending Chloe, despite seeing first-hand how she treats the people around her. And he continues to defend her for three seasons straight. In Despair Bear, when he’s supposedly “holding her accountable” he literally laughs when she makes Mylene and Rose cry at the end of the episode

In Stormy Weather he’s literally just standing there taunting the Akuma, further provoking it. And then when Marientte helps him off the ground, he grabs her hand and kisses it, even though he knows he doesn’t have consent. In Bubbler, he’s literally willingly allowing all of his classmates to be held hostage by an Akuma, and only gets his act together to save them once it stops being fun for him.

Here are some links to my posts calling it out.

https://www.tumblr.com/dragonbugsuperior/649678977952366592/adriens-manipulation-and-how-he-manipulates?source=share

https://www.tumblr.com/dragonbugsuperior/648671894848028672/thomas-is-a-racist-misogynistic-sexist-predator?source=share

https://www.tumblr.com/dragonbugsuperior/648365394556502016/thought-would-if-marinette-were-a?source=share

And when he's not sexually harassing her as Ladybug he's manipulating her as Marinette in forms of guilt tripping and etc.

#marinette dupain cheng #miraculous ladybug #adrien agreste #adrien salt #marinette deserves better #canceladrienagreste #cancelmiraculous #ml writer salt

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jennycinco-5 · 1 year

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Miraculous Writer : Who cares about “Bad Redemption “ and Inconsistency as long as Fans will pay attention on “Love Square” riiiiiight~

I know that lot of you will said “ You just too salty ! “ “ Oh ! This just Kids show ! “ “Ooooh~ This cartoon is about silly-teenage romance” “This cartoon is about L O V E “ etc etc etc

WHO CARES ! I already abandon the Canon!ML before the leaks comes out everywhere

After I check all the leaks I would like to said “ WHAT THE FUCK “ and “ I’m glad finally I no longer care about this show ! “. Because I can see Season 5 is a HUGE MESS and beyond the redemption !

As much as I hate how BLEACH Ended due to how rushed the ending and the pairing, At least its still manage to be better and satisfying ! Despite no fans like Newest Gundam series (The Witch from Mercury) and claim to be a “full of yuri or silly school drama series in mecha”, G-WITCH still manage to be a good Gundam series and restrain its dark and heavy element . This why Suletta still acceptable as MC by many Gundam fans beside being adorable clumsy and ditzy girl instead of edgy girl

Miraculous ? Its a HUGE MESS and will never satisfying !

Why ?

It’s all about inconsistency and dumb ways to “redeem the character”. ML clearly has no idea what kind a theme about the show ! It’s about Shojo-esque cartoon ? No ! It’s about superhero ? No ! It’s about LOVEEEEE~ and Hardship of being teenager ? Turning Red handle it BETTER than this shit ! It’s about girls power ? The MC constantly being punch sack for writer with their un-funny comedy moment, Most of Male antagonist is paint as “Misunderstood person” and constantly give a “redemption” while female antagonist are paint as “Pure evil Bitch” who deserve no redemption.

I like to said THREE MALAYSIAN SUPERHERO CARTOON is better handle on female character in both Protagonist and Antagonist side while the show is still aimed for young boys rather than a so-called “girls power” cartoon like Miraculous

Of course ML writer cares nothing about this as long as Fans pay attention on Love-scareSquare Riiiiiggght~

Aside from inconsistency, the WORST part about ML is about poorly handle a character especially about Redemption. Its seems that from That Guy logic, Redemption means that you will full blown into a new leaf as a “super duper nice character” without any progression as long as they have “tragic backstory” so they can pity on them.

In reality, redemption of the character is need a progression and not all of them will be become a new leaf as a “super duper nice character” in instant way. They could become a anti-hero at their best or still restrain their arrogant side and still have problem or struggle during their redemption quest such as many character would not forgive them or always remember their worst attitude before redemption happens

Aside Zuko, there are lot of character have good redemption such as Ken Ichijouji, Peridot, Karone/Astronema and Ashi. Special mention Anime (especially shoujo anime) have lot of character who good on handling on the antagonist or an arrogant character by give them a good depth or redemption than Miraculous

Miraculous see “redemption” and “character depth” nothing more than for “Please feel pity on them ! “ instead of to humanized the character itself especially in Antagonist side. This is ANOTHER biggest problem in Miraculous :

Gabriel “redemption equal to death” and Felix “Redemption for luv” are MEH and very insulting for other main antagonist who undergoes real redemption

I know that lots of pro will said “Its GLOOB Fault because they didn’t want Brazilian kids reminder about their parents in jail so they push poor astruc to change the ending~” to defend this shit. Being kIds show doesn’t mean who have an excuse about why your show is bad for handling the Big Bad of the show

So according to Leaks, Gabriel while dying is begs to Marinette to keep his secret from Adrien and is remembered as a hero and “good father” for Adrien despite of his emotional abuse and the isolation on him for 14 years and the terror that his spread on Paris for a shake of “My Wife and luvely Son UwU” . Meaning that he is free from any serious consequence of his action despite of his death.

Then we have Felix who according to Leaks suddenly simping on Kagami just because she is a Senti “just like him” and Kagami just accept him because he looks like her ex despite what already he done before to Marinette and Parisian in many previous episodes. No consequence or guilt of his previous action because Kagami defense him and the narrative paint him as “misunderstood baby~”.

That’s not a redemption ! That’s a Karma Houdini ! Neither Gabriel or Felix show a real remorse of their malice action and then Writer suddenly give them a “Redemption” because they want make Lila as big-bad since this is a “Girls Power” show which mean they need a female evil big-bad

If you want a give a Big-Bad a redemption either is resulting their death or being humiliated during their redemption quest to show how redemption is not an easy process and sometime they have struggle to do it.

You want to know where is a kids who is good on handling Big Bad Redemption

Here Ken Ichijouji a.k.a Digimon Kaiser a.k.a Ex-Big Bad of half season of Digimon Adventure 2

Initially a lonely prodigy boy who constantly being ignore by his parents due to their favoritism over his older brother. As Digimon Kaiser, he enslaved and corrupt many digimon, all because of his arrogance. After realizing that his bad deed is not a toys since he know Digimon are not mere a data but a living creature with emotion thanks to Wormmon sacrifice, he return back as Ken with full of guilt of his action as Digimon Kaiser.

Despite he already forgiven by Daisuke and the other chosen children and is allow to improved himself as better person, some of Digimon still unable to accept his apology. See the gif above, he still unable to move on from the guilt even imagine himself being tortured to death by the other digimon. And this is comes from a 10-11 years old antagonist who used to have inferiority-complex with his older brother! Not a full grown man antagonist. And Digimon is a freaking kids show who not shy to show a children have a immense guilt about their action

And Here we have Impmon/Beelzemon from Digimon Tamers

A trouble maker digimon who always picking on human due to “not being respected by them” after see the toddler constantly argue to be his partner. He Become Beelzemon after being persuade by Caturamon and resulting on him become a power-hungry antagonist who would kill any digimon to strengthen his power

After killing Leomon in front of his poor partner (Juri Katou) and the other Tamers, he surprised and shaken to see instead of hate on him, Juri pitying on him and begged Dukemon to stop killing him due to feel guilt and didn’t want to see her allies losing someone anymore. Resutling on him feel guilt and ashamed. Despite his attempt to save Juri from D-REAPER, he always being brutally beaten by the villains. But is still his redemption being memorable by majority of fans

Digimon is a kids show just like Miraculous. But they are not shy to show any heavy or dark content to make the show become complex and those element actually give some character a meaning development

Here Miraculous give a heavy or dark content nothing more than fanservice and never meaningful for the show

Gabriel is NOT a “sympathetic gray antagonist”

The show desperately try hard to make Gabriel as “Sympathetic” despite of what already he done toward his own Son and Parisian just because he being Hawkmoth “for sake of his family UwU~”

Sure there is nothing wrong to Humanized a villain . At least show it that the depth are genuine not a manipulation. Here they didn’t show how Gabriel truly bad about his action or his genuine attempted to be closer with Adrien because he truly love him not because of try to gain a control over his son. Most of Gabriel “kindness” toward Adrien are nothing but a manipulation

Disney has PLENTY a MC parents who portray as misunderstood. But I think Ming Lee from Turning Red to be mention of this section

Ming Lee is a realistically portray of “Tiger Parents” and lot of better than Tomoe Tsurugi who nothing more than a caricature of “Tiger Parents”. She is not a villain or Abusive mother of course, but her conflict with Mei is lot of interesting compare to Gabriel-Adrien. Although we can see her reason of her controlling behavior because of her mother, but the narrative didn’t desperate made fans to “feel sorry” about her like how ML do with Gabemoth and she still receive of consequence to pay a compensation of what already she done at SkyDome as Pandakaiju

Here in Miraculous, Gabriel didn’t receive of any serious consequences of his action as a villain or a abusive father because they didn’t want to “break Adrien little heart” and is hailed as hero and receive a statue

Male jerks or antagonist are more redeemable than Female

Aside from the Gabriel and Felix, a character like Alec, Rolland Dupain , the Ice Cream man, Mayor Bourgeois, even Jagged Stone as “misunderstood character” who deserve to be “redeem” despite the horrid things they done to them such as mocking a interviewee in front of TV Show, a racist grandfather, creepy shipper who like to meddling teenagers love-live, a major enabler of spoiled brat and abandon his children for 16 years

Meanwhile

A two spoiled brat teenager are are painted as “more monstrous than a grown-up man who is a abusive father and terrorist”, and two jerk mothers like Tomoe and Audrey as heartless bitch who don’t deserve to be humanized

Are you sure this show can be redeem ?

#ml salt #ml critical #ml writer salt #FUCK THIS SHOW #THIS IS A MESS #ml sexism #bad writing

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twin-books · 2 years

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Adrien!

This is an ask directly related to this and I'm finally here to answer it. Or at least part of it. Tagging @non-canon-central because they also asked for Adrien but I was unable to get to him at the time. For some reason Tumblr doesn't want me actually tagging them I guess, so hopefully this freaking works??? So let's make one thing pretty clear; I don't hate Adrien but I do hate his character. That sounds like an oxymoron, I am aware. The best way I can describe this is, it's like the opposite of liking a villain's character but fundamentally hating them as a person. Like I love the idea of Adrien. I think he has plenty of fun potential and it wouldn't take much to make him more intriguing but I just hate how he's written. I'm sure that comes as a shock to absolutely no one. I say this about almost every Miraculous character. I wanted to clear this up because a lot of people seem to believe that if you talk bad about a character, and it isn't some kind of joke, that you just hate that character entirely. This isn't the case with me. Now I mentioned a while back that the only way I believe I could ever hope to explain my frustration with Adrien's character is by comparing him to other similar characters or similar character arcs. My goal is to compare him to a few characters. I tried to keep it to characters within his age range but there are one or two on here that are adults (though I would be referencing a lot of their childhood for at least one). Since I will be comparing Adrien to these characters this means spoilers will be very hard to avoid so I'm just going to warn you now. If you don't want spoilers for the following I suggest looking into these things yourself; Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic the Hedgehog Archie comics, Sonic Universe Archie comics, Sonic the Hedgehog IDW comics, Mr Love: Queen's Choice the Gavin and Kiro story arc, Koi to Producer: Evol X Love the Mr Love: Queen's Choice anime, Ben 10: Alien Force, Ben 10: Omniverse, and Miraculous Ladybug. I was initially going to include Raven Saga from Webtoon but decided against it since it's not nearly a big enough franchise as compared to the others and the author would most definitely not benefit from it. I highly recommend reading it and then you can guess what character in there I found similarities to Adrien in but was just actively done better. I will most likely be splitting this into parts just to make it an easier read. Part 1: Mr Love: Queen's Choice and/or Koi to Producer: Evol X Love - Kiro (Helios)

One of the reasons I believe Mr Love: Queen's Choice's characters are comparable examples to Adrien (despite all the characters presented are adults through most of the story) is because it is an otome game, which means its primary focus is romance much like Miraculous. But also, much like Miraculous, it involves high actions scenes and beings with superpowers. It balances these things quite well whereas Miraculous (in my opinion) does not. And unlike Miraculous, it presents itself as a romance first and foremost, making it clear where their primary focus is whereas Miraculous doesn't really do that. In fact, most of its marketing is pointing at girl power. At least MLQC knows what it's about. Since MLQC knows exactly what it's about it may not come as a shock at all to you that they know exactly what their characters are. And there are two characters in this game that share quite a few similarities to Adrien. However a main difference is that both characters have a clear direction their headed towards but Adrien doesn't.

So let's talk about Kiro (Helios). This is the character I know the least as compared to the others. Most of what I have learned about him I got from the anime which I have learned is not entirely accurate but I will be referencing most of that (sorry die-hard MLQC fans, I am a very slow reader) as well as some scenes from the game.

Who is Kiro, exactly? And who the heck is Helios? Let's define him. Kiro is a mega popular popstar (so popular that girls practically fall at his feet) with a love for junk food and sweets (despite his agent forbids him from eating them). He's musically gifted, being able to pick up and play any instrument after a very short period of trial and error. He is also known to moonlight as a movie actor and a model. He's got a child-like wonder to him and a huge appreciation for superheroes, specifically ones without powers (Batmen, for instance). He shows affection and comfort through cute gestures and physical touch. He's, in essence, a big teddy bear. He's such a teddy bear that the narrative often compares him to one. This perfect teddy bear like nature is easily comparable to Adrien's perfect sunshine character. They both are hugely popular and beloved by their fans. They both show incredible talent, able to take on many tasks given to them such as modeling, acting, and instrument playing with ease. They both show comfort and affection through cute gestures (though Adrien's can be more grandiose) and physical touch. Pretty similar, right? Here's the massive difference; Kiro has flaws. Kiro has secrets. There are things he actively keeps from the MC and behavior one wouldn't associate with his supposedly perfect teddy bear likeness. There's actually a narrative reason why Kiro is presented to be so perfect. There's a reason why it's shoved in your face. We're gonna get into huge spoiler territory here for Kiro. This is your only warning.

Kiro is secretly a vigilante code-named Key (a name passed down to him by his father figure that taught him everything he knows). Key is an expert hacker. Able to hack through almost anything. There's very few things he cannot bypass. He likes to think of himself as a hero and loves to play the hero role (much like how Adrien took to Chat Noir so comfortably). Kiro prefers to use his own wits and hacking skills rather than his evol. That's right, he has evol, which in MLQC is the equivalent to superpowers. His evol is absolute charm. This was actually not fully a secret to us, the reader, but it's a shock to MC. It's heavily implied that Kiro used this power almost unintentionally purely because he's selfish. He longs for people to love him and his power responds to his wants. It's implied he's not aware how much he may use it but it could only be at his concerts. In fact, Kiro may have only been made aware of it when evolvers control over their evol was lost due to tampering with, I believe, electro-magnetic waves. Where, at one of his concerts, his fans began to tear each other apart to prove they loved him more. This is such a shock to him he quits being a popstar immediately because he can't bare the idea he caused that, even if it wasn't his fault he lost control. Now here's the really annoying thing about Adrien; I could totally believe he secretly has absolute charm with the way people just fall in love with him and he's just totally unaware of it but the problem is it's also pretty clear Adrien doesn't even want the attention he gets. And despite how obvious he makes that people blatantly choose to ignore it. This includes Kagami, Chloe, Wayhem, and nearly the entire class! He's not trying to hide it guys! It's pretty obvious he's unhappy with it! What is the purpose of this? To show he's so unfairly treated? How none of this is his fault? He couldn't possibly be unintentionally feeding into some of this because he's perfect and that would be too interesting of an idea. /s Ah, yeah, but I guess it ain't totally obvious because he's totally cool with Ladybug and his best friends giving him that same attention (except in season 4 I guess). Double standards much? What the freak do you want, Adrien?

But let's get back to Kiro because we aren't near done yet. Now here's a fun thing, Kiro actually possesses another evol. This evol he tends to refuse to use unless he has to. It is revealed to us and to MC at the same time. It's important to note that neither of us were aware of it until he had absolutely no choice. I'm gonna try to explain this without giving away too many spoilers because this game is awesome; Kiro refuses to use this power probably because it goes against what being a hero means to him. I should also mention that over using evol can be harmful and even deadly to the evolver. This is also why Kiro probably only ever used absolute charm. Keeping this all in mind, Kiro only decides to use it when he and MC are being chased by the bad guys and there's no way to escape. He has to painfully make the choice to use it on her when they reach the door to the heart of the issue which buys her some time while he fends them off. He risks her hating him just to buy her time so she can destroy the machine and save everyone. He also risks dying due to the sudden amplification of evol power. This self-sacrificing may slightly remind you of Chat Noir but the main difference being... Kiro actually had a reason. There is only about 2 or 3 times Chat Noir's sacrifices had ever made sense in the narrative and were presented as possibly the only action to take in that moment. I cannot stress enough to you how horrifying it is that almost every time Chat Noir self-sacrifices there are clear other avenues they could take and yet he immediately just jumps to the extreme. It makes you think Adrien just wants to die but something as serious as that is never at all focused on beyond one small comment from Ladybug in Lies! For Kiro there was no other option. If they entered the room together they would almost certainly be caught and since in this world they use guns, MC or himself could be dead before he ever got the chance to use his powers. And because MC effectively believes him to be dead after this Kiro takes on a new identity. An identity that isn't the perfect cuddly teddy bear Kiro or the heroic Key but rather someone akin to an anti-hero. Kiro becomes Helios; a cold, methodical man not afraid to use guns and his own power against the enemy. Helios even tricks MC into believing that he has no idea who Kiro is. He actively tricks her just to preserve her good memories of Kiro because there's no way MC could like this cold man, there's no way she could like who he really is. And he does state this a few times, that Helios is the real him even though he seems to almost fear this side of himself. It is MC who had to help him learn to connect Kiro and Helios and to not separate himself. He is Kiro and Helios.

This could almost be compared to Adrien's relationship to Chat Noir. Expect, rather than fearing this other side, he actively chooses Chat Noir over Adrien in most instances. He actively believes Chat Noir to be his true self and does not respond well to being turned away as Chat. This could be interesting and a great way to cause, not only outside conflict, but inner conflict. But this is not even explored. One could argue Kuro Neko did it explore it. But it really didn't. Instead of focusing on who Chat Noir is it, instead, chose to focus on how much Chat Noir loves Ladybug and how she needs him there for... no reason? No, seriously. They give absolutely no good arguments as to why she shouldn't just keep Catwalker around. The one good argument they possibly had they didn't even use. And that was that he freaking distracts her. No, instead their argument here is that he's "too perfect", whatever that freaking means. Excuse me? I believe, since your whole city is at freaking risk, that's exactly the kind of individual you'd want for the job. Never mind you want Chat Noir back for your own personal reasons (whatever those are because they do a very poor job communicating it). Why the freak would anyone turn away someone that's "too perfect"? The only reason I can think of is if she's suspicious of him but she so obviously isn't. They don't even try to explain why Adrien should even keep Chat Noir around if he's apparently only argumentive, not taking anything seriously, and effectively just another member of the team based on the visuals alone. The only thing keeping Chat around is cataclysm. That is it. And that's such a weak argument to stand on when literally anyone else could wear that ring. But no, that can't happen because we have to keep the status quo, I guess. That Ladybug is awesome and Chat is there to just make us laugh and give her an inspiring speech every season finale.

You know what's great about Kiro and Helios? That the narrative doesn't demonize Helios like Kiro does. It goes out of its way to show you how Helios is just as important as Kiro!

I don't get why it's so hard to just show that Chat Noir is just as important to Ladybug as Adrien without having to reference cataclysm or that it's because he's Adrien. How about it's because he's Adrien and Chat Noir? Why are the writers so afraid to merge these two together as if they aren't the same person. Heck, you even have one episode where you do just that but it's a what if episode so it's therefore non-consequential! And I hated Ephemeral but at least it bothered to do that despite pretty much every other episode tackling a similar issue absolutely refusing to do so! But this also required Marinette finding out he was Adrien and then only coming to love Chat that way. Which isn't entirely horrible but it just feels kind of shallow. I would have much preferred she realized she liked Chat but didn't want to "betray" Adrien in her mind so she refused to acknowledge it and then this reveal allowed her to combine the two and except that she has the best of both worlds. In many ways the romance of MLQC lends itself well to the character of Kiro/Helios but the romance of Miraculous seems to fight against the character of Adrien Agreste/Chat Noir. Probably because Kiro and MC's relationship feels like she (and the writers) have fully accepted and loved who he is where Adrien and Marinette's relationship feels like her (and the writers) love only one side of him and the other part is kind of just a small bonus. Oh, but don't worry this works the exact opposite way. Where Kiro actively loves MC, all of her (even though she can be kind of stupid), Adrien over here seems to only freaking like Ladybug. Like, yeah, he's nice to Marinette and he blushes around her occasionally but oftentimes that just feels like he's only blushing because their in oddly intimate positions often for some unknown reason. And also because he likes her as a friend. In Chat Blanc it feels like as soon as he realizes Marinette is Ladybug he suddenly recognizes this out of no where crush (that was barely hinted at). With Kiro he fell in love with MC first, before he found out she was a badass and then he fell even harder. Which makes it all the more ironic that he's willing to except all of her, even her flaws, but he can't seem to do the same for himself. In fact, Kiro even fell in love with MC in a similar way Chat did for Ladybug. MC was his hero. Someone who saved him and others by constantly being around to cheer people up despite the very dark situations of their childhood (which I won't get into because again, I'm trying not to spoil too much here). But that went from just outright admiration to genuine love. Chat's crush feels like he's just been holding Ladybug up on a pedestal the whole time except for kind of near the end of season 4 which I'm not sure why it had to take him that long.

I am not asking for Adrien to be exactly like Kiro. I am asking for him to feel like a sturdy character like Kiro. I am just trying to show that despite the similarities Kiro's character was able to find success where Adrien's character seems to only find failure. Kiro is most definitely not a perfect character. No character is ever perfect. But that's why we love them, isn't it? Because they're imperfect? So why can't the ml writer's seem to pull Adrien out of that bubble? Just let him be selfish without somehow justifying it! Also, keep in mind that this is just my interpretation of Kiro based on my experience with the game and anime. Some of this could totally be wrong or misinterpreted but it speaks volumes I am able to come up with all of this about his character based on what little I know yet for Adrien I have to compare him to characters to even try to explain why he annoys me! But that's just one of the successful characters I could compare Adrien to. The next part I'm going to talk about Gavin, also from Mr Love: Queen's Choice, and see how he also compares to Adrien.

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