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coffeeman777 · 1 year
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Would you be able to explain Romans 9 to me? I’ve been stuck on it for the past few days because it seems to contradict what I’ve been taught. If God shows mercy on whoever He chooses and hardens the hearts of others, how is hell justified? And do humans truly have free will to believe if He is the one who causes us to believe or not? Do atheists not believe because they were not predestined to believe? I’m sorry if it seems like a really obvious answer, I just genuinely don’t understand.
Heya! Thank you for the question, I'm happy to explain Romans 9. The confusion you're experiencing over this passage is very common, so please don't feel as if this is something super obvious that you just don't get. The Church has been debating this passage and related passages for centuries.
In Romans 9, the Apostle Paul begins by lamenting the state of the ethnic Jews of his day who rejected Messiah. He goes on to teach that true Jews aren't merely the physical descendants of Abraham, but those who have faith like Abraham did. Later, Paul makes it clear that Gentiles have been given the opportunity to be included as "children of Abraham" on the basis of faith.
Paul writes,
"In the words of the Scripture, “I chose to bless Jacob but not Esau.” And God said this before the children were even born, before they had done anything either good or bad. This proves that God was doing what He had decided from the beginning; it was not because of what the children did but because of what God wanted and chose.14 Was God being unfair? Of course not. 15 For God had said to Moses, “If I want to be kind to someone, I will. And I will take pity on anyone I want to.” 16 And so God’s blessings are not given just because someone decides to have them or works hard to get them. They are given because God takes pity on those He wants to. 17 Pharaoh, king of Egypt, was an example of this fact. For God told him He had given him the kingdom of Egypt for the very purpose of displaying the awesome power of God against him, so that all the world would hear about God’s glorious name. 18 So you see, God is kind to some just because He wants to be, and He makes some refuse to listen. 19 Well then, why does God blame them for not listening? Haven’t they done what he made them do? 20 No, don’t say that. Who are you to criticize God? Should the thing made say to the one who made it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 When a man makes a jar out of clay, doesn’t he have a right to use the same lump of clay to make one jar beautiful, to be used for holding flowers, and another to throw garbage into? 22 Does not God have a perfect right to show His fury and power against those who are fit only for destruction, those He has been patient with for all this time? 23-24 And He has a right to take others such as ourselves, who have been made for pouring the riches of His glory into, whether we are Jews or Gentiles, and to be kind to us so that everyone can see how very great His glory is."
Depending on who you're asking, you're going to get different answers. There are two broad schools of thought, those who seek to uphold free will, and those who seek to uphold God's sovereignty. Within each are a multiplicity of views.
The first group will generally take a corporate approach to the text. The passage doesn't teach that God individually selects some for salvation while bypassing others; instead, the passage means to teach that God has selected to save an entire group of people, which are those who freely chose to respond to Him in faith. This group is typically broadly labeled "Arminian," after the 16th century theologian Jacob Arminius.
The second group will generally state the opposite: this passage does, in fact, teach that it is God who chooses who will be saved and who won't be, completely apart from anything the individual does or doesn't do. Free will doesn't play a part. This group is broadly labeled "Reformed," or "Calvinist" after John Calvin, who was a contemporary of Arminius.
So which is it? Are people exercising free will to choose God, or is God unilaterally deciding Himself?
I am a Molinist, after the theologian Louis De Molina, who was also a contemporary of Arminius. My perspective on Romans 9 is a little bit different.
For the most part, I interpret Romans 9 the same way the Calvinists do. I think the passage is meant to teach that God gets to decide individually who is saved and who isn't. But unlike the Calvinists, I also believe in genuine free will and I hold that it plays a part in all this.
So, as a Molinist, I believe the answer to the above question is both.
Let me explain.
Following Molina, I believe there are three broad categories of Biblical texts that teach these truths: 1) God is Sovereign; 2) Humankind has genuine free will; and 3) God genuinely desires all people to be saved. The Bible teaches these three truths, but doesn't explain how all three interlock. Arminians generally uphold the second two truths by explaining away all the passages of Scripture that teach the first truth, and Calvinists generally uphold the first truth while explaining away all the passages that teach the second two.
Molina held that all three categories of Biblical texts must be upheld together without any explaining away. So, Molina came up with what is called the "doctrine of middle knowledge." At the time, all theologians explained God's knowledge by means of "logical moments"; the first moment of God's knowledge being God's knowledge of all necessary truths (like logic and mathematics), and the second moment being God's knowledge of all that He freely chose to create (all things that are true because God declares them to be true, like the actions of people). The first moment was called "natural knowledge," and the second moment was called "free knowledge." In between these two moments of God's knowledge is God's creative decree.
Molina posited a third moment to God's knowledge, and called it "middle" knowledge because it fits in between the other two moments. Molina suggested that this moment includes God's knowledge of all actions/choices of all His free creatures in all sets of possible circumstances; God knows exactly what each free creature would do in any set of circumstances. Molina suggested that this moment should be placed prior to God's creative decree, and that it informs His decisions when creating.
This means that, if Molina is correct, God is able to exercise exhaustive, meticulous Sovereignty over all of creation, while at the same time allowing all people to be genuinely free in a libertarian sense.
Dr. Kirk Macgregor, about Molina's doctrine, writes,
"Molina perceived that middle knowledge was the key to reconciling the three categories of biblical texts. Confronted with his middle knowledge of what every possible individual would freely do in every conceivable set of circumstances, God commits himself, out of his love, to consider for creation only those worlds in which he offers sufficient grace for salvation (i.e., prevenient grace) to each individual. By virtue of the universality of prevenient grace, God provides libertarian freedom to all individuals (thereby satisfying the second biblical category) and expresses his desire for all persons he creates to be saved (thereby satisfying the third biblical category). Among the range of these all-gracious worlds—a range that is infinite—God perceives from his middle knowledge that there is at least one world where each possible individual exists and would freely receive salvation. And God likewise middle-knows that there is at least one world where each possible individual exists and would freely spurn salvation, so being lost. And God likewise middle-knows that there is at least one world where each possible individual does not exist at all. It is here that the genius of Molina’s doctrine of predestination is exposed.
"Basing his thought on Romans 9, Molina proposed that God’s unconditional predestination is accomplished when, in making his providential choice of which world to create, God does not take into consideration any particular individual’s salvation, damnation, or nonexistence. Rather, God simply chooses the world he desires as a sheer act of his sovereignty. Any individual who would freely embrace God’s grace in the world God selects is thus predestined to salvation and so elected by God, even though God could have just as easily selected a world in which that same individual would freely choose to reject God’s grace or a different world in which that same individual would not exist. Any individual who would freely reject God’s grace in the world God selects is reprobated by God, even though God could have just as easily chosen a world in which that same individual would freely choose to embrace God’s grace or a different world in which that same individual would not exist. This choice of world, leading to various individuals’ election, reprobation, or nonexistence, is unconditioned by anything about the individuals but depends solely on the sovereign will of God (thereby satisfying the first biblical category). Hence Molina claimed we may finally understand why Paul insisted that, in predestination, there is no injustice with God (Romans 9:14, 19-20). God cannot be gainsaid for electing some people and reprobating others, since all worlds from which he is selecting are equally good by virtue of each person therein receiving prevenient grace."
I hope this makes sense to you. The answer is that humans really are free, and so really are responsible for their own choices; people choose to be atheists, people choose to believe in Jesus, and no person goes to Hell who couldn't have made different choices. And at the same time, God is completely Sovereign over all things, including the flow of history from eternity past to eternity future.
I realize this is dense material, so if you have any follow up questions, please feel free to ask. I'm always happy to answer!
Be blessed!
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apenitentialprayer · 1 year
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We trust in God's concern for every person He has created and redeemed through His Son. Let us, therefore, renew our prayer to Him: Fulfill the good work You have begun in us, Lord.
from the Catholic Liturgy of the Hours, Morning Prayer for the fourth Friday of the four week cycle in Ordinary time.
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brianchilton · 1 year
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S6E12 Predestination & Election: A Non-Calvinist Interpretation
S6E12 Predestination & Election: A Non-Calvinist Interpretation
By: Dr. Brian Chilton and Curtis Evelo | December 8, 2022 Dr. Brian Chilton and Curtis Evelo dig deep into soteriology as they discuss predestination and election from a non-Calvinist perspective. As such, they oppose the notion that God elects some to save and others to condemn without giving them an opportunity to respond to his grace. Additionally, they argue that God’s complete…
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christ-our-glory · 2 years
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A short video explaining (what is wrong with) Molinism.
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marcell-arts · 2 years
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fire emblem three pirates: pirates of fodlan 
(headcanon notes under the cut)
Black Eagle Pirates
Captain Edelgard ‘The Emperor’ Hresvelg’s outfit is mostly appropriated from the royal navy which drives the Church insane. 
Their flag is a skull looking towards the future, with three swords behind it spread like eagle wings
Edelgard’s first mate Hubert keeps a flock of messenger eagles which Edelgard borrows from regularly so she can have a menacing black parrot eagle on her shoulder when she needs to make a public appearance
The Adrestian Empire is the British Empire in this context. They are the largest pirate fleet in the Adrestian sea.
The Black Eagle pirates are known for employing and promoting pirates despite their previous status in society, so slaves, commoners, nobility, military and destitute men/women have an equal chance to be given high ranks and even ships in Edelgard’s fleet. A popular idea amongst pirates.
Blue Lion Pirates
Captain Dimitri ‘Le Sanglier’ (The Mad Boar) Blaiddyd has a bloodthirsty reputation that precedes him. His outfit is heavily inspired by Barbossa from PotC because he’s a dramatic goth pirate
Dimitri’s eyepatch is just so good here. My bro told me to give him a peg-leg too and a hook hand but I don’t think I can just lop off half his limbs like that.
Their flag is a skull baring lion’s teeth. The crossbones behind the skull represent revenge for the dead. 
The Kingdom of Faerghus are the French in this context. They are not the wealthiest pirates but are hardy and difficult to catch.
The Blue Lion Pirates are not looking for gold in particular, but out for revenge and justice. They are notably more patriotic than other pirates, and strategically target certain ships and ports when plundering, while leaving others completely unharmed. Those who cross them at sea never know whether they will face the Mad Boar’s wrath, or his mercy.
Golden Deer Pirates
Captain Claude ‘The Schemer’ Riegan is an enigmatic pirate with unknown origins. His outfit is inspired by real life pirate Calico Jack Rackham, who was known for wearing flashy gaudy clothing. 
Their flag is a skull with two crossed swords behind it, whose hilts are often mistaken for horns. 
The Leicester Alliance are the Spanish in this context, and Almyra is the Moghul Empire. 
No one knows what the Golden Deer pirates are here for exactly, but they know how to have a good time. They are famous for accepting any man from any nationality, and are the most racially diverse and multilingual pirates of the region. They are also famous for throwing the wildest parties and feasts after a good raid, and are often spotted running away from angry locals after having too much fun in town.
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badsciencejokes · 8 days
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I am pleased to announce the Bad Science Jokes grant presented by Orion Technical College! We are helping people go back to school locally in Davenport, IA, and AROUND THE U.S., with their online classes.
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whatnownotagain · 7 months
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Luc Molines and Paco Bautista veinporn
Luc Molines and Paco Bautista
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obsessedbyneon · 4 months
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Deere & Company Corporate Headquarters, 1978, in Moline, Illinois. Designed landscape by Sasaki Associates, in the building by Saarinen / Roche-Dinkeloo.
Scan
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lascitasdelashoras · 16 days
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pedro diaz molins
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perfectionjunkie · 3 months
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Claire Molin
@perfectionjunkie
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tyforthevnm · 1 year
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frnkiero andthe cellabration at The Orbit Room, Grand Rapids, MI on September 12, 2014 | Mary Moline
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buffythecomicslayer · 11 months
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Buffy with Ghostface in commission by Karl Moline. (x)
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random-brushstrokes · 8 months
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Raoul Dal Molin Ferenzona (Italian, 1879-1946) - Still life with cat and lobster
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mistray-art · 1 month
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I hope this is for someone out there (apart from me)
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unteriors · 5 months
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N Main Street, Moline, Kansas.
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obsidian-sphere · 1 month
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Spanish magazine ad for the 1936 Renault Viva Grand Sport. Art by F. Molina.
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