Octavian!
Do I know what I am going to write in this? Vaguely. More headcanons because I want to take a break from that rendering of Octavian because I want to work and make something better than putting effort into something I won’t be proud of or whatever.
Also I just want to keep talking about him but whatever,
Octavian never been outside of Camp Jupiter/New Rome is canon in my mind. There have been very few times he has been outside the little bubble, which were,
The Wolf House: where he really just stayed close to the house (obvi. Course I’d love to talk more about the exacts but since we get no information about the wolf house though it’d be a pretty good way to start SoN and then seamlessly blend us into a timeskip of the Gorgon chase but whatever- we are given no information about the wolf house either and aaaaa-) but the Wolf House Octavian mentality was survive through with his wits and try to survive enough to run out of there as soon as possible when he has the training done.
His quest: we get no information on it, but we know that he had to do a quest to become a Centurion (Can confirm this is a rule, check the Senate scene near the beginning, I believe it was Larry the legionnaire that yelled it) though we also, sadly, get no indication what this question was. But I’d like to introduce the idea that it was a duo quest with Michael and Octavian and they became Centurions together (I’ll probably re-read this and then add more on later) but I’d assume this Question also has them steeped pretty deep into the mythological side of the world and they didn’t get much down time. But what little of the mortal world Octavian saw he thought was pretty cool- though he still thinks New Rome looks better. (Because if anyone walks up to me and says the current era of architecture we’re in is better than anything that predates the freaking 1950’s is lying to me and trying to make me buy a house. We have fallen as a society when we started thinking ultra minimalist boring homes that are devoid of any depth or visual interest was the best route to go for our buildings. But that’s another rant from me for another day-)
Siege of Mt.Tam: they had to travel the smallest bit for this but again, didn’t interact with the mortal world much, they all stayed pretty self contained to the temporary camp and the mountain itself.
The cross country trip to go attack the Greeks: this is the one we’re shown in canon or whatever. But this was probably the most chaotic of the times that Octavian had been out of Camp. It was a lot to deal with, really overwhelming to be stuck with everyone with no where to move or anything. But this would be the most he would really interact with stuff like fast food chains, gas stations, all the stuff. And New York, that was a thing that happened. I believe they briefly passed through New York (we know that at some point they’re inside of New York from the Rachel scene if I remember properly) and that meant Hotels, it was similar enough to the barracks that it was fine. Though I think that the whiplash from New Rome to this made Octavian a lot more hesitant about stuff like these cities. He likes modern culture to some extent (insert another Build-a-bear joke. And if anyone asks, I believe he totally gets them delivered to calcedott tunnel instead of going out to a physical store. He has never had the experience and childlike splendor of making one that that needs to change.)
Anyway yeah. I would also like to say that Octavian is okay on a string instrument. However I would like to say that he put all his eggs into one figurative basket when he was a small child by learning one full song only. A 6 year old Octavian skipped over learning reading notes and whatever and just copying the motions until it sounded okay. He doesn’t really know how to read stuff like notes or whatever but has a pretty okay sense of Rhythm.
Don’t ask him to dance though. Octavian may look a little more elegant moving around or fighting but he is an actual newborn giraffe.
Okay that’s all I have for now. Have a rad time and I’ll get out the next couple passes of the CJ map.
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Do you agree w/ the fandom interpretation that john was so homophobic he’d have beaten up and abandoned his sons for being gay? Cause sure, he grew up in the 60s as a mechanic and then later became a marine during the vietnam war, but i also don’t think homophobia would’ve necessarily been a priority for him? Like obviously he’s not gonna be the full on supportive and politically correct loving dad, but i think that the fandom’s general opinion on that is pretty warped by people’s relationships w/ their own fathers
I do think this is one place where people tend to project. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that; working out our issues through fiction is healthy and good! I don’t think there’s any canon proof of it beyond, as you said, him being a marine from the sixties who would probably not be super knowledgeable about being queer, maybe a little apprehensive about it from what he’s absorbed through the culture he grew up in. I think we’d be correct to point out that if Sam or Dean were queer, he might be uncomfortable about it, he might try to avoid the topic, which is in of itself hurtful.
The thing about me is: I fully disagree that John was ever physically abusive towards his kids. At most, I will bend this interpretation to say he was probably too harsh on them while teaching them to fight and that maybe he and Sam have traded blows before when arguments got too loud (by blows, I mean, probably shoving with the yelling, you know, assertion of physical space. It seems realistic to me that two people who have been using violence for a long time to protect themselves, and for John, his family, down to the hierarchal power he’s put in place of him -> Dean -> Sam, would resort to it when things got too heated.)
(I also think that sometimes fandom’s insistence that John had to be physically abusive can sometimes get a little insulting because it perpetuates the idea that emotional abuse does less harm and can be overlooked and for flattening out John’s character in a way the show very literally pointed to and said He Did Not Do That. This is the entire point of Max’s episode in s1, for the show to point out that their experiences of abuse were different. How well it was handled is arguable, but I take it as clear evidence that when we talk about John’s relationship with his sons, the focus should be on the emotional abuse, the codependency he developed with Dean from a very young age, his neglect of them both, his attempts to suppress Sam, etc. And I appreciate this about the show, because you can’t talk about any of those things without also talking about why they’re happening, why John thinks this is necessary, how he loves his sons and isolates them to protect them and ends up doing more and more damage that will never leave them through their entire lives.
I’m sure there’s depictions of John being physically abusive that handle it with the same amount of nuance that the show handles him being emotionally abusive in canon. I have not seen them, unfortunately. I’ve seen John being physically abusive 90% of the time just being used as shorthand for him being Bad and Evil and A Terrible Father. Which does not interest me. So I will remain here as a staunch defender of He Would Not Fucking Hit His Kids.)
Sorry, okay, we got off topic there this is about gay shit.
The point of All Of That was for me to be able to say, John’s not going to react to his sons being queer by beating them. He’s definitely not going to abandon them. Hello? John Winchester? Abandon his kids? John Winchester, the guy who has been keeping them in warded up motel rooms their whole lives and moving them across the country out of paranoia the demon who killed his wife could find them if they say anywhere too long? John Winchester who only trusted one or two people to ever look after his sons when he went on a hunting trip too long? We think that John would ditch his kid because they’re queer???
Like I said, I think the most realistic reaction for John, (if not just flat out him going ‘that’s fine, now load this gun while I time you because that’s more important for me to know that you can do’, because. He kind of has bigger priorities to worry about here. Like werewolves.) would be discomfort and pushing it out of his view, ignoring it. Which would still fucking hurt! And would have horrible effects on Sam and Dean both, would encourage Dean to repress it if he thinks his dad is ashamed of him, would push Sam away if he trusts John with this fact about himself and can’t be accepted easily.
I just think this is truer to John’s character.
Anyway. If nothing else here persuades anyone reading that John Would Not Fucking Do That, well. He thought his kid was demonspawn, remember? He thought Sam was corrupted and might not be able to be saved. I don’t think you can get more clear queercoding than that, and you know what John’s very telling response was to that information, to finding out something a thousand times more terrifying than Sam being gay ever could be? To refuse to look at it. To insist to himself that whatever Hell wanted with Sam, he wouldn’t let it happen. To tell Dean to take care of it, because even when John is certain that his son might literally become a demon, he could never bring himself to pull the trigger on him. Because he loves Sam.
So like. He literally would not do anything for the much smaller realization that Sam is gay. His son has demon blood that might turn him super evil, and John still wouldn’t hurt him.
I guess what I’m trying to say here is, I try to keep the fact that John loved his sons at the forefront of my mind when I’m writing stuff about him, because I think if you let that slide out of your head, you can very easily make him much worse, much more flat than he was in canon. The real picture of him is just an extremely flawed man in a terrible situation who fucks up his kids as much as he protects them.
And also he wouldn’t care about them being gay because JohnAzazel real and true and they fucked sloppy in that hospital basement-
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Im the rem x otto anon, so just to be clear bc i dont think i was in that ask
Rem is an amazing character and has a key role in the story, her character arc in arc 1 and 2 was amazing. BUT after she falls in love with Subaru, i feel that everything we saw of her gets sorta of erased? Its not the same Rem, and even though she did go through a major cathartic event, i think her character could have taken another direction than of being resumed as Subaru's love interest (when she is not fighting)
I feel tappei wasted some potential, bc i wanted to see her being confident about herself without the Subaru obsession (and we got this on arc 7 and 8 and i loved it)
oh yo hello again!! :o and oohh ok i think i kinda see what you mean? bc i do agree. (also my bad im gonna ramble again aljdflsj but i thought this topic is pretty interesting :o)
ok so. while i know the whole point of rems development in arc 3 is that while she means well, shes ultimately developed an unhealthy devotion to subaru, i still feel like arc 3 rem kind of. narratively speaking, i feel like her arc 2 traits and all her traits pre-subaru get kind of flattened. or ignored?? im not quite sure how to explain this but ill try my best aljdflsd. like ok this is complicated to talk about bc yeah rems arc as it is does serve a purpose, and arc 2 rem was different bc she was operating off of what she knew at the time and she only knew subaru as a stranger and/or enemy at first. her arc 2 to arc 3 development was rem trying to move on from her fixation on ram, but in the process ends up moving that fixation to subaru. but i do wish that tappei emphasized her personhood outside of subaru more EVEN WHILE she was placing her whole life around him. bc thats exactly what tappei does when hes writing otto.
otto as a character is a whole fleshed out person, and if you cut away all the parts that have to do with subaru, otto the character still stands on his own. with rem, the moment you hit arc 3, everything pre-arc 3 kind of. fades away, almost? of course its not that rem cant stand on her own as a character. the rem and ram prequel novel for example takes place from rems pov and shes absolutely fascinating throughout the entire story. but when you look at arc 3 rem and compare her to pre-arc 3 rem, i feel like tappei forgets to still show her outside of subaru. i feel like the narrative needs to call out rem a bit more for her unhealthy behavior bc tappei doesnt hold back when it comes to someone like otto. so where is the equal treatment for rem....??
i do feel like theres smth to be said about the writing being a little more neutral when rems doing smth Unhealthy bc of her subaru obsession. its fascinating. we have to read into it. but also then tappei turns around and takes the time to shit on otto for doing subaru obsession things and also tappei shits on subaru for being obsessive too and its like. tappei ............ what about rem........
roswaal too is another character whos big motivation is devotion for a love interest (yeah ok i know i too am metaphorically crying and vomiting at the idea of calling echidna a love interest for roswaal but that IS how he sees her) but he also stands on his own as a character even if you ignore everything connecting him to echidna. with roswaal and otto you get a good balance of them being Heavily connected to the people theyre respectively devoted to while also being able to stand on their own Narratively. bc i know the whole point of roswaal, otto, rem, etc is that theyre Dependent and Obsessed, but writing wise, they should still be able to take the spotlight when the spotlight is on them even when the person theyre devoted to has nothing to do with it.
and when you have multiple characters whos motivation is being Dependent and Obsessed, the differences are gonna be a bit stark. its a very fine line to walk with characters like this bc you cant have Everything about them revolve around another character. but also thats the point at the same time. its a very Very thin line to walk. subaru himself is also/was a Dependent and Obsessed character and like. well we all know how nuanced subaru is as a character. you could write essays and essays on him alone.
rem though, i feel, gets a little too flattened into the role of subarus love interest, but at the same time i can sort of forgive it for arc 3 bc of the plot beats being one after the other and her general Purpose in the story. but at the same time i really do wish tappei still emphasized WHO SHE IS outside of subaru. bc even while someone like otto is thinking about subaru A Lot (see: the ottos diary shorts, aka the episodes where ALMOST EVERY DAMN SHORT is about subaru), you still get a sense of ottos personality. hes analytical but easily flustered. he does get a little jealous. hes anxious and a bit of a coward. but also hes so brave when it really counts. hes in denial about how much he cares about people sometimes, even when its abundantly clear. hes practical but kind of emotional at the same time?? hes very perceptive. but also he can be a little dumb with perceiving himself and his own feelings bc of the aforementioned Denial and also theres the fact that he doesnt know Why he gets jealous of emilia talking about subaru. but also hes pretty smart with reading other people and their emotions. but at the same time hes a little egocentric at times and overly focuses on himself and forgets things like how other people actually perceive him. but at the same time hes focused on how people see him bc hes a merchant. thats the basis of his job. and also he has anxiety so he does care about that. etc etc.
rem in arc 3 though is like. shes soft sweet protective caring loyal....................... which is nice and all but its definitely a big difference from arc 2 rem and pre-arc 3 rem in general where we see a whole RANGE of different traits, emotions, etc. like even in her relationship with ram theres complexities - theres the envy, theres the kind of "debt" that she owes ram for saving her life, the kind of brief sick burst of joy that ram lost her horn and is now "equal" to rem in status, the guilt from feeling that way, but also is her life even worth Anything if shes not making herself useful, etc etc. and also - yes the softness the loyalty etc etc is part of rem. a crucial part of rem that she shows to her loved ones (ram and subaru) the most. but yeah as you said anon - arc 7 and 8 was really fascinating bc we finally get to see her outside of her fixation on subaru. i mean one example is that we see her act Cold in some parts of arc 2 and the coldness does carry over a bit in some parts of arc 7 (see: rem being mean about natsumi, rem defending herself against subaru bc being an amnesiac she used to just see subaru as Some Guy who was acting a little too chummy with her, etc etc).
but also in general. its nice to see her stand more on her own now. i do wish though that tappei emphasized her more even while she was deep in the subaru obsession, bc tappei has made MULTIPLE characters with similar plot beats to her and they were still very nuanced and complex :o !! not that rem isnt that bc she HAS all this depth and i adore her for that!! but shes definitely a little lacking in a few areas of her writing, imo. i am however interested to see where she goes in arc 8 for sure!!
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Sek’s Wards: Sveyko and S’veyk
Their biological mother fell in love with a Klingon and ran off to be with him when they were both in their teens and they were very happy. Unfortunately, her family was not as happy and basically disowned her.
When her bondmate hit his pon farr she was compelled to go back home, both because of the bond but also because she and her Klingon partner wanted their bond to be recognized by her family. It was incredibly important for some reason.
Unfortunately again, the man she loved was killed during the kal-if-fee and she married her bondmate instead, unable to fight for some reason.
A few months later the reason for both of these things was revealed to be the twins, belonging to her Klingon lover.
The twins’ mother died when they were quite young and their father + the rest of their biological family were very cruel to them. Their father had long since lost his logic and blamed them for the way his life turned out, meanwhile the rest of the family was negligent and refused to speak of or interact meaningfully with the children.
Sek came across them while visiting the house to speak to their father about something work related, as they were both teachers. Sek was immediately disturbed by their appearance (their living conditions were obviously poor but the house and its other occupants were fine. They also appeared to be very afraid/aggressive.)
Sek reported his suspicions to the proper authorities and their legal father was tried and placed in a rehabilitation center but it quickly became an anti-custody battle because neither the girls’ Vulcan nor Klingon relatives wanted to house them. Sek stayed with them throughout this process and enlisted the help of his siblings Asil (private eye) and Elieth (politician) to help him understand the legalese and government systems more.
Eventually, Sek took them in as wards so they would have a stable place to recover until they were put in a better home.
However, after a few years he petitioned to house them permanently and all parties agreed that that ‘would be best.’
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