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hell-heron · 1 year

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I posted 1,224 times in 2022

162 posts created (13%)

1,062 posts reblogged (87%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@selkiewife

@alleyskywalker

@nosafeanchorage

@dwellordream

@laurellerual

I tagged 1,147 of my posts in 2022

Only 6% of my posts had no tags

#asoiaf - 495 posts

#op - 124 posts

#ironborn - 96 posts

#romeo and juliet - 50 posts

#kitties - 45 posts

#hotd - 30 posts

#theon greyjoy - 13 posts

#derry girls - 13 posts

#disney - 11 posts

#😭 - 11 posts

Longest Tag: 139 characters

#hilarious that luisa description tho... so isa is technically 'ideal in every way' but have i told you of how beautiful and smart and kind-

My Top Posts in 2022:

Day 4 - (some tea about) House Greyjoy and House Harlaw

There tends to be a misconception in the fandom that Theon was not allowed to have contact with his family during his time at Winterfell, but that's not actually true, he just didn't get letters very often and his mail might have been read, but presumably he was allowed to reply. However in this light it becomes VERY interesting to see what information he has and doesn't have about his family:

Gods, he has grown grim, Theon thought. "Will I find my sister and my lady mother at Pyke?"

Theon searched for his uncle Euron’s Silence. Of that lean and terrible red ship he saw no sign,

Theon did not need to be told that Black Wind was Asha's longship. He had not seen his sister in ten years, but that much he knew of her.

A memory prodded at Theon. In one of his rare curt letters, Lord Balon had written of his youngest brother going down in a storm, and turning holy when he washed up safe on shore. "Uncle Aeron?" he said doubtfully.

Maybe, you know, he's "in denial about everything about the Iron Islands" because they only fucking write him the news that makes the family look good

28 notes - Posted March 24, 2022

Day 26 - Parallels with Other Characters, also Names, Self-Actualization and Revenge, part 1 - Theon and Arianne

I want to say this started as an entirely different meta but I got distracted midway by the fact there are THREE characters besides Theon, actually, that seem to pass from being referred to in chapter titles by aliases to being referred by their name. Victarion in ADWD, Arianne and Barristan in TWOW. Obviously, GRRM might still have to pick chapter titles for TWOW, but given that the Forsaken, Mercy etc had their own titles, I think it works.

This strikes me bc Arianne and Victarion are characters with MASSIVE ACOK Theon energy in such a way that I think this says something about the way Theon's self actualization and finding his name again came to be.

Theon and Arianne occupy, alas, very similar spaces in the heart and spleen of the fandom as two ambitious very young adults who don't trascend past the inexperience and immaturity that could be expected even a little, in a series where half the major povs are extremely gifted children. Arianne's mistakes are obviously not as destructive as Theon's but there's a racist and sexist bias against her making it so they're pretty much equally hated. They're both extroverted and snarky and overtly sexual in a way that hides some pretty massive trust issues, struggling with rivarly towards a sibling they have very good reasons to feel is favored by their fathers over them despite being officially the heir, and they lash out against this in a very similar way

The queenmaker plot and the taking of Winterfell are similarly feverish, desperate, euphorically exciting-until-they're-not endeavors in which both Arianne and Theon endanger and hurt children they massively project on (the actual child murder on Theon's part nonwitstanding). Theon seeks to avenge his inner child reenacting his own hostage situation from a position of control, Arianne to heal her inner child realizing her fantasy of a disinherited daughter crowned over her younger brother. This is literally how she presents the plan to Arys:

“Will not? Cannot! Myrcella is more fit for rule …”

“A son comes before a daughter.”

“Why? What god has made it so? I am my father’s heir. Should I give up my rights to my brothers?”

At this point, needless to say, Arianne knows exactly nothing about Tommen to justify this. Obviously her fantasy is doomed even before her plan itself fails- Myrcella is younger than Arianne was when she found her father's letter and never had any desire for the Iron Throne, she doesn't quite comprehend the situation, her first reaction when she's called queen is fear that something happened to Tommen, where Arianne blindly embraces the idea Quentyn plotted against her. An absolutely unsatisfying projection vehicle, just as Bran, Rickon and Beth are for Theon - the Stark boys are helped escape, the whole household covering for them, when he tries to use Beth against her father as he was used, ser Rodrik begs to take him in her place. Theon's misery of being held hostage long term, completely alone and unsupported, only to realize his family had given up on him from the start remains his and his alone.

The motive also feels to me the same - grab for power that's actually a grab for agency lashing out at a situation of forced stasis they spent 10 years in, that's actually a desperate appeal for their fathers' love and trust. Theon's time in Winterfell is obviously horribly traumatic but it also represents a forced stasis, it's extremely damaging for him to have an illusion of physical freedom to do what he pleases vis-a-vis training, hunting, whoring etc. while actually he's prevented by adult responsibilities even as his fifteen year old foster brothers lead armies. The attainment of manhood on the Iron Islands for noble boys seems to coincide with becoming a captain. Theon is taken when he was just beginning to learn:

Ugly as it was, that smile brought back a hundred memories. Theon had seen it often as a boy, when he’d jumped a horse over a mossy wall, or flung an axe and split a target square. He’d seen it when he blocked a blow from Dagmer’s sword, when he put an arrow through a seagull on the wing, when he took the tiller in hand and guided a longship safely through a snarl of foaming rocks.

then never sets foot on a boat again for the next ten years and seemingly is put to train on equal footing with Robb and Jon who are four years younger. The fandom generally assumes Ned's plan for Theon is to wait until Balon dies to then have Theon as a lord friendly to the mainland interests: this makes perfect sense but we never know about it. We never find anything about what future Theon expects, he's not betrothed, obviously we find out when he returns that Balon is actively praying for him to die rather than awaiting the return of his heir for him to finally have a true place etc. but Theon has no way to know the situation at home either because he's only getting letters about the good news. Theon is pretty adaptable - he has some characteristics that make him slightly weird in the islands (preferrence for riding, fancy bitch taste, not used to the different power dynamics, uninterested in religion) and in the North (some romanticization of the Old Way, dark humor) but he does decently in both until he explodes in Winterfell, he's at ease in the Riverlands in the Blackfish' forces, he considers the Night's Watch as an option where he might be decently happy etc. The problem is he's never allowed to hope or prepare for any future, the war of the Five Kings is literally the first time he has any direction in life.

As for Arianne:

The freedom that Prince Oberyn allowed his bastard daughters had never been shared by Prince Doran’s lawful heir. Arianne must wed; she had accepted that. Drey had wanted her, she knew; so had his brother Deziel, the Knight of Lemonwood. Daemon Sand had gone so far as to ask for her hand. Daemon was bastard-born, however, and Prince Doran did not mean for her to wed a Dornishman. Arianne had accepted that as well. One year King Robert’s brother came to visit and she did her best to seduce him, but she was half a girl and Lord Renly seemed more bemused than inflamed by her overtures. Later, when Hoster Tully asked her to come to Riverrun and meet his heir, she lit candles to the Maid in thanks, but Prince Doran had declined the invitation. The princess might even have considered Willas Tyrell, crippled leg and all, but her father refused to send her to Highgarden to meet him. She tried to go despite him, with Tyene’s help... but Prince Oberyn caught them at Vaith and brought them back. That same year, Prince Doran tried to betroth her to Ben Beesbury, a minor lordling who was eighty if he was a day, and as blind as he was toothless.

What we get here is: Arianne has arguably more freedom than any young lady of her rank in the rest of Westeros, but she doesn't perceive it as freedom because while she can make more independent choices for the present about sex, friendships with people of all social ranks, parties etc, the future is both outside her agency AND unknown to her, which are both factors to her dissatisfaction with it. We know Doran means for Arianne to be Viserys' queen consort, Arianne only knows he doesn't mean for her to be princess of Dorne, but she deduces that he must want her to be someone's consort, and she doesn't outright reject this. She courts several heirs, not second sons of rich families willing to back her claim up to expand their influence in Dorne or something. She's willing to work with her father's plan and have her future partially dictated as long as she knows enough to make the best of it. Arianne is a huge people's person, very charming and able to manipulate, does well in her role "in charge of feasts and frolics" etc. and we have absolutely no reason to think she'd be either incapable or miserable as a consort. So the problem here is that Doran, through ridiculous matches he knows she won't accept, is essentially forcing her into a suspended childhood where she can neither plan for a future as princess of Dorne nor for one as consort. And she must lash out against it to have any feeling of agency in her life.

So she does, like Theon, recklessly and daringly and with an initial success that speaks of her cunning and boldness, like Theon, she claims a vengeful motivation towards external forces when really it's to vindicate her place within her own family she wants, like Theon

Asha shook her head. “How could you be such a bloody fool? Children . . .” “They defied me!” he shouted in her face. “And it was blood for blood besides, two sons of Eddard Stark to pay for Rodrik and Maron.” The words tumbled out heedlessly, but Theon knew at once that his father would approve. “I’ve laid my brothers’ ghosts to rest.”

“And what is it I want, ser?”

“The Sand Snakes freed. Vengeance for Oberyn and Elia. Do I know the song? You want a little taste of lion blood.” That, and my birthright. I want Sunspear, and my father’s seat. I want Dorne. “I want justice.”

She fails miserably, like Theon, but how does it end?

On the morning that she left the Water Gardens, her father rose from his chair to kiss her on both cheeks. "The fate of Dorne goes with you, daughter," he said, as he pressed the parchment into her hand. "Go swiftly, go safely, be my eyes and ears and voice... but most of all, take care."

"I will, Father." She did not shed a tear. Arianne Martell was a princess of Dorne, and Dornishmen did not waste water lightly. It was a near thing, though. It was not her father's kisses nor his hoarse words that made her eyes glisten, but the effort that brought him to his feet, his legs trembling under him, his joints swollen and inflamed with gout. Standing was an act of love. Standing was an act of faith.

He believes in me. I will not fail him.

Doran and Arianne's dialogue in The Princess in the Tower is one of the highlights of AFFC for me, it's so heartbreaking. Arianne is able to confront her father about the baggage of the last ten years, which Theon does in the show but not truly in the books. While Doran is understandably disappointed and upset with her, they are able to come to a reconciliation, he slowly comes to admit he wronged her, he admits to her his most fallible, uncautious human feelings, his "heart's desire". He breaks down thinking nostalgically of Arianne as a little girl. More in ADWD: he sees her loyal nature and good intentions in the bad choices she made and defends her:

Obara laughed. “Aye, our sweet Arianne has seen to that.”

The princess flushed, and Hotah saw a spasm of anger pass across her father’s face. “What she did, she did as much for you as for herself. I would not be so quick to mock.”

He even enacts the #1 Theon love language of laughing at her bad jokes :(

The little princess smiled. “Three Oberyns, with teats.”

Prince Doran laughed. It had been so long since Hotah last heard him laugh, he had almost forgotten what it sounded like

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33 notes - Posted March 26, 2022

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33 notes - Posted July 22, 2022

and taken him from his home

day 3 - hostage identity and childhood

35 notes - Posted March 3, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

Prince Bolkonsky is honestly such a funny antagonist in how hard it is to explain how his assholery manifests... Like "in his scene of most heinous and abusive behavior this despicable man expresses the belief women can learn maths too and should choose their husbands independently" "the callous bitch really ruins everyone's life with his stance that his 30 year old son shouldn't marry a teenage girl"

128 notes - Posted February 17, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

#op #long post #god this was a SERIOUS flop year wasn't it ghjk

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selkiewife · 4 years

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@the-king-andthe-lionheart, thanks for your questions and comments! It was easier for me to create whole new post because this got long, so I’ll respond to your questions on my post here.

cw/tw: This post contains description of rape and sexual assault, and discussion of seizures.

First, it’s important for me to reiterate that even if Sansa is not being triggered, she still has every right to reject unwanted touch from Sweetrobin.

But the reason I got the impression that Sansa was being triggered by the touching of her breasts is because she has experienced sexual trauma related to her breasts being touched or exposed at least three times before Sweetrobin nuzzles her there. First, as Joffrey is having her beaten in front of the court, he orders Boros to strip her naked:

Boros shoved a meaty hand down the front of Sansa's bodice and gave a hard yank. The silk came tearing away, baring her to the waist. Sansa covered her breasts with her hands. She could hear sniggers, far off and cruel. "Beat her bloody," Joffrey said...

On her forced wedding night she is asked to strip again:

She kept her eyes on the floor, too shy to look at him, but when she was done she glanced up and found him staring. There was hunger in his green eye, it seemed to her, and fury in the black. Sansa did not know which scared her more." You're a child," he said. She covered her breasts with her hands. "I've flowered."

Then when she is told to get into bed:

She had started to pull up a blanket to cover herself when she heard him say, "No." The cold made her shiver, but she obeyed. Her eyes closed, and she waited. After a moment she heard the sound of her husband pulling off his boots, and the rustle of clothing as he undressed himself. When he hopped up on the bed and put his hand on her breast, Sansa could not help but shudder. She lay with her eyes closed, every muscle tense, dreading what might come next.

Then after she has escaped King’s Landing with Little Finger, Marillion, the singer, attempts to rape her.

Sansa jerked away from him, frightened. "If you don't leave me, my au—my father will hang you. Lord Petyr."

"Littlefinger?" He chuckled. "Lady Lysa loves me well, and I am Lord Robert's favorite. If your father offends me, I will destroy him with a verse." He put a hand on her breast, and squeezed. "Let's get you out of these wet clothes. You wouldn't want them ripped, I know."

So when Sweetrobin climbs into her bed and nuzzles against her breast, I do think that it triggers her. As she describes:

She would not have minded if he only slept, but he was always trying to nuzzle at her breasts.

We understand why he is doing it and so does Sansa- even though he is eight, he’s still weaning since Lysa was still breastfeeding him and she died so suddenly. Sansa knows he is only looking for comfort. But at the age of thirteen, Sansa has already had three traumatic incidents related to unwanted touching or displaying of her breasts (two of which happened when she was only twelve.)

TWOW Spoilers: It sickens me just talking about this as well, but Arya is also groped at the age of eleven in the Mercy chapter of TWOW. So I completely agree with you that Arya is going through the same kind of abuse and traumas as her sister. At the time she cares for Weasel, I don’t think she has been touched in this way (I may be wrong.) But even if she wasn’t and didn’t have any sort of trigger, I would still not judge Arya to be “unmotherly” or lacking compassion if she rejected a touch from Weasel there or anywhere else on her body.

Speaking of Weasel, I did not say that Arya’s situation was any less traumatic than Sansa. And I totally agree, Arya is on the run, starving, traumatized, and hunted. I also did not intend to say Weasel herself was any less traumatized than Sweetrobin. I do believe that it is kind of ridiculous to compare traumas anyway and obviously it is just not right to do that. However I do think that Sweetrobin may be more difficult to care for than Weasel at baseline. Ordinarily, I wouldn’t have thought to compare which child was harder. But it was Sansa’s care of Sweetrobin that was being called into question, not Arya’s. So I did start to compare how difficult each child would be to care for when thinking about why Sansa reacts to Sweetrobin the way she does sometimes.

So it was intentional when I said that I think Sweetrobin is arguably harder to care for than Weasel, just objectively speaking, for a number of reasons. I also said arguably, because you could argue the opposite- that Weasel is harder. Or say they are equally hard. I mean, Weasel is tough to deal with as well. She cried so much she was called “the crying girl” before she got the nickname Weasel and she even kicked Hot Pie once I think. And she also has that habit of eating mud. And even Gendry complained that she was slowing them down (Isn’t it interesting how the fandom never calls Gendry’s fathering skills into question even though he would have willingly abandoned a traumatized child?)

But one reason that I personally think that Weasel is easier to care for is because she is more likable than Sweetrobin and less demanding. Although this may be just my own feelings as a reader (which are subjective), Weasel was endearing to me immediately in a way that I didn’t feel with Sweetrobin at first. Now I know that might sound harsh, but I think that GRRM writes Sweetrobin to be off-putting purposely and I will explain why later. He does that with a lot of characters. Sansa for one, but also Theon, Jaime etc... there are a lot of characters in asoiaf that you are set up to dislike at first, before coming to understand and root for them later. I think Sweetrobin is one of those characters. And I think Sansa feels similarly toward him- gradually bonding with him instead of instantaneously.

And we know Arya seems to like Weasel immediately. She even chooses “Weasel” as one of her aliases later in her arc and she tends to pick names of people she loves. I also think Weasel and Arya have a lot in common. They are both resilient, traumatized little girls on the run you know? I loved that out of the whole group they were the only ones unafraid to eat bugs when they were starving (these poor children!) And so, I feel like Arya could identify with her in a lot of ways.

Whereas I think that Sansa takes longer to bond with Sweetrobin because it is more complicated with him for a couple of reasons. For one, even before the trauma, Lysa has been raising Sweetrobin to be a spoiled brat. He is also emotionally stunted as a result of the way Lysa has kept him isolated and coddled. And even though I don’t think that Sweetrobin really understands what is happening when he is so gleeful about making people “fly” through the moon door- it’s still a little chilling and off putting.

A specific reason that I think Sansa doesn’t immediately warm to him is that even before she meets him, Lysa intends for them to wed each other. Sansa has just left a traumatizing marriage into the Lannister family and the last thing she wants is another forced marriage right now. As Lysa instructs her:

“He likes to play hopfrog and spin-the-sword and come-into-my-castle, but you must always let him win. That's only proper, don't you think? He is the Lord of the Eyrie, after all, you must never forget that... My son will have a grateful and obedient wife.”

Sweetrobin, at first, symbolizes another unwanted, forced marriage to Sansa. So she might have an initial aversion to him just because of this. And I stand by my original assessment that this does make the situation with Sweetrobin more fucked up than Weasel. Weasel represents a frightened, traumatized child to Arya. Whereas Sweetrobin represents a traumatized child as well, but also a possible future husband that Sansa would have to be “grateful and obedient” to. Of course that changes once Lysa dies- but it is still the way she was introduced to him. And Robert still talks about marrying her in TWOW. We know that it is just a sweet crush from a little boy- but again, even the sweet things he does is sometimes off putting to Sansa because it is related to her trauma. Not to mention the fact that she is only caring for him because his mother tried to murder her. And she is dealing with misplaced guilt since Baelish ended up murdering Lysa after that incident. So Sweetrobin is intricately linked with her trauma.

And then his behavior in general is tough to deal with. None of it is his fault, but it still tough nonetheless. He is given to temper tantrums, throwing his chamber pot and bowls of food at people, and he is very petulant- and this was part of his character even before Lysa was murdered. He kind of reminds me of Colin from The Secret Garden. Like, it’s not his fault he is a spoiled brat, but he does start out like that.

He also has health issues and seizures. Obviously this is not his fault, but Sansa doesn’t have the necessary training to deal with his seizures or know the appropriate thing to do when he is having them. Sansa gives him sweetsleep so that he doesn’t have a seizure on the way down the mountain. As you said, she has no idea it could lead to his death and the side effects seem to be way less of a threat than him having a seizure and falling to his death. She is not a maester and doesn’t know the true effects of what she thinks is a medicine. Maester Coleman is the one who knows how harmful it is. And as the actual adult in the situation, he should either clearly tell her “hey, this will kill him,” or intervene himself.

She has also been injured while trying to help him during a seizure:

Alayne turned to soothe the little lordling, but too late. The fit was on him. A pitcher of milk went flying as his hand caught it, flailing. When he tried to rise he knocked his chair backwards and fell on top of it. One foot caught Alayne in the belly, so hard it knocked the wind from her.

And it’s worth mentioning that she never complains specifically about these incidents because she knows it is not his fault at all. That is it just part of his illness. She never complains about him at all actually to his face or to others- she is always sweet and soothing. The only reason we know of her frustrations at all is because we can read her thoughts. Which is similar to Arya who is bothered by Weasel’s crying as well but always defends her against the others who are complaining.

But I think that Sweetrobin is purposely set up to be a difficult child to care for- because, as I said in the original post, Sansa is on a learning arc. She is learning to care for him (And I think she does an excellent job, personally.) Whereas, Arya’s relationship with Weasel is set up to reveal her compassion, her leadership skills, and ability to stand up for people (like when Gendry wants to leave Weasel behind.)

I agree with you that Sansa represses a lot of Little Finger’s machinations due to her trauma. But I don’t think she knows that Sweetrobin is being poisoned. I think she buys Little Finger’s story that Robert will die because of his health issues. And even then, I think she hopes for the best. Why else would she want to make him stronger and brave? Why else would she hope for a kind wife for him one day, if she was knowingly poisoning him? It doesn’t make sense. But I do think that GRRM leaves some things purposely vague so that it creates suspense. Will she realize he is being poisoned in time? If she does, will she try to save him? I think she will but that is probably one of the reasons he made Sweetrobin so difficult for Sansa specifically. To plant that seed of doubt in the reader. Like we know Arya would do anything to save Weasel. That’s a no brainer. But would Sansa save Sweetrobin? I think yes, and I will write a longer post about this at some point. But regardless, her initial complicated feelings toward him does serve to create narrative suspense.

Anyway, thanks for the questions and sorry that my explanation got so long. I hope you don’t take what I said, comparing Sweetrobin to Weasel, as me saying anything bad against Arya. It breaks my heart when I think of the trauma she has survived and is currently going through as well. And there are definitely many situations where she is dealing with things that are objectively harder than Sansa as well. And like I said, this is just my opinion of the two different childcare plots.

And also, this may be controversial, but I think Arya absolutely did the right thing when she slapped Weasel to get her to move out of the battle. She needed to do whatever she could as a ten year old child trying to save a toddler’s life! Like seriously, if I were Weasel’s mother I would never be like “why did you slap my child?” I’d be like, "thank you for saving my child!” But like I said, I probably wouldn’t even have tried to compare the difficulty of the two situations had it not been for the initial comparison in the discourse.

#sansa stark #arya stark #robert arryn #sweetrobin #asoiaf #tw rape #tw seizure

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