#narrative foils are a romance trope there i said it | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

bluesadansey · 2 months

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🔥 anything tsc related

the biggest problem with Queen of Air and Darkness to me is that it really should have been two books. I really enjoy the grief exploration in that book in the wake of Livvy’s death felt cathartic to me on reread and I find Julian’s switch-off arc in relation to that fascinating. I enjoy Thule in terms of how it ties into the main arc with the blackthorns although I’m not crazy about the twp set ups from it. Basically there’s quite a bit in that book I do like but as a finale it’s rushed and disappointing. I also do think either Julian or Emma or both dying would have made the ending slay and I say this as someone who clearly looooves them both and Blackstairs (considering how much I love blackstairs as it is think I would be even more insane about it if we got full tragic potential realized).

Grace x Lucie is thee toxic yuri dynamic in tsc and I think ya’ll are cowards for not paying attention to it. Literally the only reason I would reread tlh is to write fic about them ChoI era because someone should.

on a related note Lucie Herondale reads as a lesbian to me, she says at one point she’s never been attracted to a boy other than Jesse who is kind of a phantom she can make into whatever she wants / project storybook romance tropes onto in a sense for most of the books and she reads as more attracted to Cordelia with the whole ‘Beautiful Cordelia’ fanfiction and like I said her most interesting dynamic with the most chemistry is her and Grace, so yeah I get comp het vibes personally I know that’s my subjective read.

I’m pretty neutral on Clary sometimes I really liked her sometimes I was frustrated by her but I do think this counts as unpopular since most either hate or love her. I do think she falls into the 2010s heroine who is written to have an overly romantically focused arc but all her interesting bits of characterization are about tangential platonic dynamics that the author doesn’t care to elaborate on much… but also this could be an ungenerous or overly generous assessment since it’s been years since I touched og tmi. I do side eye some people for giving Jace a lot of grace to be ‘complex’ and process his trauma and be dismissive of how much she goes through in the books ( I kind of hate Jace. without nuance)

I think I deserve one on one Tessa and Julian interactions in twp, not for any logical reason I just think I deserve it since they’re my two favorite tsc characters. And there’s a lot of fan service in recent tsc anyway… let me have this.

Kieran is overrated I don’t dislike him and enjoy him in the context of Kierarktina and as a foil to Julian, but I don’t fervently love him the way a lot of people do. (I also really disliked his fandom when the tda books were coming out so that might influence this).

I want Thule! Emma to come into play in twp … I’m very interested in the idea of her in the aftermath of Thule Julian and Sebastian’s deaths. I had an idea for a fic about her but didn’t write it partly because of laziness partly because I felt I’d have to go back to tmi to remember endarkened lore for that.

Grace Blackthorn discourse was kind of unserious… not because I don’t think people can have valid reasons to dislike her obviously those exist. What she did to James was sexual assault and of course fans who hate her for it are valid. But I COULD NOT with some of statements about her especially on twitter that were like ‘well if she was a Male Character ya’ll would never forgive her and she would never get a redemption arc she only does cause she’s a pretty white girl’ like GORL. GORL what universe are you living in what paranormal/fantasy media do you consume and engage in fandoms for if you think that a male character who does a nebulous magical consent violation is going to get Less grace (no pun intended) from the narrative and fandom than a female character and would NEVER get a redemption arc. I can’t even ya’ll are dumb. If I’m being really generous maybe they just don’t read/watch a lot of paranormal media other than tsc because otherwise I…

Thanks for the ask <3

(send me a 🔥+topic/fandom and I’ll give some unpopular opinions)

#asks #tsc #tda #tlh #tmi #chaosandtwo #mutuals #sa mention #sorry but me as someone who blogs about TVDu reading that: you have to be Kidding me 😭#more like if she were a man she would have ended up with the love interest she violated and gotten everything she wanted #s speaks

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straightbaittournament · 9 months

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only the straightbait with the lowest percentage will be eliminated; everyone else goes on to round 2! propaganda under the cut:

kit tanthalos and graydon hastur:

Classic arranged marriage trope but the she-hates-him part never goes away because she’s in love with her best friend/bodyguard Jade

tobias funke and debrie bardeaux:

It’s maybe not exactly right but Debrie starred in a series of softcore gay porn films called Straightbait where she seduces a guy but tells him he has to sleep with another man before he sleeps with her to prove how attracted to her he is, thus proving he isn’t gay. Tobias is also super gay. They date for like 40 episodes and raise a son together. Tobias gets left by his first wife for not being sexually attracted to her and then has an affair with a gay porn actress from a series called straightbait I just think it’s pretty funny.

izuku midoriya and ochako uraraka:

It’s the classic main character x friend who is a girl ship. They have no actual romantic interactions outside of their friendship. Ochako has “feelings” for Izuku, but they are clearly feelings of friendship until one of her friends insists that she must have a crush on Izuku, making her feel confused and embarrassed. Izuku clearly sees Ochako as a good friend, but when they first meet, he blushes and thinks “I can’t believe I just talked to a girl.” On the same day, he also blushes when he sees that a famous male hero is proctoring their exams. It’s literally so boring as a romantic ship. They have no chemistry as a couple.

willow park and hunter:

THEY ARE NOT STRAIGHT THEY R BI4PAN BUT IT IS AN M/F RELATIONSHIP They are an M/F relationship in The Gay Show and they are hinted and teased but never confirmed

travis touchdown and sylvia christel:

in the first game travis spends the entire game trying to get with sylvia (HE FAILS MISERABLY) and inbetween the sequel and the spin-off they get married, have kids, you know the drill HOWEVER COMMA in that same period of time travis runs away from said family and later moves in with a man. So.

raleigh becket and mako mori:

Literally everything about the writing of Pacific Rim make it seem like they're setting up for a romance between these two and then they just. Don't. Despite this, "drift compatable" was one of the most popular AUs for couples after the film came out for a hot minute because of how romantic they made the concept seem. *gestures to the entire movie* seriously

jeff winger and britta perry:

the show starts off with jeff creating the study group so that he can get with britta, they serve essentially as narrative foils, with jeff not caring about people and britta caring too much about people, they nearly get married on THREE (3) separate occasions, they're secret friends with benefits for an entire season but break up when the group finds out, they're the only two people from the core group left in greendale when the show ends; but in the end they make jeff's "true love interest" the girl who was half his age when the show started (36/18)...

asuka tenjoin and yuki judai:

The ship name (fianceshipping) comes from the episode where Judai *accidentally* duels some guy to become Asuka's fiance (said guy never asks Asuka how she feels about this, ugghhh greater Duel Academia student body be normal about ladies challenge). Turns out that he *didn't know what a fiance was* and just wanted to have a good ol' time cardgaming. I think that this says more about this ship than anything else I could tell you. During the final season, Asuka almost confesses to him but cuts herself off & they then thank each other for giving each other some clarity of mind because they're both going through pretty rough times at that point in the plot. Looks concerningly like they're about to do a whole "ohh we need to make the main girl and boy romance out of obligation" bit and then they just don't do it. It's great. I have no idea if this counts because I didn't personally feel baited but I think they're very fun as a pair and I like them 🫡. judai is the gayest guy of all time (subtext) and im like 80% sure asuka was experiencing comphet bc he's the only guy in their grade that treats her like a person. besties 4ever!!!!!!!! straightmod has been informed that judai is also textually queer because he is canonically attracted to a non-binary character.

kwan and win:

This is a Thai teen drama that focuses on many teens going through hardships and it's very dramatic and very fun I love it so much THESE TWO. They circled around each other for two whole seasons and the tension was there!! He was a bad boy, she was a good girl, every time they spoke there was something in the air. They were both arguably the leads of an ensemble cast and it really felt like they were being set up to get together but then it just... never happens. This show has been out for 10 years and I'm still mad about it. THE WASTED POTENTIAL OF IT ALL

valkyrie and thor:

Like a lot of ships with a white man and a woman of color, their chemistry and history get shunted to the side by racist writers and fans who refuse to acknowledge them as anything other than friends.

good luck everyone! now go vote!

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mycomicbox · 2 months

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Random Thoughts on Persona 4 Golden - Part 3

(I have completed the game, maxed out every Social Link, and viewed all endings. Spoilers ahead, of course.)

<<< Part 2

Forgot to mention this in earlier posts, but I really like the small town setting of Inaba. As someone who's also from "the sticks", it hits pretty close to home for me personally.

I could be wrong, but I remember reading somewhere that Naoto canonically uses bandages to hide her chest?? I've heard from transmasc folks that doing stuff like that is kind of unsafe. Like, bro, get a binder.

One thing I do like about the story's themes is about how the overflow of information affects people's views of the world and themselves. It still holds up today.

Unfortunately, I do have to admit that I was spoiled as to who the culprit was, but luckily, I wasn't spoiled as to his motive, methods, or abilities. I think that Adachi makes a nice foil to the protagonist: while Yu's power comes from his bonds with others, Adachi is misanthropic and nihilistic. (Someone could probably go into more detail, but these are my random thoughts, not a full narrative analysis).

Yosuke makes another Persona 3 reference during the ski trip, you love to see it.

To think that Marie wasn't in the PS2 version of Persona 4... 'tis a shame. Her dungeon has some great aesthetics, and it was genuinely kinda challenging.

The first hot spring scene was bad enough, did we really need another one!?

Power of friendship trope my beloved

Over 100 hours poured into this game and I still can't decide if I hate or love Teddie.

Overall, I did enjoy my time with Persona 4 Golden, despite the problems I had with it. Fun gameplay and interactions can carry you through whatever other shit the story throws at you.

Like I said in the previous two posts, my main issues lie with how the writers treated Kanji and Naoto. It's like they wanted to explore queer themes, but chickened out. And don't forget about Yosuke's unused romance lines.

For a game who's whole theme is facing one's true self, it doesn't quite deliver on its promise.

Still, I can't deny that I got attached to this group of knuckleheads. They really do feel like lifelong friends.

Persona 4 doesn't need a remake as badly as the earlier titles in the series, but when it eventually comes, I hope that it'll shed itself of its dated writing choices and become the best game that it can possibly be. ATLUS is probably aware that it wouldn't fly in the current year, so we'll see what the future holds.

And speaking of the future...

#i talk #my gameplay #persona series #persona 4 #persona 4 golden #smt persona

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heyninja · 2 years

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Kim and Vegas and Narrative Foils

OK, OK, so first and foremost: yes, Kinn and Vegas are set up to be the primary foils of each other inasmuch as what it looks like to be the scion of a mafia family. Now, if you're really, really lucky, with a good ensemble cast, good writers, and a complex plot--you might get more than one foil at a time. And KinnPorsche is absolutely doing that right, left, and center.

And I think that Kim and Vegas, as they have been shown so far approaching romance, are meant to be narrative foils for each other.

To get it out of the way: this does not mean that I dislike Kim (or honestly Vegas, he's very compelling) it just means that there some narrative meat to sink my teeth into and I am going to be the meta I want to see in the world.

So some good ole compare and contrast action!

Kim and Vegas will both allow or encourage other people's feelings in order to open up opportunities for their interests.

Kim wanted to know more about Porsche, in the interests of mole-hunting and his yet-unexplained murderboard, and Porsche's less prickly younger brother is probably the best bet for intel. Kim had a sense that Chay was a little starstruck, and then after his little trip through Chay's room absolutely knew that there was an in there that he then encouraged: little bits of affection, private lessons, assigning a love song rather than any other genre.

Vegas tries to be the person he thinks Porsche wants, based on various interactions (and probably some mole intel)--he tries to show that his world is closer to Porsche's world rather than the rich castle he's been in with Kinn: Vegas is accessible, sensual, and offering touches of freedoms he thinks Porsche-who-can't-follow-rules would desire.

How Kim and Vegas handle people who have served their usefulness is completely different.

Kim did kinda ghost Chay, but it's shown in small moments that he thinks of Chay fondly. That he even still thinks of Chay at all. And he could keep the lines open, just here and there little moments, if he wanted to, and Chay would probably just be thrilled. There is no tactical benefit to kissing him, to falling asleep with him, that did not exist before he did those things. He did his best to stop Chay's abduction, and he personally made sure Chay was safe. Even though it's clear he was trying to cool the relationship with Chay, Kim's personal feelings are evidently there, and he is letting them influence him a bit.

Vegas...well, Vegas cultivated the entire relationship with Tawan as a revenge against Kinn. He's already admitted that what he wants is to take Kinn's things. And so he took Tawan. Even bringing Tawan back, to try to confuse things, to do whatever plot he had planned before it went to hell--Tawan stopped mattering the minute he said yes to the plan. Vegas put all his attention after that on trying to steal Porsche (and uh...you know, cutting Kinn's legs out from under him in general, but right now it's a bit difficult to know what's Minor Family trying to take power and what's Vegas's personal envy exactly right this second). And when everything just went straight to hell, he turned on Porsche to make him part of the fall--just to take more things away from Kinn.

So why do I keep harping on this.

So we've made it through roughly 3/4 of KinnPorsche and the show has consistently taken BL tropes and storytelling devices and either outright smashed them or taken a step to the left. The writers are good. They are rewarding us every step of the way, and frankly this is one thing I want to see them get credit for as well--that they've layered this narrative so well that there's more than just a single foil for each protagonist and then off on our merry way.

This plot is complex, the characters are complex, this show is full of narrative coils and loops and fun things.

What I want to see is Kim forcefully breaking his narrative foil tie to Vegas. Vegas wants what he can use, and then he prunes back anything that doesn't Serve. He never gives up power willingly.

This narrative is so complex that I don't expect anything nice and neat, but I'd like to see Kim taking it hard that Chay hates the mafia, what the mafia has done to Porsche, and that Kim wasn't entirely truthful about himself. I want to see Kim having to be emotionally vulnerable to Chay, someone who very much expects that you say the words you mean and hates liars, and I want to see Kim have to meet that standard.

Again, I do not think Kim is a bad guy--he loves his family and he has his reasons--but Kim has been in a relative position of power this whole time: so I'd like to see him do what Vegas would never do. I want to see Kim give Chay the power that he so far has been denied having (through ignorance, through circumstance). I'd like to see Kim actually chase Chay, actively work to get back in his good graces, actively work to be the person Chay clearly thought he was (minus the mafia things). And writing him an adorable love song back wouldn't hurt.

Honestly I think setting up this small situation of Kim and Vegas being foils is fantastic.

It gives us all the chance to see more of Kim's personality, and it shows off the skills of the writers to layer these things in. I just wanted to say something because it isn't actually bad that the parallels caused viewers unease--foils often are meant to prick at you until the plot at the heart of it resolves--and it doesn't mean that we think Kim is necessarily a bad person.

But it is good to look at how the narrative is setting up Kim versus Vegas as two people who make use of the power they cultivate in their (shown) relationships, and how the narrative is resolving that duality. And maybe this will help someone out there who felt some unease about Kim and didn't know why, but still liked the character--hopefully this helps?

#kinnporsche #kinnporsche meta #kinnporsche ep 10 #vegas #kim theerapanyakul #again: i don't dislike kim #it's just the narrative has been doing a thing #and a lot of people were picking up the vibe #but i don't know that everyone could articulate what that vibe was #so i hope this helps?#narrative foils are fun #and honestly this show is just throwing them out left right and center #the writers are too good to us and my standards are forever altered

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infernal-feminae-archived · 11 months

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RELATIONSHIP TYPES

@phoenixborn said: Relationship meme, prepare!

For Erebus:

❤️ committed, romantic relationship

💘 friends to lovers

💧 friends due to traumatic experiences

🏫 university sweethearts

For Sakuya (before the Erebus arc):

🧡 friends with benefits

👄 a sexual, non-romantic relationship

💜 friendship (after Erebus)

For Beelzebub:

💟 developing sexual relationship ( may include romance )

🧡 friends with benefits

💖 a sexual relationship that could turn romantic

👄 a sexual, non-romantic relationship

🏩 sexual relationship of convenience

For Vaggie:

🌈 developing friendship

💧 friends due to traumatic experiences

⚡ sparring partners

💗 slow burn

💘 friends to lovers

For Summer:

🌈 developing friendship

☀️ friends of circumstance

💜 friendship

💙 queerplatonic partners ( an intimate, non-romantic committed relationship )

💘 friends to lovers

💗 slow burn

💬 enemies arguing because of conflicting ideologies

For Scarlet:

👨‍👩‍👧‍👦 adopted family

🧑‍🤝‍🧑 family by choice/found family

👯partners in crime trope (in which Cindy gruesomely murders Crimson-)

☕ one muse works in service of the other (Cindy can (and wants to) help a little with the shop such as arranging flowers by species, colors or meanings)

For Darcy:

💜 friendship

👯partners in crime trope

🤝 coworkers (Cindy's own Agent verse)

🏫 university sweethearts

💕 mutual pining

💘 friends to lovers

For Hestia:

🗡️ one-sided rivalry/grudge ( University verse, most likely from Hestia XD)

👔 strangers working together

⛔ reluctant friends

💙 queerplatonic partners

💗 slow burn

For Gabriel:

🧠 enemies as narrative foils (wouldn't really say enemies though)

💬 enemies because of conflicting ideologies

⛔ reluctant friends

There's no symbol for Cindy hearing her deepest desire to be free and tries to just do that because God can suck it and Gabriel deserves better.

I don't know yet for Charlie & Milky👀

YES!!!!! YES TO ALL OF THIS!!!! I’m especially eyeing that one for Gabriel because yes, she does deserve better and it would fun to watch her and Cindy’s progression to reluctant friendship lol.

#❖ɢʀᴇᴍʟɪɴ ʙᴇʜɪɴᴅ ᴛʜᴇ ꜱᴄᴇɴᴇꜱ: ᴏᴏᴄ #❖ᴄᴀɴ'ᴛ ᴄᴏᴍᴍɪᴛ ᴛᴏ ᴀɴʏᴛʜɪɴɢ ʙᴜᴛ ᴀ ᴄʀɪᴍᴇ: ᴀꜱᴋꜱ #long post #phoenixborn

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cemeterything · 4 years

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narrative foils to lovers

#narrative foils are a romance trope there i said it #also this isnt aboutyour ships this is about my ocs #jim.txt

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elfilibusterismo · 3 years

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ride or die, the mirror, and the narrative foil trope: the essay

written for the final day of @rodappreciationweek 2021. here i'll be discussing ride or die's use of the image of the mirror and the use of the narrative foil trope, specifically with mc versus five characters: logan, colt, mona, jason, and ingrid.

ride or die arguably is one of the best choices stories which make use of the narrative foil trope. others that come to mind are blades of light and shadow and surprisingly, foreign affairs (which i've touched a bit on here, but it’s executed far more weakly than blades or rod, mostly due to the storyline being a standalone when it was obviously planned to not be).

i. the mirror

ride or die is a coming of age story. it’s all about a girl figuring out who she is and her first experiences in romance and everything in between, we all know that. and when you have a story that focuses so much on figuring yourself out and finding your place in the world, the first question you ask is “who am i?” — an introspective question that can be akin to looking into the mirror.

which, coincidentally, is how the book opens. MC is shown to look at herself in the mirror both literally and metaphorically. first in the car chase with logan:

and when she wakes up that same day:

but just as the book starts with the mirror, it ends with it as well:

after MC looks at herself in the mirror, the player is given the choice to define MC. what is MC feeling? is that really her? how does she look like? ala mulan reflection who is that girl i see. and it all fits well as ride or die, at its core, is a coming of age story.

ii. logan

logan is the first LI introduced in the story. aside from being MC’s potential LI, he is also narratively used to show MC everything she isn’t. while all the LIs are different from MC by virtue of them all being criminals and having a more jaded view of the world, it’s most reflected in logan. the line i see this most come out is in his chapter 3 diamond scene:

logan also goes on to mention how he doesn’t know where his mother is. you could say he “lost” his mother, similar to how MC lost her mother years ago. the difference is that logan’s mother was in the world of crime, as she was in prison and gave birth to him prison; MC’s mother married a detective.

he then tells the story of how he totalled his first car because he was reckless. contrast to chapter 15, MC also gets her car fucking rolling in the parking lot, but by the next chapter we see it repaired. the difference between them was that MC was the one in control of the situation i.e. setting a trap for the brotherhood. and in turn, she gets to keep her first car, unlike logan.

iii. colt

colt is the second LI introduced in the story. colt mirroring MC is the most obvious out of the characters, IMO. his father is the head a crime group, MC’s is the head of capturing said group. they both have fathers who want to control where they go in life, and they both want to prove themselves to said fathers.

if you pick colt in chapter 11, manipulative ass bastard (who we love anyway) he may be, it’s demonstrated how colt and MC have a understanding of each other due to their similar experiences.

in chapter 14, if you chose colt to take you to the prom and pick the option to dance with him (instead of kissing him), the narration uses the term twin stars circling each other, further showing how MC and colt are similar. contrast that to logan’s line in the final chapter where he says he was “just a rock in space lucky enough to burn in your atmosphere.”

iv. mona

mona is the third LI introduced and like many fem LIs, is locked behind the paywall. in chapter 9, we learn more about mona. how she wasn’t born to be as cynical as she was, how she was just like MC, until she met a girl and thought it was love.

you could say that mona has more in common with MC than colt does, and yeah kinda lol. but at this point, colt is meant to mirror MC as she is the present, while mona is meant to show us how MC could turn out to be in the future if she chose to lead the life of crime. it’s especially more prevalent if MC’s primary love interest is mona.

however, unlike mona, MC doesn’t get sent to jail and survives the encounter with the brotherhood because the people she meets truly care for her, if not love her. mona, even if arguably a bit OOC, takes a bullet for her, saving her the way mona’s former girlfriend didn’t for her.

v. ingrid and jason

both jason and ingrid work as narrative devices to show us that MC cannot have it all.

the first chapter foreshadows that MC will inevitably have to make the choice between her two lives. she can’t have it all. and even despite riya’s encouragement, mc is not ingrid.

however there is one more character who just as similar to MC as colt is to her, and you could also argue even more, and yes that is everyone’s least favourite cunt, jason shaw.

the book makes it explicitly known that shaw and MC are foils. it’s a lot more “in your face” and conveniently not paywalled (compared to the LIs), as it should be, because it adds a great layer to the story. and of course, not to mention, it’s technically the primary source of conflict in the story.

MC and shaw are both living two lives they can’t reconcile, and they both know they can’t have both.

but the difference between MC and shaw is that shaw still tries to have both, and that’s what makes him fall. MC, in contrast, i like to interpret as her leaving both behind but creating a new life for herself from those experiences.

which is why i find the ending of rod so great, especially for MC. she’s heading to the east coast, to her dream school, the one she lived the “honor roll, goody two-shoes” life to achieve. but she’s heading there in a car given to her by people in her second, adrenaline-filled life, the same people who gave her the chance to be who she really wanted to be. the ending wasn’t her choosing the quiet life she had before mercy park, it’s her putting the two together and moulding one that isn’t entirely dictated by others.

ride or die is a seriously incredibly choices book and i’m so glad i looked past the whole “bad boy romance” tagline and gave it a try. granted, what i said above isn’t the only parts which make it narratively great (there’s the whole colt and teppei icarus and daedalus, and how riya and darius are used as narrative devices as well) but i hope i at least gave light to some parts which i loved about it.

if you made it this far, you’re the mvp lol

screenshots taken from AppGames Live Too, Abhirio, and choicesfromashes on youtube.

#rodaw #playchoices #choices #ride or die #logan rod #colt kaneko #mona rod #jason shaw #ingrid delaney #rod mc #choices meta #choices ramblings #***#***rod #***writing #posting this 12am aug 12 lol it should still be aug 11 somewhere right #how fitting that im talking about a story which starts on the mc's bday and posting it on mine #i am self centered <3 jk but am i

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smokeonshadows · 3 years

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We need to talk about the Bobbseys

Strap in, kids. This is going to be...a lot.

To put it bluntly, the way the Bobbseys were handled was messy, unnecessary, and probably the worst thing about an otherwise great season.

It's really disappointing because the Nancy Drew writers have already proven themselves to be not only good writers, but also socially conscious writers. They actively and publicly aim to be inclusive in their storytelling, so I think it's fair to hold them to that standard.

There was a lot of potential in the Bobbseys–they're a morally ambiguous brother-sister team of codependent twins from a rough/tragic past who sometimes lie, cheat, and steal in order to make ends meet. This is interesting, this is full of possibilities as to how they could fit in with the Drew Crew, and, most of all, this was a great opportunity to have complex representation of the south asian community that subverts popular stereotypes (model minority, traditional upbringing, perpetual foreigner, etc.). Amanda and Gil would've been great characters in their own rights...but instead they were used as nothing more than cannon fodder for an unnecessary, half-baked love square with low key racist undertones.

Problematic elements

I've already talked about the racist undertones in previous posts, but in a nutshell, Gil is portrayed as being controlling/aggressive/domineering (particularly towards Nancy and Amanda) and it's a stereotype that south asian men (and I'd say black and brown men in general) are misogynistic, aggressive, and otherwise abusive towards women. This portrayal is made even worse because he's meant to be a foil for Ace, a soft/gentle/sensitive/emotionally stable white guy who Nancy is obviously meant to be with. And for Amanda, she's also portrayed in line with the stereotype of asian women being very submissive (particularly to their male counterparts). I don't think any of this was intentional, but it's just not a good look.

This problem could've at least been somewhat alleviated if Gil and Amanda had been written as fully fleshed out characters who were going on their own journeys and were consequential to the story, but that didn't happen.

Stereotypes aside, another problematic aspect of the Bobbseys is that they both fall into the unfortunately common trope of being the character of color that the white character has a superficial relationship with and leads white character to realizing that they should actually be with this other white character who's been there all along.

Even when they have roles in the episode apart from being superficial love interests, oftentimes they don't do much aside from being useful for getting the Crew from point A to point B of a mystery.

Underdeveloped relationships

Was I the only one who found the resolution of the Nancy x Gil relationship in the season finale to be a bit abrupt?

While I appreciate that they showed how seemingly small transgressions within relationships can actually be red flags and that a situation doesn't need to escalate to full-on physical abuse in order to count as domestic violence, I found that the moment when Nancy has this realization and then breaks up with Gil lacked the emotional weight befitting that situation. I think this was the case because Nancy and Gil barely had a relationship. There was attraction and sexual tension, they hooked up a few times, but it was never shown to be a real relationship. It's not just that we didn't often see them together, but with or without him, Nancy didn't think much about Gil or what he thought of her and, more importantly wrt the breakup, we aren't shown all the ways that his treatment of her affected her sense of self or the way she operated. Nancy's relationship with Gil was inconsequential, so the stakes were low.

And yes, casual hookup situations can also turn abusive, but from a narrative standpoint, the way this particular situation was portrayed, it was given both more and less weight than it should've been given. It felt like the writers wanted the breakup to be big and impactful but they not only didn't work for that payoff, they also wanted to resolve it quickly so they could move onto more important plot points (the breakup was at the beginning episode and Nancy never mentions it or even hints at any emotional fallout from it ever again).

(Amanda was done dirty)

Actually, if anything, the big dramatic breakup should've been between Amanda and Gil. Even with her severely limited screentime, almost every time we do see Amanda, we are reminded of how close she is with Gil, how badly he treats her, how much she values his opinion, and how smothered she feels by him. And it sucks that we never actually get to see Amanda make the realization, stand up for herself, and confront Gil. All we see is Ace encouraging her to break away and then cut to her living her best life post-sibling breakup.

In the end, it's as if Amanda's pain and suffering was made to be less about her and more about Nancy/being evidence that Gil is not good for Nancy. Again, not a good look.

And Amanda and Ace's relationship is also underdeveloped compared to the impact that the writers seem to want it to have. Like, I don't understand why Ace would give her a pseudo-ultimatum ("I'll prioritize you if you prioritize me") at this stage of their relationship. Yes, they do seem to be more of a relationship than Nancy x Gil, but it always felt like they were very much in the budding romance stage. While he does talk about her when they're apart, we still rarely saw them interact with each other outside of the context of Ace needing to use Amanda's connection at the hotel or to her father or brother in order to help solve the mystery. And we don't learn more about or see a different side either character through their relationship with each other.

Poorly executed, unnecessary love triangles

The whole point of having a love triangle is to raise the emotional stakes.

It's always been my belief that if you're going to have a love triangle, you need to commit to it. That means making both legs of the triangle equally viable, developing both romantic options and both relationships equally.

As noted in the sections above, this was not the case with either love triangle, which makes the whole thing feel cheap and unsatisfying. Like I said in a previous post, I think it would've been more powerful if Nancy had two really great options, but in the end chose Ace because that’s what her heart really wants no matter how great the other guy is.

Anyone with a healthy understanding of love and relationships would choose Ace over Gil. It's no contest, no real choice, so it adds nothing to the conversation, it says nothing about Nancy or her feelings for Ace. It's inconsequential, the emotional stakes are practically nonexistent.

Literally, I feel like if you took the Bobbsey love triangles out of this season, Ace and Nancy would still end up in pretty much the same place wrt their feelings for each other. I mean, yes, the whole jealousy/green eyed epiphany thing did play a role, but the relationships with the Bobbseys featured so little and were so underdeveloped that it would be more or less the same as one of them flirting with a background character every once in a while.

And Nace still didn't end up together after all that! It's hinted that for some reason, Ace will be stringing Amanda along next season while he pines for Nancy. Which is exhausting.

This is really what we sacrificed two perfectly interesting characters of color for. I'm upset.

#nancy drew cw #gil bobbsey #amanda bobbsey

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hamliet · 3 years

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Hello, how are you?

Sooooo, this is a very broad and confusing question... you've talked about emotional energy (I think this was the term) in manga, and how it was not always characterized as romantic. Excluding the dynamics we associate with "obvious" main pairings (like IzuOcha, Ed x Winry), is there anything in a narrative, in manga, that would make you immediately label an interaction as romantic (or, otherwise, as platonic)?

Hi! And yes, honestly, but a lot of it depends on context, culture, etc. But I've talked about some of these at length before.

For romance, there are universal and cultural-specific tropes that can be relied on (yin/yang imagery, Jungian symbolism, yonic/phallic imagery as metaphor, alchemical imagery of chemical weddings, etc). There are other literary devices too, like foiling (for example, foiling a pair of characters with other pairs that are definitively romantic implies the author at least wants you to consider these two in a romantic light; if they aren't romantic, why is probably important). These aren't inherently always romantic, but often are.

Otherwise, there are little "cues" or coding that can be used to frame an interaction:

Blushing, stuttering, acting differently (protective, kindly when normally they're cold, etc) around a certain character: if you have a character doing one of these things for one character in particular, the author probably intends for you to interpret them as having a close relationship. The blushing/stuttering is almost certainly a crush. While I often see people when analyzing a story say "well, we can't know how X character feels just because Y has a crush"... that's true but it's fiction: if the crush is introduced, it's going to be important, and the most common way to resolve introduced romantic feelings in a text is through reciprocation.

Another idea I've seen a lot is other characters teasing one character about their relationship to another, or noticing that there's something "unique" about this relationship. See, everyone teasing Eren and Mikasa in SnK, or in Game of Thrones, Davos commenting to Jon “I’ve seen you staring at [Daenerys].”

Also, dialogue can be used. This is harder in translation because it tends to be lost, but not always. Basically, when someone makes a double entendre or uses words in a specific context that could be construed as something else in another context (romantic in this case; sometimes sexual), the writers are probably intending for you to think of the other context. This is not saying the scene's context is equivalent to the reference or that the reference is actually happening (the characters in their first meeting are probably not romantic yet nor having sex), but it is used to add extra meaning to scenes.

For platonic... also yes, there are some clues in regards to framing. I've talked before about the very popular RWBY ship Nuts n' Dolts, between Penny Polendina and Ruby Rose. Penny's death aside, the last few episodes of Season 8 went kind of above and beyond with all the above to emphasize that it is platonic. I talked about that a bit here. Literarily, the alchemical tropes do not align, but their relationship parallels both platonic and romantic other relationships so it can't definitively be said.

However, the other cues I mentioned are all addressed. While Penny and Ruby's relationship is extremely important and there is a ton of emotional energy there, no one comments on it being unique or teases either of them about it specifically. There's no blushing, no distinct moments where only the two of them can do something together: during the most pivotal scenes, it's Team RWBY together that work with Penny. Penny then hugs all of them, not just Ruby.

There's also deliberate word choice, which is usually the definitive blow: friend. In Star Wars: TFA, the moment Rey kissed Finn on the forehead and said “see you later, my friend,” I figured the ship was unlikely to happen because of “friend” and a kiss on the forehead (though we can talk about how there was mixed coding, because earlier it emphasized Finn having feelings for Rey lol; but that seemed to make it clear on her side). In Penny’s case, it’s even more deliberate: "our friend." "Our" emphasizes it's not inherently unique, and "friend" is a definitive word. In writing, word choice is deliberate as I said above. The repeated emphasis on "friend" (which is used at least four or five times in regards to Penny in the last three episodes, not even counting a character song for Penny released at the end of the season that is literally called "Friend") should tell us something.

#ask hamliet #ramblings #coding

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june2734 · 3 years

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The Short Lived Golden Age of Nerdy Web Shows

There was a time between the years of, let's say, 2007 to 2015 that I like to call the golden age of nerdy web shows. It consisted of a lot of small low to no budget productions that had a lot of heart, the kind you just don't see very often anymore for some reason. Many of these show have found a dedicated home on streaming services like The Fantasy Network, some have even gained enough steam to be featured on big name services like Netflix and Amazon like The Guild and LARPs The series respectively. I'm not exactly sure why the web show trend died out so hard, maybe the crowds just aren't there for them anymore like they use to be with some many pieces of high budget productions on streaming services vying for their attention. Every once and a while I'll jump onto Google to try and find new web shows that have that same heart and feel but rarely if ever do I come up with anything. As far as I can tell the only place new nerdy low to mid budget web shows or films gets any attention is at GenCon or small streaming services like The Fantasy Network. Who knows if there will ever be another nerdy heartfelt web show created that captures the spirit of those old series I hold so dear to my heart, but regardless if it happens or not I'd like to bring some attention to a few of my favorites. They may be old by the standards of the internet and maybe even cheesy by today's standards, but I really think they were something special and if you give them a shot maybe you'll think so too. If you have any others that you think would fit in with shows like this feel free to let me know.

The Gamers: Hands Of Fate

Zombie Orpheus Entertainment use to be one of my favorite channels for nerdy fantasy related content back in the day. You could always see the quality and passion that they put into every piece of content they out out on their channel. They're still around today but they've shifted their focus to other ventures such as the ever popular trend of live streaming table top games rather then making scripted content. That being said their old stuff is still well worth a watch and The Gamers series, particularly The Gamers: Hands of Fate, is some of their best work they’ve ever put out. The series centers around a group of table top gamers(the same that can be found in most of the other The Gamers creations by ZOE), particularly the character by the name of Cass, as he steps into the world of one extremely popular card game hopes of impressing a woman who's a huge fan of it. But this is seemingly simple premise is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to this series. The show also features a secondary narrative that involves the characters that actually exist in the card game as as the players decisions in the real world effect their lives and leads one character, Buckstahue(not sure if I’m spelling that right), in particular to start questioning what mysterious forces are controlling their lives. The show is a real treat filled with twists and turns I never saw coming, it's fascinating seeing how the real world actions of this card game effects the card characters lives as well as question if and when Buckstahue will figure out what strings control her actions. The stories surrounding the other characters in the party might not be as engaging but they are by no means a weak point of the series either, many of their subplots are engaging in their own rights and pay off certain character moments established in proper The Gamers creations. If this peaks your interest then the series can still be found on Zombie Orpheus's Youtube channel or as a movie on The Fantasy Network. ZOE had pivoted more towards live streaming as opposed to the scripted content of their past but I'd love to see more content from The Gamers one day. Source

LARPs The Series

LARPs The Series first premiered at GenCon 2014 and took home the award for Best Independent Series. The year after it was picked up by Geek and Sundry as a part of a push for more scripted content on the channel which was where I and many others first got a chance to watch it. When the short trailer for popped up on the G&S channel everything about it screamed that I was absolutely going to love it, and I wasn’t wrong. The series centers around a 4 man party of larpers (AKA Live Action Role Players) by the names of Will, Brittany, Arthur and Sam and their DM (Dungeon Master) Evan as we follow their lives in and out of the game. The show is surprisingly heartfelt and sympathetic towards the characters involved in this often misunderstood and mocked hobby as it shows how larping enriches their often turbulent lives and connects them all as friends on a deep and meaningful level. These characters felt real and you really rooted for them as they deal with, work, relationships and the many other hurtles of adult life as they wait eagerly to gear up for whatever peril might befall them in their next campaign session. The show was also pretty hilarious, seeing them play out classic predicaments that any party, whether they be larpers or table top roleplayers, have experienced such as one player trying to roll to kill a tavern owner or romances between PCs were always a joy to watch unfold. Another thing that most will notice right away is how the production value and direction are surprisingly astounding as well, especially in season 2. I was shocked by just how much quality was put into the show from the costumes and sets as well as from a writing standpoint. If you're interested in checking out the show then it can be found on Amazon Prime but they can also still be viewed for free on YouTube or in The Fantasy Network. Beanduck, the production company behind LARPs The series, is working towards a funding campaign in hopes of earning enough to produce a third season so if you have any spare change you might want to toss it their way in support. Regardless if you decide to help or not, LARPs The Series is a show that I think any nerdy individual will enjoy. Source

Glitch

Glitch was another show produced by the team over at Zombie Orpheus Entertainment, but it never seemed to get the same kind of love as many of their other productions. The concept was brilliant: What if one day you woke up and found out your life operated on the logic of video games? Well this is the predicament that a programing temp nicknamed Glitch finds himself in. Most episodes of the show centered around particular game mechanics causing problems in his and his friends lives and how he tries to figure out ways to work around or fix problems they've created. Glitch, Wyatt and Samus were all fantastic characters and it was always fun seeing Glitch trying to work through some real world problem with game logic like trying to flirt with a woman he likes using a conversation wheel like in Mass Effect or figuring out how to "defeat" his boss at work who he see's as an actual game boss. Another thing I liked about the show was how the characters really felt like real people I knew, they played games on the couch, debated about which Sci-Fi starship captains were the best, and they grilled each other in nerdy ways while working in slang from their favorite bits of nerd culture into their daily vocabulary. I always hoped that ZOE would eventually put out a second season but unfortunately for whatever reason that never became a reality. Now days the channel that originally hosted Glitch has changed their name to Burger Orchard and rarely if ever uploads anything, but luckily those original episodes of Glitch can still be found on their. Give it a watch, it's short but sweet and if you really enjoyed the show a lot there are little companion shorts that can also be found on the channel. Source

The Street Fighter

The Game Station was an early find for me back in my early college days, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I shaved away many hours watching all kinds of gaming related content on that channel instead of studying for exams. One production, created by one of the channels founders Layne Pavoggi, which came out in late 2011 and was a cut above much their already fantastic content was a short lived series was called The Street Fighter. The series centered around a single dad by the name of Phil who has just lost his job and decides to take up a short career as a professional Street Fighter player to provide for his son as well as keep his mind off of the stressful and highly competitive job market. This a real underdog story that’s extremely reminiscent of old sports 80s films where the protagonist has everything working against them, with that being said you might think that such a trope filled narrative would make things a little predictable and you wouldn’t be wrong but there’s still plenty to love since this concept has really never been explored with videogame to my knowledge. Phil is a guy you’d be hard pressed not to warm up to, especially when you see him interacting with his preteen son Ryan or his best friend/semi love interest Camile (played by former All That star and all around spectacular person Lisa Foiles). Seeing him trying to make his way into the job market, taking odd jobs here and there just to try and get by while also playing Street Fighter to destress and become better for the sake of winning a competition for money to support his son really makes to root for him through all of it. One aspect of the show that I really this is fantastic is how it feels truly authentic to the FGC (Fighting Game Community) when it comes to talking about all of the technical aspects of play Street Fighter on a competitive level. There are moments when Phil goes into detail about his “bread and butter” combos or talks about different strategies when it comes to taking on different characters compared to his main. The show was short lived but it can still be found on The Game Stations channel, if you’re looking for a heartfelt underdog story then I highly recommend giving The Street Fighter a shot. Source

Versus Valerie

Versus Valerie is a bit of series finale for a fictional character created by Hannah Spear for the character more commonly known as the Sexy Nerd Girl on her YouTube channel. Even if you didn't watch the characters vlogs over the years leading up to the web series I still think you'll find something to enjoy in this extremely charming show. It centers around Valerie Lapomme, the titular Sexy Nerd Girl, as she lives life hanging out with with her best friend Guy, shopping for comic books, going on dates, vlogging, and trying to make something of herself as a mid 20 something living in Toronto. The brilliant thing about this series is how each episode is structured like or makes homage to popular shows, films and games such as Star Wars, Doctor Who, Memento, and The Matrix just to name a few. On top of that the show is surprisingly well produced and written for something that spawned from a fictional vlog series, Valarie and Guy are much more fleshed out and all the characters including them have some really fantastic character arcs and moments in the show. Valerie’s awkwardness and extremely nerdy imagination felt embracingly relatable to me personally since I often imagine different situations in my life in relation to my own nerdy fandoms. What I was often taken aback by when I first watched the show years ago was just how enjoyable all of the episodes were in their own special way, and the pay off of it all really feels like a proper satisfying ending to the strange and imaginative journey we’ve been on with Valerie. If it peaks your interest at all then you can still find the full series on the Veruse Valerie YouTube channel as well as some of the vlogs prior to the series on the Sexy Nerd Girl channel as well. It’s well worth a viewing and aside from the fantastic lead characters of Guy and Valerie the show also managed to grab Mark Meer as a supporting character, aka the voice of COMMANDER MOTHER F^*$(^% SHEPARD BABY!!! Source

#Web Shows #geek and sundry #Zombie Orpheus Entertainment #LARPs the series #table top rpg #larping #web series #a few of my favorite things

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swordmaid · 4 years

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like sometimes I cannot fathom the amount of Romance book jb has and I say this as someone who was a casual show watcher first then delved in the books after that train wreck. like germ pulled out ALL the tropes. enemies to lovers, mutual pining, battle couple, soulmates, narrative foils, beauty and the beast, this old white man literally said hey wanna see me write a romance story in under 10 words? and so he did.

#like WOW.#also the anti tw*ncest agenda of affc ...... jam and bri having an actual plot and character arcs .....#love to fuckin see it

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captain-apostrophe · 3 years

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1, 10, 22

1 What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?

Oh, here goes. Please don’t be mad at me if you ship this one folks - I don’t judge you for it, I just can’t join you in it!

XICHENG! You guys, XiCheng. I know it’s popular - I know y’all are wild for it. It’s the second biggest ship on ao3 for this fandom! I just... I just don’t get it. Is it because one of them is nasty and one of them is nice? Is it because we like the symmetry of pairing off both sets of brothers with each other?

Part of why this one also bugs me so much is because the way it is portrayed so often seems to go along these lines: Jiang Cheng is prickly/outright rude, and constantly pushes Lan Xichen away. Lan Xichen ignores said pushing and showers Jiang Cheng with affection anyway, which... is good, I guess? Because he’s pretty? Because he ‘just knows’ that’s what Jiang Cheng ‘really wants’???

Don’t get me wrong, Jiang Cheng needs patience and deserves affection. But it hits a little too close to the gross romance trope of the guy who wears the girl down until she accepts him after all, regardless of how many times she says no. And imo, if there’s one guy in this source material who’s gonna be respectful of consent and boundaries it’s Lan Xichen.

(but as I mentioned when I talked about XiCheng in this answer, it isn’t all bad. I’ve even really enjoyed a couple of fics centred around that ship)

10 Most disliked arc? Why?

I don’t think I’ll be in the minority on this one - Yi City just bums me out just so much. I love the characters, and I appreciate the parallels and narrative foils they give us for the main cast, BUT. But.

Firstly: it’s a bummer. It is just heartbreaking, and as much as I might occasionally enjoy dishing out some angst I don’t tend to enjoy consuming it. And in a story that’s full of heartbreaking situations, the Yi City arc just seems to take the cake for being agonising.

Secondly: whilst, as I said, I appreciate the part it plays in the main narrative... it felt like such a diversion from the main characters’ stories that it was almost distracting. It kinda shows that it was a separate story that MXTX linked in and I think it could have been better served as a standalone/spinoff style narrative, especially because CQL/MDZS has SO MUCH GOING ON already that it was and still is enough of a struggle for me to keep everything straight. I don’t have brain capacity for this too!

22 Popular character you hate?

I answered this one here and here, but with that I think I’m officially out of ideas - I really don’t think I hate anybody who isn’t generally considered to be a total jerk. And even those characters I find usually are complex and interesting enough that I appreciate them and find them fascinating even if they are assholes (like actual serial killer Xue Yang, or murder twink Jin Guangyao).

The only character I truly hate and cannot - will not - ever grant pardon to is Jin Guangshan, and I think we all agree on this point: fuck that guy.

Thank you for the ask! <3

#ask response #salty asks #the untamed

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straightbaittournament · 9 months

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only the option with the least votes will be eliminated! the rest go on to round 3. propaganda under the cut (and more always welcome!):

kit tanthalos and graydon hastur:

Classic arranged marriage trope but the she-hates-him part never goes away because she’s in love with her best friend/bodyguard Jade

tobias funke and debrie bardeaux:

Tobias gets left by his first wife for not being sexually attracted to her and then has an affair with a gay porn actress from a series called straightbait I just think it’s pretty funny. Debrie starred in a series of softcore gay porn films called Straightbait where she seduces a guy but tells him he has to sleep with another man before he sleeps with her to prove how attracted to her he is, thus proving he isn’t gay. Tobias is also super gay. They date for like 40 episodes and raise a son together.

izuku midoriya and ochako uraraka:

willow park and hunter:

THEY ARE NOT STRAIGHT THEY R BI4PAN BUT IT IS AN M/F RELATIONSHIP They are an M/F relationship in The Gay Show and they are hinted and teased but never confirmed

raleigh becket and mako mori:

Literally everything about the writing of Pacific Rim makes it seem like they're setting up for a romance between these two and then they just. Don't. Despite this, "drift compatible" was one of the most popular AUs for couples after the film came out for a hot minute because of how romantic these two made the concept seem. *gestures to the entire movie* seriously

jeff winger and britta perry:

asuka tenjoin and yuki judai:

kwan and win:

valkyrie and thor:

good luck everyone! now go vote!

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comradekatara · 4 years

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I asked this question to another blog but never got an answer. I asked google but I couldn't find anything. How in God's name does me being a zutara shipper (and no I'm not sensoring the name bc why the fuck) make me a racist?

i appreciate the active hostility with which this question was asked. you seem to be really steaming right now, which makes me super inclined to answer your question with patience and respect!

by the way you phrased this, you seem to have made shipping a part of your identity. the phrasing of “a ___ shipper” vs “someone who ships ___” really speaks volumes. i’ve noticed this is the case with a lot of insular fan communities that become heavily attached to a specific romance within the show. especially when said relationship is not canon. i know it’s easy to get riled up over nothing, but i promise you this: you are not under attack. bryke did not slight you by not making your ship canon. no fan of atla is under attack for their opinions on atla. it’s a show. these are not real problems. it is perfectly valid to feel upset over the writing of a show (i, too, for example, think the mai/zuko and katara/aang resolutions in the finale were slapdash, poorly-written, and borderline-misogynistic) but at the end of the day, it’s just a show.

on the other hand, when fans of a piece of media say “hey, this phenomenon (either within the text itself, paratext, or fan engagement) with regards to this thing i like is racist, actually,” they are not just saying “i feel hurt by this fictional narrative,” but they are also saying “this is actively harmful, because even the smallest form of racism is microcosmic of a larger issue that actively gets people killed every day.” (listen. i know this is very obvious to anyone who has ever experienced racism, but i’ve encountered a lot of white people who don’t seem to grasp that racism has explicitly harmful effects, so i thought i would elucidate this matter nonetheless.)

the pairing of zuko and katara, from what i’ve witnessed of fan communities over the past decade, seems to be founded on “the inherent sexiness of antagonism.” i’ve seen people say it’s about the parallels, the yin/yang, the thematic importance of forgiveness, and sure, i’ll give you that. they do parallel each other in resonant, deliberate ways. they are fire and water. katara coming to forgive zuko represents significant growth, and their friendship is poignant and meaningful. but i fail to see how any of this is inherently romantic. it is actually possible to love someone without having sexual chemistry. i know people ship zuko with literally everyone, including twelve year olds, but for a moment let’s put our common sense hats on and assume that it would be absurd to ship him with either aang or toph. shipping him with katara seems just as absurd to me. he certainly comes to respect her a great deal, but at the end of the day, he still regards her as a child. a child whom he loves and respects, but, just like aang and toph, a child nonetheless. katara is fourteen. a grizzled war veteran, yes, but an eighth grader nonetheless. if a junior in high school started dating a fourteen year old, they would be considered a creep. you know why? because it’s creepy!

so back to what you zoot shippers seem to consider the crux of their chemistry: the antagonism. i could easily pull together eight scenes of them getting along, and yet every single gifset i’ve ever seen compiling moments of the two of them includes at least two or three in which katara still wants zuko dead. doesn’t seem very romantique to me! but what i regard as justifiable rage, a lot of you seem to think denotes sexual tension. the thing is, it’s not sexual; it’s just tension. katara has absolutely no reason to like or trust zuko, as to her, he has done absolutely nothing to prove himself distinct from the people responsible for the destruction of her home, the genocide of people like her, the murder of her mother, the spreading of an imperialist colonialist project. she trusted him to side with good in ba sing se, and nearly cost aang his life, so she knows she can’t afford to make that mistake again and risk aang dying. from her perspective, her rage is one hundred percent reasonable, and she has no plans of trusting him ever again, until he actively works to earn her forgiveness. from zuko’s perspective, he was just staring up at the sky, and now this incessant little five year old won’t stop bullying him, which is really annoying, sokka please get your irritating little sister to cut that out, why’s she being so meannnnn :(

when zuko uses katara’s necklace as leverage, that is not sexy; that is him threatening katara with a family heirloom, and all that she has left of her mother. when zuko rolls on top of her to protect her from falling rubble, that is not sexy; that is him not trusting katara is capable enough to protect herself. by the end of the episode, he realizes that she is far more powerful and capable than he ever gave her credit for, and he is awed by her power. him treating her like a child (which, frankly, is fair, because she is) is decidedly not sexy. when zuko jumps in front of lightning for katara, that is not inherently romantic; he would have jumped in front of lightning for momo, and you know it. for one thing, he wasn’t risking a single thing; he was confident that he would be able to redirect it, then azula pointed it at the wrong person, but because he is impulsive, he dove in front of it anyway because he thought he still could redirect it, even though his stance was all wrong. but when actually given a moment to think, he chose katara to fight azula with him because she was the obvious person for the job on every tactical level. she is the most powerful bender he knows. period. water extinguishes fire. and fire is at its greatest and most powerful on this day. he’s not going to let toph into the line of fire; even if suki could fight azula, it would be deeply insensitive to make her considering azula tortured her in the past; and sokka has places to be, he doesn’t have time for your sidequest! katara is obviously the person you take. and there is nothing inherently romantic about zuko’s friendship with her.

ah, but what about that time she touched his scar? was that not an unparalleled act of tenderness? a beautiful moment of gentle caress? i mean, yeah, sure, but i don’t see why that needs to be romantic. i mean, you can read romance into it, if you want to, because, like, i said, sure, but if anything, i think acting like that moment is romantic lessens its impact. this is an important moment for katara; she is humanizing the enemy! this is an important moment for zuko; he is allowing himself to be helped. i could analyze this moment for a writing standpoint endlessly, because it’s beautiful, but i won’t, because that is pointless analysis when i am, instead, trying to explain to you why i think the act of shipping this pairing is more often than not rooted in racism.

i will say this: i don’t think shipping them is inherently racist. i think if you think their friendship has potential for something more, and you think they should have gotten together, you’re not necessarily racist to think so. i think you’re wrong, but racist? well, that’s a different matter. no, i think this ship is rooted in racism for the simple fact that so much fan-generated content i’ve stumbled across over the years has been deeply, horrifically racist. i think this ship also lends itself to that kind of racism because it is so reminiscent of racist tropes that the majority white fans of the ship, either unaware of the harmful connotations of these tropes, or active fans of these tropes, love to employ uncritically. i’ve seen pocahontas aus. i’ve seen beauty and the beast aus (wherein, mind you, katara is the beast...........yes, you read that right). i’ve seen wildly popular fanart that sexualizes katara––who, may i repeat, IS FOURTEEN––in disgusting ways. and most of all, i’ve seen the delegitimization of katara’s anger towards zuko, as if she is simply supposed to “get over” the harm the fire nation has caused her. she is clearly deeply affected by the death of her mother, and zuko used her love for her mother as leverage: first, with her necklace, and second, when he used his empathy over their shared loss as a means of gaining katara’s trust. it’s clear that fans (not all, but many i’ve seen, at least those passionate enough to send me an ask with this phrasing) of this ship don’t actually give a shit about katara’s role as an indigenous woman, or why she would have no desire in dating a colonizer. sometimes it’s clear that people are actually cognizant of this, and even get off on it. they think it’s sexy. they think the racism is hot.

katara and zuko have a fascinating dynamic. they are clear foils, and their relationship is poignant and has great depth. of the little we do see of their friendship, it’s clear that they care about each other a lot. but to imply that their relationship is in any way sexual veers into racist territory really, really quickly. now, i have no idea whether you, yourself are racist. i can guess, based on your phrasing of this ask, and knowing that anyone who thinks that “being accused of racism is worse than racism” is definitely racist, but i’m not going to make any assumptions one way or another. i hope you appreciate my taking the time to answer this, because much like that other blog you sent this ask to, i have absolutely no obligation to. it shouldn’t be my role to educate people on why [x thing] is/can be harmful, especially when they are clearly asking me in bad faith and are likely to disregard everything i just wrote. so all that being said, you’re welcome.

#asks #anon #hot takes #oooh boy #zvtara

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astudyinfreewill · 4 years

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tbh i get queer fans being mad/sad about kavinsky being killed off in that yeah, bury your guys can always be upsetting no matter the character. but it's weird to me when people go the 'he didn't DESERVE it blah blah' route because like, that has nothing to do with the trope. like i agree with queer characters always getting killed off being exhausting, but i don't get people going hard for this particular character lmao

hmm i… sort of agree. i guess i can understand fans being sad about kavinsky being killed off if they empathise with him, even though personally i just… can’t imagine relating to a character like that. but i honestly, genuinely don’t believe he’s an example of Bury Your Gays. it would be BYG if kavinsky was the only queer rep in the books, or even he killed himself specifically for being gay… which, no matter what people argue, he didn’t. but rather than give my opinion on it, i’m gonna take this chance to go through the trope systematically and explain why the shoe doesn’t fit. it’s meta time!

Why Kavinsky Dying is Not “Bury Your Gays”

[All quotes are taken directly from TvTropes, though the emphasis is mine.]

The Bury Your Gays trope in media, including all its variants, is a homophobic cliché. It is the presentation of deaths of LGBT characters where these characters are nominally able to be viewed as more expendable than their heteronormative counterparts. In this way, the death is treated as exceptional in its circumstances. In aggregate, queer characters are more likely to die than straight characters. Indeed, it may be because they seem to have less purpose compared to straight characters, or that the supposed natural conclusion of their story is an early death.

Kavinsky is never viewed as “more expendable than his heteronormative counterparts”. If you see Kavinsky as simply Ronan’s foil, then the reasoning doesn’t apply, because Ronan is gay himself, so he can’t be a “heteronormative counterpart”. However, Kavinsky apologists like to latch on to Gansey’s “We matter” quote to prove Kavinsky is treated as unimportant – but that’s a fallacy for several reasons. First, you’re taking Gansey to speak for the author, or for objective truth, when Gansey is one of the most unreliable narrators in the book, and his world view is extremely biased. Secondly, Gansey isn’t Kavinsky’s counterpart. Kavinsky is an antagonist, so you have to look at what happens to the other antagonists – his actual heteronormative counterparts. And, well: they pretty much ALL get killed off. Not just that, but they often get killed off in a way that does not have the emotional/narrative impact implied in Kavinsky’s death. By that reckoning, he gets the better shake. Additionally, we get 4 heteronormative villains killed off - Whelk, Neeve, Colin, and Piper. So in the series, queer characters are not more likely to die than straight characters (even among the protagonists, Gansey and Noah are the ones who “die”, where Ronan and Adam do not).

The reasons for this trope have evolved somewhat over the years. For a good while, it was because the Depraved Homosexual trope and its ilk pretty much limited portrayals of explicitly gay characters to villainous characters, or at least characters who weren’t given much respect by the narrative. This, conversely, meant that most of them would either die or be punished by the end.

This is not applicable to TRC, as portrayals of explicitly queer characters are not limited to villainous characters; Adam and Ronan are both explicitly queer and they are treated with huge amounts of respect by the narrative. So Kavinsky isn’t being killed for being the odd one out/the Token Evil Queer; plus, there are other reasons why he doesn’t fit the Depraved Homosexual trope (while sexual molestation is a part of this trope, TVTropes encourages you to “think of whether he’d be any different if he wasn’t gay” – and Kavinsky wouldn’t. Not only because DHs are usually extremely camp while Kavinsky’s mannerisms aren’t particularly queer-coded, but also because he is not shown to have any more respect for women than he does for men, and his abuse would look the same if he was straight).

However, as sensitivity to gay people became more mainstream, this evolved into a sort of Rule-Abiding Rebel “love the sinner, hate the sin” attitude. You could have sympathetic queer characters, but they would still usually be “punished” for their queerness in some way so as to not anger more homophobic audiences, similar to how one might write a sympathetic drug addict but still show their addiction in a poor light.

Again: Neither Ronan nor Adam – the two sympathetic queer characters – are punished for being queer, hence subverting this form of the trope.

This then transitioned into the Too Good for This Sinful Earth narrative, where stories would tackle the subject of homophobia and then depict LGBT characters as suffering victims who die tragic deaths from an uncaring world. The AIDS crisis also contributed to this narrative, as the Tragic AIDS Story became its own archetype, popularized by films like Philadelphia.

Okay, this is DEFINITELY not Kavinsky’s case. Kavinsky’s death isn’t specifically connected to being gay (e.g.: a hate crime or an STD), and he’s never depicted as some innocent suffering victim. As for the “uncaring world”… eh. Kavinsky may not have a valid support system, but that’s just as much by choice as by chance - and when Ronan extends a helping hand and tries to save him, Kavinsky rejects it. Too Good For This Sinful Earth is definitely not in play.

The only trope that kind of fits the bill is Gayngst-Induced Suicide… but only on the surface. As TVTrope puts it, Gayngst-Induced Suicide is “when LGBT characters are Driven to Suicide because of their sexuality, either because of internalized homophobia (hating themselves) or experiencing a miserable life because of their “deviant” gender or sexuality: having to hide who they are, not finding a stable relationship, homophobia from other parties, etc.”. Kavinsky certainly has quite a bit of internalized homophobia, but he is absolutely not experiencing a miserable life because of his sexuality – i.e. he’s not being bullied or taunted or subejcted to hate crimes. He doesn’t have to hide who he is: his parents are effectively out of the picture, his cronies worship him, and he constantly makes gay jokes to Ronan and Gansey. As for “not finding a stable relationship”… well that’s not exactly the problem, is it. He’s not looking for a stable relationship – he’s pursuing Ronan specifically, obsessively, through stalking and abuse. So even this trope is not applicable.

And then there are the cases of But Not Too Gay or the Bait-and-Switch Lesbians, where creators manage to get the romance going but quickly avoid showing it in detail by killing off one of the relevant characters.

Once again this is not the case with Kavinsky, as 1) there was no romance going between him and Ronan, and 2) he is not killed off before the nature of his obsession with Ronan is revealed – he gets the chance to both admit (sort of) he wants Ronan, and to confront Ronan about his sexuality, to which Ronan admits that yes, he is gay, but he is not interested in Kavinsky. So, there is no But Not Too Gay nor any Bait-and-Switch here.

Also known as Dead Lesbian Syndrome, though that name has largely fallen out of use post-2015 and the media riots about overuse of the trope. And, as this public outcry restated, the problem isn’t merely that gay characters are killed off: the problem is the tendency that gay characters are killed off in a story full of mostly straight characters, or when the characters are killed off because they are gay.

This is a very good definition of the trope and why it doesn’t apply to Kavinsky: he’s not killed off because he’s gay, and he’s not killed off in a story full of mostly straight characters; TRC is definitely not overwhelmingly diverse, but 2 of the 4 protagonists are queer, giving us a solid 50% ratio (I’m not counting Noah because his “character” status is vague, and I’m not counting Henry because he came in so late, and also because his sexuality is the matter of much speculation).

For a comparison that will make it even clearer: take a show like Supernatural. Supernatural’s range of characters is almost entirely presented as straight white cis men (as of canon – despite much of the fandom’s hopes and speculation). They’ve had problems with diversity in general, with a lot of black characters dying immediately, and a lot of women getting fridged for plot advancement or male angst (a different problematic trope altogether). Now, apart from minor inconsequential cameos, Supernatural had ONE recurring gay character: Charlie Bradbury. And they killed her off for no discernible reason other than plot advancement and male angst, in a context that had elements of Too Good For This Sinful Earth (Charlie being a fan-favourite, ~pure cinnamon roll~, being killed by actual nazis, who historically targeted gay people). See, THAT was Bury Your Gays, AND Dead Lesbian Syndrome, AND Fridging…

However, sometimes gay characters die in fiction because, well, sometimes people die. There are many Anyone Can Die stories: barring explicit differences in the treatments of the gay and straight deaths in these, it’s not odd that the gay characters are dying. The occasional death of one in a Cast Full of Gay is unlikely to be notable, either.

…But that is not the case with TRC. As I’ve said above, there are no explicit differences in the treatments of the gay and straight villain deaths. Kavinsky’s death is not Bury Your Gays; it’s Anyone Can Die – even a protagonist’s foil who has magic powers and is present for most of the book.

Believe me, I would not be cavalier about this. As you rightly said, queer characters always getting killed off is exhausting, and as a bi woman myself, I am deeply affected by instances of Bury Your Gays. When Supernatural killed off Charlie, I wrote a novel-length fix-it fic and basically stopped watching the show – a show I had been following, flaws and all, for 10 years. I don’t take it lightly. But Kavinsky’s death isn’t Bury Your Gays, nor is it homophobia. Sometimes, a character death is just a character death.

#anonymous #answer #meta #trc #trc meta #tropes #joseph kavinsky #mp #my meta

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eirichele · 4 years

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Out of all of the same sex non-byleth endings, what ones do you think should be more explicitly romantic, and which ones should stay platonic?

ojnkkjgf really good question! i’d never really thought about what my conditions are for a “yes this should be canon and it’s not my biases speaking” so it’s interesting to think about. for me it has to be consistent with the support, not Terrible like incest pedophilia etc (bc even if it makes Sense i cant condone it), and fitting or at least not contradicting the themes of the story

answer under the cut cause this got long

should be canon

shamir/catherine: ends in MASSIVE character development for catherine after finding a life outside rhea and developing heroic ideals of her own, follows the consistency of their romantic a+ support discussing marriage. this one is a no brainer imo

caspar/linhardt: it’s a great ending for both characters especially in non cf routes. caspar as the guy who has been second fiddle his whole life finding a purpose on his own as a little folk hero of sorts, linhardt as the nobleman who finally got to reject the system that he hates (and hates him as a gnc bi man) which he only gets to do in like... one other ending. they’re obviously really really fond of each other so even if their support ends in a 100% platonic note it’s believable for them to get together imo.

edelgard/dorothea: consistency with romantic a support. edelgard choosing a regular commoner while surrounded by aristocrats is also a great ending for cf’s story themes and dorothea is the only commoner in the black eagles (who isn’t a genetically engineered emotionless god or whatever for those who want to include byleth in that)

ferdinand/hubert: like cathmir and dorogard, consistency with their romantic a+ support also. fe3h said gaybaiting rights with those stupid ambiguous endings and shippy supports i swear

claude/lorenz: fucking. narrative foils. this one is also a little selfish cause i want canon bi claude that doesn’t depend on m!claudel*th but they genuinely have great chemistry and they’re verdant wind’s narrative soul honestly. i still wish lorenz had been the retainer instead of hilda

sylvain/felix: not a fan of this ship, but healing from past trauma is a huge arc in azure moon. they’ve both been affected by conservative faerghus culture in similar ways so they Get it. a+ support leaves a little romantic implication. they’re also both misogynists and they stay away from women in this ending so win win

should stay platonic:

dorothea/manuela: they met when. dorothea was a literal tiny child and manuela is super fond of her in a motherly way. whoever said this should be canon was a horny man who wanted hot lesbians regardless of how much sense it made and it shows

mercedes/annette: gigantic age gap when they met. annette was 13 and mercedes 19. by the time they’re technically “equals” around annette’s mid 20s/mercedes’ early 30′s their dynamics have probably settled too much into a sibling thing out of habit

dimitri/dedue: a white saviour romance contradicts azure moon’s (attempted cause it sucked) anti racism narrative from the get go. it’s a racist trope luv it has no place in a supposed criticism of it

dimitri/felix: i feel like solving their conflicts would legitimately take decades because they’re the most emotionally stunted men in the cast so i personally think any romantic dimifelix with them younger than 50 years old is just not realistic. i put them here anyway because you know 3h wouldn’t have done that if they’d made it canon and they would have gotten together shortly after the game like every other paired ending which would have been jarring and terrible and a disservice to their pretty well written ruined friendship

#ask #this was fun to answer #Anonymous #long post i Guess cause this website doesnt work

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