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padme-amitabha · 4 years

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Is Anakin and Vader the same person?

I think I have talked about this before but I’ll reiterate the main points.

Of course they are the same person at different points in life. I don’t choose to follow Disney’s interpretation of anything about Star Wars. They hire writers and pay them to write their own fanfiction and interpretation and it’s far from George’s vision so I don’t see any reason to. Only 1-6 movies are canon to me with few exceptions such as 2003 Clone Wars and a few legends material but I’ll always put more emphasis on the movies.

Now from Revenge of the Sith movie we see Anakin become Vader (and by that I mean undergoing a surgery and being put into the suit). While the mask is being lowered we can see the fear in his eyes and his face is still recognizable. Fast forward 23 years and there’s no reason to believe he’s a different person. The only time he talks about his name is when Luke brings it up and he says “that name no longer has any meaning for me” not “I destroyed Anakin” or something similar to that. He is completely right because obviously it doesn’t hold any meaning for him - everyone who called him and knew him by that name (Shmi, Obi-Wan and Padmé) were all dead and his master called him Vader. And he had gotten used to the name in over two decades. Also, Palpatine probably preferred that he distance himself from his past hence referring to Luke as “the offspring of Anakin Skywalker.” Vader wasn’t a personality; it was just a new name he went by and since the mention of his real name brought back unpleasant memories he tried not to think of himself as the same person as a coping mechanism. This is why Vader tells Luke it’s too late for him to redeem himself - because he knows he commited some terrible deeds and hurt his loved ones and he can’t ever take that back. If he wasn’t Anakin, he wouldn’t feel that guilt or remorse for Anakin’s wife and mentor.

It’s the same as Padmé in TPM really - we see Padmé first as Queen Amidala who is a regal authoritative figure and then we see her true self when she’s in disguise.

Anakin winced, then quickly picked up another holograph, this one showing Padmé a couple of years later, wearing official robes and standing between two older and similarly robed Legislators. He looked back at the first holo, then to this one, noting that Padmé’s expression seemed much more severe here. “My first day as an Apprentice Legislator,” Padmé explained.

Then, as if she was reading his mind, she added, “See the difference?” Anakin studied the holograph a moment longer, then looked up and laughed, seeing Padmé wearing that same long and stern expression. She laughed as well, then squeezed his shoulder and went back to her packing.

Anakin put the holographs down side by side and looked at them for a long, long time. Two sides of the woman he loved.

This is from the AOTC novelization and this can be applied to Anakin as well. (More about similarities between Darth Vader and Queen Amidala in this post.) Just like Queen Amidala is really Padmé Naberrie, in the same way Darth Vader is really just Anakin Skywalker.

The reason why he has a different demeanor in OT is mostly due to his age and because he had years to adapt to his new persona. Vader in ROTS didn’t immediately become all stoic and impassive - he got very emotional on hearing Padmé’s death just like he would as Anakin. Vader isn’t some kind of demon possessing Anakin - Vader is Anakin after he has lost everything and he isn’t holding back as he did as a Jedi. It sounds very poetic to state both Anakin and Padmé died on the same day but Anakin truly didn’t though. Anakin lived on for years and died a redeemed man on the death star. The ROTS novelization supports this and it was approved by Lucas so it’s authentic to me.

And there is one blazing moment in which you finally understand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker.

That it was all you. Is you.

Only you.

You did it.

You killed her.

You killed her because, finally, when you could have saved her, when you could have gone away with her, when you could have been thinking about her, you were thinking about yourself …

I do think it was Anakin who choked Padmé on Mustafar even though some people like to blame it on “Vader”. Anakin was unhinged on Mustafar but even in the beginning of ROTS, he was beginning to show some aggression. Though people complain the first part of ROTS is slow and too much happens in the latter half and he falls too suddenly, that’s not the case. This moment has been building up from the very first movie to the first half of ROTS. The fall isn’t just that one action of attacking Mace Windu, he was gradually falling to the dark side for years starting from his mother’s death and he only made the actual decision in the rumination scene. That’s when he finally sheds a tear and makes the conscious decision to join the dark side.

For the record, I think conflict has always been a part of Anakin Skywalker. The prequels portray him in a negative light, particularly in the last two films. Anakin in the movies is a very, very flawed individual and even meant to be unlikable at times. He struggles with his emotions, he struggles to communicate with others and he struggle to fit in the order. I wouldn’t say he was mentally stable either - he could be unpredictable and his actions depend on his mood. But the movies also show the good aspects of him, especially about people he cared about. He even starts off as a kid with a good heart. The conflict and his flaws cause him to fall to the dark side and his good qualities (like selflessness and loyalty when it comes to family) ultimately redeem him.

So I don’t think “Anakin” was the good side of him and “Vader” was the dark side. Vader is Anakin after he has lost everything he cared about and since he is not a Jedi anymore he is no longer required to hold back on anything. Ambition and desire to rule the galaxy is often associated with “Vader” but I think people forget Anakin was just as ambitious and in ROTS being denied the rank of Master deeply upsets him and increases his resentment towards the Jedi. He admitted that he wanted more in ROTS even though he knows he shouldn’t. He also told Padmé in AOTC that he would prefer dictatorship over democracy so it’s not like his ideals changed either. Vader until he discovered he had a son had no interest in ruling the galaxy. Later on he essentially offered Luke the same choice he gave Padmé on Mustafar. From the conversation in AOTC, it seems he’s more dissatisfied with the system and being from a lawless and harsh world he sees dictatorship as the solution. While he doesn’t want to actively take part in it, he wants to enforce the system which is exactly what he does later on (and perhaps he preferred leaving the actual ruling bit to Padmé or Luke). I don’t see Vader as “evil” - I mean the only times he killed people were for failure and he did keep Admiral Piett alive since he proved to be competent. Vader in OT (when Luke isn’t concerned) is just doing his job and punishing inefficient people who aren’t letting him do his job. He only serves the emperor and does his bidding. After Luke rejects his offer, Vader still plans to seek him out but in ROTJ his resolve definitely grew weaker and it’s more like he’s imploring him to reconsider than being forceful.

Anakin as we have seen in AOTC is very much capable of mass murder (and confessed that he felt they deserved it) so should he really be defined as the good side? You could even argue as Vader he killed people for legitimate reasons whereas Anakin killed defenseless people when he was blinded by rage. And even in ROTS he kills Dooku as revenge. I’m not saying Anakin is evil (that would be grossly oversimplying things); I am saying he was a complex character. The reason why he turned out the way he is has already been explored in the prequels but I also believe it’s a combination of nature and nurture. Anakin as a child has a good heart, wants to help others and free the slaves but in TPM script/novelization he lashes out at a Rodian who claims he won the race by cheating, meaning he didn’t handle accusation very well. It might be dismissed as a childish reaction but we see he struggled to control his temper in later years as well. A person has both good and bad qualities and that’s the case with Anakin here, though his negative traits were expressed more. But the prequels are all about exploring his downfall so it was necessary to highlight them.

Anakin to me was never a “hero” who fell to the dark side due to circumstances; he was a complex character who made some hard choices. If the roles were reversed and Padmé was the Jedi with Anakin’s life at risk, I don’t think she would go that far to commit murder. Sure Palpatine is very manipulative but at the same time he understood that it was in Anakin’s nature to be manipulated very easily. You need to have some form of fear, insecurity and resentment in you for someone to utilize them.

I blame TCW, Rebels and the fanboyish Marvel comics for dissociating Anakin from Vader. “Anakin Skywalker was weak, I destroyed him” again makes him very one-dimensional than accepting the fact that people can be morally complex. Not to mention the Marvel comics’ tendency to make him react violently and unnecessarily ruthless to prove he isn’t Anakin drastically reduces his character depth for me. It may also have to do with the fact that movie Anakin was not well-received so they are trying to distance him from Darth Vader, whom fanboys worship. Anakin’s story is incomplete without Vader - he made a choice to embrace the dark side and sacrifice his morality so like the tragic hero he is, he has to suffer and face the consequences for his actions. Similarly, Vader’s story is incomplete without Anakin - without Anakin he is a faceless man. Sure he’s mysterious but without his past we would not know what a complex character he was or sympathise with him.

If Vader wasn’t really Anakin, he wouldn’t have felt remorse for his actions or believe it was too late for him. If he wasn’t Anakin he wouldn’t refer to Luke as his son and if he was so desperate to erase any trace of Anakin, he would have definitely killed Luke as he was a reminder of his past. It was Vader who saved Luke in the end and while it is fine to figuratively say “Anakin was back”, taking it literally undermines his sacrifice. It takes a lot to come back from the dark side, face your demons and after being that way for decades, attempt to redeem yourself when you believe you’re far too gone. He redeemed himself as an old man after a long life full of sorrow and regrets, which also sounds much better than saying “he was evil no longer” and that “Anakin was back”. It makes everything seem black and white and the prequels were essentially all about exploring the gray area. Luke didn’t even know “Anakin” and really where was Anakin when “Vader” cut off his hand? Or fought him? Vader’s inner struggle was between accepting he was far too gone and going on as he did for years, and accepting change, letting it go and forgiving himself for his son’s sake - not a struggle between two personalities fighting to take control. If they were different personalities, Anakin wouldn’t have almost all of Vader’s qualities; he wouldn’t be morally conflicted both as Anakin and Vader. George said the reason why he later replaced his force ghost as a younger version was because he stopped being Anakin after he fell to the dark side and I have to say that’s the only time I disagree with George because Anakin in prequels still had dark tendencies so I do believe Vader never stopped being Anakin hence the original version with the old force ghost made more sense to me and the new version does rob some of the depth from his character. I’m sure George has his reasons - he might have wished to preserve the black and white simplicity of the OT but after the complexity of the prequels, it seems more appropriate for the saga to have a more imperfect, realistic ending. In retrospect, it seems to me they are very much the same person when you study his personality and consider his whole life, which was full of ups and downs.

#ask #my thoughts #anakin skywalker #darth vader

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emeraldsiren19 · 4 years

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Star light, star bright, may TROS die a quick death asap so we can get back to regular scheduled programming

Seriously. We are in month 8 and it still has not faded off into the fucking sunset where it belongs. It was never written for anyone with functioning brain cells who care about the Skywalker saga of the past 40 years. It retcons every.single.fucking.plot.and.detail of 8 prior films because a mass of manbabies demand that every plot fit their final approval.

They hated the original trilogy, they were angry that no one took the garbage EU novels seriously, including Lucas himself, because of the character assassination across the board with no one being true to original personalities. They hated the prequels and bullied at least actor to consider suicide. All of that hostility combined doesn't hold a candle to their repulsion of the sequel trilogy. According to them, the only way to "fix" the mistakes of the originals and prequels is to adapt the EU for film. So enter Kylo Ren instead and you have potential stroke victims in the millions.

The first 2 sequels were perfectly fine storywise, staying true to films before them. 2019 everyone on both sides waited with baited breath for the finale to tie 40 years of movie history up with a pretty bow.

Manbabies were hoping one of their own would "fix everything wrong" with the series, which to them is 8 films prior. After multiple scripts, not counting Lucas being commissioned to co-write the finale to his labor of love and ultimately fired, they got their wish. DLF along with a bad batch of drugs did no due diligence upon hiring Terrio who was hated in the extreme for his DC films. He was very vocal about his stance on the SW franchise that it was an embarrassment to read his opinions, and making claims to justify the bad story that the script changed daily. He wrote the damn thing months prior. The core values of love, family, fairytales, he said was childish and had no place in the saga and explicitly worshipping Luke to the point of squashing everyone else like a bug. They didn't fit in his vision, and Kylo especially didn't. You don't write a death as a "happy ending" or kill off your soulmate/s with an equally nonsensical epilogue that clearly negates everything up to that point, in a fucking family film released at the holidays when people are already fragile, unless you a talentless hack who regularly jacks off to a degree of sadism that would make de Sade roll in his grave.

Don't forget Terrio's cold response to the shock and horror expressed by Daisy and others at the premiere. The entire cast is well justified to break ties with a company that treated them all horribly and even went so far as to bully fans on social media to the point of near suicide. Where have we heard that one before? The erasure and death that DLF promoted was so embarrassing to the media at large that it was memorialized as respectfully as possible by the Oscars and other major companies who stepped up to the plate.

As a result of the trauma, going on 8 months now, you have two extreme camps of thought that run opposite of any other fandom/franchise given the same scenario. Any other fandom would collectively reject the bad never to be mentioned again and make their own head canons. Hence why fanfiction is so popular in our society.

Then you have people who place 10000% of the blame on JJ. Terrio is claimed at any given time to be barely involved even though he is the main storyteller. JJ is hardly the brightest crayon in the box but he doesn't have creativity or mental capacity of his own volition to be that sadistic and stupid. But people say everyday Terrio doesn't deserve any hate. I'm sure the DC fans he fucked over would gladly agree. 🙄

But with SW, regardless if you're a rabid manbaby or an angry fan from whenever outraged at DLF's callousness toward a character THEY CREATED, that logic goes straight out the window. Don't collect $200 on the trip around the board.

You have people who cling to TROS like it's their last breath of air with 'but there's a kiss so it's the be all and end all of romance despite the rest" vs the "ALL of the sequel trilogy is bad..kill it with fire!! cancel Star Wars forever even back to the horribly written original trilogy!!!" when they defended the entire saga, particularly the sequels after TLJ was released. But an entire franchise lost its value supposedly after the dumpster fire of TROS that comes in from left field and bears zero semblance to any of the preceding films, characters, locations.

Any other fandom if someone hated something that much, they would ignore the bad canon or else walk away entirely. It doesn't compute for Star Wars people. That much anger toward an entire franchise of 40 years or 8+ films (not counting Ep9 because it doesn't exist to me outside of a few cool scenes from Adam) makes no sense, nor is it healthy.

Kylo's speeches about "Let the past die, kill it if you have to!" and "No, you're stilling holding on!" describe TROS better than anything and apply to the entire fandom. People still get backlash for not supporting the extreme love or extreme hate and refusing to acknowledge it as canon, period, outside of it being bad fanfiction for entitled manbabies.

It needs to die. Hopefully sooner than later.

#tros salt #dont support dlf #the film is an atrocity but the rage toward it is nonsensical

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yuniesan · 6 years

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Girl Meets Season 5 - Episode 17 – Girl Meets Abroad

Synopsis: What can you expect when you’re finishing high school? For Riley her entire world will turn upside down and picking up the pieces will bring her and her friends closer together.

[Previous Episodes]

A/N: Ducks under the table

Episode 17 – Girl Meets Abroad

Josh saw the paper and couldn’t feel anything but shock, he had applied the year before, this was before he and Maya started dating, it was on a whim. He had been pushing himself away from Maya at the time and was trying to give her the chance at having her life. Riley found out and told him he was being an idiot, but at the time he had applied for the program. It was only for a few months but it was supposed to give him the chance to find his footing in his life.

“Crap,” he said out loud, while staring at the acceptance letter. Two-month semester abroad, an intensive course study with little to no breaks, an escape from reality. The program was supposed to be held half in Europe and the other half at the NYU campus. Four classes in total, but how had he forgotten about the application at all.

Of course, the answer to all of his questions was Maya, she had made him forget about everything. They studied together, he sometimes sat in her room while she drew something and he read a book. Sometimes he would read to her while she painted, and although she would deny it to everyone in the world, he knew she liked it. He picked stories that he knew she would enjoy, they had gone through all kinds of novels throughout their relationship and it had been weird at first but after a while she would just lay down next to him on the floor as he read to her.

That’s why this was going to be the hardest decision he would have to make at the moment, because this relationship was still new. Their one-year anniversary was still a month away, and he would be in Europe the day it happened. He sighed as he sat on his bed in his dorm room. He had a single, which was rare as it was, but he had gotten lucky when they had given it to him, even though he rarely spent any time in the room. He worked at Topanga’s, he ate dinner with Maya and her parents, or at his brother’s house.

Not knowing what to do he leaves his room and starts walking towards the park, but he doesn’t stay there, he keeps going watching the lights of the city around him. It was home because he lived there, it was home because his family was near-by, it was home because he had found someone he loved there. He found himself in a park close to his brother’s place, it was almost dark but the park was still open to the public. He always found it weird that the parks were closed after a certain time, but he knew it was because it was New York and all kinds of things happened in the big city.

“You know you could just come upstairs,” Riley said sitting down next to him. Her foot encased in a boot from the skiing trip.

“Why are you out here?” he asked her looking pointedly at her foot.

“Well the snow is gone, and I just wanted to take a walk, the park is close so I wouldn’t have to go very far,” she said smiling at him. “What’s wrong?”

Josh sighed knowing that he couldn’t really keep anything from Riley, “Last year, before Maya and I started dating, during that awkward time before you forced us into admitting our feelings, I applied to this program, it’s competitive, but half of the year is spent in Europe, I think it’s Germany this time, anyway they accepted me.”

“That’s great Josh,” she said to him smiling. “You’re worried aren’t you, about how Maya would react.”

“Among other things,” he said looking at his niece with sadness in his heart. “Is it bad that I still want to go?”

“No, it’s not bad Josh, it’s something good and although I know Maya would be happy for you, she would also be sad. She does care about you very much.”

“I need to talk to her about it,” he said watching the streetlights turn on as the darkness slowly engulfed the street.

“She’ll freak out for like a minute,” Riley says watching kids run home as the lights turned on. “The question is do you think this would change your relationship?”

“Doubtful,” he sighed. “We’re stronger together but it’s still two months apart.”

“But it’s an opportunity you can’t pass up because it will be something that taints your relationship.”

“Why do I have a feeling that this isn’t just about me?”

“It’s not, but in the end, we both have decisions to make about the future, and if our relationships survive after all of that then maybe it will be something special.”

Josh looked at his niece’s face and realized that as much as she loved Lucas there was something under it all that held onto her insecurities. Before it was about whether they were good enough for one another, Maya was a part of that as well as the bullies she had to face the year before. Now it was their future. Riley held onto everything in regards to her own struggles until it all exploded, but when it came to everyone else she fought tooth and nail for them.

“I’m going to go talk to Maya, but Riley whatever you’re thinking stop,” he said looking at her as he got up. “Trust your heart.”

She smiled at him and nodded, “I will as long as you trust yours.”

“Promise.”

He walked her home and then made the short trip to Maya’s apartment. He knew that this was one of a million tests that he had to go through because of his relationship with Maya, if they survived one test they would be stronger together.

Maya was standing in her room thinking about what it would be like to lose her childhood home, if they moved what would it mean especially when she got into college. Or at least if she went to college, she was never sure if she could get into any school but with Riley on the case, not only for her but for all of them, Maya was a little more optimistic. She might never go to a big school like NYU but she had some kind of future ahead of her.

“Hey,” Shawn said as he walked into her room. “So I wanted to talk to you about something.”

“Sure,” she said before sitting on her bed, before patting the mattress for him to sit down next to her. “Talk away.”

Shawn always made her nervous, not in a weird way, just in the he’s now my father please don’t leave us kind of way. She didn’t want to lose her family.

“Well your mom and I’ve been looking at apartments big enough for all of us, but your grandma wants to move to Florida, she keeps saying that she’s retired and we should let her live a little.”

“Yeah well, she’s feisty, and I think she wants to live somewhere that won’t make her arthritis act up,” Maya loved her grandmother and knew that the old woman wanted to really run around causing hell in a warm place.

“Well, we’re letting her go, she’s going to use her social security to go live in Florida, and we’ll send her things if she needs them.”

“Does that mean we’re not moving?” Maya asked hopeful but Shawn looked at her and shook his head.

“We’re still moving, I don’t want you or your mom walking home so late and something were to happen because we live so far from her job. But we did find a place you’d approve of.”

Maya gave him a questioning look, “I don’t know I’m pretty picky.”

“Well it’s in the building next to Riley’s so I think it would be perfect,” he said smiling. “There’s an apartment there, it’s as big as the Matthew’s apartment and we can afford it so we signed the papers today… but if you don’t want to move there we’ll find somewhere else.”

She couldn’t help the smile on her face, she had dreamed of living in a place like Riley’s all of her life. “The baby gets the bay window,” she said automatically.

“Why?” Shawn said.

“Well I’m going to college soon but I want the baby to have a room like Riley’s.”

“What if we have a boy? Would it still be the same kind of place?”

“Please you know mom is going to have a girl,” she said smiling, they weren’t sure. “It doesn’t matter either way as long as they have a safe place.”

“That’s fine with me,” he said hugging her. “Okay, your mom and I are going to plan, and I’ll call when dinner’s ready.”

He left her to her own thoughts, which were only filled with happiness, her family was alright, they were going to grow. She had her friends, her life, and most of all she had Josh. She went back to thinking, not about this room but her new room, the baby’s room, how their furniture would fit in a bigger place. There was an image in her mind for the walls of the nursery, something adorable, because she wanted to leave a present for her sibling.

A knock on the door broke her thought process as the door swung open revealing Josh, standing tall in front of her.

“Hey Maya,” he said as he walked in and she knew automatically that something was on his mind because usually he just walked in and sat down without saying a word especially when she was drawing or painting.

“What’s wrong?” she asked automatically.

“We need to talk about something,” he said and she never realized how much she hated the words we need to talk before. That’s what people said before they broke up with their significant other. “It’s a good thing in a way,” he kept talking even though her mind was going through a million thoughts at once.

“If you’re going to break up with me just get it over with,” she said trying to be the strong fearless person she knew she was even though she could feel her heart breaking.

“Maya,” he said kneeling in front of her. “I’m not breaking up with you.”

“Then why do you want to talk,” she said as her traitorous voice broke.

“I have a school thing,” he started but stopped before he pulled her into a hug. “You have to listen to everything I have to say before you say anything.”

“Okay,” she said wiping a stray tear from her face.

“Okay,” he said before sitting on his feet and looking at her. “Before we started going out I applied to this prestigious program, it’s very competitive but it’s a good experience for a student. I found out this morning that I was accepted into the program.”

“Josh that’s great,” she said but he held up his hand.

“I’m not finished,” he said and she could see a flash of sadness in his eyes. “The program sends students overseas for the first two months of the semester.”

“Oh,” she said looking at him for the first time. He was leaving for two months, which meant he was going to miss their anniversary, his own birthday, which she had been planning a surprise party for. “You want to go,” she whispered.

“Yes,” he said. “We could write to each other every day, we can skype too.”

She thought about it for a moment, she wanted to scream about how unfair it was, but she also knew that he deserved the chance that he was being given.

“As long as you take me to prom,” she said knowing that she needed to let him go but it still hurt just a little bit to let go. “And we go on a trip to see my grandmother in Florida this summer.”

There were tears in his face as he nodded, “We can visit my parents too… are you really okay with this?”

“Not really, but I know that our relationship can only get stronger if we trust each other enough to let the other person do something they really want to do.”

“I trust you more than anything,” he said to her.

“You have to send me post cards every week,” she demanded. “One email a day with a picture of something interesting that you saw,” she tried to keep the tears back because Maya didn’t cry. “And we can skype twice a week.”

“That’s fine with me, but you have to send me updates on which schools you get accepted to,” he said smiling at her. “And pictures of anything you draw when I’m not here.”

“I want you to record a book for me,” she said taking his hand. “Just so it can feel like you’re here reading to me like you normally do.”

“Okay,” he said pulling her close to him. She could feel his heartbeat against her ear.

“Bring me back something they only sell wherever you’re going.”

“I will, and you should learn to make that banana bread from the bakery and send it to me,” he said breathing her in.

“Okay,” she said as she ran her fingers through his hair.

They stayed there holding onto each other until Shawn came in to tell her dinner was ready, Josh stayed for dinner explaining to Shawn what was happening. Shawn in turn gave him a guide book on Germany that he had, with tabs on all kinds of places Josh should check out.

He left two weeks later, Maya waving him off at the airport while Riley held her hand. Josh sent his first email the minute he landed, a picture of himself at the airport and the words I miss you already written on the image. The Hunter family moved into their new apartment the week after, and Maya sent Josh the sketch of what she wanted to paint in the nursery.

#girl meets season 5 #joshaya #the joshaya chapter #maya hart #Josh Matthews #riley matthews

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