#no but jason would just kill the joker and that's that

[ghost-bxrd]

How would Mini Bruce react to Batman slitting Jason's throat? Maybe not even during the Joker confrontation, maybe Batman was especially pissed the Red Hood had a child working for him and he threw the batarang but it missed and hit Jay's throat?

Oh geez, I think he’d go nuclear. Like, full out Robin King insanity for a hot second.

It’s going to become more apparent the further we progress through the story, but Jason really managed to establish himself as mini!Bruce’s parental figure during the time he spent in that alternate dimension, and a lot of the trust and love between them was established because Jason proved time and time again that he’s a capable fighter. Someone who’s not going down easily (the way his parents did). Someone who won’t ever leave Bruce behind if he can help it.

So, watching an older version of himself seemingly kill the only family he had left? In such a brutal fashion?

Yeah, you can bet this is the one time mini Bruce would go in for the kill… against himself.

And depending on how that goes and how long that rage and hysterical despair lasts… he would drop down by Jason’s side and just— scream. And cry. And try to stop all that blood from leaving Jason because Jason needs that blood please oh god why is there so much blood where are the pearls why can’t he hear the gunshot—

#the antithesis of Magic #antithesis of magic #anti robin #antirobin #Bruce Wayne #jason todd #batfamily #batfam

[goodoldfashionedengineer]

Gotham is sentient. Gotham knows what is going on in. Gotham knows who is fighting for her.

So when the Batman proves himself of trying his very best nearly every night to protect his city, Gotham announces him her knight and shows him a vision. A vision of the future. Of who her next protector will be.

He calls himself the Red Hood. Not the same guy he had already fought, but someone who stands close to him. Who is not afraid to kill.

He is allowed one question.

"What is his name?"

"Jason Todd"

Maybe he can change things.

Not a name that strikes out. Nothing special. But he remembers it.

And then, one night, he meets a boy stealing his tires. He definitely knows how to defend himself, Bruce's bruised ribs are proof of that. But he doesn't have anyone.

So he puts him in Ma Gunn's school for boys. Maybe with some proper guidance he could become Gotham's protector without killing.

But the school turned out to be a crime scheme. Better to remove all variables and train the boy himself.

As the months go by, Jason feels save enough to put his walls down. To not play into the tough guy act anymore. He is positively overwhelmed because this boy is so sweet, so kind and nice and enthusiastic. So Bruce might be doing a good job apparently.

Until. Until the Garzonas case. Bruce has seen it. The man with the red helmet, the guns and the corpses and blood surrounding him. With the same eyes as his son. The knowledge of the future leads him to think that Jason HAS to have pushed Felipe.

Bruce blames himself, thinks he has wasted his time and resources. And it hurts because despite everything he has begun to love this boy. But he is just Batman, he can't change the future.

But then Jason dies. And that hurts more. Because now Jason never even has the chance to grow up to be Red Hood, doesn't have the chance to grow up at all. And he hates himself because sometimes he thinks about if this might be a good thing actually. He died as an innocent child. It's tragic, he deserved better. But maybe this is better than becoming a murderer and it is mercy.

Years later, Red Hood arrives in Gotham.

In front of him stands the man he saw in the future vision all those years ago.

Bruce reflects. If he had just left Jason alone when he first met him. But who knows if it would even have mattered? His biggest regret though is that he ever thought that a child dying might be something good.

After the debacle that was the Joker showdown, Jason multiplies his effort to help Gotham his way times ten. And that's when Gotham awards him with a vision, tells him that he is her paladin and tells him her rules, how he has one question open after seeing who her next protector will be.

Jason doesn't really care for the person in the vision, what happens in the future should stay in the future, because otherwise they were always doomed.

But then it strikes him. An idea. A terrible one but it seems logical. He has to word this carefully. "Has Batman known that I, Jason Todd, would become Red Hood?"

"Yes"

At their next encounter, Jason tells him how much of a savior complex he has. In reality, Jason is deeply hurt. Bruce treated him as someone that deserved to be cherished, to be loved. Treated him as someone valuable. But now he sees that Bruce had only ever seen him as broken, something to fix, someone doomed. Nothing more

#batman #bruce wayne #red hood #jason todd #batman and red hood #bruce and jason #jason and bruce #robin ii #under the red hood #utrh #batman prompt #fic prompt #batman fanfiction #batman au #batfam #batfamily #gotham

[sleepingontheclouds]

I’ve been getting more and more attached to Jason’s character so please indulge me. I will be having to section these off cause I’m gonna be talking about two pieces of media </3

Titans

I’m watching season three of Titans right now and, it’s a wonder. There’s a few aspects that bother me but overall I’m in love so far.

The season makes a bold choice by literally opening on Jason- a hero- doing drugs. Sure in season two it mentions Hank doing drugs because of Hawk and it does show him in the act of snorting a substance, but the difference is, he’s an adult. Hank is a thirty something year old man who has probably most likely killed people, Jason isn’t.

Yes, Jason is violent. Yes, he did assault police officers, but he never killed anyone. Jason may legally be an adult but he still acts like a teenager because he is one. He’s a traumatized teen having to deal with the fact that he’s repressing so much from everyone he loves. He never gets an outlet to discuss what’s happened to him with people he trusts.

A great example of this is when he’s about to jump off the the Titans tower in season two. He tries talking to Dick, he says how he feels and he try’s expressing himself, he tries so hard to get his brother figure to understand what he’s going through. What does Dick do? He flips it around and unintentionally makes it about himself.

The closest we get to him actually opening up is when he starts trusting Rose, telling her about his upbringing and starting to get comfortable with her, comfortable loving her. Then she reveals that she only met him because she was trying to manipulate him.

The impact of him turning to drugs hits so much harder. He’s just scared, he turns to anything he can to help. It’s so much deeper when it’s shown that the drug he takes isn’t heroine or coke or anything like that. It’s a drug that stops fear.

He literally felt so weak that he took drugs to repress his emotions to the point where he felt nothing, he felt nothing and thought he was better because of it. There’s no doubt that at this point in the story he’s addicted. Jason started using before he died and the madman who gave him the drugs started using them to manipulate him. I’m really interested in where the story is gonna go with it, I really hope it actually dives into withdrawal and how Jason would cope with everything going on around him without the help of drugs.

Comics/Animation

Overall with every piece of media I see regarding Jason and the batfam, it never really manages to depict Bruce and Jason’s relationship accurately, one of the good ones was that single episode of Titans. (in my opinion).

Me personally, I see Bruce and Jason’s relationship in a very complicated light.

When he first gets adopted, Jason views Bruce as a nurturing figure. He sees him like every child sees their parents, perfect. It’s like he can do no wrong. He’s Batman! And he made Jason Robin! It’s a perfect opportunity, he was being helped, he finally had a dad, one that loved him.

Before Jason died, he still very much idolized Bruce but not to the point of thinking he was perfect. He knew Bruce wasn’t perfect, he just couldn’t bring himself to actually say it. Jason couldn’t face the fact that Batman didn’t need a Robin, he didn’t accept that he could still be Bruce’s son without being Robin.

After he died and came back, there was resentment. He hated Bruce, despised him with every fiber of his being. Depending on what canon you’re watching/reading, there’s different reasons for why. Either Jason is mad that Bruce took Robin away from him before he died, effectively taking away his only coping mechanism, therefore resulting in his death. Or, he hates Bruce for not killing Joker. His father didn’t avenge him, he could care less about Batman having an obligation to avenge Robin as his sidekick—fuck Robin. He cares that Bruce, as a father, didn’t kill the Joker to avenge his son. He let his sons killer roam free, putting the psycho in Arkham won’t do anything. Or or, he holds resentment that Bruce couldn’t save him. He couldn’t save his sidekick, his son, his Robin. He failed.

No matter what happens between the duo, Jason always holds self loathing in his heart because of Bruce.

Across all forms of media, he always develops the thought that Bruce hates him. He always thinks that he’s the ‘least favorite/most hated child’ even though it couldn’t be farther from the truth. Bruce loves him, Jason is undoubtedly the favorite child.

(Sneaking a Titans reference in here—) The fact of Bruce caring for Jason more than his other children, (cough cough DICK) is solidified when he takes the Robin mantle away from Jason. He’s trying to protect his son in a way he thinks is best. He saw and heard what being Robin did to Dick, he doesn’t want to put Jason through that. Even the line where Bruce says “I don’t want to make the same mistakes.” Jason perceives it as Bruce calling him a mistake. He lashes out and gets angry because he thinks that he’s being called a mistake. It’s not true, the sentence itself with the context of the episode and the episode before show that it’s not true. Bruce is calling Dick his mistake, not Jason.

Throughout everything, Jason sees anything negative that Bruce says or does as a direct attack on him, when he’s the only one Bruce actually tried to parent. Dick was treated like a weapon. Jason, as a child.

#jason todd #dc robin #bruce and jason #red hood #dick grayson #nightwing #batfam #jason and bruce #daddy issues #dc comics #dc titans #titans 2018 #so much violence #tw drugs #drug usage

[ryemiffie]

Not sure if this has been thought before, but I was thinking about Jason and Tim's relationship and how everything went down with Jason's whole revenge plan or whatever and I present the thought of:

Jason is revived, spends his time with the league and then goes and sees that Batman has 'replaced' him with Tim, of course he's hurt by this and he starts to question if Bruce ever really viewed Jason as a son or if it was all just in Jason's head, he doesn't want to believe that Bruce would replace him but the evidence is damning.

Jason being so hurt by this he decides he can't tell Bruce he's back, and goes on to plan all his Red Hood drama. At first Jason is content with doing what he thinks is right as Red Hood and is fine just killing the Joker on his own. As long as Joker is off the streets and can't hurt anyone else Jason thinks this will be enough.

Years pass and Jason has made a name for himself as the Red Hood, and during this time he has become accustomed to seeing Batman fighting alongside his new sidekick, his new Robin. Whether in passing or from a distance, Jason has seen how the two interact and function with each other, and he recognises how much Tim seems to care for Bruce. It's hurtful to think of Bruce having moved on and replacing him but Jason sees his younger self in the way Tim looks at Batman while they're in battle.

In this time Jason has not been able to bring himself to kill the Joker, his own mental turmoil at the idea of facing the man who killed him keeping him from acting on his anger, instead he only fights against the joker from afar, foiling his schemes in ways that didn't require him to ever actually have to face the twisted man.

Jason tries his best to avoid Batman and his new protege, and just continue working in the shadows of Gotham as Red Hood without having to deal with any conflict from the dark knight/his dad, while from afar feeling a sort of connection with Tim, he is technically his younger brother now right? Even if Jason can't bring himself to so much as wave in his direction when near enough that Tim might see him. During a team up of some kind, probably with someone like Harley Quin, Red Hood is informed of the Joker Jr incident and is suddenly filled with such rage, such anguish at the idea that not only had Bruce failed to save Jason, had let him die and then allowed the Joker to keep his own life, but that Bruce would allow Joker to hurt another one of his sons, to hurt Jason's brother. That even after seeing both Jason and Tim suffer at the Joker's hands that Bruce would still let that man continue with his life, continue to hurt people whether those people be members of the batfamily or just civilians caught in the crossfire of an endlessly painful rivalry between the clown and the bat. That Bruce would continue to take Tim out in the field and put him anywhere near the Joker to fight. When it was just for his own peace Jason could've ended the Joker on his own and let that be enough, sure it hurt Jason to think that the man he had seen as his father didn't care enough to avenge him but he would've survived, as long as he got to watch the life drain from Joker's face and the smile spill off his face when he died. But now, knowing what Batman had allowed to happen, not just to himself, but to Tim as well? It was just too much.

That would be the final straw. The thing that makes Jason finally go directly after Joker, to reveal himself to his father, to scream at him and air out his pain, his sorrow and his anguish, yelling "How could you let him do it? How could you let him continue living after what he did to me? How could you have allowed him to live on to hurt Tim? You couldn't protect me so why didn't you protect him? Was it not enough? To lose me? Was that not enough to make you realise? If I wasn't enough why wasn't Tim? It should've ended with me and it needs to end with Tim! How many more Robins will you let him hurt beyond repair? How many Bruce?! You need to end this! Please end this! If you couldn't do it for me please do it for Tim, he deserves better than you gave me!"

Anyway, just a thought I had. it's kinda hard to articulate in this typa format but maybe I'll write it out as a fanfic and it'll make more sense? Don't know if I will though, let me know if that's something anyone would be interested in I guess. But yeah, I'm just like really interested in Jason and Tim's dynamic and the potential they have for brotherly angst and shenanigans so I might just write some random Tim and Jason interactions for funsies whether or not I decide to post 'em.

#the batman #batman comics #batman and robin #batman #batfam #batfamily #batkids #batsiblings #the batfamily #batbros #batboys #dc jason todd #jason todd wayne #jason wayne #jason todd #dc red hood #the red hood #red hood comics #jason and bruce #jason and tim #dc tim drake #tim drake #tim wayne #dc red robin #red hood #red robin #batman bruce wayne #dad bruce wayne #bruce wayne #dc joker

[spectral-honey]

AU where Jason gets his revenge by becoming a lawyer and getting joker sentenced to the death penalty

Bruce is conflicted about it but any time he tries to say anything on the subject Alfred just talks over him like "oh we're so proud of you master Jason you finished college and you didn't even use your father's extensive resources that could've easily gotten someone in this family a degree aren't we so proud master Bruce that Jason got himself a respectable profession--"

#jason todd #red hood #batfam #i also think it would be funny if thats literally the only thing jason does as a lawyer after that he just goes back to being a vigilante #everyone on the internet is like 'the iconic career of jason todd wayne: came back from the dead got a college degree got the joker- #-sentenced to death (finally) and then immediately fucked off to do whatever the hell it is he does for fun' #any time bruce and jason disagree jasons like 'excuse me which one of us is the college drop out and which of us is a practicing attorney?' #alfred 'you could have been a doctor but you became a furry themed vigilante instead' will never let this go #also btw jason just stole reasources from the league to get thru college. maybe at first talia was like what & then jason was like #'my alternate plan was to either get bruce to kill the joker or kill all three of us in an explosion' and talia is like #'okay. have fun at school sweetie' #BTW AN EDIT: this post is not reflective of my IRL beliefs about the criminal justice system or the death penalty #IRL those are way more complicated than gotham city/the joker/jason make it out to be #saw a few people tagging this post mentioning stuff about that

[nelkcats]

Strange courtship gifts

The last thing anyone would expect is for the Joker to believe in the supernatural, but apparently Gotham was in luck, because the clown was about to make a deal with the King of all ghosts to revive his prized foe.

Said King was not happy about the request, nor did he care about the clown's feelings, but he knew it was a necessary evil. Or at least, that's what Clockwork told him; of course, Danny didn't intend to do anything for free.

The Joker got his wish, Bruce came back from the dead and Danny wondered what he should do with the clown's soul. With a shrug he decided to put it to the best possible use and wrapped it in a little bow before handing it over to Jason Todd.

Jason thought it was a joke, a cute guy giving him a gift out of nowhere and claiming that the frozen ball in his hand was the Joker's soul? Yeah, right.

However, John Constantine came through Gotham and it became obvious that it wasn't a joke and that the cute guy was more than just a regular guy. It also came with the feature that Bruce returned to the living, which made him strangely relieved.

And fuck, reckless or not, Jason needed to find the guy again and steal the air out of his lungs, because that weird ball was the best gift he'd ever been given in his life and it might as well be an engagement ring.

#dpxdc #ghost king danny #The Joker makes a deal with Danny #Danny knows he should accept but he really hates clowns #so he asked for what he would never ask for #his soul #the Joker accepted because he didn't care very much #he just wanted Batman alive #Bruce came back from the dead and scared his family #Danny ended up with the Joker's soul #but obviously he didn't want it #so he gave it to someone who wanted it #that is to say the cute halfa with anger problems that was killed by the clown #dp x dc #dc x dp #deadonmain #Jason believes that giving him the soul of his greatest enemy is a strange form of courtship #but he will accept the proposal anyway

[maybesomemilo]

There’s something about morally grey Tim Drake. I am so attached to the idea that Tim just says fuck it to the no killing rule. I so see him favour blowing whole ass warehouses up. He wouldn’t go out of his way to just be murderous and he wouldn’t do it to like your everyday thug but a serial killer here, a trafficker there, so what if his punches are a little harder… if anyone has any fic recs this is my official request

#I know I know he’s Bruce’s guiding light and all but… #you can’t tell me he wasnt aware there were people at those bases #headcanon #if it’s civilians it’s different #but if it’s not #it’s just like not super important to him #especially if you consider it after the joker junior #he so would have been make to kill then and those are the ones he really mourns #jason todd #batfam #tim drake wayne #morally grey tim drake #tim drake #batman #dcu #dc batman #dc comics #bruce wayne #the no killing rule

[yvtro]

not enough appreciation for countdown #15 wherein jason meets alternative universe bruce who killed the joker (not stopping at this, he went on to eradicate most of gotham rogues gallery in a murder spree similar to that of red hood) and the utter disappointment that jay has in the person that this version of his father has become as bruce discourages him from helping donna in crisis. "we're both dead, batman." – what a raw piece of dialogue.

"go on, then, "jason." you're dead anyway. may as well make it official." "we're both dead, batman. any fool could see you've been dead inside for years."

#i just know that some utrh fans would say that this is missing the point as jason wanted only the joker dead (by bruce's hand that is) #and would say that it's not a slippery slope #but i think what they are missing is what batman is all about #and what place the no killing rule has in the inegrity of the whole character and the symbol itself. #i think you all know that i am plenty sympathetic to jason's reasoning in utrh and his emotional needs #but this story wouldn't have a good ending if bruce did what jason wanted him to anyway #that's kind of the whole point. this is why it's a tragedy #because they would both end up dead in a way. #dc comics #jason todd #bruce wayne #countdown #wretched mirrors #indeed a wretched mirrors moment!

[cursedzucchini]

DC x DP prompt #5

This is so dumb but Danny is Bruce's uncle.

And not in the Danny is old or whatever, no, my dude is 15 looks like he's 13 and when he was running away from home, he met this really really old lady which looked at him, looked at his wounds and went "aight I'm adopting u"

Danny thought she was a ghost and this was her obsession, so imagine his surprise when it turned out that not only this lady was alive, but also supposedly from very influential family??? Danny wasn't sure Abt that one, bc he himself never heard abt these "Waynes" like that just sounds weird, but hey. It made the lady happy so.

Anyway they part ways, bc the lady only wanted to adopt not care, and Danny decides, hey now that I have a new fam, maybe i should get to know them or something?

Well imagine his surprise when he found out some guy in his fifties is supposedly his nephew and has like bazillion kids.

Idk what happens next yada yada sheniganas happen and than Danny ends up in Gotham. And meets Bruce Wayne. Who obviously sees young child w si gns of abuse, black hair, blue eyes and is immidietly like "aight I'm adopting u" (like grandma like grandson huh)

Only this time, Danny is sure he isn't a ghost, and has a counter argument "u can't adopt me I'm ur uncle" and immidietly flees bc dealing w his problems isn't something he does.

Cue confused batfam or stuff idk, I'm so tired and this is just an excuse for crack

#they should maybe work out w Danny #dc x dp #dp x dc #dp x dc crossover #crossover #dcxdp #dp x dc writing prompt #danny fenton #bruce wayne #the batkids think this is absolutely fucking hilarious just until he turns his eyes on them and starts agressively taking care of them #bruce theyre sorry they laighed can u pls tell ur uncle to stop grabbing them by their necks and carrying them around like kittens??? #bruce does not see until danny does this to him #than it becomes something #danny is feral #also jason gets special treatment bc hes obviously sick and starved >:((( why arent u feeding him bruve >:(((((((( #i feel like someone mentions joker killed jason ajd danny goes very still #the discussion stops for a moment before they all try and stop danny from beating joker to death (danny wouldnt kill.him just...... #nah he totally would) #anyway personally i dont like children killing anyone bc its traumatizing so i think itd be pretty cool for jason to see this #bc like someone finally wants to kill the joker for him #but its 15 yo abused fetus and killing anyone wont help him get better #i might even argue itd make everything worse #and maybe hed kinda see stuff from bruces perspective?? tho the last few tags r just my personal stuff so feel free to ignore it lol #uncle danny >:)))

[anime-villian-irl]

I love the idea that Martha and Thomas killed people during their reign of Gotham and when they died they expected their son to turn out like them. To be cold and jaded by the world but instead he sees the light. He feels the pain as well as the joy and by God as his witness he won't make others suffer as he had. At first they were shocked then a little disappointed. But after seeing rogue after rogue after rogue be rehabilitated every street criminal gets a job every former member of the mob fixes their mistakes all they can feel Is proud. Proud that their son became Better. Proud that their son rose above. And proud that he used their name for such good deeds.

#im in my feels #cause yes i love dark Martha and Thomas #what would Bruce think about this? #he won't even kill the joker how would he feel about his parents committing murder #anyways just my thoughts thats all #batman #dc comics #bruce wayne #detective comics #batfamily #damian wayne #jason todd #batman dc #martha wayne #martha kane #Thoma wayne #thomas wayne #alfred pennyworth

[shewhowillrise]

DC x DP Prompt

Corpse AU

Danny: don’t worry not the first body I buried

Dick who called him about the dead joker in his trunk: that’s so reassuring thank you

#dcxdp #dpxdc #dp x dc #dc x dp #dick Grayson #danny fenton #what if dick beat the joker to death without the others there #just went ham on the crusty clown knock off #and then called the King of the Dead to help him #bc out of all the bats - this guy would understand killing right?? #and this happens while 1) Jason is still dead and 2) on his birthday so 3) #Jason hanging out at the Phantom Keep Castle (or whatever) and suddenly his soul??? feels relief??? #like tension he didn’t know he had just gone??? #meanwhile Dick is concerned about what other body this ghost boy king has buried #and doesn’t grow any less concerned when the boy says ‘oh! myself! :D’

[mikakuna]

the way people care more about jason fighting tim than like any other rogue fighting tim during his robin run is...!

"they're brothers! jason is so horrible to attack his little brother."

aside from the obvious twinkification of tim, stop pushing the family narrative on two people who did not see each other as siblings at that moment.

#and also stop seeing tim as a 5 year old #jason fought him to prove a point #sometimes i wish he really did some serious damage to tim just so you guys would have something reasonable to complain about #gosh a 16-17yr old crime fighter who fights people like bane for a living definitely has trauma from a guy two years older than him #fighting him #yes jason todd the kid who was murdered for being robin would definitely go out and kill the next kid who is robin #because yessss his whole point is that he's jealous of the next robin and therefore needs to harm him worse than the joker harmed jason #like please i'm so tired of this discourse #why the fuck would jason- the child murder victim who died as robin and bc of batman taking on a child soldier- want to kill the next robin #you'd think the narrative that jason tried to kill tim would only be in like some fics #but nope! it's in every goddamn batfam fic i've ever read to this day #not even exaggerating #anti tim drake #anti batfam #jason todd #red hood #batman #dc

[wordswithloveee]

#dpxdc #ghost king danny #The Joker makes a deal with Danny #Danny knows he should accept but he really hates clowns #so he asked for what he would never ask for #his soul #the Joker accepted because he didn't care very much #he just wanted Batman alive #Bruce came back from the dead and scared his family #Danny ended up with the Joker's soul #but obviously he didn't want it #so he gave it to someone who wanted it #that is to say the cute halfa with anger problems that was killed by the clown #dp x dc #dc x dp #deadonmain #Jason believes that giving him the soul of his greatest enemy is a strange form of courtship

[oifaaa]

The jason dead for 20 years au would be so funny because the only person who would hate bruce’s retirement more than bruce would be jason because his plan just goes out the window because he accounted to the batman he’s fighting to be bruce not whoever’s wearing it now

The more I think about this au the funnier it gets bc you have Jason's wee pit moment being the same he gets to the hotel and sees the newspaper with the picture of batman on it and still gets mad bc wtf thats not Bruce and what does this paper mean it's 2040 how dare time goes on with out him he's gonna go beat up Bruce bc fuck that old man

#ask #anon #i am an optimistic and do believe joker would have gotten himself killed by the time bruce is 60 #but im also someone who subscribes to the notion #thats jasons anger is really complianted and even he doesnt truly understand why hes mad #he just wants it to be bruces fault #so off he goes #even talias over it all by now #shes just like #okay let me get my coat #ill take you to gotham and you can decapitate some people

[rmbunnie]

Red Hood Characterization

This is really long so I'm putting a cut here, I've been thinking about Jason Todd's character motivations and the question of whether or not his actions are based in a Moral Code (I don't think so, not to say he's without any morality) and I talk about that in more depth here.

I saw someone say on here that Titans: Beast World: Gotham City was some of the best Jason Todd internal writing they'd seen in a while, and I've been a Red Hood fan for 8 years or so now? pretty much since I read comics for the first time, so I went and checked out and I thought it was good! The way the person I saw talking about it as if it was rare and unusual made me wonder though, because as well-written as i thought his stances on crime were, there wasn't really anything in it that went against the way I conceptualize Jason?

This kinda plays into a larger question I've been thinking about for a while with Jason though, which is that, do people think that the killing is part of a fundamental worldview that motivates him a la batman, and that worldview is the reason he does the things he does?? Because 8 years ago i was a middle schooler engaging with fiction on the level that a middle schooler does, so I simply did not put much thought into it beyond "poor guy :(" but ever since I actually started trying to understand consistent characterization, I don't really see Jason as someone who's motivated by a moral code in his actions the way batman or superman is!

tbh my personal read is that he's a very socially-motivated guy, his actions from resurrection to his Joker-Batman ultimatum in utrh always seemed to me like every choice made leading up to his identity reveal was either a. to give him the leverage and skill necessary to pull off his identity reveal successfully, or b. to twist the knife that little bit more when he does let Bruce find out who he is. Like iirc there's a Judd Winick tweet like "yeah tldr he chose Red Hood as his identity because it's the lowest blow he could think of." And I think that's awesome, I think character motivations rooted so deeply in character's relationships and emotions are really fun to read! I also think it's where the stagnation/flatness of his character comes from in certain comics, because if his main motivation is one event in one relationship that passes, and he is not particularly attached to anything in his life or the world by the time that comes to pass, it's a little harder to come up with a direction to go with the character after that, because there isn't much of a direction that aligns with something the character would reasonably want? But I do think solving this by saying "all of the morally-off emotionally driven cruelty he did on his way to spite Batman was actually reflective of his own version of Batman's stance that's exactly the same except he thinks it's GOOD to kill people" isn't ideal. To be fully honest, it seems to me like he never particularly cared one way or the other about killing people to "clean Gotham of crime," he just did everything he could to get the power necessary to pull off his personal plans, and took out any particularly heinous people he encountered along the way (like in Lost Days.) Not to say I think the fact he killed people keeps him up at night anymore than everything else in his life events, I just never really thought he was out there wholeheartedly kneecapping some dude selling weed or random guy robbing a tv store for justice.

Looping wayyy back to my question, Is this (^) contradictory to the way he's written/the overall average perception of the character? Because like I enjoyed his writing in Beast World i have zero significant issue with anything there, I just didn't believe it would be a hot take, like yeah, that is Jason. It's been a while since I've read utrh and lost days, but I don't think my takeaway directly contradicts either of those too bad iirc. Idk all this to say I think Jason killing and being alright with killing is an obvious and objective fact, but i guess i've always seen it as more of a practical tactic than a moral belief, and I think taking the actions made during the lowest points of a character's life where he is obsessively focused on this ONEEEE thing and trying to apply it as a Motivating Stance to everything he's done after that, doesn't really follow logically for me.

#edit: i am so so open to discussion and disagreement on this but please try to have something substantial to say. god bless! #like ofc jason kills but to me it was less “everyone I've ever killed deserves death objectively” #and more “when people are dead they stop doing things like heinous atrocities and trying to kill me" #i don't even think he wanted the joker dead (only) because he thinks he objectively morally deserves death #although the joker is one of the most extreme cases possible and he if does think that he's VERY justified #i really do think it was just about bruce #and wanting bruce to avenge him to show he loved him and he mattered and wanting his dad to give him security #all the killing was about the clown and everything with the clown was about bruce #i've NEVER forgotten the bit in lost days where he has the joker tied up at gunpoint and doesn't kill him #i think if it was only about a moral greater good situation he would have taken him out then and there #if you disagree i'd love to hear why provided you can be civil and not an jerk #also if you disagree PLEASE PLEASE put screenshots and comic issues if possible #i'd love to check them out and form my own stance on them #just know that if you say like. battle for the cowl. or the Tom King batman annual or something i probably won't care too much #comic characterization is ever-changing and inconsistent i truly believe that the best thing to do is just read the important stuff #and try to form your own stances from there #because there's never gonna be 100% of comics involving a character that align with each other perfectly and that's just a given #jason todd #red hood #dc comics

[figofswords]

Normal Clown kills the joker. Normal Clown is a really ordinary guy with nothing on his record aside from a handful of parking tickets. Normal Clown is beloved by his nieces and nephews. Normal Clown went to clown school and trained in commedia dell’arte and now he teaches improv and clowning classes at a community theatre. Normal Clown joined a short-lived clown troupe in gotham city. Normal Clown volunteers at soup kitchens on weekends. Normal Clown is sick of kids being afraid of him. Normal Clown is sick of having police show up at the theatre because the shipment of commedia masks has joker gas in it. Normal Clown is sick of this asshole ruining clowns for everyone. Normal Clown gets fed up and during a joker breakout he sees his chance. Normal Clown runs the joker over with his car. Normal Clown has never killed before and never will again. Normal Clown does not want to be a superhero. Normal Clown does not want to be a supervillain. Normal Clown is a normal guy and this was a one time deal. the bats don’t know what they should do about this. the gcpd arrests him but like...reluctantly. other rogues start sending him flowers because frankly nobody liked the joker. the red hood pays his bail. gotham citizens riot until the city decides not to press charges. after about a week of inner turmoil, bruce wayne pays off his college loans. Normal Clown goes back to teaching commedia at the community theatre. 

#batman #joker #idk i cant get this idea out of my head #i just think it would be really good if joker had a super anticlimactic death #like. Who Will Kill The Joker? will it be jason? bruce? harley? #no its this random completely average guy who loves clowning and is sick of this guyruining things for him