#not necessarily in quenya but....

[imakemywings]

Hey, are you still bitter about the treatment Thingol gets in the fandom? Because I am, even if it's 2023. The fact that people have such visceral reactions and threw a huge hissy fit in response to Thingol banning Quenya as if his banning is equivalent to a mass slaughter when said mass slaughterers are claiming lands in Beleriand and mocks Thingol's kingship is funny to me. And the fact that people mock and shit on Thingol for being pissed at the kinslaying at Aqualonde because he wasn't even there, like hello? That's his brother's people tf? Who wouldn't be pissed when you find out your brother's family legit got slaughtered? He has flaws but like so do many characters in silm, yet he gets so much hate and is never written with justice because he's against the noldor/feanorians.

Am I still bitter about [X]? yes. The answer is always yes.

People's attitudes towards Thingol in this fandom are a perfect illustration of character-centric morality: the things the Feanorians do are excusable because they're liked, and anything Thingol does is worthy of scorn because he is not liked. That's how you get people acting like the Quenya ban is on par with literal mass murder (and no, I don't think his asking for a massive number of foreign troops coming into the area to show him respect as the local ruler, as a display of good faith if nothing else, was unreasonable).

Look, I get why Thingol is not a big fan favorite. He suffers from "show not tell" where although Tolkien tells us he was a wise and beloved king, most of what we're shown in detail are things he fucked up. He also plays the King Triton role with Beren and Luthien, and no one likes a guy who stands in the way of ~true love~. Additionally, some of his most likeable moments come in Children of Hurin, which is, of course, not a part of the core Silmarillion. We get a lot less detail in Silm about Turin's time in Doriath, which is when we see a lot more of Thingol in CoH and where we see his attitude on mortals make a complete 180 (he is in fact the only Elf lord to ever foster a Man). But even within Silm, it's rarely acknowledged that in the end, he does support Beren and Luthien's marriage.

"And it seemed to Thingol that this Man was unlike all other mortal Men, and among the great in Arda, and the love of Luthien a thing new and strange; and he perceived that their doom might not be withstood by any power of the world. Therefore at last he yielded his will, and Beren took the hand of Luthien before the throne of her father."

He seats Beren at his left hand--it's hard to overstate the significance of that.

"Then Thingol's mood was softened; and Beren sat before his throne upon the left, and Luthien upon the right, and they told the tale of the Quest..."

I think it is relevant to remember that in accepting Luthien's marriage to Beren, Thingol is necessarily accepting her death--the death of his only child, whom he holds dearer than all the land and wealth of Doriath. That doesn't make his actions in B&L right, but I think it makes them understandable.

Later, when the forces of Doriath go to hunt Carcaroth, Beren and Thingol hunt together.

"...Huan leaped from the thicket upon the back of the Wolf, and they fell together fighting bitterly; and no battle of wolf and hound has been like to it, for in the baying of Huan was heard the voice of the horns of Orome and the wrath of the Valar, but in the howls of Carcaroth was the hate of Morgoth and malice crueller than teeth of steel...There they fought to the death; but Thingol gave no heed, for he knelt beside Beren, seeing that he was sorely hurt." (Emphasis added)

But also, simply because he repeatedly comes into conflict with the sons of Feanor, he was doomed to be recast as a villain by the fandom because the sons are so popular that anyone who dislikes them is going to get shafted by the fandom. Hating on Thingol is so accepted in this fandom people don't even seem to regard it as character bashing to come onto posts or fics about Thingol and share how much they don't like him/think he's an asshole/whatever.

I really don't think there is an overreaction to hearing about unprovoked mass murder. I really think most of us would react very badly to finding out that someone we'd had dealings with had slaughtered a bunch of people, whether or not we were related to the victims. It's been said before but I'll drag it out again: Thingol had to do something. As king, he did not have the option of not reacting to that--that it happened, or that the Noldor tried to conceal it. The Quenya ban was arguably a mid-level response (Furthermore, it was a pretty deft display of Thingol's soft power--Maedhros scoffs at his claim to be king of Beleriand, yet look how instantly and totally the Sindar adhere to this directive. With this one move, Thingol displays for the Noldor how far his power reaches. If they were thinking about armed conflict with Thingol and Doriath, they now know how many of the Elves of Beleriand they would have to deal with.) It's not like Fingolfin was going to turn his people over for a trial, and accept whatever punishment Doriath's court ruled on, not least because Fingon himself was a significant part of the Kinslaying at Alqualonde. The Noldor, hand their crown prince over to a foreign justice system? Not gonna happen.

I will link to my tag for Thingol metas, if you want to see more of what other people have stated more eloquently about his character and his actions!

Long story short: I like Thingol, flaws included, and it's kind of laughable that of all the characters in the book, THIS is the one people find irredeemable.

#asks #anonymous

[sillylotrpolls]

(Notes on names and translations below poll. Click the read-more link to see, for example, why "star", "noble", and "silver" were used in options.)

I can't be the only person who thinks "Elf-man" is a terrible name, right? Like, I get it Elrond, your family tree is a giant mess and you're like half elf, three-eighths man, and one-eighth demigod, and everyone you know love naming their kids with the same first letters as their own name (thanks for that, Tolkien, I just love trying to keep all those Fi- names in the Silm straight), but maybe you could have broken with tradition and given your boys slightly nicer names? It's not like it's Latin, either, where most people have forgotten what the words actually mean; this is your everyday language here.

At least Elrond and Celebrían wised up by the time Arwen came along, though "Noble Maiden" still isn't very creative. I think Elves just might have something to learn from Mormons in this case.

Pictured: definitely not Jolkien Rolkien Rolkien Tolkien.

Anyway, translations for Elrond's family's names and where I got the names for the poll choices after the cut:

Elladan and Elrohir (Elrond's twin sons)

The name Elladan is Sindarin for "Elf-Man" or "Elf-Dúnadan," referring to his dual descent from both Elves and Edain (a name given to those descending from the three houses of Men from Beleriand).[15] It comes from the words el ("elf or star") and adan, singular of Edain.[16] On the other hand, Elrohir means "Elf-knight", but rochir also means "horse-lord".

Elrond (Elrond)

Elrond is a Sindarin name that means "Star-dome" or "Elf of the cave", from el ("Elf" or "star", interchangeably) and rond ("cave, vault").[17][18][19]

Celebrían (Elrond's wife)

The name Celebrían means "Silver queen"[6], from the Sindarin words celeb ("silver") and rían ("queen").[7]

Arwen (Elrond's daughter)

The name Arwen means "Noble maiden", from Sindarin ar(a) ("royal, noble") and wen ("maiden"). Her epessë Undómiel means "Evenstar", from the Quenya Undómë ("evening twilight") and el ("star").

Elros (Elrond's twin brother who chose to be mortal and founded Middle-earth Atlantis and was, for the record, much better at naming children than his brother)

Elros was a Sindarin word that meant "Elf of the spray", from el ("elf" or "star", interchangeably) and ross ("foam, spray").[8][9] The name came from the Quenya word Elerossë.[10]

And while we're all here, epessë:

The epessë or the "after-name" is the third type. The after-name is given later in life, but not necessarily by their kin, as a title of admiration. In some circumstances, the epessë is chosen by the Elf himself or herself. An Elf could be referred to by any of the three, but the epessë typically took preference.

Galadriel is the Sindarin translation of Alatáriel, the latter being the Telerin epessë originally given to her by Celeborn. Galadriel means "Maiden Crowned by a Radiant Garland". The name itself is an epessë: her father-name is Artanis (noble woman) and her mother-name is Nerwen (man-maiden).

The poll choices were created using this Lord of the Rings Elf name generator. I tried to make sure I picked the Sindarin options, in keeping with Elrond's family's clear preference. I primarily used the "meaning" option, but you could also specify "starts with 'el'", "male", and "Sindarin elvish names" to turn up a list of names like Elunaer ("Light blue bridegroom") or Elanorchanar ("Star sun flower brother").

Although the generator has obvious limitations due to the nature of Tolkien's conlangs, it's a lot of fun to play with. Just be careful or you'll next find yourself on the Parf Edhellen (Elvish dictionary) and from there it's just a hop skip and a jump until you're in a discord chat trying to figure out how to properly conjugate "knitting" or something.

Finally, just because I have always loved this paragraph, a quote from Bigger Things by Blossomwitch on Ao3:

Most people had trouble telling the twin sons of Lord Elrond apart. Gimli did not share this problem. True, they were very similar physically, but to Gimli the difference was plain. The one hanging all over Legolas like the Mirkwood Prince somehow belonged to him was Elladan; the one with enough sense to keep his paws off other people's elves was Elrohir. Simple enough.

#lotr #lord of the rings #poll #polls #elladan #elrohir #please click the links I put effort into those

[annab99awritersdream]

Maiar in 'The Lady of Ithilien'

(to be updated with new information as the story progresses. As such, things may change)

Eönwë

Herald and banner-bearer of Manwë, the High King of Arda. He's among the most powerful Maiar in Valinor and the mightiest in arms. Military leader and High Commander of the Host of the Valar, he was one of the key fighters during the War of Wrath, which marked the end of the First Age of the Sun.

Birth: he entered Arda shortly after it was created.

Married to Elenna of the House of Húrin.

Fancast: Daniel Sharman

Ilmarë

Eönwë's younger sister and handmaiden of Varda, Queen of the Valar and Manwë's wife. Along with her brother, she's one of the chiefs of the Maiar.

Birth: she entered Arda shortly after it was created.

Eventually married to Eldarion, Crown Prince of Gondor and Arnor.

Fancast: Matilda Lutz

Olórin

Also known as Gandalf (one of his many aliases), he has served several Valar throughout the various ages of Arda. He's mainly associated with Manwë and Varda, but he also served Nienna, Valië of sorrow and compassion and Irmo, Vala of dreams and visions. (Olórin is a Quenya name and its meaning is something along the lines of "dream of mind")

Birth: he entered Arda shortly after it was created.

Fancast: Sir Ian McKellen (as Gandalf during the War of the Ring. He sticks to this form for a little while longer before switching back to his usual one); Bradley James (as Olórin)

(they give the same vibe tbh)

Wilwarin

Maia serving Irmo and occasionally Nienna. She's had a major crush on Olórin ever since she met him. She's not the sharpest tool in the box (sorry girl, I still love you), but she's kind-hearted and keeps to herself because no one wants to befriend her due to her perceived stupidity. SHE NEEDS LOVE AND AFFECTION, which no one has ever given her because most Maiar are stuck up and arrogant. Extremely naïve and completely clueless at times, she's been nicknamed "Wilya" (meaning airhead) by her fellow Maiar. She's obsessed with Olórin because he's the only one who's ever actually interacted with her.

Birth: She entered Arda at the beginning of the Second Age of the Sun, following the War of Wrath.

Fancast: Tuğba Melis Türk

Isilmë

Maia of Vayanna. Considered among the most beautiful Maiarin women to ever enter Arda, she has been obsessed with Eönwë ever since she first saw him. They had a brief fling following the War of Wrath, which, needless to say, ended very quickly (and badly). She's firmly convinced he's still in love with her and will do anything to get him back. Her name is Quenya for "moonlight".

Birth: she entered Arda following the War of Wrath (around the same time as Wilwarin)

Fancast: Beste Kökdemir

Isilya

Maia of Yavanna. She's Isilmë's close friend (or so she believes). She fails to realize Isilmë doesn't really love her or value their friendship, but simply uses her for her own purposes. She blindly follows her "friend" and indistinctly agrees with everything the latter says or does, as she's been brainwashed into thinking she's perfect. She doesn't seem to have a mind of her own, modeling her own behavior after Isilmë, as she's afraid to lose the connection they share. She's petty and very annoying, but not inherently evil and might even redeem herself eventually. Who knows. Her name is Quenya for "the third day of the week" according to the Númenórean calendar.

(It might sound odd, but I picked the name purely because it sounds similar to Isilmë and because I like the sound of it, not necessarily because I had a specific idea. I'm terrible at naming characters, I know. Please don't be mean)

Birth: she entered Arda following the War of Wrath.

Fancast: Dilara Aksüyek

Elenna's household

Four Maiarin ladies enter her service after her marriage to the Herald.

Handalimë

Originally a Maia of Vána, she is thoughtful, level-headed, smart and highly practical. Elenna is entrusted to her and she quickly grows fond of her new lady, becoming one of her most trusted servants and her main confidante. She's usually calm and collected and makes it her mission to protect her lady from anyone who might wish her harm—namely her sister Isilmë and a few of the Noldorin elves— and constantly worries about her. Her lady's well-being is her utmost priority.

Birth: she entered Arda sometime before the end of the First Age.

Fancast: Gülcan Arslan

Naráel

A Maia of Aulë, she's spunky and crafty but also naive and shy. She loves making rings and necklaces and will be gifting many jewels to her new lady. She can often be found chatting with Gimli, as she's never seen a dwarf before and wants to know all about dwarf customs and traditions (for fairly obvious reasons, I'd say). Kind-hearted and wiser than she lets on, she loves sitting by fireplaces (and lighting them).

Birth: she entered Arda at the beginning of the Third Age.

Fancast: Sophie Turner

Aranwen

A Maia of Nessa, she loves dancing, nature and poetry. She's not a great conversationalist, but when she does speak, one had better stop and listen. She loves reading and will spend many hours discussing books and history with her lady. She enjoys needlework and she's quite a good painter as well. She respects Elena greatly and often reassures her. Even though they get on each other's nerves quite often, she's great friends with Naráel. She too will spend a bit of time with Gimli, but only to try and convince him that ripping down trees is inherently bad. Nevertheless, she grows fond of the lord of the Glittering Caves- she and Legolas will try and teach him how to dance. Whether they will succeed is still unknown.

Birth: she entered Arda at the beginning of the Third Age.

Fancast: Rose Williams

Elenya

Maia of Varda (the name is kind of a giveaway).

She's sweet, kind and very protective of Elenna. She often likes to remark how similar their names are and loves to recount stories that most have forgotten (star-related, of course). She was lady-in-waiting to Ilmarë before she volunteered to join Elenna's household.

Birth: she entered Arda during the Years of the Trees.

Fancast: Yasemin Allen

#maiarofmiddleearth #theladyofithilien #ao3 writer #ainur #maiar #valar

[sotwk]

hi!! i love reading your posts and i love your oc of thranduil others sons! i sent this before but i don’t know if it sent correctly, but do you think thranduil would have been different if he had daughters? and would he have been more overprotective of his daughter than his sons? (im sorry if this isn’t clear my english is very bad) again i love your fanfictions so much

Hello my Anon friend! <3 I am answering this Ask quickly, because you did ask me this previously and I'm sorry it has taken me a while to respond. (I have a growing backlog of unanswered Asks--eep! Working on it!)

Most writers who decide to give Thranduil additional children opt to give him at least one daughter. To be honest, I don't have a very good excuse for deciding to give him only sons. (I myself have 2 sons and no daughters, so maybe I was being prophetic? LOL.)

I personally don't believe Thranduil would be necessarily more protective of daughters than sons. Regardless of gender, he has a unique affection for each member of his family, cherishing and bonding with each one according to their individual qualities. He will be more protective of whoever is in greater need of protecting.

Being a Protector is perhaps the most prominent aspect of Thranduil's character, and this extends to everyone and everything he views as under his care. His family, his people, his kingdom, his forest. (ex. He threw Thorin and Company behind bars for potentially endangering his citizens!)

But how would Thranduil treat his daughters, if he had them?

Although he has no daughters in the SotWK AU, you can deduce how he would treat them in the way he absolutely treasures his female relations: his wife (Queen Maereth), his daughter-in-law (my OC, Crown Princess Itarildë, Prince Mirion's wife), and granddaughter (my OC, Princess Anariel, Mirion's daughter). Here are examples from the SotWK AU:

Thranduil was willing to give up his birthright for Maereth. He defied his father and the lords of Greenwood to make her his Queen. He does not hide her Feanorean lineage, and values the inclusion of her Noldorin culture in his household. He calls her by Quenyan endearments, and their sons call her "Ammë" (Quenya), instead of "Naneth" (Sindarin).

Itarildë is a warrior descended from great warriors, and Thranduil views her as equal to his sons. He welcomes her participation in battle alongside him and the princes, showing great respect for her skills. He also risked political strife by allowing Mirion to wed yet another Noldor.

His granddaughter Anariel is his "baby" (even when she is fully grown) and has the least amount of fighting ability in their family, so Thranduil constantly worries for her safety. However, he still permits her to travel outside of Mirkwood during the "dark days", and does not try to curtail her freedoms. (He is actually more protective of her brother, Crown Prince Aranion, since he is the heir to the throne!)

Basically, I would like for any readers/followers of the SotWK AU to know and understand that Thranduil would be the best father-in-law ever to anyone who wins the hand and heart of any of his sons. Just in case you needed extra incentive to love a Thranduilion Prince. ;)

Looking forward to showcasing this some fics soon!

Thank you for the question Anon, and for your lovely words of support! <3

#sotwk answers #anon asks #kind anons #i have the best anons #thranduil #thranduil headcanon #sotwk headcanon #sotwk ocs #thranduil imagines #mirkwood #mirkwood elves

[hirazuki]

Give me all the hot takes

🔥🔥🔥

OMG I feel like I have nothing but hot takes, if I listed them all we'd be here for years 🤣 I will give as many as the number of flames you sent!

Under a cut, because (unsurprisingly) it got long XD

There is ✧･ﾟ:* nothing *:･ﾟ✧ in the published text of The Silmarillion to indicate that Eol was chronically abusive/violent towards Aredhel or Maeglin during all their years together. One single snippet of dialogue of one single exchange of heated words does not constitute an abusive environment, as neither do arguments/disagreements or the experiencing of anger. If anything, instead of being present and violent, it seems as though distance grew between them and he made himself scarce more often than not. His relationships with both his wife and his son are clearly shown to be cases of mutual deterioration over time -- people who are fundamentally at cross purposes with each other, as far as wants and beliefs and desires go, and the text quite solidly implies that Aredhel had her share of the blame, given as she was to recklessness, impulse, changeable mood and mind, etc. -- and this decline was almost exclusively exacerbated by the effect of outside forces on their lives (Sindar vs. Noldor, the ban on quenya, Feanor's sons and Aredhel's connection with them specifically, etc.), rather than any more domestic issues between them. Was it unhealthy? Sure, but certainly nowhere near the picture general fandom paints "canon" out to be, and I wish more people would engage in the wonderful nuance the text provides us with. Also, as far as published Silm goes, Eol wove enchantments to draw Aredhel to his dwelling, but it doesn't say he forced or coerced or enchanted her to enter; she entered and stayed willingly. And it drives me crazy to see people flay Eol as a rapist in one breath, while going 'YAS QUEEN' for Melian with another*, when it's the same scenario in, incredibly, the same place -- it smacks of double-standards, and a couple of other words that I will refrain from using, as some people on this website think I'm nice and I'd hate to shatter that illusion XD *I have absolutely no issue with Melian; I really enjoy her as a character. It's the hypocrisy that I can't stand :)

I've ranted about this before in the tags of some post somewhere, but: Celebrimbor. It's been my experience that, fairly frequently, there's a tendency to portray him in a manner that tends to make him very... bland. Wonderbread™, if you will. Idk if it's to contrast Annatar or to contrast Feanor and Curufin, but it ends up making Celebrimbor far too soft and pliable and people-pleasing, distastefully so, taking away all of the interesting hard surfaces and edges. Yes, he distances himself from his family and rejects them; yes, he can want to build a new reputation of his own, untainted by the First Age; yes, Ost-in-Edhil can be a place of open doors and second chances; yes, he can be hyper-aware of his legacy as Feanor's grandson and seek to present an opposite image through his words and actions -- all of this is beautiful. But it's even more beautiful if he's allowed to have traits that are callbacks to his father and grandfather; let him be angry (in private or in public, in short isolated spurts that come out of nowhere or as a simmering undercurrent), let him be shrewd and sharp and opinionated (let Annatar cut himself on him a little). This doesn't mean he can't also be kind and earnest and honest and trying his best. Most of all, let him be greedy -- not only for knowledge or power in and of themselves, not necessarily, but for what those things can afford him: the ability to make that which he loves (i.e. Middle Earth) a better, grander place. We're all greedy for the things we want, and I would argue most of those things aren't negative -- stability, acceptance, a better tomorrow, etc. Greed isn't limited to physical things or luxuries and it isn't inherently a bad thing! [/troy baker voice]. There's just so much there to play with, even completely aside from his dynamic with Annatar, and it just makes me equal parts sad and upset to see a character with such ambition and potential and fire frequently so babied and made naive, that he is reduced to the written equivalent of a soggy waffle.

Okay, now for something that is a bit more lighthearted and personal, but no less hot -- and perhaps? may contradict your own Mairon interpretation (in which case, I'm always happy to agree to disagree ^^) -- I can totally see why fandom makes Sauron into this super sexy/sexual creature but... it's a hard nope from me. He's certainly alluring and attractive to others, and knows how to use it to great effect, but I just can't see him genuinely vibing with it, relishing in it for himself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I know I keep harping on the Luthien incident, but it's just such a stark contrast to literally everyone else who comes across her -- including Melkor -- that it's really difficult to interpret his utter non-reaction to her as anything but a personal disinterest in matters of the flesh, at least in and of themselves without some kind of connection/relationship there. Everyone likes to joke about him being the whore/slut of the Silm, and sure it can be funny at times, but that concept is just so alien to how he reads to me.

#thanks for askingggg ♡♡♡ #silm musings #silm #tolkien #mairon #celebrimbor #eol #silmarillion

[echo-bleu]

Instead of writing any of the myriad WIPs I have waiting, I started yet another one.

Well, it's not a new one exactly, it's something I've been wanting to develop for a good long while but I couldn't think of how without just making it a gallery of random OCs. I first touched on it in shine still brighter, my headcanons about where the disabled elves are in Valinor.

So many (most?) of the disabled elves who can't mostly pass for abled end up at one point or another in this village in Lórien, which I don't yet have a name for but it's under Estë's care without being under her supervision necessarily. They're fairly independent, a few abled elves and maiar live there as well and often act as carers but mostly they just care for each other.

Several things have been coalescing in my mind recently thinking about my various AUs with disabled elves (shine still brighter, the bark of our bones, silver and some others) and about the ghosts that haunt the Silmarillion as a whole.

I think I can write something like a series of vignettes alternating OCs and canon characters, each with their experience of Valinor. The main character will be my OC Merenantë, Maglor's wife, who suffered a traumatic brain injury in the First Kinslaying and was left in a coma for a while, leading Maglor to leave without her.

It will also have Findis, who found her calling as a follower of Estë, Lalwen, Celebrían, Míriel, and my usual suspects.

I'm not big on OC-led fanfic in general, so I hope it will still be interesting.

I'm calling it The Imperfect, with the tagline, from Fëanor's part: "The only way to make a perfect gem, Fëanáro learns under Mahtan’s tutelage, is to discard all of the flawed stones."

This also means that I spent about half my Sunday scouring Quenya dictionaries to find possible words for "disabled" that aren't just calques of other languages, so if anyone has suggestions, I'll take them!

#the imperfect #disabled tolkien characters #echo's writing thoughts

[absynthe--minded]

Hi! Sorry to bother, but do you know where I can read more about Tolkien's opinion on queer relationships and queerness in general? I haven't read all of the letters, but in one of them he says some icky and misogynistic stuff about (het) relationships and I was kind of disappointed. (I don't mean this in a 'gotcha' kind of way, I'm just a queer person who's genuinely bothered by some of his views and wants to learn more)

I don’t think it’s any sort of a gotcha!

The short answer (there is more I have to say, but I’ll give you the important bit first) is that Tolkien never made any explicit and confirmed statements one way or the other about queerness. I’ve seen some people allude to things but I’ve never found anything concrete, and this fandom and this scholarly field are both homophobic enough that if there were anything he said against queer relationships we’d have all heard it by now. also, seriously, good job digging deeper into his views and interrogating them - he was far from perfect and honest, forthright engagement with his flaws is basically the only way we’ll move forward and tackle them.

the longer answer is that while he was both openly sexist (ranging from pretty bad misogyny to “uh, have you ever met a woman in your life?”) and openly racist (usually taking the form of “repeating any ethnic stereotypes he came across without any thought of their relationship to reality, and having no idea of what was or wasn’t offensive”) his feelings on queerness are harder to find. this isn’t that unusual - even people we’ve been able to confirm as queer or probably queer are in many cases silent about their relationship with their sexuality, and Tolkien was in a position where even if he himself was queer (which, by the way, is my opinion) he’d probably have no incentive to say so directly.

because this fandom and this scholarly discipline are so overwhelmingly cishet, queer scholarship of Tolkien is in its infancy, even to a point that means most people who are open to queer readings and queer interpretations will balk at trying to argue for the canonicity of queer relationships and queer subtext, there’s also not a lot of writing on this subject by biographers or other academics. however, there’s a fair bit of evidence that at least argues both that Tolkien was okay with IRL queer people and he was consciously engaging with queer themes in his works.

what we know is this:

he was friendly with W.H. Auden (gay), and a deep admirer of the works of Mary Renault (lesbian who wrote historical M/M fic focusing on the classics, sort of a midcentury Madeline Miller but more focused on historical accuracy). in fact he’s on the record as saying he loved Renault’s books (specifically The King Must Die and The Bull from the Sea, though possibly also The Charioteer and The Last of the Wine, both of which are explicitly gay fiction) and the fan letter she sent him was among his most prized correspondences

he was Catholic, but he purposefully wrote stories or developed narrative ideas that weren’t directly in compliance with Catholicism, and he did acknowledge that in one case (specifically the Gift of Men and the concept of euthanasia as a blessing) he was interested in exploring concepts as good stories rather than moral messages - this shows that his faith wouldn’t have necessarily bound him to only depict homosexuality badly

he wouldn’t have suffered socially for speaking out against queerness (other authors of his circle like C.S. Lewis were more vocal) but he didn’t, which indicates a choice not to

he was aware of and directly inspired by Homeric epics alongside Northern European sources, and this does include the Iliad

Quenya doesn’t have gendered pronouns, and we know that in at least one draft he changed gendered words like “husband” and “wife” to “spouse”. he also depicts elves and dwarves as having a high degree of androgyny, and elvish marriages are not explicitly required to be between a male elf and a female elf

his inclusion of vital and important relationships like Túrin and Beleg, Frodo and Sam, and Fingon and Maedhros alongside equally important het relationships indicates that he was interested in giving space to M/M that blurs or steps over the line between platonic het-approved friendship and queerness

there’s something to be said for how British midcentury queer literature depicts queer men as sad outcasts at war with their true nature who can’t ever be happy, and how Tolkien writes a lot of men in relationships with other men who are in that position except they’re miserable because of outside forces (the Ring, the Oath, Morgoth’s curse, their failings as people apart from relationships) and their deep connections with other men are the happiest and best part of who they are

this is, as you can see, both an area that really needs further study and an area that has just enough to suggest that he wasn’t a garden variety homophobe.

I hope that helps?

#replies #absynthe’s meta #queer tolkien scholarship is basically a ghost town

[light-of-the-two-trees]

I've been wanting to put this out here for a while so here we go:

I haven't watched Rings of Power yet. I'm not sure if I will. But I've seen a lot of content about Haladriel (of course I have), and it's got me thinking.

Why aren't we exploring the canon dynamic between Galadriel and Sauron?

Not necessarily romantic, of course. But we know that canonically, Celebrimbor was kind of, sort of in love with Galadriel, who wasn't interested. And then Annatar came along and Galadriel got suspicious of him, and then the rest of it happened. All we (or at least I) know about the canon dynamic between Galadriel and Sauron is that Galadriel was suspicious of him, and that when Sauron (Annatar in this case) decided to convince her that he wasn't a threat by "bearing her scorn with outward patience and courtesy". This is going to fuel the rest of it:

Imagine the first exchanges between Galadriel and Annatar being letters. Letters of introduction or welcome or whatever. Galadriel's are polite but cold, while Annatar writes cheerful, friendly, but oddly passive-aggressive ones.

When they meet, Galadriel can't tell what's wrong. If Annatar befriends (or seduces) Celebrimbor by furthering his interests and linking himself inextricably to Celebrimbor's greatest goals while being friendly and kind and loving, he throws Galadriel off by being almost exaggeratedly harmless.

Like. If they ever meet, he's polite almost without exception. Except that he likes annoying her a bit (for whatever reason). He insists that they speak in Quenya, because he thinks it a charming tongue, and likes it spoken. He insists that she call him Artano, knowing full well that she'd find it weird.

Annatar also presents himself as oddly bubbly and clingy when he's just with Galadriel and/or Celebrimbor. He smiles almost incessantly around both of them; Tyelpe finds it endearing, while Galadriel is weirded out.

Apart from him being a bit annoying, Galadriel genuinely cannot find anything suspicious or wrong about Annatar. Yet she knows there is SOMETHING wrong, and it gnaws at her all the time.

Annatar and Galadriel's interactions are always the weirdest, and their whole dynamic to outsiders is like: 'What even is going on there? Do I want to know? Probably not.'

Also this way Tyelpe can be conflicted between his two crushes — he really, really likes Annatar, but he's liked Galadriel for longer, but she's also married... I mean, most of us aren't immune to making Tyelpe sad (though we love him!!).

In some way, Annatar and Galadriel are actually fighting over Celebrimbor — but more for influence. Annatar is fairly certain Galadriel isn't in love with Celebrimbor, so he doesn't worry about that.

#I think about this way too much and I don't even know what was going on in my brain when I thought of this #so this is just me being a bit weird hehe #annatar #sauron #mairon #galadriel #celebrimbor #the silmarillion #silm #the second age #the forging of the rings #legendarium tag

[lesbiansforboromir]

@peregrintook​ Here’s the first post I made regarding my enthusiasm for the show BUT to answer your questions here;

- No they didn’t fire Tom Shippey. That’s a pretty prominent misconception going around. And honestly if they had fired him? I woulda been happy about it, he was incredibly present for the Jackson trilogy and look where that got us. But no, Tom Shippey has stated he left the project after working on it for a while for his own I think work reasons and there was no firing or dramatic walking out or any such thing. He’s also not the only Tolkien Academic working on RoP! Carl Hostetter, guy who produced the Nature of Middle Earth, for one was involved in the linguistics for the show (Quenya is going to be spoken regularly and Adunaic script plays a part). Dr Corey Olsen has also seen the project through from pretty much it’s inception as far as I’m aware. But also like... I want to be clear, you don’t need a Tolkien Academic to write a good tolkien adaptation. Someone who’s really familiar with the source material and extraneous books and the complexity within the canon? Sure, but that doesn’t necessarily mean an Academic but kjasd I won’t get on my high horse about the state of Tolkien academia today right now. Point is, they had more than enough people familiar with the text onboard. Which actually brings me nicely to the second part.

- Haven’t heard ‘they didn’t read the silmarillion’ before but no! The show runners, writers and even actors were all either silmarillion-style-nerds before the show or joined their ranks during production. Robert Aramayo actually got so into the books that he started organising salons to discuss specific elements of the text, which is so funny to imagine. And anyway, where has this idea come from that the Silmarillion is the book to read for this section of history? There’s essentially the same info about the Akallabeth in the Silm as there are is the Appendices. The unfinished tales has more to do with Numenor in it and they’ve been quoting stuff from there too. They don’t have the rights to the silm, or the unfinished tales, but they also have special allowances given by the tolkien estate to add in things from those sources anyway. Essentially if you’re hearing someone say ‘they didn’t even read the silmarillion!’ #1 they’re wrong and #2 they probably don’t know all that much about the Akallabeth or it’s sources themselves.

- Lastly jasdh it’s... a star! The basic eight pointed form of the so called feanorian star turns up everywhere in tolkien canon, including on gondorian imagery atop the white tree seven times to represent the ‘seven stars seven stones and one white tree’ poem. The Galadriel we meet in the show is a Commander of Gil Galad’s armies, and Gil Galad is covered in these stars in the show, he’s also got elbereth embroidered into his cloak. The stars likely mean either noldo, or just Gil Galad full stop, both of which are perfectly reasonable uses of an eight pointed star. 

There you are, hope that helps!

#rop #rings of power #the rings of power #rop ama #erran ama #chats #peregrintook

[mirageindex]

Conlang Year Catching Up

I just found out a few days ago that @quothalinguist is doing a set of daily prompts to build a conlang over the course of this year. I'm so excited! I've been toying with drafts of a conlang for ages and this structure seems like just what I need to get it finished. I want to catch up as quickly as I can and follow along. So here goes

DAY 1: Set Intentions for your language I’m making the conlang I’ve always wanted but could never find. I wanted a language made like a toy or a game, simple enough to pick up and play with but large and surprising. Something not quite like any language I might learn in school. And I wanted to be able to make weird art with it. I want to write stories and songs and jokes to share with my friends. I’ve tried this with Quenya, Klingon, Esperanto, LFN, and toki pona. But none of them have all the attributes I’m looking for. So I’ve gotta make it myself.

The language I want is:

Simple to pick up and play with, though not necessarily the simplest possible. Any eccentricities should be interesting enough to justify the extra trouble of learning them. To accomplish this the language will be isolating and analytic, much like Mandarin or various creoles or a lingua franca. The phonology will also be minimal, with a small number of sounds and syllable shapes. The romanization should be as intuitive as possible for a reader only familiar with English. I want to be able to tell somebody “say it in an Italian accent and you’re most of the way there.”

Naturalistic, or as naturalistic as can be without getting too complex to start playing with. I’m thinking of it as an “impressionistic” conlang. It aims to capture something of nature with heightened contrast and color in a few bold strokes. To accomplish this I’ll include etymologies and historical sound changes that a learner can ignore if they’re not interested. I’ll put most of the detail into the vocabulary and leave the grammar minimal.

A priori and not directly resembling any familiar language. Even though my fictional speakers are human, I want this language to be distinctly its own and not invite obvious comparisons to other languages, either natural or imagined. One problem with using a small number of sounds and mostly open syllables is that it immediately reminds people of Hawaiian and Japanese. To get around this my standard romanization will use the letters “c” and “v” rather than “k” and “w”. Spelling with “c” also gives me an opportunity to add an extra wrinkle to the constructed script while keeping things intuitive for a learner with no linguistic background.

Most of all, this language should be fun. I want to keep a light tone throughout. I want every passage to be charming to read. I want to write lessons that are a joy to browse through and play with.

#conlang #conlang year #conlangyear

[hobbitwrangler]

20 questions for writers

Thank you @scyllas-revenge for tagging me! <3

1. How many works do you have on AO3?

Only 6 so far.

2. What’s your total AO3 word count?

21,536

3. What fandoms do you write for?

Only Tolkien fandoms so far.

4. What are your top 5 fics by kudos?

Lol since I only have 6 fics this is basically all of them but from highest to lowest it's Victory in Defeat, A Monster in the Shadows, The Power of Tea (did not expect it to be this popular), At the Death of a Friend and Too Burdened to Fly.

5. Do you respond to comments?

Of course! Not necessarily immediately but I always reply.

6. What is the fic you wrote with the angstiest ending?

I feel like At the Death of a Friend and Too Burdened to Fly are more sad than angsty, so I'll go with A Monster in the Shadows. That fic really put me through my Théoden and Éowyn feels.

7. What’s the fic you wrote with the happiest ending?

I'm going to say it's a tie between Victory in Defeat and White Blossom, although Victory in Defeat gets to the happiness with less reflection beforehand.

8. Do you get hate on fics?

Not so far thankfully.

9. Do you write smut? If so, what kind?

Nope, I have neither the courage nor the conviction.

10. Do you write crossovers?

No. Much as the idea of the three main Istari meeting the witches from Discworld fills me with great joy, I do not have the necessary skills to pull it off.

11. Have you ever had a fic stolen?

Not that I know of.

12. Have you ever had a fic translated?

No, but I'd be open to the possibility.

13. Have you ever co-written a fic before?

No and I think I'd need more time to grow confident in writing within Tolkien's universe before I'd consider it - although it sounds like it could be very fun!

14. What’s your all-time favorite ship?

Farawyn have had me in a chokehold since forever, as anyone who has been on my blog for more than about five minutes will probably know. However, I must also give credit to Odysseus and Penelope (who are getting revived by me rereading the Odyssey), Kaz and Inej and Cor and Aravis (icons). Also Vimes and Sybil (my parents actually).

15. What’s a WIP you want to finish but doubt you ever will?

I have a Hunger Games fic which I started a few years ago because I needed a way of digging into how horrific the idea of Career Districts really is. The characters from it have a very special place in my heart but I don't think it has enough plot to work properly.

16. What are your writing strengths?

Dialogue? I tend to start with dialogue and then build the scene around it. I also think I'm fairly good at representing people's emotions.

17. What are your writing weaknesses?

Description/scenery. I have to force myself to do it every time and it's usually the last part of the writing process for me.

18. Thoughts on writing dialogue in another language in fic?

I could do French and Spanish but that's unfortunately not very useful in Middle Earth. I might be able to sprinkle some Sindarin/Quenya words here and there but whole sentences? No.

19. First fandom you wrote for?

Lotr actually! I've come full circle.

20. Favorite fic you’ve written?

This is like asking a mother to pick her favourite child. I like all of them equally because they've all challenged me in different ways and allowed me to explore different character dynamics, some of which I've loved for ages (Théoden & Éowyn, Éowyn/Faramir) and some of which have only occured to me recently (Saruman & Galadriel, Bilbo & Gilraen). But if pushed I'll go with A Monster in the Shadows for now, since it allowed me to give my take on Théoden and Éowyn's relationship, which I've loved ever since I first watched the lotr movies as a kid.

tagging @imakemywings @glorf1ndel @emyn-arnens @searchingforserendipity25 @brigwife if you haven't done this already!

#tag games

[bad-surprise]

🌟

so i updated my haladriel textfic erase me today (part three is on twitter) and i’d love to talk about that.

This is the wikipedia page I made for Celeborn. I really wanted him to be a mashup of Jack Antonoff and FINNEAS, which is interesting bc I am a known Celeborn hater who likes both of these producers.

Some canon references are more obvious than others. His middle name comes from his canonical Quenya name. Galadhrim Music is a reference to the elves living in Lothlorien. I wanted to make this world bigger bc touring is a huge part of the story, so Beleriand still exists here. I decided to make the Doriath family a family of politicians and civil servants bc i wanted the sort of government/leadership/public service feel but without the ickiness of actually making him nobility (though I did decide that his ancestors should still be royal). His band, Hidden Kingdom, is of course a reference to Doriath itself, and their album, The Fall, is a reference to the sacking of Menegroth.

Almost everything about Hidden Kingdom was taken from Jack Antonoff. He had a punk rock band in high school that toured using a DIY booking guide and played in anarchist bookstores. The approach to writing is heavily influenced by FINNEAS’ comments about how he writes songs for his sister, Billie Eilish, and how his acting experience helps with that.

A little easter egg here that you might catch later on in this part of the fic is that Amroth Lorien is the frontman of the supergroup Tevildo that Halbrand and Galadriel are both members of. You can expect to see a lot more about Tevildo in Part Four, but if it isn’t obvious, they are essentially intended to be the Canadian supergroup Broken Social Scene.

More easter eggs with Erase Me:

- Both Hal and Gal are openly bisexual characters here. They also are not strictly monogamous sexually, which is not a big deal here but referenced occasionally— particularly in the phone call in Part Three between H + G where it’s implied that they have history with the Loriens.

- The Soundtrack podcast was inspired by a podcast episode I heard that was a conversation between Stevie Nicks and Matty Healy. I also wanted the vibe to be very Actors on Actors. We’ll see if Galadriel makes an appearance on it in the future.

- Gal has ADHD, but I’ve never directly referenced this.

- Whispers From The Void = Crazy Days and Nights. The individual posting goes by K, any guesses as to who that is?

- Elrond is not just a music video director but a successful feature film director as well.

- Nothing is happening between Nori and Isildur, I just love fuckboy Isildur vibes.

- G’s solo music is a cross between Eloise’s album Drunk On A Flight (which is referenced frequently throughout the fic) and Phoebe Bridgers. I really imagine the stuff she’s working on now as very similar to the song Drunk On A Flight by Eloise and Moon Song by Phoebe Bridgers.

- The Dagorath Tour is partially inspired by Taylor Swift’s Eras Tour.

- The controversy re: G’s drumming is a reference to Meg White of The White Stripes.

- G does actually DJ as well, but more so just for fun. I imagine her as the sort of person who seems to be able to name any song three seconds into the intro.

- H is the more “serious” musician in terms of what he’ll listen to, but his formal education is lacking compared to G’s.

- “Light” is intended to be a sort of cross between Perth by Bon Iver, Something by The Beatles, and Guiding Light by Foy Vance, in terms of vibes, not necessarily sound.

- Lindalë’s sound is inspired by Silversun Pickups, Metric, The Strokes, Oh Wonder, Better Oblivion Community Center, and Arcade Fire, but with a lot of diverse influences (prog, punk, hip-hop, jazz, lounge) and they’re a little nerdy musically. They are getting into heated arguments over time signature shifts and they will defend their overuse of seventh chords to the death.

- I imagine a favorite album of G’s being Escalator Over The Hill by Carla Bley & The Jazz Composer’s Orchestra, but she also would love Ctrl by SZA, Led Zeppelin IV, and My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy by Kanye West (though she wouldn’t listen to that anymore bc of him being awful).

- H’s music in my head I imagine as a cross between Jeff Buckley, Damien Rice, Ray LaMontagne, Iron & Wine, and Conor Oberst, with a splash of Big Thief in there. His favorite album would probably be something like Grace by Jeff Buckley or Norman Fucking Rockwell by Lana Del Rey, but he also probably loves OK Computer and In Rainbows by Radiohead and Actor by St. Vincent.

- There’s a bit where they talk on Moria Music about playing with Tevildo and that is almost entirely inspired by a video of Broken Social Scene performing Anthems for a 17 Year Old Girl where Emily Haines says “I missed my friends” at the end. I also reference that line in an instagram caption of Celeborn’s.

- They are big into psychedelics and also regularly take MDMA together.

- Galadriel has threatened divorce many times but this is the first time she’s ever actually gone ahead with it.

- Nori is constantly looking for a new job but never actually takes anything bc she feels very loyal to H + G, even though she’s overworked and underpaid lol. She is not their first assistant, but most quit pretty fast.

- Hal has a Google alert set up for G.

- The divorce announcement was inspired by a number of celebrity divorce announcements, but none quite so much as the infamous Gwyneth Paltrow & Chris Martin conscious uncoupling. Others include Ben Affleck & Jennifer Garner and David Arquette & Courteney Cox — I just swapped out the band for references to their kids lol.

- The song “Palantír” is somewhat inspired by Cannibal by Marcus Mumford

That was a lot but I hope it was somewhat enjoyable?

#erasemefic #haladriel #haladriel textfic #my fics

[glorf1ndel]

hiiii! 🌟💀 🌙 ✂ ✨ aaaaaaand 📢 for the middle-earth asks please! :D

🌟 Starlight: you're allowed to live in one of the Elf Kingdoms of Middle Earth, which one are you picking?

Oh, dang. How to choose? My first impulse is to say Eregion in its prime, because living in Ost-in-Edhil while the Gwaith-i-Mírdain are thriving would be so cool. Elves and Dwarves sharing their cultures! The creativity and innovation in one place! But I wouldn't necessarily be a good smith myself, and I think I'd be too scared of Annatar to hang out at the forge. XD My second thought is Rivendell, but that isn't a kingdom. So let's say Doriath during peaceful times. Bonus points if I get to meet Melian.

💀 Hey, did you know-: What is your favourite piece of behind the scenes trivia?

That Viggo Mortensen broke his toe when he kicked the helmet in The Two Towers! I just watched that scene a few days ago.

🌙 Moon runes: which of Tolkien's languages would you most like to speak?

Entish! Who doesn't want to communicate with trees? Also, I'm debating between Quenya and Sindarin...

✂ Cutting room floor: of all of the things that didn't quite make it into the movies, what would you have most liked to see?

ARWEN AT HELM'S DEEP. We missed out on seeing her fight for Middle Earth! And in a badass red outfit, no less!

✨ Evenstar: Who is your favourite middle earth couple?

When I was a kid, it was Aragorn and Éowyn. I still have a soft spot for them and want to sob with happiness whenever they're on screen together. My other favorites are Glorfindel and Erestor, Beren and Lúthien, and Aragorn and Arwen.

📢 Motivational speech: which film speech do you find most invigorating?

Aragorn's speech at the Black Gate gets me every freaking time.

Middle Earth asks!

#silm #silmarillion #lotr #lord of the rings #aragorn #There's a lot of Aragorn in these answers XD #tolkien #tolkien asks

[welcomingdisaster]

2 and 25? 😁

2. a compelling argument for why your fave would never top or bottom

oh no my only weakness... i have to be real every single ship i write i imagine switchy. so take this as a "in certain circumstances" kind of thing. i have written fic that contradicts both of these. it'll be compelling (hopefully) but honestly i don't know if i'll believe it. buuut. maedhros is absolutely a control freak that doesn't like being vulnerable, and sleeping with people is already toeing the line a little bit too much. i wrote enemy of good in part about his control issues in bed and i think that fic kind of captures my headcanons about his general vulnerability issues. i'm working on a longer fic about him experimenting with trauma through kink, and the rush that having power over people gives him -- so i lean towards "maedhros has to be in a very good mental state to bottom, which, considering that he wouldn't recognize a good mental state if bit him in the ass, means he doesn't really bottom." also hmmm. miriel is equally a control freak in my mind's eye. she will bottom but she will never stop bossing her partners around. she has an artistic vision for this sexual encounter please stop interrupting her creative process with your leg cramps 25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing oh man I do not know if I have a good answer for this. here are two weird ones i know that banning a language is a shitty move but i feel like. the level at which people talk about thingol is a person for banning quenya among his people is weirdly disproportionate to the action, especially considering it was prompted by him finding out he was lied to about the deaths of his own people. like it feels like people assign that action a worse moral value than all the murder. that being said that is such a feanorian assessment of morality i do kind of loop back around to admiring it. i'm also reaaallly over hearing arguments about what tolkien intended or wanted in terms of shipping (i think it's still an interesting question when we interpret some other parts of the text!). "tolkien was a catholic who would have hated your gay ships" has weirdly managed to make it on my dash several times and that is obviously the worst one. but i also kind of find the argument of "no i promise tolkien actually made x ship gay on purpose" kind of... tinfoil hat-y? i've never been convinced by them. and honestly, i don't really like the whole framework of applying authorial intent to ships. my current #1 favorite ship for the fandom was absolutely, 110% not intended, but i just... don't need jirt's permission or intention in this. i feel like the arguments about whether something like russingon or turleg (two ships i really like, mind you!) were intended by canon kind of imply that they would be less valid if they were not?

i have no idea if this makes sense & i do actually find the queer readings/analysis very interesting. but if anything i generally tend to assume that they leaked into tolkien from the (secretly queerer than we assume?) fairytales/myths/epics he was inspired by rather than being there by design. i feel like we can point out things like "hey, x plotline mirrors a romance" without needing to necessarily say "tolkien intended this and meant to hide gay stuff in his works." like i'm just over needing that old man's permission or intent.

this has been the rambliest response yet and i hope it's entertaining/coherent lmao. thank you for your ask!!

#lena speaks #polutrope

[gi-nathlam-hi]

“completely had to rework my entire understanding/headcannons around their relationship and i don't mind” okay I’m so curious - what was your understanding/headcanons about Elrond and Galadriel’s relationship before TROP?

Oh! Thank you for the ask omg. I'm so sorry it took me this long to get back to you because this is such a fun question!

TLDR: I headcannoned them as being basically coworkers who mutually respect that the other person is really wise and levelheaded and knows what they're doing, and have a LOT of issues with each other but they've called a mutual truce for Cel and the kids' benefits. And when things are calm/good they're generally fond of each other and amicable. But I just never imagined them being close or familial the way they are in the show at all.

LONG ASS post under the cut because I can't be normal about trying to explain my own thoughts on things and I ended up clipping parts of my fanfics to hopefully illustrate what I mean lol. **Includes references to kidnap fam, fair warning. So if that's not your thing just be warned that this is VAGUELY pro kidnap-fam (but not like...out and loud kidnap fam apologist material at all. They're just mentioned a lot as a motive for why I see Elrond and Gal's relationship the way that I do).

I just never got the impression that they were ever close in the way that Rings of Power portrays them. I think my thoughts are more easily summed up with some of these snippets:

Elrond never knew quite how to feel when Lady Galadriel visited Imladris. The fact that he was a Fëanorian fosterling and didn’t seem to openly hate either Maedhros or Maglor had always been a point of tension between the two of them-- begrudgingly softened at first by his service to Gil-Galad in Lindon (she had regarded him with marked suspicion then), softened further by long years of strictly political interactions which gradually morphed into a form of friendship, and then at last that friendship had turned familial when he had married Celebrían. But familial relationships could often be far more fraught with unbearable awkwardness than friendships, and so it had, in some ways, been a step backward for the two of them.

-

A hand closed around that notion the way an eagle might snatch a mouse. Elrond sucked in a breath and shut his mind before the inquiry could actually grasp hold. They had reached the council chamber. Lady Galadriel was already there in her white gown standing at the overlook, staring up at the rising moon and pointedly ignoring him as if she had not just reached for his thoughts the way a small child might reach for an especially enticing piece of candy.  Elrond paid her a respectful bow. “My apologies for rushing out so abruptly and for keeping you waiting, my lady.” He stuck with Sindarin, no matter how many times Galadriel always tried to coax him into Quenya. He had a lingering Fëanorian lisp that he had absorbed from his fathers as a child and had never quite been able to rid himself of, much to the amusement of his wife and the chagrin of her parents. She turned to look at him with a nod. The corners of her mouth curled up. “The child?” The question was in Quenya, naturally. He never would understand why, if she disliked his accent so much, she insisted on trying to get him to speak it. 

-

So, basically things aren't necessarily tense between them but they aren't great, either. But they for sure have never disliked each other in my head. There is just a whole lot of baggage. Galadriel still considers him part of her family and loves him and likes to tease him in her own way! Case in point:

Thranduil had hardly spared him a glance through most of breakfast, but now Elrond felt him studying him, squinting. He caught the king’s eye and frowned. “What?” “Are you aware that your ears are bruising? Rather impressive bite mark, I must say.” Elrond flushed red. “I hadn’t noticed.” Thranduil hummed into his teacup. “Blush as prettily as you like. It doesn’t help them blend in any better. You may wish to consider wearing your hair a bit...differently. Though I suppose your wife rather likes the look of her handiwork. No--” he put a hand on Elrond’s arm. “Do not rush out, mellon nín. T’would draw far too much attention. Celebrían!”  Celebrían looked up from mid conversation with her mother. Elrond shielded his very pink face in one hand.  “You must be more careful with your poor husband. Peredhel skin bruises more easily, I think.”  Elrond could just fade from shame. He felt sure Galadriel was hiding a choked laugh in her cup. Celebrían shot Thranduil a knife-sharp glare. Thranduil reclined in his chair with a smug smirk and gave one of Elrond’s uniquely-shaped ears a fond tug.  “Oh, stop turning so pink, Peredhel,” Galadriel said. She nudged Celebrían in the shoulder. “You have always liked his ears.”  Celebrían let out a cry of pure outrage. “ Amya! Please!”  “It was all she could talk about during your betrothal.” When Lindir came running up to the dais with some announcement, Elrond had never been more glad to see him.

But there is still some underlying tension and I kind of have it in my head that they have a sort of...agree to disagree dynamic when it comes to Maedhros and Maglor, which leads to a LOT of simmering conflict that can bubble up in times of stress. I do like the whole concept of kidnap fam but my feelings on them are really complex...and that's a post for another day. But basically long story short: I think Elrond does consider Mae and Mags to be his dads (more than Earendil. I know that's uh...a VERY contentious headcannon but I stick by it). Galadriel understandably hates this and in my head it's just this GIANT source of conflict for them.

And I think rather than me muddling through trying to explain how I carry this headcannon out when writing their relationship it's better again if I just show you lol:

A commotion buzzed through the corridor outside and Galadriel stormed into the room the very next second, eyes gleaming with fury. Elrond shot to his feet and stepped between her and the lump on the bed. “Stand aside,” she said coldly.  “I will not,” Elrond replied, trying to sound much more calm than he felt, drawing himself up to full height. “I apologize, mother-of-my-beloved, but if you would do him harm, you must strike me first.”  War waged in her green eyes.  Elrond held his breath, and then quietly pleaded: “Please, my lady. He is your kin.”  “That mattered little to him or his Oath,” she snarled back. “Or have you forgotten, Eärendilion? Is your memory so short?”   The patronym made him flinch. Still, he would not move. “I have forgotten nothing.” “It would not be kinslaying,” she said, stepping to the left. Elrond matched her, still barring her way. She glared at him. “It would be justice.” Despite himself, he felt tears brimming in his eyes. “Look at him!” he hissed. “Look at him and tell me justice has not been paid a thousand times over!”  Her gaze passed over Elrond’s head to Maglor, to where he lay broken, bloodied, and very small on the bed, gripped in a sleep that bordered perilously on death. Her expression did not soften. She made another step for him and Elrond barred her way yet again, bowing his head. “I will not fight you,” he murmured. Truly, in his state he could not. “But neither will I let you take his life. We stopped killing our kin a long time ago, please do not start again. Not here. Not in my house. Not now. Please-- look to the future as you have always done. Stop this madness. Let it end.” He could feel her glaring down with him with eyes that burned. The air lay thick between them. Every muscle in his body was tense, ready to throw himself over Maglor if need be-- but Galadriel didn’t move. It felt like hours passed.  Galadriel lifted her sword and he half-sprung into action, but she simply slammed it back into its sheath. “You are beloved-of-my-daughter, and I have grown very fond of you. But should evil befall your city, my daughter, or my grandchildren on account of the Fëanorian it will be on your head, and your fate will be the same as his.”

So before TROP, this is kind of what their relationship at its core boils down to. They have a LOT of issues with each other that they have learned to set aside/work past due to a) being coworkers for the greater good of middle earth (bearers of the Three) b) Celebrian's benefit c) Arwen, Elladan, and Elrohir's benefit Like, they're fond of each other now. They know each other really well now. But I just never had it in my head that they were at all super chill with each other during the Second Age. It's really funny actually?? TROP's dynamic between Galadriel and Elrond looks a LOT more like how I imagined Gil-Galad and Elrond's relationship before seeing the show! And vice-versa. Just take show!Gil and Elrond's dynamic and apply it to Elrond and Galadriel and that's pretty much how I viewed their dynamic during the Second Age (and during times when they're uh...fighting....for some reason in the Third Age re: the above snippets lol).

That isn't to say that Galadriel necessarily disliked/hated Elrond in my head. She just didn't trust him due to his connection with and unwillingness to let go of Maedhros and Maglor.

If her daughter must be wed, it would be to no one less than the Peredhel. Galadriel had originally envisioned Gil-Galad (queen of the Noldor was Celebrían’s birthright, if Galadriel had anything to say of it—she was just as Noldorin as she was Sindarin, and the granddaughter of Arafinwë and great granddaughter of Finwë, no less), but Gil-Galad was not available. The Peredhel was descended from Melian the Maia and Galadhon on his mother’s side, and could have had the crown himself if he so wished—being descended from Ñolofinwë several generations back. Beyond that he was clever, a strategist, a politician, and in possession of his own realm. He would be able to give Celebrían the standard of living she was accustomed to. The life she deserved. He was pleasant to look at, too (on some days he gave Galadriel goosebumps, for how in the right light beneath certain trees it seemed Lúthien— perhaps even Melian herself—was incarnated before her eyes).  And he was kind and gentle, which never hurt. It was almost a waste: he hadn’t a shred of ambition for all his cunning and claim. Then again, neither did Celebrían. Perhaps that was for the best. Ambition had thus far been rather ruinous for the Noldor. It seemed the younger generations had managed to learn from their predecessors’ mistakes. 

so....yeah...

I do really LOVE what they've done with them in the show though!! So I've sort of adopted it as a secondary viewpoint because I'm so fond of it. So many of the show's interpretations of characters (especially GIL-GALAD) are WILDLY different to how I view them that I kind of have a seperate box in my head now of Rings of Power 'verse as opposed to my usual "canon" 'verse that I tend to keep consistent throughout my work.

Whew! That was a WAY longer answer than I'm sure you wanted lol. Don't ask me questions like this. I can go for hours and hours about my own thoughts on things lol.

#elrond #galadriel #maedhros #maglor #kidnap fam #trop #rings of power #the rings of power #my fics #i guess #lol #someone take tumblr away from me #i need to go to bed

[amaristheowlcat]

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I will not reblog anything on this blog because I want this place to be mine and want to share only my thoughts here, although I will like and share posts that I see with people around me. Also, I am an anxious bean and would like to be not too noticeable, so I'm not using tags except for trigger warnings (if you follow me and I miss some, I'll happily add them when notified). Can't get accustomed to too many people in my orbit too fast ! c:

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the TTRPG Mage : The Ascension (I will spam you if you ask me about it)

cooking (love to learn about it, but also love to actually do it !!!)

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Mo Dao Zu Shi / The Untamed

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