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winns-stuff · 1 year

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LO RANT:

I’m sorry tomorrow I’ll do the appreciations but I need to get this off of my chest because it’s been irking me badly. About the whole assault plot story does anyone else feel like the other side of the fandom cares more about Hades’ trauma than Persephone’s? Let me explain.

Basically I saw this post on reddit talking about Persephone and Hades still not having sex after 10 years. Luckily there were decent people in the comments saying that it takes time to get over something as traumatic as what Persephone went through but there was of course one person stating that it was taking too long and that they should’ve did it already. That’s one of my biggest gripes with that side of the fandom, not saying it’s all of them of course, they seem to minimize and degrade Persephone’s trauma in order to see NSFW which is incredibly disturbing and uncomfortable for me to read. I hate how seeing them fuck is more important than Persephone actually healing and that’s why I mentioned in another rant that those people aren’t actually there for the right reason, it’s not registering to them that Persephone went through something that traumatized her and instead of wanting to see the journey they’d rather forfeit it for half assed sex panels that webtoon barely allows.

It’s just so disgusting to me how this fandom (those people that I’m talking about) has evolved into just adults and young people wanting to see sex without any plot or substance. If you want smut that bad go on wattpad or something it’s incredibly tiring seeing sexual comments being made about how Persephone and Hades will do it and it’s even more frustrating watching people completely forget about what happened or even try to say things like “it’s not that big of a deal” or “it’s been 10 years” or stuff such as that. Invalidating a victims experience because you want to see them rush to get intimate is disgusting no matter how you say it and it needs to be called out because there’s been way too many people expressing such piss poor views about the whole situation.

Now when I say the fandom cares more about Hades’ trauma and carry more validation when it comes to his I say this because it’s been numerous amounts of times where the stans (not all but the ones I’m describing) have considered Hades’ trauma and defended him while taking it into consideration. There’s never been a time where the stans went that hard for Persephone and never have they ever considered her trauma when talking about LO, it’s really frustrating how people are understanding about Hades but draw the line at understanding Persephone’s assault. Every single thing he does the stans understand it because of his trauma, they’re patient with him, they’re considerate, they’re willing to wait until Hades is healed and he’s had centuries worth of time to and access to therapists. Persephone barely got one therapist visit before being banished in the mortal realm, she doesn’t get any time to process, she doesn’t get the patience, she doesn’t get the understanding from fans all she gets is sexualization and complete insensitivity of her situation.

I can’t blame this all on the fans of course because the comic is the main reason why so many fans don’t take this shit seriously. The way Persephone’s trauma is written lacks actual importance and there’s barely anything in her trauma scenes that show seriousness. I’m so sick of her trauma being used as jokes or people drawing faces to make the scene more funny when they’re talking about serious things, you can’t expect your fans to take it seriously when nothing you provide them with is serious in the slightest. It’s fucking annoying and angering how the comic dedicates so many chapters for us to explore Hades’ brain and pick apart his trauma, see how much it affects him, see how damaged he is by it, and understand how the relationships he wishes to gain crumble because of it. What do we get with Persephone? Nothing. Her trauma is cutesy and light, nothing about it invokes real emotion and causes you to really understand just how detrimental it is to her mental health. You only see glimpses of it from time to time but it’s more like a reminder and less like actual trauma, it feels like the team forgets about her trauma and sprinkles any bit of it in without showing us the same quality as they do with Hades.

Knowing this information, it actually makes sense that people think this way about her assault. As infuriating as it is to see such dismissal happening on Persephone’s part I can see why people are more hyped for Persephone’s intercourse with Hades and not her actual journey. It’s because her journey is being sped through like a damn speed run challenge, she barely gets any real time to actually process what happened to her and she barely got time to notice how much she’s changed. There’s barely any changes from Persephone before the assault and Persephone after, which is stupid as hell because we get comparisons and physical differences between Hades before and after his trauma happened. We’re more informed about Hades’ trauma then we are to Persephone’s so it probably does feel like nothing ever happened to her. After a few days of it Eros tells her what happened to her, then I believe we get to see more of how distressed she is about the situation (because of Apollo showing up) which afterwards barely even resurfaced after it was done, then we get some dialogue about Persephone not feeling comfortable in her bed which is understandable but it was only used as a ploy to get Hades to sleep with her which is just fucking stupid because she’s still in the same.. nevermind man, then like during the second week she runs away and we can see her first reaction to the whole situation before she’s saved by Hades and never talks about it again, and then we see her getting like one therapist visit after calming Hades down and trying to comfort him after telling him about what happened.

Do y’all see the pattern? The comic barely gives Persephone any stage to voice what she feels or speak about what happened to her. Unlike Hades we don’t get the privilege of having whole chapters dedicated to her and her healing process, it’s all rushed and sped through because now after 10 years mourning and stressing about her land and her sentence she’s now just absolutely dick obsessed and wants to have sex immediately. I understand that Rachel was trying to show some of the affects of the assault but at the same time being hyper sexual isn’t a good thing, it’s literally a form of self harm because you don’t feel good afterwards so for the comic to put being hyper sexual in a good light for a few fucking laughs is absolutely fucked up. There’s a difference between making a serious scene light hearted and completely making a joke out of it and there’s no way Lore Olympus actually respects the serious topics that they put into the story.

#lo critical #anti lore olympus #anti lo

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viktoriakosci666 · 2 years

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I dont understand HOW sjm has SO many fans! Like, all those celebrities who have done a bad thing (Amber Heard, Chris Brown) or believe in something that is seen as negative and hurts other people (JK Rowling) are terrorised by the media and its people! But sjm? No, she totally didn't do ANYTHING bad or terrible! 😱

It's not like she copied other authors works and implemented them into her own story! It's not like she created the Illyrians, who are POC (apparently) only to HATE on them and make them out to be misogynistic and abusive to females?! Other authors would be getting called racist by now! It's not like she sexualized Nesta being skinny and even body shamed her in the books! It's not like she acts like her MCs are feminists, only to be brought down for a man who then impregnates them and lies to them about their life being in danger! Oh, HOW feminist of you Rhys! How feminist of you Sarah Janet MyAss! She should be getting called a misogynist, but SOMEHOW she isn't? She also makes out that woman can't be powerful unless they know how to fight! Wow. Thanks Sjm, I've always known I was weak during my fight from poverty, but it's ALWAYS good to get an amateurs opinion.

And then there's the whole Mor thing, with terrible LGBT representation. Her own fans were not sure whether Mor was a lesbian or Bisexual because she just didn't explain it well enough when writing that conversation with Feyre, as Mor states that she's attracted to both genders, and YET her reaction to her sleeping with Helion REALLY doesn't show that she's bisexual, as to me personally it seemed like she was scarred from having sex with a man instead of having sex with HELION himself.

And finally. . . 😤 ignoring the trauma of LITERALLY every character except Feyre and Rhys, despite being VERY aware that her series is popular and MANY young adults and teenagers would read these books and think 'Oh, I guess this behaviour is okay', which, it's isn't! Rhys sexually assaulting Feyre, Cassian gaslighting Nesta, Azriel being willing to screw Elain but then ditch her. . . none of that is okay! But young people don't know that and aren't aware of this, so they believe EVERY single toxic and abusive thing that sjm tells them, and THATS exactly why Feysand and Nessian still exists!

Nesta: suicidal, depressed, sexual assault victim, has been body shamed and over sexualized by her mate, has PTSD, may have a food disorder

Lucien: possibly suicidal, sexual assault victim, abused and used by LITERALLY every single person he has ever met

Tamlin: borderline depressed, PTSD, sexual assault victim, may be suicidal

SJM: Oh, that's so sad 😥! But let me just ignore this *wacks away the coloured letters* and I'll forget about it! 😚 Let's focus more on Rhys, Feyre and Gwyn!!

And I'm not invalidating Rhys, Feyre or ESPECIALLY Gwyns trauma. Gwyn SHOULD get a healing arc. But SJM completely forgot about the other threes trauma, especially Lucien and Tamlins, because she knew that if she spoke again about how poor Tamlin and Lucien are, feysand stans would be on her ass being like 'Lucien left feyre to die! Tamlin locked her up!'. But instead of giving the two characters some closure, she just decided to make them the NC's lap dogs (Nesta and the Valkyries too).

And I'm not saying this because I hate Gwyn (Love her, she deserves better than Assriel and having Eris as her grandpapa, Lucien would be a better choice) but SJM DOES kind of make what happened to Gwyn stand out more than the trauma that Nesta and Emerie went through. . . I was rereading Acosf, and I ALWAYS got a bit teary when it came to Gwyn speaking about her trauma, but with Nesta?

The fact that Thomas nearly raped her was basically GLOSSED over and Emerie having an abusive and misogyny family who clipped her was just summed up in one page (if I remember correctly) whilst mentions of what had happened to Gwyn were scattered all over the book, and since this was NESTAS journey, I was surprised at first when I first read the book (acosf), cause I didn't really care about Gwyn then, and I was just hopping from excitement about Nestas trauma being mentioned more often (since I was scared sjm would never mention her trauma again), or even handled better, but it just. . . was a lot of Feysand and Gwyn propaganda, and Nesta slander. Yeah 😭

Sjm EVEN focuses more on LoA and Helion than Lucien, Tamlin and Nesta, who ARE essentially some of the main characters 😭

Anyway, SJM ignoring all this trauma that the characters have or even acting like it isn't important, is going to teach those people that trauma should be ignored and forgotten, that if you're suicidal, NO ONE cares! If you're being body shamed, NO ONE cares! If you're being harassed or sexually assaulted, NO ONE cares! If someone is being racist to you, NO ONE cares!

And I think that THIS is why SJM should just stop WRITING BOOKS! Because people DO care about your trauma, and SJM is going to make you think otherwise. The author may not say it directly, but her work is proven to be misogynistic, racist, sexist, and as they say, 'the words and actions within a book says more about the author than the actual book'.

#anti sjm #acosf #lucien vanserra #gwyn berdara #elain archeron #tamlin #anti sarah janet maas #nesta archeron

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lovecolibri · 1 year

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I mostly really enjoyed this ep and the Buddie content was amazing. But what the fuck is this pacing? They keep setting up what looks to be big dramatic storylines and then resolving them suddenly within an episode or two. Buck’s parents. Wendell. Denny. And mostly in kind of unsatisfying ways. Literally the only storyline to carry all season is Buck getting his old roommate pregnant? When everyone hates that! It’s infuriating because what this show does well it does amazing- the character relationships being first among those things. But they keep like trying to swing big and pull their punch at the same time and I’m in the ring going 😵‍💫🥴🤷‍♀️

"But they keep like trying to swing big and pull their punch at the same time" ding ding ding! This is EXACTLY my issue with 6x11. The episode tried to be found family over bio family but kept pulling back to make the Buckley parents the center of attention and acting like pod people with no explanation. LITERALLY one scene with Maddie and Buck (or Buck with Bobby or Eddie or literally ANY of the firefam) about how things have been going better and while Buck still isn't ever going to be close to them, and it doesn't excuse or invalidate the trauma he suffered at their hands, he understands them a little better now could have been enough, and then they could have fucked off at seeing him in the hospital because it's too much for them and we could have dedicated that episode fully to the firefam and Bobby's relationship with Buck. That episode also tried to make it out to be Buck choosing to live for himself, which is EXACTLY what he needed! But they turned the coma "dream" into a nightmare so he never would have chosen to stay there anyway, AND the reason he went back turned into, "I'm giving up my parents being loving to me because other people are hurting in this world" which....is NOT him going back for himself at all!

Outside of that, they did the same thing with Madney! I may not have agreed with how they handled her absence in 5a, but then they gave us Boston and their dramatic reunion and "I got out of the ocean for YOU(Chim), both of you (Chim and Jee, second to her mentioning Chim)" only to turn around and have them breakup OFF SCREEN between one episode and the next and never really talk in depth about it! And then they get back together and everything has been fine! Talk about whiplash!

And it's frustrating because it's something the show used to do SO well that it felt like these deep emotional storylines took up a lot of space when really, they didn't spend a lot of episodes or even dialogue on them! There was just a DEPTH to the scenes they DID have that made things carry a weight that they just...don't now. YES the show only has 40-something minutes and 18 episodes, they cannot show everything. But they used to show the important stuff, or pack a punch in a few lines and now everything is just SO surface level filler that nothing feels like it has any depth or weight. And now when they wrap something up in one episode it's like, we didn't even get a chance to FEEL it! And then conversely, we have these ridiculous plots for Buck that just draaaaaag out that are just wasted potential and turned into jokes and then when the audience hates it, gets changed halfway through and then makes even LESS sense than before!

KR has mentioned several things that are "just for fun" or "we wanted to have fun with this" or "we made it a joke about" and that's the problem!! She has NO respect for ANY of these characters, or their stories, or their HISTORIES and how that might inform their actions. She just turns everything into a joke and it removes all the depth and weight this show used to have that kept it feeling grounded and real without being dark and heavy. GOD they need to get her TF out of here.

#my sweet nonnie friends #911 #911 spoilers #evan buckley #madney #kr's obsession with bio family over the family people choose to make strikes again #someone get her away from this show for REAL for real #clearing out my inbox #don't judge me some of these are going to be so old...

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three-eyed-cat · 2 years

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This post is...kinda weird to make. In anyway I'm not invalidating anyone & just talking of my own experience w a suspicion of DID/OSDD

First of all, disclaimer - a therapist of mine, told me he had a suspicion of one of these disorder. I am not claiming to have one of them at all, I'm waiting to go to an actual professional that works with dissociative disorder before claiming to have anything! I also want to say- never talked about any head mates or anything to my therapist - just told him my experience with dissociation, without even mentioning it was dissociation (i was not sure therefore i didn't want to tell him that it was that, as I'm not a professional). Also! My experience is not something to steal & tell to your therapist to get a dissociative diagnostic. I just wanna talk about my own experience with dissociation & possible DID/OSDD.

Now, what did i tell him?

I simply told him, sometimes, i forget everything. I'm at the back of my brain, in a dark room, not able to see through my eyes. I can feel my body but in a weird way, in a blurry way. In a way where, my body does the basic tasks it needs to do to survive. My body and mouth try to socialize, seems normal, but i have no idea how what's going on. It only happens when I'm under really stressing circumstances. When i get out of it, I'm kinda lost. I know where I am, but it feels like i was not there for the longest time possible. It's like i was blocked at the moment where i was still there before going to the back of my brain, and the last 5 minutes before i went to my brain are playing over and over again while I'm not there. I have no ideas if that makes sense. It's a weird ass sensation, but i had that for the longest time i can remember of. Just, I'm not there anymore. My body is in automatic mode, then i wake up and i have control over everything again.

It's a really weird experience that i was scared to talk about for the longest time, before i met my actual psychiatrist. I was scared of it, because while on my dissociative state, people told me i was different. I acted like i didn't know them that much, or i changed my way of speaking, and yeah. Personally, i don't wanna advance on if it's DID/OSDD or not. I'm not qualified to diagnose myself (self dx is fine! As long as you do correct research and don't take all your information out of some carrd), and i personally truly think it's just some dissociation where my body goes in automatic mode, and just, change bc it needs to do the bare minimum to survive & seems normal.

There was a lot to unpack after this appointment, it was a really hard appointment. So, he diagnosed me with a dissociative disorder (NOT DID/OSDD! just dissociation), highly suspected some PTSD as he told me i had a very strong form of dissociation, and that i was practically always trauma responding to everyone & everything (I'm not sure if that makes sense tbh, so I'm not advancing myself either on if i have PTSD or not- yes I'm trauma responding a lot, but i honestly think it was a misdiagnosis, but I'm continuing to see him and we'll figure that out), and he told me about the possible DID/OSDD related to my possible PTSD.

At first, i was scared asf. I do not want to have DID/OSDD, i have friends with diagnosed DID/OSDD, and i know how bad they're struggling. I never understood people wishing to have these disorder, it's not some kind of funny roleplay, it's truly something's that is super hard to deal with. I was so scared, that i was dissociating. I can't really remember what happened at all.

In second, i decided to accept my dissociation. With or without DID/OSDD, i have a dissociative disorder. I can forget hours, days, months, years of my life, just by being to the back of my brain. It's still scary asf, but i accepted it. With or without a certain disorder, I'll still have a disorder.

Sometimes i get scared, bc i feel like someone there and I'm having conversations with my inner voice. But never, the terms "alter" or "headmates" comes in the conversation. It's just, some funky little conversation with my inner dialogue (it's not funky at all, i absolutely hate it)

But now, here's come what my friends told me when I was dissociating. I act, completely different. not in a "I'm doing the bare minimum to survive", in a way where I just totally change and i still act like a person, but differently. I apparently talk about experience i can't remember when I'm not dissociating. They told me, that it was fine. Whenever it was just a random dissociative disorder or DID/OSDD, i didn't have to act like it wasn't there. That, i could just go with it the way i always went with it, by being in the back of my brain when I'm under high stress. And it helped a lot! Because, when you scared of having a disorder, you usually either go in full denial, or convince yourself you have it to feel legitimate. But the easiest way to go through a suspicion of a disorder, is honestly, just continuing your life like you always did. Ofc, talk about ur symptoms to a professional, because a diagnosis will always help you , to figure yourself out & to deal with it.

I promise, living your life without asking you much questions about whenever you have the disorder or not, helps so so much, and make you realize that having a (future) diagnostic won't change everything drastically. You just have to live your life like you always did, DID/OSDD or not, don't pressure yourself about whenever you have it or not! Just- stay like you always did, doubt or denial wont help you.

//- i hope nothing was offensive in this post, sorry it's a long post. I just needed to get my experience with dissociation and a suspicion of DID/OSDD out on somewhere. Please - no hate, fakeclaim, or anything mean in the comments/repost. Feel free to speak about your experience on there tho, I'll be sure to read every single one of them. Also don't invalidate anyone's experience. Please take all care, systems and non systems, and drink water!

#actually dissociative #unspecified dissociative disorder #suspected DID #did/osdd #dissociative #dissociation #throw away #mental health #share your experience

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avengers-rule103 · 2 years

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i don't know if i just haven't paid enough attention (very possible) or what but i just don't feel like i know Will at all and it continues to bug the heck out of me. Season 1 we see him for like 5 minutes before he disappears and is gone for the rest of the season apart from a few flashbacks like when Jonathan was showing him that song. Then in season 2 he was... possessed? is that the word? by that demogorgon virus bug/slug/mind-flayer thing and it was him but it also wasn't him because he was being controlled. Season 3 he was longing to just still be the kid he was before he went missing, and season 4 he was... there? and yeah, it's totally valid that he'd want to cling to the kid he was after the trauma he went through, i'm not invalidating that at all, i'm just saying i don't feel like i know present day Will... like at all. It's something i struggled with in season 1 because i'm very much a character person when it comes to media, if i can't get attached to at least one character i can't hold interest in whatever show/movie/book it is. While i was learning about all of these other characters present day (for season 1) i was only getting who Will was before he went missing and ngl it made it really hard for me to care about him. i remember like half way through season 1 i just wanted them to find him so that plot could be over. I'm gonna get shit for this, but before i do i want to mention that i swear i'm not trying to blame it all on his character, i am very ready and willing (haha willing...will-ing... get it? eh bad joke) to accept my lack of attention. Maybe rewatching the show (again, admittedly a little slower) would help?

#will byers #stranger things #no this doesn't belong in the anti tag #cause i'm not anti him #i just feel like i don't know him very well

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twelvedaysinaugust · 2 years

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Hi!

I'm sorry for whatever you just found out about Louis. I know it's disheartening to have people even celebrities you care about let you down. I hope if it's something in the past, you can find it in you to remember that people make lots of mistakes. And I would never use trauma as an excuse but the boys went through so much during 1d, they were kids and this world is all they know. I hope whatever he did then, he isn't doing anymore but I hope you find comfort somewhere.

Anyway I was scrolling through your posts and I thought it was common knowledge but wasn't the whole Louis saying larries are crazy phone call debunked? The people even came forward a few years ago saying so. Not to mention, Louis knew the phone call was being recorded. I'm not sure why he'd put himself in a position where he called the majority of his fanbase "lunatics". I can't find the master post but it was debunked very thoroughly and I'm not sure why there's so many people using that as a basis of "Louis hates larries"

https://twitter.com/DarkGoldenAngel/status/1520885507588345856?t=4MLPHqXrVY6LOCEDxc40Ow&s=19

I came across this post too. I just always assumed it was common knowledge but guess not. Unless I'm wrong. But the ones who recorded it came out 3 years ago and said they edited it.

Hello.

Unfortunately, it looks like the tweet has been removed. I’ve never seen an actual debunk of the phone call. I know people say it was edited, the girls recanted, etc. But I’ve really looked and I can’t find any evidence of that. If someone comes across it, please send it to me.

Regardless, I’ve moved past the phone call. However, someone contacted me the other day and told me something that was in a similar vein - Louis saying (privately) that Larry makes him uncomfortable and is disrespectful to his son. And this happened very recently. I know some people believe Louis is more or less being “forced” to make these denials, but by whom? He’s left Sony. Closeting is never the closeted person’s fault. That’s true. But it doesn’t give a person a free pass to use or mislead other people, either.

In short, I’m feeling like Larry is a fundamentally abusive and unhealthy dynamic on all sides. As fans, I feel like we’re trying to make sense and meaning out of behavior that is, well, nonsensical. Regardless of the trauma Louis and Harry experienced in the band and in their personal lives, they are responsible for their actions. And right now, they are both feeding Larry at the expense of their public partners. If they aren’t together at the moment, then H/L are also taking advantage of young queer fans who relate to this narrative. If Louis feels that Larrie speculation is harmful to Freddie (on some level, I agree), then he has no business pointing at Larry signs, covering “7,” having the smiley face wink blue and green, I could go on.

I can’t imagine a world where Larry wasn’t real at one point. Considering everything that has happened, that would honestly be the strangest explanation of them all, in my opinion. However, I have a sinking feeling that Larry isn’t real in 2022. That video from Houston was strange, without a doubt. But Louis and Harry both had time off, yet Harry stayed in LA and Louis stayed in the UK. No amount of strange coincidences or signaling can convince me they’re in a relationship if I don’t see evidence of them spending time together. And if they have been together for 12 consecutive years like a lot of Larries believe, why did Harry say he was single at 26 in the Better Homes & Gardens interview? I realize he’s not going to out himself, but he simply didn’t have to say that. If he was with Louis at that time, then that statement was horribly invalidating.

I’m at the point where I would like to support them both as individuals, regardless of their past or present relationship status, but it’s difficult to do that when they seem to be playing into Larry so fervently. They don’t owe us an explanation, a coming out, or anything along those lines. But this has gone on mind numbingly long. And even in 2022, both Harry and Louis are actively playing into it. Either fans are getting strung along, Eleanor (and H/L’s other public partners) are getting strung along, or both. At a certain point, enough is enough, you know?

I really enjoy Tumblr (and Larry - even after everything that’s happened), and I want to continue blogging. However, I also want to be honest and truthful on this blog. Right now, I really don’t know which way is up. None of this is making sense to me from any angle. Like I said, I’m worried that we’re trying to make sense of nonsensical behavior.

I’m really hoping no one takes offense to this, I’m just trying to be honest and explain where my head has been for the last few days.

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thetalesofaneverydaymillennial · 8 months

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Honestly I don't even know where to start

I suppose we could begin with my earliest memory.

I am not sure that I wish to only discuss my woes, as it may even be triggering for me. Maybe these small portions will allow more of background development, but I digress.

My first memory was of going to a Sam's Club. I was in a cart riding with my sister and asking mom and dad for popcorn as we passed by this stand that had a popcorn machine and also sold hot dogs.

The memory after was crawling in and out of a tent in the living room of my parents trailer. It was TINY, honestly I just remember that I was sleeping in this tiny TP like pink tent and my sister was in the closet of their room. I was in a little sleeping dress and I went to stack my dolls by the front door in case the house burned down I wanted to make sure that I could take my toys with me.

The next memory that I have was that of our home/ apartment in NC. If I am honest I truly only have clips of memory, I specifically remember this place had so many roaches that would crawl all over our plates as they dried, I remember the neighbor that we had was really aggressive with my parents and I truly wanted monkey bars in my sister's room. I would imagine she had them with vines that covered them.

My next memory is only a short one of riding with my favorite school teacher. Her name will be Miss Applesauce. She babysat me and rode in a jeep without windows and lots of wind. I remember seeing her husband with dark short hair and a cheesy grin. They seemed to love one another. Although she was my favorite, I was always in toruble. I remember being disciplined often for speaking.

**Trigger warning for SA of a minor**

Then I was switched to a new teacher. She liked daffodils, but man was she mean. She truly yelled at me so often. She took me to the principles office and they gave my mother, who was a teacher there, a paddle and instructed either she hit me or they would. She did. I remember meeting Mike, not his true name but it doesn't matter. He would force me to sit on his hand, get me in trouble, and kept touching my body. When I mentioned it to the teacher, she never believed me, I was the only one to be punished. It continued to escalate until finally one day he brought his friend to a playset I was on and this big red headed boy forced me under this playset and Mike came to the other side to trap me. He took his hands and forced my mouth open, he put his tongue into my mouth and said if I didn't do the same with mine his friend would hit me over and over. His friend got closer and so I did it. Suddenly my best friend at the time appears on this plastic probably Little Tikes playset and catches the act. She RUNS to the teacher to tell, the bigger boy hits me in the nose hard and tells me not to tell. The memory following blacks out, I remember my parents talking about it at the table, it got quiet. My dad was angry. They didn't believe me, but suddenly they decided to homeschool my sister and I afterwards until middle school. It was short notice the loss of my friend was devastating and I would search for her until my teens. I cried about her for years. She used to tell me if I didn't marry this blonde friend of ours we couldn't be friends. Its funny now because he and I are friends on Facebook to this day. I did find Mike once. That was genuinely upsetting.

I wouldn't realize that was my first assault until I was 27 years old and the memory finally returned. I was 5. The age of my daughter at the time of my realization. My family hid this from me and denied it happened after that. Remember that because it becomes a pattern. The invalidating, disbelief, denial, and blame onto me. Yummy.

Side note, this was a Christian school, also a repeating pattern. I do want to warn you, I have severe amounts of religious trauma and it will carry through my posts. Understand it is not anger focused at God or whom they worship, but my family and those in the church.

Also unfortunately my in-laws wish to enroll my oldest in a Christian school as well which I definitely declined. As expected, it has been refused to drop and continues to be prompted to this day.

I think that's enough dumping for the day as I am flushed and a bit flustered. These memories are hard but sincerely made worse by how invalidated I was made my whole life. Honestly, my whole life I have been the scapegoat, the black sheep, the source of all things wrong in my family. No matter sacrificing my wellbeing, mental health, and my childhood, it truly was never enough and carries through to this day. If I am honest, it really bothers my that my siblings need therapy for watching my parents handle me as a child. I try to not blame myself. Ultimately I wanted to protect them the most.

But, although I have experienced many traumas in my life, I really do hope this helps someone in the abyss. Someone else like me on their healing journey where it feels so alone. Your feelings are valid, your traumas and memories are valid, and if you think no one else loves you I will. Always. My mantra now is "You are safe and you are loved it isn't happening anymore". Give yourself time and grace to heal. I have been going a year solid and I know I am not done, but if I made it this far I will be damned if I give up now. I may fall and I may have to restart or change perspective but I will fight for me.

Always.

Drink lots of water, it helps deepen the healing. Love your little millennial mess.

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dayscapism · 1 year

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Thoughts on Tomorrow (mostly on episode 2)

TW: Mentions of depression, bullying & suicide

So I watched a couple of episodes of Tomorrow and I don't think I'll be continuing with the drama. Episodes 1 & 2 left me a bit conflicted, and the next two episodes didn't give hope for the series as a whole.

There's some good, but also some very bad: I really like that both Rowoon's character and the female lead Goo Ryeon are always quick and firm when defending people that belittle and invalidate the suicidal people, reassuring me of the intention of the show. But the cases shown so far are all too quickly and neatly resolved, despite being solved through the wrong methods; even the abusers get what they're due (sort of), getting some of the same sufferings and publicly discredited.

I couldn't stand episode 2. I was just screaming at the screen. In this episode, the suicide attempt is solved with harsh words, then the grim reaper Goo Ryeon lets the person fall off a building to save her at the last second, and then somehow it seems like the suicidal person will now magically be happy. More than unrealistic, the whole thing felt dishonest.

Rowoon's character is right when he says how can Goo Ryeon talk to someone suicidal in the manner that she does. She dares them to jump off, by saying stuff like: "Jump, then. No one will care, because who cares about people like you," and then "Did you even try to overcome your trauma? You should have tried harder" or "It's all because you're weak and a coward", etc. And once she's saved her, Goo Ryeon is all: "oh it's the bullies that are evil? Not you. Just be happy from now on, okay? Don't let anyone treat you badly again." Like??? Yeah, that was never in question here!! Our trauma brain isn't usually rational.

I suppose that's the point of Rowoon's character here. He's the empath of the team. (Rowoon as an actor is always so sympathetic and emotional.) And maybe, maybe this approach could work in a specific case, and I'm not a mental health professional, but it's obvious the way Goo Ryeon routinely handles the cases it's not a good approach to helping suicidal people. Sure, she gets results, but at what cost? More trauma?

This poor girl from episode 2 is now traumatized by a close encounter with a callous pink-haired grim reaper (something which she probably won't be able to explain in therapy if she went). She really needed therapy for the years-long trauma and PTSD (probably anxiety too). She needed her workplace to be more humane. She needed for her boss to be reprimanded if not fired for his unprofessionalism, and maybe for HR to intervene when she said she couldn't do the job due to mental health and she should have been excused. No job, no profit is worth anyone's mental wellbeing. Maybe they could have made some commentary on how non-empathetic the company workplaces and capitalism are, and how negatively it can affect people's underlying mental health issues. And that would have been a less exciting and supernatural story I imagine.

These characters have gone through a supernatural event after the grim reapers save them, and sure that would probably change anyone's life view, but saving people from a suicide attempt is NOT usually the end of the journey; they won't be automatically happy and their problems solved.

For this suicide risk management team of grim reapers to make a true difference, they would need to do stuff like therapy accessibility, make sure they have a support system, make sure they have affordable housing & enough economic stability to push themselves out of their mental health struggles (for which maybe they would need to strike them with some supernatural luck so they get a well-paying job)... but can you imagine how complicated this would be when all of these are the systemic problems we face in the real world?

With the alarming suicide rate in South Korea (and globally), it's commendable that more dramas seem to be attempting to incorporate it into their stories. But oh the paradox of writing stories about mental health: either you do it faithfully, with care, and it becomes a terribly structured story and probably boring too, or you do it for entertainment and just give some terrible potentially problematic representation. Because in real life, mental health is complex and intersectional with many other issues like economic stability, race, gender, class, ethnicity, etc, etc. Saving someone like the guy (homeless I think he was) in episode 1 and then just leave him be will probably solve nothing for them.

Yet I'm not sure if this show is going in a direction like The Good Place did, where, in the end, the system and the structures that have been in place for centuries are what's at fault, not the individual. Here they understood that people grow when you give them support and love, while sometimes being powerless against systems (and mind you, The Good Place is also a hilarious show).

Of course the subject matter is different, so it might be unfair to compare the two. I do hope Tomorrow will feature stories in future episodes about victims whose recovery is not as straightforward, bullies who are not so easily taken down, and maybe even cases that actually... fail and end up in tragedy, because it would make the message stronger and more honest.

Maybe that's the entire point of Rowoon's character, maybe at the end it will be a hopeful and beautifully written show about a sensitive topic, and I did try watching 2 more episodes but I couldn't see it happening.

Also, I understand suicide it's still taboo in a lot of places and a charged topic (it seems even for grim reapers) but everyone calls them weak or sinners. I guess grim reapers are as prejudiced and human as humans, and that's why the suicide risk management team is such a small team. Speaking of, this whole "will dissolve the team if you don't show results" warning plot point does nothing for the tension. For what reason do they need this extra layer of a challenge when they're already struggling to keep afloat and save people? It's just distracting and slows down the already slow pacing of this drama.

I honestly had to fast-forward a lot of parts in episode 2. Maybe that's praise for how much it made me feel for the victim, but it's also a bit of a miss when they're also going for a workplace comedy. Ultimately, I think they tried not to be too heavy, too problematic, too much... but I actually think they should have gone all-in with it. Right now it feels like a supernatural comedy with tonal problems, surface-tackling of complex subjects in a melodramatic manner when I feel it should be the opposite: a serious show with complex cases, messy outcomes & realistic portrayals of long-term prognosis of mental health and suicide, while the main characters try to lighten up and cope with such a job on their daily life with comedy, and while also having personal mysteries to resolve.

I am happy for everyone that is liking this show, I wanted to like it too (I'm having a media slump for me right now where nothing lands) and maybe it will bring some needed attention to the topic of suicide prevention, but I'm honestly not sure what to say, as I probably won't finish it.

Like Tim from the YT channel, Hello Future Me says: writing mental health topics well (especially depression and suicide), it's COMPLICATED. There is no perfect method, and you might have to compromise on some storytelling aspects. Balancing good storytelling when writing about mental health it's very, very hard to do. To be fair, I think the Eastern/Asian storytelling structure is better for this, and also a serialized format like a tv series, a video game, or comic, as opposed to single-installment stuff like a 2 hr movie or standalone book.

If you want a show with a fantasy, afterlife premise with amazing discussions on morals & capitalism watch The Good Place. If you want afterlife & death discussions + buddy comedy watch Goblin: the Lonely and Great God (I mean it's not perfect in the main romantic pair but the all the subjects are treated with sensitivity). Or if you want some ghosts + comedy along with a bunch of good tragedy watch Hotel del Luna.

#mbc tomorrow #tomorrow #kdrama #k drama #review #rant #tw: suicide #2022 #netflix

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thespineoftherighteous · 3 years

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someone had the nerve to call Kevin day a "coward" in 2021 with their whole chest like damn that's embarrassing

#not even controversial just so so painfully wrong #like idk how to tell you this ms but im pretty sure you conpletely missed the point #and i think people like this say as much by comparing neil and kevin in terms of how they deal with the moriyamas #like just because my boy neil has the survival instincts of a clumsy tenth month old doesnt mean kevins fears are out of place #not to mention it really invalidates all the trauma he went through #like idk if youre just so used to neils absolute batshit craziness that healthy fight or flight responses equate to cowardice but....#anyway idek #this probably doesnt make sense but i'm sure someone in the fandom has already written a brilliant piece on proper kevin day respect and-#perhaps some of yall should find it and read it?#not saying you gotta feel any particular way towards the guy i just think 'coward' is a *touch misrepresentative #so ig there are two kinds of aftg fans i dont understand: those who reduce kevin to a coward and those who only see aaron as a homophobe #anyway as you were #kevin day #aftg #all for the game #the foxhole court #tfc #aftg shit

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sevsssnape · 2 years

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ok this is really important, please read!

so there’s this thing going on here that people are starting to excuse tobias snape for the things he did to severus, saying “that’s what the society did back then”, “he was a good guy at heart”, “deep down loved his family”, and i don’t know just how many of you have been abused when you were young, how many of you have been beaten down, kicked, cut, whatever else, by your parents since you were a fucking child, but as someone who actually has been, i’m asking you all to please, stop this.

no fucking thing excuses this, not a thing, not a single thing can excuse that behaviour.

yes it’s what happened and it was fucking animalistic that’s why it doesn’t happen anymore. he loved his family deep inside? he can suck my fucking ass!! he whipped!! his!!! child!!!!!! he whipped a child!!!!!!!!!! he hit his wife!!!!!!

and you people just?? HOW , how can you excuse this???

i don’t know if it’s because you want to convince yourselves that your favourite character received at least some sort of love and affection, or what, but this is sick. this is not only excusing this unacceptable behaviour, but invalidating people’s trauma and the abuse they’ve gone through.

look, right now i’m just too fucking hurt and angry to directly and thoroughly mention the posts and explain, but just don’t.

please don’t.

this isn’t a joke, this isn’t “scolding your child for their bad behaviour”, i don’t know if you went through what i went through, what severus went through (i hope none of you have), i don’t know if you can really understand what it means, the depths of this fuckery, but

THERE IS NOT A THING THAT CAN EXCUSE THAT BASTARD’S BEHAVIOUR!!

please don’t.

#severus snape #tobias snape #Pro Snape #child abuse #omg this fucking hurts #please don't guys

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ao-21 · 2 years

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Fellow solangelo shippers and Will solace lovers, please repeat after me,

- macdonals is not unhealthy

- macdonalds salad is not healthy and infact more bad for you than their burgers

- finishing all the food on one's plate before you leave the table is toxic and creates eating disorders.

- salad is not a meal, it is a side like fries or onion rings, and only eating a simple Greek or green salad with only lettuce, tomato, and cucumbers is not filling and bad for your body.

- chocolate is not unhealthy when eaten in moderate amounts, it is actually very good for you as it reduces the risk of heart disease and cancer, it does not cause acne or weight gain, it boosts one's appetite, it helps release endorphins into the brain which helps as a pain-reliever and helps reduce stress and has a calming effect.

- a balanced diet includes majority carbs, fruits and vegetables, dairy, protein (fish, meat, chicken etc.) , and fats oils and sugars; in EVERY meal- if it does not include all five(5) categories in one meal it is not balanced and therefore unhealthy.

(At the moment I cannot think of anything more, will add when I remember)

I have seen many of these problems in multiple fics I have read, Will is supposed to be the pagan of healthy/balanced lifestyle and making him say and promote toxic diet culture stereotypes and myths that have countless of times been proven incorrect is bad. It is 2021, please goolge what is actually true instead of spreading bs that is very toxic.

You can fact check me google the things I mentioned and see if it is true.

Secondly, another thing I have noticed over the past week is people posting stuff saying -

"Will: I want you to eat three meals a day and have a decent sleep schedule" when talking to nico.

I need you to understand that bodies experience trauma.

Nico has had a very unstable life after Bianca died and he ran away from camp and he was basically homeless and alone, he probably went days without having proper meals everyday since he was 10/11 also because he was experiencing grief and thinking that he wasn't good enough and didn't deserve to live. Then he went through tartarus alone and he was there for days with no food. Then being in the jar for five days without food and water and having to starve for who knows how long.

That trauma to his body that he experiences and went through doesn't just go away over night once he is in a stable environment, it's going to take him years to overcome that trauma to his body and that means he is not going to be able to eat 3 full meals everyday any time soon.

So making Will tell him that he wants Nico to eat 3 meals a day is very toxic and completely downplays and dismisses the trauma he has been through. So please stop.

Thirdly, if you could, I assume all off you have access to Google, look up the best ways to help a loved one with ptsd, complex ptsd, adhd, depression, autism, anxiety, personality disorder, eating disorder, people with different mental disorders and what not to do or say to a person with any of the above mentioned.

Some of you have not done any research on how to properly help someone in Nico's situation and it shows.

If you really love him and care about him you would want him to have the best help and that does not come from your general knowledge.

(If you all want I can do a series post on the do's and don't on how to help someone like nico without further traumatizing them and invalidating their experiences in a healthy manner I can.)

But I won't be able to do anything this week, I'm gonna be very busy at work this coming week but I should be free from following Monday to do the series.

N.B. I am not a therapist or trained professional I am a 19 year old individual who got most of and will get most of my information of intstagram and google, but I will try as best as I can.

This has been my Ted talk thanks for reading. Do better.

#will solace #nico di angelo #william andrew solace #percy jackson #percy jackson and the olympians #percy pjo #trials of apollo #nico di angelo x will solace #solangelo #anti solangelo #diet culture #toxic diet culture #unhealthy myths

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iamanartichoke · 3 years

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I wrote a Thing. It’s extremely long. I’d prefer it not be reblogged; I wrote this for my own catharsis and would prefer it not be circulated, bc of Reasons.

I changed my mind, okay to reblog. <3

Under a cut for (extreme, did I mention?) length.

So I got about 12 minutes of sleep last night, as you do, and around 3am or so I found myself - out of sheer curiosity - going down a meta hole of Ragnarok discourse, trying to figure out where this "satisfying redemption arc" for Loki happened. (I mean, there's a lot of things I would like to figure out, but I started there.) Because I could.

Basically I was looking for meta that went into detail about how Loki was redeemed in a satisfactory way. The ‘satisfactory’ is an important word here bc there is a redemption arc in the film, in that Loki starts off the film as an antagonist (kinda) to Thor and he ends the film as an ally to Thor, standing at Thor's side. In that sense, yes, there's a redemption arc. I didn't find much (and I had no idea how much people just despise Ragnarok "antis" [I really dislike that word] but that's another topic [that I don't particularly want to get into, tbh]) but I did find some. I read what I could find, and I read it open-mindedly, and overall I came away feeling like, okay, there are some valid points being made here and I can kinda see where they're coming from.

But it was a bit (a lot) like -- flat. Idk. The best comparison I can think of is that it’s like if a literature class read, I don't know, The Yellow Wallpaper for an assignment, and some of the students came away from it feeling like it was a creepy story about a woman slowly driving herself insane, and the other students came away from it incensed at the oppression and infantilization of women in the late 19th century -

- and neither side is wrong, but the former is a very surface-level reading and the latter isn't (bc it stems from looking at why she drives herself insane, why she was prescribed 'rest' in the first place, the context of what women could and couldn't do back then, etc; basically, a bit more work has to go into it).

[Note: I am not disparaging the quality of The Yellow Wallpaper. At all. It’s just the first relatively well-known story that popped into my head.]

In this sense, I can see the argument for Loki's redemption arc, but I don't think it's a very good argument. Not invalid, but not great.

I mean, for example, I think the most consistent argument I found variations of re: Loki's redemption is that Ragnarok shows Loki finally taking responsibility for his bad behaviour and misdeeds. This includes recognizing that his actions were fueled from a place of self-hatred and a desire to self-destruct in addition to bringing destruction on others. That he probably feels awkward and regretful of these things and doesn't know how to act around Thor, but he figures it out by the end, and decides that returning to Asgard is the best way to show that he's ready to make amends. His act of bringing the Statesman to Asgard is an apology. He allies himself with Thor and ends up in a better place, both narratively (united with Thor once again) and mentally (having taken responsibility and made amends for his past).

And setting aside that he had already made amends by sacrificing his life in TDW (and also setting aside that the argument is made that Loki redeems himself in IW by sacrificing himself to Thanos but if that's the case, wouldn't that imply that he hadn't achieved redemption in Ragnarok or else there would be no need to achieve it again in IW? Or, if you think he did achieve redemption in Ragnarok, then what the fuck did he give his life in IW for? What was his motivation there, and why did the narrative not make it clearer? I digress.)

- setting aside those two factors, I think this is a very fair argument. Loki is fueled by self-hatred, and he does want to self-destruct, and he does want to inflict that pain on others as well (particularly Thor). No lies detected here.

However, I also need to know where that self-hatred and desire for destruction (toward himself and others) comes from and for that, we need to go back to Thor 1.

Thor 1.

Loki starts Thor 1 out as "a clenched fist with hair," to borrow a quote from the Haunting of Hill House (that I tucked away in my mental box of Lovely Things bc it says so much so very simply). He's very used to bottling everything up, pushing it down; he slinks around behind the scenes, pulling the strings to this plot or that. He's "always been one for mischief," but the narrative implies that the coronation incident is the first time Loki's done anything truly terrible. And it all immediately pretty much goes to shit, so Loki spends the rest of the movie frantically juggling all these moving pieces while trying to seem as if he's got it all under control, every step of the way. That's how I view his actions.

But I always come back to that quote where Kenneth Branaugh tells Tom, of the scene in the vault, "This is where the thin steel rod that's been holding your mind together snaps." In other words this is where Loki discovering he's Jotun is just one thing too many. He can't take it. But though the rod snaps, his descent isn't a nosedive. It's a tumble. As the story progresses, the clenched fist starts to loosen, the muscles are flexed in unfamiliar ways (that feel kinda good, after being stiff for so long), and it culminates with the hand opening completely and shaking itself out. All of that repression, that self-hatred, that rage and jealousy just explodes so that, by the time the bifrost scene happens, Loki's already hit bottom. It's not just about proving his worthiness to Odin. He wants to hurt Thor, too; he, essentially, throws a tantrum. (That's right, I said tantrum.)

(Note: The word 'tantrum’ has negative connotations bc we normally equate it with a toddler stamping their feet and screaming in the aisle when their parent won't buy them the toy they want. But in itself, the word tantrum isn't infantalizing. It's an "emotional outburst, an uncontrolled explosion of anger and frustration" [paraphrasing from dictionary.com]. That's exactly what happens here [and why Tom called Loki's actions a massive tantrum, but people took that to mean Tom agreed it was childish whereas I doubt Tom meant it that way]).

He's been pushed past his limit, and he does bad things. He does really shitty things. He hurts Thor, he hurts his family. I'm pretty sure he knows this all along so this isn't, like, some revelation further down the line that "hey, those things I did were probably kinda bad." He got the memo already.

Ragnarok

Fast forward to Ragnarok, and we're introduced to a version of Loki who's had 4ish years to sit with everything that's happened. To sit with it and not do much else. The rawness of it has faded, and now it seems as though it's just become a thing, like when you move through life aware of your childhood traumas and have more or less just accepted them (and you probably share a lot of really funny depression memes on Facebook, which is kinda the equivalent of Loki's play, but that's probably just me).

Loki has, more or less, chilled out. He seems more bored than anything else; he's been masquerading as Odin for longer than he ever planned or intended to, so he's more or less ended up hanging out, letting Asgard mind its own business, and entertaining himself with silly plays. This is the version that starts out the movie as an antagonist to Thor - a version that is, arguably, in a much different place [and is a much milder threat] than the version who originally did those Bad Things.

And of course Thor is still mad at him, and of course they're going to butt heads, because that's what they do (and Thor's grievances are genuine, I’ll add, bc it's not really his fault he assumed Loki faked his death, nor can he be blamed for being pissed about Odin).

One argument framed this version of Loki as being a person who is facing the awkwardness of coming out of a dark place, which is fair. If we're going to frame his actions in Thor 1 as a tantrum, then Ragnarok would be the part where the toddler has been taken home, possibly has had some lunch and a juice box, and is now watching cartoons. They're over the tantrum, and would probably feel pretty silly about it if they weren't, yknow, toddlers. They probably can't remember why they even wanted that toy so badly. If they're a little older and self-aware, they might even be embarrassed for having melted down.

Like the word tantrum, this feeling isn't a thing limited to toddlers. I know I've had a few epic meltdowns as a grown ass adult, and I know I always feel deeply embarrassed afterwards - like, want to crawl into a hole and die. I've said things I can't take back. Adolescents and teenagers throw tantrums, mentally ill people throw tantrums, adults throw tantrums (I mean, my god, look at all the videos of Karens having screaming meltdowns - screaming! - over having to wear masks in order to shop at stores). Humans throw tantrums. And usually, after the feelings have been let out and the tantrum has passed, humans feel pretty regretful and awkward and embarrassed about whatever they did and said in the midst of their meltdown.

I get all of that and agree it's valid and that Loki probably feels it. By the time Ragnarok happens, Loki's had some time to reflect and think hmm, yeah, probably could've handled that one a lot better. The argument further goes that in order to navigate this awkward period, Loki must come to terms with what he's done, acknowledge that some things can't be unsaid or undone, and begin to make amends. Supposedly, some people feel that Loki becomes a better person because he does "own" everything he did wrong and, even though he feels like a jackass (paraphrasing), he sets that aside to become a become a better person by choosing to help Thor and Asgard at the end.

Thus, the overall arc goes like this. Loki, Thor's jealous little brother,

throws a tantrum of epic proportions bc Reasons

continues to act badly and make things even worse (Avengers)

has to face consequences for his actions (prison sentence)

ends up with a stretch of time in which he's free to contemplate and chill out

feels embarrassed and awkward about how he's behaved

sees an opportunity to make up for it and decides to take it

helps Thor, saves the day, and ends the film a better person.

Redemption achieved.

None of this is wrong. The film supports it. It's a fair interpretation. But it leaves. out. so. much.

To circle all the way back around Loki being "a clenched fist with hair," and his actions stemming from his self-hatred, you have to ask - how did he get that way? He didn't end up with all this self-hatred on accident. Generally, one isn't born despising themselves, it's a learned behavior. (I realize chemical imbalances are a thing, obviously, as I have Mental Shit myself, but for argument's sake I'm assuming that's not the case with Loki [at this point in time]).

Where did Loki learn it? From his family, from his surroundings, from his culture. We see examples of these microaggressions in the first, like, twenty minutes of the movie - a guard openly laughs at Loki's magic after Thor makes a joke about it (the tone of the conversation implies that Thor "jokes" like this often) and though Loki does the snake thing, the guard faces no real consequences. Thor doesn't acknowledge that anything went amiss. Not much later, on their way to Jotunheim, Loki's barely gotten two words out to Heimdall before Thor cuts him off, steps in front of him, and takes charge. Loki doesn't look annoyed at this; he looks resigned.

Then, for absolutely no reason at all, Volstagg decides to make a jab at Loki ("silver tongue turned to lead?") just because he can. The ease with which he makes this comment and the way that no one else blinks an eye at it implies that this isn't out of the norm. And Loki doesn't react, not really. In the deleted version, he delivers a particularly nasty comeback but he delivers it under his breath, without intending Volstagg to hear it. In the final version, he simply says nothing, though his expression can be read as hurt or stung. Either way, the audience sees an example of Loki being walked all over by Thor and his friends and bottling up his reactions instead of standing up for himself.

Microaggressions matter. They are mentally and emotionally damaging. They hurt. The implication that this is not unusual treatment for Loki means that Loki's probably gone through this for most of his life. It's like the equivalent of being, I don't know, twenty two and you're the friend who has to walk behind the others when the sidewalk isn't wide enough, and it's been that way since the first day of kindergarten. At this point, you're used to it, but that doesn't make it hurt any less when the jabs come seemingly out of nowhere, for no reason other than to make you feel bad.

(I personally identify a lot with this bc I experienced passive bullying in social settings for years. I was the 'doesn't fit on the sidewalk' friend; I hung around with people who'd pretend to be my friend and would be more or less nice to my face, but would laugh at me and make fun of me behind my back for whatever reasons. And often there'd be the random jabs at me, things that would come out of nowhere to smack me in the face, followed by the fake laugh and “just kidding!" so that I couldn't even get upset without being made to feel like I was overreacting and couldn't take a joke. I'd deal with this socially, particularly in middle school when girls are their most vicious, and then I'd go home and, because I was the only girl with a lot of brothers and because boys are mean and because I am who I am, the dynamic was that my brothers would just endlessly roast me to my face and sometimes it was a "just kidding!" thing, where I was the only one not laughing. But that’s beside the point; my point is that microaggressions, passive bullying, and consistent invalidation are harmful and that shit stays with you into adulthood.)

So, yes, Loki needs to be held responsible for his misdeeds, and it's valid to say that he recognizes those misdeeds and wants to make amends. I have never disagreed with that. But the problem with this interpretation is that it lets every single other character who contributed to Loki's self-hatred and mental breakdown (let's just call a spade a spade here, that's what it was; he was broken psychologically) get off scot-free.

First of all,

Odin is not held accountable for instilling in the princes a mentality of Asgard first, everyone is beneath us but Jotuns are benath us the most, they are literal monsters. He is not held accountable for pitting his sons against one another (even if it was unintentional, he still did it) with "you were both born to be kings but only one of you can rule" being the general tone of their upbringing. He's not held accountable for his favoritism toward Thor.

Frigga is not held accountable for deferring to Odin both in supporting the above things and in keeping the truth of Loki's origins a secret while doing nothing to discourage the "monsters" narrative.

Thor is not held accountable for his own tendency of taking Loki for granted (he assumes Loki will come to Jotunheim, he oversteps Loki constantly, “know your place,” etc.. He grants his implicit permission for Loki to be treated as the sidewalk friend in their “group,” a group which is loyal to and takes their cues from Thor as Thor continues to do nothing in his brother's defense).

[Note: Wanting Thor to be held accountable for things he's done wrong isn't vilifying him. Acknowledging that Thor benefited from Odin's favoritism and his own place as Crown Prince doesn't negate Thor also being raised in an abusive environment. I don't think anyone's saying that or, if they have, it's not something I agree with.]

Furthermore,

Odin is not held accountable for his cruelty in disowning Loki (”your birthright was to die” is never going to be forgotten, speaking of people saying things that can't be unsaid or taken back) and in sentencing Loki to a severe prison sentence (life! only bc Frigga wouldn't let him execute Loki) for crimes that are no worse than what Odin himself has committed (around which the entire plot of Ragnarok revolves! Colonialism (and subjugation) is wrong is, like, a major theme [that people rush to praise, even] here).

Thor is also never held accountable for not trying harder to understand what made Loki snap (fair enough, he didn't have a ton of time after returning from Earth, but certainly he had lots of time to sit around reflecting while Loki was being tortured by Thanos for a year). He knows Loki is "not himself" and "beyond reason" and accepts it at face value; he questions it once and then lets it go. He's fine with assuming Loki's just lost his mind, and isn't that a shame. (I realize I'm simplifying Thor's emotions but my point is that Thor could've tried harder to figure out that Loki was being influenced and/or not acting completely autonomously.)

Thor is also never held accountable for - if not facing consequences for his own slaughter of Jotuns - then at least addressing why Loki can't kill an entire race even though Thor tried to do that, like, two days ago. (Granted, it’s difficult to understand how Thor got from Point A ("let's finish them together, Father!") to Point B (this is wrong!), but that failing belongs to Thor 1 (which is not, by the way, a perfect movie).

The interpretation that Loki is fully redeemed because he took responsibility for his actions, returned to Asgard, and allied himself with Thor to save their people is all well and good - but, why is Loki the only one here who has to take responsibility for their actions?

What about all the loose threads in his story?

For example, how did he get from:

Point A (believing himself a literal monster, having a complete mental breakdown, getting tortured and further traumatized after that, etc)

Point B (Hey, yknow what would be fun? I'm going to write and direct a play about how I heroically died to save Thor and Jane, and I'll go ahead and have Odin say he accepts me and has always loved me. I'm going to do these things because Odin never said this in real life and instead of acknowledging my sacrifice, Thor left my body in the dirt, so someone has to validate what I've done right and that someone might as well be me. And hey, while I'm at it, I'm going to control the narrative on revealing myself as Jotun to Asgard, instead of living in fear of it being found out, and I'm going to do it in a way that they have to sympathize with me and revere me in death, bc they never bothered to do so when I was alive. And Matt Damon should play me, also.)

Point C (Yeah, I guess I feel kinda awkward about that whole tantrum thing, also I should help Thor and support him being king.)

The answers to these questions are handwaved and the audience takes that to mean they don't matter. Furthermore, framing Loki's redemption around an act of service (more or less) to Thor makes Loki's redemption about Thor. Does Loki make this decision for the sake of Thor and of Asgard, or does he make it for himself? It's not super clear to me, and I think arguments can be made for both. Which, again, is fine, but - whatever.

If we're going to collectively agree, as a fandom, that Loki is complex, that he's morally gray, that he's worthy of redemption and therefore arguably a good person who's done bad things, then why is it asking too much to have it acknowledged that Thor (also a good person who's done bad things) played a part in Loki's downfall and has shit to apologize for, too? Bc one can only assume the reason is that you're taking a very gray concept and making it black and white by saying Loki has to apologize and make amends because he is the villain, and Thor doesn't because he is the hero (and it's his movie). And it's lazy.

This is where the crux of the issue lands. There's more than one valid interpretation, yes. And no two people (or groups of people, or whatever) are going to consume and therefore interpret or analyze the source material in the same way. I think I saw a post recently about how studies have been done on this, in fact. But, there is a lot going on under the surface that tends to get overlooked when exploring Loki's redemption arc in Ragnarok, as far as I can see, and that’s why I don’t consider it satisfactory.

[I did read similar arguments regarding other issues that are often debated ('debated'), like Loki's magic and/or being underpowered, whether or not Loki's betrayal of Thor was the natural outcome of the situation on Sakaar or not, whether Thor actually gets closure with Odin [if he does, how does he reconcile the father he's idolized with the imperialistic conqueror he's discovered? Why doesn't he hold Odin responsible for covering up Hela's existence and the threat of her return, especially as he knew he was nearing the end of his life? Is Thor's "I'm not as strong as you" meant to imply that he acknowledges those shortcomings of Odin's and that he's okay with them, or that he's just overlooking them, or is he not okay with them but didn't have the chance to get into it bc he was in the middle of battle? T'Challa confronted his father on his wrongdoings in Black Panther; could Thor not have had at least one line that was confrontational enough to establish where he stands as opposed to this gray middle? Can someone explain to me how any of this equates to Thor gaining closure? Please?) but obviously I'm not going to go into all of them (well, I tried not to), bc this mammoth post has gone on long enough (I may not even post this tbh)]

- but my overall point to this entire thing is that when I say I'm critical of Ragnarok bc it's flawed, that Loki's arc was neither complete nor satisfactory, that many things went unaddressed and, due to all of these things, I do not think Ragnarok is a very good movie nor a very cohesive movie, this is where I'm coming from. I have not seen anything to change my mind to the contrary.

But I am not saying that anyone satisfied with it is wrong, or shouldn't have the interpretation that they do. I'm not vilifying Thor in order to lift Loki up, just acknowledging that Thor is arguably just as flawed as Loki without the stigma of being Designated Villain. I think a lot of these arguments get overlooked or dismissed, and that's fine, but it doesn't make the people who do engage with them hateful, or bitter, or trying to excuse Loki's crimes, or feeling like redemption means that Loki's crimes should be erased rather than reconciled.

And sure, yes, perhaps we are expecting too much and exploring all of these themes (or wanting them explored) means that somehow we think it should be Loki's movie (we don't). Loki is a supporting character, but he's still a character. And the movie itself doesn't have to delve into all these things - no one's saying that. (At least, I'm not.) We just want acknowledgement, from the narrative, that this stuff was an Issue.

This could have been accomplished with -

Some dialogue closer to the novelization (and original script), like Thor and Loki both acknowledging the harm they've done one another and their kingdom due to their Feels.

A single line of Thor confronting Odin, or even asking "Why?"

A narrative acknowledgement that Odin did both Thor and Loki dirty (”I love you, my sons” isn't an apology, because it doesn't acknowledge either that there's been wrong-doing or express regret for having done the wrong in the first place).

A little bit more nuance in the way Loki treats his own past (ie, instead of flippantly telling the story of his suicide attempt, maybe - if it must be flippant - talk about getting blasted in the face with Hawkeye's arrow or sailing through to Svartalfheim [And in that moment, I sang ta-daaaa!]) or whatever.

I recognize that wanting full, in-depth exploration on all of these issues regarding a supporting character is probably too much to ask or expect - but, I also feel like, if you're going to be professionally writing a narrative (or rewriting/improvising, as it were), it's not too much to ask that a little more care be taken in regards to all of the layers that have contributed to said supporting character's downfall and subsequent redemption arc. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to want.

And maybe if there had been more nuance and continuity in how these things were portrayed on screen (ie, if TW had actually done as good a job as his stans think he did), the fandom wouldn't have divided and conquered itself over which "version" of the same character is more valid and whether or not the film did its best to close out a trilogy (not start a new one), to the point where everyone in this fandom space makes navigating it feel like walking through a minefield.

But, I mean

(Again, please don’t reblog if possible.)

Edit: Okay to reblog. <3

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