#nynaeve meta

[halcyon-autumn]

I didn’t really get how Liandrin was trying to recruit Nynaeve for the Black Ajah (if being a shitty teacher turned people into Darkfriends, the White Tower would be screwed) until I saw how effectively Ryma teaches Nynaeve. Ryma is patient and uncritical, and she connects with Nynaeve over something that she knows matters to her. She uses examples that she knows Nynaeve is familiar with, and she gets Nynaeve to channel pretty quickly (the channeling is uncontrolled but at least Nynaeve can embrace the source). Liandrin, meanwhile, just tried to piss Nynaeve off and praised her when she channeled in rage. Given how effective Ryma’s method was, I can only assume that Liandrin’s terrible approach was meant to make Nynaeve’s control issues and mental block WORSE.

If Nynaeve is angrier and less in control, if she NEEDS anger to channel - she’s more likely to end up isolated. And since the other teachers don’t subscribe to the “make her furious to get her to attack me with the Power” school of teaching, they won’t be able to get her to channel - ONLY Liandrin will. Nynaeve would be lonely and reliant on Liandrin, and even more bitter with the White Tower that keeps failing her - which would make it easier for her to eventually be recruited to the black ajah (or at least Liandrin thinks this is what would happen; Nynaeve would never).

Anyway Sheriam is bad at her job and never should have let Liandrin near a Novice or Accepted.

#you’re on thin ice Sheriam #Silviana as mistress of novices and Silviana ONLY #wot on prime #wheel of time #wot on prime spoilers #how long do we tag spoilers after the episode is out? #nynaeve al'meara #wot meta #Rachelle chats #liandrin guirale

[reformedmoth]

I'm not sure I can explain this well but I did not think Egwene was "broken" by Renna. Rather she had to negotiate some really complicated questions in a state of incredible duress and subjection. The foremost question: what is a weapon? This very question has troubled me since the introduction of the Aes Sedai and their oaths back in season 1.

I always felt a degree of artifice in the oaths, as for the Aes Sedai the question of weapons, which is related to that of violence, is fluid and mutable. This episode highlights this especially well by asking us to consider why the water pitcher might be a weapon. I was given the impression, by how eagerly Egwene drank from the pitcher in the end, that she wasn't able to touch the pitcher even in the absence of Renna. Nor was she able to drink from it when Renna asked her to pour a glass of water for herself either. Which makes the idea that it's all a matter of intent/belief tricky, because why should the pitcher still be a weapon when Egwene is alone and dying of thirst?

The person whom the pitcher is most a weapon against is Egwene herself. One thought I had is no matter what we might say the pitcher is always a weapon, as is the One Power. The potential for violence cannot be stripped from the thing itself. One cannot simply believe it away. In the same way Egwene is human even if Renna insists she is not.

Therefore, when Egwene touches the jug she violates one of Renna's laws. She already violates them by simply existing, btw laws remain the GOAT of all weapons. Even in compliance there can be resistance. This is an important thing to show, because I often see resistance portrayed as one thing only. The way it's often represented almost casts a moral judgement on those who simply do what needs must to survive, those folks are seldom seen as heroes. The fact this scene was interspersed with Ryma and Basan's more conventional resistance adds weight to this idea. Egwene may not fully know it but in touching that jug she was not defeated, in fact it was one of her most magnificent moments so far.

#this is likely very incoherent #rough thoughts now that i have stopped crying #i think it's as incredible a moment as when nynaeve left the arches #the parallels between the accepted test and this kennel bullshit are breathtaking btw #wot show #wot show spoilers #wot meta #egwene al’vere #egwene #ryma #basan #wot s02e06 #wot show meta

[toastandjamie]

You know, sometimes I think about how different characters would respond to losing their significant other. Like them dying of something other than old age. Mostly because like, I think RJ really made sure we knew that most of these characters would objectively get Worse if they lost their partner. Like Rand and Perrin who both quite literally take the nuclear option the moment they think something just potentially happened to their wives. Some of them I think would react with extreme self destruction, like they won’t hurt any else but they’ll participate in self destructive tendencies and just sorta emotionally implode on themselves, I think Mat, Lan and Min fall into this category, like they aren’t necessarily going to burn the whole world down but they’re definitely going to ruin their own life. Then there’s the characters that will just freeze everything out, like no emotions, just doing their job; this is Egwene, Nynaeve, Elayne, Tuon and Avienda. Like they’re hurting but they’re going to ignore their own pain in favor of focusing on their duty.

Like, they’d all just become their worst selves and I’m obsessed with that

#wheel of time #mat cauthon #wheel of time spoilers #minor wot book spoilers #rand al'thor #tuon athaem kore paendrag #perrin aybara #egwene al'vere #elayne trakand #aviendha #nynaeve al'meara #min farshaw #faile bashere #lan mandragoran #wot meta #wot rambles

[mswyrr]

why didn't Lan want to transfer the bond to Nynaeve in s2?

I've read some comments questioning his love for Nynaeve due to how quickly he rejects the idea and I really disagree. I think he rejects it precisely because he loves her. Because he is the deeply loving man Nynaeve is falling in love with and a person of honor who is worthy of her.

1) He's going through a trauma along with Moiraine (though he wasn't the one Ishamael assaulted, he is deeply linked to M, traumatized by the loss of the connection that has been his family and the purpose of his life for 20 years, and she is behaving horribly toward him) and he feels like a failure. The person he trusts most in life literally just told him he's a failure. He believes Nynaeve deserves so much better than to take on a failed Warder as a commitment for life. He feels like damaged goods. He knows she WOULD take him on, because she has a compassionate heart and feels for him. But he wants better than that for her.

He's in his 40s and she's 26 - he should have scruples about not imposing on her good heart and taking advantage. (I'm not against age gap romance, but if the older partner is a decent person they will have real scruples to consider. Those valid scruples are all mixed up in his head with the trauma and bad self-image stuff he's going through IMO.) From his pov, he's been told she will soon be a powerful Aes Sedai. With that status she will have her pick of the very best, young Warders - she has her whole life ahead of her, why should she be saddled with an old failure?

Why should she bond to Lan and share in his shattered heart and grief and be weighed down by that and then, in a few decades, Lan won't be able to physically protect her like a Warder her own age or younger would? When he will die much sooner? She'd have to then experience grieving him when she could be building a lifelong bond with a younger, fresh Warder without all his baggage.

I don't agree with his pov, but I think this likely played into his thinking and why he rejects the idea immediately.

2) It's sadly a common thing that men are more likely to leave women partners who become terminally or chronically ill. Put simply: Lan isn't a piece of shit like that. He's better than that. He doesn't treat women like they're interchangeable parts - if one breaks, just swap her out for another and forget about her. He means his platonic commitment so much - which speaks to the kind of man he is and how much he will mean the romantic commitment he makes to Nynaeve. He's a man of quality and honor. His commitments are actually worth something.

The kind of man who would leave his 20 year long platonic partner to just suffer and die while he walks off wouldn't be worthy of Nynaeve, whose own heart is so loving and true. (edit: Distancing himself for his own emotional safety and finding other ways to get Moiraine support would be different - if he'd, say, told Siuan about what was going on but chosen not to return to M himself and/or reopen the bond - choosing forgiveness is going above and beyond, but not just leaving someone and swapping them out immediately is a decency thing)

3) Narratively, IMO it's for the same reason Siuan and Moiraine are in conflict rather than together right now - the romantic resolutions are going to be very grand and fireworks (Nynaeve was only starting to fall in love with Lan when she blazed like a sun to save his life - this show is very romantic! Unlike a lot of US shows rn it respects romantic love) and they're being saved for later. In both romances, they're currently separated due to how much they love each other, not how little.

BOOK SPOILERS BELOW

4) We know they get a canon happily ever after!! We know she will hold his bond one day - and presumably as a consensual act of joy and commitment. Doing it now, in this way, would taint it and hurt both of them. It has to be right - the timing and where they're both at. It has to be freely chosen.

#lanaeve #lan x nynaeve #wot meta #my meta #the wheel of time #wheel of time #lan mandragoran #nynaeve al'meara

[onaperduamedee]

Nynaeve might be the character that fascinates me the most so far, even if she's not quite the one I enjoy the most reading - Siuan! Siuan! Siuan!

Nynaeve is such a realistic blend of childishness and maturity. To put it simply, she can go from acting Egwene's age (and Egwene is so young - it's heartbreaking to realise what she went through so young), even younger, in the most infuriating way and the next paragraph she'll be the kind of loving and grounding older friend who could ease the heartaches of early adulthood.

I think her recklessness and refusal to even acknowledge her shortcomings sting all the more that it feels so personal. It's that very specific age between 25 and 30 where I remember feeling isolated and independent, and how that mixture nurtured the stupidest decisions, the most destructive impulses.

Without a doubt, Nynaeve is grown, arguably the most grown among the young heroes, save perhaps Min, and doesn't need to prove it like Egwene does, yet hasn't quite aged either into the stage where she accepts who she is, that she can be wrong about certain things, including who she is, and it is okay to recognise that and change in response.

At times, it feels like Robert Jordan went back in time and called my 26-year old self both a complete imbecile and someone quite wonderful in the becoming, and he would be quite right to do so.

#The wheel of time #Wot #Wheel of time #nynaeve al'meara #No spoilers #Nothing specific these are just leftovers from my notes on book III that I still need to edit and publish #I wonder how I would have received her character had I read the book at 26 #I am very curious to see how her character will evolve #All of the EF5 have an interesting arc ngl #But Nynaeve's the one for whom it hits a little too close to home #It makes some of her parts a little difficult to go through #You know like you read old notebook entries from your teenage years and go ah! I was obviously doing so well #Same software different face #At my age though Moiraine and Siuan are feasting on my brain like possums on fruits #Remblai #Wot meta #Sort of

[sadhorsegirl]

been left to my own devices for too long and now i can't stop thinking about what i think worked in season 1 and what i want to happen in season 2.....

although i didn't like everything in the first season, i think that almost makes it more interesting. the show and the books are a dish best served together, where one falls short i often find the other one picks up the slack, highlighting and complimenting each other really well.

imo wot on prime is a really strong advocate for adaptations being willing to make big changes to the source material in order to either a) make the fans reconsider the work by making them see it in a new way b) changing things so long as u stay true the "spirit" of the original (hard to pin down and not everyone will agree, but im gay and moiraine ruled so they did it lol)

context established, i think one of the things ive found most disappointing in the books is how moiraine's family reveal is handled. rj kind of tees up the idea, u see mat and some of the others kind of figure she has to be highborn somehow, but he doesn't really resolve any of this just suddenly everyone knows she's a damodred despite it being a massive deal in terms of um. house damodred's role in the entire narrative history of the world up until that point

i literally couldn't stop giggling bc i assumed nynaeve specifically was going to like. capital m MURDER her murder her lmao. bc it felt like by lying by omission abt her own origin it was just one more way moiraine lied (aes sedai voice "mislead" moiraine voice "gaslight") to the two rivers kids in order to lead them into danger without potentially necessary information. maybe it was a less obviously dangerous manipulation, but to me it def reads as a straw that could very much break a braid pulling camels back

and it also feels like such a missed opportunity not to really tie in elayne to the whole thing? moiraine and her are literally related, even if their actual relationship is not super close (almost MORE interesting), and (not to get too off on my Grand Moiraine Parallel Theory) she and moiraine have a lot of Grand Parallels lol. at most obvious and most unaddressed, i think it would be smart to tackle the whole "we both have half brothers we have a touchy relationship with" thing but also i think it's really interesting to think about how they are both characters who kind of push thru others to make what they want happen but elayne has managed to wrap the quality up in some level of (obviously imperious) charm while moiraine is just. iconically off-putting lmao

tldr i hope the show is wayyyyyy more confrontational about it!!! i want yelling i want devastating speeches!!!

#wot book spoilers #for real this time i think lmao #wheel of time #moiraine damodred #nynaeve al'meara #elayne trakand #wot on prime #feels like i might want to start a meta tag wih how much im enjoying shooting my mouth off lmao #wot meta #feels kind of like i am channelling rj himself when i type these things up lollll #uninterrupted babble with like. three interesting things buried underneath a mountain of text hehehe #moiraine is my baby my baby my baby!!!!

[veliseraptor]

kinda random but what are your thoughts on Mat Cauthon as a character

speaking of asks that have been sitting in my inbox for way longer than is reasonable (January 24th, helpful time stamps tell me)

Mat's an absolutely fascinating character and I feel like while I've always enjoyed him in the reading experience, up until my more recent rereads I wouldn't have necessarily called him a fave - and I would still say he's in a different category from my truest Wheel of Time blorbo (Rand al'Thor) he is definitely in a "I am turning you in my head like a rotisserie chicken" category.

I was always a Mat/Tuon fan (of their relationship) from my first read, but I think that was very specifically about their dynamic more than being about either of them as individuals; I've come to appreciate them both more as characters over time.

I think it was on my most recent reread (which lasted from 2020-2023, with a big gap between Knife of Dreams and The Gathering Storm) that I really came to appreciate just how much Mat is an unreliable narrator, specifically about himself. And one of the things I find interesting about his specific type of unreliable narration is the way that...okay, I feel like there's an idea sometimes that equates unreliable narrators with liars, and can try to make unreliable narrator status a sort of moral indicator, but Mat's unreliable narration is very persistently in the direction of "this man is so determinedly clueless to his own self in a way that is directly contradictory to his behavior and psychology." There are two characters in Wheel of Time competing for least self awareness (Mat and Nynaeve) and I actually think Mat might be winning.

It's not even that he thinks poorly of himself, exactly - Mat doesn't spend a lot of time angsting about being selfish etc. - but he does have this image of himself as a person who is very much not a bloody hero that he is constantly actively contradicting without seeming to really notice it. And he just keeps doing it, forever. Love that for him.

He's just...I think I'm delighted particularly by the way he looks like one character at first blush - a particular type, or even a particular archetype - and then turns out to spend a lot of the series actively disproving that impression while continuing to more or less buy it about himself. What a guy.

I mean, I also just yesterday finally read @highladyluck's excellent meta on Tuon and Mat and their mutual character development via each other so I'm still thinking about that, too.

#conversating #anonymous #that post making me pine for the outriggers again #wheel of time #wot book spoilers #this feels. barely coherent but o well

[ravencromwell]

Finally decided to indulge in the Siuan/Moiraine meta I've been wanting to write for ages now, musing on the differences in psychology ensuing from their significantly different arcs within the book and show and why Siuan's actions at season 2's apex are entirely in psychological sync with her show portrayal, even if they swerve wildly from the books.

Let's start with some Siuan back-story context. In the books, Tear was undeniably an unfriendly city for those with the One Power. But that translated, in practical terms, to Aes Sedai keeping their stays there brief, and girls who could touch The Source being quickly bustled off to the Tower. There were no Aes Sedai advisers, as in other kingdoms etc., but neither was there the virulent hostility of the show.

Siuan left Tear quickly in the books—the first day she was discovered to have the Power, but only because a sister was traveling through and didn't wish to delay returning to The Tower for such pesky things as sentimental goodbyes. Was that harsh? Absolutely. But the world of the books is exceedingly harsh in some respects, giving girls little to no choice about becoming Sisters, should they be discovered harboring abilities. (Much of Nynaeve's back-story involved hiding her powers precisely because she didn't fancy being ripped from The Two Rivers.)

Siuan faces a much different harshness in the show. The show doesn't do a great job explaining this, but The Dragon's Fang, which is etched onto Siuan's door before her house is unceremoniously torched, is a sign of immense contempt for Dark Friends. Within show Tear, a wary mistrust of Aes Sedai has curdled into something much more dangerous. All use of The Power is suspect, because if men's half was tainted, there's nothing to say women won't go suddenly mad, too.

It's worth remembering as well here that book Siuan was roughly fifteen when she went to The Tower. Now, I'm totally blind, and audio description doesn't give me an age for tiny show-Siuan, but if she's anywhere near puberty, I'll eat my metaphorical hat. And instead of being shepherded to The Tower, she had to flee for her life.

In her family's only means of support, I might ad. Book Siuan was by no means well-to-do, but she was firmly in the middling ranks of the working poor. Show Siuan's family are on the fucking destitution brink y'all. And she took her father's livelihood. Dying destitute ain’t fuckin pretty.

Siuan is not a stupid kid, and she clearly adores the shit out of her papa. The first thing that little girl did the millisecond she got any privileges? Wrote to her papa.

And more than likely, Berden never wrote back. It wouldn't take her long to figure out what'd happened. Moiraine is at great pains to tell Alana Jenny was not "her" support dog, and we laugh it off as oh, look at Moiraine being all adorably prim. Which in one sense, it totally is. But I'd almost guarantee you there's a deeper layer there: it wasn't "hers"; it was "theirs" because once Siuan found out her beloved papa was dead, they both needed something to cuddle.

This may seem like somewhat of a digression, but I'm maundering on because in the books yes, Dark Friends are evil. But they're evil because they caused a terrible cataclysm many thousands of years ago that killed lots of people, and they wanna do it again. There's no personal skin in the game for our beloved ladies, except they get thrust into the job through a convergence of some very complicated circumstances—I'd recommend any show-only watchers read "New Spring" because while I love almost all the changes the show has made ferociously, the way Siuan and Moiraine undertake the search is vastly more plausible as presented by Jordan there.

For Siuan in the show, by contrast, Dark Friend has _very personal ramifications. Dark Friends caused the corrosive mistrust that got her papa _killed! And Moiraine, better than _anyone, knows how that broke her.

And she _knows full well she could be deposed simply for having a relationship with Moiraine. The sensible thing to keep all the awful people from committing terrible crimes that will reverberate down the centuries to impact a little girl just as she was impacted would be to keep both their noses clean. And yet, she loves Moiraine so much that she'll take that risk to maintain not only an alliance about Rand, but a romantic relationship which could, realistically, be discovered much more easily.

And now, Moiraine, the woman who parroted back her beloved father's words of farewell about how Siuan was as clever as a pike and strong as the tides seemingly willfully lied; seemingly became a _Dark _Friend. Even her admonition that Lanfear is "too strong" must bring up so many awful questions: just how long have they been working together for her to know that? Because from Siuan's perspective, what it looks like is Lanfear coming in, guns blazing, to save her accomplice, Moiraine.

When Siuan says that there are rules and they have to abide by them, it's reflecting profoundly deep fears—not only about what Rand could do, but the kind of hatred toward those with The Power it could foster. For twenty years, she's put those fears aside. And now it appears that her going against Tower Law has lost her Moiraine to the Forsaken, and made terrible outcomes nigh on inevitable. And people are really confused about why she looks beaten?

Hell, from her perspective, forget Lanfear's entrance. The very fact Moiraine seemingly lied to her and is now talking about love must seem such a cruel mockery: laughing at Siuan's weakness; just as, perhaps, she was laughing at her with that parting comment in The Tower: an Amyrlin Seat still so swayed by what her papa told her so many years ago. (Yeah, we know it was as close as she could come to an I love you, but how the hell is Siuan supposed to know that, given everything?) This was not willful emotional abuse on someone she knew to be acting in good faith, but a reaction to the person she loved enough to risk the fucking Amyrlin Seat for becoming a monster!

Do I wish they'd picked _any other direction for their relationship? Yes, yes I damn well do. There was plenty to play with for angst factor by having the coup go down as it does in the books: Moiraine not being there to save her when all Siuan wanted was more time together, for one thing. Moiraine needlessly obfuscating in front of Siuan and  the other Sisters in S1, when Leandrin already knew! about the Two Rivers folk. Thinking she was being canny, when all she did was get herself pointlessly exiled so she couldn't protect Siuan? Quite enough of an angst sandwich, thanks ever so, without this new development. But! if they were going to include this, Siuan reacted precisely as I would expect her to, given the context I've outlined above, not in some madly ooc fashion worthy of the tags descending into emotional abuse discourse.

#Siuan Sanche #Moiraine Damodred #I kept hoping this Siuan is terribly abusive discourse would die down but I keep seeing it crop up and it's driving me utterly batshit #Wheel of Time #siuanraine #Moiraine x Siuan #Siuan x Moiraine #fishwives #(posting all this with the obvious caveat that if Rafe uses this to pull some massive bullshit whereby he brought out the queerness some #of us could see in fucking New Spring. because I am absolutely a fan for that long. even if RJ rest his soul tried to brush it off as #'pillow friends that faded out'only to get fucking cold feet and put them in their heterosexual weirdass nonrelationships with Gareth and #Thom (and look. I am really fond of show Thom; he still has no business getting up close and personal with Moiraine #unless she and Siuan decide on polyamory; Gareth was such an utter nonentity and isn't in the show I really have nothing to say. with legit #apologies to any Gareth fans subjected to my salty tags b/c I'm sure they exist and your tastes are also valid) #well. if Rafe. as an openly queer creator pulls a queer bait and switch I will lose my shit so spectacularly they'll hear my screaming #during shooting. but moral ambiguity. in and of itself. is not a bad thing! portrayals of how her early childhood trauma complicate her #dynamic with Moiraine when Moiraine lied! to her which she should have known better than to do #feel very inevitable after that intro we got in S1 is all I'm saying

[butterflydm]

WoT Fic Writing Update!

Current status of Voice*: I have an Interlude that I will be posting next week. The next main fic in the series is going to have 16 chapters and will have major book plot spoilers through A Crown of Swords. I am not entirely certain when I'm going to start posting it, but I think early December. I have a bit of writing done on most of the chapters, but I'm probably going to skim the books to refresh my memory on some things, plus doing a reread of Voice to keep my changes in mind.

(*since I do have some new followers: voice in the back of my head started as my 'put Mat in the polycule' fix-it story that bridges out of wot 1x6 but is essentially an AU for the entire book series now; there are currently 8 main fics in the series and several 'interludes' that focus in on a particular moment)

I also have two multi-chapter fics I've been working on recently.

1. show-verse Cauthor fic that is going to use my recent Rand/'Selene' mini-series as backstory. Looks like it will end up being 5 chapters, 2 of which are fully written and the remaining 3 are partially written. It will contain spoilers for most of s2 of the show.

2. the "Rand takes Ebou Dar" story (Cauthor & Matavirandlayne), fic idea suggested by @essie007 -- this is going to have 9 chapters, 4 of which are fully written, and another 2 are partially written.

I also have a post s2 one-shot that is basically just exploring the potential new group dynamics through the lens of Elayne. Not sure how long it'll be.

On the meta front, I'm planning on doing some metas on each character's journey this season and how that journey ties into the various themes that we've focused on:

We had a couple of main themes that touched pretty much everyone and then several subthemes that impacted a handful of characters each. I'm kinda planning to rewatch each 'storyline' on its own to examine how each theme is impacted so that would be:

Moiraine & Lan

Egwene & Nynaeve

Rand

Mat

Perrin

Ishamael & Lanfear

The themes I'm looking into exploring are:

control (both over yourself and the control others exert over you)

imprisonment & manipulation

isolation=vulnerability; togetherness=strength

betrayal

Every single one of the main plotlines featured elements from those themes, though some were more intense than others.

Some of the subthemes are:

fulfillment of prophecy (and how others try to manufacture it)

what being seen as "special" can mean and the effects it has

the monster within

I make no promises about how much of this I will get done. But I have rewatched the finale twice now and am itching to rewatch the season, lol.

#wot fic writing update #fic writing update #wot #wheel of time #wot on prime #wot fanfic update #wot 2x8 spoilers #wot show spoilers #wot book spoilers #the path of daggers

[markantonys]

an installment of “wot meta i think is genius but the fandom has probably already been talking about for 20 years”: i feel like there’s a forsaken that each of the ef5 Could Have Been if they hadn’t chosen the light at every turn. my strongest one is mat and sammael. the sidekicks to rand/lews therin, considered second best to them in every respect, yet while sammael’s jealousy drove him to the shadow, mat doesn’t give a shit about being second best to rand because he has no aspirations for greatness, and dare i say that his friendship with rand is more important to him than any ambitions for power. lanfear and melindhra both try to goad mat about being in rand’s shadow and he’s like “yeah i am, what about it?” he just doesn’t care.

egwene i think would be the foil for lanfear. both incredibly powerful and intelligent and ambitious, both the first loves of rand/lews therin, but egwene had no problem letting rand go whereas lanfear was consumed by jealousy and possessiveness, and egwene’s ambition is driven by wanting to reach her full potential and to learn for knowledge’s sake and to leave a positive mark on the world, while lanfear’s was driven by the desire for accolades and prestige.

nynaeve i would go semirhage since they’re both amazingly talented healers, but nynaeve’s affinity for healing comes from her desire to fix things and help people, whereas semirhage only cared about pushing the bounds of knowledge and her own talents regardless of her patients’ wellbeing.

perrin, no clue, and i’m not sure if rand has a Forsaken Foil or if he’s only the lews therin of the situation. will keep you posted if i think of more ideas for them (i’m only on COT so no spoilers beyond that please!)

#i'm sure this is already widely agreed upon and discussed in the fandom fjkgh #it's impossible to contribute much in the way of New Insights in such an old fandom #i am a little child showing you guys my amazing drawing and you're my parents patting me on the head and telling me i did a great job #wot #the wheel of time #wot book spoilers #mat cauthon #sammael #egwene al'vere #lanfear #nynaeve al'meara #semirhage

[clearancecreedwatersurvival]

On the one hand, s2’s beginning episodes are noticeably better than early s1 and though they’ve made changes they are still trying to accomplish the same character beats over a more streamlined narrative. And many of the changes are working very well, in particular Min and Mat teaming up is SO good. And once again every scene with the aes sedai rules the dedication to getting all these extremely powerful women right shines through. Liandrin and Alanna in particular were great. AND they improved the channeling stuff significantly the differentiation of elements and detail about weaving is great. And everything about Nynaeve’s arc was has been good the acceptance trials hit really hard. Selene is ~Perfect~

On the other hand THEY DROPPED THE INTRO which was a terrible choice the intro was perfect it emphasized the weaving of the pattern and the larger meta themes about fate in this universe and the ‘fabric’ of spacetime and such. And every time Perrin brings up Laila it feels so shoehorned in (imagining a world where they had kept the change that it was his smith master who died in the trolloc attack instead of inventing a dead wife. Or just kept the original drama of him not coping the first time he has to kill another human).

Also I’m never shutting up about this I can’t believe they killed Uno. Was not expecting it at all. Fully until that spike pierced his skull I was convinced something was gonna happen. I guess it does emphasize that what they’re doing with the adaptation is like, this is a different turning of the wheel, a version of reality not quite the one in the books, but oh my god. He’s not a main character but he is a constant presence in the entire book series. Feels like a bit of a warning that the changes to the story will result in a different set of characters surviving. Way to up the stakes and make the seanchan more of a threat.

Also dear god. Can we please get some light in the night scenes. Let me see the action. Please I am begging.

#rip uno the foul mouthed bastard #he will be missed #wot #wot on prime #wheel of time #wot show #wot show spoilers #caitie speaks

[jaqobis]

okay i’ll do a PROPER THOUGHTS POST about AMOL and total series thoughts at some point — everything is still sinking in! — but let’s do a fave characters ranking first. i am 500% sure i’ve forgotten someone i really care about, narrowing down to top 10 was hard lksmdfls

in approximate order!

1. egwene al’vere, my girl, my love, the light of my life! i may never love another character as much as i love her. amyrlin of my heaRT. every time i try to go into more detail about my love i just descend into incoherent babbling so we’ll just have to wait till my inevitable 92304 word metas about her arc slkdfjs

2. rand al’thor, this was SUCH a close second. i love rand and egwene about equally tbh, but she inches out juuuuust that little bit. that said: my boy!! my sad little doomed chosen one trying his best and sometimes committing war crimes along the way!

3. elayne trakand, INCREDIBLY SATISFYING STORYLINE, wonderful mad scientist queen, love every minute around her. huge chaotic bi energy. politicking GENIUS.

4. nynaeve al’meara, angriest healer of my heart!!! wish she had more to do in the back half of the series but every moment she’s on screen is a banger.

5. mat cauthon, gently puts a hand over his post-winter’s heart material. fantastic gambler with a heart of gold and too many knives, hilarious lad, love how badly he wanted to be in any other novel series than this one.

6. aviendha, LOVE HER! love her sense of honor, love her romances with rand and elayne, love how much she grows and learns from her experiences.

7. moiraine damodred, MEAN MAGIC MOM!!!! thrower of incredible shade. sets up the MOST dramatic venue for her “death.” did not ask for all this child-wrangling but the wheel weaves as the wheel wills. what an icon.

8. verin mathwin, RESPONSIBLE FOR THE MOST BALLER REVEAL IN THIS ENTIRE SERIES and that is NO SMALL FEAT. when this woman commits she coMMITS. incredible show-stopping amazing.

9. gawyn trakand, look. look. i’m care him. he is trying his best and his best sucks so much sdklfsjls MORE SERIOUSLY i feel like some of his more frustrating issues are reflective to broader issues around the writing in the last few books of the series and i can’t blame him, specifically, for them. he has some really swoony moments with egwene and i’m too much of an arthuriana nerd to NOT be compelled by an ill-made knight

10. loial, son of arent son of halan. I MEAN, NATURALLY!!!!! i’m so pleased he gets to write his bOOK, i hope he gets some nice restful chill time at the stedding after all this time away.

#wheel of time read #wot book spoilers #wheel of time #words

[liptonrm]

The summer got away from me and then I went camping for a couple days and now WoT season two is only, like, a day away! And I've still got 3 more episodes to rewatch!

Anyway, time to pop some bottles because it's episode six and Moiraine x Siuan is about to go canon.

Watching Siuan being forced to leave her father is heartbreaking.

There was an interesting meta about patriarchy and patriarchal violence in the Wheel of Time books and, while so many leaders are world leaders are women and the Aes Sedai, the most powerful people in that world, are all women, there's still a bunch of in-world gendered stereotypes and violence that seem to stem more from our world's sensibilities than that world's. Which, yes, I'm sure a bunch of it did come down to some of RJ's unconscious biases.

BUT the show is doing an interesting job of highlighting the push-pull of power and trust. In the last episode we had Liandrin talking about how little girls are still hurt, even though the Aes Sedai exist, like one doesn't negate the other. Also in that episode we had the Whitecloaks, through Eamon Valda, talking about how no one with that amount of power can be trusted, regardless of whether the power is corrupted or not.

Now we see tiny little Siuan being sent away, not because her father doesn't love and trust her, but because the people around her don't. If she's going to live, she has to leave. Which is just heartbreaking. No wonder so many Aes Sedai only trust their sisters in Saidar.

Practicing knots and practicing weaves. Basically the same thing, really.

He knows he'll never see his daughter again.

You ever think about how lucky we are that Rosamund Pike decided to champion this series? Because I do, every time I watch.

I want to think the costumers, productions designers, and VFX artists who made Tar Valon look so fucking cool.

Women in the Tower Guard is an excellent touch. Four for you, R2J2.

They're giving so much texture and depth to Logain. I love to see it.

Aaah, Liandrin grandstanding, throwing Moiraine under the bus. This scene is an excellent way to introduce Tower politics.

The Hall did not consent to be apart of Siuan and Moiraine's roleplay.

Though Liandrin's definitely enjoying it.

Oh man, it's the tea shop. Where's the meme, woman drinking tea, thinking about getting railed by Siuan Sanche.

Bless Rand's heart.

I'm really curious to see what the angle's gonna be re: Mat and the dagger in season two.

Moiraine really doesn't have the patience for Tower politics. I do not blame her.

Omg, I didn't remember that Maigan mentioned travelling to investigate the Seanchan. That's, ummmm, not a great idea.

Egwene is vicious and righteous. Perfection.

Plots within plots. Schemes within schemes.

Omg the way Moiraine smiles with Lan says "Giver her my love." She's so excited to see Siuan. 🥹🥰

I LOVE THEM SO MUCH. 🍾🍾🎉

The both started wearing whte and now Siuan is wearing Tairen paisley and Moiraine is in a matching wrap. Excellent touch.

🐡

Nynaeve not bowing and the way Egwene looks at her lololol.

The way that Nynaeve is terrified and barely holding it together and Egwene is ready to fight the world. Everyone making this show understood the assignment.

What color is the stone in Siuan's ring? It wasn't blue, but I couldn't tell what color it was. Maybe gold?

Seriously, the Hall did not consent to your roleplay.

The way their fingers touch while Moriaine swears the oath. 😢😭

And the way Moiraine changes the oath. 1) She so dramatic I love her. 2) So smart to swear to Siuan specifically. 3) They're definitely married now.

They're all so happy to see each other! My babies.

I know that Mat doesn't go with them because reasons but, you know, I really don't blame him. Just cut loose from unspeakable horror to venture back into it? Yeah, hard pass.

I do wonder how Mat's story in the finale would've gone, as originally planned.

I do really like that Egwene is the first of the EF5 to step into the Ways. She is so brave.

#wheel of time #wot rewatch #wot book spoilers #will i finish the last two before three am on friday? here's hoping

[toastandjamie]

Been thinking about Mat Cauthon again, not an abnormal occurrence, but here’s an essay about him.

I have to cut this up because of the word limit, so here’s part 1

Part 1: How To Traumatize Your Comedic Relief

So like, Mat’s paranoia and trust issues stem entirely from the events of the first book regarding the Shadar Logoth dagger. But like- I wanna talk meta about Mat’s story and the concepts of loss of innocence, the evils of man, and fear of being powerless and how that relates to his character arc and relationships in the story. So let’s put aside the lore explanation of “evil dagger doing evil dagger things”

So when we first meet not just Mat, but all three Ta’veren boys there’s this element of childlike innocence to them. Despite the fact that all three are eighteen at the start of the series, Emmonds Field is so isolated, safe and peaceful that the boys are actively noted as being exceptionally naive to the outside world. They’re practically toddlers being left alone in a grocery store when they get separated from the actual experienced adults. This is a feature not a bug mind you, when it comes to having protagonists to introduce a world to an audience with. Not to mention that sets up all of the Emmonds Fields kids(this is specifically barring Nynaeve) to have a “Loss of Innocence” character arc, and they all do, but what’s interesting is how each character handles this loss and how long it takes for them to accept this reality. Mat is actually the first of them to really experience the effects of this loss of innocence, due to previously mentioned dagger problems, but let’s ignore the curse and talk about what exactly happened in Shadar Logoth that shook Mat’s worldview so badly. Mat does not start the story as the cynical and sarcastic character we all know and love, he’s introduced to us as being genuinely kindhearted and trusting, like I know it’s easy to forget given EVERYTHING Mat does in the later books, but of the three Ta’veren boys he’s the one who trusts Morraine the most in the beginning. He doesn’t question her motives nor does he seem to have any innate hostility towards her being Aes Sedai like Rand does(though his hostility stems from a place of jealousy and protectiveness of Egwene rather than genuine prejudice). The same goes for Thom as well, Mat doesn’t know anything about this person but he trusts these seemingly well intentioned adults intrinsically. The only person Mat seems to even have the slightest hesitation about is Lan and that’s solely because he’s aloof and doesn’t show much emotion, something that Mat finds extremely off-putting as the type of person who always has Big Feelings, and takes a lot of self esteem in his ability to make others laugh. This makes sense, because at this point they’ve not encountered any darkfriends(that they knew of) so currently the only Evil they encountered has been literal shadowspawn monsters. The Emmonds Field kids have never met a person who had genuinely bad intentions, I’ll-tempered like Cenn Buie, or a bit disreputable like the Coplins and Congars but even these people were at their cores Good People. So why WOULD they distrust these people who say they have their best interests at heart. That’s when we get to Shadar Logoth, and Mat as the ADHD icon he is, immediately gets bored and wants to explore the abandoned city. Rand and Perrin, as the two more mature ones both rightfully call this a bad idea since they were told NOT to go exploring by themselves, but Mat only heard “Trolloks can’t come in here so it’s safe” and nothing else so he decides to go anyways. Rand and Perrin tag along mostly to make sure Mat doesn’t get hurt. And who do they meet except the most suspicious man ever who lures them into his white van- I mean treasure room with the promise of candy-I mean treasure. These boys have never heard of stranger danger in there lives and automatically trust this random man who lurks in alleyways. And wouldn’t you know it, but this guy was not trustworthy at all and tries to kill them resulting in the group getting separated.

Here’s the thing, this is the first time in Mat’s life that he’s ever experienced true man made evil. This wasn’t the dark ones doing, Mordreth was just a guy who had genuinely malicious intentions and took advantage of Mat and his friends. This alone is enough to make him cautious but then throughout their entire road trip to Camlyn they are constantly ambushed by dark friends, in fact after Whitebridge they don’t get any direct encounters with Shadowspawn, they see a few myrrdraal hunting them but they avoid them pretty easily, it’s the People that consistently hurt them; and they are EVERYWHERE. Darkfriends are practically popping up at every street corner and they could be literally anyone. Mat tells Rand at one point that he feels like everyone is out to get them and Rand assures him that not everyone is a darkfriend, but at the same time, I can SEE why Mat would come to that conclusion. I mean is it really paranoia if they actually are out to get you? It wasn’t even just darkfriends, which makes it’s objectively worse, throughout their road-trip May and Rand are constantly met with people who are selfish, greedy, rude and sometimes even outright cruel and a lot of them weren’t darkfriends. They interact with Whitecloaks who are supposed to be righteous and good but are just bullies in shiny armor and carrying around swords. They interact with merchants on the road who take active pleasure in nearly taking out Rand’s eye with whip because the two of them walked a little too close to a cart. An innkeeper who purposefully locked them in a small storage closet so that he could rob them in the middle of the night. Rand remains optimistic but by the time they reach Camlyn Mat had become completely pessimistic and despondent. He didn’t trust anyone, he believed wholeheartedly that everyone wanted to hurt him, everyone except of course Rand.

#wheel of time #mat cauthon #wheel of time spoilers #wot book spoilers #wot meta #mat’s trust issues: an essay

[readerbell]

The result is that the perfect knight who is emotionally crippled and chronically depressed due to a geas laid on him at birth is given just the medicine he needs by a young witch with a chip on her shoulder; in another, a well-educated warrior widens the horizons of a powerful small-town witch to encompass a national and then universal world view, and she rises to heal and protect the world. Balance. And change. Two major themes of the series.

This article on Lan & Nynaeve’s character parallels might just be one of the best metas I’ve ever read. So much of it makes me squeal. I can’t recommend it enough.

Nynaeve

Nynaeve is associated with objects of power that fix world issues. She’s the only character who uses the three most important objects of power: the Bowl of the Winds, the Choedan Kal & Callandor to heal the world.

Just as the Lady of the Lake taught Lancelot about courtly love, Nynaeve teaches Lan (Lord of the Thousand Lakes) the same. 🥹

Like Hippocrates, “Nynaeve moved around the nations, not waiting in the White Tower for people to come to her. She had a huge influence in redeveloping Aes Sedai Healing knowledge and skills, even surpassing AOL Healers by restoring stilled channellers’ ability to channel—giving them back their lives, according to Siuan.”

Parallels between Nynaeve & Semirhage (I’ll always be bitter we didn’t get a heal-off between them, though I’ll take Nynaeve frustrating the hell out of Graendal). “Nynaeve personifies the Hippocratic Oath, doing her utmost to Heal people and protect them, while her dark opposite, Semirhage represents those physicians who violate their Hippocratic Oaths that they should have followed.”

There are a number of other mythological parallels to her character - so many in fact!

Lan

The article covers many of Lan’s parallels with Lancelot, including the fact that both were held by women against their will. They also both rescue the women they love from precarious situations. #Mashiara!

He also shares parallels with quite a few (military) mythological figures.

http://13depository.blogspot.com/2022/07/character-parallels-nynaeve-and-lan.html

#wheel of time #wot book spoilers #the wheel of time #nynaeve al’meara #lan mandragoran #I love them so much

[onaperduamedee]

Back when I would obsessively rewatch my favourite scenes after each episode, this barely audible line struck me as particularly portentous. At the time, I hadn't dived into the books yet, and hearing these words, even half off-screen, from Nynaeve of all people, had my mind spinning.

Nynaeve is portrayed as a leader from the start, not only holding spiritual power during Egwene's ceremony and the pools' cleaning rituals, but also executive power as she meets the strangers in town asking for their names, hand on her dagger. Her understanding of leadership isn't theoretical: as Widsom, being in a position of power has been a reality for years now.

From what we glimpse in the show, much of Nynaeve's power and place within the Two Rivers stems from traditions and enforcing them: being Wisdom, carrying the braid, performing the rituals, cleaning the pools, protecting the town from strangers… An outsider who came to the Two Rivers as a baby, Nynaeve believes integration through respect of traditions is crucial: to her and beyond her love for her community, protecting the Two Rivers' way of life is key to maintaining her status and safety.

This is why, despite her understanding of conformity, her obvious dig at the White Tower and indirectly Siuan displays a fundamental misunderstanding of power within the White Tower: Siuan in all her extravagance embodies just another enforcement of traditions. We are shown, from the beginning of episode 6 to her tête-à-tête with Moiraine, that Siuan is far from removed from reality. Although living in a literal ivory tower, she is no fool, unable to lead and rule without the symbols of her power. Yet, as shown in the Hall, her power and position within her community, like Nynaeve's, is extremely dependent on enforcing traditions and performing conformity.

The Tower, the Hall, the stole… Like Nynaeve's braid, the pools, the Two Rivers, these are attributes of power that do not hold power but allow Nynaeve and Siuan to follow on from the legacy of other Wisdoms and Amyrlins before them. It means safety in their respective community, while unbeknownst to all, both Nynaeve and Siuan will disrupt their order: Nynaeve is Ta'veren and Siuan has hunted the apocalypse for twenty years. Ruling from a throne or a moss-covered cliff requires equal dexterity – Nynaeve just hasn't realized it yet and has fallen for the same trick she's been herself using for years.

Like all our heroes, she's on a journey here.

Part of Nynaeve's condemnation of the Tower still shows how sheltered she has been: her world has always been reduced to the Two Rivers. Meeting the Aes Sedai and Lan forces her to confront people and nations who think and behave differently from her. The differences at the beginning are seen as threats, soon to be met with curiosity as she exchanges more with Lan and the other warders.

Even her opening to Lan during the prayer scene in episode 4 comes from a place of tradition, and here for the first time curiosity for a culture different from hers: Nynaeve believes in traditions and rituals, and seeing Lan performs a prayer for his people is familiar to her. What is truly incredible about the writing in this scene is that, because Nynaeve is deeply respectful of customs, she thanks Lan by sharing with him part of her culture.

Turns out Lan is familiar with this part of her history and offers to lift a veil for Nynaeve. Perhaps part of Nynaeve's emotional reaction after his translation, beyond the romantic thread, comes from an overwhelming realization that they are all connected. Much like Moiraine's recollection of the battle of Manetheren for the Emond's Field four, Lan's explanation connects Nynaeve's story to the world around her, beyond the Two Rivers: the Two Rivers is part of Andor, of the world, whether they want it or not.

This comes back to Siuan's words about consequences and the role we play. It would be so easy to have no responsibilities to the people who are not immediately close to us, and it is a burden to shoulder that task. But there is also joy in those responsibilities: connections. To Lan first, and with sincere fondness, but I have no doubt that Nynaeve will meet more people and very much come to embrace her responsibilities toward strangers, toward the world. Which is what leading is about, just as much as looking after the threads of traditions in a community.

Perhaps Nynaeve will even connect with leaders who should not call themselves leaders if they rule from lavish halls of ivory white.

#the wheel of time #wot meta #wot on prime #nynaeve al'meara #siuan sanche #like a raging sun #clever as a pike #meta #ramblings #there's also a lot to say about these lines in relation to someone's arc but this is meant to remain spoiler-free #I am not kidding I did rewind this part a few times to be sure she said what she said #I am so excited to get more of them together #THEY ARE SO GOOD #also woohoo meta is back on the menu because my brain has returned to being mostly all WoT #Remblai