#political lesbianism

[spaceysoupy]

So apparently it’s that time of year again where I have to post about this.

On lesbianism, white queerness, and 2S identity

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I am a two-spirit. My identity is specific to my Tribe and Clan, and even more specific to my family. I am not a man, I am not a woman, and I am not nonbinary; I am not defined by what I am not.

I am a two-spirit and I am a lesbian. That's not debatable.

But I am not a non-man.

There's an idea of two-spirits that we are just the ethnic version of non-binary

We're not. The reason you're so comfortable calling us nonbinary is because your idea of queerness is centered around the binary&what you are not: you're not cishet, you're not the oppressor, etc

White queers like to speak about 2S identities constantly as if we are monolith. "It's just a gender" "it's not a gender"

"they're not trans" "they're not queer" "they don't belong here"

The community tries to decide for the individual and that's so weird to me.

So much of white queerness is inherently about exclusion.

You need strict labels to exclude the people you fear. You write your definitions around your fear of intruders and by consequence you exclude the people that need your support the most.

You need people to "prove" they are queer before you let them in. You're like a fortress and you let vulnerable people drown in the moat; ignoring that the real oppressors don't need to be a Trojan horse to do damage, ignoring they are actively burning down the castle.

It's very sad to me, because it's ultimately tearing the community apart even further.

I've never felt very welcome in white lesbian circles and they've never understood my experience of gender, but it's gotten worse in the past 5 or so years.

As TERFs start to revive gold star lesbianism and center hatred of men as their definition of lesbianism, you start to get these younger lesbians that don't know history that start to parrot the rhetoric. First it's "non-men loving non-men" then it's "you're too close to Man™"

For many two-spirit lesbians like myself, this is very concerning. White lesbians are historically not the ones targeted by radfems.

Now we've gotten to the point that there are people denying that lesbian is an spec (multispec) identity while including (white) nonbinary people

White nonbinary people (usually AFAB nonbinary people) are seen as woman lite and are welcome in white lesbian spaces while queer Indigenous people are considered dangerous because white lesbians can't understand their gender.

When did understanding become a requirement?

We're getting very dangerously close to "lesbianism is ONLY attraction to women" and very close to "lesbianism is only attraction to *a very specific type of (white) woman*" and I really need young white lesbians to read about political lesbianism so they can see this

I don't want to hear "not all lesbians" or "well then they aren't welcome" because every time this rhetoric goes unchallenged you are actively welcoming these people to continue it and make it more and more extreme. Yes, even the kind that seems to have nothing to do with racism

Almost all of your exclusionary rhetoric is based on the racist ideas of political lesbianism and I do not know why you all cannot see that they want to move goalposts. It wasn't just bi lesbians, it wasn't just he/him lesbians, it wasn't just nonbinary lesbians. It's a tactic.

It really feels like young lesbians are not only letting us go backwards, but encouraging it. And that's thanks in part to the historical racism of political lesbianism, but many of these people ARE old enough to think critically and talk to people who've been through this.

So far I've seen this in younger lesbian spaces; the ones with older generations (the ones that don't welcome TERFs) have been pretty welcoming even if not totally understanding, because they at least recognize that you don't need to understand someone's experience to validate it.

But I'm really concerned for the young Indigenous lesbians who don't feel comfortable around older people and are going to these younger lesbian spaces only to be indoctrinated with thinly veiled TERF rhetoric. It makes me very concerned for our spaces as well.

So I'll say again

I am not a non-man and I am not a non-woman. I'm not defined by what I am not. I do not ascribe to your binary-centric definitions of queerness. I experience queer attraction to women. I'm a lesbian. You do not get to use community to decide my individuality.

Thread by ~Alitsanosga

Pronouns: hi'a/vsgina/utseli/uwasa

#two spirit #two-spirit #2slgbtqia+ #2 spirit #lesbian #white queers #white queerness #racism #colonialism #political lesbianism #inclusion is survival #indigeneity #indigenous rights

[good-night-my-sweet-prince]

hear me out

william shakespeare invented political lesbianism with "sigh no more" from much ado about nothing

yes i CAN elaborate

#shakespeare #william shakespeare #willy shakes #much ado about nothing #much ado #sigh no more #political lesbianism #queer #queer literature #lgbtqia #literature #queer lit #lgbtq literature

[sugarsprinkles]

I made a comic about political lesbianism and lesbian politics for my final project in a Communication and Sexuality class :-)

#My professor lets me draw my furry ocs. Does yours. #xenon art #lesbian #lesbian history #political lesbianism

[knightingael]

The funniest thing about political "lesbians" on this site is that they're the ones who get soooo riled up about identity politics and how men can't just identify into being women. But then they're going to transition from straight or bisexual women into lesbians? lol

Go on about how you can't just identify into a marginalized group and then try to speak over the experiences of ACTUAL members of that group. And sure, go on about how lesbianism isn't an inherent trait and actually sexuality is sooo fluid. And now replace the word sexuality with sex and see how much you sound like the people you hate so much.

#you're not lesbians and you never will be #cry about it #prompted by an argument with a polilez who keeps insisting to me that lesbian sex isn't real sex #ya'll need to sit the fuck down #political lesbianism #radical feminism #radfem #radfem critical

[haggishlyhagging]

It is time we faced up to the fact that men hate us. We challenge them utterly through our sexuality; they will fight to keep us heterosexual and under their thumbs and control, if they feel that they have lost this they will turn on us with all their venom—and their power is mighty. As lesbians we have gained so little. Is it any wonder that with the might of their power against us we shake with fear and thus try to drown it out in other ways. To escape from it. Or—if we value it, try to recreate it in ourselves.

As lesbians our oppression is 'double' because we have no male protectors or individual policemen to hedge us against the wrath of male power and domination. Once it is known that we do not allow men to own our bodies sexually, they will make all attempts to kick us into submission. Because we present to them, in some part, the freedom that other women may obtain from them. We stand out because we show that it is possible to live autonomously, on a personal level. without men. They cannot bear this. They will retaliate to keep other women from doing so. If they have no power over women then they are powerless. We render them impotent, this realisation for men is their real fear of women.

I wanted to write about separatism, which is something that all lesbians participate in to different degrees (here I am referring to lesbian feminists). It is necessary in our struggle to take away from men as much time and space and energy as possible. Not only because we need an autonomous Women's Liberation Liberation Movement but because that time and space and energy is ours, and men would all too willingly steal it from us in any way possible. Separatism is vital to our existence. It is not always possible for us to be totally separatist but we need to strive towards total separatism because it is our strongest tactic against them. Some women feel that hating men is. I agree that women get much strength from hating men and getting in touch with the anger that this generates. I need to feel my hatred at least once every day. But taking time and energy away from them is even stronger. It means we have more control over ourselves and our own lives—to be able to decide which are the ways we want to work most effectively. They simply cannot stand this. It drives them literally crazy not to get a reaction from us. Our reactions to them give them credulity and power.

-Love Your Enemy? The Debate between Heterosexual Feminism and Political Lesbianism

#love your enemy #political lesbianism #female separatism #female rage #ignore men #center women

[senseofmonachopsis]

There's nothing wrong with being bisexual

There is something wrong with being bisexual and calling yourself a lesbian.

There is something wrong with subscribing to an ideology that theorizes that women can choose to become lesbians as a form of activism. And claims that possesing and acting on heterosexual attraction is merely a symptom of patriarchal brainwashing, so someway somehow lesbians consent to sex with males.

#text #feminist critical #political lesbianism #conpulsory heterosexuality

[djuvlipen]

the reason 'political lesbianism' is lesbophobic is because it posits lesbianism as a culture rather than a natural phenomenon. Political lesbian theorists define lesbianism as the choice to prioritize women over men, to espouse feminist theory and reject the nuclear family. That is the idea being expressed by Adrienne Rich in her text about "compulsory heterosexuality", rehashed by Mary Daly in Ob/Gyn, concentrated in the expression "woman-identified woman" used in many 2nd wave writings.

Political lesbianism turns female homosexuality into an aesthetic anyone can buy. If you define lesbianism as a culture, then anyone is free to identify in and out of it. It erases the actual meaning of female homosexuality and narrows the wide array of opinions female homosexuals can hold: some actual lesbians are not feminist, some actual lesbians are not revolutionary and are even right wing, some actual lesbians still have friendships with men and don't prioritize women; but at the end of the day, they are still lesbians for being homosexual females, they still face lesbophobia and their rights as lesbians still should be defended and recognized. Political lesbianism rewrites lesbian history to fit in all the women who have been seen as sexually deviant for whatever reason: because they were single, because they had female friends, because they were into kinks; a position defended by Judith M. Bennett (historian who wrote influential texts on women's history and gender studies) n her article 'Lesbian-Like'.

In practice, political lesbianism erases actual lesbians by making you think historical female figures were homosexuals when, in fact, they had happy relationships with men. It alienates lesbians from our history by making it look as though all the 'lesbians' that came before us loved men and were attracted to men.

Political lesbianism takes all the lesbophobic ideas held by straight and bi leftists and feminists: lesbianism as culture instead of nature, lesbianism as an aesthetic, as an identity to identify in/out, erasure of lesbian history and figures. It takes these ideas and legitimizes them by giving them the appearance of 'theory'. That's why political feminism has remained popular in both radical feminist spheres and transactivist spheres, two movements that are very alike in the way they treat lesbians as though we could ever be into men

#political lesbianism #anti political lesbianism #lesbophobia #radical feminism

[the-rainbow-lesbian]

I would like everyone to take a look at this video, trigger warning for assault on an autistic lesbian, it was disturbing to watch. I personally never paid much attention to Get the L Out, I was vaguely aware of them specially when I had a twitter account, I liked the work they were doing with Lesbian Me Too but I couldn’t personally bring myself to watch their content because the co-founder of the group Angela Wild said in a video that she “chose” lesbianism and that made me uneasy. When I saw the video I thought this is absolutely a case of ableism but when I read the document I was even more horrified, not only did they assault Kat who is a vulnerable adult who did nothing to warrant this cruel treatment but Get the L Out and FiLiA have a repeated pattern of political lesbians facilitating harassment, abuse, assault and ostracization on lesbians. here is the document in question which details the accounts of multiple women and talks about the lawsuit. Please pay attention to what has happened, keep yourself safe if you are in the UK and inform other women specially the lesbians you know. This is why it’s extremely dangerous to allow political lesbians to run a supposed lesbian community.

#get the l out #filia charity #get the l out uk #political lesbians #political lesbianism #polilez #lesbophobia #radfems please interact #Youtube

[lostryu]

i don’t get it. how do you think a bi lesbian is the same as a political lesbian?

Short answer is that both co-opt the term lesbian in an effort to distance themselves from their romantic and/or sexual attraction to men. It’s a desperate attempt to seem more progressive and/or feminist. It’s quite silly that in that effort to be more progressive they’re both alienating and demeaning lesbians and actual feminists.

It should be made clear that neither are actual lesbians, and instead are creating a bizarre and gross caricature of what lesbianism actually is. Both should be avoided entirely.

#ask #anon #‘bi lesbian’ #political lesbianism #lesbophobia #i have to laugh

[feral-radfem]

Political lesbian this, political lesbian that. Tell me how male homosexuality is a political move for super woke men, then you can talk to me about how female homosexuality isn't actually real but rather a political move. No really, because it isn't new that people don't believe that women can have innate sexual desires towards one sex or another (or both) that males can. That our sexualities are somehow always more affected by our environment than males are.

The personal is political was never meant to be interpreted as being able to identify into any demographic you feel politically aligned with. I do believe that's what most of our issue is with the whole transgender thing, is it not? The idea that you can identify into groups you fundamentally do not fit the definition of because you believe it is more politically pure, or whatever propaganda the oppressor class you belong to is currently pushing about that minority.

I don't care if you are genuinely a lesbian or not, pushing that being a lesbian is a choice that can be affected by our environment or through social pressures, is homophobic. We do not belong to a system of thought that believes being a part of a demographic means you cannot hurt that demographic of people. That makes no sense. If that was the case class traitors would be impossible. Being a class traitor and throwing other members of your minority group under the bus, may cause people to question whether or not you're actually a member of that minority group because this is the internet and people have the capability of lying. That does not make lesbianism an ideology, it means we don't believe you, as an individual.

Our orientations are proven not to be effected by social conditioning, otherwise conversion therapy would work, and it doesn't. The fact that people in radblr still run with comphet knowing it came from a political lesbian and then are surprised there's so many political lesbians on radblr is amazing to me. Of course we are full of political lesbians, almost every "lesbian safe space" on the internet pushes that with enough societal pressure homosexual women will fuck men. Which is false. I'm also not going to pretend like people can't understand whether or not they're sexually attracted to women unless it's introduced to them through porn or social media. That's not how sexuality works. This was the hell I was willing to die in in the old feminist circles and in tra circles, I will continue to die on the hill radfem circles.

And I'm sorry, but this does circle back to the gold star lesbian thing. There would be far less gold star lesbians who felt the need to aggressively defend the boundaries of our community if there wasn't so many women pretending to be lesbians and speaking over us. We wouldn't have to scrutinize every woman's sexual history and her attraction to fictional characters or TV show characters, if women who were not lesbians didn't constantly try to encroach on our spaces. If you are angry about the hypervigilance in the lesbian community but preach either the old school homophobia or this new wave of bisexual flavored homophobia, you are the reason it is there in the first place. Hello, meet the consequences of your own actions.

[TL/DR] You are only a lesbian if you are a female homosexual. Any sexual attraction towards males disqualifies you from this category, whether you act on that attraction or not. There's nothing more to it than that. Female homosexuality is normal, innate, and absolutely natural. You are only materially a lesbian if you are a female homosexual, being a febfem or sexually celibate does not make you a homosexual. Sit down, shut up, and stay in your fucking place.

Thank you. :)

#lily responds #radical feminism #radfems please touch #radical feminists please touch #terfs please interact #radical feminist #radfem lesbian #polilez #political lesbianism

[valeriesolanasapologist]

There's a chance the mom is gay (maybe bi?), but this isn't a new opinion I've never heard voiced by completely straight women before. Just like you can't "become straight", you can't "become gay". I'm sure if you could, a good chunk of women would have already done that.

(It's also interesting that the takeaway in these kinds of conversations is that the woman should embrace her supposed "QuEeRnEsS", and not consider why seemingly 100% straight women have pretty much the same complaints about men and why those complaints might be valid)

#radical feminism #radfem #lesbians #comphet #gay #sexuality #political lesbianism

[radi-cali]

Men know their penises are weapons. They are capable of penetrating somebody they hate. Being aroused by hatred and pain. Why then do women consider intercourse as a loving act? I don't believe men can love with their penis involved. Men are selfish creatures, using your body as their personal toy. They don't care how it feels for you.

Look at how many men have r*ped a woman they planned to kill. Many sons who kill their mothers do this. Do you still believe a man can love with this weapon? That intercourse can ever be safe?

#radical feminism #radical #radfem #radfems do touch #radfems do interact #radblr #radical feminist #6b4t #anti men #political lesbianism #polilez #lesbian feminism #separatism #female separatism

[makiruz]

No, but back to lesbians blaming bi women for men harassing lesbians; like it's so gross, because it also implies that it's okay for women who are attracted to men to be harassed because they're potentially attracted to them. Like, if a woman says she's not interested you respect that, you don't assume she's playing hard to get and keep pushing; it doesn't matter if she's straight, bi or lesbian, if she says no, it means no

And like those biphobic lesbians who are like "men hit on lesbians because bisexual women exist and they think they can turn them"; friend, even if that was a thing it'd still be wrong for men to hit on women who aren't into them

#rants #biphobia #political lesbianism #harassment #lesbians

[dyke-on]

I think like 90% of r@adfems lie about being lesbians

#political lesbianism

[haggishlyhagging]

I understand the anger and frustration which leads women to declare that the only way to end our oppression is to rid the world of men. Even if you agree, I fail to see how we could ever achieve that, or be allowed to. But beyond that, I feel that one of the important things about feminism is the belief that the way in which we try to achieve our ends, influences the type of end we will achieve. Hence our insistence on non-heirarchical structures, our attempts to do away with power imbalances. Genocide is a form of male power-mongering I do not wish us to make use of. I want a non-sexist society, but not at the expense of turning women (who know so much about creating) into destructive "men".

If we envisage a future in which men will take part, men will have to change. Some women believe this will only happen if women withdraw their support totally from men. I don't believe all women are every likely to want to do this. Not all feminists want to do so, now. I'm not sure it would achieve the desired effect if we did. I think we will only achieve the sort of change we want very slowly, and not in any one way - it will be more like millions of little drops of all shapes and sizes gradually wearing away at the stone of the patriarchy.

Meanwhile, we need every ounce of woman energy we can muster. If the women's movement can't be a place for all women, whatever their sexuality. then we have little hope of ever achieving very much.

-Love Your Enemy? The Debate between Heterosexual Feminism and Political Lesbianism

#love your enemy #political lesbianism #heterosexual feminism #female oppression #patriarchy #female separatism

[senseofmonachopsis]

"And at this point, the lesbians that are still supporting this ideology and it’s appropriation of homosexuality because boohoo women are oppressed can eat shit too (they’re fucking cowards guilted by a theory made by a bisexual queer theorist to give bisexual a pass on calling themselves gay, so idgaf. They’re the same fucking idiots that dump on queer theory because it’s cool but also don’t realize (apparently) that their in-group’s tenets are also drawn from post-structuralist theory and queer theory including how sexuality is a social construct. Useful idiots.)"

Feminists always respond to criticism of their theories with but women are oppressed! because they want lesbians who don't follow their ideology to feel guilty, as if not identifying as a feminist and caring about women/girls is mutually exclusive.

#quote #feminist critical #political lesbianism #radfem homophobia